YOUR LIFE'S GOING DOWN THE TOILET!

is Rear Window, the Hitchcock movie. Right, extremely boring, boring, Already we are. We are less than a minute into this podcast, and you're already coming for me, coming in hot with bad takes about Alfred Hitchcock. I was a kid with a d h D. I couldn't muscle my way through most fold movies. Okay, well, I think that's that's a you thing, not a Hitchcock thing. Okay, sure, okay, those have been my favorite movies for years. But I think a third option presented itself somewhat recently, and I

believe it is also your favorite movie. It is not one of my favorite movies. Moonstruck is uncontestedly my favorite movie, point blank period and I have it tattooed on my leg. We'll get into that. Today. We were talking about Moonstruck film starring Share Nicholas Cage, Olympu du Cacus, that one guy from Frasier. Yes, before that, we're going to talk

about what's going on in pop culture. It's the end of the year, so maybe we'll like take a look back on some of our favorite pieces of pop culture from We will toxically around up the best of the year, create hierarchy. Yeah, we might do them against you. We might do some lists. Uh. This is like a Virgin the podcast where we talk about yesterday's pop culture and

give it today's takes. I'm ros damn you, I'm fan Toronto and that's a more a. I'm excited that we're gonna talk about all of this stuff that we really loved from this year and nothing that we didn't like, because we only we want to go forward into two with positivity. That's right. This is our year in review, our queer in review. If you will love that. I guess we should start with TV because I don't know about you. But that's like the thing that I consumed

the most of this year. A lot of my faves where everybody else's faves, like loved Wan Division, loved sex Education. I was there for White Lotus and Hacks like every week. I think if I were to think about what my like standout shows of the year were, Legendary the season two of Legendary was definitely one of them. I watched every episode multiple times. I was so invested in every

single team. For those of you that don't know, Legendary is like a ballroom culture competition reality series on HBO Max that is just some of the best reality TV storytelling I've heard in ages, combined with dance sequences that are mind blowing. Another show, Well, actually, what what were What was one of your favorites from one Division? Definitely, you know, that was a big moment for us. We watched it together every week. It was event television in

a way that we haven't had in a while. It felt like truly everyone was watching it and it was really compelling. It was, like, I think, one of the best things the m c U has done in years. But I guess if I'm thinking of a standout episode

of a show. This one's pretty recent, but the final season of Pen fifteen just came out on Hulu, and there's an episode Yuki that's about one of the character's moms, And it's like one of those episodes of a TV show where it focuses on a character who's not the lead, and it gives this woman who is just like a mother.

There's interior life, and like she meets up with her ex husband and they have this whole day together and it's so like beautiful and sad and sweet, and I just really loved it and it has stuck with me since I watched it. I think I think it's one of the best episodes of TV I've seen in years. I am still making my way through season two. I can't wait to watch that episode. If we're talking about fave episodes of the year, I will reserve my thoughts

for Pose as a whole. However, the Electra episode of Pose and Her Argent Story, which I think is episode three of this last season, is maybe the best episode of the entire show. It was so compelling and beautiful and original and thoughtful. Um. I also really really loved Hunter Schaefer's special episode of Euphoria that came out at the beginning of this year. It's one that, like I talked about in therapy multiple times. It like haunted me.

I thought it was like exquisite writing, um I I. But also something that you and I both enjoyed is the episode of Schmiga Dun that involves both an amazing Ariana Debo's performance and a four and a half minute song by Kristin Chenowith wherein she's like spitting rhymes and she does it all in one take. That was a great episode. I do think though, that the Schmicka Dune episode I liked more was the one with Jane Kurkowski where she does that that number. Well, she's she's standing

on top of the car. I feel like people really slip. I was gonna say slept. People are really slept on Schmiga Dun year. It really did. But if you're not familiar with Schmigadoon and um, it's like basically this rom com sitcom. We're in a couple stumbles upon a town that is basically a Rogers and Hammerstein musical, and it kind of pokes fun at various tropes within musicals. It's super funny, very ingenious. I also wanted to quickly touch on maybe my other favorite TV show of the year.

I really loved this show sort Of, which is an HBO Max original. It's about a trans non binary Pakistani nanny bartender who is at kind of this like pivotal

moment in their life. I'm not gonna lie I I really judged the show before I went into it, like the people that were recommending it to me were, i'll say it siss and to me like quite frankly, I think a lot of like media portrayals of non binary people specifically are are in a post them dot us world are like very manufactured, like they're very for like CIS consumption, And that's kind of what I thought I was getting into because like a lot of like portrayals

of non binary people have this very like self serious, like over rotten nous. You know, it's like triumph porn, but sort of was so disinterested in the question of non binary identity and was really more of like a queer brown like Daria. If I were to give it like a comparison, I love that so much, dead pan and like floating through life like they're high stakes things

that happened. There's a lot of like hijinks, but the show doesn't revel in conversations about pronouns, right, Like for me personally, like if if stories about pronouns are important and impactful for you to consume, that's cool. For me, they are overplayed and they're boring and they're just not

what a general conforming experience is about. And like, I personally don't talk about this a lot, but like my gender has been like an ongoing project since I was a kid, but like most of the last two years have been looking at like where I belong on the trans spectrum and like what my gender means to me. And the promise of the show sort of is like that it's okay to still be evolving and that we should create space for that to be okay. So this

