Phantom Bukkake (feat. Jes Tom)

you do have a what is it? Petroleum delly lugging, slugging estrogen, lots of sunscreen, and I drink a lot of water and fillers and my beauty secrets, oh you know, just drinking water. Did you know that Sydney Sweeney only drinks water? I don't care she looks like it. But you know what, even if my face was horribly disfigured and was this beautiful, I could wear a mask just like the Phantom of the Opera, my favorite musical and

one of my uh you know, movie musical selections. Um. And I'm so excited because after literal months of trying to convince Brand to do an episode on Phantom of the Opera, I was finally able to bully them into it with the help of our guests. Today Just Tom, who's an incredible comedian, writer and Phantom of the opera stand and Just Tom just wanted to plug that they're doing three nights uh for their hour called Less Lonely.

The poster is iconic like it's giving Phantom. It's giving Phantom um at the Cherry Lane Theater July thirteen through the fifteen, so y'all should get tickets. And it's also being presented by Elliott Page. Hello. They're also doing another show July twenty nine at Dynasty Typewriter, so go see Jeff. Yeah. So, with the help of Jess, we're going to deconstruct you know, the chandelier Christine Raw Joel Schumacher's ten thousand load weekend.

Because this is like a virgin the show we give yesterday's pop culture, today's takes, I'm Rose, damn you, and I'm fran Toronto. Of course more singing. Here we go. How have you been adjusting to post vacation real life again? Let me tell you, Um, I'm really, really, really tired today because I was up until who I am? Well, I can't, I can't, I can't really tell you on the my was it a sex reason? Yeah, it was a sex reason. Okay, so you've been been adjusting back

to Yes, what about you? Your birthday is coming up? Actually, I believe this podcast job. This episode drops on my on your birthday turning forty four. Just kidding, some people would believe that. No, my birthday is on Thursday. Um, I famously I hate my birthday. This year, I have my birthday all scheduled out. I'm doing lots of like self care stuff. Wait, can you list the things that you're doing for your birthday. Yeah, I'm getting a facial

and getting a massage. I'm gonna maybe go shopping and then keeping it very low key. I'm going to the movies maybe with some friends. Like, I'm not doing a dinner because just all my girlies are out of town, including fran and And also I got to have a really lovely birthday moment in Fire Island, so I'm counting that as my true birthday celebration. Oh my god, that's what I wanted. Wow. Okay, that's really good to hear. Um,

And I appreciate. I appreciate how thoughtful that was that you that you planned that's literally the exact reason I wanted to have even just a moment. But like the virgins need to know because okay, say what you wanted about your birthday. You hate it, I get it. But like Roses, the girl who will be like, I hate my birthday, I'm gonna knock myself unconscious, I'm gonna get COVID. I'm gonna be in Budapest for my birthday so I

don't have to speak to anybody. Remember that one, yeah, remember bud birthday of my life exactly, And she'll do it. And then she'll be like, why is no one celebrating my birthday? I'm so lone. I've never been more alone in my entire life, and nobody loves me like that. You are that girl, and you have to strike the balance of not trying too hard, don't make too big of a deal of it, but because she'll resent it, but like make sure that she feels at least a

little bit loved. And then presence. Obviously, our our key presents are very nice. Okay, wait, speaking of aging, are you are you all caught up on what? Just kidding? You're aging backwards? You're basically um Isabella Rossellini and Death of Cooks. Stop it? Um, So, how are you all cut up on Ultimate Girl's Trip? By chance, I'm not fully caught up, but I am further than I was

when we were watching on Fire Island. I really wish you were caught up the Juicy Well wait, what happened in the most recent episode, because maybe I did watch it, I like was only help paying attention while I was watching Brandy and Dorinda get into a really huge beef. I mean, Dorinda is such a fucking flop and it's picking fights with everyone for no reason. She's like so so so destructive, beyond for a reason. Because she did get into that fight with Vicky about Vicky not being vascinated.

