Yah-sure, oh y'betcha

And also I was furious when I found out Fran had never seen dropped at Gorgeous. We will also be talking about, you know, the many incredible films of First and Done, Britney Murphy, and also maybe like a little bit more pageant culture, because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros damn you and I'm Fran Toronto and uh, I guess it's time to put on our trs and go, go go. You're one in a million. That's the song

from Miss Continuality. Have they Danced to? We talked a little bit about crimes in last week's episode well, I would, I say, talked about and more made fun of. How could we have known that she would be so present in this week's news? This is really top of mind for me. Did you before we get into it, did you see all the various crimes drops that happened last week? I believe the only thing I really saw was the

fact that she had a second secret baby and secret baby. Okay, but did you like read the excerpt from the interview in which her secret baby was revealed. No, it's so insane because what happened was she was doing an interview for a cover story for Vanity Fair, and the reporter as they're like talking for four hour or is here's two babies crying upstairs and has to be like, uh, is that do you have a second baby? And she's like, yes, I do. And like, obviously, I think partially she had

to have known what she was doing. Yeah, if you if you're if you're actively concealing a baby, you shouldn't invite a reporter to your house. Obviously, celebrities deserve whatever privacy they can get. But like, it's so her to like have a secret baby with one of the worst men on the planet and then the Grimes news continued, because she's also dating Chelsea Manning, which to me is dating Chelsea man Oh my god, you didn't see this. She's dat is very like does make a lot of sense,

but it's also very get a job, stay away from her. Yeah, wait, that doesn't make sense. It also feels like very I'm sorry posturing because you're dating the opposite of Elon mu essentially, like what the fuck? But like, they do kind of make sense to me as a couple. You know, they're both fucking weirdo. What's most disconcerting about all of this is now we have to stay on the Grime speat.

We are Grimes. I have never left you. Oh wait, actually, speaking of absolutely whack things that we can read in the Hollywood Reporter, etcetera, we never discussed the Madonna boot count. That's because I've been too busy at the Madonna boots. Sergeant. Yeah, drilling the girls. Okay, so honestly, like so when you when Annadelvie and Florence you come in, like, how do you how are you drilling them? Like? Are you being

like no, like you to shave their heads? It's full g I Jane shave their heads put a little put a little beauty mark right here, and then honestly, like, okay, first of all, the Madonna movie is never happening, right,

let's just let's just get that out there. But I almost think that because it's never happening, like a movie about the Madonna boot camp is so much more interesting to me, like like a you know, like a documentary or a mockumentary in the vein of drop Ed Gorgeous, which we're talking about today, I think would be so funny. I mean, no matter what, this movie is going to be terrible. There's there's no way it's not. Madonna has

too much control of it. It's like that that meme of Snooky Typing going, this is going to be so bad. Like that's literally that was Diabolo Coty writing the Madonna biopic before she quit or was fired, right, well, probably a combination of the two. Yeah, I agree that the quality will absolutely wane because of Madonna's like fervent involvement.

I mean clearly Madonna is like I feel like she's at this boot camp and just like truly like I'm thinking about Naomi Campbell on the face, just like screaming at these girls. Completely publicly human relating them. Um, but I will say if Florence Pugh or Alexa to me are cast, I will absolutely enjoy the movie, no matter how garbage it is, because both of those as casting options are my celebrities. I actually think Florence Pugh, I think it's um, it's not right for where she is

in her career. I think actually, Alexa, to me it makes more sense because like she does have like the buzz of euphoria behind her, but like is still relatively early. Well I mean we know that she's an agent being because exist is a lot of time, but it's still pretty early in her acting career. So I think that to me makes more sense. But honestly, I think it should be like an unknown and I say it's bad, but like, I just want to clarify, this is a

Madonna stand podcast, at least my half of it. I I love Madonna and we're not going to see this day one. Yeah, I am a little madonster for when there's watched it. Well it's a reference to um NECKI minij the real Ones. No, but yeah, we will obviously be seeing the Madonna biopic, which you know hopefully will just forever kill this trend of like music biopics that

really should have died immediately after Bohemian Rhapsody. I have faith that this is going to be good, but if not, we at least get to do a Madonna episode, which you know, should we see around Madonna episode? Anyway, she is the reason why the podcast is named the way it is. Please don't see us, Please don't see us. Um, did you watch drag Race this week? I did, unfortunately, watch this week's Drag Race, and I almost threw my

TV out my second story window. Yeah, Snatch Game is routinely unwatchable, but this was like it was a next level kind of failure. And I to me, Michelle Vissage one Snatch Game like her investigation or my investigation, which was so funny, and it was funny, and Rue kind of tried to take it away from her. Yeah, well he I think they kind of became little a little

like kind of comedy buddies on it. But like I I do, I feel like over the last two seasons or so, Rue is, you know, micro dosing something totally different, and her valves are much looser, you know, like she cares. She's a little less composed, she kind of says more what's on her mind and like in recent years, and for her to be like when she was like no, George, just like, don't get down on yourself. You were all equally as bad, Like that was so funny, very funny.

