Smize Cream (feat. Tre'vell Anderson)

because you're dead to me. Today we are talking about the groundbreaking reality television competition America's Next Top Model, and we have Travell Anderson here to talk about it with us, because this is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you, and I'm Fran Toronto, and I have been preparing for

this episode for months. Literally, as the person who uses someone else's Hulu account and gave that log in to Fran and sees what Fran is watching on Hulu, I can confirm that France has been watching nothing but Top Bottle from months. It is so addictive and really interesting to watch. We'll get into interesting is a good word for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I think that honestly, a lot of the conversations people are having on social media about like this show and like canceling Tyra whatnot.

I think that kind of black nuanceenter a little boring, but we'll get into that which today we're going to talk about the uncancellable Tyra Banks. Yes, that's right. I finally watched the new Scream movie last night. Five Cream, five Cream. Have you seen it yet? Yeah? Okay, I did. When Dewey died. I mean I didn't cry, but I felt a little emotional. What about the Dewy death made

you cry? I don't know, it just was and it was more like um Courtney Cox's reaction to it, and like her extension work of like whipping her head around and her hair being everywhere, like you know, not a tear falling from her eyes, but it was. I thought it was generally a pretty good Scream movie. I don't think it was quite as smart as the last Scream movie. It was a standout. It was a really good um

revamping of the formula with Emma Roberts. And I really hope that since there is a six one being made, that they do bring back Kirby as played by Hayden Penetier. I would die, Oh my gosh, this movie does confirm that she's alive and survived the last movie, so they need to bring her back. She needs to actually be a lesbian this time. I want her to the same haircut. Last night, I watched A Bug's Life, which stars Hayden Penetier as Dot the like tiny princess, but the world

is ready for a for a Penetier assance. Absolutely, did you ever watch Nashville? No, but I watched the first couple of seasons and like, that's the first couple of seas. I thought you were gonna say, the first couple of episodes. I watched the first couple. I watched the first three seasons and it was gripping, and Hayden was great in it, and Connie Britten is a legend. Her Instagram bio is

still hey, y'all, y'all. Okay, wait back to Scream. The franchise thrives on meta humor, and that's like always what

it's been about. But I feel like they tried to make the magic happen too many times with this movie, because like the meta humor I think was so absurd in the fourth movie, Like what they are trying to get away with in terms of meta jokes has like accrued and accrud and a crude movie by movie, and now by this movie, it's like I wish you had started fresh and found other jokes to make, because I actually didn't feel like there were a lot of jokes, or at least ones that I remember, outside of the

fact that like, oh, we're in a scary movie, and it's funny that we're talking about scary movies, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, I get that. It just became repetitive to me in in a way that I had never felt watching other screen movies. But if you want to hear more about screen movies, you can go back and listen to our episode on Scream and Slasher Flicks, The Final Doll, which is one of our better episode titles. Are we excited about this restored gay kiss in the

hot Buzz Lightyear movie? Only if it looks like the fan art that I sent you of Buzz pulling Woody's string. Let me tell you first of all, I mean, I'm sure everyone has already discussed this on the internet, but Buzz is so hot in this trailer, and we know that he's not going to be the gay one, which suck, but like apparently the gay kiss scene was restored into the movie as which means it was previously edited or censored out, which Disney has a history of doing. And

you know, it's probably like a peck of the frame. Yeah, it's gonna be as lame as honestly Robert Pattinson kissing Zoe Kravitz in the Batman Movie, if not worse unless buzz like your show's whole I'm not interested. Yeah, and what sucks because he's a toy. Yeah, And I wanted to bring it up as like an extension of like last week's convo about like the whole like don't say

a Gay Bell thing. It actually is like so shitty that they get to have like a press release or headline about this new gay moment that was already like censored out, like in reaction to like all this outrage

over they don't say gay Bell. It's like everything. I think it's pretty transparent though, because everything I've seen about it immediately then says this comes after Disney staffers revolted following their CEOs funk up of supporting the Don't Say Gay bill, So I don't know, it's like pretty transparent. And probably we'll still see the movie. Yes, I'm definitely gonna see it. I think that honestly, the virgins have to know that. Like you and I, we have this

like like recurring bit on our show. We're like something is announced about a new gay character in a Marvel movie or like a new gay something in a Disney whatever, and we're always like, like it's so annoying, and like the reason this is like so frustrating is because corporations get to like do extremely like homophobic and transphobic things and then like spin it around and like profit off of it by way of like quote unquote representation matters

kind of bullshit, you know, but it's like, I don't know, we just over emphasize the importance of representation and we say representation matters, and like if you go and see our representation, it's like activism and like you feel empowered, but it's like empowered to do activism is activism, yeah, exactly. And that's the other thing is like empowered to do what,

like empowered to fight entities like Disney. Like that is like literally the movie is proselytizing something that is in direct diametric opposition to the very values that the actual institution stands for. And the only reason that they're going back on their ways is because they're realizing that they're losing profit. Like I just you can never look to a corporation like Disney for a meaningful political action, And

I get it. I want children to also grow up in a world where they see themselves reflected in the media they consume, but it exists other places. They'll find it other places. And like Disney is just always going to be too scared about alienating their conservative consumers, then about pandering to what they see as a very small minority of the marketplace until someone hires me to do a gay Prince story. I refuse to believe that anything Disney does. Yeah, and I'll just keep writing fan fiction.

I should speaking of I did like that line and scream where you were like, are you saying I'm in fan fucking fiction? It was that was actually really good. I'm speaking of fan fiction. Um Fran implored me to watch the new Apple TV series We Crashed this weekend, is fan fiction about the lives of Adam Newman and his wife, who were the founders of We Work. It's not good. It's not good. Right, it's not good, And like,

why is it called we crashed? It should be like we flopped, We flopped, But it's it's based on a podcast, which like similarly to The Dropout. It's like this TV show about a scam. It's based on a podcast that like investigates the lives of the people who perpetrated the scam and tries to figure out why they did it. But there's just nothing not even just like redeemable about

the two characters. It's just they're just not interesting. And Jared leto, we need to stop letting him into makeup trailers. And you know, I watched the documentary about the whole We Work thing, and I went back and looked at photos of Out of Newman after watching the show this weekend, and like, the stuff that Jared let us doing is not even making him look like the person he's playing.

It's just drag. It's so dumb. Yeah, it's frustrating. There's nothing compelling about their romance to me, like, I don't understand. I also agree, I don't understand why Anna is taking this role. Like I'm really proud of her for, you know, disappearing into the character by bringing her voice to a slightly lower register so that she sounds like poor sha ROSSI.

But it's like the soundtrack also, like rather the score really positions the two of them as this like tragic hero story, like you're really kind of ass yeah, and you're but they're trying to make you feel like a lot more empathy for like their romance, but there's nothing compelling about it. And like, I think like it would have been so much more successful if Anne Hathaway was a huge asshole instead of like a subtle kind of vegan ass well, the show was very sympathetic towards her.

