You walked so that Kurt on Glee could grapevine.
That's right, she's sheen.
I'm me no ma, not ny no, No, what is your childhood tradah? I am a cook shocker.
You know what's going down the floor like us round.
Welcome to Like a Virgin, the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes.
I'm Ra's Damu.
And I'm Fran Toronto, And I don't know why I like that. It's your birthday, Yeah, it's birthday sing to you? No, no, please don't. I think it would be a great gift for you to not sing wow.
Well, but I'll let it slide with your birthday.
Well you wouldn't let I don't know if you would want Would you want me to sing to you on your birthday?
Are you like?
This?
Is?
Actually? Like I feel like there are two different kinds of people in this world. People that like happy Birthday being sung to them and people that don't.
No, I mean, it's always mortifying, but I would rather it happen than not happen.
Do you find the same?
I mean I did sing I was, I did sing Happy birthday to you last night at your birthday party, But I wanted to give you a private sort of Marilyn Monroe singing, oh okay version of it.
Oh, we were gonna sexy version. Oh I see, so you were you were saving the sexy for this record. I see, yeah, yeah, yeah, you looked great. Yesterday I asked all my friends to meet me at a bar and dress glam, and I will say not very many people were on theme, but you were on theme. Rose.
Well, I did my version of glam, which was I wore a dress, but I wore it over jeans. I'm very much into that sort of like early two thousands dress over jeans thing that's been happening. And Jill or is that my dellery? Duff, it's all the girls, it is. Even when I did my Buffy rewatch recently, there was an episode where Buffy was wearing a dress over jeans and I was like, well, wow, mother says, so, then I suppose it's what we're doing. Did you have fun
of your birthday party last night? I really did.
Yeah.
I mean my goal was to just do something that was casual and easy and had like food and drinks, and people could show up whenever and get a good group picture. And you were able to sneak into the group picture before you snuck off.
I was.
I literally I left, I said goodbye to you, did not to go bye to anyone else, and went and got in my uber that was waiting for me at the curb.
You were like, You're like, and that's a wrap? Yeah?
How late? Did y'all stay at whatever? That place was not that much longer? Honestly, we the night ended a nice and early.
I said, you know that it would end at ten because I didn't want people to like pull up late, and I think we stay there until ten thirty. But like you know, I don't know how you like to do birthdays. I always throw something for myself, like every single time, whether it's like a vacation or a party
or a bar meat or a dinner or something. But I like that event to be not on my birthday so that I'm not stressed on my birthday because I feel like I've learned the hard way that like coordinating and producing my own birthday party is time consuming and stressful and not a good way to spend your birthday.
I don't know.
Usually we go on like a vaca or something I feel like, but we've been.
Do I know it feels weird not to be, you know, like in the desert somewhere celebrating your birthday this year. Well, I'm very happy that we'll be on Fire Island right before my birthday, the.
Simon, That's what I was just about to say. Yeah, Fire Island is going to be that moment. I honestly was texting folks about, like folks that are maybe staying at her house, trying to get those rooms filled. And I'm so excited to go back. Rose like me too.
I do think though, I'm fiending for a vacation and I think I'm gonna have to go away before before the summer. I really need to go somewhere, But I don't know what to do.
Are you eyeing anywhere in particular?
I don't know. I think I either want to like fly somewhere and like do something, but that I also I like don't necessarily want to like go by myself. And then I was thinking maybe of driving somewhere and going to a spa that could be nice in a hotel and just getting Spa treatments for a couple.
Yeah, like Boutiqui spa hotel. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah that's that's sexy, that's mixy.
Are you doing anything self carry for your birthday? Are you self carrying lo? Yeah, I'm self carrying. Laurel and I are gonna go.
We're gonna meet at the gym and do the hot tub and sauna that are at my gym, and that's what most do you go to? I will not say on the pod I go to. We'll cut it tell me yeah, yeah, Phoebe can bleep. I go to Brooklyn. It's very it's pretty. It's closer to you than it is to me, actually.
And that's good to know because I've been looking for a gym. Do you recommend?
It's amazing and it's so bougie and really good vibes, like it's a pretty like there's a there's a lot of queers, there, a lot of lesbians. I don't see any dolls, but I never see dolls at the gym.
Yeah.
I don't really want necessarily to go to a gym where I'll know a lot of people. Yeah, but you know, I don't like at the gym. I want to be invisible.
Yeah yeah, and I am highly visible in my gym, but I don't talk to anybody like I don't like I kind of stay in my own lane and like mind my own business. But I am very very loud. I'm I will Okay, I flirt.
I know that that's a lie.
I do flirt sometimes at the gym. It happens. I do wear I also wear very loud clothing in the gym. I'll be I'll like wear a T shirt that's just like it'll be like I don't know, it'll say like drug addict transsexual not actually, but like we should we should sell a drug addict transsexual TA shirt?
You should, Yeah, coming to like a virgin four twenty sixty nine dot com. By the way, we have merch at that website. If you want to go there and buy some now. It would be a great birthday present for Fran if you did that, and if you became a Patreon at patreon dot com slash like yes, and that is a great birthday present. Do you feel another year older and wiser?
Yes?
Actually, Like I know that's kind of like a throwaway, like sometimes it's like a throwway thing to say or thing to ask, but like I really feel so own. And you know, anybody that listens to this podcast, I think knows that I've just a lot has changed in the last year. And I think last year, during my birthday, this state that I was in, I state that you were in, the literal state that I was in.
The state of California.
Yes, I was a different girl. I was identifying differently. I was not identifying differently, but like, I feel like I was just kind of learning about who I was and knowing who I was. And this year is just like I really do know who I was, and I'm comfied with who I am and like reveling in that. And I think that that's like a very like I'm in my thirties thing.
You know, that's so magical.
But I mean, no one knows where in my thirties and no one should ever know. So don't you dare tell it where my age is shut down?
Fuck you better.
We're bleeping that Phoebe, we're fleeting. We're bleeping.
My age friend said last night that she always wants her age to remain a mystery.
A mystery. So if you if anybody ever asked you, like, oh, I don't know, late twenties or something I don't know.
Yeah, I go up, I say, oh, I think she's like early forties. Yeah, then people are like, wow, she looks so good for her as.
She looks so good for her age. Yeah, that is that is the move. Yeah, but I don't have anything planned. I'm like literally gonna run errands. I'm gonna get groceries, I'm going to take care of Mysel'm going to clean to my house this morning. Cut my flowers?
Did you start unpacking any of your boxes? I find virgins. I finally went to frans new place last week for the first.
Time, and it is lovely.
You have so much space.
I was gagged.
I think probably our apartments have like roughly the same square footage. You just yeah have walls, yeah yeah, and I just have one off, but so much space.
But you you do need to do.