And they kind of were all equally as bad. Like it really there was not like one standout stinker like there usually is. It was they were all bad. Yeah, and and even even Deja was bad. Yeah, even Deja was bad. The winner was like so lame. And I feel like, to me, I don't know, I hate standing drag Race because I feel so basic. But I just have to say that this judge's panel is they're just

so good at what they do. And that was like one of the least entertaining sketches we've ever had to endure on Drag Race, and they pulled so much entertaining content out of it by way of the critique. Like I was so entertained at the end of the episode. It was so bad that to me, the season should have just ended right there. And I can't believe that no one was eliminating again, oh my god, wait, I didn't even eliminated. Someone's about to be eliminated. If not

two people, hopefully it should be all of them. They all should have been eliminated. The season shouldn't be over. But by that logic, Deja would have won. So no, no, no, I'm she should have been eliminated. To said, pack it up and up. If you were, there's so many of them left and were so far into this you were to do um tough one to answer. I can't. I can't do an impression of anyone. You definitely can. We've heard it on this podcast. I'm sure. Honestly, I feel

like I would do. I feel like I was the only one I could maybe think of his loving and like I feel like I could do a version of her that was like, you know, just transphobic. I don't know. I feel like I feel like I could pull it off with a nice little breastplate and like a little but how would you make it funny? I don't know. This is me, This is me ru coming into the workroom and like, give me a little bit of your banana.

Oh no, this is the worst part. This is I would choke like Georgia's I'm sure I'd be like y'all. I don't know. I can't. And this is where I would tell you who else are you considering? And then I'd be like, um, I don't even know, I feel like I would. I actually okay, So here's actually the missed opportunity. Betsy Devas an extremely good choice for a snatch game, very smart, we don't know what she sounds like.

You get to do so much with this role. And Jasmine Kennedy looks astoundingly like like um fucking Betsy Devas, like the same nose shape, the same face shape. It was like comical. When they showed a picture of Betty Bass, I was like, that is Jasmine Kennedy. But like again, these girls just boofed it. So further proof that Jasmine Kennedy should have gone home like three episodes ago. Yeah, yeah, I don't even think that her lip sinking is that good.

Unfortunate that I do like her as a person. Know her lip syncing is bad. That lip sync with her and Georgia's was not that good. Yeah, but she's she's being poised or maybe she's positioning herself as this kind of lip sync assassin, and I'm just like, she's not She's not one on that part to me, Um. Yeah, this season of Drag Race, I'm I'm losing my patience and I'm losing interest very quickly. Thankfully, there's other TV to grab my attention, like Who Lose the Dropout, which

I'm currently obsessed with. Um. For anyone who doesn't know, it's a show about Elizabeth Holmes, the infamous scammer who started Paraos. And you watched the first couple episodes, I had no. I had no plans of watching it because I just felt so burned by the last like nine scammer cultural objects we've gotten. I was like, this is not going to deliver. And I also just don't care about Elizabeth Holmes story. But Dan, did you watch did you watch the documentary? No? I did it? Um, I should,

I've heard. I've heard the documentary is amazing. I liked Going into a Cold. I think that that this show on like other scammer stories, like like kind of found a really good balance between what is a thrilling engine for a story and like a nuanced portrayal of a scammer, And like there's usually this kind of tug and pull of like do we want to be extremely biographical and extremely like realist and nuanced or do we want to be like totally you know, balls to the wall Ryan

Murphy level kind of scammer story. Um, and I think that this hit the sweet spot. Also, yes, it is a very like good time capsule of like early two thousand's and I like that it's nuanced and like does humanize her through a really incredible performance by Amanda Say read Um, I think some of her best work. But it does not let her off the hook. And like is it's not trying to do the thing that I think a lot of these like anti hero TV shows and like like do, which is like, here's why she

is the way she is and isn't that awful? And like don't you understand now? And it's like no, like you understand the positions she's being put in and and it's putting herself in and why she's making these bad decisions. But and and like it like allows you to empathize with her, but does not let her off the hook and makes it very clear that she is a bad person making bad decisions. Yeah, Like we're able to find a sympathetic portrayal it within the fact that she's like

really weird. And then we hear the story of her sexual assault in college, which is really tragic and like really you know, beautifully played by Amanda, and like I felt like, you know, there's ways of humanizing horrible people while still you know, keeping to the fact that like we don't we don't want to root for this person.

And it's almost like you know again, like I said, like the kind of engine for the story is so strong because it's like, are they are they not going to be able to you know, make this thing work in time for like when they need it, which is like I mean, it's just it's riveting, but like you're kind of rooting for them to pull it off for the sake of the rest of the team that she's kind of duped into doing this not necessarily for her sake, which is like such a hard thing to do dramatically.

Um that said, I don't want it to go full Ryan Murphy, but I do wish there was like a hair more whimsy, you know what I mean, Like I almost feel like it's too it's played pretty straight, but I like that because I think so much of what's come out about her has been pretty sensationalized, and I think people want to understand the what and the why.

Like I really loved the third episode, which is kind of all about her figuring out how to weaponize her appearance and her womanhood, and like when she starts playing with doing the voice and like developed her uniform and then like cries in front of a board meeting of men um like as like this tactic to like get

away with being bad at her job. It's really fascinating and I think, um, Like, there are some fun moments, like in the most recent episode there's like a continuing thing with Katie Perry's firework, which of course I loved, but I think it's really good at like showing and not telling why this person did what they did. And I really a great lesson on how empty your life is when like capitalism is like the sole driving force of like because all she wants is to be a billionaire.

