Xena Was A Warlord (feat. Macy Rodman)

your next memoir? That? Or actually that sounds like a Lata tel Ray album. Someone I was aware of it thought was maybe, no, that's a that's a song on a Lata album. Someone I was aware of parentheses and thought um. And someone I've also long been aware of and have always hot his count is Macy Rodman, who's here today to talk with us all about Laura Croft tomb Raider and the woman who embody Audi Audi to

her Angelina Jolie. And this is we like we can't play this down a trenifestation, okay, Like Macy is god of podcasting and like we in podcast communities adore everything that is nympho wars so to like have macye on the show. Hello, this is come true. Yes, if you aren't familiar with Macy, she's an incredible performer, musician and co host of nympha Wars, the best and only podcast to ever exist, the only podcast that should exist, including this one. Um, so we will this is the last

episode of this podcast. We will be ending it after this so that only Nympho Wars continues. But we're so happy to have me see with us today to talk about all things tomb Raider and Angelina Jolie. Because this is like a virgin the show we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm dam and I'm fran Toronto. Rose, Rose, you've know that we have some newses out because do you want to know what happened to me last night?

What happened to you last night? And X, who I have not spoken to are seen in years, texted me and said I miss you. Oh oh yeah. It's It's News's Alpu season for sure, And like it's so funny because I got the text and it was like cinematic. I got the text. And you know, when I have like breakups with people that like waste my time, I put next to their contact do not text in all caps.

I know, I've looked through your phone. But the thing is that you don't follow your own rules frequently text people that you write do not text next Okay, frequently, but not always, because sometimes it does work, and sometimes, like I have, I have been in the car going to change the music on your phone and I'll say, you have a text from do not parentheses, do not text? Why are they texting you? Yeah? Yeah, yeah? Why are

you in conversation with them? Yeah? And this is one of those scenarios where I was like, I know exactly what's happening because we hadn't talked in so long, and Rose I dragged him immediately. I said, I like, he sent me a bunch of things that was like, oh, I want to visit you in l a blah blah blah. And I responded, I said, so you've been listening to the new scissah you And he said he was like, okay, accurate, drag.

You got his ass. But that's the thing is, like SAYSSA really does make music for like people that are experiencing breakups and like girls with intrusive thoughts like that is the boss. Yes, I'm definitely more in the second camp. I will say I have been loving the album since I listened to it. It's not necessarily making me feel anything, but I think that's just because I'm like dead inside. But I am vibing to it immensely and haven't been

able to listen to anything else all weekend. Yeah. I also like can't turn it off, like I am addicted. I love love. It's like everything that I wanted out of her, honestly, and you know, like they're and some things that I wasn't expecting to get from her, like the whole like pop punk vibe of it, the the F to F of it all, which is is that female to female? No, maybe it sounds like a fiction F T F trans Um. I used to tell my friend who did steroids that he was an M to

M trans man. Don't cancel me, Um, that's not not not true. It's not not true. Um. Yeah, I I really wasn't expecting that on the album. I guess I didn't really know what to expect, So I'm just happily receiving this album. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly. But what I meant to like, what I was trying to say, it's just like that I'm grateful, honestly that she doesn't release music that often, Like there's a preciousness now to the

work of Acissa album that I can cherish. That is, I think something that's really great about anticipating someone for me, someone like Sissa, And you know, I'm less likely to pick it apart or get mad about certain things because I'm just grateful to have Sissa um as opposed to like another artist that releases, you know, an album every other year or whatever. Yeah, I mean it is. It is interesting that both Sissa and Lana released new music

in the same week. Um Lana released her the first single of her new album, did you Know There's a Tunnel Under Ocean Boulevard, which I love. And these are two artists who I would say have like somewhat similar sensibilities, like not necessarily make the same kind of music, but make thematically similar like sad girl music but are yeah but are but are almost girls with intrusive thoughts and fat asses. But they are almost diametrically opposed in the

way that they release music. Because a Lana is super prolific. You know, she releases an album every two years, if not more, and has since the start of her career, and there is a real sense that like she is constantly making art and wanting to immediately put it out

and like has that relationship with her fan base. And I don't know if it's because she feels pressured to or if that's just she just is producing on that level where she wants to be constantly sharing it, whereas someone like Scissa seems to really want to be like perfecting it and only putting on something when it's like

really is completed and cohesive. Um. And I mean also we don't know what the whole like business side of it is behind the scenes, but like obviously there has been this long running joke about how we're always waiting on this as an album. She had said something last week about how a bunch of people who she wanted to feature on the album didn't turn in their verses on time, and I saw someone tweet like they probably thought they had a lot longer before they needed to

way we could features. I'm sure, but I'm glad to read it. I'm glad we got the ones that we did because the Phoebe song is so good, so fucking cool. I I loved it. Wait, I don't want to lose the thread. But I have to ask you, does Lana have a fat ass or does she just make music for girls with asses. I think she makes music for both girls with fat asses and girls with flat asses. Yeah, that's what I was saying. I was thinking more flat, but you know, I could see girls with flat asses

who want to have fat asses on the Phoebe song. Okay, I already told you I'm not going to tell the versions because it was too sacred of an experience. But I had like an out of body, like near spiritual experience with this song, driving in my car with something that happened to me. Um, I was shook by how when Phoebe's verse drops, it's almost like a new It sounds like just it drops in like a Phoebe song,

Like it's so crystallinely clearly just Phoebe. And I was shocked by that, honestly, that it wasn't like run through the mill of like sciss is kind of like layered you know, landscaping production. Um, until there's like a little voice distortion at the end. But I loved it. I mean it was really unexpected. Yeah, Drobbes verse, Phoebe's verse does sounds like it could be right off Punisher. Yeah, and that's what I like that when an artist brings another artist on and lets them do what they do.

