And those people bring back double collar polos. Nowhere to God, She's sheen. I'm me no ma, no my name Yo?
What is your childng Da?
I am a cook, choky?
What's going down the floor?
Like round?
Welcome to like a vision the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose DomU and I'm Fran Toronto. And Fran, you are serving Carlina lagerfeldt and I'm serving the fat person in sweatpants she wants dead. And you know what, I love that about us.
We the virgins have to know that that is a joke at the expense of Carl Lagerfeld. And we will continue to make those because.
I hope he's rotting and.
I hope he's rotting in now. That's the thing.
That's the thing about this met gala and and what we're gonna, you know, chit chat quickly about is that, Like I feel like, overwhelmingly, at least on our timelines, maybe not everyone else's timelines, the discourse was around like Carl Lagerfeld being like a fat, phobic, racist, like mean person, and I was like, Diva, that's everybody at the top of every industry, running every industry, Like that's what this all runs on.
Like, Wow, I am loving this from you because you are usually I'm giving you will you are you are? You are me today you're cosplaying. Not only is Karlina lagerfel roseam you. I love that you are anti discourse today because yeah, I agree. It's like saying someone in the fashion industry bucks is like maybe the most boring thing you can say.
Yeah, it kind of is.
I think throughout that while we were watching last night, I think I I was at times frustrated about how the people that I was seeing talk about Carl are people that like aren't in fashion. Sorry, Like and if you don't know anything about fashion and you don't know Carl's influence on fashion, like you don't really know how to talk about it, Like you might as well like be complaining about how like Michael Jackson ruined pop music
or what it's like. It doesn't matter if like you don't like Michael Jackson, Like yes, like Michael Jackson is a pedophile, but he also invented pop music.
Allegedly, Yeah is that alleged?
Still it's still alleged.
Oh that's news to me.
Anyway, we're talking about how stupid it is to do discourse about carlography here we are kind of engaging in it, but I'm really I'm really struck by. I got my eyebrows wax yesterday and they're slaying a little bit. They look really good.
And you know what else looks really good today, Rose, Something that you know the virgins at home can't see, but maybe they'll see on our social or something. Is this gor Jean and Boilin inspired necklace A la ugly Betty that a one rosedami.
You did buy me for my birthday.
And it's not a competition buying presents for birthdays, but if it was, Rose Domio did win.
Let's just say that it is the first Tuesday in May, and as you were listening to this episode, it is the first Thursday in May. So I'm sure you were all very sick and tired of Met Gala coverage and opinions, but you're going to hear a little bit of ours, and we will try to keep it light and fun and fancy free. We did gather to watch the Red Carpet last night. It was a lot longer than I.
Expected it to be, also way more fun than I thought, Like you know, like I think you and I had really expectations, Like, you know, we were just like, oh, you know, we'll like order something like I had fun.
I had a good time. I mean it was exactly what I expected, which was you Laurel and I sitting on my couch just on Twitter, in my same space. Yeah. But as far as the actual carpet and fashion, look, listen, listen, I want to give a disclaimer. I'm not a fashion girlie. I consider myself somewhat fashion adjacent. I like to consume, I like, you know, like shoes whatever. I'm like literally sitting here wearing a gross hoodie that hasn't been washed
in maybe a full calendar year. But you know, I still have my opinions, and I think generally this was an underwhelming Megala fashion wise, but I think a lot
of that is due to the theme. And just like as I was saying to Phoebe before you got on here, like I'm not even really that excited about seeing this met exhibit because I just think out of the whole world, car Lagerfeld, from my uneducated point of view, is just very boring and like not the type of design that I am drawn to, and that was very much reflected on the Red Carpet last night, with a few exceptions.
M yeah, yeah, I mean, I'm I'm also I don't consider myself a fashion girly. I like to think myself as a style girly. And I think that styling good distinction. Yes, And I think that styling is usually what wins the Metgala. I think that how you pull an outfit together, how you accessorize, how you create the fantasy is is really how you win instead of like recreating a runway look or just wearing something that's lowed for the sake of it.
I think that I don't know, so I've also I've been seeing a lot.
Of people be like this is like such a you know, this like Met Gala theme like sucks or whatever, and like every year someone's gonna say, like the Megala theme sucks. I actually think unfortunately, and I've been thinking about this, I think that this was a really good mechala and I and I know I'm thinking about years. I thought that Camp Mechcala was amazing. I know, every there were so many people that were like rotted, horrible whatever, but like I have so much fun watching people have fun
and go all the way out. And the thing about a mechala theme like camp is that it's open to interpretation. You can wear any designer you want and like cater it to your style. And I think that that was something that lent itself to a lot of fun on
the red carpet. And I think that's also something that's true about Carl is that, yes, like Carl in Channel and in his other work, like created uniforms, created things that you know, we're black and white, created things that were like classic, and so there's a really boring way to do that. But I did love that because it's such a there's such a wide way to interpret Carl that everyone did get to kind of showcase their personality.
Like we saw like kind of the best of how people could dress in a black and white ensemble or in like a classic feminine silhouette that I.
Thought, you know, it was kind of fun.
And yeah, I think I dur in the in the moment last night, I was like I was like, like, what's like, what's cool here? What's not cool here? And like and at the end of the day, I was like, this is fun. Like this this I think everyone kind of like did a really good job and to me, not a ton of like worse dressed, but did you have something dressed?
Should we start there?
Yeah, let's start with the bad ones. I I mean this not like horrible, huge mega flap doo doo cock guy. But considering how I don't always love what she wears, but she usually does, especially for the past couple of bat galas she has turned it out, I thought Lizzo was disappointing. Yes, extremely boring and like also a good instance of like. The only things that saved her were
the styling, like her hair was great. There were not enough updues on the carpet last night, and also not enough hats, and Carl Lagerfeldt was very much a hat person. And the fact that like Dua Lipa wore that fucking Chanelle bride dress and didn't wear the little balo and hat that was worn with it on the runway, We're pointing, like, you know, it's giving like a lane stretching company, does nobody wear a hat or whatever the line is.
With the Dua look, Like if Dua had worn not just the tiny hat that comes with that look, but like six more hats stacked on top of that hat, you know what I mean, Like that's actually I think Janelle Mona did a version of that for the Mecca if here. But like my point is, like, you know, take it to the next level, Like I totally agree with that. And also like Coco, Chanelle famously wore that like boater hat like that, like that Audrey Heppern also
wore like there were no boater hats. I also, honestly, I mean so esoteric, but like it would have been really cool even though this isn't Carl but it is Chanelle. If someone had done like an interpretation on like the Little Black Dress, you know what I mean, which like if there's like an avant garde way to do the little Little Black dress, Like I think that would have
been like something kind of fun and interesting. But yeah, Lizzo, Lizzo, I think like it was like the pearls should have been smaller, and like the way the pearls draped on her just it didn't look well as well tailored as it could have.
It was very it was very matronly. Yeah, matronly.
There was a lot of tailoring issues on the runway up.
Margot Robbie, one of the most beautiful women in the like in Hollywood.
I'm like so tired with talking about it at this point, as I as I tweeted, it's like she's allergic to surveying. Yes, And I'm so worried about the Barbie scenario we have coming this summer. She just like everyone is like, oh, it's her style, so it's her, Like Chanelle Contract, I think she just has bad taste.
I think she definitely has bad taste. You can't you can't, you're you allow these things to put on your body that is still a taste level. And with Margot Robbie, like that dress was a recreation of something from like the sixties, which is even.
More of an issue.
And and and also Emma Chamberlain in that like, I still don't know who.
