We Come to this Place for Magic

A lot of people say Julia Roberts, Meryl Street. You know, when I think about that question, I'm pretty sure my answer is Nicole Kidman's Mulan Rouge and only Mulan Rouge was one of the biggest cultural shifts of my childhood. And we'll get into that and it for me, it was practical Magic, yes exactly, I was gonna say. So, we had huge Nicole Kiman related cultural pivot, and I do think we will need to do a separate episode in Practical Magic maybe, but we will be diving into

them today because we are talking about Nicole Kidman. We are going through um and looking at not just her work, but like Nicole Kidman as she shows up in pop culture at large. Because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you. I'm Fran Toronto. Right now. I'm wearing a wig, my undoing wig. Fran is wearing a wig. That's more than do the boy erased wig. I'm gonna I'm gonna do the old country mom. Actually, maybe I'll do the

birth wig. I've never I've never seen birth. I know the basic premise of it, and I don't know that I want to see it, but you know, happy for the people who love it. Oh. Actually, maybe the wig I'm wearing is her wig from the beginning of Stepford Wives when she has the short dark hair done. Oh. I like it's a very good look. I like her Stepford hair. I think the classic kind of like she's god any Stepford Wives. This is a great movie. We'll talk about it. I'm in Los Angeles, Fran is in

New York. Yes, I'm in New York. I'm having what feels like my seventh birthday party and the last two weeks span um. I just came to these because to celebrate with some friends. That is why my audio sounds a little shitty today. I forgot the little wire part that connects to my microphone. Very sorry to home. I love you, I love your birthday. I love um celebrating your birthday with you. I personally don't understand the impulse to celebrate one's birthday that much. I don't even want

to do it once. I, as a tourist, throw my own birthday party every year, if not multiple parties. Parties. Yes, but I woke up this morning and I have a New York bagel and so jealous. You should be jealous because I mean not to trash talk l A, but like the bagels, they're are just Los Angeles bagels are bullshit. They're are not on par and let me tell you I don't exist. I'm sorry to take here controversial opinion.

But like this like kind of Instagram famous like l a bagel place, Courage Bagels, the one that did you see the New York Times article about this place? You know, I don't read newspapers. A year or two ago, like the New York Times wrote a piece that was like the best bagels are in Los Angeles, and now every time it's not true. But now every time you walk past Courage Bagels, there's like a two block long line, like out the door, it's cuckoo. I went to this

place Rose there's no eggs on the menu. No eggs for a bagel. Place that makes no sense. And then they didn't how they were out of coffee and they waited so long. Yes, they were out of coffee. When I was like, what is that's a huge mega flop And I ordered a salt bagel, who was actually very excited about because it had been a minute since I ordered a salt bagel and there was no salt on it. Not enough. Yeah, exactly this low sodium salt bagel. Um. Anyways, sorry to end rant On on bagels. No, I I

am in the trenches right here with you. I hate that Los Angeles doesn't have good bagels. That um my hinge profile. You know, one of the questions says, I'm buying if um we're getting around of And my answer is bagels. I am a Jewish girl from Bok or a Tone. There is nothing I love more than a good bagel, and I have yet to find one in l A. And every time I say that to someone, they're like, wait, but have you tried this place? Have

you tried this place? I actually hooked up with someone a couple of months ago who works at a bagel place and they were like, oh, but the bagels that we have a really good and I was like, no, they're not. And they were like, have you ever been there? And I said no, but I know the the bagels aren't good. And they were like, oh, I'm going to bring you some and I said, please, don't, please do not. You can throw that lease, do not. I used to work at a bagel store. I've stopped trying. Yeah, I

used to work at a bagel store. And we threw out garbage bags filled with bagels. Oh my god, they're so good. Bagels are so good. You know what else is really good? Rose? What? Um heart stopper? This show on Netflix that you high key introduced me to because you gave me the first edition. It was like the first installation of the graphic novel series that it's based on. While I had COVID and now it's a show. I knew you needed something, um, you know, uh tender and

and nice. Let me tell you I opened. I opened up that book thinking like, you know, I was gonna fall asleep to it after like page fifteen, and I was up until one finishing that book, it was so good. And the show, which really like lift scenes from the book, like panel by panel, which I really love, like it's a very true adaptation, was just as well. It was helmed by Alice Osman, who wrote and drew the comics.

No way that never happen. Yeah, Alice was the showrunner. Wow, that reminds me of like the Perks of being a Wallfler adaptation also by the author, and how it was just like such a true perfect like it never happens that way, where like the adaptation is as good or embellishes what we enjoyed about the book. But like, I mean, there are a lot of things I loved about Heart Stopper. I'd be curious to know, like what you loved about it.