I do. I do like how Rebecca, who Anne Hathaway is playing, is the cousin of Gwyneth Paltrow, and I love every time they mentioned Gwyneth or like at her wedding, people keep asking if Gwyneth is going to come and she gets increasingly furious about it. I thought that was funny and like, Anne Hathaway must know Gwyneth Paltrow, but Gwyneth is very like mean, she loves like self referential humor, so she has no idea the show exists, so she

probably doesn't even know this woman is her cousin exactly exactly. Yeah, yeah, I think that just and like thrives when she gets to play an asshole, like when I think of Oceans eight or The Witches, the Witches or um even Catwoman, Like she actually is really good at being a bit And I kind of wish that I had seen it here. But when thing's for sure, Jared Leto he went on down to the dere Kensley School of Dialect Coaching and he brought us a brand new accent and let me

tell you, I actually enjoy it. It's horrible, but I I do like the accent. Um. Okay, did you listen to the new Charlie xc X this weekend? I did. Yeah, I think it's really good. I think it needs to be twice as long as it is. It is. It is an EP, it is not an album. Um, but it's really good. I I guess I hadn't spent a lot of time with the stuff that she's already released. The arena song is good, Aby is good. I really like Constant Repeat, Yuck is great. It's a really solid

little album. Um, and I just it. It's just insane that it's thirty three minutes long, but I guess like it's it's all killer, no filler, and like Charlie just like didn't make the filler tracks, which you know, I guess is is what it is. I just would like a little more. I think I would too. I felt like, I mean, Yuck is also my favorite song, even though

it's like pretty much a do Jaquet song. I mean, she does her kind of signature vocal distortion thing on these tracks, but not the kind of like Sophie esque hyperpop. I'm glad she's moved on from hyperpop and didn't get

stuck in it because her last couple releases. While while I do think Charlie is always on the cutting edge of what's next in pop music, like it was starting to feel like she was staying at that party a little too long, and I'm happy that she has has looked forward exactly, and like I don't know, I really like I didn't really listen to new Shapes, and then I went back and I was like, oh yeah, like Caroline's like verse on this like eats and like I

love the first song cry Charlie, Caroline Chris, my friend my friend Ryan was like, thoughts of trap stamp right there, some gay is going to get that it'll be interesting to see what is next for her, what her touring. This album looks like. I did find myself thinking, like, do any straight people sent to Charlie because she feels like, and I don't mean this in a mean way, like Charlie feels like an inside joke, Like she feels like a meme that is only for gay people. It feels

like music only gay people can hear. And I know, I'm sure there are some straight people who listen to Charlie, but like, but this does feel like, especially since it's ending her contract with a record label, it feels like a sellout album. And when I say sell out, I don't mean that a negative way. I actually don't mind when artists sell out sometimes. In fact, I think sometimes their music gets better. But this album really feels like it's here for bangers and for TikTok sounds. And I

also think she played with that in the promotion. She like tweeted a lot of things that were like doing this for my label, that kind of stuff. Like I think she is playing into the idea of herself as like a major label pop star, and like that's part of the persona she's putting on for this album cycle, right, and that's I think maybe why the first video was a funeral, because she's like killing part of her career.

Oh yeah, Oh I love that. Honestly, if if she continues to sell out, I will see her Vegas residency. I I really wonder what the rest of her career is going to look like and like, in you know, twenty years, who is the artist that Charlie xc X is going to be. I think that this could be the album where it's no longer like, you know, a gay dog whistle, or she could really you know, stay a niche artist and just like keep making really like forward thinking pop music. I guess we should wrap up

with talking about drag race Um. This week was the lip Sync smack Down Extravaganza. I mean, despite being furious that no one was eliminated last week, I did think this was a fun episode. I liked all the queens having the chance to lip sync, and it just further confirmed for me that Willow Hill will win this season. I will say I don't think she necessarily like outright one that lip sync over Bosco. I think there's an argument to be made either way, Like they were both

doing kind of similar things I think energetically. But she's playing the game very smart, she really is. I mean it's she's been hiding her talent from the beginning. And if I picking picking Bosco because she knew that Bosco would pick the song she wanted to, She's ing for d Chess. That is so good, And I will disagree with you slightly. I think willow Hill's lip sync is one of my favorite performances I have seen on drag

Race period. It's good. It was good, but it's it was the kind of lip sync that like, it was good, but if I was watching it in a bar, I would probably like use the chance to like walk over and get a drink. Okay, so I haven't. I'm having the inverse reaction because the reason I loved it so much is because it wasn't drag Race lip singing. It was not I am a lip sync assassin. It was not like I am lip syncing for my life right now.

It was I am at a bar performing for people that I love, and I'm serving you face And the only way you're going to enjoy this performance is if you look me dead in the eyes. And I feel like because she had so much performance in her eyes, and she did very minimal but very effective things with her body that we're surprising and like unexpected. I was just like, I was like, that is such a sweet spot for me. And I felt like I was at the Rosmann or something watching like one of my girls

performance so straight but like with total precision. And I feel like the thing that precision is a very good word to use. Yeah, And I think the other thing is like when it comes to like drag grace lip snks in general, nine times out of ten, especially Jasmine Kennedy, you are not selling in the face. Jasmine Kennedy said, I can't stand her. I really felt for her super hard, but like she I've just never really enjoyed any of her lip syncs. I don't think she has control of

her body. It's so chaos. Dick. Yeah, I think she'll be better in like five years maybe, but yeah, I agree, it's not right. But the Jasmine Kennedy problem is a problem that a lot of these girls have. Is like they have the kicks and the flips and the splits and the stunts and whatever, but if you're not selling

it in the eyes, your performance is like empty. And I think that a lot of these girls lose it in the eyes, which is like which sucks because they're probably it's a really nerve wracking place to perform, like it's really hard to stay focused. But like Willow went into the zone and it's so hard to really sell it in the eyes. And I think that that is like what she accomplished, and it's one of my favorite

performances I've ever seen on Drive right. I do think she used the medium the best, Like she knew that she was on television and that if she did a very precise, captivating performance it would it would read really well, not only in the room but on camera. I just think she's very smart and she will win. I don't. But today we are here to discuss none other than America's next top the the reality competition show. I think

like that that started it all in a way. She was that girl, America's next to Idol was that girl. I mean she was a year after American Idol, which you know, fine, but a t M that girl, and it created this like it created this wave of competition shows like it, like Project Running with a year after Drag Race was a few years after, Like so many shows used a t M as the template. I don't give Tyra Banks for credit en, yes, y'all to, but

that's why I'm here. I was because Tyra Banks deserves Okay, she is all of these kids it's parents, you know that are all these ugly shows that are on TV right now? She is mother, Well she is. Let's give some context. So I watched Top Model as it was airing. Fran, you had never seen it until I kind of bullied you into using my um Hulu login because you were using the Hulu that had ads. Man, I said, I

