Release Your Job (feat. Nori Reed)

Borders did close. Fran, very happy to see you wearing I think your most expensive and stylish piece of clothing, which is a tied eye shirt with a marijuana leaf on it that I bought you on the first trip we ever talked together to Palm Springs Manories all alone in Yes, I'm really glad you're wearing, you know, an expensive, designer curated piece of clothing. Because today we were talking all about fashion through the lens of iconic two thousand

six film The Devil Worse Product. And here to help us do that is nor Read, incredible comedian and TV writer. We're going to dive in all things fashion, rom com Meryl Streep and Hathaway because this is like a virgin the show we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros damn you and I'm Fran Toronto. Fran. What you don't know is that that sweater is not just blue. It's not turquoise, it's not lapis, it's actually cerulean. Are you wearing the Am I wearing the Tide High Weed

Dollar Bine shirt that you gave me? Yes? I am. Let me tell you so. Drake dropped a surprise album called Honestly never Mind, which is such like a kind of like funck Boy TikTok kind of album title, and it was kind of immediately deemed the Academine album because it just has a kind of trancy house feel. And I would say that the beats there there are more than there is rapping, Like some of the songs have a very minimal amount of wrapping, and it's all just

kind of like dance music. It's good. I'm not gonna lie it's I mean, it's it's some of it as really background music, but it's like it really shook me. Um. It found me at a very specific place during my week where I came home from a function very late at night. I had a photo shoot the next morning, and I just got very very stoned and put on the album because it had just dropped, and I got into the shower and shaved all of my body hair while listening to this Drake album very stoned, and I

was like, what is going on with my life? But it was actually like a very meditative, like beautiful experience, and that the album lend, I think, lent itself to to to that specific scene of of my life. I don't I don't know that I've ever listened to Drake album all the way through, like from from top to bottom. But I am interested in this because I have seen so many people whose music taste I trust talking about it and saying that it's good. So I definitely will

check it out. Did he announced it the same night Beyonce announced? I don't know, actually, and we have to talk about the Beyonce of it all. But real quick, like, I'm not really much of a Drake stand either. I really really loved his album Nothing was the Same. That was like such an era of New York for me. I loved his take Care era. I love nice for what um so you know, I dabble here and there.

I feel like Drake collaborated one time with Jamie XX and take Care like famously from the x X as a very x X song, and this album, honestly, never Mind is influenced from that like a decade ago, you know what I mean? And I really wish that he had just hired Jamie XX or someone like him to make what I think could have been slightly better house music. But what's on this album is good but still like pretty generic. I feel like you would feel the same way.

But I'd be interested to know what you think of it, because to me, it's kind of like a toothless like Jamie XX rip off. But but the album definitely said definitely, I'll definitely give it a listen. I love that you're like rubbing your tip as you talk about the Drake look that this album it's it's giving sexual energy like this album. This album is wearing a leak your sex tape body suit. This album is giving jubiterm peuter jewelry. Only you know, it's Pride month and everyone wants to

be at least a little gay. Absolutely, and this album has Susanne Barsha's phone number on their iPhone success okay not the six US. Oh my god. So I was surprised that the Beyonce announcement did not make more of a cultural impact. Did you feel that way too, Like, obviously everyone was talking about it, but it was not to the same level as I feel like other Beyonce announcements happened, and maybe that's because we are used to her dropping entire albums and so it just becomes this

title wave so quickly, um r I P title. I actually don't know if that still exists, but I'm sure it does unfortunately, but this one, I think maybe because I got a heads up a couple of hours before it was happening that it was happening, and maybe that's why I, like I wasn't on Twitter and like didn't see everyone like saying like, oh my god, Beyonce is coming.

But I do think that, you know, obviously, as we have established many times before, I am y arry much on TikTok, and I do think even though like I'm in my like little algorithm, I think I do see a good cross section of what's happening, and that is what I feel like I'm seeing of like the pulse of pop culture, like what people are talking about, what

people are making tiktoks about, especially younger people. And I just have not seen a lot about Beyonce, even from people on TikTok who are continuously talking about pop culture. So maybe like maybe it's coming, you know, when the album comes, when Renaissance drops, you know, in July. But yeah, I was just surprised. And also I guess, like, you know, the Vogue UK shoot was really good, but did she really like give anything away? I guess maybe that's what

it is. It's like, there's not a lot to work with. That's it. There's a lack of information. There's she's even selling merch that doesn't exist. People are buying merch online that does not exist, has no actual like skew numbers or anything, which only Beyonce could do. I think you're right, there's a lack of information purposefully that kind of creates a lot of allure around it. And we are recording on Monday morning, so tonight a Beyonce song drops and

maybe we'll have eaten our words or something. But I will also say, um Show Kunishi, the designer that made her like kind of armor breastplate for the Vogue shoot, was designing something for me that week for like this party that my friend Cheeky through And you can basically say that I wear the same garment as Beyonce. Wow, you're like Destiny's cousin, do you know the Destiny's cousin Destiny's Freema. Um, do have you heard the tea about

the album? No, what's the t There's some tea that came out in March of this year that Honey de Jon is producing a lot of album that that would be a gag, you know what I mean? And and it makes a lot of sense. Beyonce is always on trend, honey, and like this wave and era of like discoee house music that's in a lot of contemporary like albums right now. If Beyonce did that, it would be incredible. And for those who don't know, the children out there who need

to be educated. Honey Dijon is a legendary New York City DJ. Has some incredible albums of really amazing dance music. Um, she is incredible remixes. She is an icon. Um definitely go check her out a fashion mogul, I mean she is. She is one of the one of the o G New York dolls. I have. I have something that you know has been on my heart. Okay, well let me start with this. I miss pampered hands a lot like I miss our nail salon so much. I mean these

look at so busted. Look at these busted nails. The gents can't see, but I'm holding up a peter see the finger which I don't. I'm literally holding. I'm sorry that was an accident, um, But like I don't think we realize you and I collectively realize how good we have it at Pampered Hands because Dalyn has these girls like trained down, and it doesn't matter which girl you get, they always give you the exact same manicure that is like such a crystal clean cut manicure that lasts for ages.

And I feel like every time I go to any other nail salon, it's just like garbage compared to like what I get at Pampered Hands. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I you know my my struggle with Pampered Hands. As as we've talked about before, I would like a more luxurious experience. And yet when I have sought that out and found it, I have still wound up back at and Bred Hands, And exactly it's it's

that girl. Yeah. For those for those of you that don't know, in l A, this this place like it's a very crowded, like no frills like strip mall, like Vietnamese run like nail salon. All the girls are so so good at what they do, and you walk in

and there's no appointments. Basically it's like walking only and you walk in and they lie to you and they tell you that the weight is like thirty or forty minutes just to like get you to leave because they're always too busy and I only ever wait like five minutes and then they see you and it's like I have actually sometimes waited for a very long time. Wow, really before because I was waiting too long. Daylyn. I think maybe hooks me up sometimes because I'm always like

in there. Because one time I will say she was like, we don't have anybody to do I need specifically needed a gel extension. She's like, we don't have anybody to do that, and I was like, please, Jelyn, I'm in a Russian so sorry, blah blah blah, and then she removed things around and got someone to see me, like in five minutes. I feel like I felt like I was like a celebrity or something. Have you started watching Miss Marvel yet? Yes, it's a perfect show. So it's

so good. I really I really am enjoying it. Um. I think it's so fun. I've watched all the episodes. I'm so proud of Fatty. I love how there are so many different kinds of Pakistani characters and none of them feel like flattened. Like it's there's so many nuanced conversations about being Pakistani like in the show that don't really need to be in the show, you know what I mean, and yet they are and I don't know.

