Smelling Good is Being Memorable

we're gonna be talking about beauty. I think you and I are two people who have very different but um important relationships with beauty, certainly with beauty products, Taurus placements, yes, tourist placements. Um. Can you like track in your life when beauty was something that you started really caring about? And I don't mean kind of in the way of just, um, you know, uh, like caring about what you looked like.

But I think, um, I guess the idea of beauty that I have always been interested in is like when you start investing in what you look like. And I don't mean just financially, although obviously that's a huge part of beauty, but I think like investing your time and energy, um into what you look like. That's a really good question. And I don't know if I have a crystal clear answer, but I maybe maybe not an answer to your question, but maybe an early something that is something that I

actually have on a home video somewhere is me. I'm like maybe like two years old or one or two, and my parents are throwing a birthday party for me, and someone as a joke like put cake on my face, you know, because it's like your kid and cake on your face or whatever, and I remember being like, what the fuck did you just and like wiping it off my face like this, like being like what the fuck did you just do to me? And being like I

will not not be beautiful. You know. What I mean you should have done is you should have rubbed it into your face out fire. Um. I feel like, can we do one together on three one two three? Hello? I think we just got up. I think we got some peaks there. Um my, um my point. My point being, I have kind of always been concerned with aesthetics and the aesthetic value of myself and things around me, which is not something I'm necessarily proud of, but just drives

my life regardless. And um yeah, I think that beauty is something that I'm constantly striving for, if not accomplishing, which I accomplish it often. Um, what about you, Rose, Like, do you think you have like a formative devotion to beauty or like an early memory of beauty? Yeah, my mama told me when I was young in the glass of hard Boudoir. I think, like, of course, I've always you know, had feelings and thoughts and opinions about um, my body and like the way I was viewed whatever.

But I also think it's honest to say that for most of my life, beauty and maybe like the truest sense of the word, was not something that I really thought about until I was presenting as female. Like I think a mob people generally not to make a mass generalization, but it's just something we're taught to care less about or taught or socialized to think that it is. It's not something that's for us. Beauty is something that is for women, and and to be concerned with beauty is

not for us. We are cultured to just I don't know, the little balls of mud, but just like don't care about like our fucking hygiene or like how we present to the world, and like, I don't know, thinking back to our devil Wares product episode and other things we talked about this podcast, Like I think as superficial and as capitalistic and as you know, as much of an artifice that like beauty and aesthetics can be, especially when you're trying to make it in an industry. It is

also your armor. It is the thing that you wear out into the world to not only show an express to people who you are, but also to safeguard you, you know, like as marginalized people. Sometimes beauty is one of the few tools we have to navigating or getting up in certain spaces. But also on the flip side, beauty is pain. Beauty is pain, and I have I have gone through a lot of pain for beauty. Oh

my god, that reminds me of laser tomorrow. I need to I need to schedule this was my this was my laser that I scheduled to I'm going to like go into full like Greta Garbo hermit mode for like a week and a half after and just like not see anyone. I'm going to get laser and I'm going to let myself become the Wolfman for a little bit on that. Yeah, because I think my problem is that, like with lasers, that I always like shaved too quickly after it, and I just need to let it all

fall out. Always that what you're supposed to do. Yeah, according to my laser tech, to shave, and so for that it come out naturally. So for the virgins, I'm at the beginning of my laser journey getting rid of my chin strap, and I'll also maybe shaving off my mustache. I don't know if I'll be lazering my mustache area. I mean, I don't really utache, baby get ready. I mean I'm excited, Yeah, I mean I'm not that excited.

I'm well, honestly, this is great for today's topic. I've had a bit of an existential crisis around shaving my mustache because I have so many different contrasting opinions within my own head about why I have it and why I shouldn't. And um, I often think about what I do to my own image to appear hot to the world, and specifically to appear hot to men, and I do think that growing a mustache was something I did specifically to find and frame my face in a way that

made me like my face more. Because the way dysphoria works is just like you just never like your face like ever, it doesn't matter how many procedures you get, like how much like surgery you get, how many ways

you manipulate what you do. It's just like so hard to love your face and so you know, trying to find ways to change it was like my first grasp at figuring out like what I am and what I want um and now years and years and years later after having a mustician, it being kind of a part of my for lack of a better word, brand or public image, it feels like everyone loves it. Even if people don't love it. It's like shaving it. People would