But like, first off, like every character that isn't one of the two main characters is a lesbian, and this show, like every single like even the characters that aren't lesbians are lesbians, like the teachers. So it's so great that

they talk specifically about being lesbians. I think like for some reason in TV, that has become like a naughty word or like I don't know, there's this feeling from jen Z that they don't want to define themselves or shouldn't have to, or like you know, Harry Style saying

like he'll never reveal his sexuality whatever. And it's just so nice to have like these girls saying they're lesbians because that is really important for the young lesbians watching the show exactly, and like lesbian humor really snuck through over and over again, and also bisexual humor because there's a by character in this show and like, I'm sure this was the moment that was it for you, but like kind of spoiler alert, the moment that one of

the main characters figures out that he's bisexual is when he's watching Pirates of the Caribbean and he realizes that he's attracted to both Kara Knightley and Arlando Bloom, which is that's how it happened. That's how it happens. That is exactly how it happened. Everyone knows that there are two bisexual cultural objects in this world, and it's Pirates of the Caribbean and Aladdin. And if you're attracted to both of the romantic leads in those movies, that is

like your bisexual awakening. Um is true. Um. I also just loved um L the character played by um Yasmin Finney who's trans. I thought it was so great to see a trans character who's like any um, any conflict she had in her life was not about being trans. Um.

And even the way she was introduced where they said like, oh, yeah, she used to go to school with us, like they never they never had to like have a moment where they're like, yes, her name used to be this and she used to identify this way, and like it was just like really, it was a really nice um. Just look at what queer representation in popular culture can be if it's done the right way by queer people. Yeah.

And like the other thing about like queer storytelling us, like a lot of the stories that were used to our stories were in the trans person or the queer person like walks into the room and everything has to

come to a screeching halt to like acknowledge that's what happens. Yeah, everyone's like wait, we just have to stop and say that this person is trans. But like with hard stop where it's like the queerness even though they are like coming out um components of the plot like that, it's all very effortless and the plot does not really waste time, um under the umbrella of oppression, and it gets it right into the drama and the love and the romance.

It's so good, it's very sweet. UM highly recommend. We also started on our Netflix role. I'm selling Sunset this week, this let this past week. UM, I just finished it last night. I finished it two. What did you think? What is Christine really going to leave the O group? Like what I'm going on? This season has really picked up, like I think the fit like it really like I don't know, has been like a roller coaster for me. And like I was not a passive watcher this season.

It was very active. Mica is so hot, so hot, it's insane. I just have to pour one out for Chelsea. She and her indecipherable accent. Indecipherable. She went to the Dorry Kemsley School of Dialect Coaching, Mama, and I have to tell you, Chelsea is such an exceptional villain. Like the way she goes into a conversation and poses all these other girls down, Like to me, it's just like so it's like so incisively done. And I think something that she does very well is be a reality TV character.

You know what I mean, A lot of the other girls are like amazing, but you're like, you know, we're real estate agents, like we're trying to do our job. At Chelsea's there to like be on TV and she's like so good at it. Also, I mean Roman like parts of oh is it Romane? Yeah, like the lettuce I think parts of earlier seasons like I didn't quite like get it. I was like, okay, like I don't know. I always call him like Mary's like male order bride kind of moment, but like for me, like Romaine. I

think something about this season. I was like, maybe it's because he's very like Adam Driver sized. I'm like, he's really doing it for me and he's very charming and like I love his conflicts with Mary are much more um speaking out speaking of Adam Driver, um No, I did finish Girls on Saturday. I watched all six seasons of Girls in two weeks. That's kind of gross. It is it is sick for your health. I'm also concerned

for my health. I mean, I'll say I've been dealing with some personal issues which have led me to spend hours at a time watching Girls on Atrio, Max and the Girls have been there for me in the trenches. The last season is so good. Um, we we talked about this a lot last week. If you haven't listen

to Our Girls episode, please do. But yeah, I think like there definitely are some bad seasons around the middle that I didn't really remember much of, but the last two seasons are so great, And um, I don't know, I might be ready for a lenaisance Rose don't even invoke that. I mean, we already had our lena'sans, Like, I don't even I don't think that there's a zance to be happening. Asonce is a return. Um we are having you know, Jemima. Okay, Jessa is very much in

the culture. She's going to be in Conversations with Friends, which is the next Sally Rooney adaptation, which I am excited about because I like Conversations with Friends even more than I liked Normal People the book. But the trailer made it look very melodramatic in a way that Sally Rooney's writing just isn't. Have you read any Sally Rooney. No, that's another kind of like tragically heterosexual, Like Conversations with Friends is queer. Yeah, you were telling and I mean

also her most recent book, My Beautiful World. Where Are You? There's a bisexual character in it. Yeah, but trailers are marketing. We'll see what the show is actually like. I obviously will be watching it both for you know, the salaryny of it all, and because I want to see if, um, Taylor Swiss boyfriend is going to show cock. Oh my gosh, he's in it, or at least but yeah, he's the

male lead. Yeah. I mean, this is one of those things that you're just gonna have to let me know because I will never read the books and I probably won't watch the things, you know what I mean? But I respect and I think you're missing out. I think it would be a great beach read this summer for you. I'm sure I'll have a gander the next time I get the flu or something, but not not today. Um. But speaking of Hulu, Uh, there's a new lesbian rom com on Hulu called Crush. Have you heard about this?