I love the show makes space for that in addition to just being funny, entertaining, delightful, Like the lead is so charismatic, Like what else did you think about it? It's just so fun and such a nice I think departure from a lot of the m c U properties recently, which have been very like heavy. And also I think the steaks have to be really really huge, And I like that this is a much smaller story um the main character, her whole world feels very real. I think

I was talking about this last week. I think it's really interesting to watch a Marvel show that kind of like is self aware about the fandom of itself and kind of incorporates that into the story. And I like that. I like seeing someone who's like a superhero stand gets superpowers like seeing this kid who like has grown up in a world where superheroes are real, like become one and have that person be like Pakistani. Yeah, it's just it's it's really well done so far. I like, and

the crush is so hot. Cam Run the one that now is maybe involved in the Oh my god, Yeah there's this. It's just I'm I'm really excited for the rest of the show. I texted Fatina, It's like, please just give me the rest of the episodes. I need them now. I have really been bad at consuming pop culture recently because I've been working, I've been trying to be more social. Oh well, I did last week watch that there's a new Netflix docuseries about fundamentalist Mormonism and

right how evil it is. And I did watch it in twenty four hours last week, and it was really disturbing. It was interesting because I had just finished watching Under the Banner of Heaven, the Hulu show, which is also like kind of the The thesis of that show is like fundamentalist Mormonism bad maybe, and just putting a light on extremely corrupt elements of the church. Yes, so interesting

to watch both of those things. It's not like they were necessarily in conversation with each other, but like, having watched Under the Banner of Heaven first, I then like watched this thing that gave me some more context for what fundamentalist Mormonism it was actually like, which is cool. I also saw that um Isabel Sandoval, who directed this really great film Lingua Franca, directed one of the episodes of Under the Better of Heaven that is being submitted

for emy consideration, which is pretty cool. And she's a trans filmmaker, so I love that for her. I finished The Staircase, so I have nothing, nothing left on my roster. And the Staircase, let me tell you, I got really boring at the end, but it was worth it so that I could see Parker Posey giving one of the most amazing line readings I've ever seen, where she was like laughs, not fair, laughs, not fair, and the law reflects that she was incredible, which is such an iconic

thing to say. I have been asking if we could do a Josie in the Possycots episode for so long. Parker Posey isn't Josie in the poss Yes, she's Josie. No, she's the Oh I did see after I mentioned it last week, A lot of people have been asking us to do a Star Wars episode, so I really think we do need to do one. And this week is the finale of Obi Wan Kenobi, and last week was so good with Young Anakin Skywalker in a flashback, which was really fulfilling for me personally. I definitely think we

need to do a Star Wars show. I think you need to do some work. Okay, if you give me the prescription, Actually, will you give the Virgins and myself the prescription for a few that we might rewatch in time for our Star Wars episode. I think definitely the prequels because the original films feel like so part of the collective subconscious to me that like you don't need

to rewatch, Yeah, and then the new ones the Force Awakens. Sure, I might actually watch the Last Jedi because I haven't seen it in a while and I do think it's pretty good. Don't watch the Rise of Skywalker, it is huge mega flop, Dudokoka, and then of the TV shows like I will definitely want to talk about Obi Wan Kenobi, and like maybe The Mandalorian a little bit, but like I don't think you need to watch them, and I don't know about that. Maybe watch Spaceballs. Maybe I'll watch

Spaceballs and Preparation SABA because I love Spaceballs. Baseball got Joan Rivers and it is so good. I mean, Joan Rivers is an exception, but like I just don't like like bro comedies like that. I just I don't know. I just I don't know that that's what Spaceballs is. I don't know. Maybe I I haven't seen it since I was a kid, so maybe, honestly, I'll eat my words, But I don't know if I'm gonna watch episode one, Episode one, the Phantom Menace. Don't people say that that's

the worst That's Star Wars movie ever? It is, and I'm currently in the middle of watching it. I watched some of it when I was on vacation last week and then got distracted by something else. And I did a rewatch of the prequels and like the very beginning of Quarantine, and I skipped The Phantom Menace because of that same thing, like I remembered it being bad you have to take breathe jar beings scenes. Maybe, but I

think because of that, I need to watch it. And also i'm you know you and McGregor is so hot in it, So I'm just watching for him really well, and for Darth Maul. I got my work cut out for me. Slash, I probably won't watch that much. You probably will do not I will do so, I will. I will have to do some because I don't remember. For any of the virgins who don't know yet, we are doing a live show on Tuesday, June, New York City. It's going to be so much fun. Tickets are still available,

Please get them and come carry with us. We are going to be doing a live episode. There's going to be shows from some amazing drag queens, comedy set, cute little after party afterwards, our first ever live event. You don't want to miss it. Yes, And it must be said, this isn't us like a podcast episode taping, Okay, Like I feel like podcast tapings get a bad rap for a good reason because they're kind of boring sometimes and

ours is not boring. And please get your ticket now instead of waiting till you get to the door because they're going to be more expensive at the door. Get your tickets now. We would hate to have to turn you away at the door, would hate And Fran and I will be standing there booing and hissing at you

for not getting how dare you shame? There's actually someone who wears the Newsy cap who works at the drive through Starbucks that I go to, and you're here and and she well, I guess I don't want to assume her gender. They always say, UM, have a good day, friend, and the friend feels very gendered that think, yeah, oh yeah,

there's words like that. There's like friend buddy. Buddy does feel like something that one of the like older men I picked up in a Border's would call me when I was running late for a musical theater where, Oh my god, I do think this is kind of a perfect segue, though, because it is because the place where I first bought the novel The Divil Worce Product was in a Border's bookstore, because it is famously a book that was adapted into a move I forget, I literally forget.

Let me set the scene for the Virgins for anyone who doesn't know so. The Devil wors Product is a two thousand six film that was adapted from a book by Laura Weissberger, and it is very famously about her time as one of Anna Winter's assistance um. She very loosely fictionalized it into the story of, you know, a young girl in New York City who goes to work for this like how Epowered fashion magazine editor in chief um and the trials and tribulations that she goes through.