can't deal with this anymore. That is literally well, I used my friends Hulu account and he pays to not have ads, so I like to share the wealth, of course, but like I would never have a Hulu account with ads also, and also Rose would never give me a Hulu account out of the kindness of her heart. It

was weird France apartment. I was like, I can't deal with that here, and it has kind of messed up my algorithm a little bit because because I will go to watch something and like it's like you already watched this week's Abbott's element Abbott Elementary and like, well, no, Fran watched it. Should I be logging in his mommy, which is the other profile. No, that's Ryan's actual mom Ryan mom. No, it's Ryan's account. That's what I'm telling you. Okay,

well I'm sorry, Ryan, I'm using your account. So Fran had never seen Top Model, has only recently delved in what have you been watching since the beginning watching since the beginning season one? Adrian Curry Mary who was married to um but of the Brady Bunch. She was I forgot about one of the original I actually was thinking about this recently because, um, do you listen to who Weekly or do you know the podcast? So they were

one of their callin shows. Someone asked about her and if she was still married to the Brady Bunch guys. She's not. She lives on a farm with with the guy who does the voice for like every movie trailer, Like he's like he's the guy who's like in a world where you know he like does So she's married to him and and the Brady Bunch guy makes furniture. He makes Oh, he makes the patio furniture that was

used in the Megan Marco Oprah interview. That is so specific. Yeah, if you have more details on this, please go listen to Who Weekly. But anyway, Adrian Curry, Yes, the first season, I was there from the beginning. I've seen it. I've

seen twenty two out of the twenty four cycles. There were a couple of years where I had to dig out that is a lot of viewing it is, and then I rewatched it all during the pandemic watch seasons or do you stop at a certain I started from the beginning and went to the end, to the end, I have to admit, Okay, even though I watched from the beginning, I've only seen probably the first eight seasons, and then I did watch the reboot seasons with Rita

or of course Red Alert. I mean I did as well, but but I missed I missed the like from eight on, and so I missed all the ones with Andre Leon Tally. I missed the ones where they've brought in male models less iconic, but they gave us now DeMarco, so shout out to care about um. I just for the virgins

wrapping the Virgins out here. I had maybe seen one or two episodes, like as a kid, my mom and sister used to watch it, but like preparing for this episode, I've watched the first six seasons, and then to Andre Leon Tally seasons and then Jade's season as well. Okay,

oh that's a great that's a great overview. I really wanted to watch isis is season in time, but then I was like, I actually don't want to watch her endure a bunch of transper I recently revisited it for a book I'm writing, and it's well, I mean, I think season one is a great place to start or also just to talk broadly about very wacky things that come from them. Well maybe maybe the early season. I don't. I don't remember a lot of season one. Season two

is my favorite season. Iguana. You know, they can't call her iguana the whole time. So Shandy who famously cheating on her boyfriend, you had sex, Oh my god, sex the little bitch ass boyfriend on the phone. That was an amazing season. And then you Wanna you wanna the helmet and the helmet photos so good, Oh my god.

One of my favorite things about the early seasons, which still actually happens and throughout um, is that the like Christian and or conservative girls that are always cast on this every every cycle has like like one or two or three of these Christian girls and they immediately become

the villains of the show. Do you remember Robin Um Robin was the black one cycle one, cycle one when she was like super religious, super and she was also the plus size and she was the plus and I say plus size and plus she was a size ten, notably sex but like that she was like I remember her being there was wasn't there like drama in a challenge where like they had to pose nude or in like lingerie and she didn't want to do it because of her Christian values. But then behind the scene she

had like Mr J or whatever for her. I remember Ja Manuel being like listen here, like this is you

are contradicting yourself. But I also loved that, like the one who there was a girl who almost won that season who had the whole time is complaining about how she thought the show was trivial and she thought modeling was stupid whatever, but she was ostracized immediately immediately for being an atheist, which I thought was so bad as but like they literally Robin did like a prayer circle from this girl and on television and then after I think, um, I feel like the whole tea with like Robin was

that she wouldn't pose nude and that was like part of elimination. And I remember Janne Stickinson being like, well, if you don't want to pose nude, you can go

work at a factory or bakery or ben alight. Well that's another thing with the first couple of seasons that Jannas Dickinson was one of the judges, and she was I mean, just the amount of times that she said the word tranny, like, oh, I mean, that was one of their favorite words, like tranny, she mail like, and jan was also saying egregiously anti black things, like they're definitely egregiously the entire time. She's literally and like a

neo Nazi on the entire season. She's all right, she was at the capital on Oh my God, I literally though, I mean, I just like I was, so there was nothing redeemable about na. It was entertaining though at the time. It was so entertained at the time. This woman is wild, but like I can't look away. I was, I felt I kind of I was bummed that I didn't watch it live because there's so many components of it that

I would have found really entertaining. To be like a little queer kid like um getting access to this like glamorous fashion world, yes Hunt yes, like A and t M. I always say introduced me to my first to possibility models Miss j Alexander and Andre Leon Tally. It was through this show. This show is icoonic. Okay, people don't talk about it and left I know we were talking. It also is the root for like half of the memes on the internet. Actually literally so many mope but

make it fashion. But there's also um I think it's and then the like the like woke versions of that like feminism but make an intersectional. It was like, okay, girl, there's in season fourteen there there's a contestant named Alaysia and there's a moment where she gets saved and you don't think she was going to get saved and she's like kind of crying and rooting her fists like this, and I was in time. I was like, that is a meme that like it had no like things that

you have no idea where the girl fainting. Okay, you'll have to be more specific because many you know the girls who like who fainted them during judge. This would have been her eyes roll back. She had like a rare like you know, it's so funny. A lot exceptions for because with her, she was dismissed and she came back and they were like, oh, you're you're good. Don't worry about it. You have to worry about this challenge.

But then some girls have literal medical emergencies like Danielle, like just qualified and like the doctors like, do not leave the hospital. It's against medical advice to the hospital, and she leaves to the photo's like listen, she won, and she won that season entire and Tyre always reads them. She's like, when I was a model, there's always one of those. I slept in a room with twelve other girls, okay, and they steal my stuff and they didn't like because

I was black, And she loves that, Okay. As a Tyra her story, can you like set the scene for us of where Tyra was in her career when Top Model started. So Tyra had already become a major star, like a major celebrity. She had already converted that kind of model energy, particularly through Victoria's secret stuff, because allowed her to show her personality and all of that. Victoria was the culture. It was the culture at was this post kyote Ugly. This, Oh my god, I forgot that

she was. I'm going to look at it. I please look it up because kyote Ugly is two thousand when the top Model start Top Model started in two thousand three. If I'm not wow, oh my god, wow post coyote Ugly, which iconic? I mean? Yes, She's my favorite thing, my favorite Thanksgiving movie. Okay, I don't know why, but I consider it a Thanksgiving movie. I see that, Yeah, I see that. It gives November. Ye. Okay. So Tyra's already

an anointed celeb. She's already an annointed celeb, and then she also has this just like personality that folks have loved and seen in interviews or whatnot, right, and that is what, you know, helped her get this show again. This was that like that beginning era of like good reality TV, right, the Simple Life American idol. Like I mentioned, we should do a Simple Life episode. I've never seen, really, girl, you haven't seen a lot over there for an end.