That was her only goal, literally and that was like so that was like painted so clearly and like, but was also really depressing because there's so many people in the world like her who are obsessed with being billionaires from really young ages because billionaires are so glorified and this society as like kind of a quasi class and tier of like celebrities and like Lucky for you and I, we have found that capitalism is only one of many

driving forces in our lives as opposed. But I love other things too, Yeah, things that I can buy with money. I am like very Marxists, but like, also, there's an essence sale right now, and there's actually isn't The essence sale just ended. The private sale has been devastating. Yeah, I had. I just returned a bunch of Well maybe now that I finally I convinced you to the dropout, you will also watch the marvelous Mrs Maisiel, which just ended.

And yeah, I actually I don't think it's for you, but I will say I'll just give like my quick review numb of the season's over. I thought most of it was pretty bad, and then the last episode won me back and was very good. How is Harry? Harry was great? Harry was so good she I wish she had been in it more. She was only in one scene. But yeah, for the most part, it was not a

great season, but I did really like the finale. Um this weekend, you and I both watched Turning Red, the new Pixar movie, which is available on Just plus I loved it. It was so good. Yeah, I I had kind of low expectations. I was in it for santra O because I'll just like watch anything that she's in, but I didn't even know santra was in it, going oh my gosh, you know she's the villain kind of

um and so I don't know. I had really low expectations because I watched the trailer and I was like, I don't really want to watch a whole movie about a red panda. Like I'm I'm very based in the real world, and I thought, I was like, this is gonna be Pixar's first flop. Is like literally what I thought.

I had no offense, but it was so gorgeous and like to me, I mean, I get really emotional with grandma stuff, and I also get really emotional with chosen family stuff, and this was like such a beautiful story about how your friends and like your chosen fam can be a greater support system for you than your biological family. And like, I just never seen that in a cartoon before, Like it didn't was so cool to see a Disney

movie tackling puberty. Yeah, so explicitly, yes, so explicitly, because obviously is like this is the premise of the film is that there's this girl who like as she starts like I think the trigger for it is that she starts liking boys and then this like um magical well quote unquote curse that is in her family um gets triggered. Um,

and she whenever she's super emotional, turns into a red panda. Um. And yeah, it's so obviously like an analogy about puberty, and I think that's so important for especially young girls to be able to see. And it was like really funny and sweet and was also there was a lot speaking of early two thousands nostalgia. It's set in two thousand two, and I think really captured what it was like to be a teenage girl in that time, and

like the obsession with boy band. The music like actually slapped and I was watching the credits when the movie ended. It was all written by Billie Eilish and Phineas. I had no idea, but it's it is that good. The music is something you want to return to. And yeah,

I mean I loved it. And and to your point about like the puberty of it all, like I just you could tell the writers are in therapy, you know, like it felt like the movie was giving like kids tools and how to like cope with their anxiety and like what it like literal literal like kind of um cognitive behavioral therapy tactics to like deal with your anxiety.

And I was like, that is like so like I wish I had even a fraction of a story like this that would have explained like what was going on in my head when I was thirteen, you know, But Disney, we need to have a conversation about, like about queer representation, which I like, I know it's storing topic to talk about when it comes to Disney because it's like we go through this every couple of months where it's like here's the first blah blah blah whatever in a Disney movie,

and like it's never good representation and like they keep you know, alluding to things, and like there's definitely moments and turning red. I think that, um, you know, there's some sort of like coded queerness. Like I definitely think the The Bully is like is maybe gay, which I think, like I mean not to say that like if you like, well the Bully ends up liking the same boy band as the group of friends and they are all and like he joins the group of them, and he's kind

of feminized in that moment. Yeah, And I'm not saying like you like if you like boybriends are gay, but like, but you kind of um. And then also I think May the main character, she has this friend who like presents very butch, and like they definitely have the closest friendship of everyone in the group. And I thought that like that, I like not that she has any romantic interactions with anyone, like, nor should she have to, Like, this is a movie about a thirteen year old girl.

I'm not like trying to ascribe any sort of sexuality to her, but like there was a vibe between them, and it's at there was a little bit of a vibe and like, I'm not saying it needed to happen in this movie, although it would have been nice. I just want ear if there's one day we're like instead of talking about her crushes on boys, like, there will be a version of this movie where like she has

a crush on her friend. Yeah, I think that it's were long overdue for a queer story, and like I say that with and I think it's really worth bringing up because of all this like stupid drama around like Disney's CEO or whatever supporting the Don't Say Gay Bill or all that ship and like yeah, and then which is now leading to all the celebrities to make videos where they just say gay over note, which is like

we need to take away their Internet access. I this is like, I'm back, okay, I think this is what's talking about. I go back and forth on things like this because it's like any kind of advocacy is helpful advocacy, and I'm like proud of anybody who has gotten on their platform to talk about that Don't Say Gay bill.

But we have been talking about trans kids in sports, which is a legally a much like wider spread epidemic across this country that has been going on for like the better part of two years, and like Texas like right now only just temporarily blocked like you know, investigation

into like trans kids in sports, etcetera. But it's like I just like, I'm like, where's the energy around, like, you know, trans kids in sports that has been as as urgent of a problem where this don't Say Gay but which is obviously important impactful to the lives of queer and trans kids still, but like because it has the word gay in it, we just see a lot more people organizing around dude or I don't know, I

think that's so. It's so it's also I think it's like they're the inherent like meme mobility of it is part of why I think it's being taken up by all these celebrities because it costs them nothing to just go like make a TikTok of them going ga ga ga ga ga gay gay. It's giving very much the no hate and hate campaign, and that's just not No one needs it. I don't need I love you, Melissa McCarthy, I don't need a video of you saying gay like fifty times. Even though I it's funny to see people

from tweeting it. It's funny that are coming out of it, but it's not it's not helping anyone. That's actually such a that's such an accurate critique of like what's going on.