Emma Chamberlain is. I don't know who. It doesn't right, you don't need to, you know. I mean I thought Emma. I thought Emma Chamberlain was fine. It was she was wearing Mumeu and it was a very mu Meu look it. I don't think she needed to do an outfit change. But whatever I thought, Lolana's ex was a let down. It was just not a good execution of trying to do a shoe pette look. It just like it didn't read for me, and it just was like confusing and
it was actually it was kind of an annoying look. Honestly, Yeah, okay, it was obnoxious. So if you saw the other photos of lil Na's wearing like this fit, he had like a huge white fur coat on top of it. And I think on the styling level, that actually would have like brought the look closer to like where it needed to be, like on the level that it needed to be.
But I think that he took the coat off after like Doja Cat beat him to the red carpet because they didn't want to have like these kind of like same same like cat looks or whatever. And or maybe he wasn't wearing fur well, maybe did Jared leto get there first, like something happened. Maybe he was just hot. I don't know. Maybe I think he just wanted to like walk around feeling his like silver pussy fantasy and that.
And if that's true, that's the problem because Divadal was dressed for battle him, like she was not dressed for the met gala, and I.
Was like, if you if you look like you know a fagat Pride. That's not fashion. And if the only garments you're wearing our like heels and underwear, like they better be the best fucking heels and the best fucking underwear I've ever seen, and like zero, the cereals were really cute and I loved how they looked, but like, I don't know if that was the shoe for the look, and then the underwear didn't like contours, ass it wasn't really special.
It's actually kind of the opposite problem is what we were talking about before. It's like too much styling and yeah enough look, yes, too much Like this is a fashion event, you should be I think, wearing a garment.
Yeah, you should be wearing a garment.
Or to honor a designer or designed things. Yeah, yeah whatever. I don't need to like dwell on the little nose of it all.
But let's talk about what we liked.
Let's yeah, vibes, posy vibes.
Okay, my number one, well, actually I think tied for number one of the night, and on very different ends of the spectrum were MICHAELA. Cole and Sciparelli like that like insane gold beaded dress to the foot, the like
perfectly molded foot shoes incredible. And then on the other side of things and halfway mother mother Sleigh in in custom Versace like tweed Versace, like really like Versace doing Chanel in such an incredible way, and like Anne on the like on the total flip side from Margot Robie, like Anne has Eileen coming out of the end of this year and she has been slowly ramping up her fashion SNAr fantasy and like it can only get better from here.
I Mikhaela Cole.
Her fit was like a perfect example of like how you can interpret Carl anyway you want, and like the ornate like kind of details of her dress with like the little lipsticks and the little homages to Carl. It's like the look looks nothing like Carl, but like if you zoom in, it's Carl, you know what I mean, Like that's.
How you do it.
It was so smart and I just Skiparelli's like one of my favorite you know designers to like behold and look at you know, so how could it be bad? But like Anne, does she have like a new stylist or something everything in the last she doesn't.
She doesn't have a new stylist, but she did do. I think a Hollywood Reporter story with her stylist somewhat recently in which they said that they basically just decided to do this new era and just like ramp everything up to another level, and that she's like having the most fun she's ever had dressing and it really shows and all of the work she's been doing, specifically with Versace, which she is a face of. She's servant cunt and
that's just it is what it is. Who were your favorites of the night?
Yeah, and definitely was at the top of my list in terms of like, oh like unexpected, perfectly executed, stunning, gorg my favorites of the night. I think we're just everybody's favorites. I uh, you know, best dressed is always Rihanna.
Even this year, you thought.
One hundred and ten percent. I thought she was gonna skip the carpet, which she kind of did. She skipped the broadcast. She did the same thing last year, right exactly. I thought that because she wasn't gonna do it, I was like, oh, maybe she's like not pulling a stunt as much, and like last year, I felt like her carpet was fine. This year, I when her look was revealed, Rose, I was in my apartment like laugh like I had
this like grin on my face. I was like laughing like crazy, like I thought it was fashion genius, like at its finest. And I know it's such an uninteresting and like uh shallow take to be like Rihanna won the mat Gala, but like I do think that this looks specifically is emblematic of like what is her genius in this fashion world? At a pay homage with Karl with these white flowers in a way that was like better than how Bunny did it, even though like bad Bunny was so good like and also.
Oh his slutty sluttyosed back. It was for me.
Rihanna with the sunglasses that with the Chanelle eyelashes on the sunglasses, like that was it for me. I was like, it was so great to stop styled like so perfectly executed.
I loved.
Obviously, Cardi's always best dressed, like that's obvious for me. I have some sleeper hits, which I guess I'll get into, But like, what were some of your other favorites? Nicole, of course, wearing her two thousand and four Chanelle perfume ad dress. I also really liked Jenna Ortega in Tom Brown.
I thought she looked beautiful. I love a saddle shoe and she was wearing like a heeled Oxford saddle shoe. Thought she looked great. Gigi Hadid, who I have like recently, like started to after watching her host Next in Fashion, and then Doja cat Her and Michaela would be my top three of the night because Doja, it like is in a way a very simple look and it it is on theme and it's like gaggy without being overwhelmingly cost to me, like the cat prosthetics are still fashion, which I think.
Is exactly and I felt like it.
I thought Rihanna and Doja did something of the same thing where they took a kind of over the topness and then also elevated it with like an understatement, you know what I mean. Like I felt like it was perfectly balanced, perfectly accessorized. Yeah, I mean, bad Bunny, I thought, was I know, so you said something very astute yesterday, which is that you know, men don't enter the list because men are just in a different category that don't need to be evaluated or should be evaluated.
It's a different scale.
Yeah, I don't include scale that Bunny really was like one of the best stressed for me, at least in the mentory department, if not like kind of in like my top list of like things that I remember just because the exposed back was so smart.
Jakamu was so smart.
Pedro Pascal looked amazing, I thought, like with the other guys that did well, I thought Brian Tyree Henry, And I also thought Diddy was like so classically Diddy. I feel so grateful for like things that he brings to fashion.
Okay, let's move.
Yeah, you're like, okay, so none to men's ware.
Kristen Stewart, I thought, oh, actually, sometimes she's kind of like hey mama's, Hey mama's love being representations as friend of the podcast Blyth the Marks said.
I literally just learned what a hey Mama's what a hey mama's lesbian is And oh damn, I love Yeah, Kristen isn't always like, you know, amazing on the red carpet and she looked perfect well.
No, I mean that's that's the thing is people have talked about how for the last couple of years she was another one of those girls who was seemingly locked into this sort of fausty bargain with Chanelle and was always wearing these weirdly feminine, ugly ass Chanel looks on red carpets and I love that for this, you know, Cara Lagerfeld carpet, she came out in a men's wear look like, looking like her strap weighed twenty pounds.
It was so good. Okay sorry.
Also asap, Rocky's men's wear look was really cool with the belts and the scar. I just what I liked about Aceop was just him standing on the side looking at Rihanna like like you are God. He is such a fucking wife guy. I love oh one hundred percent sleeper Hits, Sleeper Hits. I thought, like Glenn Clotes so beautiful. Tianna Taylor, like Tianna Taylor edible, that's how you show ass, Like sorry little nas.
Like if you're gonna show ass, that's how you show ass.
Like the hip cutout. Yeah, really giving body like wearing tweet another Tom Brown. I mean, the Tom Brown girlies really do slay kind of the most every year.
I have yet to see the write up that that was like it was Tom Brown's night because it was his Antilia dressed so many fucking people, and you know that's probably because he's married to the director of the costume exhibit and also like famously does black and white.
But like he should do Chanelle, Like there should be a Tom Brown Chanel collab, moment collections something like, I mean, maybe Tom Brown is actually too distinct for that, but like, I yeah, I thought that his looks were like winning all night long. I gener Ortega honestly in the Tom Brown Like that's again, it's like perfect, a perfect marriage of who Karl is and then who the celebrity is, right Lea Michelle Sleeper.
Hit Barber Strides end.
Realness a hundred percent of Barber reference Erica but two kind of a serve. I thought she looked so cool with a little like white curtainy thing.
I know, it was kind of when she was doing her interview, it made it look like she had a mustache.