show was like such a must watch. I was talking to my dad the other day and he like we kind of got into something about how like I don't like tell him things, and he was like, oh, and you like never talk to me about your transition anymore, And I was like, I don't talk to anyone about

it because it's not interesting. And I mean, it's great to have an offering that like is presenting the life of someone who is trans and like, of course that's I'm sure that's part of the story and there lived experience, but like the story is about a story exactly. Speaking of representation, get getting into the best of movies of

the year. Finally, bad bitch as are represented in Cruelay Corella was I will okay, my my top three movies of the year were definitely The Green Night, Corrella and Spencer Krella was the first movie I saw back in

theaters after I got vaccinated. It was so good, you know, I think we had been teased for so long about the Emma Stone Corrella movie, which like is, um, someone's made this joke before that like it's it's a movie that sounds like the premise came from a tweet that like Emma Stone should play young Cruella and like it actually happened. Yeah that is actually true. But it was

a really fun movie. She was great in it. The looks were amazing, It had a killer soundtrack of all this like great like sixteas and seventies like rock and Punk. I honestly looked at the year end movies and I cannot really say that I had a faith. I'm not gonna lie. I think that there were a lot of movies that came out where I was like, I love that,

but I had a huge problem with it. I mean, even with like something like in Conto, It's like that would have been a favor of the year, but like the music was really so so not it for me. Maybe shuan Chi was like the most fun I had while watching a movie this year. I also really loved the Tina Turner documentary on HBO Max. But other than that, I mean, movies were a flop for me this year. Should we get into music, Yeah, I'm looking on our notes.

You have a very extensive list of your favorites. I only put one song, which was which was Message in a Bottle by Taylor Swift from Red Taylor's version. This is both like kind of a joke and also serious I Message in a Bottle. I think this is the best song of I honestly don't think it's a joke at all. I think that we should hold space for that to be a legitimate critique of the year in music. I totally agree with that. I'm on on board with it.

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. A lot of my favorite songs of the year where like everybody else's favorites, at least in queer world, like the Gasoline Him remix with Taylor I thought was amazing. We all loved like Please by Jesse Ware Bunny as a Right, or Silk Chiffon by Muna. I really loved the Dealer off of the new Lana del Rey album. Dealer was great Brutal. I don't think that the album was like a hit, but I thought Brutal was, like, so you didn't.

I think Sour is my favorite album, and of all of the songs on it, good for You what Like, I had such a moment with good for You, Like that was one of my most listened to songs this year on Spotify, And I think the pop punk thing she was doing just really resonated um with me. And that is why Sour is my favorite new album of

the year for sure. So I'm at a crossroads with Sour specifically because part of me feels like if it had just been an EP and it had been Brutal, Driver's License, good for You and like Jealousy, jealousy, you know, like those bangers like that absolutely would have been and like quote unquote album or like compilation of the year, but at the same time she had released an EP, it never would have been like this cult sensation. Obviously

it had to be an album. So it's kind of stupid to say, but for me, there were a lot of skips on the album. There's some fill for sure. Yeah, there there's some filler queens, which is why it's not Album of the Year for me, but brutal undeniable. Um. In terms of my number ones for tracks. Um. There is an unreleased Scissor song that she herself put out on SoundCloud called Janie that It's like a minute and

a half and features Scissor's whistle tone. I also loved Billie Eilish is Happier than ever, the title track on that album. If you are not a little eyelash, that song We'll set you Free. Um. And then I also loved Into the Count of It by Ocean Kelly, which is this kind of TikTok sound that remixes a song from the backyard agains that I think it's really amazing, and I think Ocean Kelly, who you know, there's kind of like some Azalea Banks Comparius Ends, but she made

that one division remix. Her stuff is so good. She also did the song um can I get that Vegan Vegan? But she like that was one of the tracks of the year for me. I thought it was so good and so fun. This really was the year of TikTok Sounds that Willow song Mimi at our Spot what. I did listen to that a lot this year because of TikTok. It did come out like a year or two ago, but it was kind of a song of I liked a lot of the stuff she put out this year.

I really liked her song with Avril Levine. It's like, it's only like two minutes long. I need. I need the girls to start making longer songs. It's not I need more than three minutes, babe. Obviously you and I loved Red and Solar Power, Yes and Soil of Pow. I guess like, when I'm thinking about my favorite album of the year, it's like, not even necessarily what did I love the most? Front to back? It's like, what is the album that like really was the vibe of

for me? And it definitely was sour, which I mean like obviously makes me feel feel weird because I'm thirty three in the liberal labricos is eight, um, but I do kind of still give credence to the idea that she's like an industry plant who's making like music for millennials while like pretending that it's for gen Z. She was manufactured in a a gen Z laboratory. Should we

go into books. I read a lot this year because, like I hate to say this, but it kind of is because of TikTok, because I like got really into TikTok this spring, and um like got really into book talk, and so I got a lot of really good book recommendations. And I would say my favorites are not really things that came out this year. Well, definitely, De Transition Baby was one of my favorite books of the year, and it was released this year and I think is an

incredible novel by Tory Peters. But my favorite books that I read this year, Number one was A Certain Hunger by Chelsea G. Summers, which is sort of like a female American psycho. It's like a fake memoir of this food critic who is a serial killer cannibalist. It's super funny the way that she talks about food and sex is like so like beautifully grotesque. Definitely like if you enjoy that like sort of unreliable narrator, like evil protagonist,