It's the conceit of the show. Why we do the podcast. It was like a virgin the show where yesterday's pop calls today's cake. You know um Jay Manuel famously like the story he tells is that Tyra called him because at the time he was her makeup artist. Tyra calls him at like two o'clock in the morning, like, man, I feel like a lot of people get as mannequin like talking and like he thought something was wrong, like there was an emergency and like he was something there

was of emergency. And Tyra literally like rattled off the entire concept for the show and she was like I have this idea for the show and like you can do the makeup and like blah blah blah, and she like spewed out the whole kind of show and like we forget that she created the show, like it's it's not like a nowadays, we have a lot of celebrities that are executive producers on things, which really only means that you collect a lot of coin for like you know,

a kind of um you know, it's like a vanity title. But like Tyra was so I feel heavily involved. She made that, she made the pitch that she was super involved. And you can also tell, like even now as a lot of folks have been like revisiting the series right and calling her out for some of the foolishness. Miss Jay has done interviews, had had a whole Instagram series of interviews spilling the realty of like how these stuff

came together, and he was saying the same thing. He was like Tyra Banks was like super involved, but he was like, I also super involved, Like we created these ideas out of our head, but he was like, they're also a reflection of that. The industry at that time was doing racist ship. Do you remember any like specific t that was like that like stuck out to you,

either from that series or otherwise from the JS. You know, I think what it was is a lot of it was just drama around you know, different judges, personalities, different off camera issues. I don't know if y'all remember the season with was it Naima? I think it was her season. They were in somewhere in Africa, um and they had this challenge where they had these male models who were like around them and like, you know, she was felt made to feel uncomfortable or whatever. I think it was Kenya.

But the key it was the girl that they dressed up as an OWLD friend because she had gained right she also became the plus size whatever. Yeah, Yeah, they were like your plus size actually got a little stomach plus anyway, but they were talking. He was talking about how they were like trying to handle it and the response because again he started doing this in the pandemic when people had all these questions, but like, how could you all do that in a post me to world.

They're like, oh my god, you all recorded that and you didn't say nothing. He's like, he's like, listen, you know sometimes there are I mean, I didn't like his answer, that's my disclaimer, okay, but he was just like, listen, things happen that you all don't see. Um, and when it comes down to it, we've got to get the shot. Yes, I mean he I have some quotes. Um, you know. Miss Ja noted Tyra also had bosses, but Jay Manuel said, um, people are throwing her under the bus. But I think

at the same time, I can't defend her. I can't get in her head about what she meant about a lot of controversial things that happened. I'm just going to stipulate this. Everyone keeps asking who allowed that, um, and the Jays stood by and this and that. Let's be real. Almost Tyra has as she has always said in the press it was her show period, she was the host. Heerd anything that happened on the show was sanctioned by

or was creative that Tyra put forward period. That is so t it's with something like that, it's I mean, there are a lot of I mean, there are a lot of things handled in the show that are just abhorrent and egregious. And like the multiple challenges where they had the models be different races. Yeah, almost wants the cycle like someone is meant to like it's the blackface challenge. Literally that in the second Andre Leon Tally season they

do it was like Ghosties. They do a whole photoshoot around crumping actually, and then Twiggies all I've never heard of crumping before, but I don't know if they sees a clump, but it looks delightful, like it's like so so stupid. Listen, they were taking the culture and I know that's idea. Of course it was, of course it

was um but yeah, I I don't know. I think that when I look back on it now, especially with something like that moment where like ken you was kind of being grabbed in a way that was like so not okay, Like it was some of these issues are handled very badly, but not in the worst way, you know, some of like some of the judges tried to stick up for her, but they ultimately were like, but you just got to deal with that, which is like not

how we would treat it today. But I think that's a lot there's a lot of back and forth around like how we hold things accountable, especially when they're from like twenty years ago, and that was unfortunately the culture of the time, right, Like all of the models of the heyday have these stories about like sexual harassment or assault that they've had to deal with just as a

matter of being in the industry. So it makes since that someone like a Tyra Banks or whoever else is like behind the scenes on this show with the women are like, girl, just suck it up like this, like you're about to get this contract, like you know, it was all on camera, so it went bad bad, you know how motherfucker's like used to talk right, Like I remember there was a I think in season two there was this girl who I mean, so many of the

girls had eating disorders, which it's like another it's just another kind of like class of women that like are so set up to fail, like for a show like this, but like there's this girl who was like, I think she actually ended up winning the second cycle you wanna during her ghost sees like which everyone's so mean and at these ghosties, but one of the people was like, one of the people is like, yo, w on it, like you really need to work on your like your body,

you need to work in your tone. And she like very quietly, was like, but I'm assised to like literally like and no one liked and when it campt saddest thing I had ever heard, and it and it like makes it worse than GM's Dickinson is calling literally calling them fatty. Literally literally literally every single one, even the smallest folks. The body fascism never stopped from her. I I literally there were so few redeeming Oh my god,

I just hate Jannas Dickinson. She made great TV the right Let's say that every time she was on my TV, I was watching she had her own reality show. She did it was like the Janice Dickinson modeling agents on like oxygen because there were there are a lot of people have tried to replicate the Formula Top model. There was a Bravo modeling show for like a one season. Um, I guess janesis show. What other modeling reality shows out there? I mean the very of the face, which I love.

Girl Campbells another person who's just great. These older models, they're just great TV. They know what they're doing. Naomi campbell Is. I mean, the show is not as good as America's Next a Model, but Naomi as a TV personality is on par with Tira pointblank period in a completely different way, way, more erratic way. Angry are like just nonsert, like the rate, like these women are like on sets and she's screaming, Well, this is the woman

who famously threw her phone at her assistant. So oh, I'm sure she has thrown many more phones off the record, probably thrown a lot of things. Now she's just got it in the contract that you just expected actually though, Um, but yeah, I mean Janice. Uh. The one moment that did make me I have a really hard time with Jannis. I was like, actually emotionally affected watching her just be so horrible. Um. But one of the moments that did

stick out to me was during Jade's season. Um, there's a contest named Gina who is like kind of struggling. She was the only Asian model, like, and she was being bullied by Jade and Jay we have to talk about. But like Janice, who had already been ousted from the show because her entire basically got into a fight about

plus size models. From what I understand, I think the t is that like Jane's just point blank period didn't want plus size models on the show, and I was like, it's important to me or whatever, among other agreements, and then she was fired from the show. She came back for occasional cameos and she took these girls out for dinner and like no, like I think probably fed by the producers knowing that they like Jade and this girl Gina were like fighting. Was like Gina, like, what's going on?