Yeah, I was like her mustache was like flopping, yeah, flopping around. If Florence Pew is going to debut a buzz cut, which is hot behavior, why would you wear like an ugly like headdress on top of the buzz cut to cover up the bus.
She's another one who has really bad taste.
Really, oh, I don't follow, I'm not at whatter Pew Florence Pew stands called I don't know.
Pew, p puglinators, pullinators. When you told me seaking past deals, it should also be said that when you said Florence is debuting her buscuit, I was like, Florence Welch is debuting her bus. Yeah, she's cutting. She's removing the thing that she is most known, which is being an iconic redhead and debuting a buzz cut. Yeah, Florence Pugh has a really bad style.
I feel like again, like, if you're going to talk about the Mecala, don't be so un fun about it. Like this is a grotesque display of capitalism and celebrity, and that's why we are all here for it.
Yeah, it's the it's the super Bowl of fashion.
Yes, it's the super Bowl of Fashion, which Rose and I will one day be at.
Yeah sure, why not? I have the very least like on the sidelines. Yeah yeah, yeah, maybe not not walking you never know. I don't know that I would want to do that because I don't know if I can subject myself to that. I mean, I mean I don't want to be famous. Yeah, I don't ever want to subject myself to that level of public scrutiny.
I do want to be famous, I know, I'm well aware. No, I don't know if I want to be famous. I'm like thinking about I'm like kombucha girl right now, Well, I yeah, do I want to be famous? I don't know if I want to be famous, But like, I love fashion. I want to participate in fashion. I love what MICHAELA. Cole said yesterday on the very terrible Vogue live stream.
Girl, girl, girl, I love what MICHAELA Cole.
She was like, I'm but a tourist in this industry, Like I'm not here to claim fashion, Like I'm just a tourist.
And I was like, that's that's cheap. Like that's how I feel a lot of the time. That is cheap.
But yeah, no, girl, that Vogue run that Vogue live stream, Like we don't need to get into details, but likeab.
I need you know, it's giving super nanny. If you all are in a crisis, I'm on my way, Like the uh, the people hosting red carpets are not doing it the way they should and I need to get back out there.
Yeah, yeah, but you know, you know who should have been on the red carpet aside from us? Obviously you did tweet that the the resident Evil mom should have should have been walking.
No, the Evil Dead mom.
Oh right, Evil Dead, Resident Evil? Are those different entities or are they they are different?
Yes? Okay, well you know I was close. You were close.
Okay, what's the difference between the two?
For the virgins? And then you can Resident Evil is, I believe, a video game series that has been adapted into a movie series, and then Evil Dead is a movie franchise about not like zombies, but possession movies. And I did, in fact, I did, in fact see the new Evil Dead film, Evil Dead Rise, on Friday, and I did love it. It was so fun. I was kind of having a bad day on Friday and needed to get out of my head and just like be scared and be no thoughts, had empty, just vibes, just
spooky vibes, and the movie delivered exactly that. It's I mean, if anyone doesn't know about what Evil Dead is, it's this film franchise where there's this book called the Book of the Dead and people read it and then they get possessed by these like demonic entities who just want to create absolute chaos and like rip their bodies apart
and the bodies of the people around them. And in this new film, the person that that happens to is a single mother living with her three children in an apartment building Los Angeles, and her sister comes to stay with them and her son, who's played by a transactor. Love to see that there's like a lot of trans representation in horror these days, which is great, and that mean horror is usually the place where we get representation first. That's like long been like a staple of the genre.
And he like finds this book after an earthquake and then the mom becomes possessed and then starts like terrorizing her family, and it was so fun. The actress Alyssa Sutherland I believe, who plays the mom, is incredible and I truly believe she will win an Oscar someday. She just has this like gummy face that like it just was so perfect for being transformed into like absolute evil. Like the way that she smiles at her children is so menacing, and her physicality was great. I've been seeing
a lot of her videos on TikTok. She did a lot of her own stunts, which is very cool, and the gore is insane. There's this one scene where someone gets their flesh scraped off with a cheese grater. And the opening scene of the film, so every Evil Dead movie has like a title card scene that's about something slightly different than the main action of the movie, And in this one, it's these people who are on vacation by a lake and this girl gets her scalp ripped off,
and it's so good. Make it snatched, well literally snatched. Night, I had to do something I never do, which was fall asleep with the TV on.
I couldn't.
I was just so scared that like something was gonna crawl out of the darkness of my apartment. Yeah, like the soothing, comforting noise of a TV.
Someone I went on a date with said that Evil Dead was kind of giving camp Is that.
Yes, saying the original films are much campier, And then the series was kind of like soft rebooted in twenty thirteen with Evil Dead twenty thirteen, and that's much more. I haven't seen it, but I really want to. From what I understand, it's much more like Grim and like excellent, but not as cant be funny. I think this movie was probably like a sweet spot in between the two. Like one of the things that I really liked was
the actress who played the mom. I saw an interview with her where someone was asking what she used for inspiration for her role, and one of the things she referenced was the Mask with Jim Carrey. That's because because she was thinking that this demonic entity, like once it was in a vessel, would be having so much fun inflicting terror on people, and that really came through in her performance, and it was even though it was like
menacing and terrifying, it was really fun to watch. So I yeah, it is a little not not as much, but there's a couple like silly, goofy, campy moments throughout the film.
Okay, yeah, honestly that that in and of itself makes me want to watch it. I never would have considered this movie had had you not thrown in my way. So I think I think I may, I may get my get my butt to an AMC if I can find a body to watch it with.
You should you should find a fellow Stubb anista.
Yeah, fellow Stubb anista, but you are no longer sad faced.
I did. I told my my friend who I went to the movie with, I said, I'm making dinner reservations for us after because we saw it Alamo and I said, There's no way I can eat dinner while watching something that gory and like we couldn't.
Even eat the popcorn. That's how stomach journey it was. Here's the thing, Rose, you know, we chatted a little bit about the Mechala. If there is someone who is like the girl that's gonna respond to every every single
component of Megala coverage, it is a one. Mikel Street, our dear friend and former co worker, Mikel Street, is actually like the person to get into my DM saying well, actually, you know what I mean, like actually loves she loves a well actually and like I did actually post something on my story last night about the Mecala and Mikel was like, well actually, and I'm like, come on, do you have to be right about like everything?
And he does, and she is here today to give us a well actually about Anna Wintour HBI C of the met Gala and the magazine and basically the entire fashion world. So that's going to be very exciting, and I think we're gonna learn a lot.
Yes, and we recorded this a while ago, so you know, no Megala coverage from my caw. But we well we talked about all things Anna and sempergreen.
Fashion context exactly. I'm so cold, I'm so grown, I'm so real life, I'm so show off my diamonds designed to twinkle with light as the valley fills with darkness. Shadows chase and run around in the morning. I cheer for sunshine and I feel, but I don't feel enough in the midnight hours.
I try to This is winter. That was Oh my god.
I knew exactly what because I was listening, but I was just like, sounds like Edgar Allan Poe and she's giving lyrics. She's giving, she's giving darkness.
Do any of those lyrics resonate you as a as a fan of person. I don't know.
I didn't really listen. Clocked out, was like, where's you listen to? My women are talking? Well, what hath was?
No?
I just like I I don't remember any of them.
Well, it's about being cold, being you know, like a fashion bitch.
No I I I will say best song or maybe top three for me.
Yeah, I mean I try not to have best Azalea songs.
You don't really do top threes, top fives in general, I don't.
Yeah, you would need a top fifty.
Yeah, you're you're like a you're a fat girl.
I try to be so nuanced, and I'm like, well, it depends on how we're funny.
Thing, The thing is, you don't.
You don't try to be nuanced. You have a nuancing compulsion. You are compulsorily. Yeah, I want and therefore cannot say any You will not You cannot say or accept any platitudes, Yeah, any any sort of like flat statements. You will be like now wait a second. Yeah, And that is how we're going into this conversation, dear virsions. So every time Rose and I say literally anything, Michael will probably be like, well, actually.