You know. I actually felt a lot like that when Um Midnights came out and Lana was on Snow on the Beach, Like, I think she was perfectly utilized in a way that is very true to who Laana is as an artist. And yeah, I do. I do think Sissa used or or collaborated with Phoebe in the same way. Um. You know, some my favorite songs um are obviously the Phoebe song r F to F. I also really like Gone Girl, Um not just for the you know, amazing amy of it all, So I think it's it's just

like a really fun, pretty song. What are some of your faves so far? I mean, I do love the Phoebe song. I love love language, Scissa sampling herself like it was so good, And then like the orchestra after she samples herself in that song, it's like, so, I just like I appreciate, you know, much like the way she used Phoebe. Scissa like sees like features and sees so many different she takes inspiration from so many different genres and like the way she creates this kind of

tapestry of music. I think it's like over and over again, so captivating and so a genre right, Like she fus with like multiple genres within her own and it's almost as if she used Phoebe as like not used that's like I don't want it to be like, you know, pejorative, but it's almost like Phoebe was like an instrument, like a beautiful instrument to lay within the canvas of her work. And I found that over and over again with stuff

like um with Gone Girl. Definitely, I think F to F is like another moment where I was just like damn, like you really can explore all genres and uh and or I'm actually forgiveless where she like did the Vespertine like the York sample, taking the little choir from the background. I was like, damn, this is like so good and

I love just thinking about Scissla listening to York. That's what I'm saying, Like you know that their work is in conversation, like regardless of like how far away you might see, they're like respective like art forms, Like their work is in conversation and you can I don't know. I just appreciate Sissa on the production level. UM, and I have also been like day one, siss A stand like sweet November sis A stand for sure. Wait, I don't want to, you know, non consensually. Uh uh make

you listen to any White Lotus discourse? But like can I I I exist on the internet. You know I haven't watched this season. I'm not going to. I just I just don't care. Um. But because I haven't watched the season, I would love to get, like your t L d R what you thought of it as a whole, since I'm not going to watch it, and then I truly never want to hear about it again until you

know the next season inevitably comes out. By the way, spoilers for this season of The White Lotus if you haven't watched and want to or um, haven't watched the finale yet. Something that I think was super fascinating and like a joy to watch that I like, honestly, it's a conversation I'm not saying anywhere else. Is like the function of like sex work in this season, Like have you been hearing at all about like the kind of two sex worker characters in the show I have the

phrase white Lotus muted on Twitter for the reason. Okay, so I mean there are two central characters also have ava max muted. Oh. I would that would maybe be fun one day for us to go through and share some of our muted I have ava max muted on Spotify. Unfortunately, UM, I don't know what my muted Twitter words are. I'd have to check. Um probably elon um. Okay, so white Lotus, Um. There are these two sex workers that are kind of

central characters integral to the plot. In fact, they're actually like the driving force behind a lot of pin plot points throughout the show. And I would say there are I think four sex workers total that come in and out of the series and function some way within the plot and Rose so many different sex workers are hired or engaged with, like on a professional level, like for their profession, and each character who hires a sex worker does it for like a completely different reason, a completely

different motive, a completely different world. And some of these characters are people that you would never either wouldn't expect to use, use, or engage with sex work or hated sex workers at the beginning of the series, and so like I just like honestly thought that was like interesting to see how sex workers like move lives, like move characters and move plat points, and they were kind of the fan favorite characters like I'm sure you've seen you're

seeing like pictures of them with a little like Bob or whatever, the girl with the I have kind of trained my brain to immediately identify white later screenshots and just scrawl past. Speaking of sex work, Um, I saw the menu this weekend and really liked it, and I

you have you haven't seen it yet, right, No? I have, So I won't spoil anything for you because you do want to see it, Yes, I do, Okay, So I want you to go into it without spoilers, obviously, but I want to put a pin in this and come back and talk about what you think about the way sex work is depicted in the menu because it is um but but generally, I really liked the movie and had a lot of fun watching it and thought it

was super funny and like at least somewhat incisive. So we'll, you know, we'll catch up on that when when you've seen it. Look, I'm here for Anna Taylor Joy and Nicholas Holt and Judith lte Judith like kind of criminally under used in the film, which is which is very unensembly, but she could have had She was kind of one note through the entire movie and could have had much more to do. But I still enjoyed it, and I

also enjoyed um. I saw it at Lincoln Center at the Lincoln Center AMC with my other It was the first time I had been to an AMC since I saw Tar and I was just so happy to see Nicole again. I missed her. I was the only one who applauded at the end of her of her monologue, Listen Virgins, Rose Phoebe and I have created a survey, a listener survey just for you, and we are not harvesting your data. This is literally just so you can, you know, shape the show and make it even more

fun than it already is. And we have loved the responses we've got so far. Rose has peeked in you peeked in the responses? Yes, yes, I I read through most of them. Uh that at the end of the first day the survey was out and I was very honestly no homo touched by how many people responded to the survey, how really thoughtful your responses were and how much you love the show? Um, it's so really keep them coming. Some of y'all love the show almost too much.