Telling me? And Gina was like I don't want to. I don't want to tell you what She was like very resistant, and Janice was like, no, you have to fucking tell like literally bullied her into telling her. And then Gina was like, okay, well it's Jade, Like she is like really mean to me, and Janice is like, we never rat out our sisters, and she literally says to Gina, says to this child she says, you're dead to me, bitch buzz and I was like, such such good.

It's so funny because these such a good. A lot of these girls are like like they even if they're like twenty one, they feel like they're fifteen. Like they are all so yeah, they are also and for and these judges treat them like they're five. They want to shake them up. They're like, listen, you wanted this, you

want to be in this business. I'm going to treat you like But you know, some of the girls came in with very strong personalities, like my absolute favorite contestant of all time, ferrand with the walk and with the tips, which I do want to was was a contestant from cycle six, and she came in with Ferranda's tips for successful interaction, which she posted around the house. Here just here,

just a few of them. Tips for successful interaction. Number one, I will treat you in a way that is identical to or worse than the way you treat me reciprocity. Number two, I am the best person to discuss me with Queen. Three. If you need anything other than emergency items, please do not ask me. That's very you, honestly. Number four stay out of my personal business unless I invite

you in Oh my God. They went to Thailand for this season, and one of my favorite Frondo moments again making these girls do things that are not in their uncultural wheelhouse. They all had to do traditional Thai dance, and like it was all about like mimicking very precise movements and all like there were four girls left, I think, and all three of the girls like try to do this very precise tight ends and Franda gets up there

and abandons all of the Korea. It's in front of a live audience and front to get the loudest applause traditional time. It was wild, but it was super ientertated with the resurgence of the Top Model in the pandemic, they've been doing these zoom interviews with folks and talking.

I've seen some of the girls on TikTok's I forget what her name was, but she won one of the All Star seasons and she was talking about how they like gossl at her, and I mean, I think there's I think there's a lot of trauma around Top Model for everyone of them. Yeah. Danny Danielle, who was the season they went to Thailand, she did this whole interview because folks were upset that Tyra and the judges made

her closer gap all right, right and had surgery. Um, And so she did this whole Instagram live thing like clearing the air and like being great, super grateful for it or whatever she is that that's what she said. Yeah, she was like, I was super grateful for it. She was like, could I have had a career with my big gap that big? She's like maybe, but like she's like, life is really good for me right now. And I closed my I closed my gap a little, and I

won the competition. She did win, and she was so incredible. But even after she closed her gap, they were like, well your accent, honey, and they were like dragging her for her app and it's like, but yeah, um, oh god, I feel like um. Also from these early seasons, so I watch so Tiffany. Of course we have to get

to Tiffany. Tiffany was in Triumphs for season three and then made it to the cycle four or whatever, which I didn't realize, but like watching the third and then the fourth cycles like in succession and knowing the legacy of Tiffany, it felt like the hero's journey. It was like Joseph camp Bowl level like epic of like, what when was this going to happen to Tiffany and under what circumstances? Because I actually didn't know the context, and it's crazy, what like the reason that for this to

be the thing that Tyra blew up about. I'm really curious as to like what was going on behind the scenes, because what Tyra was mad about was so was such a non issue, which was that she felt that Tiffany after being fired, after being like, you know, dismissed from the show, was not sad enough. But they literally made her go to They made her go to Anger Management after cycle three because she got into a bar fight

with some literal racist do you remember this. They were at Barney's Beanery and some racist woman like throw a bottle at her, and because she tried to defend herself, they were like, you have to go to Anger Management or something like that. And so she comes back the show and Tyra's like mad at her for not expressing emotions, of which he's gone to like quote unquote treatment to like contain her emotion. It was but it was great TV,

and I will say it was incredible, excellent TV. And I also have just say also from that season, there's a moment where Tiffany and Brandy they were like two little friends. They were two friends that were like in season four. And then there's another contestant that like comes out as like by um in in the in the in the during the season. Yeah, the weird one who had the bacteria, the flesh eating bacteria. Oh my god, the flesh eating and she was like a little was

going on on the show. And I just remember like she basically was like one on one with another girl in there in the private and the privacy quote unquote of her bedroom, telling this girl like, I think the reason I've been so crazy lately is like I have a secret and I'm by. And then it pans over to Tiffany and Brandy behind the door listening, and they turned to each other and she says like to this girl, like I'm by, and Tiffany turns to I'm the other girl.

She's like, oh my god, she's gay. And then they walked into the room and they were like we love you so much, like we support like it's this that was so cute. It was so cute. My favorite part of every season is obviously episode three the makeover. There used to be a YouTube compilation that was just every makeover on Top and I could definitely watch that. I mean the tears, the tears, but like sometimes they were

justified because some of those makeovers were whack. Yes, yes, but the majority of the tears were the girls who had long hair, who felt like they would look like a boy when they cut their hair off, when they when they got the Mia Pharoh and Roseberry's baby special every every seasvery season, and the like this is gonna make you so edgy, this is gonna make you so mod and like the girls just like it's always really funny when someone gets a very dramatic makeover and then

gets sent home that episode. Now you have to leader and let them people cut your hair. Almost every season somebody they change somebody's hair this way and tire was like, that's not what I asked for. You gotta go do it again. Or there was a season where one of the black girls got this like really painful we've put in and the entire was like, that's not what I wanted. So she had to go back and they had to take it out and do it all over again, and

they're always having white people. Do these like black women's hair, especially in the early season. Do you have any favorite contestants and or like wacky moments from earlier seasons. Um, My favorite contestant of all time is Eva the Diva pigfurt Um that season three, she was amazing great television three is a close second. But I love the drama, okay, I love the girls. You know when somebody ate breeze uh food, Oh my god, and she was so upset

about it. I was like, yes, that's what I like. Okay. There was another there was another black girl who was queer. Um. I forget which season, maybe season three, um, who just like had an attitude the entire time. She was ball headed, dark skin. I was like, yes, girl, just be a bit why. She was the first lesbian on the show, and I remember when this bye girl came through, she was like, I just want to be the first lesbian America's next to mine. I was like she was. There

was a lesbian cycle wything. Do you have any favorite challenges? Oh, favorite challenges? I know what mine is. My favorite challenge is season three with the jewelry beauty shot with the hands um. And that's my favorite shoe of all because the drama that Eva gave us that episode, because obviously you gotta spider a girl. I want to face like I get a girl. Um. But that was just so wonderful. The photos for all of the girls were gorgeous. I was like, this, this is this is modeling, frand this