It was adapted into a film very quickly, starring Anne Hathaway, Meryl Streep, Emily Blunt, Stanley Tucci, that guy from Entourage who every six months Twitter wants to remind us as the actual villain of the film, and also the woman who was in the Rent movie. And I would say, for like, you know, a few years, it was just a normal good movie. It was just like an amazing movie,

and everyone was happy about it. And then the you know, the decade and the half that followed was just everyone meaning this movie to death and claiming as the most important film of the gay community to have ever existed. The thing that I remember the most distinctly about the first time I experienced the movie was, I don't know if you remember this. When the first trailer was released for it, they did something which was very unusual for trailers at the time, which was it wasn't like a

cut together montage. It was the whole scene from the beginning of the film where Andy and Hathaway's character goes to interview at Runway the magazine, And it was like very shocking at the time to get so dropped into the world in the trailer. And I was so excited because I had read the book. I was very like, you know, it was a gay teen, so I was always looking for what the chicklet of the summer was.

It wasn't The Diaries. Well, Nanny Diaries was very much of the time, but devil Wors product far surpast, and I do think it is one of the rare book to film adaptations where the movie is so much better than the yeah, because in the book it's so obviously on Andy's side and you're really only getting her experience and the um you know, Miranda Priestley played by Meryl Streep in the film is so flat and two dimensional and like it's just the villain. And like in the movie,

obviously it's Meryl Streep, so like she's very humanized. You understand why she's a monster. She's still a monster, but you get why. And I do think it is really her movie. She was nominated for an Oscar for it, so Nori places in time. Do you remember like what you're if not, your reactions when you first watched it, Like how what was your how's your relationship to the film built? Like what what? What? What was your relationship

to it? Well, when I graduated college, I my first uh work was in the fashion industry because that's what

I wanted to do. And so I graduated from college, moved to New York, and then first I interned at Narcissio Rodriguez, who at the time was Michelle Obama, you know in inaugural dress like cut like huge, juge designer, and it was like so toxic and so crazy, and I remember thinking like I'm like Andy, Like it's like, oh my god, I'm like Andy, like because you know, it was like a lot of like yelling at me and like being like cleaned this up and go here,

and like just very stressful, was delivering like garments to celebrities and like I just remember thinking like, Wow, this is my Like like I'm like this is so fabulous And it absolutely wasn't. It was so bad. It was a time where that kind of story I think was very popular and very desired in pop culture, like the peeling back of this super glamorous industry. I definitely think it started with America's Next Top Model obviously, which we

have covered on the podcast before. But you know, we were also used to just seeing this world from afar, and this was one of the first times where someone was like, oh, this is very actually very ugly and very cursed. Um, and I'm going to spill all of the tea all the tea. It is kind of interesting how that movie or things like it, because Ugly Betty

came out the same year. I think, um that, Like I also like watched the this movie and Ugly Bettie and I thought to myself, like, I want to get treated like ship too, Like I there, it's so funny how like culturally there is a kind of like sadistic appeal to going to an institution and just being completely subjugated. Well, it's like it's like, look at this world. It's so ugly and evil and everyone's mean, but like you still

want to be part of it. And there's something really glamorous about that survival in New York specifically, like I just yeah, I don't know, there was it was something that I wanted to be a part of, and I didn't. I in my mind, I was like, well, getting treated like ship, it's just to write of passage like that's

just something that's going to happen to me. I don't know if I don't know if I stand behind what I'm about to say because I just thought about this, But I do feel like Josie and the Pussycats walked so double where it's brought out absolutely that was in percent. You have no idea how many times I have tried to get friend to watch Josie and the pussy It's

it's so fabulous. But I feel like Josie was the first, maybe not the first, but it stands out to me as a film that goes into an industry, this one being the music industry, and it's like very self aware in the way that it's making fun of it, but it's also selling as the walk As the viewer, we're being sold stuff absolutely, even though it's self aware of itself totally. It's not trying to hide anything, but we're

being because Devil is brought it. It's still glamorous and shiny. Yeah, and you also think about all of the industry by in that it has because they were able to pull from real designers and the real fashion people and to

the premier product. Um. So, like it is very interesting that it's supposed to be this like this critique of the industry, and yet the industry is fully behind it because at the end of the day is still an ad for And it like reminds me of that line that Miranda Priestly says at the end, like everyone wants to be us, and like that's it's true. You leave the movie, you leave the movie being like, okay, sure, I'm happy that you know, Andy quit or whatever kind

of going. She gave all the clothes to Emily Blunt, who deserved but in the book she sells all the clothes, which I don't support that stupid. I mean, you would make a lot of money because but like I don't know, I mean, Nori, did you ever work in like media media, Like did you ever write, Like, did you ever like write for publications or working only only freelance? I've written for Vogue, Um yeah, just like but just freelance. Carrie Bradshaw tease Cary Bradshaw here. Yeah, Rose and I are

trying and true recovering media girls. Rose Rose famously was my boss. I was I mean not, you know, not in what we would call traditional media. I think, you know, probably post media, that kind of new media where editorial

people are going over to tech. But you know, fran and I did spend years as um like editorial people, as as editorial people in like real editorial, like writing clickbait, um, you know, and it's so much less glamorous than anyone would ever imagine, because there's nothing glamorous about clickbait and

traffic margins. You know, like we never we never had the experience of or at least I never had the experience of working at like a big company like Conde, and Austin knows if that would have been different, But I still think it's like kind of the same everywhere, and like, especially when you're at a freelancing level, you know, you're just like still off in your own space, like writing.

Like at least my time in you know media was either writing a home and like writing gay clickbait, or being in an office where it was like all fluorescent lighting and no one was getting paid well and people were suing the owners of the company. We didn't work at Coney, but even working at Cone day, like they're only very few number of people at the company have access to the glamour that's in that you know, obviously

culture cyclical. I kind of think that kind that thing might have a resurgence, or at least I feel like print media might come back. No girl, Yeah, no, I've watched so many different print resurgences, and I will tell you it's never coming back. Do you remember the dead Books are garbage, magazine are toilet paper? To remember the pivot to video moment in media where every media company laid off tons of employees and pivoted to video because Google was literally lying about data that it had a

Facebook ads to every single company that I was working on. Yeah, I was. I was reading an article about this because I read an article about Hot Ones, the show where celebrities go on and eat really um, and they were talking about how that was born out of that era and media where everyone wanted to pivot to video, and it's like the only successful thing that ever came out

of it. Yeah. I hate. The worst thing about that is making these like YouTube like idiots, like celebrities like that to me is like that was one of the like the four horsemen of the apocalypse. Charles, I was like once they started to become like invited to the met gal and stuff like that, Yeah, it's just like, oh my god, it's over. I was like, it's over. These are like children who are like so on iconic and just like just young, like it's just their youth.