I would definitely check that out. And then I don't know if it's my favorite of the year, but kind of like an influential book through through which I became like a book influencer and made several people in my life read something was Red White and Royal Blue by Casey mcquinston. We're giggling because one this this book came out like a few years ago to like it's just like the quintessential like queer young adult, like it's not a young adult novel, but like new adult is like

the categorization of what it is. And it was easily my book of the year, Like I I can't remember the last time I had such a emotional reaction to a book and how I really tore through a book. But if anyone who doesn't know what Red White and Royal Blue is, it's about the bisexual first son of the United States falling in love with the gay Prince of England and they have like a love affair and it's it's a rom com. It's like it has like all the tropes that you want, and it's like enemies

to lovers. There's a fake not relationship, but like they're forced together because they have to pretend to be friends because of a cake incident. It is just really so many, so many components of it should be on paper like a bad book, and it is an incredible book all the way through. Fran What were your other favorite books of the year. I really loved Cleanness by Garth Greenwell, which is like an erotic novel that has a really gorgeous prose. I think Arth Greenwell writes like the best

sex scenes on the planet. I also really loved Little Devil in America by Heneif Abdura Cybe, which is a collection of criticism on black culture in America, starting from like things like Soul Train or Michael Jackson or you know, a Wreath of Franklin to like, you know, things happening in the modern day. I just think that Hennie's writing as like a poet is a really beautiful lens on cultural criticism. Another book I've I forgot to mention that

I really loved this year. I don't think that this came out this year, but it was one of my faves a Dowry of Blood by S. T. Gibson. It's about Dracula's brides and it's like super saffic and really like beautiful lyrical writing. So if you're into vampires and lesbians, which why wouldn't you be? Why wouldn't you check it out? It's a it's a nice like little novella. It's probably like two pages. The virgins listening. We want to hear

what your best of was this year. You should like tweet at us are getting our Instagram stories about like what you were your faiths of the year, Like, I'm just curious to see what else is out there? Yeah, to tell us we want to know, don't don't don't do googled moon Struck to find out what year it is, and there you know the section where says people also ask the first question is why is moon Struck a

good movie? Uh? So, I guess that's a that's a good way to are our discussion for an excellent primise why is moon Struck a good movie? So? The thing about Moonstruck, at least upon first watch, is that it has all of the ingredients of what you think will be a bad movie. It has a kind of bizarre premise. It has Share, who you think is not an actress if you've never watched Share before, and then you have

Nicholas Cage, who's kind of like a meme in pop culture. Now, well, I don't let's not talk about why people think it's a bad movie. Why is it a good movie? Well, because it's like maybe one of the most beautiful like meditations on like love and fate and like the messiness of romance that like I've ever watched in my entire life. Why do you think it's a good movie. It's really funny. It's a really great slice of life movie, which I love. It's kind of structured like a play in a way.

It's it's a very tight glimpse into a really short period of time in one family's life. Very John Patrick Chinley, right, I think Moonstruck is definitely remembered as one of the greatest films of our lifetimes. And it's a romantic comedy, which I don't think, like are not usually elevated in the kind of way that moon Struck is. Plus, you've never seen Nick Cage in like a Ram Camp. Well, actually National Treasure, you know, is kind of a rom calm it's a what is the romance between him and

Treasure Hunt? No, there's a there's a woman in it. I don't know, I saw ages ago, but there's a woman in it that he like kind of falls in love with while as they're like, you know, you know, pillaging for Treasure. And I wouldn't call it a romantic comedy. I would, I would, I would. I would say National Treasure is a romantic comedy for those of you listening that maybe haven't watched yet, which is you didn't do your homework. But that's okay, that's why you're here. Um,

should we like loosely go over the plot? Sure? Loretta Casserini, she is a widow. She is supposed to be, like I guess saw a homely version of share. They like, give her gray hair, they's account. She's a woman who, you know, kind of feels that life has passed her by, so she's not really taking care of herself. Yeah, exactly. She lives. She lives at home with her family in this frankly incredible house that probably costs millions and millions

of dollars. I'm so glad you brought it up, because it is in fact for sale for the nominal price of twelve point three million dollars. And and if any daddy's out there listening to this podcast, want to know, these turned into like a virgin headquarters part of Brooklyn Heights. It's like an a gorgeous location. You're right on the water, like it's just it would be so beautiful. Also a very important part of the movie is that Share is

Italian and her family is Italian. I would say that is maybe the most important thematic thing about the movie. I would disagree by I get what. I would get what you're saying. It is about and it is about and its Hallians family. Yes, this is about you know, Italian culture. So Share is a widow. She is in a relationship with Johnny Ary who proposes to her. But I'm the worst way, yeah, and the horrible um rotted and definitely not how I want to be proposed to,

even though I don't want to be proposed to. You can watch the movie, but like it's painting this picture of a woman who has basically conceded to life. Her previous husband got hit by a bus, she doesn't really kind of believe in love anymore. She's in her thirties, which like in this era, like in the eighties, it's like, you know, you might as well be dead if you're like a woman in your thirty and you're not married. Like it's it's just like there's so many different I mean,

