Venus in Gemini

summer break. Although I mean in August, I'm actually going to be working just on different things. So so we're like a virgin LLC. That's actually that's not actually what our l is. Loretta after Struck. Loretta LLC is taking some time off this August, and we so enjoyed recording our Girls Girling episodes in June and are still you know, apart and want to spend a little extra time together.

So you're hearing this now in August, but we're recording it in July, and like those episodes in June, we're going to focus on one topic or theme that is not media or entertainment related and just kind of shoot the ship about that. Yes, so no cultural topic for today, but we were tasked by producer Phoebe to talk about relationships, and I believe the inciting question she's provided us is

why have all your romantic relationships failed? Which just goes to show that Phoebe um knows us very well and also is a bitch. I will, okay, so let me just caveat this because it's not necessarily inaccurate to say to ask why have all your romantic relationships failed? Because as far as relationships go, you and I have maybe not been in as many as the average girl, or maybe um just like don't prioritize or like market our

lives through relationships the way some people do. But I will say, and also, neither of us are currently in a relationship, so you know, just by by you know, logic, that means all of our previous relationships have failed because none of them continue to endure. But I will say, just to be that girl, that I actually just don't feel like any of my relationships have been quote unquote failures.

I I really believe in like love cycles. I believe that like all relationships kind of teach me things and like give me something new, um and cult and I do feel like I and the product. I think, like who I am today is the product of a lot of ex lovers and like it they have you know, given me or taught me in the time that I spent with them. So like when a relationship ends, I don't necessarily think of it as a failure. I think

of it as the end of a love cycle. Um. And I don't know, I I yeah, I just wanted to copy at that. Okay, well, thank you for providing that context. Um. You know a lot of my relationships have failed because I wasn't exactly interested in them. Um. I as I've I've kind of like jokingly said on this podcast before, like that I think I might fall somewhere on the A romantic or demi romantic spectrum. And like,

I don't know how true that is. I think, like for me defining it in that way, it's not super helpful. It's just like relationships have never been a huge priority for me. And I really love the beginning of a relationship. I love a crush, I love that feeling of obsession, and then as soon as my interest is returned, I lose it. Um. So that's kind of how all of my relationships have mostly failed, and then also a lot of them have been just because what if that didn't happen.

I got to the point where I wanted to like define what we were, and the other person and I were not on the same page. Either. I wanted to be you know, boyfriends or girlfriends or whatever, and the other person didn't or the other person did, and I was like, that's not what we are. I guess the biggest problem with all my romantic relationships has the through line has been just not being on the same page

as the other person. You know, Like the last time I actually dated someone when it ended was when I said, like, so we've been dating for a while, do I call you my boyfriend? And the other person was like, oh, I didn't think that was something we were doing, which is like so gas lady, because like it's not just about words, like you show people through actions how you were defining your relationship. And this was someone who very

much acted like my boyfriend. Yes, if you're playing house and doing all this ship, if you're if you're like raking in on the emotional intimacy, like because he wanted me to like come over every night just to sleep. He like texted me every day. He wanted to like go out to dinner all the time. I guess maybe what pushed him over the edge was one time after we had sex, I set his call to Garson wallet on fire by accident. On accident. It was an accident.

He had a hit a lit candle and I you know, knocked his wallet into it and it lit on fire. But he definitely was my boyfriend. And then when I was like, so, you're my boyfriend, right, he was like whoa. Whoa was such a huge red flag, an immediate chop um. So I similarly, I have similar problems. I feel like I'm always not on the same page with like the romantic partners that I find, and um, I'm usually trying

to keep things casual and they want something more. I'm trying to feel it out or take my time and and that's just not where they are. And that's usually a consequence of dating people that are younger than me, which happens all the time. But I will say my

relationships usually start in kind of the inverse way. I cannot in any way develop a real crush on someone unless I have green light confirmation that they like me or that they're into me, Like my crush, and I don't I don't know if this is like a really great, very healthy approach relationships or if it's just narcissism. But like, I truly cannot find that you know, crushy feeling until it feels like a possibility for me, And I think that kind of cuts me off from a lot of opportunities. Like,

but it's probably healthy. It is healthy. I mean, I'm grateful for it because I'm not like stuck, not since high school, at least not stuck like pining over people that aren't going to love me back um or aren't even gonna like, you know, think about think about me.