I have? Um, I mean we we know several people who were involved in it. Yes, yeah, yeah, there's quite There was quite an amazing cast and team of writers on this film, and it is the most adorable, like teeny bopper kind of love triangle story I have seen in quite some time, and also just like tragically like one of a kind in its era, Like they're really like a lesbian romcom that takes place in high school

should not be rare. And I think to see like run Blenchard and the girl from Mohanna and like all these other folks kind of come together to in it. Yes, Molanna's in it and she's good. Oh she's she's queer. I r L right, I believe so. Yes, and all three of the leads are extremely hot, um, which is maybe my one complaint. I was like, it's I was like all three of these like they're all so hot. Like I was like, what is even We need ugly representations,

so we need ugly representation. Um. But the jokes are whip smart. The ending maybe a little too tidy, But like the thing about like representation at larrangees like we need to just be making things and like not like tearing them apart. We say, like, this is a movie and it was cute and I enjoyed myself and I also had a cute date like on that at the movie screening, and so you know that's like what these

movies are for to like take dates to. Right. Yes, one film though that I would not have taken a date to is The Northman. Well, actually maybe I would, because it's that's kind of my date vibe. We today, obviously are are larger. Conversation is about Nicole Kidman and friend and I had planned to see The Northman together. Um,

due to scheduling, that was not possible. And I think it's probably for the best because fran you would have hated it, really, you would have hated it so much, Oh my god, I mean you didn't like The Green Night you you would have hated hated the Door. You know, it's it's so violent and gory and it's so um mask even though there's a lot of like there's a there's a lot of great performances by women in it, and like, as it turns out, the women kind of

drive the story. But it's just not it's not your tea, you know. I feel like there's still a chance I'll go see it on report back, But like, if you don't want to read conversations with friends, I don't see you watching The Northman. Look I like some like you know, broy like sci fi, like epic stories. You know, I thought that it was BROI it's that it was. You said it was kind of mask so I guess yeah.

So you know, it's directed by the same director who did The Witch or The Vich and the Lighthouse, and in the same way that The Witch was styled as a New England folk tale, and like The Witch truly is like what would happen if all of the like folk tales about witches from the time of Americans, like

colonizing and settling in um North America were true? You know, like this very traditional tale of like a witch living in the woods who worshiped Satan blah blah blah, and like doing kind of like a literal interpretation of that in a very like engaging, artful way. Um. I think this similarly is that for this like Norse Viking tale of revenge? And I just I don't know if that's something you would enjoy. I could definitely see us walking out of the theater and you're going, um, I hated that,

you know, I liked The Witch. I think to me, it's all down to how slow the movie is. Because the movie is really slow and a lot of exposition. I do tend to, like, you know, to now, but like if there's some battles and there's some incest and there's some buelerk, like I feel like there is there is incest, there is incest and b york be or there should have been more buyork. Honestly, she is only in it very briefly, and I could have used about, you know, uh more more bork, as is the case

with anything you know. Anna Taylor Joy was fab, she always is. Her hair was so blonde. Um, Nicole Kidman was great. She like she's a main character. Is she kind of a side character? She is in terms of the screen time she gets. She is more of a secondary character, but she is looming presence throughout the film. It has some incredible scenes. I'm so excited. I mean, I'm going to watch it. I think I might prove you wrong. Okay, Um, Nicole Kidman icon legend star in

every sense of the word. Oscar Winner, Aussie and are our. I mean not to start with this, but if that is perhaps Nicole's one fatal flaw, it is the occasional slipping into any when she does her therapy scenes and big little etcetera. Her black sent work is spotty best. But the thing is it doesn't matter because she's so magnetic. It's kind of like, I feel like cool transcends genre, space and time dialects. Tony Collette also, you know, sometimes

doesn't always nail the accent, but it doesn't matter. Like there are a lot of like women who it's like, it doesn't matter slipping because you're so good. Um, So okay, let's start from the beginning. Is practical magic. The beginning for your practical magic is the beginning for me in so many ways. I would say, of like, if we're talking about like pop cultural top tens, you know, we talked in our Wizard of Oz episode about how returned to Oz is one of the most formative things in

my life. Practical magic is like one of those ten things as well. It is definitely the thing I mean, I'm sure Wizard of Oz and the related content I think are the first things in my life that made

me obsessed with witches. And I think practical magic was like the gateway into a kind of like um modern contemporary like sexy nineties, which and I think practical magic is like much more of the like aesthetic that I was drawn to, you know, the like the shelf of the like the like coastal Grandma vibes, the like cottage core vibes of like the house. And the extensions. Oh my god, there have never been more extensions in a

film than there are in Practical Magic. Actually, it's really you would think with all of the wigs and all of the hair that Nicole has worn, but it really is. I was alarmed by the amount of hair and that was it must have been so heavy and practice. This is an episode, truly, everyone, This is episode about wigs, truly, and you and I are probably gonna do a separate episode on Practical Magic, but it's worth mentioning that you did induct me into that movie. That was a true,

true to the conceit of the show. I had never seen it before and you were like, you need to see Practical Magic. Yeah, we on Halloween twenty twenty watched Practical Magic in your old apartment in West Hollywood. And so your Practical Magic was my Mulin rouge, another Nicole kidman you know, vehicle, and um for me, it was based in a very specific moment in my life where um, I was kind of coming out of my like Bible closet and starting to make friends. That weren't Christians and

weren't from youth group. And one of my friends had a next door neighbor that was like a a profuse atheist at the age of seventh grade, and that was like so terrifying to me, as like a little Christian baby. And yet I was so drawn to like this the badness, you know, so drawn to like someone who I feel like everyone has kind of like a bad girl figure in their childhood that like, you know, broke them open in a little way. And for me, this girl, Melt was it. And Melt a slut name. It is a

slut name, and she was a by atheist slut. Oh my god, I love her. Yes, and I'm also atheist. Yes you are. Yes, how do y'all find me? I don't know? Um and you have some kind of pheromones. Yeah, and so she so we would like play around the cold de sect. We would also like play truth or air like, yeah, culd a sector slutty. I'm pretty sure that, like Mel was one of my first is like a whole we would do like you would like sexually explore,

like us seventh graders together. So she was kind of corrupting us in truth or dairy ways, like it was like a whole mess. But like mel was not only the person to show me rent, which was another thing that we've talked about on the show about as a thing that broke me open. We'll we won't, we will um and but that was like a secular awakening. But