It's like the meme mobility is what transcends. And like these kind of like you know, Instagram influencers that repost like long carousel infographics about these things are like it's like okay, like how much of this is about what you're organizing around and how much of this is about like your ego and the way you socially profit from it, and like, I, oh, so are you breaking up the

article about queer influencers queer activist influencers? You know? To be totally honest, I didn't like the article, and I feel like there's a really incisive way of talking about the egoism of Instagram influencers as someone who has you know, lived through that journey and made the same mistakes you know, and um, but I think that what the author missed of this um, if you haven't read it, it's like

on Gawker or something unfortunately on Gawker. And to me, like with the with the piece missed was a conversation about how the thing that he's mad at isn't really these gay influencers, which I felt like the language he was using was like so heavily weighted that I was like, you're a little too close to this, babe, Like if I was your editor, I would have taken out some adjectives that you used, but like, um, to me, he missed a conversation on what he's actually mad about which

is an economy that centers social media sentiment in a way that is like so unhealthy for us as like a society, and that like because social media and Twitter and Instagram lack nuance of any kind, and because culturally we're able to deduce nuance from like you know, Instagram carousel graphics, that it's like really a cultural problem that he's not at not necessarily these influencers. You know. I

think that's actually a very fair critique. Um. I do agree that the article felt very personal, like, here's these two influencers that I don't like. Their content is annoying, and so let me build an argument out of that. That to me felt like the genesis of the article. I did like the way that he talked about sort of like the flattening of oppression, you know, using the example of right now we have to be worrying about queer and trans people in Ukraine. It's like, well, no,

we have to be worrying about the people in Ukraine. So, like I I thought there were parts of it that I found really interesting, and I think probably what I was most drawn to in the article was like the scandal of it all and like seeing you know, like the girls are fighting energy. But I do agree that this is a more systemic problem that than what he was kind of making it out. Yeah, and I think I also feel very I I feel like, you know, it's a really it's a critique that needed to be made,

and so you know, I commend the writer. I just don't think that it was done very thoroughly. And I think I'm also particularly salty about it because this is like what I'm writing my whole book about, so I know how to write it better. I cast not to be a bit but like that is like kind of where my head is at. But um, all that is to say is like I hate framing conversations around being like, well, like haven't you heard of this bill that you should

be caring? You know, Like I like, I don't if like I'm throwing an AIDS fundraiser, I don't need you to come and be like, well, have you ever heard

of cancer? You know what I mean? Like, it's probably not helpful for me to have framed that in the beginning, but like, I do feel like it's important that as we kind of distribute our energies across things, that we're paying attention to what we show up for and what we don't um and just because trans kids are not very memorable doesn't mean you can't stick up for them, you know what I mean. Anyways, Wow, that got we

We got pretty uh. We we put on our cultural critic hat if you will, Rose I'm not a cultural critic, but you know what I will criticize is Lady Gaga wearing pleasers to every award shows. She leaves free Lady Gaga from the shackles of wearing pleases. She really in pleasers always, she always wears pleasers. I didn't know that she wore them to the BAFTAs. She looked amazing otherwise than the green velvet Ralph Lauren gown. But she's wearing them with pleasers. Like girl put on a different shoe.

He's put on a different shoe. My my stand up moment was Melanie Lynskey's acceptance speech, for which I loved, but I did see on Twitter that someone had captioned it like, oh my god, she thinked the nanny and I immediately assumed that she that meant she thanked the nanny. Fran Fine, the nanny named Fran. Well, she's she's the

SAG president. She should be thanked. Absolutely. Did you did you hear that she's maybe an anti vaccer though, Okay, I don't like we got a log off a log off, Yeah, okay, that's a wrap like somebody, you know, you thought the barbs had it hard, but the barbs the barbs do I don't know. I think we're talking about maybe like the like post Spice Girls boom of female lead films of the late nineties early off films that don't pass

the Beckdel test but feel like they do. Know. I think this, the movie that we're leading into this discussion with drop dead Gorgeous, definitely passes the Beackdel test because it's it's like only women talking about other women. Yeah, there's no romantic interests, none whatsoever, except for the guy who asked Kirsten on a date and then is killed, right, Yeah, of course of course. But even that, it's I mean,

he dies, which is very Badalian. Yeah, we say. I saw it for the first time with you at the Sinispia as we as we do. We took some you know, Italian food, some very mediocre pizza. I thought that pizza was pretty good, but it was I liked, I liked it was very small, but I liked the crunchy crunchy crest was crunchy, crispy, and also the salads were hitting divine And we don't even need salads like that. I mean, I do love I love us. I love a salad

the one with roudicio amazing, yes, creamy um. The Little Dom's. If you ever want to sponsor this podcast, we would be happy to have you, absolutely, and this little Dom just kidding. I would never pass as a dom. Boo bo oh No, that's so pathetic because I'm like the opposite of a DOM. I'm just like, I'm literally not even a sub. You're just like not they're not in the room of the things I say are with hesitation or remorse. But we did. I saw it for the

first time. I did maybe get a little more stoned than I anticipated. However, was completely which is concerning considering you were driving. I was, well, well, we should clarify it for it. I don't, you know, like to get stone and drive. But we have to tell the virgins that we are a five minute drive from the Sinispia and it's one road, a road that I walk all the time from from the Greek theater for sure, for sure, drop dead gorgeous. I can't do the whole thing in

that accent. Dropped in Gorgeous is a mockumentary, dark comedy. It is about some weird beauty companies teen pageant and it is a mockumentary about the mount Rose Pageant Mount Rose and a group of young women who are all competing to win their local beauty pageant. And the twist is that someone is killing off the competitors one by one.