But it also like cuts me off from opportunity because if I don't have a green light, if I don't have like initial flirting or anything, which is really difficult for me to pick up on in the first place, like I just won't even consider you as a prospect um, And so I tend to play defense. And anybody that ever wants to get me, which has always always been true and probably will stay true, usually has to approach me first in sub capacity, you know. And I think

that's when I start to engage. But yeah, I don't know it's so hard especially when like, especially in like queer relationships, like the situation ship just is rain supreme. It rains supreme, and I am in a lot of them, and I feel like, you know, the only ethical way to do situation ships is that is if you're both on the same page about being in situation ships. And that has been like my last few relationships have been that they've been things that we have not labeled, but

we have like in subcapacity committed to each other. Um. But it creates tension if one of the partners is not forthcoming about what their wants and needs are and um, the the the issue really at the end of the day usually is like they want something that I do not want, or they're not willing to take it at the pace that I want to take it, or we're not finding a way to compromise, or I don't know.

I I think that To answer Phoebe's inciting question, I do feel like a lot of my relationships become about power, dynamic and control. And you always have the power, you know, you always want the power? Yeah, I do. Well, I wouldn't say I always want the power. I would say in recent and like the last two ish years, I've really conceded myself to my lovers and tried my hardest to be less like the person that I used to be, but but trying to reclaim how our relationships does come

naturally to me. So it is a vice I I end up falling into. Like I I like things to be on my terms. I like and you ask what you want, you you ask for what you want in

relationships exactly. But the thing is, if I date you long enough, what I eventually have to kind of let you in on is just say, like, hey, my first relationship, which was a year and a half long, was really emotionally traumatizing and like it was with a person who controlled everything that I did and and and so now I've basically shaped all of my future relationships after that to protect myself in a way that is sometimes overcorrective and you know, not fair to the partners that I

take on. And sometimes I mean someone that I dated a few years ago, I had to be like, hey, like, I don't know why I reacted this way. I don't know why I did this. I don't know why I did that. I'm so sorry. I think it's coming from this has to do with like my last relations or this has to do with relationships eons ago, and it doesn't have to do with you. And I'm so sorry

that it's that I brought it in. I mean, that's it's really good that you're so self aware about it, because despite the fact that I don't, or maybe because of the fact that I don't have a lot of romantic relationships, when I have been in them, I just act like fucking crazy person and I don't really have any self control. And that feeling of like having a

crush and it being something that is controlling you. That is really most of my experience with relationships and probably why I choose not to shape my life around them, because I know that I'm just like prone to that.

There's someone who I dated right around right before I started transitioning who just like never kind of gave me what I wanted but always strung me along and he was so hot and I was so obsessed with him, and then would like periodically pop back into my life over the years and say things like, oh, well, I actually think I might be bisexual and I might be into women, and like give me a little bit of hope, and then that feeling of not having control of how

I acted around this person would come back and we even he he was really into uh sticking pokes at one point, and he one time we like hung out and he gave me a tattoo and then I tattooed my name on his ass um. Oh my god, that's so punk. That's like very you not gonna lie it is and it was so it was so hot, and I said to him, like after it happened, I said, so you know that I own you now, and he's like,

I know, I've always known that. And it was crazy to me how he could say things like that that we're so hot, but like then not follow that up with giving me what I actually wanted, which was just like him. And so because of that feeling, I am someone who likes control. And so I guess one of the reasons why I have chosen not to order my life around romantic relationships is because I don't want to, in a larger sense, give up the control over my

life that I have. And yeah, I guess I'm too into being the person who says what I what I'm doing, and what I want um to like give up that larger control and I mean you said you kind of read me kind of Recently, we were talking about doing our live show in New York and I was saying that the reason that I I didn't want to do it is because I couldn't be in control of it and the way I wanted, and you said, no, what it's actually about is you don't want to be uncomfortable.