that's also like an Italian American thing. Like she's like a failed woman, and so she's found the nearest possible guy, this guy Johnny Camerary, who is like a shlub and terrible. Yes, but he is a family man, and so he proposes to her and then has to go to Italy because his mother is dying, and he says, I can't, like I need my mother needs to be a part of this this well, he says, I can't get married until

like until my mother is okay, until she dies. Um. But before he leaves to Italy, he tells Loretta that he needs to reconcile with his brother played by Nicholas Cage Ronnie so hot Um before they get married. So Loretta has to go and you know, try to help mend this rift between the brothers, someone she's never met, never met, and spoiler alert, she and Ronnie fall in love. They don't just fall in love, they fuck. They have like great tack they have. It's well, we will get

into it. But also while all this is going on, we also see Loretta's family life and her mother played by olymp You Ducaccus, is feeling you know, slighted by her father, which she should because her father is having an affair of course. Um it feels like a lot of there's a lot of themes of like infidelity, loving the wrong people, stuff like that. Yes, and then there's also a moon, right, the moon of the primary characters, one of the yes as played by the Moon as

played by um Ariana Grande. No as played by the Moon. Oh yeah, the Moon appearing as herself. I just always imagine, you know how are like loves the moon. She's a cancer, Yes, she's a cancer, and she just you know, the moon is like a part of her set or everything. I can just see her like little face popping out of the moon when like they go, oh look it's Cosmos Cosmos moon, and then you just see Ari and she's

like Unfortunately. I do think that in twenty years someone will try to remake Moonstruck, and like probably will cast Ariana Grande No. It's gonna be like Beanie Feldstiner something like that. But Arianna's Italian, I know, but ari cannot pull well. I'm not saying she can do it. I'm saying they will probably try to make her do it, and no one could possibly ladder up to what Share gives. However, I can give camp I think that she would be fine.

She would have. We have we given a good enough explanation of the plot of moonstruct the setup, which I think is all shots needed because we can, you know, meander through these other parts. It must be said that, um, when Johnny, not Ronnie, not Nicolas Cage, but Nicolas Cage's brother is taking off on the airport, there's an old woman as played by Rose Damn you. Um it is literally literally you and there's a old woman. She's like

looking at the plane as it's leaving. This is back in the day pre ninal event, when you could like go and like watch people like take flight, you know, watch their flights take off or whatever. Watch them to five gravity, watch them to via gravity. Yeah, there's an old woman that's like, I put a coach on that plane on my sister who cheated on me, and she her sister and cheat on her sister married the man that she had wanted to marry exactly. It's not important.

It's like a kind of like throw away no, but it's a great like the movie is filled with these small moments that just stick with you like that they're so specific yes and unexpected, and this movie has one of the best glow ups of all time. Share, who starts the movie looking kind of dowdy, which like for any other woman, would be the most glamorous they ever looked, and she still looks amazing. Yeah um she So Share hooks up with Ronnie and they go to the opera

together and before that she gets a makeover. Well there's some steaks in that too. Basically, Ronnie says, She says, this is a cheating We're cheating right now. This will never work. We can never speak to each other again. And Ronnie says, okay, fine, We're never going to speak to each other again one basically like one more time with feeling like let's do one last cheaty thing and

let me take you to the opera. It's like this kind of like there's this emotional steak to it where Ronnie's like, I'm never going to be happy without you in my life and I can't have you, but can I have you just for this one night? And so Share gives us what is the makeover montage of all makeover montages? I mean not of all, but like it's a really good makeover. It's not even really like that

much of a montage. Like you do see her, you know, in the chair getting her hair done, her makeup done, but it's about the moment when she emerges and is Share. She's Share, she is and sheher says in interviews that she preferred playing like the dowdier version of Loretta. Like she she you know, after the glow up. She you know,

was having a harder time. She really can inhabit a character like That's something that is really beautiful about her portrayal of Loretta is even though she has her sherry kind of snap out of it like things in it, Like it still is not her distinctly. Yeah. I do love the scene right after she gets made over where she goes home and she's like sitting in front of the fire and getting ready. Um, that is my favorite scene too. I have to say, like it is essentially

a sex scene with no one else. She comes home, she turns on the fireplace, she pours herself a glass of wine like some like you know, sexy like shod Day kind of jazz plays she and she's like, literally, it's literally us after Black Friday, like opening up her all the things she bought for herself. She's a dragon looking at all the wealth that she's hoarded, and you

know not to go to earnest too quickly. But like that scene actually I think encapsulates like my favorite element of the film, which is like a story that is actually about coming into your own and falling in love with yourself again. Like the Portrait of Loretta is like this woman who has she's a wolf, as they say in the film, like she has like she's been down on her luck. She doesn't really believe in magic or love anymore. She doesn't really think that she deserves nice things.