I was kind of like, Okay, where's the negative feedback? Like, come on, no, I don't say that I don't know. Please don't send us negative feedback. But we do want ideas, and we love the ideas that we've been seeing so far. So click the link in the show notes to you know, fill out like a three minute survey and uh, you might win a virgin hat and who doesn't want a virgin hat? But more important, you are part of a collective.

You are participating in an incredible community. That is, you're you're rocking the Vote Yes, vote now, as RuPaul says, as RuPaul makes drag Queens say at the end of every episode of Drag Race, vote to to to to the moon, the moon, to the moon, Turn the mound may mean Macy, are you? I feel like I do know this about you? But are you a big gamer? Um? So I go through phases um where I am inspired

to game, and then I will take it. I'll like really like binge out on it, and then I'll take a break for a while, but um yeah, I go through I go through seasons of gaming. Okay, do you have a particular like style of game that you like. Not that I'm like super literate on them, but I feel like they're like they're sort of like the tried and true, you know, models of game I love. I love you trying to like parse your way through like

video game any language. It's actually incredible because Rose like doesn't know I wasn't really I'm not. I'm not a gamer, but like I know, like the my my main experience with video games is like this one Wizard of Oz Nintendo game that I used to play when I was little, and then um like creating uh slurs in some kind of wrestling game. Of course they were always always women, and like as soon as the actual game had to start, I lost interest. I was only so, were you ever

into sims because that's a big I was. But like, I mean, this is so kind of cliche or becaues

It's not. Maybe I'm just like a twisted person, but all I would do is use the hack you like, rosebud Um, like build the house and then kill the sims as soon as yeah yeah, and then like sometimes you could add in nudity, so it's like rich nude death like didn't I didn't know about that, but okay, So so what I like is either a third person action game which is your classic like tomb Writer or g t A where you see the person running, because I too love like a create I create a sim

type vibe where you're putting a character together and you to see it. Um. I don't do first person shooters. UM. I like an open world, but that's not necessarily um required. But yeah, I leve a level creator or if they have provided a County Little Um main character, that's great too. And two is not the ultimate County main character, but Ms Laura herself exactly the original original since so oh

that was gonna be. My question is how long tomb Rat has been around, because it feels like she's been with us forever, and in a way, she kind of has. Did you start Did you start playing tomb Rat when it first came out? Yes, well no, I think I started at tomb ratar to, which came out in nineties seven. Um, and my mom was a babysitter and so we would when she put the kids down for a nap, we would like play tomb Rater and that was like my

intro to tomb Rater. And we played all the PS one games into the PS two games and that was like, that was how I came to tom Rater. Did you get to dress Laura Croft up? Or? Was she was her outfit kind of fixed because she has such a defined look. M it was. It was fixed from I think one too, tom Rat one, tom Rat three. It was pretty much all of that one outfit except there

were there was like a wetsuit. There was like a cold version with like a bomber jacket and then hard through not box exactly exactly, no matter what huge tits ass out legs out like the whole bit for all that like Spellun games, she was doing literally everywhere that she she was she was totally impractical. Um and then there was like yeah, they got like a she got like a matrix suit at one point, probably after the matrix came out, like they were just like throw that

in there. And then now the most recent game she's like ari I like very practical and really sucks. Not not ari I. It is it's giving ls. Yes, it's they've like it's giving Paragon Sports it's giving, like it's giving all of that. It's like really a bummer. So is his lacross thing, Like is she a superhero or is she just like extremely rich like Batman? She's Batman. She's Batman. Okay, So she just has like lots of training and tech and she is an adventurer. Yes, her

backstory is that she's a Pulitzer Prise winning photo journalist. No, you're kidding me. No, I'm not joking. And her fun other Instagram. It's huge on Instagram. Yeah, she's done so many, not geo covers in the game. She actually invented Instagram. Now, her father's name is like Rupert Cross. I forget her dad's name, but he was like an Indiana Jones type like before she was born. And so a lot of the games are like like Batman is like my dead

daddy who died on the in the field. I'm continuing his legacy and taking all these photos like sometimes like restoring artifacts, sometimes like taking an artifact. It's like that it's all this stuff that has to do with her personal lore and like the like things that she learned from her father, and like, yeah, it's it's very Batman. Yeah, is she um respectful of the cultures that she's um the tombs she's rating. I mean, I might be biased,

but I think my overall memory is yes. Because the in the original like plans for the game, she was supposed to be like a hired gun who was like stealing things for these mega rich people. But in the one that actually came out, she's like a lone operator or she's like often restoring things or like correcting things or stopping people from stealing artifacts that would change the course of history. Um, but she does have like a

ship ton of artifacts like at her house. Yeah, I feel I feel like I feel like it's there's a fine there's a fine line there. She's maybe she's maybe giving like um Xena Warrior Princess a little in which like Zena's whole thing was, you know, she was like making up for being having been a warlord. So Laura Croft has some she's done some questionable things, and now she's got a little bit of a she's got a karma. Is my boyfriend. She's like, I'm restoring all these stolen