Some unpacking, I think the virgins I do. I'm like really behind, but the virgins should know that we You and I were watching with Laurel Charleston Mulin Rouge and inducting her into that which may or may not she had never seen it, yes, had never seen it. That may or may not be like a virgin content later at some point, but like God, I forgot that movie is I think I I came to realize rewatching it again, that Moonlan Bruge is in my top five movies. I think the top five.
I wonder it's birthday, so let's hear the.
Okay, Mulan Rouge, Moonstruck, cats don't dance. Oh god, I don't know. Maybe that's the three I let said five. Yeah, we said five, yes, and Fran yes and fuck. I feel like I have. I feel like when I think about the things that define me, it's always like TV shows. Is there anything that comes to mind for you that we've talked about in the pod that was like a big the Devil?
Maybe?
No, I mean not.
Hercules Love Herculess is definitely in the top.
Oh my god, girl, you got Hercules is one hundred and ten percent in my top five.
Wow.
Two of my top fives are cartoon movies. What does that say about me?
Parts of the Caribbean?
Shut up.
Wait, I'll think of the fifth. And if I think of the fifth, then maybe it'll be you know, our Patreon exclusives.
Okay, great?
Great, Speaking of which, today we have an episode that's
all about Ugly Betty, which is very exciting. It's Frans Birthday spectacular and we are going to be talking with Marcin Delacado, who played Justin Suarez on Ugly Betty, which is very exciting, and we have some bonus exclusive little tidbits from that conversation that will be available on our Patreon And that's something you can come to expect from our Patreon content is when we are doing these episodes with guests, we will be cutting off some juicy little
tidbits and saving them for patrin On so you can get even more of our conversation with that.
Uh. I'm just so fucking stoked for this episode, Rose and like for the Virgins, Ugly Betty, if you've never seen it before, is a really a wild kind of
like rompy workplace workplace comedy. I would say it straddles like sitcom and soap opera because it's based on a telenovela called Betty La Fea and has a very telenovella vibe in that like a lot of like the plots and character arcs are very absurd and like ridiculous, But the story follows obviously Betty Suarez and her family, which includes Markin Delocado as her nephew and that she you know is an assistant at a high end magazine called Mode that's kind of like Vogue, and the whole vibe
is very like devilwars Prada as a TV show.
Yeah, because it came out in fault. It came out in fall two thousand and six, and then Double War's product came out summer two thousand and six, so it was definitely riding the wave of that, and the douvors Prada had been a book sensation, so like that kind of fashion ee workplace comedy was very in vogue, if you will, especially with Sex and the City having wrapped
up just a couple of years before. Like that was the time and pop culture where everyone was on the hunt for the next Sex and the City and Ugly Betty is definitely like playing in that world a little bit.
And I will say this show is very important to Rose, extremely important to me, and I'm happy to announce that in this episode we are starting, you know, a platform wide like mandate to do Ugly Betty rewatches.
Okay, yes, you.
Can watch it on Hulu. I did a rewatch last month and I really enjoyed myself.
Also, excuse my language, this is not a mandate to rewatch. This is a trend date to rewatch. It's a trend date, it's a FRAN dated, It's a fran date. I everybody needs to be rewatching, like you gotta Rose, You got to push pause on the girl's rewatches. Okay, and we need to you know, we need to. I already we need to watch.
I know.
But I'm saying this because because you're one of the primary influencers of girls rewatches, it's you and Hunter Harris really pushing, really pushing that yes it is. And I think that, well, it's not your fault, it's just your work. And I think that you know, your energies could be maybe like put behind Ugly Betty. You know, a marginalized Latin trans story, you know trans story, Yes, yes, a trans story. There's trans people in this show, and there's
Latin people in this show. And you know it's true.
There are.
I mean not real trans people, but at least trans characters.
Happy Birthday friend. I wait for this episode to relive this conversation with markin Delacado, who you may know and virgins you may know, if not from Ugly Betty from Hacks. And this is so exciting. We've never talked about a cultural object like this with someone who was part of it.
That's insane.
It's been like fifteen years. I don't think that anyone is. I don't think that ugly Betty is going to get me in trouble.
When you say get in trouble, do you mean like get in trouble in this era of your life as in the adult part of your career? Are you talking about like.
Yeah, any No, I think like now, I mean I just like I mean, when I was a kid, you know, like I didn't really say anything that was controversial or anything. I feel like now I have to temper myself. But I'm sober right now, so like I think that I'll be okay.
Oh we love that Rose is also not not drinking. We love we love. Oh you mean like sober in this very moment. Sober in this very moment. You're like, I'm sober right now? Okay?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, cool? Cool? Cool? So can I can I even ask? I don't know if this is the place to start, but like, what's your so what's your relationship to like Betty? Looking back on it, is it is it? Like I know that it was like heat They were like fam for you. They still are fam for you.
Yeah, yeah, they're still fam. I mean I think that the show, like I feel like we've because it's been so many years since the show's been off the air, like we've really stayed family. So like I feel like my relationship to the cast and like especially like on Ortiz,
who's like my best friend in the whole world. She like it's so separate from Ugly Betty now, like because we've known each other longer off the show than we have like when we were actually doing it, Like we only did the show for four years, and I mean, looking back at it, like I couldn't watch I still haven't seen like a lot of the episodes. WHOA really I've seen. I've seen three episodes. I've seen the first episode,
the last episode, and the wedding in season four. Those are the only three episodes I've ever said.
Okay, okay, back up. So you're the virgin, so we're.
Gonna tell you. I mean, I was there, but I was in every episode you were. You were there? Yeah, I was there.
I mean I remember I remember like what like the plots and everything and the storylines, but I just never watched it because I was so like I was so embarrassed by being on TV, which I know sounds like
an asshole thing to say. I actually like just like I was so embarrassed, like but like it was very It was very much like that because I feel like there they were very formative years where kids are assholes anyway, you know, like eleven, I was eleven until I was sixteen, So like, those are pretty shitty years for everyone.
Everything's embarrassing, ugly beddy coming out in two thousand and seven, A lot of not great things about that, media wize, a lot of not great things about that for you as a child actor. Something that's amazing about having rewatched the show so many times, especially now in like twenty
twenty three, deliciously problematic joke, Oh problem amazing, incredible. I like, and I don't say this with any facetiousness, Like sometimes I really do not all the jokes, but sometimes I miss this era where you could say anything, because the thing about making jokes that are like crazy or problematic or just feel dated now is that sometimes.
No, I love it, and I miss that era of TV. I mean I as you know, as a trans person, I love every tranny she mail joke, may on ugy Betty. I wish we were still making them today.