Well actually, but what happened was but no, I mean I think that like, yeah, that kind of idea of like being cold or even being perceived as really cold and like you don't care about people's feelings, I think is absolutely something that like people associate with Anna, and also that like I with and mostly because like I think that Anna, well like that growing up, I looked up to specifically women like Anna Winter, Kelly Coutron, and oh my god, there's another that I am not thinking of.
Kelly Cotrone is a mother to many. Who's Kelly Catron? Oh my god. She's like a PR fashion icon. She had a show called kell on Earth. Oh if you did you watch The Hills or the OC. She was Lauren Conrad's bossy.
She also did an iconic interview magazine issue recently talking about all these TikTok fashion girlies who show up at fashion week, like thinking there's somebody and she's like, no, you're nobody, Like.
We don't care about you.
So is she?
So she is in PR. She's not like a socialite, she's not.
She produces fashion show she used to produce like she used to her PR firm used to be the PR firm for London Fashion Week, like not just individual shows, and so she's done a lot of I think she used to have rough Rucci. She introduced a bunch of like Spanish and like other sort of international designers to New York Fashion Week and to the New York Qushian scene. Anyways, she has a book called If You Have to Cry don't.
I mean, if you have to cry, go outside, Like that was one of her mantras and wodows, and she would always give her interns this speech that like like I don't care about your feelings. We're here to do work. Like I'm here to do a job, and like, if you have to cry, go outside, I don't want to hear it. If I tow you like. She also can't deal with this generation because she's like, if I toe to do something, do it, Like I just do It's I'm not going back and forth. Yeah, and so she
was very like cut through anyways. So like the two of them and there's somebody else that like I'm for some reason, I can't think of who they are right now. Kind of really taught me the three of them and Grace Connington a little bit, but kind of shove so good and also very different like not but I want to read this quote from Kelly Catrone. We keep a lot of list.
This is from I'm an interview magazine interview that she did recently. We keep a lot of lists. But this year, my team is really small, and she's talking about New York Fashion Week. I'm doing everything with four or five people. That doesn't include the people, but all of the interview requests, pre interview requests, post interview requests, celebrities, fake celebrities, fake
ass fucking people who think their major who aren't. And I feel now that it's my job to tighten up the reins a little bit and say, sorry, I know you think you're in the fashion business because you have two million followers on TikTok, but you're not. You're a little kid from Laguna Beach or Orlando, Florida who has some kind of great skill with getting attention on the internet. But that doesn't make you a fashion influencer.
Yeah, it's it's I don't even want to go into that, but ye honestly, that's all you can talk about that for like another hour. And so I'm wondering, is.
This like this idea of the cutthroat leave your feelings of the door fashion diva, is that an archetype that predates Anna.
Or with Diana or yeah? No, absolutely, I mean Diana was no that Diana was like very eccentric.
And Diana Freeland for the versions.
And I'm sure that like there has always existed this idea of this like woman who's like extremely ambitious and like cutthroat and like I'm sure that pre dated and was in fashion before Anna, but I it was. I respected Anna growing up. I like got into like voge at a very very young age. I mean I also got into fashion at a very young age. You remember how old you were. I can tell you the way that I try to explain to people how early I got into fashion was in the second or third grade.
I believe it was the third grade. We had to write our first research paper, and I wrote a research paper on Charles Frederick Worth, who was widely considered to be like the father of couture. And like I remember obviously, like I was in the second or I think I was in third grade, and so I don't know anything
about like photo rights and stuff like that. But I remember going to Google dot com and typing in his name and then just going to Google images and like pulling in onto like my cover letter, so I could have these like images of dresses. Now you would be sued over exactly Obviously I didn't know anything about it. You did not have account but like that's how early I became cognizant. Well that I can show that I knew that I was interested in and that and was.
It was it like the clothes themselves or the culture of fashion.
Well, I think that like the I think this is for everyone with fashion. I think like you first come to the clothes and like that's the thing, and then like you realize like everything else. And I think so many people from the youngest age you were interested in the clothes, and so you might draw the closer like where you know, try to style things which obviously are you wear them. You try a blanket around your exactly,
and a ball all of those kinds of things. And then I think that once you become exposed to like learning like oh there's magazines. Oh there's this other thing. Oh there's this, and then you start being like, oh, actually I mentioned in the clothes, but like I don't want to design them, like I want to do this other thing. And I like very quickly became aware of magazines and so like when I was in high school. When I was in middle school, I started a blog.
But when I was in high school, I like started like stealing magazines from the library same because we couldn't afford them. And then like when I was able to like some kind of way started making money. I started getting these subscriptions, and I remember that my mother was like, you cannot have more than eight magazine subscriptions because there's no way for you to read. I'm tapping eight magazines
a month, and you did. But you did though, But I mean I would read them all everything I went, and I when I moved out to go to college, we I had these like bookshelves that were just all of my magazines. Like I can't justide there was so many.
Very carry Bradshaw with all the vogues that she used to buy instead of food because she felt they fed more very bad. I love that your fashion origin story is also an origin story about you know, how you became, how you fell in love with the complex world of photo licensing. And I love that that is just you know, because that is you know, part of your person. We are meant to be a journal No, I don't think you guys quite understand.
Like I ran this blog and I was like, do you want this blog? I had I don't know, multiple.
Time.
Yes, I had multiple blogs when I was younger, and then like I knew that I wanted to be a fashion writer a journalist so much, and I wanted to like review fashion shows, and so I would I was so like directional that, like I was like, I know this is what I want to do, so how can I do a version of that now? So back then I was like, I want to be like Tim Blinks. I want to be like Kathy Horn. I want to be I want to go to these shows and review them.
And I know that like so much of that as speed, and so like I would tell myself like I had like a specific amount of time after photos came out back then style dot Com from the time Photos came out to write a review on my blog and like I was like, and so that is actually way you savage in your reviews.
Oh yeah, you were like setting trash down the runway middle school.
And I was like so dead serious about like this is what I want to do with my life and like this is how I get there, and so like then it was nothing. When I like moved to New York and I like met this person who worked at the site at the time called now Fashion and they do a lot of the fashion photography runway photography at
fashion shows. But at the time they were building essentially what now so many publications do, which was they would shoot the the the shows, but then they would I don't know how they did this, but stream essentially stream the shots so like you could watch photos come pop up on your screen as they were going down the runway. And they started to build a team of writers to write reviews for them, and our deadline, I believe was three hours after a show ends.
We had to have a review, and well, tund especially for your first.
Job, and well that was It wasn't most writers, it was not, but it was mine, and it was easy because like I was like, oh, I haven't known this for years. Yeah, like I wasn't at the shows, but like I have been doing this kind of stuff. And then this is also what made me like so like big on like taking opinion and like sticking with it, which is also something I learned for Ann that I learned, you know, watching things with Anna Winter was my editor
at the time. She was like, every you were writing critiques, you were writing criticism. So every piece you write has to have a piece of Every review you write has to have a piece of criticism in it. It does not necessarily have to criticize the designer or the designs. It can be criticism of the industry. It can be
a criticism of whatever. You don't have to say something as bad, but there needs to be some part of criticism in every review you write, and you need to be able to like stand behind that and like you know, write through it. And so that's what I did for my first, like really my first job in New York City. And so yeah, that's what I remember going to like that, I got to go to crazy shows with that. I went to a Valentino Valentino Couture show when they came
to New York City. I went to the Door show. But my first big deal show the first time that
I was ever intimidated. Mind you, I had been writing for her for maybe a year of shows, I think, but the first show that was ever intimidated, I went to a Mark Jacobs show, and I was intimidated because I knew that, like my review was going to be coming out with like everyone who's anyone in fashion who was writing reviews at the time, we're going to be We're at this show and we're going to be writing and like my review was going to come out at the same time or before there, and so like I
was paranoid about it was for the first time. I was paranoid about being wrong that I would like have about his show and like critique it and then like everyone else's piece would be like talking about something completely different. And so I wrote my review and I sent it in and it was the first time this has ever happened. I sent it in and she sent it back and she was like, you were grouped. She was like, this is not a review, this is a description because you
didn't you were too soft. I didn't know because I did exactly which I just described what happened, and she was like, we have pictures we can see. So I had to like sit down and like she was like and she was like, I don't know what's going on with you, like because she had an opinion. So she was like, I don't know what's going on, but you have a few hours.