So that the devil Is product took place in what would it even be? Like I'm not saying who would be in it, but like what would it be? Because that world doesn't exist? So would it be like all these girls working from home? So would they be at a tech company? It could start. What I'm thinking is like Miranda Priestley, they've pivoted to video and she needs

someone who knows that she needs a content creator. And Andy is like that content creator, but was doing like used car videos before, like you know what I mean, Like yeah, she's yeah, and she's doing like thrifts. Yeah, and now she's like she's she's a lesbian. She's a lesbian. She makes she makes Taylor Swift lesbian conspiracy and that's her life and her true passion. She doesn't care about

this fashion stuff. And then they're like, now you have to start making fashion videos and she's surprisingly really good at it. Um and she can fem it up. She fends it up, and it was like, what's happening? And also obviously in this version she she um and Miranda fuck they because Miranda trouble at home or Emily Blunt. Oh yeah, I think that would make more Well, I think she and Emily Blunt like have a friends with benefits situation where Emily Blunt like does secretly love her

but it's still very casual. But then you know, Miranda comes in as the mommy figure um and it's like three ways, you know. Yeah, and then like instead of going to like fashion Week, they're like, Okay, you're going to south By Southwest, We're sending you to Coach, You're going to can Yes exactly. I wanted to ask, Sorry, this is like very much backing up, but what are the words that bait gay people the most for clickbait? Like what what is the biggest bait for that is? Yeah,

that is a really good question. Sex stuff, but not explicit sex stuff, Okay, like you can say, you know, I mean, I'm trying to think of an exactle because because we would we would always think about like what's the perfect headline for like S E O and then also like in the actual U r L, like what

are the words? So I think the so Fran and I used to work at Out magazine and we worked in digital and print as well, But I think some of the most popular stories of all time were like top two hundred gay sex things to try something like that, um, and like eleven twelve steps to like having anal Like, so it's just like a Cosmo. You're telling me that, Like, we haven't evolved past like a cosmo. Yeah. And then and then, of course anything that makes people angry, which

so I had. I had an article that god really infamously went viral and it's probably still going viral right now, and it was dear gay men, stop telling women they can't go to gay bars. So any time any time you say, dear someone, you can't do this thing that you want to do, um is it was horrible. There are still people who like email me about it, slide

into my Linkedins comment tweets. Yeah, because it's the kind of article that gets resurfaced every six to nine months and makes people mad and like obviously they don't read it. They only read the headline, um, and they're like, oh, like we don't want bachelorette parties and gay bars, and like the article was obviously like um, also queer women go to gay bars, so like, don't tell them they can't be there. But you know, I as a former journalist,

I don't stand behind literally anything I wrote. And there are whenever there are hundreds of articles out on the Internet that have my name on it. It's very terror read like there's naked pictures of me on the internet from cruel intentions. And I mean there's also naked pictures of me on the internet, but I feel worse about the clickbait, and I would like it all scrubbed, scrubbed.

I missed the era of writing when everything was paper and we didn't have to worry about the eternal archive that we now have of work that we're no longer proud of. Well, that's why it was. That's why it was nice to work in social media for you know, tech overlords, is that you're nothing has your name on it. It's all just tweets. You don't have to sign them. That's nice, that is nice. One of the best performing

tweets ever. The page that I used to run, that I used to write for was gay people are some of the gayest people you will ever meet, which is so funny, and it's like it has like likes. It's so stupid, it really is, right, that is it. You have to get paid to do dumb What does that even mean? That's that's honestly the problem with the Double

Worst Products. They took themselves way too seriously. Actually, like fashion in general, I'd be curious to hear more about like your where, how you started in fashion, and like what your relationship to it now is, because like that movie, obviously it's an exaggeration, but like fashion really is that horrible? Everyone is that mean, everyone's like a fucking fascist, Like everyone has no allegiance to anything outside of capitalism, and it's like so I don't know, it's and it's like

extremely racist, queer phobic, fat phobic. And they thrive on exclusivity, you know. And it's like like the whole gaslight Gatekeepe, girl Boss, Yes, and the theme at the end to be like everyone wants to be us. Like that is the ethos of Vogue and all the brands trying to be Vogue. Because everyone is trying to be Vogue. It's like you because you don't belong to this thing, we are forever going to make a profit, like I one

of the one of the first. So when I when I was at narciss so like there was one um because I interned there, and there was one intern who was so wealthy and like so rich like some his dad was like some Swiss like banker or something, and like it was it became so real to me that like the way that we like subscribe like like morality to like affluence or like like people who are affluent are like are better or like somehow like just like

better people or just like that's what we do. And like the way that everyone just like loved him and just like we're obsessed with him and like because he was just rich, like truly because he was rich, and like that was one of my first like oh, like okay, this is this is what this is, like this is what's going on. Like and if that sounds so like, I'm not naive, like obviously I always knew that, and but it was still like in my first time, I was like so in my face of like he's not

more talented than I am. He's not, but just because he's like fucking rich, he was the only one of us who actually got hired like to the team, because because he had all these connections and like he could have, he was able to bring so much more than just his like skills at a job because of his connections

and network. And you know what I mean, A lot of people What a lot of people don't get about these industries, like fashion, like media, like entertainment, is the people who succeed are usually the people who have some kind of you know, class privilege that allows them to work for free for long enough to work their way

up the ladder. That's how it works. Even you know, now being in Hollywood in the business like you see that people in you know, like content positions executives are people who started there, you know, their professional careers as interns because for some reason they were able to work for free for like five and then yet they still want to split the lunch bill, you know what I mean, like put it on the corporate card, babe. They still send you the venom requests after and you're like, are

you sure? In Double Works product, when Miranda Preseas coming to the office for the first time and there's a montage of all the employees freaking out I actually I empathize and relate to the most. So there's this very plain Jane looking woman who's wearing sneakers and then she like puts those away and then puts on heels. I actually like really related to her because I was like, you know what, she lives in Jersey, Like she she takes that path every day, she takes the path she

gets in. She has she has like maybe a family maybe, like she's the first person who went to college maybe, and then she she's in there, she has her tennis shoes on and then she puts she puts on the high heels. Like I'm like, that's who I worked with, like all the people at because after Narsis so, I also was at Michael Cores and like for for the for the main line, I'm so sorry for the for the main no diffusion lines, no top floor project run.

Working with Michael, he's actually great, He's wonderful and so basically like all the women I worked with in that for the women's wear aligned, they are from a working class background, like they were like, it's like the people who who are in those businesses and who actually do the work and make it happen are people from like middle and low class backgrounds who had this dream of like working in fashion, but their lives are very normal and like they didn't dress like luxurious or like they

were wearing like very basic clothing, you know what I'm saying. Like like the all these glamorous industries are run by very like non glamorous people. But you have to think about the you know, the iceberg of it all, Like we only see the part that sells us, the thing, the part that makes everyone wants to be us. Um, but you it, there's the bottom of the iceberg is full of just normal people and everyone who is not visible.

Like there's this huge like swell of resentment around all the people that do get to like inherit all the glam and they get all the free gifts and they get in and who do very little of the work, do very little of the work and take all the vacations.