I mean, I remember one that sticks in my mind of like a problematic joke. I think it was Wilhelmina that said something about Betty like and a mud hut or something like that, like something so wild and like. The thing is, though, is that, Like, Yeah, I think that there are plenty of things that obviously don't hold up now, but I think that, like it's so important to have had that, Like, you can't learn from anything unless it's like out there, do you know what I mean?
Like we can't like have like comprehensive conversations about like political correctness and like representation and like and language, et cetera, like without examples of it being wrong out or like being out there.
Do you know what I mean?
You can't grow from something that isn't out there and being like interrogated, you know.
Yeah.
And it's not like it was problematic and bad. It was still always funny. It was the story Listen.
It was like one of the it was like the most popular show on.
TV, Like, and I think that, like, yeah, I mean, and the thing is is that, yeah, like you can't say a lot of the things that we said on there then, But like at the same time, you know, I think that people are just so quick to be like, we can't watch this anymore because they said one thing that can be read as like transphobic or like where it's just like girl, I mean, like take it for what it is and for what it was, Like you just let it live is what it was.
And put it in put it in the context of its time. You can still.
Appreciate it exactly like Ugly Betty as it was would never come back in the same way, do you know what I mean? Like we we've had these discussions before.
It would be like and just like that.
Girl, and like I don't know about all that, you know what I mean, and just like that it's not right.
It's just like that.
You know. Well, look, if you ever if you ever hear back about the Ugly Betty rebate, you better loot me.
In Divine we talk at it all the time.
The thing is is that we all want to do it and like it's it's really it's I mean, we're all asked about it so often and literally every single one of us says, you know, completely seriously, like we would do it. It's just a matter of like what
is it? Yeah, you know what I mean, Like we and we've had we've like when we get together, we have these like kind of hypothetical discussions about like would it be like of a reboot of just like one season, like a limited series, like of like five episodes, would it be a movie?
Would it be? Like what would it be?
And I think that everyone has kind of agreed that we would like to do like four or five like episodes and like you know, four or five like hour long episodes and like wrap up like all of the loose ends that were not wrapped up at the end of the season, of the end of the series.
Because I will say, I will say I want more and I would love a reboot, Like I think a limited series sounds amazing. But I also think Ugly Betty is a great example of a show that while I think it was gone too soon, like it never got the chance that I think, unfortunately a lot of long running shows had back before everything got canceled after two seasons. It never got the chance to get bad. It was, oh, it was good. It was perfect the entire time it was on air.
It's very like, I mean, we were so sad when it ended, because it ended so abruptly, like they just kind of like I mean to be honest, like the network just fucked us and like just kept moving it around and like so viewership was lost. And then you know, you can argue like, well you just don't have the ratings, and it's like, well, you moved us from Thursday to Wednesday to Friday within the matter of a month, you
fucking idiots, Like are you hidding? So, like, of course people don't know where to find it, Like when it was on Thursdays at eight, you moved it to Wednesdays at ten and then Fridays at nine. It's like no one knows where to find the show. And like also so this is before streaming services, so like there was no like you can watch it on Hulu the day after, Like that didn't that wasn't a thing. So like, yeah, viewership was lost at the very end because we no
one knew where to find us. And I think it was just an excuse. Again, like while when you have things that are so revolutionary and break all of these barriers and make people like question things and and kind of like look inward at themselves and the ways in which like they look at other people like there's going
to be backlash to all of that. And I think that while Ugly Betty had so much, so much, so many fans and like such a huge fan base and inspired so many people, et cetera, you know, there's the flip side to that, and a lot of people really didn't like it. And I mean, I think that there's also it's very parallel again to like the conversations that we're having now about like banning drag shows and like
you know, like trans like transrites period. You know, there there was like a lot of conversations when we were making the show about Justin being a sexualized character of it, like grooming children, like all of those same things and rhetoric that we hear now it's just utterly hysteric that we'd used. It's just recycled. It's just for just applying it to different things. So it's like or to different communities.
Like Justin was considered to be this overtly sexualized child, but like in reality, the you would only looking at him as being sexualized means that you're sexualizing him, do you know what I mean?
Like, I don't think there's a.
Show where the writers explicitly made him a sexual.
Now when that critique would never be applied to a straight character ever.
Correct.
I mean, you know two gays too, like boys kissing, It was just be it was considered to be like grooming and this and that and you know, all of the language again that we hear today in reference to like drag, trans people, gender affirming healthcare.
Et cetera, et cetera. Like it's it's it's the same ship.
And we just want to say for the record, like right here and now that like ugly Betty did groom me. I am gay because.
I love Justin. I'm so happy that perfect.
Yeah, I'm gay because of Justin. I'm trans because of Rebecca Romains.
She is motherless, Meed is lord girl.
And I'm gonna keep my mouth up.
On one Rose Rose, And I have said before Rebecca Romaine is Transcannan because she was also Mystique, which is a conically trans.
Character and she and like it's right, I didn't even think.
Of it, Yes, canonically trans, and like that's fucking fear. We're not gonna, you know, wade into the weeds of like you know, trans. Yeah, I'm surely try to do all that, we're not going to do that, but we have to say, like trans vengeance is something that is underrepresented in media. And if I could fake my own death in a ski accident and come back as a woman.
And you come back and a white late and paintball people.
And put myself on the cover of my own magazine and be like I am here and I own fifty one percent of this company. All of you family members that like ousted me before.
You didn't believe in me, You don't fuck with you, you said.
You would disown me. It's over for all of you, Like, don't fuck with me.
So I do hope I get the chance to pick what I death one day. But then the gag will be that I'll.
That sounds pretty fierce.
We'll see I so literally, like I I That's what I was kind of getting at with the two thousand and seven thing is like I would absolutely love to watch a show in twenty twenty three about a trans woman that fakes thrown death and comes back, you know what I mean, Like that's iconic, that's amazing, Like but it's because you know, we have these ideas of like representation that get where we tiptoe around the stories or were like we were just like too scared about what
we can happen. Like I don't know if anybody would ever do that again, And I like.
Know, we need we need more, we need trans villains, and like it's it's so funny because at the time the culture had the ability to have a trans villain because you know of mainstream transphobia and just like the lack of representation. But it actually was because of that that we got to have this like delicious character in a way that I don't know, I don't regular exist today because people would be too scared of.
Being I mean, I think that like the only way that like to in my opinion, representation is only going to be complete and well rounded if you see people in every in like playing every role, like everything can't you can't. Every trans character can't be a victim or we only see trans people as victims. Like there are plenty I have met plenty of trans people.
That sucks. Yes I'm one of them. I've met plenty of stray people that fucking suck.
The boys suck, like you know what I mean, Like people like people are people, and like the thing is is that you can't fully humanize someone or a community without seeing all different facets of like the human like identity, like of like the human condition. People suck period Like people that suck. I mean, listen, I'm like, I really truly like feel like you can't. It's not well rounded representation unless you see all different facets of like the
human condition. And some people just fucking suck. It doesn't matter what their identity or their pronouns are.