If Rose and I were talking to you and someone brought up something, you know, if someone brought us something about fashion and you didn't say something, I would be holding.
My hand to your four half be like are you okay? Go towards the light. But yeah, so like anyways, I say all this to say, but all of that also was kind of instilled in me. Even like my management style for better for worse, I feel like I got from like watching like the September issue and watching Boss Women, which was like this, which Anna is. Yeah, they had an episode on her, and it was about like, don't like mess around, don't be unsure about what you want.
You need to be extremely direct with people and tell them exactly what you want. And they might be upset with you, but as long as they understand what you're going for, then like it's going to be for the better in the end. And like if you're direct with them and you communicate well enough, you can let them go do what they do, Like you need to tell
them what you need. And like I think that, like obviously I have had to learn like how to finesse that, but I think that that has always been at the core of like how I try to manage people, is like I try to identify the best people in the room, which I think Anna, you know, to her credit that I don't think that people give her credit for being able to like identify Grace and Andrea and hey man and like all of those people and people like Anna's
not creative, like she has no sense of style. Blah blah, blah. She doesn't have to because she she identified all of those people and like brought them together. And then the reality is that American Vogue is what it is not
because of the creativity. It's because of the fact that it's a commercial It realizes that fashion is a commercial business, like it's a retail business, and like, how do we channel all this creativity and like artsy, fartsy whatever, which I love, But how do we channel that into selling garments? And I think that like that's why she she you know, she doesn't have to do that. She can have grace
and you can have them fight and grace skin. Oh I want this, I want this, And like Anne's like, oh that's great, but like we're selling coachs this season, so like these three photos have to go. Where where do you think that comes from?
With her?
Well, I mean I don't know. I mean like I don't know, I don't know, Like I know little bit about her origin story, but like it's interesting because her family was all like her. They all look down on her. Oh like her family is all like now that sounds right, well because they're all like serious, like intellectual or like whatever.
So like her, I think her little brother was like at one point was like the politics editor of like the Telegraph, and her father was like this great editor and like, so they were like serious people and so like for the long time, there's this rumor, and I believe it that like she was trying to like become an ambassador. Uh, And I always thought that it was because she really wanted validation from like her family, her family.
But she came up in this family that at the very you know, we don't know what happened in that family, but we know that like all of those kids were like high achieving, like mostly serious. And she says in the September issue, she's like when they ask her about her family and what they think of her work, they're like, oh, they think it's what did she say? They think it's what I do is silly? I think is it like
the word? And like also you get this deeply un serious basically and like but basically she was like, they think I play games. It's like, well, she well, these belts are exactly the same.
Then it kind of makes sense that she has turned her place in this industry that could be seen as very silly or frivolous into one that is extremely.
Serious, the most serious, and.
That's why I've always that's also why I think that
I gravitated towards her over everyone else. And like, obviously I don't know maybe there were other editors who were doing this, but like when I was like watching the September issue in particular, the things that were like so impressive to me was like I was like, I want to be in a position where like I am able to like a mango comes to me and ask me who they should work with next, right, like and I can be able to say, oh, to Kuon is the designer, or like I want to be able to like have
lunches with like these retailers and like have conversations about like, oh, this is these designers are doing really great things, like what is the disconnect? You know, how can we make this industry like work in a way that's like better for the entire industry? And like I've always been interested in that kind of state craft, which is what I think was she was into and.
Diploma diplomacy, Yeah, that's really what it was.
And and and I think I have always been cognizant and interested in like that. And I think that like people, you know, sort of reduce it to just like Vogue as the magazine or whatever, but like she really sees it as the global industry that it is, and like, what is it the rising tide raises all shifts and like how do I like do things that help the entire industry, which Vogue will obviously profit from, right, And
so I think that's why I always I've always been interested. Obviously, I don't think that she's been extremely like personally creative or whatever, but I'm like, you don't need to be, because this is also just as much a business and like about numbers and about diplomacy and like all these things and anything else.
I think that diplomacy like makes her someone who is able to like straddle a lot of worlds at the same time, please a lot of people at the same time, manage a ton of relationships.
And I think part.
Of like what you you're like outlining with her relationship to the fashion industry, I think shows that she came into it and she really like templatized a way of working and being in fashion that is now how a lot of mainstream magazines work. Like she institutionalized I think publishing and also just like a way of being an editor that just permeates every job, every publishing job will ever be at. So even if I've not, I personally have never like been on Conde's payroll, but.
Like a lot of the places I've worked at.
You know, have a cone de kind of sensibility of working because of how Anna gets it done.
And I feel like.
That this like archetype or this kind of card tune that people paint her as sometimes, which I think is like an accurate cartoon, comes from her, like her institutionalization of like fashion, like it comes from her leading with the character before trying to be like really personable, I guess, and not even just.
In fashion, like she is she is this hold over of a of a bygone era of the magazine industry, Like she is the last of a dying breed of high powered magazine editors who like now kind of only exist in fiction.
It's interesting because I on one hand, I'm like Anna is very much the last and also in waghs the first.
But because she has so many children, because she is.
I think that like in many ways she is the
last of like a generation of editors. But yeah, like I think that like everyone is trying to wrap the Kate, the kind of influence and power that Vogue has in like their own ways and like in influencing their industries or you know whatever, like in their own ways, And I don't you know obviously, I like, I'm not going to try to say that, like I have like a comprehensive idea of like how all editors are and were prior to her, But I think you've got a pretty good idea.
Girl, Like, well, yeah, Rose, do you remember like your first like or some of your like what your earliest like impressions of Anna might have been or Vogue.
I think for me, growing up as a little pre woman gay kid in Florida, I think I understood that fashion was something that, as a queer person, I was supposed to be interested in, and because of that, I would buy Vogue and try to like manufacture an interest in it. And like, don't get me wrong, like I'm interested in fashion.
I think I'm more.
Interested in the cultural aspect of fashion than like even the I mean I like clothes, sure, but I don't care about fashion in the way that that you do.
But I it felt like, you know, we were talking when we did our Missus Doubtfire episode, we talked about how like I talked about how one of the things I loved about that was the scene where they're giving Roma Williams the makeover and they're like referencing all these things that like there's this like shared queer language, and I guess that's what I kind of felt like Vogue was and what being interested in fashion was, it was
being part of that shared queer cultural language. And so I think that's probably when I started understanding who Anna Wintour was. But it was definitely the Devil's Product that was That was the thing, Oh that made me know who she was because I read the book when it first came out, and it was like this huge, like publishing sensation. And I think the first time I really knew who she was was when I read the book and someone said, oh, that's about Anna Wintour.
I don't.
I think this was pre Devil War's product Slash.
I didn't watch Doubles product until years after it came out.
But I think one of my.
First one of my earlier fashion memories, I was trying to think of the first Vogue that I ever bought, and I'm I want to say it was the one with Gaga on it, the huge McQueen gown.
It was a very gray cover. She had gray hair at the time.
And I remember either in this issue or around this issue, Annie Leebowitz was doing all those Disney recreations.
Of photos with celebrities so good. Was that for Vogue or was it? Yeah, that's pretty sure.