You know what I mean? Um, yeah, it's it's I mean, you and I are no stranger to like being the people that are doing no And that's why you know, like as as a journalist, like when you're working in media, you take as much of the glamour as you can get. You take the press trips and the free pr because you're getting paid nothing, and so you have to like find some way for it to make sense. And also you learn very quickly to look down on the people

who are in the wrong below you. And like that thing you were talking about earlier about like that everything being kind of powered by working class people that have a dream, Like that's why Ugly Betty is so good. Did you ever watch it? Ye oh my god? That I mean Rose and I talked about all the time. We're gonna obviously do a whole episode on it someday

because it's so important to us. But like Betty showing up to that space like as herself from Queens wearing the fucking poncho, probably wearing sneakers like that is like was my dream. And I also, like I remember my commune from Brooklyn to like my published My first publishing job in New York was an hour like and I remember wearing gym shoes to the office and then changing into like my night shoes once I got there. So

I never did that. I wore I either wore sneakers the whole time, or I, like you know, wasn't pay in the whole time I committed to the bit. And this was right when I started wearing exclusively black, which was also very like you know, me trying to be fashion girl like you did. You did have a black era. I had a black era where like I literally only wore black. If you open up my closet was like

a cartoon closet. It's the same as you. I'm color blind, and so it's like like worry about in the morning. It was like, I don't have to mix and match stuff. And also, I mean it's a good way to like invisibilize your outfit so people don't like, you know, judge you for what you're wearing. And also it's easy to

make black clothes like look expensive. It's fashion. There's that whole kind of like myth that you know all the designers like they don't care what they wear and they're just like they have a uniform, they wear the same thing every day, and like, I'm sure that's true of some designers, but I want to be that used to sweet she like I always was obsessed with her and looked up to her because there's nothing more powerful than like an ugly woman who's like who's at the top.

Of her game and who doesn't give a fuck, Like she never has makes She's like bare faced wearing like god knows what, and she has the most. She makes the most fabulous beautiful clothes, Like I like, that's what I aspire to be somebody. It's like I when I go I'm in a writer's room, and like when I go to work, I look like absolute complete ship and it feels like power. I feel powerful because I'm like no, like I'm gonna like I'm here because I'm talented, not

because of what I look like. I saved that for you know what, when I when I need to like look good, I look good, but like if you're not paying me to look good, I'm going to be ugly absolutely, and that is that is what it is. It's like you all, I'm only putting work into my appearance when it's making me money. I'm not doing free. Yeah. I feel like with Grace like that she was never she used to be a model and like she was she was a model and then she was like a car

accident or have you ever seen Grace Coddington in the wild? Yes, I have one twice and they were both you fork experiences. Once was on the subway, was on the A train going downtown, and then the other time was seeing portrait of a lady on fire at Angelica. That's amazing. I'm so glad she's I used to work at a Ghosian gallery in New York. Once I hated the Once I was like, I can't do this anymore. Fashion is horrible,

but I still wanted that toxic experience. I was like, yeah, I was like, I want to do an art gallery. So then I started working at a ghos End and like that was and that was the true buffoonery of at all was working and that was like did you ever watch Gallery Girls? I did, which none of those girls ever you know, they're they're like pariahs. They would

never actually make it. But also that that TV show and I think like that, like art Gallery World does feel very post Devil Worce product because also it wasn't wasn't Goosian kind of part of the Nanny Diaries in some way. I think maybe I think maybe the mom worked there. Um, but Gallery Girls for the Virgin Okay. Gallery Girls was the show on Bravo only lasted for one season and season and it was about a bunch

of girls who worked at different right galleries. It was trying to do for the New York art scene what Devil Worce product did for the fashion scene. And so there were like a couple of different camps. There were the girls who worked at like who were trying to be like Southern best girls. Um. There were the girls who worked at like the downtown art galleries like goes In.

And then there were the Brooklyn girls who had like opened up this space on the Lower East Side that was by my old apartment, and they were like, awful, There's this girl, Shantala, who's like a monster, a monster.

She's either dead or in prisons. And I will say, the reason why that show didn't work is because the art world is shrouded in secrecy, and they don't they'll they'll never like, if you really are in, you are never going to to share what is actually happening, because the art world really is just like money laundering business. It's it's and I've witnessed that. I can't remember if

I signed NDA or not, but I don't care. But like basically, like I would witness things where like you know, you know, Larry would tell Larry goes In is the owner and he he has been accused of like controlling the art market and whatever, and I've witnessed stuff like that where like, you know, there's there was a famous artist that he represented, maybe at the time. I don't know if he still represents this person or not, but um, he was on the phone and he was like he

was like, stop making green, nobody fucking buys green. Start painting red, red, red, red, and then like hung up because yes, and like literally he would tell yes and these painting self and like, to me, the art world was so much more fabulous than the fashion world because they're one of my favorite women I worked for. Her name was Valentina, and she is proud as muse and

so every well one of her muses. And every day she would be head to toe proughtuct fresh off the runway, not in stores, and just like just like so chic and so so hungry. They were all like I mean this this part is not very fabulous, just eating disorder, were like really hard. Like I worked for another I was the assistant of a few women and um, of course they put the little twink. They're like, okay, twink, Like like no one was gay, that everyone was straight.

I was the only that I was like the only gay at my where I was working, and um, they put me with all the like women or whatever. But of course they put me with the women, and like of course, and like there was this one like god like she was so um fragile, like she had just gone brittle, brittle, frag she had just gone. She was going through a divorce. She was like on something. Always daily blowout, blow out, every single every day to lunch

instead of eating, she'd get to blow out. And I would always I'd go to Saint and do you for got to stand in bros The like it's on the upper side. It's like it's like these little sandwiches. They're like very expensive. But like I'd always go and like get her these little sandwiches and like try to get her to eat, and she'd be like, nothing tastes as good as dry bar feet. Yes, but she was so delicate and fragile, and I just wanted to like save

her from herself. Can't But I couldn't. Got the easy culture. That's also obviously a huge part of the divorce. How they're always talking about how Anne Hathaway is fat and calling her the biggest insult is calling her a six six Can you believe? Can you believe she's she's so thin? I think she she at the time, did she gain weight for the role? I think she might have talked about gained I'm doing for the role. And she looked so fucking good. Oh my god, her she I mean,

that was her role. That was Anne Hathaway. That was the beginning. I do think there were a couple of their women who were up for it. Um, but she got it and she looks incredible, acted the ship out of it. Her her bangs are so good. Um. The I mean obviously like it's it's so I am so over it at this point, but the Chanel boots the moment. We have to talk about the montage because and like the fashion look after looking to take over montages, look

fashion montages and movies are incredible. I do think this is one of the best, if not the best, of all time because it's set two Vogue by Madonna, and every time the cars passed, it's a new outfit. I was like, that's that's art. Watching it in cinemas in the theater for the first time, I have never been more gagged. Yes, and I think some of the some of the looks, I actually would say all of the looks.