Say say that.
Okay, you know I have to I have to ask what was it like working with Vanessa Williams, Because I mean, if you want to talk about the mother of mother's.
That, let's talk about.
Yeah.
I was about to be like, well that's mother.
And then Judith's other mother will get to her. Oh man, well Vanessa Williams. The thing is is that when we started, I I was a huge fan of America Frearra because sister heard of the Traveling Pants out that maybe a year or two before and before that got to kick it up on the Disney Channel.
Was my tea.
So like when I met her, like that's the only person that I knew who and I was like like gobsmacked. But like when we went to set and my mom. My mom was obviously with me, and Vanessa was there. I had no idea who Vanessa Williams was, and my mom was like freaking out by her. And I was like, who is this and she was like, you'll you'll know someday. She was like, you'll you'll understand someday. And the thing is is that Vanessa is just a very regal individual.
Like she is she's the nicest, most caring, nurture person. But the bitch is scary, like when you first like just just because she like looks like that, and like, is just she's established mama, Like she's just she and she knows she she knows what she's giving.
She knows she is the divadal herself.
That's right, and like, but I so I think that I was quite afraid of her for a minute. But I think that that very quickly dissipated when I got to work with her, because it was in the very beginning of the show, in the first season, like it was kind of divided, like mode family, you know whatever.
And then slowly but surely, as the season progressed and then the series progressed, like they we all kind of intertwined with each other, and my first bit was with Michael Yuri and Becky Newton, and then that quickly went into Justin and Wilhelmina kind of working together and kind of talking. Like I remember shooting the bit where she she was wearing a blue outfit and she had sunglasses.
She was I knew, I knew you couldn't see I knew.
You were going to say this episode where you were the seeing I gay Mark or like I think Mark was the seeing I gay Mark.
And then you took go and then he left, yes, and so and that was again it was crazy because I was so intimidated by her, and it becomes so quickly comfortable with like Anna and America and Tony Plana that like going in and working with like like I think at the time, Michael Ury in the first season, Michael Ury's the age that I am now. So Michael was twenty eight when we first started filming the show.
So and that's how old I am right now. So like I think that, Uh, I think that it's also kind of funny to think about, like me now working with like an eleven year old. I'd be like, oh, you know, like it could be very like ugh, you know, like and I like, I get that now, and so I think that, like, and the thing is is that it wasn't like that at all. They were so patient with me, you know, because you can only be so
professional as a kid. You know, like you're just stoked to be there and like you're you have all this energy, you're super hyper, but like there's also all of these logistics to consider, Like I could only work a certain amount of hours a day, so like I would they would shoot all of my stuff and then the rest of them would have to be there to finish, ok, and like finish the scene.
So like they were very, very very patient with me.
And I think that that was also it it informed the way that I kind of work now and my professionalism now because I looked at the ways in which these people were chipper and happy to be there to do their job. But also like, you know, when it's time to shut the fuck up and act, it's time to shut the fuck up and act. Look, I mean,
and I learned that from Vanessa too. Like Vanessa was very she's the first, she's the first one to want a key, key, But when it's time to like get the job done, mama, let's get get it done, you know.
The someone saying you know, you'll know some day about like Vanessa Williams is like that was definitely my experience as well. Vanessa one, Yeah, I found.
I I literally liked has come. I So Betty was my first.
Impression of Vanessa Williams, which is crazy because she's an icon of legend, has like a whole breadth of work that preceded it, and like, but I do. It was retroactive for me as well, because I remember just watching it and being like, she's an icon, She's so magnetic.
Everything she says is funny, and even as I rewatched this past month, like every single fucking joke is so funny, and and and when by the time they got to season three and season four there were the guardrails around the propriety of Wilhelmina were like let down a little bit,
and she got to be wackier and whackier. I'm thinking about like when she, you know, met the drag queen that does impressions of her and then she did like a whole you know, song and dance about it, or like she just or or in the fourth season where Betty, I mean America is finally looking like America basically, and she looks gorgeous and she has taste now and like Wilhelmina notices that she has taste and it gives her an aneurysm and she collapses and goes to the hospital. It's like so much.
That's the thing too.
We I think that also, Like the great thing about Silvio was that, and the writers, like all of the writers, was that as we like, they really believed in everyone's individual talent and like and and really like honed in on what we were all good at and like ran with that. And I feel like the you know, we'll talk about it in a bit, but like Hacks is the same exact way, like Paul Lucia and Jen is
now that we're filming the third season. From season one to now, they you get in a groove with people and you like working with them so closely you're like, oh, why don't they do that? Because there, you know, I saw a glimpse of that when we were like sitting around like talking or whatever, you know, And I think that at first, you know, the Wilhelmina character was very intentionally cold, distant, not very silly, like not very silly,
extremely hilarious, but like not silly. And then, as you you know, get to know a person like Vanessa, who is very whimsical as an individual, You're like, oh, why, like let's play into that, Like, let's let her do something silly because she can.
She's an incredibly gifted comic actress. Just the way she uses her body, the way she uses her eyes is incredible.
A look, I mean a literal look, you know.
And I think that that is like they played to all of those strengths of her being like this bitch and this like bitchy devilwares prodra Miranda Priestley type of like archetype, but like really expanded upon that and let her have like a lot of fun. And I think that that is like and they let us all do that.
I mean, Ana Ortiz is like the epitome of like just comedic genius and that like more is more and bigger is better and somehow it never Hilda never became like gimmicky, even though she was doing the absolute most all the time. And I think that that as like a comedic actor, to be able to toe that line between complete absurdity but grounding it in reality is like the is truly like genius.
And also having I mean, I was so happy earlier when you said that the two of you are still so close because.
I think I have her tattooed on.
That, because like your relationship on the show was I think one of the emotional cores of the show. And one of the things that I loved about Ugly Betty and I think that endoored is that it's this like wacky screwball comedy but it has so much heart without becoming cloying much and it felt real and it's so nice to know that it was and that that has endured.
Yeah, Anna, Like I think that you know, we became so close so quickly because that was her doing. Like I think from the first table read, it was like you're gonna play my son. We need to get to know each other, and again like that whole feeling like you have a seat at the table as a kid, where like you're not being put at the kid's table, Like I think that that was a little bit it.
There were moments where it was very jarring for me to be treated like an adult, but I'm so much better for it because they all treated me like I'm now treated as an adult working, so like I kind of got that education really early, and you know, there were some times where like there was one time that I forget what it was, but it was like getting late.
It was like later.