And I think that's another big part of it, is, like relationships are really uncomfortable. You're giving so much of yourself, You're putting so much of yourself into someone else's hands and letting them decide, and you're letting someone see you in a really vulnerable way, and that to me is extremely uncomfortable. And because I know I have this propensity to like become so obsessed with someone that I'll like

literally them do whatever they want. I'll let them like tattoo something on my body, I just don't let myself get to the point where that could even start to happen. I similarly, like I can, I can try. I'm very protective, and I think I don't know if it's in the same way, but like I can be very codependent, like extremely codependent with like my lovers and like I when I get into a rhythm with them, I want them

around all the time. And I get really scared of that version of myself, like my Venus is and Gemini and like a switch flips, and UM, I think it's it's something that can be really terrifying, Um, to make yourself that vulnerable or uncomfortable, as you're saying. And I think a lot about worthiness. And I think that you and I just actually have arrived at a place where we really do know our own worth. Like we really

do know how good we are at our jobs. We know like how we ascend, We know like how good we are actually have relationships and communication, how adult we are, like how stable we are in our own lives, and like it's really hard for prospective lovers to even come close to like where we are. You know, I know, I really I can't imagine being with someone who's not on my level. And I don't mean that, and I mean that in many ways, not just in one way. Also,

my Venus is also in Gemini. Wait are you kidding me? Yeah, my Venus is in Gemini in the second house, jaw direct. We need to talk to Channy about this, Um, we need to conference her and immediately that is whack a doodle. Yes, but so um I think when I over the past couple of years, I have found myself getting a lot more attention from younger people, which is not necessarily like

who I normally am the most attracted to. And because of that, I can't imagine dating someone who does not have their shipped together in the same way I do, so like, I don't even like consider this like people as partners and I and I mean that on so many levels, like I mean financially, like someone who who has their ship together with their career at least like knows what they want to do or is like working towards that, And also someone who knows themselves because a

lot of people really don't know themselves. And you and I are two people who have done a lot of work to become almost painfully self aware. And you know, if my romantic relationships could be at the level as my you know, friendships are, maybe, but it's it's so much work. I mean, you and I do so much processing, and I an't imagine doing that with someone I have sex with. Okay, two things. First of all, the overprocessing

thing is so real. I do feel like I've done so much self work, but now to the point of just like it becoming an issue. You like, one of my last serious relationships. Our relationship had already ended, but we had you know, one of those like months later, like let's talk a little bit about it and how when or whatever. And something that he said has really

stuck out to him. He was like, we spent so much time processing and talking about what wasn't going wrong or how you were trying to fix yourself or how I was trying to fix myself. Like we spent so much time saying how we were going to do better that we never like just were we never were in the actual relationship because we're talking too much about the futurity and how to improve it. And I was, but was but was that a direct result of conflict you

were having? It was? It was? It was. It was a direct result of conflict and also a direct result of me being and like I think my first year of therapy, so there was a lot going on. It was the pandemic because I think when you have when you have conflict, like you need to work through it. That's one of the reasons why fran I have a good friendship and are able to work together. And it's like I was talking to someone about this recently, like

it's not just something that happens. Fran and I have had some very you know, not but very intense moments in our friendship where we have had to call each other out or call each other in and really talk about it because our friendship is really important to both of us. Um And I know that I'm someone with interpersonal relationships that if I don't, if I don't bring something a problem up when it's happening, it will just fester and become something much bigger than what it is.

And that's like, I'm so grateful that I'm able to come to you and say, like, hey, this thing happened the other day and it has been kind of bugging me. And I know that if I just don't say something about it, it's going to keep bugging me. So let's just talk about it. Um And I just can't see myself doing that with a romantic partner because all the times I've tried it has so backfired on me. I just don't prioritize romantic relationships. I let romantic relationships happen

to me. They fall into my lap. Someone approaches me, I'm going to engage with that because you've taken the time. And if I think you're sexy or fun and I want to date, but like I'm just not hawking for them. I don't go out to the clubs to look for relationships. I'm there with my girlies. When I imagine my life, when I and I'm someone who doesn't want to get married, okay, like I do want to be a wife, okay, but like when I imagine my life, I imagine that wedding

or like what my life looks like. I don't imagine myself and a partner. I imagine myself and a partner and a community of people that we have like built our lives around, and with that we are cultivating lives together that I'm helping raise my friends kids that I am like you know that I'm traveling all the time with my friends and with my partner, Like I don't want isolated time to no end with like my you know, betrothed or whoever. It is, like it's just I can't