And now a decade after her lover has died, she finally has this like hot guy that's really into her, that's swept her off her feet in an unexpected way, and she's like, oh, I am actually desirable. There's this very funny scene as she just is exiting the make of her montage where a bunch of construction workers like kind of cat call her and she goes like who me, Like like, are you sure? Like it's kind of this like, oh,

I forgot what it feels like to be attractive. So when she sits down with her like you know, Chanel shoes or whatever the her Revlon like it's so beautiful. Yeah, I really want to have that kind of share a moment like not even like a makeover or like buying something that makes me feel better about myself, but like that moment where you realize that you are a like

embodied sexual being. I really want that for myself this um like holiday season, that's what that's the energy I'm bringing into Yes, that is that is And there's even after like when you know, she turns on the fireplace and she pours herself a glass of point, she goes over to the mirror and she looks at herself like

like it's like sex. It did kind of remind me of the scene in the House of Gucci as Mauriceo Gucci is getting killed when Gaga's in the bath, and it kind of reads as if she's like masturbating to the thought of her estranged husband being murdered. There are actually a lot of side by sides between like House

of Gucci and Moonstruck. Did you notice, I mean you you're kind of alluding to these, like, yeah, well, I do think like Gaga and Share doing similar things in these roles, or like I do think the House of

Gucci is kind of like Gaga's Moonstruck. Yeah, okay, we'll get into the movie comparisons, but on that actually, I mean, obviously I'm not saying like Gaga's copying Shure, but Gaga is in shares lineage when she goes from the pop star to award winning actress, you know, elevation like that is like absolutely you see those you know how those are blossoming together and they're both doing like Gaga is

doing it I think beautifully. But like with this movie specifically, when the trailer dropped, everyone's making fun of Gaga, you know what I mean, Everyone's like, you know, dragging the accent. They're like, this is gonna be so camp. When Moonstruck, like the premier of Moonstruck was like happening, Like SHARE's name would come on the credit scene and the audience would laugh at her, and then who had the last laugh?

She did exactly. It's this moment where you've been a caricature, because to be a pop star, to be a woman and a pop star, is to be a character. You have to constantly force this, like you know, archetype of yourself, often changing your identity over and over again just to like stay in the business. But like people you know don't want to take those archetypes seriously, like Madonna or Share or Gaga, And so when they decigned to do something serious, all of a sudden, everyone's like, no, you

can't do that. Yeah, well okay, so you, of the two of us, you are the share her Storian. I love Share, but you love Share on a on a level that I cannot even like think of as sending to. So where where was Share in her life and her career when Moonstruck came along? Okay, so basically it had been Oh, I guess her and Sunny broke up seventy nine, I think, and this movie took place in eight seven, um between seventy nine and early eighties. She re emerged

as a solo pop star pretty quickly. Um or actually not quickly. She had a few flops and then everyone was like, oh, no, Share is just share. We forgot

about Sonny. Sonny dies. I think a year or two before Moonstruck comes out, and it actually should be said, I was reading recently that this movie was very hot off the tails of shares appearance on The Letterman Show, the very iconic one that has like I think, recirculated a lot on share Twitter, which I am on, wherein she calls Letterman an asshole because he's being a fucking asshole and doing what Letterman always does, which is ask women about people they've slept with or plastic surgery or

like whatever. You know. It was kind of a viral moment proceeding viral media, and so this version of share where she's kind of like, never gonna let men do that to her in a public place. I hesitant, hesitate to say like feminist, but like that kind of component of like I'm not going to let you say that to me. Kind of share, this share that you know, we'll never let you live it down is coming out right at this time. Everyone's seeing this side of So is this does this predate the mom I am a

rich Man moment? It does predate the mom I am a rich So this is really like the genesis of share kind of becoming the share we know today. She did already have anom for silk Wood, where she played Meryl Streep's lesbian roommate. I have never seen Silkwood. I will have to really need it on it um. Then she had been in a few other flop movies silk What she got an arm And this was the year it was, which is of Eastwick? It was also eight seven? Oh wow, so which is it? Eastwick and Moonstrauck came

out in the same year. Yeah, I guess probably the two film roles that Share is best known for. And so with this movie specifically, they really didn't think it was going to transcend, Like they only spent fifteen mill on it. Olympia Ducoccus said in interviews later, she was like, this movie is going to be a flop. She thought this movie was going to be a flop, and she

talked about it with actors on set. Um And the movie was one of the highest grossing films of the year, and Share won an Oscar for it, and it didn't win Best Picture. It won Best Screenplay. Okay, I don't think it was nominated for Best Picture, which, like it makes sense because I think the writing is part of

what mad like. Obviously, the performances are what we remember, but the writing and the story, Like when I say that it has the same kind of structure as a play, I do think like it comes down to like the language and the way the story is told, and how One thing that really struck me when I saw it is how these really dramatic things are happening, but people are not reacting to them in melodramatic ways. Like it

really it feels so lived in and so real. Um Like at the end when um Olympiodococcus says to Share, like do you love him, Loretta, and she says I do, and she says like what did she feel? Like, it's like, oh that's too bad. Yeah, you know, like it's so it's so grounded in this family feels real. It also has to be said that another thing that you and I respond to in the in the in the vein of what you're talking about is the wolf feness of all of the characters, Like there's this inside you. There

are two wolves. One of them is Share and the other one is also Share. Yeah. Yeah, Well the film used to be called it was called The Bride and the Wolf or whatever, before it was called Moonstruck, And it comes from this conversation in the sex scene that Rose was talking about earlier, where they say you're a wolf, and um, there's this iconic line where she says, not Loretta,

but Loretta's I guess. Aunt says I've seen a wolf and every man I ever met, and I say, a wolf in me you, and like the motif of the wolf is used as this downtrodden person, like someone who has been so kind of like hardened by life that they have these underwhelmed like this kind of like monotony reaction to anything that happens, even if it is like mystical and magical and and love like because I don't know, I would warrant to say that you and I are kind of jaded by life a little bit, like I