be like, oh my god, you shave your mustache. That's crazy, and it's like, I don't want any of that, Like it actually shouldn't be that deep, and I'm sure Like it's also you're anticipating, just because of who you are, the the questions that might come with it of people being like, oh, what does it mean? What's going on with your gender? Like you know, like it's very loaded to change thing thought fundamental about yourself, but like the

thing is, it's not fundamental. It's it's just hair exactly. It's just told us hair is everything. Hair is everything. I wish it wasn't, but hair is it really is. But like I feel like I've found like my actual hair hair, Like I've really found a journey where I do love my face more because of how my hair frames my face. And so your hair looks great, by the way, thank you. And and honestly, I mean yours

always looks great. I don't have to compliment you back, no, I mean whatever, whatever, whatever, um, but I just want

to say, like, you know, people can speculate. Obviously, it is a gender thing, like obviously, like I want to shave off my mustache because like I'm a she, they and I want to give a little more she, you know, like and and I feel at odds with that because I shouldn't have to be hairless in order to belong to a certain echelon of transness, in order to belong to the dolls, in order to belong to you know, all the things that But that is the thing about

like this concept of trans beauty and like, um, because you know, I know so many six women, queer women who have tons of body hair and for them, and I certainly have seen women where I think I find their body hair super feminine and feminizing. I actually was thinking about this recently because um, I was. I was on a uh Google image spiral of looking at Julia Roberts and the nineties and she very good spiral to Vien.

She very iconically at the premier to notting Hill had really visible um underarm hair and it was such a huge tabloid thing at the time. And I can look at that and be like, oh, that's so cool and like sexy on her. But I do not feel that way about myself. Even though like I don't really shape my under arms, I still think that I should because if I don't, then like it's super masculine, right, Yeah,

it's just so weird. How well, first of all, like hair removal in general, like we could give a whole you know, presentation on it, but it it has I have the deck ready to go girl like. And but like in a history of hair removal, is is all colonization. It's it's a hundred percent about like colonized ideas of beauty and and misogynistic ideas of beauty to be honest, um, but like back to like what you were just talking about, it's like there, I mean, first, don't get it twisted.

Body modification is awesome, like amazing, Yes, Tenata ten. I'm so excited for like the what's next for me just to the small amount of like just in what kind of beauty hacks I've kind of beauty hacks, gender hacks I've gotten into since I you know, gotten on this journey. But like, there's just a lot of people, and I will say this is often an intracommunal conversation where other trans people don't think you're trans unless you shave, unless

you're quote unquote hairless and tear. You know what I mean. Well, it's so it's so funny that a discussion of beauty with us immediately turns into a discussion of gender. And I do think that's true of most queer and trans people I know, is those two things are inextricably linked, even people I know who like don't fall anywhere in the trans spectrum, like you know, like so many CIS gay men I know, like, to them, beauty is being

super masculine or like whatever version of that means to them. Um, beauty is unfortunately intrinsically wrapped up in gender and vice versa. Um, although I guess like recently, but I mean this is still like proving my point, you know, recently, in the past like a year or so, I've felt a little less. I felt less need to be so strict about like presenting super femin that's like gone on and off, And

have sometimes found like a lot of beauty in androgyny. Um. And that's also something I'm usually like really attracted to in people. Um. But like, I mean, that's still inherently gendered, because like androgyny is still I mean, even though like the idea of androgyny is genderless, like I still think

it's so wrapped up in gender. Yeah. And that's the other thing is like, at least with me, it's like I am trying to find comfort in androgyny, and I'm trying to find the balance of all different components of what makes me mask and what makes me fem or whatever. And I find that like when I try too hard to push into the doll territory where I'm like I really want to be hairless and TERROR really want to be just like a woman today or whatever. I sometimes I feel like it makes me hate my beauty more

because I'm not achieving something that I'm trying at. It's a losing game, yeah, as opposed to actually loving what comes naturally to me, which is to be both and to be a mishmash, and and that like in that there's androgyny, and in that there's faggotry, and that I love those things, and that is like where my beauty goals are. It's an ongoing conversation because just people don't understand that trans people have existed before hair removal and