I can't even imagine that. I thought that I think is the problem. Although I do have moments where I think, you know, last week it was my birthday, and I did think it would be so nice to have a partner who was like making sure that I was, you know, having a good day or like whatever. But those are really the only moments where I think about that. And part of all this is I'm so bad at dating and I just don't It's like, I mean, dating is

working hard. I mean, it's it's a it's it's a combination of being bad at it and also being completely disinterested, and a big part of it is being out of practice with it. So much of this is you know, a byproduct of over two years of the pandemic and just like not my social muscles not being what they used to be. But I remember, like right after I moved to l A, you know, I was trying to find connection. I was like not just I wasn't really using Grinder because I didn't want to have casual sex

because of the scary COVID of it all. But I started to use like tender more. And there are people who wanted to like meet up in the park and go on a walk, and I mean, first of all, I don't ever want to I don't ever want to meet up with someone in a park ever again. But I was so out of practice of talking to a human being I didn't know in real life, and dating was already something that I had been really like bad about and disinterested in, and so I just like fully

opted out of it. I remember even I even made plans to meet up with someone and then just ghosted them because I was like, I can't do this. I don't have the spoons for it. I mean, yeah, I mean, I you know, you shouldn't be too hard on yourself.

I think it's it's worth saying. And what probably virgins at home already know is that, like dating as a trans person is extremely hard, and dating is hard for girls like us, but like especially for girls like you, like yours and my transness are extremely different, and like I benefit from just you know, still dating faggots, you know, like we date dip completely different pools of people um to summit to some extent, and you know, I just like the mental back flips and kind of inner monologues

that you have to have just to get yourself in the door is just completely different than probably most people listening to this podcast. You know, yeah, I think I you know, I would imagine that a lot of trans people can understand that experience, and like a lot of since people might not have a way to even conceptualize

what it is like as a trans person. Two, think about dating, to think about meeting someone if you've never met before, and like all of the things you have to sort of like prepare yourself for about how they might interact with you or see you. And yeah, like not even honestly, like microaggressions are like the baseline, but like what's worse actually is like what they don't say,

but what you know they're thinking. Yeah, And I started and I started like being especially in the past, I don't know, maybe six months that you know, I do not hook up with people as often as I used to, and when I do, I'm much more upfront. I like really don't want to have sex with men who consider themselves straight at all. And like, you know, I'm by, but I do primarily have sex with men. It's just

easier to casually have sex with with men. I'd really do not want to have sex with anyone who doesn't consider themselves queer. And I have started like the last person I had sex with, um who's by, I said something along the lines of like just you know, like I don't consider myself super cis passing. So if that's something you're interested in, if you're like on Grinder specifically looking for looking for trans women, that's just not my tea.

And and he, you know, was like, oh yeah, Like I would never think that my opinion on how someone presented like should have any impact on them. And that's not something I really care about at all. And so it is like very reassuring to me to have those kinds of caveats upfront and out of the way. But

it's still like, is scary. I think it's less scary when it's just sex, but if you have a feeling that it could be more than that, I think when you're trans, it's just like you're always waiting for the shooter drop, I mean, honestly, though, to end on some lightness, I have to bring up a point that we talked about in the Honey Pluton episode, which is that you and I would be exceptional contestants on a dating show. I think I would be a great judge or a host.

No no, no, no no, I don't want to be a contestant, baby, baby, this this is my plea virgins. If you know casting directors, producers, you know people that work on reality shows, especially if you know someone that works on funk Boy Island who is trying to develop a queer funk they Island. We want to be cast. We would be excellent dating contestants. I want to be the host, okay, fine, But beyond that, what I'm trying to do, Rose, is use this public platform to get

you laid, okay, like all of us deserve. I'm totally I'm totally open to people sliding into my d M. Hello. I mean, even though you don't read your d m s, what's the best way actually? Rose? Like, So I did I do read? I check my d m s. I don't wait on to them. I G not Twitter, right, I G yeah, I don't check my Twitter Twitter? Okay for me? I also d ms also work, especially for Instagram, so that I can see what you look like first, um, And I feel like, don't DM me if you live

in like wherever the fuck? Yeah, if you live in l A and you want to slide, go forward, slide, We'll see. And for me, I mean, I'm a bicoastal girl, but like I'm in New York, right, now, so hit me up. Next week we'll be back with another you know, chit chatty episode, so you know nothing to prep for that, but come prepared for us to get a little deep, little vulnerable. Um And as always, you can leave us a review on Apple podcast It helps us so much.

I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You can find me anywhere online at Rose Damn You, and I'm Franterato. You can find me at friends, Wish, go anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, leave us a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. We love to see them. Like a Virgin is an I Heart Radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch

and Nikki Etour. See you next week. Virgins by Chow Audioles