think that you and I are, you know, always like in a very stupid way, being like love doesn't exist like man suck blah blah blah, but like it comes it comes from a place, a specific place of like how you or I grew up. And I guess in this moment, like how Shares character came to Fruition. Before we met the character herself, I did um as someone who had heard about this movie and seen the way that it permeated pop culture for so long, but never

actually sat down and watched it. When I did watch it, it felt like it slotted itself into like my identity so quickly. So the first time you ever watched the movie, what what was the thing that you kind of immediately latched onto, Like what component of it where you were like, aside from obviously share which takes up a lot of space, and like the reasons that someone might watch Moonstruck, Like what did you come away with that affected it, that made it? I just I don't know I can break

it down to one thing. I really do think it's a perfect movie. Um, and it feels so warm. I agree it's a perfect movie. I'm obviously very prone to exaggeration and hyperbole, but I do think that it's perfect. And when I made me laugh, it made me cry. It feels like it's like that that video of Gwyneth Paltrow. I laughed, I cried, I had a shot, you know, like it is. It is the full range of human

emotions in one film. Generally speaking, I I do love things that strike that balance between like absurdist and camp and like kind of even quote unquote bad when someone says is like, why is this movie good? Why this movie bad? Whatever? Um, And also happens to be like very emotionally resonant at the end, like I think that the thing that it teaches you is really beautiful. But I which we'll get into, But I have to say, when I first watched this movie, I was like a

freshman in college, had no idea what to expect. Was blown away by the idea that share In Nicolas Cage are in a movie together. I think that's the most common reaction, at least now. Well, this is at such an early stage of Nicolas Cage's career, and like I guess, from what you're saying, a kind of weird midway point in shares or like a transitional point. Um. I do think this is the one time Nicolas Cage has ever

been hot, absolutely, and he is very hot. He is like if he had to peek and only be hot once, this was it. Because he is so fucking sexy in a way that is like still kind of gross. Like the first scene where she goes into the basement of the bakery. You know that Chrissie gave me the big bring me the Big night, Ronnie the sexual chemistry they have. I mean, of course, like how could you not have that with share Um? But I really do think that this their their love scene is the best romantic, sexy

love scene I've ever seen. And it's bizarre as well. Yeah, it's weird, it's weird her cooking him the steak, and it's just and and like the melodrama of it, the uh I don't care, take me, take me the movie likes to the thing about I guess talking about like camp in this film or like John Patrick Shanley's kind of love for exaggeration is that so many he takes all these tropes from rom coms and romances we've already seen and you kind of like inflates them a little

bit and makes them like bizarre and weird. And so you know, in that sex scene, like Nick Cage like swoops her off her feet in a way that feels like almost like the scene was like overblocked, like or like they were doing it. And again it is like play. It feels like it feels like it feels like they are playing to the back of the house and in

in a scene that is shot very intimately. And then it also like the script also loves like these ham fisted metaphors, like in the scene in the Bakery where like Nick Cage goes, He's like, and I big bread, bread, bread, and I still get in it out of this hot hole every day, like he says that, And like John Petrick Chanley knows what he's doing when he said, like when he when they say, like, you're a bride without a head, a wolf without a foot, and then he

sweeps her off her feet for no reason, like he knows that that's weird. And I think that part of the reason that people say, wait, this is a bad movie is because they don't understand how self aware of the script actually do people say it's a bad movie, Yes, absolutely. I think a lot of people don't understand that this

film is legitimately good. There's a kind of, you know, a whole caravan of people, especially like gay gays, that are like, oh my god, it's so bad it's good, which I love things that are so bad it's good. But that's not I guess I just like, how have been engaged with that part of it. I have only interacted with people who genuinely love this movie. I think the movie has like a like some beautiful like lessons and themes that kind of come from what are there

the idea of being a wolf without a foot? Like the monologue comes through because Share makes some presumptions about like Nick Cage's former former romantic life, which in the movie it's like his hand got chopped off by a bread slicer and then his wife left him because he wasn't paying attention because he was distracted by his brother, which is like why there's a rift between them, right and she kind of like pull She kind of says

right away, look like you're jaded by life. You've done this to yourself, Like it's not about your hand, This isn't about your hand, this is about you. And Nick Cage spins it around. He's like, you're doing the exact same thing since you your husband died a decade ago. You know, they kind of like see each other's like hurt or like they're kind of like tortured romantic past lives, and that is like what makes them decide to have sex,

you know what I mean. It's like the fact that Share couldn't Share didn't have anything in common with Johnny because her actual fiance because he's an idiot and he's lived a charmed life, but she also seems to be like a marriage of not convenience. But she's settling, yeah, you know, definitely settling. Yeah yeah, but that's I think. My favorite thing about this film is like, um, Sharon Nicolas Cage, like they get spoiler, they get together in the end and they get they said they're going to

get married. Um, they're probably not a great match for marriage, you know what I mean? Like they may not. Actually if you think about, like if there were a sequel, like I don't think they would last as a couple. I do. Well, Okay, we should get into that. But

my point is it's it actually the London. Whether the relationship works or not has nothing to do with to me, the key lesson, of the crucial lesson of the film, which is that Share is falling in love with herself and Ronnie happens to be a vehicle for that because she's finally doing something that she just wants to do

instead of settling for something she has to. I also think that if we're gonna like fan fictionify Moonstruck and think about what would happen next, Like there is something about like the cycle of what happens in families, and maybe like after Moonstruck, like she and Ronnie will end up in this situation that her parents are in where her dad's cheating on her mom, and like eventually she's like, knock it off and they come back together because they

do think there's a tension in Moonstruck between responsibility and passion and how those things play out in families, because you know, the father is having this affair with this woman, and you know his wife like doesn't leave him. Um, she just kind of remind him like you you know, you're my husband, like, you know, knock it off. Well, she says, well, first of all, she um Olympia Ducoccus.