Hold up. Let's stand the test of time. Um. I when you were talking about Anne Hathaway not being the first pick, I was looking at the alternates, and the first pick was Rachel McAdams for the role of Andy, which would have been crazy, but like it would have made sense because it was pretty much directly post Mean Girls and The Notebook, so I think it would have been. It would have been because Anne Hathaway was not a

star yet, so it was a star making role. Can you imagine Andy's a Would she have died her hair? Would she have been a brunette because Rachel McAdams was a brunette at the time. She Actually I was. I was watching has Benett. I was watching a TikTok about this the other day. Rachel mcgadam's refused to dye her

hair blonde for Mean Girls. She wanted to play Katie originally, and so she had a wig that was worth dollars to play Regina and Lindsay Lohan wanted to play wanted the other people they went out to for Andy, where Kirsten Dunn's Scarlett Johansson Natalie Portman and Kate Hudson. Can you imagine that Natalie Portman and the keep her gardens where she belongs. I do love Natalie, but oh my god, there'd be like a scene where she's like in the Vogue closet, just like just like, just like, just like

scared in the Vote closet. Scarlett Scarlett would have I think would have worked. And Scarlett was in The Nanny Diaries, which is, you know, the sister film of this movie. I don't know if any of the other ones would have would have been as good. It had to be. And because Anne does have that energy of being like a bit of a try hard, try hard that is

the thing that I relate to her so much. I guess she tries so hard in and on an off screen Annie Annie Hathaway, I mean sorry, didn't need to dead name her, right, Did you hear that that she

rebranded to Annie? I mean kind, I mean I think it's I think it's that she in her in her everyday life, most people call her Annie, and so now she's kind of coming out, coming out, and because but she had to basically all of her like Screen Actors Guild or whatever, or her whatever the fucking guild is, Like, she had to register as Anne Hathaway and she did a long time ago, and she says she regrets doing that.

She wished she could have done it as Annie. And also Anne Hathaway was Shakespeare's wife, so she wanted you know, oh I forgot that. She so she's going, She's going by Annie. Now I think it's more like this is that this is me, this is me. But I think she will probably always be billed as Anne halfway because

that is how we know her. Okay. I also like, in terms of villain of the film, one of the points that stand out to me, and this isn't breaking new ground for the people have discussed this a lot, but just like when she she gave like that fabulous like at the time mark Jacob's purse, and then the way that she just like wasn't appreciative way the way she gave them gifts and they were just like so mean.

And then no one was just like because she's working hard. Yeah, No one was just like, yeah, jobs are hard, Like I totally erstand. You're a woman, you're a woman, were king in this industry. I support you. You know. They were all like Oh my god, you're a horrible person for trying to like make money and like, you know,

invest in yourself in your career. Yeah. I get why the boyfriend was mad because she was so juicy and then she got skinny and for her to lose that ass, Like, I get why he's like pissed, he's pissed the ass is gone, he's mad. I do love the scene where he makes them, you know, a grilled cheek, the Yarlsberg

who doesn't want to eat a grilled Yarrolsberg. Fuck right, Honestly, if back on the back on the convent of like, if this were made in instead, like it really would be like her group of friends are not being like you work too harder. Group of friends would be like, there's no ethical consumption under and then be like, don't conflate yourself work. You're a class trader. You're a you're a class trader, and you need to quit your job

and become a freelancer. It's the only different colors like um that montage um where they um where they're like they're like Miranda Priestley's coming or whatever. That is still kind of true to life with Anna, Like you would think that that would be kind of a cartoonish like

representation of how she exists inside the County building. But like, I had a friend that was like at coned, like seeing Anna for like a meeting or whatever, literally like last year, and he was telling me that, like, of the four assistants that he had to coordinate with in order to make this meeting happen, three of which were present at all standing in the room waiting with him. While they were all waiting for Anna, They're all just standing there on their phone. It's just like standing next

to each other silently looking at their phones. And while he was waiting, one of them just says, Anna's walking, And like he's like, uh, are you saying that to me? Are you saying that to just generally like but like her every move that she makes, it's like how a lot of the things are directly lifted from her life, Like her lunch order, which she recently revealed is a steak and a compress a solid. It looks no tomato,

it does look delicious. And in the movie Um and he goes to get her a stake from Smith and Wilensky and I actually when I moved to New York City, which was the fall that this movie had come out. The first place my mom and I went UM. When we landed in New York. The week we were moving me into my dorm, we went to Smith and Wilensky to lunch and I was like, oh my god, I'm living my devil is brout of fantasy. I just I just remembered that at Narcissi. So we were doing UM.

It was during fashion week and we're doing a presentation in studio and we were like, you know, everything was on schedule. We were addressing the models. It was like very very normal, all the Suddens when this is all I forgot all of this when ran in and goes, oh my god, Anna's here because she had arrived two hours early without any did not tell anyone the amount of chaos. Everyone was freaking out. It was like the

worst energy. Everyone was so scared, and we just we just had to dress the models literally like slap makeup on them, and just show Anna because she was there. I am kind of obsessed with the idea that of of the world being on your schedule. Yes, that is iconic. Also famously like doesn't doesn't she like not even have a smartphone. She has a BlackBerry. I think she's but she famously does. I feel like she is always like she always ends meetings. She thinks that every no meeting

should be more than like five to ten minutes. Which did you see? So my friend um Alison has a show New York called I think it's called Oh God, to show about abortion. And Anna Wintour came to it and the person outside taking the ford and then she was like, are you kidding me? And she was like no, and so she had to get her I D out and show the person her ID. She got humbled. Wow, I love actually carries her idea though, yeah, she had it, I mean truly truly, sir. Okay, something we do need

to discuss is the Harry Potter book. Do we really you have to do? There are currently three trans people on this podcast. JK in the Devil's Product, it was the seventh Coming? Was it the seventh book that she was? It was? I think it was the fourth book at the time. Oh, it feels like because I think that's at the time that the book came out, it would have been the fourth one in terms of the publication schedule that maybe most crazed. I feel like the fourth

one was the like it was one of the most fervor. Yes, it was when it became like an avenge that they came out and there was outside the Borders book when there was so much secrecy about it. But like the idea that at that time someone could get an advanced copy of the most secretive book in the world from a woman who we now know is pure evil. Um is ridiculous, But you know, I wanted to be one

of those little twins reading that book. Early. Maybe Andy called j K. She was like, I also hate trans people, and there's a safe space we could talk about it. And then they had a conversation, which like you know what, You're cool girl, and then she just like she gave her that It was like, listen, the first thing we have to get through is trans women are men. Yeah. Yeah, And she was like to advanced copies. Yeah, I'm sending one copies, one for all of the genders that exists.

I think that's what happened. That is exactly what happened. I hope that like some news site who's listening to our podcast takes that as a headline and just runs with it. Breaks do you think j K Rowling has seen the Devil Wors product? Probably yeah, if she, I'm sure she's obsessed with anything she's mentioned. And yeah, she certainly does reply to a lot of tweets. Yeah she

has the time. Um, I have to say, Uh, you were talking earlier about like people that just want to show up and do the job, but like it doesn't matter like how they look. I'm thinking a little bit about Andre Leon Tallyho. Stanley Tu's character was famously based on him, and I feel like, you know, obviously Andre is like very fabulous and like shut up to work looking fami, but he would he said often he was like what I lack in beauty, like a self deprecating

kind of joke. You would say, like what I lack in beauty, I have in brains. And that's like what what makes me necessary to every single you know space I'm in. And I think that's so true, like especially in my experience, like I am the try hard. I like don't have like you know, the fashion chops a lot of the time, and I feel like I'm not cool, you know, but I I do you are cool. I'm like, I'm like, what are you doing? You look literally so

cool that you do well. I mean, I don't know, maybe working in media, I just like um hammered the idea that I'm not cool into my head over and over again. Maybe that's just like part of the conditioning. But regardless, like I do feel like that is I think a lot of people forget about what it really takes to make yourself necessary because obviously, you know, in a superficial industry, you can show up to work looking fab every day and not really do a great job.