I'm pretty sure was for Vogue. Okay, So that's like one of my earliest memories. And I because of that series started to like idolize any Libuwitz back when she was relevant and like it captured my imagination at an access point that made sense to me as like however old I was. And I think that that is probably something that they were thinking about when they were doing the shoot. They were like, this is something that kids understand and that adults also think is cool.
It's interesting because I think that, like I, I mean, I have actually never like said this out loud, So
we're going to see how it goes. But yeah, it's interesting to me because years ago, like obviously, fashion was like so fantastical and like this the things that Annie was doing and Grace was doing, and like all these people were doing, Like I I was going back to watch the September issue and like thinking about like the twenties shoot that they did and like, and I think it was interesting because it was at a time where people were not necessarily interested in fashion for clothes, and
so they had to do all of this other stuff, would like make sure that it told this great, big story on this extremely large scale to get people interested. But I think that because more people are interested simply in fashion and like the clothes themselves, I think that that has allowed Vogue to be a little less like they don't have to go that far because people are also simply just coming to look at the clothes as well as the celebrities that are involved. And so I've
never said that like out loud before. And obviously this also has to do with like budgets being slashes, so there's simply not budgets to like do all of that. And it has to do with the fact that it takes so much more to convince the celebrity to like give in to a creative brief because of social media and the fact that like they don't need to do that in order to be like and be in front
of and speak to their consumers. But I do think that that the general publics, like increase in fashion knowledge largely due to Vogue, has allowed Vogue to like scale back and because people will just look at the images for the pieces as opposed to like needing to necessarily be transported in everything.
Yeah, it does make me wonder, like what in twenty and twenty three is the function of Vogue and is the function of anointur.
Because like, I don't know, I'd be curious to know, like your trajectory, like how you would analyze the trajectory, because I feel like a lot of people would say that like Vogue's like golden age is like over for to put it flatly, which you'll probably nuance for me, But like, I feel like a lot of people are feeling like, especially in a social media era where everyone's you know, holding people accountable and like problematizing images online
immediately that because Vogue is now under so much content constant scrutiny along with like every other media brand.
It's like lost its luster.
It feels like it's not a lot of times, it feels like it's not on trend. I'm thinking about that, Harry, was it the Hairy Styles cover that was like these gender fluid icons or whatever, or like things like that's like a kind of that's a superficial example.
But things like that, I think that was That's what it is.
Gig insane.
Yeah, I mean, I think it's really interesting. I think that, like, I think two things are true. I think that, like people have these expectations of Vogue, particularly people who live in New York in or hyper online, these expectations of Vogue that Vogue is going to be forward thinking because when they were younger, Vogue was forward thinking. But the thing is, when they were younger, they weren't hyper online, and they weren't in New York. They were in South Carolina and Oklahoma.
And with no iPhones, no social media, no nothing, and so Vogue.
Was ahead for them. And I think that the reality is that like for people who are not hyper online and who are not in these big cities, Vogue is still ahead.
It's still ahead.
And so I think that like people just have a different because the Internet, people have a different unders like people who are in these cities who are hyper online or like much further than they were, and so they're now in the same place that someone in New York
is and so they're like, oh, this is so behind. Yeah, but it's like, well, Vogue isn't actually for you specifically, Like it's actually like a mass magazine, and so like when people say things like, oh, like I look at American Vogue, and I look at Vogue Talia and British Vogue, and like all the other vogues are so further ahead than American Vogue, And it's like, I don't really know that the average American consumer is thinks that, well, yeah, it thinks that or is like as like editorially and
visually ahead as some of these other places, Like I think I just don't. It's I was talking about this with someone online the other day, but not about vote but about another topic. I just think that, Like I think it's important to really like understand like who the customer of the product is that you're judging. Yeah, I think that like the line chair of the customer for Vogue is not where most of the critics are. That's a way of putting it.
It does feel very in a way kind of like Middle America, like it is because that market is so much bigger. Like I actually, for Christmas this year got a gift of a coffee table book of Vogue images and it was like.
It was such a mom gift, you know, it was not. It was crazy.
It was like And I also gave a coffee table gift as a as a gift to someone, and I gave them a Jill Sander coffee table book, and I was like, Okay, this is like the difference.
You know, these are the two genders.
I'm also realizing that maybe even pre dating the Double Wars product is the episode of Sex and the City where Carrie goes to Vogue and she drunk. I'm drunk at Vogue and she gets paid two dollars and fifty cents a word.
Oh my god, never watched Sex and the City. But I do know that you never watched Sex and this stuff. You ever worked somewhere where you got paid per word.
We need like a Sex and the City induction program, like we need actually it's just come over to my apartment, yehide pay and like there are a lot of people who have never seen in the City.
We look versions we at we at Loretta LLC.
The name of our business, are here to tell you that if you know someone in need who has never seen the sex, I'll give you.
We will give you friends h because there are too many people, you see.
Yes, we will, we will. We we're here to we call it mutual aid. Yes, we love a support group.
Yeah, I do want to talk about because I think you can't have a conversation about Anna and about Vogue without talking about the Met galat.
You know, the Met Gala.
In recent years has really become something different than I think a lot of us remember it as being a It is the Halloween Adventure, you know, the musical. What is What would your dream Met Gala theme be?
Oh gosh, I have no clue. I mean I think, think about it, think about it, think about it. We can come back. What do you think of the What do you think of this year's theme? The Carl Lagerfeld? Yeah, oh, I mean it's whatever. It's like when we have these conversations, it's like so important like also acknowledge that like these events and like the progression of them do not happen
in a vacuum. And so like just like we're saying, like these are different than we are used to you also have to like remember that, like celebrities are very different than they used to be, and so like I think like some of them like are not going to go out there and like try these things, and some of them are and like some of like I just they that they have a sense of independence in ways that like they may not have in the in the past.
I think because like social media, because of social media, and I just I don't know, I mean, I it's it's always really interesting to me to see the Magala looks.
Do you have a favorite of the past or like a fave Metcala look.
Or at least favorite or a met Gala No not to have Mecala. I don't, I mean, I don't. I mean, like I love the exhibits. They're like always really great. And then China if it was so good. I still think about the McQueen exhibit. Oh my god, that was.
I actually went the last day it was open, was on my birthday, and I went and the line was five hours long. And thankfully someone I knew was a docent in the museum and saw me in line and like plucked me out wow and took me and I got to cut the line.
That was so jealous. That was I never got to go because the lines were so crazy.
For that speaking of like sort of like the homonormativity of it, all Like I did think it was so hilarious when I moved to New York that like if gays thought themselves to be fashionable or edgy, they all had the Alazon McQueen book.
Yeah, or the Scar or the scar they have either Alzon Queen, Like there's two books for like fashion art gays.
I was in McQueen. Tom Ford they have one of them and then they're there. They're two different types of gays. Okay, what are you? What are your coffee table books? Yeah, I have a lot of them. Actually I do have. I have the China one. Okay, that's I have a tom Ford book. But also actually on the coffee table is none of those books. On the coffee table is a door book, which is a fashion book. But then I also have a tom Finlin book, which is I need two of them? Are me?
That is you I need some more porn for my coffee table. I do have two DVDs that I picked up in the desert. Twink Light is on my coffee and whatever the I think, like the some bisexual porn one.
Good to know that you're.
Looking for some more of porn.
That is my you know category.
Yes, I also have a Vivian Westwood coffee table book. I have.
What else is there?
There's like, oh, I have the Sex and the City books that's bound in pink faux crocodile skin.
Antoine's book that is actually on my coffee table. Okay, okay, sorry for the listeners. It's The Black Black Guard. It's a great photography book. But you were talking about DVD's.
I have.
I own like four.
DVDs and like vintage porn DVDs.
No, no, no, no, just DVD's period. And three of them are born. No, just kidding, I mean they're not far. They're Andy Warhol films. They are the Joe dallas Andro trilogy. Wait, is that the pornographic one? The one they're they're the ones that were there. That's why I was like, they're not born, but.
But they were.
They were banned because they were pornographic, right, Oh, I have no clue.