artifacts that were stolen by me. Yeah, it's me, Hi, I am the problem. It's me. I did not know that Zena was a warlord. That's actually crazy, but honestly, it's called Zena Warlord, warhawk. Imperialist princess um Xena climate change denier turned to activist princess, yeah, like a little and is Greta is Greta Tunberg. But I don't, Mazie, I don't think you're being biased. I'm just I'm willing

to subscribe to to the belief that, you know. Tomb Raider was like the kind of ethical response to Indiana Jones, because I do feel like Indiana Jones, like when we look at it now, like everyone's always like, oh my god, it's a problematic and you're colonizer or whatever, and it's all about the stolen of artifacts and like and then Tom Reader was like, but I'm a girl, and yeah, yeah, I think that they and I think they attempted that but maybe didn't do it with like the deftist hand,

and like in the New One, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. In the New Ones, they like, um, they they're really you can tell that they really are like trying to be careful with that line and like she's like doing research, she's like she's so weird. In the New Game, she's like talk now, she's not well in the movie. In the Alicia of the Candor movie, she's a fucking bike

messenger who then lives rich. How it's also not Alicia Vickender who, Oh my god, don't she's She's in The Danish Girl, right, yes, which has never been any redman as. But but why does it all come back to the Danish Girl. I feel like we've brought it up several times on this podcast. I think she won the Oscar for the Danish Girl to like everyone she did she did. Um so brave of her to appear in a movie about Danish people. I would love to hear while we're

on the movies. Actually, so I've seen I I don't know if I've seen the tomb Raters sequel, but I have seen the o G and I have seen the Atlicia vit Kender one. Okay, well, speaking of Danish, speaking of Danish people, and the tomb Rater's sequel. Um. The person who directed the tomb Raters sequel's name is um Jandabant, and he also directed Speed and Twister, which I did not Wow. What an incredible filmography. I love Speed and I love Twister yeah, and then he did Laura Croft, Colin,

Tomb Writer, Dash, The Cradle of Life. Okay, So I remember the movies as being kind of magical, maybe in a way that the games weren't. I don't know. The games were always pretty magical. They always had it always got um you like later in the game there was always it like was revealed that there was a supernatural element happening. But yeah, the movie from the Job is like Illuminati, um the like it's like the changing of the celestial Like I don't know, I don't know what. Yeah,

we're talking about the plot. We're talking about the plot as if it mattered to anyone in this film or like anyone who watches it was no, no, I just the only thing I really remember was that Angelia and Julie's real life dad, who she was a strange from, played her dad in the movie, John John White. Yeah. Yeah, and it was there like it was their first like, um really, it was like their reunion was on this movie. And then I think right after the movie they like

went back to being Yeah. He was like, well I did it for the check and now I'm out. I love that. Like everyone involved was like, yeah, this kind of like healing reparative, like reunion of two estranged souls is going to come together? On Laura Croft to writer, right, what a space to work through your trauma? Like, come on, that's probably superstar celebrity family like therapy. Like what the fuck? Well?

I mean that this was when did the first two movie come out two thousand and one, and then number two came out in two thousand three, So this was peak Angelina being like most famous actress in the world. Yeah, and so it but also like was this kind of like the beginning of her sort of um like re contextualization as someone who was like a little bit more serious And maybe that's why the dad reconciliation happened. Maybe yeah, because it's like I'm I'm a big box office star.

Now I'm not just this wild child who's swapping vials of blood and making out with my brother. I have my ship together. I mean, Tomb Writer at the time was the biggest grossing film with a female headlining lead. Um and then like the but the like Them DVD sales like doubled after that, so it was a huge phenomenon. Um. So, I mean, honestly, I can see John voit signing on for the jack. It's like it was huge, you know.

I am so fascinated by just like the how big it became immediately, Like it's like I'm looking back on like I don't really I didn't really remember much about it because I don't think I watched them as a kid. But like you just think, like, oh, like this, it's just a franchise that is like in large part, you know about breasts and in small part about a lot of other things, but like guns yeah, yeah, and guns were guns yeah, but something that like I I felt

like and I I could be totally fudging this. I'm the true virgin of this conversation, so I have seen a few things. But I actually didn't even know that Angelina Jolie made out with her brother, which I will want context on in a second, like when I did not know when it comes to like her in this role, though, I do feel like she took something that's like really shallow.

I think she does this with a lot of her roles, right, It's like she takes something that's really shallow, like she takes a bimbo archetype or something that just doesn't have a lot of depth to it. And she kind of adds this like darkness and this ad assery and becomes something that like both men and women like want to

like consume and look at. Yeah, she is a BiCon and I think she does that with a lot of her roles and that that's like really shown in something that is like something as kind of trash as tomb raader Um She'll say trash, but you know, yeah, like how dare you? Um? The fan base loved the movies because it gave the it gave she had gravitas and she did she she like didn't play it as not hot, but she did. She played it more as like the focus was the kind of Indiana Jones aspect of that character.

She's like primarily a photojournalists, like primarily like the gun woman and like and interested in like this the like um mission at hand. You know. Um, So what was your when you first watched the movies? Like what was your impression like going into I just we haven't even gotten to talk about like your journey with it or like whether it's like you're analogy what you liked about it then or what you like about it now or I just would love to hear about your relationship to

like lac so I like I immediately. I mean, I would have loved it even if it was awful, And I mean I've watched it a lot over the years. I don't think it's an awful movie. It's it's pretty like standard, but it's it's not bad. But I my like most distinct memory of seeing it in the theater with my mom was there's a scene where Daniel Craig comes out of the shower with his towel low slung on his hips, and I got the biggest like pre boner, like heart palpitations and not like visible boner, but like

I was just like, what's happening? And and I have so much though that I had to tell my mom afterwards. I was like, I feel really because we were like Christian or whatever. I was like, I've I don't know what's happening, and I feel really bad, and she's like, oh, it's it's fine. Like nudity can make you feel weird, it's not even it's like girls shirtless shirtless is nudity when you're a Christian. Let's be clear, like that, it's true.