Mulan Rouge was it. And I think for me it combined things that I'm attracted to now in terms of fabulouism, fantasy, the kind of over the topness of bas Lermans, like kind of aesthetic lent it to the extremely gay appeal of that movie. And they I think that on top of queerness in the movie, on top of um, a lot of sex in the movie, on top of like you know, drugs, drinking, like all these different stuff and

like hooker and the romance. Yeah, and it's like all of that is it is like a mainstream movie musical about sex workers. Yes, And I think that that was like just imagine any consumption, seventh g D consumption, yes, and seventh grade friend. Like the shows I watched with my family are like Little House on the Prairie and then Melbanne Yes, and then amel being like, well, have you seen Mulan Rouge. So I will remember watching this movie and being like feeling kind of scared. Literally, like

that's my experience of watching the film. But in terms of Nicole in this like she had taken two voice lessons before this movie and a famously, I mean the moment that she gets lowered from the ceiling, my something shifted. My world was forever altered. Oh, we also have to say Nicole Kidman is redhead culture culture. Um, I would say that of the times that I have dyed my

hair red have been directly inspired by Nicole Kidman. Like it's either it's October and I'm watching Practical Magic and I am calling my stylist or running to Target to get a box die, or like I'm watching Mulan Rouge or you know, thing back in the days when Nicole was a redhead, because you know, we are now living

in Nicole's blonde era. And I think Mulan Rouge specifically was a movie that set the tone for what the rest of Nicole's career would be because obviously that wasn't her breakout role by any means, but it was a role that put her on the map. And I think she was nominated. I think it was when she became a movie star. Because the Nicole was nominated for Best Actress of the Oscars in two thousand two. She did not win, but I would say that that was the

film that catapulted her to a list superstardom. She had already been swirling in that space. But I think up until then it was largely because of her proximity to Tom Cruise. And I do think that this transition into her being an a List actress kind of was the end of their marriage. Um oh, I didn't know that. I think I think he did kind of resent her stardom, like starting to be level with or even eclipse his um and we all know that Tom Cruise is like

a deeply insecure scientologist. Yes, and we oh, and Nicole's okay. So she was nominated for mulan Rugi in two thousand one, lost to Halle Berry who won for Monster's Ball, but she won the next year for The Hours. Wow, Okay, that'sund surprising to me. And that was the beginning of her which I and I actually think that it should have been swapped because she should have won for mulan Rugi in two thousand one and then Renee's Alwigger should

have won for Chicago the next year. All the thing is, well, the thing is, I mean we needed that. How I think the halle Berry win is so Academy Academy iconography. Well, I mean she was the first black woman to win Best Actress in addition to being that is horrible. I actually have never seen it. But but also, like the thing about oscars is is it's about the speeches. It's not about the awards. It's about the speeches. And Hallie's speech is the reason that the orchestra plays you off.

Now did you know that? Because how Hallie's speech was so so long that I think that it went like way over time and they have to you know, they're they're charged on all these fees or whatever, and that the Academy I think the next year created a rule around speech times. And now the orchestra plays you off because of Hallie, which I think is iconic. Um Okay, So Mulin Rouge was huge. The hours for me, I think really hit my like collegiate like nerd points, you

know all of them. It's very it's it's a very quintessential. Like I would say, especially gay men are obsessed with the Hours, and not just gay men literary like kind of Brooklyn esque gay fags, especially ones who were into theater. Yeah, and ones that read like a little life ye god um yeah, But I mean, I what do you remember about the Hours, Like when you first watched Nicole's No

obviously Nicole's Meryl carrying the flowers Nicole iconic style. I bought the flowers herself, Yeah, Nicole walking into the river with stones in her pocket. Yeah, I don't. I don't remember much about the Hours. I think it's more of like a mood piece for me. I remember love Virginia Wolf, though I was going to say I was really at the at the time, or maybe honestly because of the Hours.