After we're finding out that her husband is cheating on her, goes on like a very innocent kind of dinner date with the Fraser guy or whatever. And in this conversation the dad from the dad from Fraser um And in this conversation she goes, she's thinking about her husband cheating on he and she goes, why do men chase women? And he has this like kind of long like me and you're an answer about like you know whatever, something stupid, and she goes, I think it's because they fear death

and like, which is so true. It is absolutely true, you know, I think about it's so true. The thrill of the chase is it's literally a production of testosterone because before I transitioned, the way I thought about sex was just about hunting it down and finding it, and then the actual act itself was always like kind of anticlimactic, considering it's a climax every time. Um, it was really about the hunt, and like I was so much more

of a predator not a predator. Um, I mean that is why when men the actual answer to why men chase women is because they're all predators. Like yeah, but it's it's true, like there is this like biological imperative in men two hunt for sex like a wolf, and I like that Share in this movie like finds that impulse within her to like be the wolf. Despite being so much about like this traditional Italian American family. It subverts this idea of fidelity and in the end, like

cheaters actually do prosper you know what I mean. I love about it and it's really like, um, that's like you know, like the film ends with the man who Share has cheated on being welcomed into the family. Because she is now in love with his brother. And the end the movie is like as one big, happy, dysfunctional family,

and that feels really realistic. You know, families are complicated and fucked up and people make bad decisions and life goes on, which brings me to my favorite moment in the entire film and the scene that I do have tattooed on my leg, which is when Share and Nicolas Cage have this. Basically, they've gone to the opera together.

Share is very moved by the opera. She catches her dad cheating with this woman that kind of puts her on a mental spin about her own infidelity and what she's doing with Nicolas Cage, and so they have this argument about love and why and Share is kind of being like, we shouldn't be doing this, and Nicholas Cage says love isn't perfect like stars are perfect, snowflakes are perfect, Like love is not supposed to be this like perfect picture that you see at the end of a rom com.

It's supposed to be messy and we're supposed to love the wrong people. And that's why I love this movie, is like there is something to take away from the ways and the kind of molds that we fit our own stories into because that's what you're supposed to do. You're not supposed to cheat on your partner. But they are actually so many reasons, like for specific people's specific lives why actually would be very legitimately rational to like cheat on your partner or to fall in love with

someone new. That is, that could be the actual better route for you. You could have a better partner by cheating, And that doesn't make it right, but that does make it an essential part of your destiny, which I think is like the motif of the moon is like the moon is about mysticism and serendipity and things just kind of happening and being beautiful. Have you ever been cheated on or been a cheater? I've never been cheated on. However, I have been the other woman seven times. That's a

lot of times. But I you know, that's it wasn't I mean, I would say a lot of it was when I was in college, and some of it was with the same They were at least two of these people where they cheated on multiple boyfriends with me, which is I mean, I'm not like proud as I but at the time I was like very like that's on them, like this is about them, this is about you. Absolutely are have also been the other woman, yeah, to to

married men. I've been the other woman to one married man in situations where both like I knew what was going on or like phone out after the fact, or like it was just kind of implied and it's it's really complicated, and you know you you I have certainly never asked about it. Yeah, I don't either. You kind of avoid it to like because you don't. You don't

you don't know what people's situations are. Although I certainly think I don't think in any of the scenarios I've been in, like these people were in an open relationship. I think as as you know, queer people in one, hopefully we're not getting into situations where anyone's cheating because we are, you know, in open relationships or have partners who are like polyamorous or you know, whatever the situation is. But even in open relationships, like there can still be

in fidelity. And I think really what it comes down to is is lying to your partner. It is and that is like the crucial it's kind of a loophole in the film is that like sure doesn't necessarily lie to Johnny to get to where she is. She's just kind of like circumnavigated, I guess the truth to get to that moment, the full circle of that old woman as played by you Rose Doamu casting the curse on

the plane that Johnny is on. She basically like says, I put across on that plane, it's going to crash and burn or whatever, and shares like I don't believe in curses. Um, the fact that she cursed the plane, that the curse came true, Johnny's wife basically cheated on him and left him. It's like the curse kind of manifested, and what is the perfect ending? So full circle is so full circle? Well, I've never been in a monogamous

relationship before, so I've never been a cheater. I've had partners who I've been dishonest too, and I think that can be as devastating in relationships as infidelity, if not worse. Honestly, I think that a lot of like especially in like sis hetero relationships, like infidelity is like this like a okay, it's over, like fuck you, Like that's a final straw, Like there's no way you can stay together after the cheating happens, and like that's just, like, to me, such

a limiting way to think about your relationship. It's also not realistic. I think, like I would imagine that most monogamous couples have there has been some kind of infidelity and whether they've talked about it or not, like they've moved past it. I think probably the best example is the Sex and City movie when Steve cheats on Miranda and like it almost ends their marriage, but they you know, decide mutually to move past it stay together. Wow, Esther

Perel found dead. Um, I feel like Esther Perel, I don't know how that is. Oh my god. The producer Phoebe is freaking out as much as I am. Okay, So Esther Perel is this relationships expert. She's Jewish and she's like literally a genius, and she has a lot of like teachings about like romance, especially like monogamous relationship romance.