is modeling. My favorite photo shoot was the Seven Deadly Sins in cycle four where they were in the coffin and they made the girl who's best friend best friend had just died, get into the coffin. But she was so good she didn't win the challenge, but that is I feel like that that photo like recirculates like every you know, every like nine months on Twitter. Um, it's

so good. But they also that was another one with r Kenya where they made her be gluttony but all the food and she was eating a burger and I think and I think, um, someone said she looked like a drag queen. Yeah, oh they were that was like that was their favorite. Yeah, she's giving drag queen. But sometimes it was a compliment and other times it wasn't. No,

it was always like you look like a man. It was it was they said that about They kept calling Jade to drag queen, but they would often say it in like like as a positive thing, but that the show really morphs and is inconsistent and how it like compliments people because some women are rewarded for being skinny and some women are punished for being skinny, and some women are you know, it's it's like crazy, It didn't make any sense, but it was great television keep saying, okay,

there is the season fourteen has obviously the challenge where they have to they go to New Zealand and post in front of the hobbiton this happened, So they go to the Shire Girl. But that's the same season where these girls walk down a runway where there's a huge swinging pendulum in front of them that it's like as if they're in the fucking Temple of Doom. The time it perfectly so you don't get knocked over, and none of the girls could do it, like none of the

girls had like rhythm, Oh my god. Um yeah. Also, just any challenge where the girls have to read off of a card or act like like Jade's cover Girl commercials. If you have never seen Jade doing for Cover Girl commercial. Please please go watch it. It is so iconic, as is like almost everything Jade did the whole season. That was this one of the acting challenges. It's my favorite Tyra mal in existence is um. There's like a girl in the confessional and she goes um. So we got

a Tyra mail today that said prepare to die. Like that was it. But they were going to an acting challenge where they had to pretend to die or something with a really famous actor. I can't remember his name, he can't have he can't he he was so he was so famous Tyram. It was always like a black act like it was Ko or like that's Hey Digs or like it was it was Diggs or shamar More. It was always that type of black actor that she would bring to be there, you know, scenemate for those

types of chance. I'm always I'm very interested in like who tires friends are, because like and like who who she inducts into the show, because to put someone like miss j in this show in two thousand three is radical, Like and I don't even I don't even say that with any facetiousness. And it's like, I think, because no one, how have people hadn't really heard of Miss J outside

of the industry. Yeah, outside of the industry, and here like Miss J is like like in his own clothes, you know, Like and I thought that that was like so amazing because she knew that he was the best at what he did, and he was he really was still is. Some would say, so like I love Miss J.

You know, I could talk about that one long time. Yeah, talk talk to us about Miss J. Jason meant amazing, you know, because again it was through top model that I saw this like black man who was like super effeminate, and I was like, oh, there's something there that's like resonating with me and my experience. Um and so, and the fact that ms J was just like themselves, like it was one of one. You could tell no one

else had that personality. They were like fully in themselves and like knew their power and they knew that when they walked in the room, you were paying attention, right, and like that's what I try to embody today, right, um and so, like Miss J was everything. And to see them having already been like super successful in the industry as some as a model themselves, and then as somebody who was teaching, Naomi teaching, Tira teaching, camor Ley Simmons,

UM and all of the girls of the time. Transition that into this personality media personality moment that he currently has. Amazing. It's so well deserved, deserved, beyond for sure. Did ms stay till the very end? Um, No, miss j Um. I don't want to say they had a falling out, but they weren't asked back. You know, when they were doing the revamping, Um, this is around the red or us um time but like short for it, Um, when they were just like trying to cycle in new talent.

They were doing stupid stuff like this was the British invasion, this was the petite cycle, this was the it was. It was like everybody was sure, everyone was everyone was Christian China, like it was a thing. Um. Like this is before they started doing guys um on the show, UM, which those seasons were interesting. There were three of them, mightfully um three too many three too many um in two guys one not Marco and Keith whatever his name. Um, he's now got his you know penis print all over

the internet. Watch penis print for what you know. He's just like one of those thirst trappers on Instagram like the game. I thought you meant that he got his like penis like molded and sold. He was, listen, you got a diversify your income these days, Well let's get the corporate card out and by what listen? Um. I also had no idea that Raja did all the makeup. Raja was the makeup artist for the first yes, many

seasons it was. Yeah, it was a long time, and she was featured like very often, and I think ru saw didn't Rue or someone from his camp see her on ANTM and was like, you need to be on Drag Race. I think, well, there was an episode where she did drags Dira. Oh my god. Yeah, I forgot about that, and she did look like Tyra. She did well. They were best friends right at a point, um, which is why Roger did Tyra for Drag Race for Snatch Game. Oh and one, I believe I forgot about that. Wow.

Speaking of Tyra, did you watch the Tyra Banks Show, the talk show? Yeah, I mean I saw like the Beyonce interview that she did, which is you know, iconic moment in in in television history. Um, so yeah, I was watching it, but I wasn't like it wasn't like appointment television. It was for me. I there was a semester in college where I made my schedule around the need to be at home and watch Tyra every day. It was it was my roommate, and I would watch

it every afternoon. I was obsessed. What did you love about it? Just that she was like so cuckoo and like wacky and like kind of bad at being a talk show host, but like that's what made her so good at and like I loved the like the like weird nothing episodes even more than the ones where she had really good guests. Like one of my favorite episodes is the one where she has the woman on who

married the Eiffel Tower. Oh my god, truly iconic. Also her interview with Naomi where she's like, she's like, why did you hate me so much? My name was like, I don't even think of you. You know, I caught it. There were great moments on that TV show. Remember the one where she I think she had like was it a cat scan or something on the show to prove

that her breasts were real. There was another one where she was like, you know, kiss my fat ass, or when she um was a homeless person for a dame when she was a fat person, which inspired the challenge that first introduced us to isis on America's Next Top Model? What? Yes, that is the reason why, because iis initial introduction is in the background on the previous season that she was on because they did a homeless fashion shoe and they

had real people experiencing homelessness, which Isis was. At the time, I didn't realize and they kept saying, who's that hero in the background because she's serving I survey And then it became this whole big deal because she was trans and they were like, it was a lot. And then of course get the fag off the tv um. Something that Tyra does so well that flourished in ant him and then you know, transcended in her talk show was her innate ability to uncover what people's greatest fears are

and then use them against them. Yes, you can tell that Tyra either loved fear factor or invented fear factor. Like shout out to the producers. They were working. They were working between like Tarantula us and like suspending these girls at like great heights over like invisible cat looks

and like all this different stuff. But there's the only episode of Tyra that I remember seeing as a kid was an episode where she talks about the greatest fears and she has all these like kind of everyday people come on and say, oh, my greatest fear is so, and so she says, like, let's say, my greatest fear