It's true. There's wrist as nudity. I remember really enjoying it. But I think it was because of the of the like girl boss nous of it all, Like just that wasn't a lot of like female lead stuff at the time.

Um and a strong woman. Yeah, and I, oh, you know what I'm recalling now is that I did have a Lara Croft action figure, which one I don't I think it was must have been one of the earliest ones because like late I think, maybe even before the movie came out, because I think I went into um the store that it's what what game Stop is now, but it used to be called something else before that. Oh yeah, yeah, or at least it wasn't my mall.

And I remember, like so at that point in my childhood, girl action figures were what I was allowed to have instead of dolls because I couldn't have dolls obviously, because you know, not for boys. Um and so I would find the most fem action figure possible. And I think when I bought that Lara Croft action figure, I didn't even know what tomb Writer was, but I was just like, Oh, here's this like hot bitch that I can play with,

and I bought her. Yeah, I mean that she is like a perfect um a perfect like mirror in that way, because it's like she's so cunt. It's not so porny that you like feel weird about it, but it is porny enough that like a parent can look at it and be like, oh, this kid is like horny for this doll. That's why. That's why this kid wants it. Yeah, he loves her jugs or and it's like yes, but like not because the way you're thinking about it exactly exactly. So she's she like there's a lot to like be

reflected upon Lara Croft. You know, yes, and she is she is, but a vessel because like she it doesn't sound like she has much of a personality. Is that rude of me to say? I know it's not rude of you to say, but um, she is reserved, and I maybe it's just because I've spent so much time with the games. It's like she's cold. But I do

think she has a personality. And that's why I like the new games are such a travesty to me, because while the gameplay is good and the graphics are good and everything, she used to have these like one liners where she would like do a somersault into a cave and like shoot a guy and be like sucks to be don't like not that, but it was like it's like she had this like May West thing going on where she was like sexy and and violent or like, oh my god, who played Austin Powers Dad Michael Caine,

Michael Caine, Michael Caine. She had this like kind of like Michael Caine, like I don't know, it was like this weird um yeah, one liner are kind of like May West Samantha thing going on, but like with violence.

So that's such a personality. And now I'm just imagining Samantha Jones as Laura Croft like that's that's why she's not on and just like that, she's pivoted to being a photojournalist adventurer, and I am unfortunately imagining her like like going into a cave stealing like a thousands year old artifact and going oh oh, you know kind of like likes like ceremonial dag, why don't you stab me?

Oh yeah, um yeah, I I think that like honestly thinking about like her her character as an archetype or like what the the video game world that she belonged to before that, right, like Final Fantasy Street Fighter Mortal Kombat or whatever, which was as kind of Rose was saying at the beginning of this conversation, like you know, big booby girls with long hair, maybe too words, and they're wearing like basically like three pieces of fabric, you

know what I mean. And that's like what you know, maybe part of like who she was in the legacy of And I feel like, I don't know, seeing her on screen or like seeing what like Angelina brought her, uh like made it into something that was like I don't know, like that we could engage with, like beyond like I guess what like the male gaze was on it, not to be like totally like you know, intellectual about it, but like it was just fun like and I think that like we can go all like a lot of

people can be like, oh, it's like so girl bosster, like now that Lesha Vikander wears like ari I and has her Camella pot sponsorship or whatever, like it's like feminists, but it actually is, like it's not even about that. It's just about like the magnanimous nous that like made her character like human and three dimensional. And I don't think that really exists in a lot of video game

characters prior. Yeah, and especially if you're not a gamer, you're just seeing this image of this like this girl that because previously in video games, it's like the girl was always like you know, it's like kind of like nonverbal, just like tits um. But like Angelina really like breathed life for especially people who hadn't interacted with the games and like gave it this like rounder um understanding and like brought our culture. Um yeah, because this was also

I was just looking it up. Angelina won her Oscar in two thousand because um, girl interrupted came out so like she was sort of like at her peak of being a serious actress coming into this franchise, like kind of the way that we see with franchises now, we're like Marvel picks up all of these like big stars to come in and like make the like shooting lasers at each other seem a little bit more wait wady Um.

So I guess Angelina was kind of, you know, the at the forefront of that movement totally, and like this movie like really had a big impact on her life because it was shot in Cambodia and that was where she started like her whole like activism career is based around Cambodia, which is like um, but for better words, I don't know, like there have been stories about her being kind of weird with the people in Cambodia, but she did that documentary, um not without my father or something.