I remember becoming really obsessed with Virginia Wolf when I was in the UK for abroad, and I remember reading Virginia wolves like diaries, which I do not recommend their dark the dark Dark. I do recommend her poetry though, yes,

you collected poems of Virginia Wolf's great stunning. But I remember like walking around London with like Virginia Wolf slash Nicole Kidman's voice in my head, like thinking, because you don't picture Virginia picture Nicole, and I think, honestly that is the mark of a of a very stunning biopic, kind of like lavin anal, where it's like I no longer think about the original, the actual person, I think about how iconic this portrayal was, and you know what,

I actually think, it's like, I'm glad that the that the like cultural portrayal we have a Virginia Wolf is not a biopic that's just about Virginia Wolf, because that would be like too much of a bummer, And it's good that it's in this story that is about a couple of different women, so you're not like overwhelmed by the depression that was Virginia Wolf's life. Have you ever

read Orlando? Um? No, I haven't, but it's very trans It's very trans and I've I've read it, but I've never seen the movie starting Untilda Swinton and like, maybe we should watch that. I've heard it's not bad. I know, I've heard it's it's supposed to be incredible. I'm not really as much of a till to stand as as

other people. I'm a I'm a Tiltonista all denista, but you know what is it actually when I I like you know when we looked over when you when I say, like, you know, uh, Mulan Rouge was the beginning of a type of woman that Nicole would play. It really is depressed women like depressed, but sexy, depressed, sexy, introspective because even negretive, even in practical magic, that's her type. Yes, she is the you know, she is a victim of domestic abuse um and sexual violence who you know murders

her boyfriend. Um. But she's still like the sex pot. Yeah, she's a sex pot. And I think that I think that Nicole kicks the redhead thing. Yes it is. It is absolutely the red head archetype. It's also her voice is a replicable like she she really I think she hang onto her husband's girls and I think she has I think she when she reads a script because she really is a sinophile like and when she reads a script. No, I've seen the mc nicole Nicole get mentioned like teacher

film studies. I would love that. But when when you when she reads a script, you can tell that she's attracted to a certain kind of woman that's holding onto something feels good, feels good in a place like this. The script that she wrote, she wrote the script, she directed, she produced. She was the big boy, she was the grip um. Anyways, Uh, Stepford Wives, Oh my god that I love Stepford Wives. It's like not a great movie,

but I think it performed. I think at the time it was critically a lambastad because it's very different from the source material. It was directed by Frank Oz who he was like the muppets. He did all the voices of a lot of them. He did the voice of Yoda. I believe um end the end and like the original short story that The Stafford Wives that is based off of is very much like a thriller horror. It has a very bleak ending, and the Stafford Wives remake is not to that at all. And it's a comedy. It's

an amazing remake. It's amazing. It's so fun, and I think it is. I don't know that I would call it like a cult classic because I don't think it's been like reclaimed or like is beloved in a different way than how it was initially received. But I really liked it when it came out. I think it's super fun. Nicole Kidman's performance in it as like the executive who has like a mental breakdown the two different cells. The two different cells is I think really good and like

Bet Midler is so great close is so good. In it is Tony Christopher Walkin. There's another woman in the movie. I can it's Bett Midler, the guy fay Faye. Oh yeah. Faith Hill is one of the steps. Okay, that's crazy, um, but yeah, that's the other thing. Is like Faith Hill who is part of Nicole Kidman Cannon because her song this Kiss is prominently featured in Practical Magic. It is the soundtracks lab the soundtrack and Prattrack Magic is one

of the best soundtracks ever created. But her song um this kiss or maybe it's just kiss um is in the scene where Sally like is spell abound to meeting her husband who dies. Yeah, and you know it's so crazy now because you and I like jotted down like some some of Nicole Kiman's things that we wanted to talk about and like down the line between Practical Magic the hours of Stepford Wives, like the Big Guils boy erased. It's like all these like dark these like dark dark

dark kind of like women. And I think that Stepford Wives is the kind of cartoonishness that comes out of that is something that Nicole Kidman still loves to do. And I think the um when I think about when she's kind of having fun in something like maybe, I don't know nine. Did you watch nine? Never seen nine? Really? Yeah, you've never seen Fergie? Do? Do you know? Do you know? Like what? Okay, so yeah, I know that, Yes I do.

She's like an old Italian whore. She's an old Italian hooker that I guess has sex with like a like a nine year old with a young Fellini, a young Felini. Yeah, I mean I actually don't. I didn't really see the movies about Felini. Yeah. Wow, that actually that isn't that is all a listers that movie, Kate Hudson, Kate Hudson,

Nicole Kinman, Penelope Cruise. Maybe I should watch it. It's it's a notoriously terrible film, Okay, but we should watch because it's because it's part of the like post post Mulan Rouge and Chicago like it was trying to be of movie musicals that happened for a couple of years and that like we're still kind of trying to make happen and it's still really not working and Nicole Kidman has been in a few of let Me Tell You It was post Happy for You, another Nicole vehicle, and

another movie where she sings never seen Happy Feet. She sings good. She has a great voice. I loved her in the prom I loved give It some sas. I loved her in the undoing opening credits. My God, who made her do that? She I don't think anyone made her do that. I think she said, you know, you know what we would be great? She said, R and R. We don't have We don't have a theme song yet. You know what? You know? Its song I love? Is that one song you ever heard? That cop and this

song is your favorite song? Insane Karen saying that she sings that theme song and you the thing. The reason it's insane is because there's a suspended tension in that show that is I think really well done, even though the show is not, has a terrible ending that you think is going to pay off and have something to

do with the credits. You're you when you watch the opening credits, you're like, this is so so Arendom that you're like, this has to have some sort of meaning at the end of the show, and at no point does it ever know nothing, there's there's absolutely there's absolutely zero reason for the thing the for Nicle getting into saying dream a little dream of me. It makes no sense whatsoever away from them because I know I'm being hysterical,