No, it was early in like season two or something,
and Anna said something. I forget what it was, but like it was it was kind of harsh, and I I like remember, I like started crying and it was like this one thing where we and we've talked about it like since, where she was like, I just got so used to treating you like an adult that like I forgot that you were a twelve year old kid and like but and so while like that's just an example of how jarring it could be as a kid, Like I'm so much better for it, because, you know,
I feel like as I became a teenager and we finished the series on and I you know, she made me a better actor. Like I really wanted to impress her and I wanted to be a good scene partner for her, and I think that like I wouldn't have gotten there if she didn't treat me like she treats any other actor. You know, Like I wasn't given a pass because I was a kid, and I think that that's like that's a good thing.
Yeah, you know, you you've only seen three episodes of Uglybody I have. I have to tell you, you know, just just because you haven't seen them, that in case you weren't aware, you Slade like you you you are just you Slade. You are a scene stealer, girly like holding your.
Own against some very impressive and I must I imagine intimidating actors.
Yes, so whether you are like performing hairspray on the empty a or like you know, like all of the shit, Like you are just such a scene stealer. You are so magnetic and so big, and yet it's not like imbalanced, right, you were always like matching the energy of everyone around you, and I think that's the same in hacks, Like damn you were just you're so good And I'm honestly I'm resisting like fangirling to the to the best of my
ability in in this in this year record. But like you you have to have to know that, like like I was justin like I'm not a gay boy anymore, but like I was that and like I know, like it sucks being I know so many of my friends now that you know that are in the public eye, and you know, being a role model is such like
a weird, like kind of strenuous thing. Yeah, but like I, you know, grew up in a family that didn't understand queerness and then didn't you know, accept and it's this is like a very Latin thing too, righte Like there's there wasn't a ton of like nuance or acceptance or like even conversations about like queerness at all, because you know, at least with my household, there's a lot obviously like a lot of machismo, but it was mostly like we don't talk about it saying and that was something that
was really beautiful about Justin and his character. And you know, I I feel like I just grew up with Betty and grew up with Justin and and had and much like you, I also had a high school romance, like and I had a high school romance with someone that I was in a play with, like and our first kiss was literally.
On a stage, so you really were him?
Yes, our first kiss literally was on a stage. It was crazy crazy. But I've said this on the pod before. I work in media because of Ugly Betty. I watched ugly Betty pre college and I just remember watching America Ferrera get like treated like shit in like the magazine industry, and you know.
You said I want to I said that.
I was like, and I want to go do that.
And what's like absolutely insane is like only I'm only realizing this on my most recent rewatch. I did not realize this in real time or even with my second rewatch.
Looking back retroactively, I went thrue so many real ass Teyle Novela asked things that happened in media actually happened to me, like editor rivalries, like I went to like a publishing boot camp that like Betty also went to, like transvengean stories like photoshoot drama, like booking cars from Brooklyn, Brooklyn to Manhattan to Brooklyn to Manhattan, like you know, getting too close to your boss, Like oh my god. That's like Another crazy thing about the show is like boundaries,
like a boundary. The fact that Betty, like they doesn't have boundary, did not exist, they don't have boundaries, has no boundaries with her work or her family. Is like the coming out, like the fact that they wanted to throw justin a coming out party, like it's just like no fucking boundaries.
Oh.
One of my favorite lines in the show is in that episode where Ignacio says, the guys don't have a favorite color.
They like them all, they like them all. We know you're gay, and that's okay.
I also, though, we also have to talk about the way that I mean, we have to talk about the fashion of Ugly and the way that it predicted literally everything happening in fashion right now. Like I go on TikTok and I see like tiny Jewish Girl and all these other like maximalist girlies, and like Ugly Betty was the pink print period.
I mean.
The thing is is like, I mean, Patricia Field girl, what hello?
You know?
And people mean enough said, people.
Are not giving pat Fields credit in this show, like they were only thinking about sex and the city and all this other stuff she was.
Because the thing, well, the Devil Wars product came out three months before Ugly Betty premiered, so and we I remember honest saying to me like, if this movie's a success, our show is going to be a success. Like and well, wow, you know the rest of it. But pat was is such a character, I mean, like she is an end to work with. Her is to be like just I
mean like GOB's act. Like we would go in and have like I would have like two hour fittings, you know with her and and she would sit I mean she would sit on a chair with her dogs with a cigarette and just like and and she would put me in like the I mean, you know, things that would never get approved. Like there was a there was I remember we had to do like an outside scene and she had this huge black faux for like pimp coat to the floor and was like, I think Justin would wear this.
And they're like like no, like no, I mean. And the thing is too, is that, like I mean I was were I.
Think season three I exclusively wore Mark Jacobs, like all Mark Jacobs and so and and the thing is is that like Betty too. Like Betty's glasses, for example, they couldn't find the glasses, like they just they tried on hundreds of pairs. America tells this story, hundreds of pairs. They couldn't find the glasses, and Pat took the glasses off her face put them on America And those are Betty's glasses.
You're shitting me. God, they were on Pat's face. They were Pat's glasses. That's iconic.
That's that goosebumps.
Those were Pat's glasses and she put them on and they looked in the mirror and they were like, that's it.
Those are her glasses. That's the thing.
And yeah, I mean America was also wearing like I mean, if you really look, if you like do if there was like an instagram like every outfit on Sex in the City or something for Ugly Betty, that was like breaking down these looks. Like Betty would be wearing upwards of ten thousand dollars worth of clothing, and she was wearing like Gucci skirts, and I mean she was wearing
like new fashion. Yeah, yeah, like I mean, and and the thing is is that Pat is truly the queen of like the high low, you know, like you would be wearing a Versace suit but like you know, put it with like a belt that she found on Canal Street, you know whatever. And and her entire team like Molly and Paolo and Jackie and all of them, like they
also spoke like this shorthand with each other too. That was like so incredible to see, like from even like are the people that would dress us like Kevin Mark, I remember like they were all so stoked to like work with her, and I think that like it wasn't lost on anyone, like the legendary legend status of miss pat and like no one does it like her, like no, and no one has done it since like her. I think that there have been very valiant attempts to try and do what Pat Field.
Does and just it just doesn't. It's just not that once in a generation kind truly like she was. She was the moment.
And and also in speaking to like this kind of what you were saying Fran about like not of their not being like one favorite character or like one per I mean, of course the show was about Betty, but like no one was also given like preferential treatment based on like like pat never looked at one character and was like this is a throwaway, like just put them in whatever, Like she and the team had true visions for like what each of these characters individually looked like,
even like Ignacio, you know what I mean, And like it wasn't it's not always just about like who was wearing like the newest designer clothing, it's like what makes sense for this character? And it was very very deliberate
and very intentional. Like I think Hilda was probably one of my favorite, like aesthetically favorite characters because she was just so radically Hilda, Like there was no like and only Anna playing Hilda could wear those clothes in that way and tell the story that it was telling, do you know what I mean? Like it was it would have been if if I wasn't playing Justin. I think Justin might have looked a little bit different.