before gender affirming surgeries and before estra diial. You know, it's like it's insane that that has to even be clarified. But I think it's because there really aren't that many types of trans people that people turn to on the representational level. I feel like it's like on the ski if you look at the scale of transnits, it's like, on this end of the scale it's Elliott Page, and on this end of the scale it's Laverne Cox, and

right in the middle it's a located men on. And you're either one of these three or you're not trans, you know what I mean, and like, or we have no idea what to do with you. And so when the needle is like a little bit to the left or a little bit to the right, which is kind of where my gender feels, a lot of the time people are on edge because this is a conversation about it. But but it's about presentation ultimately, Like people are on edge because they're like, well, what are you? You know

what I mean? Like people want to extricate and make meaning of your beauty and your presentation and figure out what you are as opposed to just finding solace and in what you remain to be, you know what I mean? Yeah, And I think this is why I have tried as much as possible to untangle beauty from gender presentation and find things about myself that I that are beautiful. Um, no matter how I'm presenting or like how fhem or

androgynous or even mask I like feel on any given day. Um, And like I think I've been somewhat successful and that and like I do think you know, Like as I said, I think when we talk about beauty, like it's this concept of investing in your body and the way you present and so I try to focus on things that like, like I really care about my skin and you know skin, I think, like, of course, again it's like bodies are gendered,

like that's the way the world works. But I can feel really good about my skin and like not really worry about you know, if it's like if my skin is like fish or whatever. Yes, exactly. And that's the thing though, is like they always say beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but it's actually beauty is about selfhood and about how you carry what you're working with and how you sell it and what makes you

feel confident. And I think that beauty as a personal practice starts with figuring out just that, like what is the thing that you know how to that you like to manipulate, that you enjoy doing so that does that make you feel you know, pressurized, competitive or over evaluated? And if if your thing is like I'm gonna get my skin right, or if another person is like I'm going to dye my hair this way, or another person's like I'm gonna wear a luke every single day, even

to just a coffee shop. You know, like everyone evaluates their aesthetic. Everyone find you're finding joy in your aesthetic. It's just like a simple pleasure of life. Yeah, And I and like so much of beauty is just for you. Like yesterday I was like, didn't leave my apartment yesterday, but I had just got I had just gotten this new highlighter and I like put it on in the morning just because I wanted my cheeks to be shiny all day, like just for me. And that's fine, you

know that. I think like we're in this place where like as a culture, we've become so invested in the idea of self care and that's like intrinsically linked to beauty, like and I guess it's it's like a problematic that the idea that the best way to care for yourself is like to do something that um cost money, that that a cost money and also makes you more desirable, and you know, like that the only end goal of self care is to look more beautiful, um, which I

think like is and isn't true. But you know, like I don't necessarily always like get a facial, Like you know, I got a facial two weeks ago, and it wasn't necessarily so like I looked better. It was because I

wanted to feel better. I wanted to like spend an hour where I couldn't look at my phone and someone was just like massaging lotions and potions into my face and that was really nice and like, yeah, byproduct of that is like my skin looked better, and like, you know, that's nice, but it was more about, you know, what it did for me and how it made me feel exactly and I and I and that's the thing, is like finding your beauty practice is about, you know, extricating

it from funck ability or extricating it from like, you know, exclusivity or belonging to a certain echelon of people, or like money or material or any of those things. It's about like selfhood and understanding. I don't know what makes you happy and when it comes to aesthetics, and I don't know. I think a lot about Andre Leon Tally and like how unlike his ability to just identify beauty um, which was basically the body of his work, Like he was just such a true genius, but how he never

saw beauty and fashion to be about labels. He knew it to be about style and about how you carried it. And and I think that that was something that drew everyone to him because he knew how to do it. And he himself would constantly say that he's not beautiful, Like he would always make self deprecating jokes about how they don't they don't keep me here from my looks,

they keep me here from my brains or whatever. But that's just that is that someone can live a life that is in and surrounded by and about beauty and it has nothing to do with your fuck ability or your class or your cloud. You know. Yeah, do you have a beauty hack that you want to share with the version? I have one? I feel, Yeah, you go first? Will you go first? Okay? So something I've been doing recently that I think actually when when we were in