That was then and that, and then at the end of the fight was like, oh whatever, like I still love you. And it's like, Dorinda, that's actually the one fighting that you should hold on to. Wait, actually that is so t I didn't even realize that, but it's so true. But she did pick another fight with Vicky about nothing, and there's a point where it's like encroaching, like physical, a physical fight, and Brandy was like, I'm gonna rap, I'm gonna sunk her up, and fay Adre goes,

you can't suck her up. She's a little old lady, like like she she's so old, Like, you can't do that to her, and Brandy goes, Drenda's only five years older than me, and Phedre goes, oh for real, oh for real? Oh my god, okay, untouchable. The m v P. Phedra is so good to me, is incredible television. Everything she says is gold. She looks incredible, every outfit, every wig,

like she's killing it. She needs to be back on on Atlanta or like she needs to spin off or honestly, she can like move to Beverly Hills and be on Beverly Hills or something. Yeah, I just I'm so happy to have her back on TV. To be honest, I feel like Brandy is also doing a great job with this season, but Phaedra is like so far and beyond all the other girls, Like I'm play, I was really excited for Jill Zarin, and I'm just kind of shocked to find that of the housewives unanimously either hate her

or don't know who she is. She's a flop. She's a flop, which I think would be a flop. I don't know, but it was a legend. Yeah, but it was perfectly encapsulated in that moment where she was entered to recreate recreate her Scary Island entrance and everyone was like, crickets, yeah, so good. Even though let's speak clear, Scary Island is the best vacation that has ever happened on any housewives probably probably. And I did scream go to sleep at

France at one point while we were on vacation. Hi, I will say, oh, I think I did while you were in your K hole. I can't talk about the khole. I mean I can only maybe could talk about the khole. Okay, okay, okay with the virgin is the only thing the virgins needs to know. And I don't want to hear any any details of the khole because I blacked out and I just really know. I only want to talk about the circumstances leading up to it because I want to

demonstrate what a friend I am. Okay, Moments after we got off of our podcast recording last week, we decided to do ketamine. I've only ever done bumps of ketamine or the nasal spray that you can buy over the

counter in Mexico. I had never done lines. I had, you know, poured some ketamine out on a cutting board, um grounded up because it was still pretty rocky, and then, as one does, from the little pilot made, I cut three lines for the two of us and our friend Justin, and then scooched the rest that was for future, for future lines to the side. Justin and I each did our lines, and I left one for Fran and told

them to come over and do it. But instead Frand did the rest the rest of the ketamine because it was in a line shape and it was not. It wasn't it was no no no no no no no no no, you will not rewrite history. It was in a line shape. That's not your fault. That's not your fault. I'm still blaming myself because I scooched. I was using a car scoch it over. I'm saying, none of this is all my fault, and none of this is on you. I have to be clear. But I was in a line.

It was, and I think the fact that the fact that I was able to snort it all with a dollar bill is proof that it was in a line shape. Not at all, because immediately after this happened and we realized what happened, I said, I'm not letting my sister do this alone. And I and I took the dollar bill from the hand and snorted everything else that was on that cutting board. You literally said, because I said, I am a good friend, this is my sister. I am not letting her go on this journey alone. You

did like gay drugs suicide. Like you were just like, we're in this together, and but we were not. We were not because you fell out. Apple. I had an amazing afternoon. I was an amazing but then I had a rough night because I took a nap before dinner and when I woke up, I was in a bad way. We we had to eat dinner with sunglasses on. Um we did. We did sunglasses on inside. Okay. So something that put me into an emotional ca hole was the most recent episode of Miss Marvel. Did you did you

watch the Partition episode? My god, fran the way I cried throughout the entire thing. Oh my god, that was the most moved I've ever been by anything Marvel has made. You know. I was talking to our friend law La yesterday about Marvel and the way that I'm in kind of Marvel fatigue because everything is just so the same.