The clothes never wore the character. The characters were the clothes, and it was such a like perfect symbiosis.
Yeah, I think that that and and I and I think that that just lends itself to like people that genuinely care about like their work too, you know what I mean. Like there, I think that there was just there's a true passion there and I and it's like it was so inspiring to like be around too, because I mean, you know, we would see our like little outfits and then you see like Vanessa walk out of her dressing room and like a vintage for sauce suit and you're just like fuck, like so fierce.
The clothes were part of this like authentication of the characters really, and with Ignasio and Hilda, specifically, like those two characters were archetypes in a Latin family that were so scary close to just people in my life, people in the lives of other folks that I know that I've watched Ugly Betty, like I have an Ignossio in my life, like I have a Hilda in my life, and like and something that you were saying, like you know, they didn't they didn't have to. It wasn't just like
who's wearing the hottest designer clothes. I think that's something that's so brilliant about like the language of clothes like in this show is that, Yeah, it would have been too easy for you know, if Betty if like Ugly that they were made today, she'd be like, you know, stomping out in like a Chipova luena like skirt or whatever, like you would think, but like what to actually incorporate thrifting and to know that, like Betty would wear this butterfly belt right, like.
Well, that's also like telling the story of like telling the story of how are these people getting And that was also Pat had to has a distinct talent for that, Like when she would fight for things for us to wear, it would be like, well, he can wear the mark Jacob's thing because he knows fashion and like found it somewhere.
He found it at Beacon's closet.
Absolutely on, like you know, so like she also had a backstory for how we got into these outfits, like what what the thought process was when each of these characters gets up in the morning and gets dressed, which again, like that's just an amount, that's just an extracurricular work, you know what I mean.
And not all costume designers do that, like I've been no, most of them do not. Yeah, I've been rewatching Buffy recently, and like they're in high school all wearing like Dulchanabana and Prada, and I'm like, I don't know that teenagers.
Have access to that, and unless it's like a deliberate choice, like unless it's just like the euphoria of it all, yeah know what I mean, Like where it's like okay, like I get it, like you've you've made this world
like this. But like I think that with with Ugly Betty, they obviously wanted it to be fantastical in some way, but not necessarily like aspirational in the same way that I think like fashion now kind of exists on like it, like for in Euphoria, for example, it's like the intention is that, like you want all like a bunch of gen zs to like want to look like them, whereas I feel like on Ugly Betty, like that was not necessarily the case, Like it wasn't that you want people
to like want to dress like Wilhelmina or or Amanda or Betty. But if people identified with the characters because the clothes made so much sense to the character, then it just tells a different story.
I think it's just a deeper story.
I do have such a deep spot in my heart for Amanda. I know I love no favorites, but like Amanda was one of the I love Amanda.
I mean we always talk about like if we were to do a reboot that like Amanda would still be the receptionist at Mode like that. She's like like we all like have changed and grown and are doing different things, and Amanda is like just still the receptionist in the circle desk as long as Becky Newton can play one or two additional characters like I'm good like her, I mean Amanda.
Oh my god, wish another storyline that could not happen today, but it's so funny, so good.
Like I'm sorry it was funny. I think it was funny. I don't care.
It was come for me another brilliant comic actress.
Oh my god, it was knowing it was knowingly stupid, you know, I mean, and like, yeah, the thing like with like someone like Becky Newton too, is like all of that the characterization that she did of Amanda, like physical manifestations of it, like the way she would like walk down the hallway with the hand on her hip and like so exaggerated like runway like things like that where you like, looking back, I'm just like, whoa. These are such talented actors that had such a point of
view about their character. Like I just I'm like in awe of like the just the choices that they made, even like and the way that Anna would walk as Hilda, like that's not the way that she like it, you know what I mean. It's just these very small things that I recall that at the time I was just like, oh,
like whatever, they're doing it. But now having matured and like you know, thinking a little bit more critically about like my craft and like what it is that I do for a living looking back at some of the choices that the Betty cast made, small choices like that that just have become so synonymous with their characters as well. Like you think of Amanda like stomping down the tube, you know, in this very dramatic, like ridiculous way, but it's because it's like become canon as like that's Amanda.
Amanda slash Becky, like I think is a great example of like just like what you can't write right, you know, like like like her the hand of the hip like walk swish thing that you're talking about, like immediately in my mind, I know what it looks like and and yeah, you can't write that, right you the character.
Well no, I mean you can't.
And the thing is is that to take something like you know, to take a stage direction, especially like Wilhelmina like looks Betty up and down or like things like that, like you know, sure that can be written into a scrap, but like the way that that materializes is up to you or you know and so, and no one could do it the way that Vanessa Williams did it, Like Amanda like walks away like that's very vague, you know, she could have but the choices that Becky made are
like incredible, you know, I mean, and Michael URI's a master at that stuff too.
It's this it feels like it's similar to Hacks two, where like you can tell that in the casting they were reaching out to people that already had a kind of way of inhabiting a set, a way of like speaking talking, and that that helped their characters become so specific and.
Like I think in their world, I think that Hacks and Ugly Betty, I think that like I have, I immediately felt this kind of electric feeling going onto the set of Hacks because it felt so similar to Ugly Betty in just kind of the culture of like everyone
really got along from the jump. Everyone felt like I felt like there was a real notion that like everyone is here for a reason, no one is like as a throwaway character, Like everyone is important, and Paul Lucci and Jen like really hammered that home from the beginning. But I think that like the ways in which Ugly Betty might have told a story like the using clothing a lot of the time, and like, you know, I feel like Hacks, that story is told a lot in
like our candor each individual character's candor. I think Paul Lucci and Jen and the writers of Hacks are like probably the greatest writers I've ever gotten a chance to work with. And because it's very rare that you read a script and like laugh out loud, but we're constantly all like cracking up in these table reads because the
words themselves are so fucking funny. And so I think that it's each character has their own like, yeah, their own candor, their own like flavor, you know, And I that none of the other characters have, you know, like Ava, you know, like Hannah Einbinder's like portrayal of Ava, and Meg's Dalters Kayla and Poppies and Poppies, Kiki and My, Damien and Carls Marcus are all and and Paul's Jimmy like they all somehow meshed together, but like they couldn't
be more different. And I think that that also it's really hard to do, you know, It's really hard to kind of like flesh out characters with out actively fleshing them out. Like I feel like one of the things that was confusing to me when we first started Hacks is that like Damien kind of pops in and out, you know, and I've said this before, and I like
that Damien is kind of this enigma. I mean, we learn a little bit more about him in season three, but like not you know, but like I kind of like the idea of him being this person that's just like he comes to work, he does his job. He's good at it, and he doesn't have time for nonsense, you know, and doesn't like comedy. Yeah, And I think that like there were like I think at first I was searching for like who is he and like whatever, and I think that I was just being a little bit too.