New York, I told you about this. Um, one of my favorite things to do now, like on days when I don't wear makeup because I don't I don't wear makeup that often. I still like to look a little like lit and dewey. And so one of my favorite tricks is using just like petroleum jelly or like vasiline or whatever, and I just put it on like the high points of my cheek, on my lids, like under my brow and then you know, obviously on my lips because it's like the best lip bomb is just like

vasoline or aquapher or whatever. That is a good hack. I love a kind of bomb chapstick something on the on the high points, and I love a multi purpose product that is just something that you can like get at any like literally anywhere. You can get like you know, vasoline or petroleum jelly, literally anywhere, and it's you know, cheap um, and everyone everyone wants to look dewey these days. Everyone wants to look glistening and moist and like like

a glazed donut. That's that's so much the vibe where you know, a couple of years ago, it was all out looking like Matt and snatched and like, I love looking like a glaze donut. Um, I honestly on your glaze vibe. The first thing that came to mind was body oil. Um, I mean this. I think this is true for everybody, but definitely true for like melonated skin like you like I I love the vacation body oil I think has the best smell and the best shine. The glass A body oil is also kind of fine.

I think their products disappear too easily. But you know, if you get yourself a cute little body oil, the experience of putting it on is very luxurious and to that extra couple of minutes to just smother yourself with lotions and people are always like, oh you look so you're like glowing, you know. Um, so I love that. I also will say, and this is like, I think this is just a shout out to any beauty virgins because it's so one a one to anybody who does

make up. But like, just curl your lashes. Curl your daily lashes. That's another thing, like in addition to like just like some vassoline or whatever. Like, even if you're doing literally nothing else, just curling your lashes makes such a difference. It makes you look more alert. It's like takes one second. It's it's such a huge difference. It's something that I forget to do a lot. And I also like I don't even when I have like a lot of makeup on, which is still not a lot

of makeup. But for me is I hardly ever wear a mascara because I just don't like it. Like I have kind of watery eyes, so it always ends up smearing um, even if I use waterproof. And like also I don't like wearing waterproof mascara. So just curling my lashes like makes such a huge difference. Yeah, especially yeah, I mean, and I already have just beautiful lashes in general,

so it really makes a huge difference. Are you going to get lash extensions at some point I was, I was, but Ash kind of convinced me not too because her last experience with lash extensions was not so great. But like I I'm still thinking about it. I kind of do want lash extensions, It's just they don't last very long. Yeah. I also, my lashes are naturally kind of long, but they're like long and straight, so they almost like drooped down a little bit. So length is never what I'm

looking for. It's always curl and lift. Yeah. I mean, I just feel like people everyone should have a good no makeup makeup routine, like everybody of any gender, like you can if. I mean for me, it's like an oar skin sealer. Okay, you know at the at the points that you want it. However you want to highlight your face, curl your lashes, get a little dewey brow gel. You've turned me onto brow gel is important for me. It's it's always about lips. To me, lips are beauty. Um.

I have said this before. I think I don't leave my apartment with less than two lip products. Ever, there's always if I have a bag, there's at least two lip products in it. I have a lip bomb in my car. It's just to me. It's like the one thing I never want to do is have my lips look dry if slash when I do shave my mustache, I am going to get really on my lip game because there's so much more shaping that I can do um with a liner. But like I UM, I also just like I always want to have like a juicy

lip when I leave. I always want to have like

a little bit of blush. I don't always wear a highlighter anymore, but like what I do actually love even if I'm just going out to even if I'm doing something super duper casual, I will say the one thing that I might do if I don't want to put on makeup is I'll take like a brown eyeliner and I'll like put a little edge at the corner of my eye, like almost like a cat I and then maybe smudge it up top a little bit to create this kind of just just to widen and open up

my eyes a little bit. And I feel like that is like so stupid, It sounds so stupid, and I got it from Silly Kravitz Beauty Secrets video. But like I just I feel so hot when I put it on, and I think that's again It's it's about embodiment and the hack that makes you feel embodied, like do it. One thing that's made me feel very beautiful recently and kind of something that I've really gotten into is perfume and sense. Like I was never a perfume girl. It was always the thing I forgot to do, was like

give myself a little sprits. And now if I'm going to like interact with socially with someone or even just like go to the grocery store, I have to give myself a little sprits of something before I leave the house. My go two cents of the moment are I do really love Glossier you um love, which is so like kind of muskie, a little like peppery um. It's a cult favorite for a reason. Avorite um, I love the UM.