is cats, and she'd bring out like ten. Yeah. There was this one girl who her greatest fear was like pennies and loose change, and so Tyra put like a Rolex watch at the bottom of like a tub of pennies and she's like, if you want to watch, you have to get it. And this girl had like this long acrylic manicure and she's like just shuffling away pennies with like her nail. Tyra, It's so funny, like her getting cast in life size as this like which I've

never seen Iconic the original and the sequel. Literally, I haven't seen the sequel. But isn't the sequel a Christmas movie? Yes? I thought it was, like I think that the movie

it's like Thanksgiving. It's a Thanksgiving movie. Like casting her as like a deranged and naive plastic doll like typecast Like literally she is like and I'm not even like she's literally like the Barbie of our generation, you know what I mean, Like she she encompassed, she is, she's she is every woman in America's Next Time and now she's, um what is she? She judges she's dancing with Apparently she's not very good. Have you guys watched it? No? No,

but like of course she's not good. She also did America's Got Talent as well, and he wasn't good at that either, Like that's not her thing where because like she's she's got She's got a lot of personality that she does. I'm still waiting for Model land O tell us about the park. It was supposed to be a theme park, right, and because it was based off of a book like any she wrote when she wrote it, allegedly her name's on the cover. Um, but yeah, she has this whole world. She's also has now a isn't

it like an app? Like a game? Oh my god? Is it like Kim Kardashian Hollywood? Yeah, it's like one of those. And it was like a huge deal. I imagine that. Yeah, I'm sure, you know, I'm sure she's got lots of irons in the fire. What do you it's it's it's a lot because she's also got an ice cream store called Smiles Cream, Great Santa Monica, your kid. I'm fairly sure this was a story that I covered on one a day. Tyra banks Is net worth is estimated to be ninety million. It should be I think

that's how I think that's a little high. I don't know. She is a mobile bankable productions are I feel like she also has an expensive lifestyle. I'm sure she does, you know, but still, and she's got that kid. Now she's probably reporting net losses. But my cream, Oh my god, I don't know she got she got? She's always working. Can you smile? I mean, can anyone really smile other than Tyra? I don't think. I mean I feel like I'm actually learning about modeling and how to move my

body by watching the show. Like there's so many things Where'm like, oh, it's like you need all your lettings out, you know, like even when you look it feels uncomfortable, doesn't mean it looks you want the eye to go. I don't want it to be straight lines, you know.

I also felt like Tyro was kind of I feel like Tyra was the only judge that, despite giving also deranged and unfair feedback, gave the most constructive feedback and was often right about like modeling things, where like Janis was just like, you're fat and ugly, and Nigel Barker was like I want to I would, I would to suck the lin from between listen, Okay, I just couldn't get it. Absolutely still today, yesterday, today, tomorrow. No, that's I.

I do not endorse Janice and Nigel do. Both have virtually no constructive criticism, virtually no authority on literally anything, and offer their opinions on every and to me like Nigel is as charmless as like honestly like Jeffrey Bower Chapman and Drag Race Canada like he was just sub I thought he was so horrible on top of being kind of a predator. Would drag Grace even exists without Top Model? I don't think it would literally literally would?

I mean, what is the legacy of Top Model? Top Top Model is the mother of so much of what you see on TV. Right, Like, this was part of an era and it was one of the biggest shows on TV at a time, right, which is a lot to say when you're competing with the American Idols, which was also huge right in those first six or those years.

Um and so now I think the love is blinds of the world can look and take something from took something from a top model, your project Runways, your next in fashions, your like all of these like reality competition shows, particularly the ones that have people like living together as well in that aspect you're making the bands. All of that goes back to bank. That is one thing I've always wished was part of Drag Race was them living together.

And I do kind of wish I would love that would see well, I would love to see more drag content that's not um that is yeah, that is not a competition, Like it would be so fun to have like a drag queen. Real World. Yeah, that show is going to be on TV for a long time. They're going to have to figure out a way to reinvent it. Maybe that's the next iteration is like the coel you

get to see the queen's living to the unreal world. Yeah, the realness world, the realness world watching America's Next Top Model, even though you know the ja'son Tyra are so like untouchable in terms of like a judges panel has actually made me appreciate like Ru and Michelle and Ross and Carson like a lot more because I think that there, I think that what they just to like compare a little bit, like I do think that, Like I mean, obviously what they do is so singular and amazing, but

there is like a genuine interest in like the drag Queen's exceeding. You know that each of the judges like kind of are invested in and like want them to be better where America's next time model just because I mean I don't necessarily blame them entirely, like that's the state of reality TV at the time, but like they more so reveled off of kind of really distorted ideas about the modeling industry and like exaggerated and provoked these girls by kind of using these like crazy like things

that they were like, well this happened to me. I had to post with the live crocodile, So now you know what I mean, Like, um like it I think that, I mean, I know, I'm being so serious about the show and it was like widely entertaining, but like it's so funny like that there's such a it is there's such an unprecedented like level of like gaslighting and maneuvering that production and the judges had to do in order to convince all these girls that this was completely normal,

like and that they actually get something out of it that they would get because like, I don't think the prize that was offered in Top Model was like all

that amazing, like guess getting a contract. It seemed amazing, But I think what they were promising them more than anything, And I think what sets it apart, what sets it apart from a lot of other reality competitions is they were offering the models and even the ones who didn't win, careers, Whereas a lot of these other reality TV shows it was either it was like you won and that was kind of it, like you got whatever the prize was and that was it. With Top Model, it was we're

giving you and like the tools to be a working model. Yeah, And that's another thing, right, like that Top Model came at a time where they like the tangible things that you could get from it, Like the fashion industry at that time was this like exclusive type place. You didn't know how to get your your foot in the door. If you're in Idaho, and you want a model, right.

Top Model kind of was that entry way for a lot of girls to get that first contract or even just to get some experience taking some photos, like legitimately right, because a lot of the girls didn't have any experience. And then when drag Race came around, and now the current iteration of drag Race, like there's there's such like a um a marketing commodities world, merchandizing world around the show where like I feel like you you have to be a little bit more aware of of shit, right

because your career. You can be on one episode of Drag Race and go on to have a really amazing career. You couldn't be on one episode of Top Model and go on to have a great career. And you can't come in. You can't come into drag Race though um unfinished. You can't come in without knowing what you're doing. And on Top Model you could. You people would come in and they would teach you how to walk, they would give you a makeover, they would teach you how to pose.