but there's no reason for it to happen. And like, just like much of what's in that show, there's like the weird like lesbian kiss in the first episode. Yeah, Phoebe is losing it in the booth because that lesbian kiss was like I wouldn't want to say gay baby because everyone calls everything gay baby, but I feel like the what did I have to do with anything? Um? Anyway, but it was it was I think it was more a red herring. I think it was very intentionally a

red herring and not gay baiting. Just red Yeah, yeah, exactly of Swedish fish. But um, it's it. But I think actually Nicole Kidman singing the credits is emblematic of this thing that she does, which is like a choice, a choice. She makes a lot of choices. It's like I'm gonna be in this AMC commercial, I'm going to be in Happy Feed, I'm going to do this like kind of whack Adoodle glad real character in Nine Perfect Strangers.

I'm going to be Alexander scars Guard's mom and the Northman after I played as a wife in Big Little Eyes. I mean, okay, which is kind of hot. It is hot, it is hot. And let me tell you her mom, mommy, mommy, I haven't seen Aquaman. You said she has a good fight for she does for the coin. I mean the same thing that's happy feed. It's like you did that

for the coin. I also wonder if some of it is about her legacy and like, you know, she's making movies in every quadrant, you know, in the way that we think about film, like for she's making movies for every kind of audience. She wants to be a star forever, not even wants to be She is the quintessential star and the quintessential actress, like both. I think, like in the pantheon of people like really it's the big Little

Lies girlies like Nicole Kidman is Meryl level. Yeah, she has Merrill level, and I think you know, um, she and her team take pride in her range. You know, even if she is playing a lot of the same women, it's still the the rain and that is not to say she doesn't get it wrong. Sometimes she's been in some big mega flop Doudocacas, What Bewitched, the Bewitched Dream, But she started with Will Ferrell, which I did used to own on DVD and I would watch a lot

and christ and China was in it too. What we're talking about right now is the kid Massans, you know, isn't an, but like she did kind of go away for a while, or at least she had a period where she was not making the like caliber projects that she is now, certainly not at the volume and like rapidity that she is now. I would say, like the Mids, she she was kind of gone for a while. And I think and Big Little Lies was definitely the return,

That's what I was going to say. I mean, I don't know, I feel like it might be a little um, I think it might be a little flattening to call it a return per se, but it definitely did change her cultural reception. Well, it was also a different medium.

It was the first time she had done TV, and I do think I think you might have said before, maybe even before we started recording, Big Little Lies is the thing that has ushered in this era of prestige prestige TV of movie stars, Oscar winners doing these prestige projects like for the first time, for the first time

Big Little Eyes, was it? Yeah? Was it? And I think that I it's interesting to now watch her for ray into more miniseries like the undoing Nine Perfect Strangers, this upcoming show roar that we're gonna watch like it. I think that that is like, um, you know, it's it's a lot of it's more risks, it's more mrs. Like you didn't watch Nine Perfect Strangers. But like the top line, like she plays a wellness retreat kind of cult leader that non consensually drugs all of the people

that have like come to this like retreat or whatever. Yeah, and like you know, unfortunate, um tonally, the the show doesn't really know where it's at all. Nine of these strangers are kind of in different shows. Like I think that Melissa McCarthy, who I think kind of gives the best performance in the show, maybe better than Nicole's in my opinion, um is in a different show than Nicole is in a different show than that one guy from Will and Grace is who I think is also very good,

but in a different show. They're all totally in different shows, and I think that kind of convolutes what they're trying to do. And I think it's actually remarkable that they're getting a second season. But it must be a Nicole thing. Anyways, Nicole wears this gladril ass wig that does not get wet properly, and yet she is constantly wet in this TV show in pools, in bodies of water, come emerging out of it with this wet, escaladrial wig that looks bad whin wet, but it's like, you are get a

better wig. The story of Nicole Kidman is the story of Way, and it's a It's a very strange story because there was a press conference for the film Destroyer in which Nicole Kiman was a very strange wig and a journalist, and I think, I don't like the way this is framed. I'm reading it on the Daily Mail. But um, the journalist, I think, wanted to ask her, like a fun question to rank her favorite wigs, and Nicole Kiman refused to answer it and says she was

shutting it down. If you're in a press conference and you're a journalist, especially a young journalist, don't do a fucking fun question. I'm sorry, don't know. But also if your celebrity and you've it's like I think she I don't and and listen, I don't think this is a question that would be asked to a mail no celebrity, And I'm sure that's part of what's like sensitive about it for her, And like, of course this has sparked all these crazy theories about Nicole Kiman being bald or whatever,

and I don't think that's true. I think that just like a lot of actresses, a lot of pop stars, like it's just so much easier to wear a wig for a project than to like put your hair through the trauma of being styled and died in all of these things. But I think like she just didn't want to talk about it, and like I guess she shouldn't have to, but also like she shouldn't have treated it like he was coming for her, like it's just someone trying to get like a fun click baity article out

of that kind of interview. But here's the thing, that's what that's what I said, is like when when I say don't ask the fun question in a press conference, I mean a press conference, Like it's like a public platform in front of an audience, to me, is not the place to do that. A junket or a one on one interview is when you do those like kind of fun, big maybe big swing questions and I don't always work out. Well, That's what I was gonna say is I actually didn't know that prerecord. I didn't know