And I took a fucking Warhol in film class when I was in college and fell in love with those in my hustler too, And so then I was dating someone and he knew that I was such a fan, and so then he because I watched one of them, and then he bought me all three of them. And then my other film was Oh, j Edgar, j Edgar. It's about j Edgar Hoover, but it's like the gay storyline. What's his name? Armie Hammer I think plays his lover the gag there's a gay our favorite. I love Armie Hammer.
I need to get a DVD player so I can watch twink Light. I've also been considering getting the double vhs of Titanic to have on my coffee table.
Oh that's the way. I have Endless Frank Oceans DVD. I bought that. I don't have a DVD player, so I just have all these DVDs, like for Clout, they're art that what they call par exactly.
I have not actually read a lot of these coffee table books.
Yeah for me, coffee table No.
The Vivian Westwood book I have is when my friend got me for my birthday and when he came over to my apartments, heute, He's like, oh, have you read this? Yeah?
I was like, it's a coffee table book, it's just on the table. I haven't cracked my Tom of Finland. I have that, like so my friend Ron Takman love you bought it for me and it's like the double lexcel book.
It's not this one. It's the double cell one. Okay, we're yeah, okay.
And so I think the double XL because a lot of the small books are actually like sections of this book, which is like the full big book. And I refuse to open it because I'm like, I know the second that I open it, I'm not gonna I'm just going to keep opening and those pages are going to get sticky. I don't know about, but like I can just like see like smudges and like the spine, and like I was like, I'm going to have to buy.
Coffee table books are not meant to be read right there. Just sit there and put coasters on your coffee.
You coasters on. Someone put up coaster on my Tom with the then book and I told them to get out. I was like, get oh, I.
Do it all the time with my Vimy and Western one and that's bound in tweed.
That's how they got to wear badly. I just I just decided I'm going to buy another Tom of Fine and I'll open that one.
The anti Leibowitz coffee table book that was I think given to me because I asked for it on like a middle probably at middle school. High school birthday was also bound in tweed. And let me tell you it was nice and I did read through it even though I didn't really understand a lot of was that's actually something that I think is interesting about, like the Vogue industrial complex and its relationship to people that are not in New York or like not regular consumers, like fashion culture,
like in fashion capitals. Is that like I was fully subscribing to something that I actually did not know anything about because of yes, and the brand is an allure of that thrives and makes money off of, for lack of a better word, exclusivity. Like I don't want to make vogues like as insidious is like, because that's just too easy.
But like it is.
Like there is a kind of like you don't understand this, you can't have this. This is a world beyond yours, and that's why everyone wants to Yeah, you don't understand why these two belts look different. You don't understand why, you don't understand who these designers are, and yet I want to be a part of this.
You know, I didn't really know who any Leewits was. Did you cannot fashionable in high school.
No, not really, but I probably was voted most fashionable and.
I was in the in the yearbook.
No, it literally is just like that class bagage. Yeah, class Yeah. And I wore a Juicy Gutur sweatsuit. Harry, Yeah.
I used to have a Juicy Gutur sweatsuit and now grew in and gave it away.
I'm so sad.
I mean, two thousand and six, what else was to wear that.
Is the pinnacle of fashion in two thousand and six. Juicy Tour. Absolutely, But just remember.
I think that Vogue, like I think that like vogue selling point was that there is this like world that like you can't excess, that you can't understand that you can't all these things, and we are your window into that, the gateway, your gay way. And so I think that like that is what they have kind of like leverage
is like the whole brand. And back to a point that I don't think I actually addressed that Rose is making like or maybe it was your friends, that like Vogue has kind of like fallen out of favor or like try or whatever. And I think part of the reason that has been happening is because there are so many other windows now and so you don't need Vogue to be that window. And so like like Vogue obviously
like did not do their transition to digital. Well, like the girls are catching up, they are their paywall scenario is not right. Well, they have a lot of issues, like because like back in the day, like Vogue was like the spot where like people would go but like particularly for like exclusive and all that stuff, like even pr but like now it feels like people go to Vogue to say they were in Vogue because that has a cultural cachet, but they don't go there to reach the consumer.
And so you go to vote and so like no, you can go directly, you can do all these other things.
And so like when people get a cover of Vogue, it's more so about like I'm on Vogue again, Like if Rihanna gets another cover of Vogue, it's about Rihanna's on Vogue. When Cardi b had her I mean, like it's rarely, I think you rarely hear people talking about the story. It's more about the cultural cachet of like
simply being on or in Vogue. Like even I don't even listen to him, but I know this lyric because I wrote about someone in teen Vogue and then they use the lyric for a caption, but like Drake has that song and he says like, are you a model if you haven't been in Vogue?
Yea?
And you know, I mean like it's that that is the cultural cachet of it all, and I think that Vogue also unders stand that today that like it's literally like and that's what they have at this moment, is like it is the cultural cachet of just simply being like related to the brand as opposed to like people you know, actually reading.
Well, it's like the whole thing that happened with that new HBO show The Idol where Rolling Stone wrote this story about how it's like this really embattled production and like a lot of shit is going wrong with it because of San Levinson in the weekend, and then the Weekend like as an Own posted a clip from the show of them basically talking about how irrelevant Rolling Stone is in the show, and it's like not really quite the own that he thinks it is, because in the
scene he who in the show, he's like this cult leader and he is saying to this pop Stars publicist, like, what's the point of her being in Rolling Stone she has like ten times the Instagram followers that Rolling Stone has. But like, the point he's missing is there is still that cultural cachet to for a rock star or a pop star to being on the cover of Rolling Stone that you can't just having a lot of followers is
not the same thing as validation. It is exactly a validated So it's a it's also that's what it is, right, it's a validation of those ten million followers. Yeah, and it's putting you in conversation with all these people with the legacy of the people who have been on the cover, which.
Is why I was gonna let this sit, but I'm going back to it. Yeah, you mentioned Annie Leibovitz, and like all the discourses, that's why. That's what all the discourse around Annie Leibovitz like doesn't understand, is that a part of the thing with the images that Annie creates, the reason why she keeps getting booked, is it's partially because people want to be associated with having an Ani photo. They want to be in conversation with the canon of images that she has taken.
Honestly, sorry, no, that's honest.
On a conversation of like covers in general, which I think that the three of us like might have a lot of opinions.
On people also don't understand why people are on the cover.
Like most of the time, it's like there's so many different like political and financial like mechanations that go into why someone is on the cover, And a lot of times there are like six or seven people that were reached out to first.
Before that cover, are booked before that cover. I've heard those conversations.
We've heard those conversations, and it's like that when when covers come out and people were like, well, why this person, It's like, actually, there's seven hundred reasons why this person isn't usually.
Because there were like five people who weren't available or something.
Yeah, a lot of the time, or also it's just because of something political or something deeply internal to Vogue or whatever magazine that where it's just like the editor had a relationship with this person or this person you know has been on doc for a really long time, or like I'm thinking about like when Rue had her cover or whatever and was like everyone was like finally, It's like most people don't know that, sorry alloydedly that Ru had been asked to do a.
Cover of Vogue for like been on the cover of Vogue. Oh I thought he was on the cover. No, no, no, no, yeah, he had a spread and that was this is what I'm talking about, the Nuance, but that was the Kim Kardashian cover. The camp also was scrutinized. It was scrutinized because people were like, Roue should have been on this cover. Oh, that's why, that's why, that's why it was a camp. And the shoot looked like it could have been a
cover and it was. It was. It was the camp like it was for that exhibit, and it was like the photo of Kim was like this, like she what I think she's like wet hair or something like is this camp or whatever? The fuck?
It's like it's not.
But so then like that story with Rue is I think it's so hilarious, which also was shot by Annie, But did you like read the story which she.
Like about how she tried to get her and he was.
Like, take off the crown and Ru was like no, She was like, it's a whole different thing. If I take off the crown, I'm not taking off.