Like you know, there was as abusive I think as it was definitely like it was like a modeling boot camp. Yeah, it was, And that was like her imagination of the show like Tyro's and I totally agree with you. I think that you know, as much as we talk about it now and the way that we cancel Tyra like every five years or whatever, it's like she really did want Like I think Tyra thought she was helping nine

times out of tack. Absolutely she was helping in a really weird, problematic way, Like she was replicating a lot of the harm, right that she experienced in the form of these challenges. But like that was the industry, right, It was that traumatic. It was that traumatic, and so like it's a weird way to say, but like I think she thought that she was doing them a favor. And I think a lot of the girls would say, you know what it was like today post trauma, it

was a ship show. But like I learned some things that I needed to learn in that that shitty situation that like helped me navigate this industry in the ways that like we're better, right, Like it's really weird and complex and complicated, um, but like I think that's how we should like look at the show and look at

Tyra in the first place. Is like it's complicated totally, and to what you said earlier about how like Tyra had bosses too, Like she's gone on record to talk about how she had to fight to get plus size models or fight to get you know, certain kinds of representation on the show against the will of like her executives.

And I think that, you know, it's I think if we were to make if we were to you know, reboot the show today, which like you know, they want to reboot everything, so it might not be that far. They've rebooted this twice already, Yes, exactly exactly. It's like who will the judge be next time? Who will the host be naming? But they would never tire would never think I think it's time for Tira to come back.

I would do well, you know, she came back for like the last two seasons or something like that after Rita Aura. But it was they were trying to make it too modern to like it was. It wasn't working. Yeah, yeah, I don't want to woke. It was really weird because it it became very social media heavy, so it was like you had to take your your selfees was like part of it. It was really Brian Boy was like the social media like representative or whatever. It was really

interesting times to say that. Well, I guess now, like what would even how would it even work? Because modeling has changed so much. You know, I'm not here for like the woke of occasion of like most reboots, Like we've talked about this before, especially with like the end just like that of it all and things like that. But I do think that, you know, if the former iteration of like a and yeah kind of like profits off of and like corrupts, what are the worst parts

of the modeling industry? I do think that there's a seamless way to instead like have it be like to highlight the industry's shortcomings and to like tell these girls that it's like something that you have to go through, but it's still it's like normal, Like there there was there was a way that Tyra could have affected change or could affect change, as opposed to just upholding existing terrible things about the industry, you know what I mean. Um,

but I mean the industry still is that terrible. I mean the guy because I think I think that she thought and she probably would still feel like she did effect change, right, because like it was it was hard and it was traumatic, and you know, like but I remember the bullshit that they put Takara through in season three as like the first real big girl right on

the show. And then to see was I think with Psycho ten was Whitney who was the first and only plus size winner of Drag Race, Drag Race of Top Model, which I mean one and the same, Yeah, I here you go. Um. But like there there were instances where different types of beauties were featured on the show. Um, and some of them when we look at them today were like eel, that's disgusting. Like with Isis, for example,

all of the ship around her is like um. But you know, as times have changed, the show try to change. I don't think we'll ever get another Top Model. I don't think we need that. I don't I don't want that. Um. But for what it was and what it did, I do think that it you know, it made some shifts, it did something. It was and very bad, very bad. UM. So Car is also a really good example of like how the women who really did win the show were the ones that could try and come about out of

it as untraumatized as possible. And to Car was one of those women that just like refused to be gas like I think Brando was one of I think Jade was kind of like that, like like people. I think actually Tiffany was one of those girls too, because like there's this there's a challenge during her season where they're doing they have to do this shoot as like a tennis player, and they tell the photographer to be as mean to the girls as possible to kind of show

them that they're always going to deal with assholes. And Tiffany was the only one that was like, you're being an asshole, you know. Like so like the girls that could say like, wait, this isn't reality, like there were there were girls who said I'm doing this on my turn. Yeah, and Danielle to like she refused to close her gap at first. She did, she didn't, you know she I think that was like kind of effective, but she did. She did close eventually. Yeah, but listen, I'm in this competition.

It's free dental. Its free dental, you know, a free dental, and like a like a free like Sally Hershberger haircut girl I would do and I would have a spider on my face for a sallyber cut. Oh yeah, you could. You could put me in a grave and dress me up a clown and I would go in a grave just with not even for that's actually one of my top like sexual fantasies is to have sex in an

open grave. That that track, So like okay, now, I think I think the thing that's maybe freshest on Virgin's minds are people that consume antim is like every like I feel like you are probably have bared witness to every iteration of it. But like every five years we canceled Tyra, but like this most recent cancelation was like very loud and happened to think during the pandemic because I think the show was on Hulu or something, and Tyra tweeted an apology that was not very effective. She said,

we messed up. Yeah, yeah, um. But then she I was actually like shockingly moved by a YouTube apology that she did around the same time. She was on some YouTube show, and of course they brought up all the controversy that was kind of circulating on social at this time about things that have happened that were egregiously you know, racist or fat phobic or transphobic or whatever. All of the Albeism, all of them, all of the Obius and Islam and she said, Um, you know, I have apologized

for this before. I feel like I've apologized for it in my book, and I've apologized for on my TV show, and I will continue to apologize for it every time it comes up. She's like, it is my job too apologize over and over because that is like what I can do. That's like what I should do as someone who's being held account And I'd never heard even though ty relax a lot of nuance and a lot of different I was actually so shook because I'd never heard

an apology. I've never heard a celebrity be that. Um, I don't want to, you know, say that there's humility to Tyrade. I don't know exactly what she didn't. She didn't, you know, bust out the notes up. And she's not shirking responsibility, right, because that's what we often see, right. It often is somebody being like, oh I was just I was just a face for it, or you know, the the network or or what or that was just our that's how we did things at the time. It

is what it is type of energy. She's like taking a little bit of response. She was like, yeah, we did some fun the ship. Yeah we compatized them girl up because I think if she did any of the other stuff, she would also be shirking like the power of it being her show, because like I think both are true, Like, yes, they did funked up stuff under her guidance, but also she created tell show that changed culture. She created she also, I don't know if a lot

of people know this. Kenya Barris was also on the ground root ground floor of America's Next top Mottel and he would go on to do all of his foolishness that he's doing right now so impact Tyra b look us. Yeah, I don't know Tyris, Like I still love Tyras so much. Of course, I feel like the course any like anytime someone calls for mother, I never had ever would want.

And she kind of played that part like she really she would sit down with the girls and be like, tell me about your when she stood up and barked like a dog kid. Next week, we will be back with a very special episode. We're gonna been up the confessional and listen to and react to some of the suggestions us been making. Very exciting um reminder that you can call in and tell us what you want us

to talk about. Next, whether that's you know, a cultural phenomenon, a movie, a book, um, you know, whatever it is. You can call at three to three pennants. That's three to three seven three six two six two three. Leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Um. You can also let us know they're what you want us to talk about, or you can just tell us what you think of the show. If you think we're hot, I'm your co host, Rose damn You. You can find me um on social

media at Rose damn You and I'm friend. You can find me at France Wish go anywhere you want. Like a Virgin is an I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Figgy Intern with support from Lizzie Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and Mickey You tour until next time. See you, Letter Virgins. You want to be on top? No we don't. No no, no, I really don't. Don't make me do it. You want to be on the bottom, yes, no, no, no, no no