Like that is true, like it's not a meritocracy. But if you do prove your worth over and over again like a lot of times, that does make you necessary, unless, of course, you work in digital media, in which case you are disposable. But like print media, it's like you're safe, you know. Ecagozian I started as an intern and they never hire interns, they just use them, and they're all

rich kids. So it's like like the kid of like so and so celebrity would like be an intern for a season or something, and so I went in there being like I want a job. I want a job

from this. I was a waiter the whole time I was interning, like trying to make money, like very come from a like a very working class background, and um, the way that I got a job was I started making the models of gallery spaces to prep for the show, so like whenever the curator wanted to see, like so before they like have the actual show, there's a architectural model and then you print out like smaller sizes of the paintings or the sculptures, and then the curator moves

it around almost like a dollhouse, and then that from that then they make the real show. I started just doing that and it was very easy. It was just like using very basic photoshop skills to like make this, and before long I became the person that someone would call to make one like from London or China or

like wherever whatever. And so by the time they started to actually like need me and they actually couldn't, I was the one who knew how to do these things, even though it was based it was like basic skills. All of you know, our bosses were older people who would not know how to use any of those things. And so by the time I was like I'm leaving because I got offered a job somewhere else, They're like, oh wait a second, Wait a second, don't leave, don't leave,

and then you know hired me on. So it's like it's like literally just because of I was making those like stupid little but you come indispensable. That's what you have to get. It's like it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know, maybe it's not interesting. I just like it. Kids, if you're listening to this, yes, make yourself indispensable your job. I'm sure all of us have done a version of

that at different jobs that we've had. Like you do something that like no one was asking you to do and it proves to be very like either profitable or helpful or whatever, and then they no longer can let go of you. I mean that was very much my experience and media when I was working it out. Um, no one there was doing like junket interviews with celebrities, and like we were always getting those offers because like we were, you know, the like the biggest lgbt Q

plus magazine in the country. Um, and so I just started doing them because no one else was, and like I was really good at them, and like they would go viral and then like it was something that the magazine kind of needed and then I like had the power of this thing that no one had asked me to do, and I was just like, I'm going to do it and be really good at it, and then you're going to realize like it's actually really valuable to you, and then I'm gonna leave and go work. Exactly, I'm

gonna did you leave you high and dry? That is the That is the other thing. Also just about like quitting your job in general. Anybody listening to this podcast, quit your job. I just did it, and it was so and I was on my close friends Instagram story. I posted the photo of Andy throwing her phone as my like, as my like tease to my friends that I quit my job. Truly, Like the artifice of like you needing a nine to five is like just like, don't subscribe to it. Like you can work hard enough

to work for yourself off, it's not worth it. Every job sucks. That's actually every jobs. That is the lesson of the version of the double Wares products that every job sucks. Working for the man sucks. And I it's funny now to see like fashion try to create commentary on things that we talked about in the justice space.

Now like brand, like fashion, brand is trying to be woke, and like I think fashion has like a responsibility to be sustainable, so I'm like not really talking about that, but like, honestly, this like last Balenciaga runway that was like, how did you see this? It was at like NASDAC or whatever it was, Yes, and like the whole line is like a critique on like capitalism or something. If you're like, that's not a quick teak if you're it was so stupid and they should stop trying to do that,

which I say, I was gonna say. Unfortunately, I thought the run I was very cool. I did too when I really want some of the ass I don't want fashion or any brands to like have a critique on capitalism, like like companies do not have a voice in the conversation of like anti capital a critique on being a dumb bitch or if honestly, it'd be like it'd be like a slaughterhouse having a critique on being like everyone should go vegan, like like what wait one second here,

and then they're like grinding a cow. Yeah, it's just not um, it's stupid sometimes, but I just and they just they they famously just did the like dollar dirty, dirty, dirty sneaker. Yes, arms about so it's like, come on, you know what I do do like that that they did, which was also kind of a publicity something like that where the comb shoes were the wait, maybe those weren't Balenciago,

were those more Jella? They were these shoes that looked like they were covered and come like, you know, I would mind, I wouldn't you know what I really wanted. I wanted Alexa Demi's like all the pants that went up to her shoulders look like have you seen that?

Have you seen that? It is really gross the way that once you um have money to spend on nice clothes, even if that's not something that you have traditionally cared about, you you all of a sudden it becomes real important because I have like now gone through this these cycles in my life where you know, like when I was a teenager and I went to college for the first time is out of time when my parents were making a lot of money and I like had all this

designer ship that like I didn't really care about. But it was just like because I'd been reading the Divorce product and like saw the movie and I was like, oh my god, I have to have like a product backpack. And then like I when I was like poor and living in New York and like my parents weren't supporting me anymore, I like sold it all and like didn't care about wearing stuff like that. Now as an adult, like once I started like making real money, I was like, oh,

well now I want nice things again. Yeah. I just um, I just finished I'm finishing my first ever real lucrative job ever. And so I bought. I bought a produ bag and it was like it felt so honestly, it was an incredible experience. I love my bag. I get nothing but compliments. People treat me better, which is insane. When I when I walked out of that shop with the shopping bag, like the huge shopping bag, it was

wrapped up. The instant change of experience that I was having in the world was actually kind of dark and sinister because it made me realize how much of this stuff is just like code. It's like it's literally just like the matrix. Just walk into a prod and ask for an en shopping back. I would have saved so much.

I just got a shopping back because my experiences immediately started changing, even like social interactions where I was um getting into an elevator to get to go back to my car, and in the elevator walked a girl with her own product shopping bag. And I would have never ever spoken to this person ever, but because we both had these shopping bags, we started talking about what did you get? And then also like are you going on

a trip soon? Oh you live here? Oh you're from It opened up this whole and she had like a jody. She had like a gorgeous Botako jody that that's my next that's my next bag. But like, well, just they don't hold a lot. I don't care. It looks good, they're very, they're very and then the zippers horrible. I've heard all I've heard all of these things, but I

totally support this woman. This woman the elevator and like it's just like I would have never And my friend was with me, who was very poor, and she was just like who I made come with me to get the back. Wanted wanted to witness ascension the next d literally come with me, but like literally, like there has to be someone to have witnesses lunch. I bought lunch.