The But apparently Ru had been asked to be on Vogue many many times and declined. Same thing with SNL and Rue had been asked to be on SNL MA anytime.
I probably I mean with Ru. Rue is also like even before social media and like people were like and more celebrities became more independent and like would say no and decline. Rue would. Rue was very specific about, like the ways in which she wanted to be portrayed and
on what platforms. So for example, I could see Ru being like, I'm not doing Vogue in this track or like I want to do it like you know, this way, and like them being like, well no, we want control, and Ru being like that's great, We're just not gonna do you know what I mean? Yeah, she's always from my understanding is it for a very long time she has been very specific about like what she will and will not do, and if she doesn't think it makes sense, she just won't do it. As much like Anna.
Yeah, honestly, Ruin and Anna are very similar.
Also, like you think they've explored each other's body. Honestly, I am fascinating. I would be fascinated to hear the conversations that have probably had that have been had between
them at least at some point in time. But like, yeah, no, it's they're like, if us, if it's about control with Rue, about not wanting to do it, if it's not about that, it's it's like Ru's like, oh, I'm sorry, Vogue, I'm very busy being the host of a game show, a live Tic tac toe game show, and that is actually more worth my time higher episode.
Yeah we should.
At some point we will wait, have you ever met have you ever met Anna?
Yes? I interviewed.
Okay, wait, what can you so without disclosing you know, is h without disclosing any details.
You don't want to?
What was the experience?
Like?
What did you wear?
First of all, I don't remember, no, no, no no, I literally do not remember.
No no, no, no, I don't. I don't. I really don't. But I think I wore my like blazer, and then I know I wore a wide trouser. Did I wear the black version of this? I think I wore like I'm wearing jack Miss trousers now, and I probably wore like the black version of these. They're like these wide leg trouser. I'm pretty sure I wore that and like a blazer, but I mean it was fine. The thing is that like I've always been told she's extremely straightforward,
straight to the point, and she is. I walk in. I think she's with her seven assistants, No, just one. Like they reach out to me like and we're like, hi, we're like looking for someone for this role. We were. Anna was told that like you would be good for it, she would like to meet with you. And I was like, okay, and you've been summoned. No, that's how I feel.
It feels like a summoning. It's meant to feel like a summoning. They do that on purpose.
And I emailed because they understand it and yeah, and so like I I think I emailed something. I think I guess it's okay or something. And they were like this day this time.
I was like yes, yes, yes, doesn't matter.
So then you're like canceling, like you like nephews like bar Mits or whatever.
You're like, I'm sorry my birthday. So I go into the meeting. She she wasn't in there, like someone that came brought me and sat me down, this like very nondescript from not her office. And she comes in. I shook her hen she has her sunglasses on, she has her resume.
My resume she has.
Printed out scary and I had brought it just in case because I was like, she's an older no offense, she's an older lay fast, no fash. Yeah, I just just like she probably would like to see. And I was like, I'm not gonna assume that she looked at it already. And so she sits down and the first question she asks me is literally I'm not gonna say the exactly, but she's like, oh, I see that this is not on your resume. Like the background check.
That I did on you doesn't quite light her up with the things that are on this is that kind of No.
She was basically saying, like, this skill that is needed for this job resented on your resume. She was like, but I do have your sniffiest profile there, and so like like that was the first It wasn't like was the meeting fifteen minutes? No, no, no, we I think we were in there for like forty. They did tell me that it was going to be like everybody was like, oh, it'll be very abbreviated, but it was.
But Anna decides how long it is, yeah, yeah, yeah, And you go in assuming that it's going to be fifteen minutes. Yeah, she believes that most meeting should be fifteen minutes.
And I assume that it was gonna be a fifteen to twenty minute meeting. We got in there, it was I think it was like thirty or forty, which was like I was like, oh, maybe I did like fine, And then I thought that I completely bombed it because she like at the end she was like, oh, can you do this thing for me? And I thought she just like did that out of habit and like whatever.
But then I had to talk to like the head of people or hr there and they were like, no, if Anna didn't like you, she would have asked you to do nothing. Yeah, she would have said, they would have gotten back to you.
So you're asked for a material, Yeah, she was. He was like, Sarah asked you to do a thing for her. Then like you're still thing. She was like, you're still very much in She's like she's not going to waste her time looking at a thing.
You did you were you nervous?
Oh?
I was extremely nervous. So what did you what was like your body?
Well, how did do you remember anything about like how you felt or like when you walked out and you're like I bombed that, Like what else from the experience can you glean from her mannerisms or like.
I mean, I mean she just wears the same thing. She's like this little dress, like.
She wears the same like kind of Flora's like.
Yeah most of the yeah. And so she looked great, she looked she looked very much like the That's the thing is like it's not like she gets in this caricature when she like goes she every day with the shades and so like thinking about that, I was dagging about was I was like, she's really in this interview with these shades. I was gagging.
I'm thinking about that clip of her when that that woman asked her for her.
I d outside of the car or whatever she was.
She was like like you no wait, Michel came to the studio with no idea, which like everybody, I you were any character girl, you were you were doing.
And I'm saying, I never go anywhere with an I D like you are winter unless I'm going to a club. I'm like, why do I I need papers?
The virgin and the virgins can't see you right now, but you are wearing like wrap around chanelle shades and.
You know, a bob like this is a way to sort of like wrap up, like, what is your your Anna Wintour look like I was when you solidify the fran look that you want to be burned into people's memories? What is it?
Did I ever have a uniform?
Yes, you all know, like when we work together, I you know, wore all black. It was a very easy way to make Zara look expensive. It was a very easy way to you know, not let people see my outfit, not to judge me based on what I was wearing. And you're also colorblind, yes, and I'm colorblind. So it's just like, you know, a layer of things that I
don't have to worry about in the more. And like also like with editors, like our day starts at like six or seven, and so it's just like I don't, like my brain didn't have the capacity to like put an outfit together. Since then, I am now have ENUF for raid into color, And I don't know what my uniform is. I am like a kind of big, big pants, tiny top kind of girl, which is like basic, basic and tiktoki.
But I don't know if I necessarily.
Have a uniform now, But I would like to you have a uniform, I tell.
I kind of do, and I kind of don't. I mean I think that if I was like a like I mean, I yeah, I love a very I like a wide leg trouser. I like a smaller top, and then I like a huge coat over it all because like I kind of love the idea and like I love like something that's a little bit a line when like you have the coat on, because I kind of love the idea of being like completely ensconced in this thing and like people can't really like tell what's going
on with the figure. And then my the reveal of like no, this is bigger, you just see this waste. And then also like everything below the waist is like quite imorphously because it's this huge trouser, but like it's like this small torso like waste. And then like, Okay, this is a great silhouette, which is hilarious because it's just like the silhouette of like having a long skirt like a woman. But that's what I've always like really been obsessed with.
But you, I mean, you look great in an oversized fit and also like wearing all black witch you frequently do like forces you to just think about silhouettes, Yeah, which I think is like texture. I think that that's on the like fashion and styling front. The thing that like most people don't understand when they're like putting an outfit together or styling themselves.
It's like it's like the silhouette matters a lot.
Yeah, particularly yeah, if you take especially if you take color out of this situation, it doesn't matter a lot. And like even this, like I love like little things that are like because if you generally were all black, you get a few like colored pieces in it. Like
obviously they do a lot of work. So like today I have one like black shoes like this black polo, this black huge overcoat from Acne, and these like green jacquesess like wide leg trousers, and the effect when I'm walking down the street and i have my coat on because the code so long, it's like you really don't see the whole trouser. You see like five inches of the trouser. But it's like a little skirts little people.
But then it's also like when I'm walking, like if the co opens, you see these flashes of green of and like I think about that, I'm like I'm like that's so shiite, Like I'm literally walking down thinking about the effect that it's having up like, oh yeah, you're having your ant.
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