Actory about it.
Like I was just like it's all like everything that I need is right in front of me. Like he's Deborah's assistant. He has no time for bullshit. He doesn't really like Ava, and you know, Marcus is his boss, and he has no time for people like Kayla or something, you know, like And I think that that to have so little but no so much is a testament to like apology and jen for sure, because I think that I was just so confused. It's like what is my what's my motive? And they were like to do your
job and I was like that's simple. But that's but like that that says so much.
You know, it must be a great feeling to have, you know, had this role an ugly Betty and like not been sure if you were going to come back to acting and then come back on a show like this where it seems like there are so many parallels in terms of like the work you're getting to do and the community of people you get to do it with.
Yeah, it's like, I mean, someone asked me recently, like how do you choose such great projects?
And I'm like, I did not.
I don't choose projects like I'm not there, you know, like I I mean, after I graduated college, I realized that I didn't want to go to graduate school whatever. And I was like, I guess I'll move back to LA and like try and make it work. And no one would hire me. Like I'm just going to be like completely honest, Like no one would hire me. I could not get a job, Like I wasn't even getting like a callback for anything. Like it was really bleak
for like a few years. And then twenty twenty happened, and you know, the pandemic, and I, you know, surely wasn't working. And then I was like it was November and I was like, if I don't get a job by January of twenty twenty one, I'm just going to have to like go back to school or like do something, because I'm going to like quit.
And then I got Hacks in November of twenty twenty.
Wow. That's I mean, and it's so grateful for it, like part of what you were saying earlier about just like what actors bring to the table, and with Hacks specifically, like I do think that you bring a specificity. I think every character in Hacks brings a very specific comedic style. And I think that someone like Meg is a really great example of that. Someone like Poppy is a great example of that. It's like irreplicable. I mean, everybody's gonna try and copy what like you do or what like
Meg's aalter does. Everyone's trying to do what Meg is doing.
But everyone's trying to do it right now, but no one's Meg.
Yeah, And that specificity like lent itself to y just like the characterization and everything that makes these characters breathe.
Again, Like that just speaks to Paul and Luccia and Jen the and the the like vision that they had for this show. And like again, like, you know, even though the show is about Debora Vance and Ava and their relationship, you know, everyone in the ensemble is extremely important. And I mean I also like, just in terms of like what I like to watch, I like to watch shows about an ensemble.
I like an ensemble cast.
I mean, I love like Avid Elementary right now that my friend Tyler's not, like, you know, I love I love that kind of quick pace that an ensemble cast kind of a Forde You don't spend too much time on one person at you know, like you're jumping around, You're getting to see different you know, and then that opens the door too for like individuals to interact that wouldn't necessarily interact, you know, And I think that that's
it's just fun. Like I think that it just keeps us on our toes too, to be like, what is Damien doing this episode?
Who is he with?
I also think a good ensemble means that the world of the show feels real.
And that's sure.
That's the thing I think that really does that really sticks out to me about both of these shows we're talking about, is they because of the specificity of the characters and the way they interact and the fact that none of them are siloed only with certain people, and that they all co mingle. It does feel like a really like fully realized, fleshed out world. And I think that's why people love the show so much.
And you can see I think that we were talking about earlier is like applicable here is that like sometimes these people suck, you know, like there's no universally good person. You know, there's no universally virtuous person on hacks, you know what I mean. We're all kind of fucked up
a little bit. And I think that that again, that's what grounds it in the world, like because they're made to be human, like the like the I don't know, the peaks and valleys of the debra of a relationship for example, that like she loves her even though she's getting sued, even that you know, like it like the complications, the con like how confusing human relationships actually are and how complex human relationships actually are.
That like you know, and and people fuck up a lot.
And I think that like so like human like making these people human, I think makes the world seem real, I guess, and.
That's a career illness.
That's something that makes it I think also just fun to watch retroactively, like we were you know, joking about how it's problematic now or whatever. But like if we we say on this show, I mean this is actually kind of like the whole conceit of like like a virgin in general, is that like we these like things that come from the past, like and quote unquote the
past two thousand and six. You know they uh, it's not that like we shouldn't watch them anymore because they're problem but it's that we need to revisit them and put them in the context of today. Like that's the whole thing about It's like if we, as like a culture decided to categorically like boycott slash girl cott like anything that they caught they caught, Yeah, yeah, anything that we if we categorically just decided we're not watching this anymore,
like canceled, like we can't watch it. It's like that is not growth, that's not justice. It's it's about taking it, bringing it back and then keeping it in its own context.
Yeah, what do we what did we learn here? You know, what what did we learn here? What can we keep? And what do we need to change?
You know, like what can we bring what can we bring into the now and what stays in two thousand and eight, you know, and that's part of them, And that's what I would like.
To bring a couple of Betty's outfits into the now specifically.
That's right, honestly, Okay, you were saying we need in every outfit on Ugly Betty on top Market. I definitely looked for that handle. It's like the handle has been kin Yeah.
I don't know who's going to do it. It's surely not going to be me.
Yeah, I don't know if I have this to do all of like the wardrobe research, but like it really would be so good.
I would be fears right I did.
I recently tweeted about all like a lot of like Betty's outfits and just how like Pat Fields like create like really was the beginning was like kind of the early adopter of like cluttercore, like this kind of Alessandro Gucci kind of.
I mean that's like literally what it was like no one was wearing socks and pomps. Yeah, Like no one was wearing socks and palms.
Now every girls are now It's like in every every product me collection is socks and kitten heels. Yeah, you know, I I want to ask, maybe this is like a as we're like winding down, here cameos on ugly Betty Oh yeah, my god, just to rattle off a ton like Adele Shakira, Victoria Beckham, Kristin Chena with Martha.
Stewart, Lindsay Lohan, Lindsay, Okay.
Look, don't forget about Leelo, Kathina Jimi as like the fairy god orthodontist. Like yes, like literally like the cast.
Of Wicked on Broadway, truly yes.
And let it be said, tim God like Lucy Lou Like it is just that the taste was there and it's funny. Like something that I kind of realized as I was rewatching now was that there's so many people that I just didn't have in appreciation for when I watched it as a kid, because I didn't know who a lot of these people were. I was in a
cultural vacuum. It only retroactively. You're like, oh, like the casting, there's such a taste level in the casting, whether it's someone like Octavia Spencer Monique has like the funniest like bit, Like.