Combating bad shopping habits is like the issue for me now, I feel like the things that I'm always telling myself that my friend and bestowed on me was shop for the collection, not the occasion, because I'm always shopping because i have a party to go to or whatever, and I'm like an event to whatever, and I'm thinking specifically for that party, and then i might wear it once

then like it's unwearable. This is why you have to shop your closet, as I've heard a lot of people talk about on TikTok shop your closet, which is, you know, go into your closet and treat it as like a boutique because you wish because you will find things in there that you never wear. I would never think of, like try putting things together. I have a subscribed to and I think like part of this is like obviously like being a fat person in a world that like

does not value or like you know, center fatness. Yeah, it's like I'm I'm like, oh, i I'm like buying things that I can just like put on my body because I'm not a person who can go into the world and just like find a bunch of things that

will go together in an interesting way. And I'm trying to now look at my closet and be more intentional about like, Okay, I have all these pieces, Like I don't need to just like find one thing that someone sold me that I can throw my body and go out into the world that will like hide my body

or make it look better than it is. Like I have to be an active participant in the way that I present and show up in the world to create being like being bigger bodied or like whatever you wanna call it, like it because I am too like it.

It creates a panic where like if you find something that even if you like like, you have to get it because you're like, I don't know the next time I'm gonna find something that fits me that is this thing or as like yeah, or like buying aspirationally, like oh, this is like a little tight, but like you know, it'll be good when I like lose fifteen pounds or whatever. But I went shopping recently, I like bought a bunch

of stuff online and at Nordstrom. It was delivered in store and I went and like tried it all on to see if I wanted to keep it or return any of it. And there was a dress that I bought, which was like, body con is like not uh something that I usually wear. And I was like, oh, like this doesn't it's not you know, voluminous, it doesn't you know, cover my body in the way that I would normally want a garment too. And I was like, but I'm fat, like nothing that I was going to hide that fact.

So like, why shouldn't I like wear this garment that I really like and think I look good in, um, just because it's not like doing the kind of disguise that I think some perfect piece of clothing is going to do one day, because it doesn't exist. That's so true. I recently performed at the Netflix Comedy Festival and I was on a big show, and so I got a dress for for this show. And I always cover I always if I show leg if anything but like my

like upper body or whatever. But for whatever reason, I was like, you know what, no, And I got this like dress from Eloqui that was like cutouts and like, you know, very short. What I never I looked so hot? People were I forget how like hot it is to have a fat body, like literally like like curves and stuff like that. Literally, like with the body con stuff, I forget that I have these things that I'm like covering or whatever, and people were like, oh my god,

you look so hot. Yeah, because because fashion, I think, like mainstream fashion, and especially now that um, you know, like body inclusivity is becoming something that as we're talking about, like mainstream fashion brands are trying to like wocify themselves by catering to but like they're doing it by just selling a ton of smock dresses and probably still not even like the most inclusive stop at a certain number. It's so expensive, it's never on sale. It's always like

so I can't, yeah, but like I want to. There have been times in my life where I have like really felt really embodied, and part of that has been because of the things that I wear and like, especially as someone who used to like be like I used to be a club kid, I used to be a

sex worker. So I know what it's like to feel like like to have very concrete knowledge that my body is valuable, literally valuable, um, And I like don't want to feel pressured by a world that thinks that shouldn't be to hide it and the people that like are out there shopping and feeling that feeling of like I don't belong, like these clothes aren't made for me, Like this industry doesn't care about me. It's like, yeah, the

industry doesn't. But that's like a product of like the oppression of fashion, Like fashion wants you to feel that way, you know what I mean. And I feel like, honestly, like I only shop women's clothes, so I just have to be read as in the fact that these clothes are like not made or designed for like my body ever, and I feel like a lot of times you just have to you have to, just as you said, do that work of being like I don't care if fashion

doesn't care about me, I care about fashion. There's something so sad about that and something I experienced in my life too. I was recently in a coach commercial, just like randomly because like the I'm friends with the director a commercial. It's like a really it's a Megan the Stallions in it, and I have to it's a mean Girls parody. And it was her idea. She she she loves Regina George. So she was like, she was like, I want to be Regina George in this in this commercial.

So um, I have a very I'm a I have a very large body, and all the clothes they had on set because everyone in the commercials wearing coach, nothing was going to fit me, so they actually had pought like clothes from Target for me to wear. And then I had like a coach like scarf or something, and it was such a bad feeling and like literally the stylists came in and um, I didn't even try to whisper anything. And at that point I was wearing my clothes like I had not yet changed, and the stylist

was like, that's not what she's wearing, is it? And I was like, oh my god. First of all, I can like literally hear you and like what the funk? And that's and then the person who was the wardrobe person was like no, like no, but then like put me in these like Target clothes and like because that

means those people are bad at their job. And then all the other girls, like all the other girls in the commercial who I'm friends with, who were like fit into standard sizes or whatever whatever you wanna call it, like they were wearing like gorgeous like jackets, and even like the makeup artist right like she spent maybe like forty minutes on them. She she spent five minutes on me, and I had to be like, hey, I'd actually love some more makeup and had to fight her to put

makeup on my face because she wouldn't do it. And it's just like stuff like that where it's like being a being a fat person in this industry is just like so hard and so violent. Like it's like, what's harder being fatter trans? Because it's like it's because like in this industry, it's just like they'd rather be trans

than fat. It's it's like like that because jewels, like you know, it's like these skinny little and it's crazy because it's hard to be to be that person and come onto that side and do what anyone else in your position would do, which is say, hey, you need it is actually not my job to worry about any of this. It's your job too, And it's your job to have clothes that fit my body and make me look good and put makeup on my face and make me look pretty so I can do the job that

I'm here being paid to. I don't need to worry about any of this. I am a product and you need to literally you need to work around me. My reasonly I did a I did a tape set recently, um, which was really cool in New York and Um, I got another dress from Eloqui and this one these shorts are I love Eloquis love. It's good. It's like clothes for us and like literally and it had a crinkle. It was made of like almost like a parachute fabric

and I didn't know that. So when I got it and had the crinkle, so like I was like freaking out about it because of sound and like I was texting my friend Um who she has a connections that Eloquy and was like, can someone like just send me something or like I need something now, and she was like and she was like, girl because she she's also a performer. She was like, a girl, you're the product. Let the sound engineers do their job. She goes wear that dress. If you love that dressing, look good in

their dress. The sound engineers will figure it out. And that that was so empowering. I was like, Oh, she was like, you show up, You do what you're supposed to do, which is like do your comedy and then like let them figure figure that. You have to be the Miranda Priestley the world to find your schedule. Love that well, you don't have to be horrible, you don't have to get her late months. But I think there are lessons to be learned from her and the way

that she moves in the world. And I do think the movie ends with Andy realizing that there are some things she got from that experience and that job that she can take with her and some that she can leave behind. You can tell us what you want us to watch or read or talk about next at three to three pennants. That's three to three seven three six, two six two three, and we really do love your recommendation, so keep them coming, keep them coming. You can leave

us a review on Apple Podcast for Spotify. It really helps us a lot. I am your co host, fran Torado. You can find me at France Squishco wherever you want. On social media, I'm Rose Damn You. You can find me at Rose Damn You wherever um you would like. You can subscribe to Like a Version anywhere you listen and Like a Vision is an I Heart Radio production.

Our producer is phoebe Inter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and Nikki eatour until next week, see you later, Virgins, Bye,