First of all, this movie is packed with star power, pre eminent stars like the the pre eminent performances of some amazing stars including but not Actually, let's just get them all out of the way, Okay. So it is Kirsten Dunst is the star, and then her foil is Denise Richards. Then there is Kirsty Ali who plays Denise Richards's mom, Alison Janny who plays someone else's mom, question Mark. Alison Janny plays Kirsten Dunn's mom's best friend. M Kirston

Dunn's mom is played by Ellen Barkin icon Um. And then of course we have we have some amazing supporting cast members. Brittany Murphy plays one of the other pageant contestants, as does Amy Adams stunning Amy at us. So yeah, suffice it to say, this is an all star cast of incredible actresses, some who I would say like are more character actresses, um, and some who have truly gone on to be stars, and some who have gone on to peace scientologist, Trump supporter. Yeah, and they all really do.

You would think that with like a late nineties early odds movie, uh, one that is packed with stars like this, you wouldn't think that they're all going to give like they're kind of best performance. You're like, oh, it's early career, you have no idea what they're going to give. Every single star in this movie gives their a game and it's so like engaging and is so a fully realized character. I mean, even starting with Amy Adams, who is maybe

one of the more tertiary characters. Like her stick is that she's like comedically hot and hot and um like and very sexually active and her boyfriend and per fixed too, like she's kind of a perfect she's a cheerleader. Yeah yeah, yeah, and um, I felt like that that to me alone was such an amazing kind of like it like blew open the whole um movie but anyways to you were continuing to describe the plot. Oh, that that's pretty much it.

It's there's a beauty pageant, the competitors are being killed off one by one and yeah, that's really the plot of the whole movie. Literally killed, literally killed, and that I think, you know, we're going to talk about it later. But this is like in a line of like, you know, dark comedies, women lad dark comedies where people are killed without reason, also mockumentaries, which, um, you know, I think

this is more in line with the Christopher Guest movies. Um, you know, like Bustin Show, and that style of movie fell out of fashion and then really the mockumentary style came back in television with The Office, um, Parks and Creation, Modern Family, Abbot, Elementary, And it's I like that um in this because you know, like that format, there's many different ways to do it, where like the mockumentary is something that's never acknowledged, like it's something like Parks and

Recreation UM or like in the Office they only acknowledged it in the final season and then it became a big part of the plot. But in Drop Dead Gorgeous, like it is the whole point of it is that it is a documentary that's chronicling this beauty pageant, and that's like used very effectively and how the story is told, Like I really like all of Kirston's like asides to the crew about how she's like, you know, scared someone

trying to kill her. Yeah, and I mean not to be very mean about it, but the movie also does like inspect classism and like where like how where you come from? Effects like what kind of success you have? People?

Totally that's why that's why Amber played by Ersten Um is so invested in this pageant like a because her mom has like groomed to her entire life to win it, but also because she is um, you know, poor um and like lives in a trailer park, who works all these different jobs and like dreams of being a a news journalist um in the like like her hero Diane Sawyer, and she sees the pageant as her way to achieve

those goals. God, Diane Sawyer. What if to be a hero in these times and to be so not that now like Diane Sawyer canceled, She's not even I mean, I mean technically I hate the word, you know what

I know I do know exactly what you mean. Um yeah, basically following the Free Brittany movement, there were because she did that interview with Brittany and from that a ton of other, you know, interviews that Diane Sawyer has conducted that we're extremely misogynist and extremely exploitative and got your journalism usually in the face of like a teen a literal teen celebrity, um, holding women accountable to things that

have nothing to do with them, you know, speaking of Brittany. Um. You know, Baby One More Time came out in January of this movie came out in and I do think like those two things are very It makes a lot of sense that it's the same year because, as I said, I do think this movie is like firmly in the girl Power, Spice Girls era, where women in pop culture we're starting to have more agency and like own their sexuality and their power a little bit more right on

the brink of it too, because it's still predates like the re emergence of the sexy pop star with all the ones that all the pop stars that followed Brittany, um, but like to have it. I think that the movie really nicely toes the line of this modern Midwestern arm and these girls that really do want to be kind

of sexy bimbos or like just empowered by their own beauty. Well, it's very I think what what you're getting at is Brittany was the first of the sexy teen pop stars, because if you look at pop stars, I mean, I think the most immediate predecessor of Brittany is Madonna, and Madonna was very like, firmly a woman when she broke onto the scene, and like post Brittany, it's like Brittany Christina,

like all the girls were teenagers when they started. I feel like, I mean, my initial I'd be curious to know where what kind of do you remember the first time you saw this movie. I definitely have the DVD at some point, and this was a movie that I used to watch again and again. I think maybe I might have been a little young to see this in theaters, because I would have been eleven when it came out, and so I probably did rented a blockbuster and watched

it over and over again. Let me tell you, when we did a nursory google of other movies that came out, all of these movies are movies that I vividly remember on the shelves of blocks, just like Jawbreaker, I made about you girl interrupted the Virgin Suicides. But I'm a cheerleader. I remember seeing like The Mummy and then The mom one of my top ten favorite movies of all time, Man on the Moon, Big Daddy. What a weird like era. Yeah, it's it's funny that this, I mean this whole era

of movies. I mean, I'm not including Big Daddy in the genre of Dropped Dead Gorgeous, but just like that. But it makes sense because like if you're looking at it, like the two genders l O L there was. This was the era of the like very Broie Adam Sandler comedy, and I think movies like Dropped Dead Gorgeous, Jawbreaker cool intentions, Like are you know the other side of that? Yeah, that kind of out there SNL humor is trickling into what we called then chick flicks, you know what I mean.