There is this house style of Marvel where it's like action action, action, wink wink wink, joke, joke, joke, and it's just always and some things are more of that, some things are less of that, but everything is that's the baseline. Like I would say, like something like the New Thor movie, which I still haven't seen, like is the most that, something like Multiverse of Madness is the least that, but it's all still has something that does that, and it's making me just really I'm kind of over it.

I think Marvel is low key and its flop era, except except for Miss Miss Marvel, which somehow like is still doing that house style thing, but is telling such an interesting, moving story that truly is deeply investigating the lived experience of someone who is not, you know, a white man in the Marvel universe and like doing it so well, and like this episode particularly it was so moving where Kamala like goes back into the past and you find out she is the person who saved her grandmother.

Like me, I was sobbing, sobbing, was it was so I mean, like the thing that's so if someone told me that Miss Marvel was not created by Marvel, like I would believe it because I actually feel like it doesn't have a lot of like the canned things we see in a Marvel series, and it's reminding me of

one Division and how unrecognizable it's tropes are sometimes. Um and I love that um Kamala is just ordinary, like she's extraordinary in her charisma, but like she is just really like she's not that good at fighting, like she's just trying to figure herself out as a teen, like she's a fan and like I think that's so new and so fresh, and like the thing about I mean, first of all, we have to say our friend Fati Oscar wrote this episode, this Partition episode, and I never

in a million years I thought that Marvel and entity that like Marvel would be center ring a story about partition like that's insane, which is not something that I knew about. I'm so grateful to this piece of media for telling this story that, like I that I in the like American school system was never taught and using it as a way to talk about the identity of this girl and her family, and like gets still about

superpowers and stuff. But it's just like was really beautiful and sad um and touching, and I want to, i mean, wade into a murky critique of like Marvel in general, because like, when I was watching the Partition episode, I was thinking about how Marvel, in the comics and also in the movies and series are like obsessed with Nazis and like and like say and like um Auschwitz and like kind of uh and and that's obviously those are stories that need to be told, but the way that

Marvel tells stories about genocide, it's very flat. It's like Nazis are bad and we are good, and the superheroes are going to kill them and that's the end of like the series. And like, I was so worried that there would be a flattening of something that is so such a rich and important and resonant and painful history that was treated with such care and delicacy, and it was it's such a small story and it's focusing on truly just love and oh my god, I'm getting emotional

just talking about it. The scene at the end, well not the end, but the scene of just Kamala and her mother and her grandmother. After everything has happened, I was so happy that the big fight was not the end of the episode, that like you really understood that the most important thing to come out of that was these three generations of women in this family connecting and that that is ultimately what this show is really about. You know, this is the penultimate episodes. We still have

one more. They should be way episodes, by the way, Like, why are they wondering I'm wondering if it will fall into the same trap that One Division did, where I think the majority of One Division was so great and then the last episode they were forced to menders again. Yeah, they were forced to you know, funnel the show back into the main Marvel thing and have like a big battle and like everything just like became very flattened into the you know what what we keep seeing again and again.

So we'll see what happens in the finale. But I'm grateful for this. It's a it's a beautiful reprieve. Okay, we both finished Stranger things. I think, like, do you want to give just like a quick thoughts on the finale? Um, Well, my my most resonant thought is that I thought it was the series finale, and so towards the end of the last episode, I was like, there's no way they're wrapping this up in the next fifteen minutes, Like what

the fuck is going on? Like the last thirty minutes were very end of the movie, and I thought, honestly lazy writing. I thought that a lot of the wrap the emotional wrap ups were not very compelling. I was extremely bored in the last thirty minutes after the monsters killed or whatever, after Vecna is vanquished, which was anticlimactic by the way, totally. I also don't think it's interesting

that he's the big bad. I thought he should have been, you know, the bad guy of this season, and that there should have been a final final boss for the last season. I like, I think like the whole show coming down to a show off between Eleven and Vechna, and is like, I get what they're going for. It's like kind of interesting, but I actually I'm going back. I actually do think Vecna makes sense as the big bad.