I forget what like you know about um about the children in Cambodia. But um. But yeah, it's like I think this movie like really like defined her career and her personal life in a lot of ways, which is interesting because her career, I think so many parts of her career have defined the way she's viewed, like made like more than more than I think any of the big like movie stars who and and like that's that's such a part of the conversation now that like we

don't have movie stars anymore. But Angelina like went through so many different eras you know, she was like the bad girl who was like fucking Billy Bob Thornton and the limo on the way to the Gone sixty seconds from here, and then she was like the action star and the activist, and then she was Branngelina. She was you know the like home Wrecker turned like a list couple. Um, and now I mean everything is so consumed by like what's going on between her and Brad Pitt and you

know the like abuse allegations. Yeah, it really is awful. But she like she has really lived so many public lives it's crazy. Yeah, it's very Elizabeth Taylor. She's got

a very Taylor thing going on. What are like some of the like similarities to you, because I actually don't know that much about Elizabeth Taylor either, unfortunately, I think honestly, I mean, Elizabeth Taylor was kind of defined by her husband's and her weight, like for better or worse, Like that's kind of that was kind of the story during while she was alive. It's like Joan River, that's like what Joan Rivers would talk about when she talked about

Elizabeth Taylor. But she, yeah, she has she she has all these like visual eras you could say like Elizabeth Taylor seventies like caftans, you could say Elizabeth Taylor like sixties, which is like a defined like makeup style or like earlier is like cat on a hot tin roof. And then like her later career where she's like this fabulous old woman and she's got the fragrances and and she

does like little weird fun project like the flint Stones. Yes, yeah, I still like maybe like Elizabeth Taylor and Angelina Jolie, like they both have this kind of like darkness right, Like it's like it's like a darkness. It's like, um

a gumption. Um, you like understand that a lot of their characters are like maybe a little a little tortured or like have been through some show or maybe a little bit of a woman on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and yet their characterization still has this like impermeability, like really unfazed, really untouchable. Like I think of Angelina Jolie as like someone who plays a lot of indestructible characters. Um yeah, and I guess yeah, I kind of now I'm I see like the kind of lineage I had

a triumph over struggle. Yeah, it's like always coming out on top or always like reinventing yourself, um, despite like everyone kind of being against you or like putting you into some like weird box that you're not consenting to be in, and um coming out as like a movie

star at the end of it. You know. And I also had no idea when I was like reading before the record I had no idea that she like had a psychotic break when she was like, you know, I think nineteen or twenty, and that was like part of the reason she took on the Girl Interrupted role. Did you know that rule? I had no idea. I did not know that, although I was obsessed with Girl Interrupted

when it came out. I mean, I don't think I saw it in theaters because I think I was too young, but it was it was on HBO like once a day a year or two thousand and I watched it every time it was on, and I was obsessed with it, Like it's such an incredible movie. Her performance and it is insane. And I don't mean that like you know in the and I mean that both like and that she did a good job playing someone who you know

is institutionalized, and also like it's she's so good. Yeah, she really is such a like Razor's Edge in that movie, because it's like at the beginning, you're she like does such a great job of like sucking you in and being like, oh, I'm like the most relatable person here that Winder and writer can be friends with. And then she has the most normal yes, and then she has these really cruel moments with like Brittany Murphy's character and

she's just like everybody knows. Everybody knows that, yeah, but what they don't know is that you like Likesery Chicken. O. God, the cast of that movie, it's like literally icons only. Yeah when known Angelina, Brittany fucking Elizabeth Moss. Whoopee, Elizabeth Moss is in it. Wait, I don't remember. She's the girl who's like all burned. Oh, Elizabeth Moss has been around forever. I blot it out. She played a girl who was burned. She probably beat out close for the role,

like she did. Yeah, that sounds kind of shocked. Yeah, is that your favorite Angelina performance? Rose Um, It's it's that or Mr Mrs Smith. I mean, Mr Mrs Smith is so fun, it's just perfect. It's so it's so different. Yeah, I mean Angelina's performance in in Girl in dropt It is my favorite. But I think the movie I enjoy watching the most is Mr and Mrs Smith. Like what a moment in pop culture and like celebrity gossip culture,

Like whoa. Yeah. Also, I didn't realize that was a remake until like a week ago, and now it's being remade again as a t show. Yeah yeah, yeah, but yeah, the whole, the whole like um that really like cemented her. Was that whole thing with breaking up Jen and Brad seem Angelina team team Jen because like I mean, you know, like Jennifer Anderson was America's sweetheart and she and Brad were the perfect couple. And then Angelina, like you know,

have this reputation as this like brown haired harlot. Literally that's how media works. It's like if you have brown hair, yes you're evil. I was gonna say that you you. We cannot over emphasize how culturally important that she was a Burnett likes the many and Veronica of it all. Yes, and they were like Jen and Angelina were foils for each other, like they were the good angel and the dark Angel in the public eye. And so it was the perfect love not a love trangle, but the perfect

like drama love triangle. Well also, it's like Jennifer Anderson is like friends and the craziest she ever got was like The Good Girl where she showed her tids and then Angelina, oh yeah yeah and the Good Girl with Jake Jillen home um where she like a girl is so weird. It's like she's playing like a like CVS employee or something, and it's like she like just repeated it with Cake years later, like she's like, please give me oscar, Like she tried so hard with Cake. I

felt it was Honestly, I was so sad. I was like a girl, you can I believe in you, but like it's not. But it's like, yeah, she was like friends and like all these romantic comedies and then Angelina was like tomb writer girl interrupted, Like it was like

literally could not be more diametrically opposed. And just like watching the movie and because you you, like all the news stories were like Brad and Angelina's like had such incredible chemistry that like it just was overwhelming, and then you watched the movie and you can see it because they really do. That movie is sold by the like truly like astronomical chemistry they have, yeah, horny horn or

horny oh my god. That fight they have at the end and their house is like I mean, now it's weird looking back on it with like the context of everything, but like at the time was so hot. Is your faith like Angelina performance Lara Croft or is it do you have other fave Angelina moments in her heart story. Well, um, I do have a soft spot for salt which came Salt is so good? So where is Saltz to Pepper?