Like it it felt like when we walked out of Drop Dead Gorgeous, I was like, oh, that reminded me of Heathers, and that reminded me of um when we saw Rome and Michelle's high school high school reunion. I'm Gonna pull my hair out, also at the Greek Theater.

But it something that I love about films like that, even though it's not totally my comedic taste, is how non chalant they are about just killing people off, and and how it really like the deaths in these movies are part of the humor of the film and all of the deaths are played for laughs. Yeah, exactly, yeah, very you and everyone really wait does Denise? Does Denise Richards dies in this movie? Up? Can we go line by line and talk about each of these kind of

powerhouses and where they are now? Okay, so who do we start to start with the top? Kirsten Kirsten's currently nominated for an Oscar. I think like Kirsten has had such an interesting career. You know, she started out as a child star in movies like Jumanji an Interview with a Vampire, and she worked consistently. I would say that, like, she definitely re emerged in a big way around this

time in dropped ed gorgeous in The Virgin Suicide. UM. Then she did kind of the um actress to movie star crossover with Spider Man, then kind of swung back around to making more indie films like Marie Antoinette, which was like very critically panned and a commercial flop when it came out, and then and then she kind of like went away for a while and own and like would you know, like a really impactful film every couple of years, like Melancholia, the most tire film is one

of my favorite movies. But I guess a lot of people would say that The Power of the Dog is her comeback movie in a way, which is so I mean, I do understand why culturally we're calling it that it that, but like I know that she really had anything to come back from exactly, Like I don't think, I mean outside of very girls, who Girl Girl, the Girl in the Corn, the Yeah, and I feel like the only um outside of like you know, retro kind of like

old school misogyny. I don't think there's ever been a doubt that like Kikey is an actress, you know what I mean, Like she's given us really compelling performances, even through movies that are not you know, kind of critically lauded. I mean, she should have been nominated for an Oscar for Melancholia. I mean I have never seen it, so I can't my God, you have to watch it. Movies that are there to me give that sad Like I don't know if I can know, but it's like it's

that's not that's not what it's about. It's about Oh my god, I can't even you can't. I can't crystallize it. It's like the whole point of Melancholia is like the like nihilism of being so unhappy that like tragedy like makes you happy again, makes the world beautiful again. It's a very good um movie for like the current state of the world. And and funnily enough, it was the last movie I saw before COVID happened, because I went to a screening of it. Um. What a terrible movie

to see right before in global pandemic. God. Um, yeah, Like the last normal things I did before the pandemic were see Melancolia and see celtin Diana in concert. Oh my god, that is an amazing thing to do before a global pandemic. Um. I can't remember if it was a meme or if it was an actual quote that Bernie's Anders said that his Melancholia was one of his favorite movie. He said that he really said that that is incredible taste Um, yeah, I've never seen an interview

with the Vampire. I've never seen the original Little Women. I haven't seen a lot of like kind of quintessential Kiki films. We could do, honestly, a whole episode on Kirsen don should we? I mean, I wasn't really a fan of Virgin Suicidence. I'm not actually really a Sofia Coppola person. I am She's very you, She's very I think Marie Antoinette is maybe the one film from Sophia's filmography that I think I would want wanted to rewatch is one of my top two favorite films. It's it's

tied for first place. An amazing movie, and I had a huge crush on Jason Schwartzman at the time. And it was also, as is every kid at the time was obsessed with the French Revolution, of course, but literally it's a it's a write of passage that any teenager has to be become obsessed with a French revolution at some point. You know who else is in Marie Antoinette, Jamie Dordan a k. Christian Gray, Wait, who did he? He plays Marie Antoineste lover. You know I said, I

haven't seen the quintessential KICKI films. But I actually have because I've seen Spider Man. I love Mona Lisa smile. I don't know that I would. I would count Spider Man as one of the quintessential King's definitely quintessential. I wouldn't. I would probably made the most money for I wouldn't call it essential, I would call it quintessential. Um. Obviously her peoples really were a cultural reset. Heart stayed hard.