And I also think it's like, yeah, they've destroyed his corporeal form allah Volden more, and so now they have to destroy his like spiritual form or whatever. So here's where theory comes in which I saw on TikTok. Actually I think could really be real, which is that since Max is like soul has been eaten by Vecna and she's just like a comatose vessel, people are positing that Vecna will possess Max in the final season. I mean, I think would be I think it. I think it

makes a lot of sense. It's very like. It makes sense a lot to me with the Duffer brothers, and they really have been hinging so much on the Max Eleven friendship that if in the final season, like Eleven had to face off with the big bad possessing her best friend, that would be really interesting and I think emotionally satisfying. And I think Sadie Sink is a really great actress and she could do really well playing that villain. I don't know. I I loved it. It um just

not the last thirty minutes. It was a fun ride. I had a good time, Okay, Rose. We have to end on the breaking news at the time of this record, which is that Beanie has decided to leave Funny Girl early, following the rumors that Leah Michelle is replacing her. Well, let's be clear the actual breaking news is the confirmation

that Leam Michelle is replacing announcing. Beany announced yesterday Sunday that she was leaving, and then Funny Girl said they would be announcing her replacement the next day, and surprise, surprise, it's Liam Michelle, of course, which is like, I think it's crazy that they replaced Jane Lynch though, could you imagine Leah Michelle and Jane Lynch in Funny World together. Well, Jane Lynch was supposed to be in the show until like September, and I'm sure as soon as they confirmed

Leah James out of here. Um. I did get some secondhand tea about Beanies exit, which is that she has been trying to get out of the show since the

Tony nominations came out and she wasn't nominated. Um, And so that's why this has all been fast tracked, which makes sense, you know, Like, I'm sure it's been extremely overwhelming for her to get all this bad press, to be in this thing that is like a flop in a lot of ways, and you know, someone lied to her several times, someone but doing this show was a good idea. It's just crazy because she's so wickedly talented

and like wickedly talented and everything that's talented. Let's be clear, she has been really good in supporting roles in other things. A lead role, but she had I didn't, I didn't watch it was so she was amazing in it, and books aren't she had, you know, someone to play off

in Ladybird? You know, she has a supporting role that she really shines in this clearly like she was not vocally prepared to sing the show and probably like is not at the point in her career where she's ready to take on this kind of role, and she really was set up for failure by everyone involved. I just Beanie is so great, Like I really believed she could do it, but none of us had heard her sing before.

So it's just unfortunately sing a little bit in Lady Bird, and it was like, oh, she has a nice voice, but she's you know, playing a role that Barbara streisand played. You know, it's it's big shoes to fill. And it's also just really funny in a kind of sick way to look at her and her good Judy ben Platt and see the ways in which these nepotism babies have had their parents like buy them these vanity projects that they could not support, could not do, could not cut it.

That's that's kind of rotten. But like if this is a privileged thing, like I hope somebody learns their lesson, because girly, you've got a clock the hours before you take on Funny Girl. But I'm so rooting for Beanie and I'm so excited to see what she does next. So long, I think she should stick to film, like, go back to being a movie star. She's amazing as in movies she's amazing, and TV too, she's amazing. She's

an amazing actress. She just doesn't need to sing. And I do want to see Leah and Funny Girl too, So I don't think if anyone out there is listening and wants to get us tickets actually well after we've insulted me, tied, Yeah, but we would. We would praise Leah because she's going to be amazing. I don't. I think she's going to be great. I think that she makes out of anybody you know casting right now. I

think she makes a ton of sense. But it's just like just nobody can do Barbara and I I don't really as much as Barbara as she is, she's not a good actress. Sorry, I think she is a good actress. No, no, no, no, no, yeah, I think she is. I saw so many times. I think she's really great. She has an amazing voice. We've already seen her do like several numbers from Funny Girl on Glee. And I also just think it's so crazy that the meme came true. We have to talk about