that story about the wig the wig question. And I said to you, I said, Rose in a in an alternate life, you were kicked out. I absolutely was the one who asked that question, because you and I have before brainstormed an article out about Nicole Kidman's wigs, like we've we've already we've talked about doing something. There's definitely like some kind of buzz feed list ranking Nicole kid there's probably an out dot com article with your name on it. Probably don't look it up, virgins, please do

that search for it. But yeah, but what is your favorite Nicole Kidman wig? Though? I mean the Mulan Rouge hair is cannon, but I think that's her hair. But I I think that's her. That's still the era where it was her hair, plus lots of extensions. Really yeah, really, I think so we have to look that up that should be fact checked. I think is boy erased. I think I love her Southern like comfort mom. I can't believe you've watched boy or Race, But also I can

because I'm sure some article I've so gared. Conley is like a friend of mine, and so I really like the Everything about that film was very exciting to watch his life put on screen. Is like, was absolutely surreal experience. You're like, oh my god, Nicole Kidman is playing your mom. But something that I feel like is very telling about um, the staying power of Nicole is behind the scenes. I've never heard a bad story about her. Everyone loves working

everyone loves working with her. He has told me so many stories about how she got to know his mom in a really deep way and how that just doesn't always happen. You know Allah Gaga in um you know House of Gucci, which, like Gaga is also an ad actress where I will see everything she will ever be in time, even though she doesn't have you know, the

catalog yet. Um. But yeah, I think that there's something about how you know Nicole Kim and can find empathy in a lot of different people that we might otherwise render a monster. You know, a woman who is beholden to a very homophobic Baptist husband has a lot of complicity that is really ugly and it's not a character you really want to empathize with. And yet Nicole Kidman

saw that and knew where the humanity was. And so for Nicole Kiman to play you know, a murderer in The Beguiled, or to play you know, um you know other times or like The Guild is so good. I didn't see it when it first came out, and I only watched it like somewhat recently. I think maybe sometime last year. It's so fun and it has it is stacked with the girls, it's Nicole Kiki, um l Fanning. It's just like it's basically virgin suicides like on a planet because it's Sofia Coppola. Oh it is so it's

literally that. So anyways, um uh nine Pervic Strangers, I think is like that kind of matriarch like get the hatch, Like I mean, what it doesn't you have like a Southern genteel accent and that, But what does she say something about go get the hatchet? It's the trailer became to cut Colin Farrell's leg off. Oh, is that what happens?

But she I think this is spoiler alert. I think what happens is his leg doesn't actually need to be cut off, but because he hit on two of her daughters, she was like, fuck this, because he's like he like comes to their houses during the Civil War and he like strikes up a romance with Kirsten Dunce. But then

Fox Alfanic yes, and he needs help. He's like basically seeking refuge at this plantation home and so they take him, you know, into their under their care, and he takes advantage of that by becoming kind of a predator, and so Nicole Kinman chops his leg off, which is which

is iconic. I do think we should like dive into Big Little Lies because I think Big Little Lies is the thing that has most re contextualized Nicole for the current moment and probably where probably like gen Z knows her from the most um and I do think it is it's hard to say like this is Nicole Kidman's best work or among her best work, but it really is.

It is, and it also like set the press, I mean, as we were saying, like the golden age of of of prestige TV, and I think it's like signaled to all these A list actors that they could go do a mini series, win a bunch of awards, and then like I don't know, maybe like get up there, you know whatever they're like there you know rate is or like the spawn con that they get to do or whatever. I'm trying to think of, like what there is to

add to a conversation of Big Little Lies. You know it hasn't already been talked about because yeah, but for me, like the thing is, like I this is the reason I love Nancy Myers movies, but my favorite favorite thing that I will always watch is a show or movie

about wealthy white women in a moment of emotional crisis. Well, it was very weird to see Nicole play a victim because I think a lot of her films she has really stood in a place of strength um and has been the heroine UM And like you know, she is in a way in Big Little Eyes, and I think in season two you get to see her take a lot more agency for herself, and like, you know, Season two I think is very polarizing because a lot of us kind of wished that it didn't happen because of

how perfect Season one was, but then like, who's going

to say no to more? And I think it's funny because as we've established that her kind of typecasting is um, dark, depressed, sexpot, big little lies, is the um kind of like you know and obstillation of that, and I think that, um one of the most interesting parts of the show to me was the murkiness in how Nicole Kidman was into elements of their relationship that were abusive and that obviously it became not you know, sexual after a certain point, but in the beginning, you see the way that Nicole

provokes him because she is turned on by the fame, and that's why it's so messy and and like I think, you know, like I don't want to speak for you know, victims of domestic abuse, but I'm sure that like for a lot of people who you know are like a bit more massochistic, and like, I'm sure there are people where those lines on their own relationships are very blurry, and I don't think that that is something we had seen portrayed by that way, And like, I don't think

there's something about Nicole Kidman being the one to do it, like seeing that kind of like violence being enacted upon her and also her engaging in that violence herself, because there are times early in that season where she's the one who provokes him or at least like it's very complicit in like the beginning of their violent interaction, and