Um probably still hard. Internal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, which another kind of like young adult right of passage, like Tumbler. I've actually never seen it. She's in that roch who was shee. She plays like Kate Winslet's friend Um, who is kind of involved in the science of the mind erasing technology. Rose, you would have never seen it, Rose,

If you love Melancolia, you actually would. I know. It's one of those movies that, like, I don't know why I've never seen it it is, and I bet you the virgins at home are screaming to get Rose to watch. I know, I think I think I just like missed it. Maybe I was like at sleepaway camp the summer that it came out or something, or like I was in a play that month, and then it's just like I

don't know, I just missed it. Well that but that movie really was a part of like hundred Days of Summer esque, like tumbler culture and like how emo romances became during that time, like Love is Dead. But something that Kiki actually does really well and a lot of these films um and in this era of film is to be a kind of romantic lead in something while still having that kind of profound sadness. Well, she Kiki is like the originator of Manic Pixie dream Girl. You think, yeah,

because wasn't Elizabeth Town where that was coined? Oh was it coined with I've never seen Elizabeth tag haven't either, But I think stands we've never seen Elizabeth. I think I think Kirston like is the blueprint of Manic Pixie dream Girl. Interesting. I mean, I don't know if she's the blueprint, but she definitely is in the canon. I think she is the blueprint. Who else would It's like it's Kiki, Zoe Deschanelle. I don't know who else Elizabeth Town?

Right mind, I didn't I didn't doubt you. I just did doubt me. And you always doubt me. Well, I didn't doubt you. You said it with doubt, no, UM, but I believed in myself. Bring it on. Um also in that era of movies. Anyways, we that the point is Kiki, because what a career she has had. Oh my god. All we're saying is that the fact that the idea, that the notion that Kiki is making a quote unquote comeback please like she has never left. She has always been beloved by both the industry and like

her audience, and it's way overdue. In my opinion, I feel like she You would have thought she would have gotten something for one of the coupla movies by then, or has she been nominated even was her first? Um, Someone who I would say made a comeback, um, not quite the artistic one that that Kirsten made was Denise Richards, who, gosh, it was very famous around the time that this film came out. Um as an actress. You know, she did dropped of gorgeous, she did wild things, she was a

bond girl. And then she was most famous for her you know, tabloid appearances because of her very bitter divorce from Charlie Sheen. So she very much went away for a long time and then made her comeback as a cast member Old Housewives of Beverly Hills for two seasons, the first one which was like boring, and then the second one was so iconic, one of the best seasons

of Beverly Hills. Wow. I also felt like it was one of my favorite Housewives seasons ever is season ten and I remember reading that most people didn't like it, or maybe maybe I'm misremembering it. Think you're misremembering it, because I think everyone recognized that there was a very

iconic season. It is incredible. The fact that like the crooks of this season hinges on the fact that Denise hates gay people so much that there's actually nothing that could be more offensive or slanderous than being accused of having like a same sex affair is like bonkers and absolutely whack. One of my favorite parts of the season, though, was when Denise really like reminded both the women and the audience that she is so much more famous than any of any any woman who has ever been on

a Real Housewives franchise before. She is Denise fucking Richard. She has been on the cover of every magazine like she is a star in a way that none of the other women have ever been or will ever be. And obviously all the women are they're threatened by anybody that comes even close to who who they are, So they are obviously very threatened by Denise. But I think it's actually one of Kyle Richard's like ugliest seasons because and I think it's because of exactly what you're naming that.

I think that Kyle, who had been the Queen Bee after Lisa vander Pump left, felt her kind of place jostled, and she came for Denise about like the most random things about like being like about being in full glam and like, you know, not being the woman no she made fun of. She kind of came for Denise along with de ret she was making fun of. She was coming for Derea for being late to showing up in

glamor whatever. And then on top of that, because Denise was defending to read, she was like, well, Denise, you do it too, and blah blah blah. You were wearing no makeup and jeans last season and all of a sudden you're in full gland, Like who are you really exactly? That's why it's such a Also Lisa Ritta came for Denise and they have like a very long friendship. I do think that Oh You're so angry. It's one of the best, one of the best line readings on Housewives ever.

And the reason that line reading is so good is because you can hear her lips on it. Oh You're so angry, Denise. It's getting a little Sean Connery, but like it really is. It is one of Lisa Renna's best moments. It is maybe one of Brandy's best moments. It is Teddy Mellencamp's only good moment and like all of Beverly Hills, and I feel like it was like among Erica's last like good moments. You know, Like Erica was really iconic in this season because she went up

to bat against Denise Richard's psycho. I thought Erica was very boring that season. Oh well, you're misremembering that because I'm not. No, no, she literally was the person to go up to bat to Denise Richard's psychopath, misogynist husband, conspiracy theorist. Do you remember this guy. He's a lightning with a huge dick, and he's like Gordon, like like

comically gorgeous. Um and he was like spewing all these bizarre conspiracy theories that they're like random dinners and brunches and stuff, and and then on top of that just like openly mocking like women to their faces. And then Erica told him off. It was her one good moment that season. I totally she was very boring. Well, you well, your experience of Erica is very tainted, I would say, and Erica is one of used to be one of

my favorite housewife. No. I think she just had a very boring season last season, and this season she redeemed herself by you know, you're having people out of their money. I don't know if we would call that redemption. I mean she redeemed herself in terms of being compelling reality TV Materialkay, let's talk about some of the other dropped dead gorgeous stars there. So we said Amy Adams, who who knows if she'll ever win an oscar at this point, Um,