I tried a bunch of different La Labo sense because I know everyone who's like such a fucking boner for La Labo, and none of the like really popular ones really worked for me. But the Bergamot scent, it's so good. It's so like fresh and citrusy and like honestly like almost a little like androgynous or like maybe a little more masculine. It's it's like not like sweet and floral,

but it's so good. Which, by the way, whoever you are in the world, pick the subtle perfume, like, don't pick the crazy like very strong, like multiple sense like like scent, you know what I mean. Like, I feel like we all have very specific pheromonal responses to certain sense. And I know some girls that just like really commit to the nastiest thing. I know I actually got when

I got the Bergama Labo perfume. I also bought the jasmine one, and I bought small packages of each and I had smelled them in the store, but I hadn't smelled them on myself. And then when I make de Garde jasmine on myself, it I thought I was going to vomit. It did not mix well with my body chemistry. And I mean, you know, I returned it, but yeah, it was it was awful. It was disgusting. But um, yeah, I love. I love. I think smelling good is the

height of luxury, like because I always notice it. It's my favorite compliment to give and to get, like if you give someone a hug or an air kiss, And I love to say to someone, I mean, if it's true, Like I love telling someone, oh my god, you smell so good because it is the thing that I noticed

more than anything. And also sent is tied to memory. Yeah, exactly, And I think that if you being memorable, and I like, I think that if you find a signature scent that is very you that no one else has because like don't get the like don't get Santale thirty three, you know what I don't. Yeah, it doesn't. And if it's that's the thing is like if you're just getting what everyone else is getting, like you smell like nobody. But I I love um A Dosan by Diptique. I also

love glosses by dit Um. It's so soft and feminine and beautiful. It's a great white floral um moment. Sometimes I just love like putting coconut oil in my hair and like smelling like that. Or sometimes I love just the smell of you know, um, you know if I like burn some Polo santo and like it's kind of lingering on my clothes. Although that's I also love the Noo Botanics rooted oil that smells like Polo santo. I

love that rooted oil. I love um, just putting on some everyday oil that has a real, beautiful, subtle scent to it. Honestly, really good deodorant sometimes can really do it. Like I have a really great Baxter deodorant that I get compliments on all the time. And I know that a lot of queers don't like wearing deodorant, but like I think, I think you should. I think you should. I think culturally we should all move on to deodorant, even if you even if it's your kink, it's not

everybody's king. I'm there's some there, there are some I get. Some people really like their natural musk, and I like it too, Like I love if I'm hooking up with someone. I love sniffing a pit. I love licking a pit. But sitting next to someone at a restaurant and being able to smell them is not not good. This is kind of a stupid anecdote, But I was once invited.

I had these very weird friends that had this like insane brown Stone in Brooklyn that they would have crazy events at all the time because they were all like mad scientists, like media makers, and they once I was once invited to a Pheromone party. We everyone but hosted by pheromone UM where everyone at the party. It was probably I don't know how many people were there, but like I don't know, maybe like a dozen or two people.

Everyone had to bring an item of clothing, probably like a shirt that they had worn for at least a day or two, and they bring it and they're you know, itemized and made anonymous, and everyone would go around in a circle and smell each other's shirts and try to match with someone based on what pheromones they would respond to and and talk about what they what they smelled

or what they liked about it or whatever. And it was and I didn't I wasn't there, but I had I heard fascinating things because some people would be like some people would smell the shouldn't be like this smells rancid, disgusting, I'm almost going to vomit. And with the same scent, other people would be like this is so hot and like I am immediately turned on, or like I love this scent, or like you know what I mean, like everyone it's it's really about pheromones. And yeah, I don't know,

I'd be curious. Maybe we should have a pheromones party ross Maybe UM no, homo, but fran you are one of the most beautiful people I know, and I want it's just to end on a nice note. And I did want to tell you that Rose, you are one of the most beautiful people I know. Thank you for saying that You're welcome. I felt real when I said it's real when you said it. I'm really bad at sounding sincere. It's because my voice is naturally sarcastic. No,

it's just because I hate myself. That's why. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back soon with you know, our normal episodes. Um, but until then, you know, keep listening, keep tagging us, keep sliding into our d M s at like a virgin. Big thank you to our producer Phoebe and everyone at my heart and see you soon. Here are you soon? Talk to you soon. Bye,