then he escalates it to another level. Yeah, And like the thing about this cast as well as like no one else could play I mean Shale Woodley, like a lot of people can play, but three, it's like no one. Like the only other person that I think can do a version of what Nicole does in these roles is maybe like a Glenn Close. But Glenn is not a sexpot anymore, and she doesn't have an oscar. Yeah, she will, she will. She I really think she will. I really

think she will. She she deserves and if not, she'll get, you know, a lifetime achievement oscar. You know, I think that would be Yeah, but a lot of greats have got have never gotten award and got like a life. Yeah. But like the the story, worry around Glenn not getting it is so much different than for everybody or losing to share and then Gaga. I wish she didn't lose

to Gaga. She but she probably was outright. Um, Okay, I haven't seen Being the Ricardos because Nicole being in Being the Ricardos and being Lucy was such a meme before the movie came out, and the whole conversation around it was how miscast she was, how she was too old to play her, like all this stuff. You know. There was that first photo of her in the wig

that everyone laughed at. It was hilarious. And then the movie came out and the only things I heard about it were how good she was she But I will never watch it. Um, I don't. I don't think it's an amazing movie. I think that, Um. I mean, I think Aaron Stark is like an an infantesimal like man baby, like he just doesn't I don't know, I just like don't appreciate like a lot of his writing. And I think that this movie specifically is very indulgent in what

it invents, Like it feels like fan and fiction. Um, but it's still a very interesting um portrayal of basically, Lucy old Ball is this shrewd, egomaniacal businesswoman who has an O C D level to attention that kind of overworks everyone else, and that and she's kind of a genius, Like she's a comedic salant, and I think Nicole does that very well. And I also think that role specifically is actually very different from a lot of other roles she played, because not often is Nicole mean in movies.

She's usually dark and depressed, but not as much mean, And in in this she is kind of cruel. You know what movie she was mean and that we did gloss over, which I mean, I'm not surprised about The Golden Compass. Did you ever see that? Know? But I heard the book slap because they're about like the destruction of God. Yeah, there was. There was a very badly received kind of flop adaptation of this Philip Pullman book series.

The Golden Compass was that first HBO. No no, no, So there has been in recent years a new adaptation of it that's a TV series, which also flopped. No, I think it's I think it's pretty I watched a couple episodes of the first season and I thought it

was pretty good, but I lost interest. But the movie that came out in the early adds, it was definitely while I was in high school, because I remember going to see it like after school one day or maybe I skipped class and saw it, um and she's the villain in it, and she is like the best part of the movie. She's so mean and like glamorous, which I think is like a very good sweet spot. It is a good sweet spot for her. Um with with being the Ricardo's, I think the meanness like works like

it's it's it's you can't stop watching it. But that's kind of a Nicole thing. Like anytime she's on screen, you're so entrance. She has so much fucking charisma, uniqueness, nerve and talent. Period. When is she going to guest judge on drag Race? We do Night of at that was in Nicole, that would be me. I mean they already did this move on Rouge spoof on this season, which was such they should have gotten like a call

in message from her, Yeah, they should have. If I could give my quick take on being the Ricardo's, I think you would hate it. But at the end of the day, like they're like Javier bread M and Nicole Kimmen are just like kind of hot. They just have hot energy, and I think that that that it just

like lends itself. Sometimes I think about the fact that Javier Bardem is married to Penelope Crews, and I just like spontaneously Climax does Nicole like exclusively, like just like work with hot prestige actors, Like why wouldn't she She in Destroyer, which is like not a good movie and she looks so disgusting in it. Her love interest is Sebastian stand Oh my god. Yeah. You know this brings us to the current day of Nicole, which is you know, I think it's like the thing that she's currently the

most famous and beloved for. I don't know if we're kind of saying, but it is certainly a transcendent cultural object.

It's just amazing them how saturated she is in pop culture that she can at the same time be doing an Oscar campaign, um, doing a like a twenty four movie that in which she co stars with Bjork and also be introducing literally every movie at every AMC theater, um in an ad that like gay people chant along to y and that that is the that is the like totality of Nicole Kidman and how prevalent she is on pop culture and like she is a true icon. Yeah, and you know I earlier said that, you know, she

is both a star and an actress. But I actually do think she's just an actress because she's no, she's a star. But I'm saying that star quality requires a lot of off camera shenanigans. And she is she quiet, no, no, no, no no, she's a very she's very active on Instagram what yes, she posts like, oh my god, I don't follow her. She posts daily what she does like, she does like every She's the kind of person who would do like an alpha the Sheelf challenge Instagram. Her social

media manager is working over time. I don't really Yeah, theybe she is. She is over she's doing all the talk show appearances. She is, but she's in her account like someone else's. There's nothing about this that. Of course she doesn't. She's never open. Someone is running it for her. But what I'm saying is like I heye accounts like she is a movie star. We love it when you slide into our dms and tell us like what you

want us to watch? And of course you can call to confess at three to three penance that's three to three seven three six two three to six. Leave us a review on Apple podcasts. We love to see them. I'm your co host Rose Damn You. You can find me anywhere on social media at Rose Damn You and I'm Friends Squish Coo. You can find me anywhere on social media as well. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, leave us a review

on Apple Podcast or rating on Spotify. Like a Virgin is an I Heart Radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Hitch and Nikki Etour until next week See Later Virgins