Which was originally written for Tom Cruise. I just found out recently they were like, let's do the all male reboot of Yeah, no, the first one was written for Tom Cruise and then he hadn't dropped out and they were like, what about Angelina. Oh, I didn't know that. That's amazing, But in that movie are incredible and they're Ricky's n Y c there and is there a bachelorette party.

There's a plot point where she has to bleach her hair blonde, like in the bathroom, I think, and she does it with like box dye and it comes out like perfectly tongued, like ice ice blonde, which is actually something that's that happens also in I don't know if you've ever seen Red Sparrow, that spy movie with general between that it actually is really good, but it's kind of the same thing where she's like going undercover and she dyes her hair blonde, and it's like she uses

one box and like her hair is perfectly, perfectly Jennifer Lawrence blonde. I love her. I love any time a character has to duck into a bathroom and die there there like a Gone girl and alias like or any wig action movie. Angelina has done a lot of wig forward films and she does not have a wig face, and so it's it's really right, tell us why, tell

us why. I don't know what it is, proportionally or whatever, but it's like she it's just the clock ey ist wig you've ever seen every time, and I'm sure they're beautifully made wigs, but it's like, have you ever seen

um Life or something like it? No, Um, it's she plays like a morning I mean, she's really trying to go for like a Jennifer Aniston thing here, but it's like she plays like a morning news anchor who like sees that she's going to die and then she like has to live her life differently because she's been like living so bad. It's like kind of a scrooge thing. Um. But she has like a blonde, curly wig in that

movie and it looks so stupid. It's so great, But probably her best one is either um girl interrupted that look great if it was a wig, I'm assuming it is or honestly, the gone in sixty seconds dreadlocks were us. Maybe she got them for real. Maybe she got them for real. You know, I've actually touched one of her wigs, which one so in in early I did a set

visit to UM, the Eternals set. Oh my god, it was like the last day of filming and they brought us into UM one of the hair and makeup trailers, and Angelina's wig was just sitting there on ahead, and like the person was like, that's Angelina's wig, And I just went right over to it and touched it, because please don't do that, but I had to. She is a view on the side a drone like hit me from outside honestly starts you out with like the like claw machine thing. It was like that scene in The

Matrix where they unhook YANU. Wait, what is her hair in that movie? It's blonde. It's blonde. Okay, she doesn't do it's a it's a very cool toned blonde. It was. It was definitely distracting. I honestly, the revelation that she doesn't have a face for wigs because her face is already so incredible is honestly, that's I'm never not going

to think about that. And I think it affected Rosen Eye's viewing of The Eternals because when we were watching it, she's not even really in that movie that much, and we could not stop giggling because she just like every frame, it's just like she looks like the after in the before and after at the esthetician's office, like she looks

like three days ago. It's like like that and just like that where they show carry her face of what it what it could look like after they do a bunch of plastic surgery on her, and like she's always just like like so like Serene just I mean, she's a little snatched. She's always been so snatched. That's why, Like when she had short hair, it looked so incredible. I mean, Macie, that short hair you give Angelina, Like

what are you talking about? And I think you have like such a like singular look and like I think you have very Angelina energy. Oh my god, that's like the biggest compliment I've ever gotten. Thank you. I would agree, honestly, they're just they're they're defining features that someone like Angelina Jolie has, where like women growing up were like I want to look like Angelina, and like, I feel like my mom loved Angelina growing up despite being like a

devout Christian, like she was just like mine too. Women love her, loved her, She was the ideal and so that's honestly why it was like so jarring for her to do Maleficent with like her her like born this way, like her, like her her. Yeah, that that Gaga era like and her her cheekbones were so severe and you're like, whoa like seeing like it was it was a lot. It's very but she looked incredible. She looks so cool

and maleficent. She looks so fucking cool and maleficent. And that might have been a wig, but I think it worked because it was pretty much like her hair, the cheekbones, which I think, like when I saw them, it was like, aren't those just her cheekbones? But I guess they were like prosthetics, but I would have absolutely believed that that

was just her face. Well, it's it is kind of like she and I mean, I don't know, I like it's weird, Like I don't want to like comment on her like body or whatever, but it is like it's like the distinct later era. It's like she's so thin and so like severe, and she doesn't really do interviews and like she's like such a like far Way figure. It's like she's really like done this weird, Like she's like a weird like Hollywood like ghoul. I don't know.