I mean, it's just crazy like having like someone like Octavia Spencer, who I remember working with like she was so sweet, so kind, so good, so fucking and like and like I just remember I remember when she was on the show, everyone being like my god like and and also like people had known her because she'd been around forever and like but she wasn't.
An Oscar winner.
Yeah, well no, and and I feel like but I just remember the the energy that she brought, like and there, like there's a scene where she like is like MASSI us reaching out and like I like and I remember I remember that because we were shooting another scene that and we were there and she like improvised that, you know, like she's like she's I mean, I just remember her being like so fun to be around and and and bringing this energy and like and again like just working
with a person where you're like, whoa, they're really good and like the choices that they make are really smart.
I mean, I didn't know who Patty Lapone was, no idea.
Yeah, I'm sure.
And now someday again, the some day came for all of these people. Who else was there?
I mean there were a lot of designers, a lot of I remember Victoria back and being very nice. Is Isaac mus rocky Isaac ms Rockey Zach Posen was on Area Adriana.
I I feel like I'm honestly okay. The The Octavia Spencer's last episode one of my favorites, the last reading, like I remember that from like I've I will constantly just like say, got a loans to.
Certain things stick out in my mind of like you know, of things that I maybe saw clips of or was there for, like little lines, little things that were done. I remember like when uh, when Judith Light was in when Claire was in jail and and justin I still have it. I think it's at my parents house. I have the free Claire shirt. Go wow, somewhere It's like, what do you.
Mean somewhere my memory? It should be right there.
In memory it right now.
A box of Ugly Betty stuff at my parents' house. Like when we when we got canceled, we were all so upset that we just like went and stole everything. So everything, honey, so everything, the box of Ugly Betty paraphernalia.
You and I are going to back channel about that. I'm gonna be we can buy some of that off of you. The Octavia Spencer episode something that I just think it's emblematic of like something that's like so juicy with every single character came through this show is like again and I personally am trying to like mandate Ugly Betty Rewatches, like we as a culture need to have the ugly Betty Rewatch the way maybe I'll watch it for.
The first time.
Start a podcast, babe, honey, yeah maybe no.
No, no, no no, don't don't start a podcasts. Don't spart, don't do that, like protect yourself.
I'll come back on here and talk.
Okay, Yeah, that's what we want. That's what we want part two. But Octavia does, Like I get the reason I'm advocating for like rewatches is because there's just so much juice that you miss, and like with Octavia specifically, she it's like the most ridiculous character, completely deluded person who is like kind of evil, kind of whack like
kind of unwell. And the way her, yeah, the way her, the way Ignacio you know, brings her back into reality and the realization on her face made me physically cry. In twenty twenty three, I was like so cat debated by what she does as an actress. Yeah, and everybody on that show just like knew how to do this lapstick and they knew how to do the heart well.
I think that that also, Like I think that all of the guest stars also kind of really quickly like understood the assignment to like they they got it like they I And that I think is pretty rare as well, Like the idea of like these people coming and doing one episode a little arc of like three, and I feel like for the most part, every guest star like understood the world that they were walking into, like that it had to be a little bit irreverent and ridiculous,
but grounding it in the world, like they just really understood and kind of entered very seamlessly, like Adam Rodriguez coming in and playing and playing Hilda's man and like and that whole Like I got to work with Adam a lot, and like, you know, he's also extremely funny and you know, kind of brought this Bobby character like
to a different place that we weren't really expecting. And so I think that, you know, it was it was also great to have guest stars that understood the assignment, like the actors that came on.
You know who else was that was Kristin Johnson, Oh my.
God, yeah, well, I mean Kristin Johnson and anything is just like slightly Kristin Johnson, which I love, right, you know what I mean. It's kind of like she's got like the Jennifer Coolidge kind of thing going. It's kind of had that.
Like where it's like she's playing a character, but like there's still something just her, you know what I mean.
New York isn't cool anymore.
Yeah, New York's not cool anymore. So bored I could die.
Did you have a favorite guest star that you worked with or cameo appearance that that.
I mean?
Adam Rodriguez was really really fun. I mean because we got like he came in again, like kind of towards the end of our run. And it was also in the it was in the era of like, you know, Justin's kind of coming out thing, and I just thought that the Bobby character, like I just thought was so funny, like the the when he comes in and they're decorating Betty's apartment for the coming out party, and he's like, this doesn't seem right, Like there's some I can't put
my finger on it, but this doesn't seem right. And then Michael like Mark comes In is like take this down, and he's like see. And I thought that that was also a really again like the subtext of something funny that is also making a political statement of like this machismo Latin got coming in and being extremely like accepting and just trying to like become friends with Justin and trying to understand him and trying to like not even understand him.
I think he did understand him.
I think it was more like, hey, I'm an ally like I'm trying, I'm trying to like support you. And I think that that also again is like a political
statement and of itself. I think that Justin being conditioned to like kind of have his guard up, as many queer people do, especially you know around on like Sis had men right of like kind of having to have your guard up at all times because you know, rightfully so, and then having someone that like looks like Adam Rondriguez with a name like Bobby from New York City that is just like I won't tell your mom, but like you got to do something about that, like you have
to like let your family know like where you're at. Like I just thought that was a really beautiful story and I thought that it was like like a political statement, but like done in such a funny way, like Bobby is silly, and.
It was a complicated story. We're here, we're queer, we suck. Yeah, that's powerful.
Listen a very relevant ending question. I don't know if there's tea here. I do feel we were rubbed of a Gaga cameo, and I feel like I was like waiting for her to be in there. She's I just finished season I.
Don't think that.
I don't think the timing was quite right, because it was it would have been right at the beginning.
Of her romance was out in season three, right, I mean, I feel like that would have been the time to get her.
Was before she was on Gossip Girl. Well, well yeah she was in season four.
There's this whole arc where Justin is like going to be on set for like the Gaga photo shoot or whatever, and I was like, is Gaga coming?
I think they wanted to get her, and I think that it was just, you know, she was just probably a scheduling thing or whatever.
I mean, I'm sure that I'm sure that Lady Gaga watched Ugly Betty Girl.
Yeah, Gaga, Yeah, she she'll be in the reboot.
I'm sure she well.
When we finally have her on the show, we will make her answer for that, along with all.
Of her other woor crimes.
Slide into our DMS at Like a Virgin four twenty sixty nine and tell us if you're starting an ugly Betty rewatch. Are you a Betty? Are you a Wilhelmina? Are you an Amanda? And make sure to become a patroon at patreon dot com. Slash like a Virgin and get some exclusive bonus content from our conversation with Martina Della Pato. And next week we will be back with an episode all about Anna Wintour and then met Gala with mikel.
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Make sure to follow us on Instagram Like a Virgin for twenty sixty nine. I'm your co host rose Dam. You can find me anywhere online at rose Dam you and.
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