Brittany Murphy, Rest in peace, God, Brittany. I guess she was beloved because she was in these kind of like Zinger comedies. Well, she also kind of did everything she did comedy and drama, and I think was her last just look a look at look at this year that she she was in Dropped Dead, Gorgeous and Girl Interrupted. In the same year, both her and Angelina Jolie's breakout film was Girl Interrupted. Yeah, Kirsty Ali, that is if you didn't catch her before, she's the scientologists we were

talking about. Yeah. Um, I was going to say a fall from Grace, but she didn't really do anything. Yeah, she did. She was huge in the nineties. Huge in the nineties, but like with what it takes to Yeah, and she was a huge movie star else um Jenny Craig, which was like a big She had a TV show, Veronica's Closet, and she also did um fat actress. I think she was. She was a very big star no longer. It's funny how you like are like she wasn't that famous because you, like fully were not aware of what

was happening in pop culture. No, I mean like she hasn't done anything since then, I know, and that's why it was a fall. No, but if she's already fallen, As my point, do you know what I mean? No, I don't know what I mean. It's not important. It's not important. Um. My point is she was very famous. Let's just say that she was very famous and now she's famous for supporting the insurrection. Was was she at

the Capital along with a long dad? Well, like at the end of Drop Jed Gorgeous, she breaks out of prison and like joins some kind of like radical group and it is giving very much January six of the Capital, Well, I think she's tweeted support of the writers or something

like that. Anyways, it doesn't matter. Alison Janny icon when you when you talked earlier about character actresses, like some went on, she is the character actress, even though she is always Alison Janey, always and everything, including some of her best recent work, to my mind is Ma, which she is in very briefly, but she's in my totally forgot she's she's Octavia's boss at the veterinary clinic, who she murders. What is she doing there, Janny? What is

she doing there? Wow? I forgot about that. I mean, but she was wonderful as well. I mean. The thing about this movie specifically, and this era of movies beyond the dark humor, was line readings. And Alison Janny knows how to give a line reading. This movie is eminently quotable. Yeah, and I can't quote any of it, but you could. Yeah, but I won't because that's annoying. But it is. I think it's incredibly well and directed and acted. Triple threat.

Did you have Were you ever in any contests or pageants or anything where you had to compete in high school? I did a lot of theater competitions, competitions. Okay, tell me more so we I went to an art school. I was involved in a lot of theater, and we used to go to um like both local and state competitions where we would do like scenes or musical numbers

or like traveling productions of our main stage place. And I was in some I guess what you would say, we're good ones that won awards, and also some very bad ones. I this is every time we learn more about each other's past is stupid. How much it parallels. I was in show choir national and regional competitions. Did

you know this? Yeah, you've said so before, I have. Okay, so our uniform for show choir, imagine this me husky jeans, girl, black slacks, white tuxedo shirt, blue bedazzled sparkly vest, blue bedazzled bowtie, blue bedazzled cumber Bund. I think you need to bring this look back the cumber Bund, mama. And let me tell you. Let me tell you when we got to like the kind of regional championship or whatever, and our show choir took a bus to Missouri. Do you want to know what song we opened up with?

What the song that we killed it with? Just imagine, like you know, as any show choir starts, it's everyone's kind of facing the back before we turn around, and so you know, we're all facing the back and right, and then we turn around and we do kind of like you West Side Story kind of kick out in a snap, and then we go, um coming out. So you better get this potty sad not putting exclamation point, Well, she doesn't have the she she up on a trapeze somewhere.

Pink was an incredible vocals always from the ceiling. Wait, wait, we actually have to talking about the fact that Pink has since then taken the exclamation point out of her name, So we need to talk about that. Yes, along with Panic at the disco, they have both kind of d exclamation pointed if you will. Yeah, isn't like what's the exclamation point? Shame or do you think it's like an s c O thing. It might be, because I feel like they were both big enough for it didn't really

matter by the time they changed it. But it's like taking the dollar sign out of her name. It literally is like that. But Kesha said that was more about her trying to grow as an artist. I think Pink and Panic had like a kind of weird shame around it. Um, this is not I will say. As much as I love Dropped Dead Gorgeous, it's not my favorite movie about a beauty paget because my favorite movie about a beauty pageant is Miss Congeniality of course. Have you seen MS

Congeniality of course? Yeah? Yeah, I think God, I feel like I watched it with my mom, but also rewatched both of those movies in Quarantine. MS Congeniality is a very trans movie. Okay, I need your analysis on that. Grace Hart is a very mask presenting FBI agent who gets force them literally against her will, and there is like a lot of discussion about like gender presentation and like her identity as you know, a mask of center woman. And it's just like that aska of center woman. I

love that. Um, And then like I just think that the moment where she walks out of the airplane hangar to Mustang Sally is one of the most trans moments that's ever been captured on film. Oh yeah for sure. Yeah, yeah, hair fantastic. I got nothing on that. And m Benjamin Bratt, who is her loveagees that movie is definitely a chaser. You think. We'll be back next week with the discussion about America's Next Top Model with Travell Anderson. Do you want to be on top? Fran I mean you and

I both know that. Um, I'm not always on top, but you know, sometimes if the spirit calls, I want to be on top. You want to be on top? Letting me on top? Um? So I would hope that all of you out there have at least some cultural awareness of Top Model. But if you want to go back and watch some in preparation, there's plenty of compilation videos on YouTube. Definitely at least watch some makeovers, you

know those at the moment. Tell us what you want us to talk about next, whether it's a show, a book, a phenomenon in culture. We want to hear from you. You can call to confess at three to three pennants that's three to three seven three six two six two three. I am your co host Rose Damn You. You You can find me online in various places at Rose Damn You and I'm Fran Toronto. You can find me at friends,

squish co, anywhere you like. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen, and please leave us a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. We love hearing what you have to say, even um if what you have to say is that if you still have a tumbler, you'll like this podcast, which t h Like a Virgin is I heart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and Nikky Etour Until next week. Bye,