But she has you know, whole book a doubt like the artifice of infidelity as we've created it in Western culture, and like how movies like rom coms have painted this picture of cheating being the thing that you will never get away with and everything else you can work through, you know what I mean, which is so absurd, and so that's again another beautiful thing about this movie is like just painting a picture wherein infidelity actually is the

best fate for these protagonists, you know what I mean. Do you ever see yourself wanting to be in a monogamous relationship, a Monoga Mish relationship, Yes, for sure. I think honestly, if we were painting the fan fick of share in Knick Cage, they probably are gonna. If they were to work, it would have to be like Monoga Mish or like an open relationship or something. For me personally, I feel like I believe in love cycles, you know

what I mean. I think I go through like moments with people or in it's like really deep, really passionate, really intimate and can be for a long long time, but that those cycles have endings. And if that includes like me being with a long term partner and then maybe falling for a short term partner or something like that, like I don't know, I think that's much more realistic

than an idea of monogamy. What about you, I would like to say that I don't think I'll ever want to be in a monogamous relationship because it hasn't happened. But I also know myself well enough to know that I am secretly a romantic, and I if I was in love with someone deeply enough that I wanted to commit myself to them, I don't know if I could, like be in an open relationship. Yeah, you don't think,

I don't know. I really don't know. But for as as jaded and cynical as I am and always have been, especially in a way that's been applied to my relationships, I really am a romantic and like believe in I don't know true love. I don't know if I believe in it for myself. We'll see, we'll see if it happens, um But you know, like if who who knows? Like if I will fall in love with someone in a way so deeply where I can't imagine wanting to be with someone else, and where I would be devastated if

they wanted someone else. I know that it's not fair or realistic to expect that, you know, one person will only want to be intimate with one person for the rest of their lives. But I don't know. I do feel like there's part of me that like wouldn't be okay with it. You know. It's so funny though, is that like the premise of that question that we hear a lot of, like do you believe in love? Do

you believe in that kind of romance? Is really predicated on this picture of this mainstream depiction of love that we see in movies and books and whatever since the dawn of time. It's like we have when we are asked do you believe in love? They're actually asking do you believe in this fairy tale kind of Oh? Absolutely? I know that my romanticism comes from the media I consumed at a formative age, which is why this like

moon Strike is amazing. But like that's like our answers should be like I don't believe in that version of love, but like there's a version of perfect romance that maybe doesn't check all the boxes that you think it needs to check, that is still true love. Yes, absolutely. That's one of the beautiful things about Moonstruck is it provides a lens to like look at your life and your relationships in like there is something for everyone in it.

It does the best thing art can do, which is like tell a really specific story that also is extremely universal, and it breaks down this like the dichotomy of the bride and the wolf, the person who believes in love, believes in the fantasy, and the person who's like jaded by life and won't you know, accept it in It's like, it's basically saying that there is like a medium between these two things that can make you a perfectly well

rounded person. Honestly, this is like you and me. It's like you're the wolf, I guess, and I'm the am I the bride. Yeah, you're You're the bride and also believe, but also like I'm secretly the bride. Yeah, you are, and I'm secretly the wolf. Yeah, inside you there are two wolves. One is one is Yes. Well, this is our last episode of the year. I know we started this kind of towards the end of the year, but

you us and the listeners are we're new friends. Yes, And even though we've only done a few months of episodes. Fran and I started working on this podcast almost a year ago at this point, basically in the new year. Yeah, and it has been really beautiful to see y'all listen to it and respond to it and engage with it, and I'm so grateful for everyone who listens to this podcast. I'm so grateful to our producer Phoebe, everyone at I hear,

our team and I heart who are so amazing. And I'm so grateful to Fran my co host, the Sister a rare on the record moment of genuine affection. It won't last. I'm grateful for you too, Rose, And I'm thankful for all the Virgins. We love you, virgin, Grateful for what you're introducing to me next week. Oh yeah, So next up on our first episode of two, we will be talking about Twilight, which, to be totally honest, is maybe the purest like um kind of can see

of this podcast in general. It's like something Rose genuinely showed me for the first time. Yes, and we will be discussing it with the like number one Twilight stand I know other than myself. Peyton dix Um leave us a review, please if you love us also tweeted us, posting your Instagram story, tell us are you a wolf

or are you a bride? And don't forget if you want to call in and let us know the thing that you are so obsessed with cable, leave us a message little Confession if you will at three to three pennants that's three to three seven three six two six two three. I'm friend Ratto. You can find me at Friends squish co on Instagram and Twitter. And I'm Rost Damn You. You can find me at Rose Damn You on Instagram and Twitter. You can subscribe to Like a

Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Our producer is Phoebe you inter v PU inter We Love you dB with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and Nikki Vtour Until next week, see you later, Virgin until next year. Until next year in two virgins, We love you so much. Bye,