So it's very brain the leg. Do you remember the leg? Yes, it's like I'm just this like thin with a leg. Yes, yes, she just kind of floats along. Yeah, with like her her like big eyes and huge tits because like the tits have always remained very large. Yeah, Oh my god, I forgot about the leg. That's that was such a genius moment. The leg was like, I think like the first time I understood meme culture because it was the only thing you could see on the internet for can

you describe the leg for the Virgin? So it was it was the Oscars one year Whereina just wore this dress that were that was like truly cut up to the pubis and and it was like black and all you could see was just her leg sticking out. Well, I need to make one correction because it was kind of a normal dress with a slit. But what Angelina did was she kind of had it opened a little to the side and then had the leg like hooked

out of the of the dress. Of the leg, it's very much giving like the Show Girls poster, like it's like cut out of her body. But it was that in real life. Yeah, it literally was that. That's such a good appealeg gool with a leg is so funny. That is that should be the title of this episode with a leg. It is so funny because Google googles are like so ugly, but she is ghoulish, and she's

drop dead gorgeous. Like she'soolish and gorgeous. She really kind of like invented that vibe because even even some of her early performances where she's like at her you know, like hottest, she is still giving gool like girl interrupted his super googlie. I've never seen Gia but well, like, I mean literally playing a dead person. I don't even know that. I don't even what is about again, it's gay, right, She's a gay model who contracts HIV and tragically of

an overdose. Yeah wait, I literally did not know that. Wow, Oh it's great. She is amazing. She is amazing. Oh my god. It was like one of her first breakout roles. So it's also like kind of a trip to see Angelina like really young and like really tearing it like it's really good. Another movie that used to be on HBO a lot, but like old after a certain point at night. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was like it was like if they had like a prestige version

of like a skin Amax movie, you know. Yeah, yeah, that seems very much the vibe. I've never seen Hackers, but is great. But that image is like so saturated. She's such a you know, like perfect avatar of that time in fashion and like pop culture, like that look the short hair like very like technoi. She's so hot. Yeah yeah, yeah, I mean that's like another amazing thing about her is that she like she's such a chameleon.

She was so emblematic of that late nineties moment and like that like dragon arm tattoo, like low slung pants, like short, crapped hair like wild child, and then like yeah, and then moving into the two thousands, like celeb culture like in like like such a unique way it was and like really a dominating way, you know, with the Brad Pitt stuff. Yeah, I mean they were at one point the most famous people in the world. Like the brand Jelina of it all. That was when we started

combining people's names. I guess, yeah, oh my god, yeah of course. Yeah. I'm honestly like realizing when you said, like, oh, she doesn't really do interviews, I kind of forgot that she does. Like she's very private, and I think that that like she's been able to maintain her allure and

like her celebrity stature because of that. Like I think, you know, when we talk about how there are no movie stars anymore and how there aren't we were honestly just saying there are no Angelina Jolies anymore, right, right, but if there are any Angelina Jolies for this generation, there on Instagram and Angelina Jolie. I mean, I don't know if she's on Instagram, but she's like not on Instagram,

you know what I mean. Like, Yeah, there's no like disillusionment around celebrities these days, or there's so much disillusionment around celebrities. It was all about them of her, Yeah, yeah, it was with her. It was all about secrets. Like in the beginning, like with the like the crazy wild child stuff, It's like what drugs that she on? Who was she fucking blah blah blaha, and then the the Brad stuff. It was like, oh my god, like how

did this happen? This behind the scenes like adultery and then yeah, and yeah, she's just like very cloaked in mystery. She she's an enigma wrapped in a mystery wrapped and I don't know something she is another synonym, she's Dracula kind of she is. Has she ever played a vampire? Because she really should? She should. I don't know. I mean I just I remember, like not even not even like the movie itself, but when they first revealed her look from a leficit like that was a moment, and yeah,

it was like, oh, this is right, this is right. Yeah, completely, Well, Maleficent is kind of a vampire. I wonder what her um I'm trying to figure I'm trying to remember what her exact character like characteristics were, and when she played Bao Wolf's mom, since she was like she was like booby mom monster like swamp swamp monster mom. I can't even remember what do you remember anything from that movie? Yeah?

I mean that movie was That movie was so weird because it was like all c g I. It was like adult polar expressed, but like, I don't I'm not super familiar with the plot of Bao Wolf, but I know that he like has to It's like a it's like was it Shakespeare. It's like an old like like nurse something. It's it's one of the oldest texts in

the literary canon. But it's like this this monster named Grendel, and she's like, yeah, I remember, he has to like go down into a cave and he's like praying to this like golden pool of water, and all of a sudden, like she comes out nude and honestly looks more like tomb righter than ever because she's like this like kind of braid and she's c G I and um, and she's got heels and she's just like, I'm just looking

at pictures now she's wearing heels. It's wild. It's so weird. Yeah, and then she's just like Hornie talking to the sun. And then I think kind of dissolves or turns into like a crazy looking monster. So I can't remember weird movie. Maybe I'll maybe I'll need to go watch it. Yeah, that really didn't stand up. It really was that she's she was living in the untranned Valley exactly exactly. That should have been an action figure. Honestly, it's remarkable that

she hasn't played trans up into this point. But I mean some of it feels like some of her characters kind of are still trans Cannon, almost all of them. I would, you know, she is the Deeva doll herself. Like I think Angelina is like a little She's one of the girls in a way. I mean, yeah, you think about like like the song Vogue and they're talking about like Bettie Davis, we love you, and it's like if you just like kind of shift that idea onto

modern times, It's like she's definitely like the one. It's like they're not saying like I mean, maybe some people are saying, like Susan so Randon, we love you, Like it's not love, Yeah, totally, It's like it's I love Susan so Randon, but it's not quite the same thing. You know. She's giving this like glam mysterious bitch thing you know. Yeah, yeah, sexy demon vibes, Yeah yeah, slide and charge ms like like a virgin. Tell us, what's

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