your Fire Island experience. Oh my god, we have to talk about now. I am a changed man. I've come. I went to boy and I came back a man. So you had while you were there? I did, I did, I did. I said the whole I read exactly from the tour as the first time Fire Island islander. What were your key takeaways? What did you think? Well before I went, Um, Shane O'Neill, you know Shane, I had spoken to him about it and he said something like,

on Far Island, your friends are real. The people you want to have sex with who want to have sex with you are real. Everything else is just a mirage. That is so true. That's the best advice you could get. It really was, It really was. So I really carried that with me, Um, and it was crazy because we went exactly when the Fire Island movie came out, which was on purpose the weekend. The cast was there and

we didn't even We really literally did not know. We were like I think Joel and Bowen are around, because I was with a bunch of comics, and then all of a sudden it became that like we were the v I p s at the Far Island, the least party on Fire Island. InCred I had an amazing time. I have to be honest, I had an amazing time. I didn't know what to expect. I have been classically

um prejudiced against thisis gay men. Yeah, that that was something I had taken on and so I was, um, I was shocked to find that I really fit in with them. Wow, I love that. I mean, honestly, it's I feel like there's a tide change among like fire. I think there's a tide change that could potentially happen for Fire Island because I do think the movie will create a some somewhat new demo. I know, they were all of fifteen nation people there and I was like,

I can tell this is a lot of Asians. Yeah, I also do think I mean, like you clearly are feeling embodied in some type of way. You know, like I follow you, I follow you on Twitter. I know that you're like at a certain point in your gender journey, and like I do think Fire Island likes extremes and like and like once they can kind of like quantify you or qualify you, like that is an easier space

to access. I went in literally being like, Okay, my strategy is just going to be that I'm going to act like it's fine that I'm here and that everything is normal, and I'm going to do everything just like everybody else does. So, like we're going to the underwear party, I'm going to be there in my underwear, like you know, I haven't had top surgery, I whatever. So I was like, but I was like, we're just gonna act like this is fine. Um, and it kind of, yeah, it kind

of turned out to be fine. That was a strategy. I was also going to say, Fire Island is a great place to be when you I'm sorry to bring this up when you um have been bestowed the testosterone induced curse of being attracted to men. Absolutely No, it absolutely was, and I um, okay, I want to say that the episode that I listened to to prepare myself for this of like a virgin was the honey Pluton up? So about Are You the One? Truly one of our best episodes. It was so good. Um it was so funny.

I was like, I'm definitely much more NPR sort of telling than this, But that's okay, thank you, um um testosterone, but um no, just kidding. I sounded like this before too. But anyway, you guys were talking about Kai and the

way that everybody kind of jumped on Kong. Okay. I want to say that when I watched Are You the One, and I saw specifically this thing where Kai walked into the house and everybody suddenly wanted to funk him, I was like, Okay, this is about white supremacy, and especially if you look at what happened with Kai versus what happened with Bassett. I was like, this is about white masculinity versus black femininity and how one is valued and

one is reviled, specifically sexually and romantically. And I was really pissed. I was like, this guy like Kai, to me, he's not that hot in the face or body or style or personality. Okay, he's not that Okay, I agree, I feel the same way. I disagree. I thought he was immediately hot. I immediately found him hot on for us. So that is for you, that's for you to interrogate

about yourselves. Yes, that's exactly. That's a question for me. Yes, but so I and you know, I went to Smith College, So for me, I don't this is not like if you've never seen this before, then that's on you. There's ten million Kai Are you kidding me? Unfortunately? I mean, Kai is like the most chosen name, but also isn't It's right up there with like Persephonie and per seven. I love that. I love the trans women shoes like

long names, yeah, like Celestine. Yeah, it's like Greek mythology stars, um, Shakespeare names. And then trans guys are like I'm brick right or like j J J I J I home. And so I was like watching are you the one? Getting like angry, getting jealous and really being like I mean, obviously I was intensely projecting myself, but I was like, this was me. This would never happen in this way. And then I got to Fire Island, which was like

single sex, Are you the One? And I was the Kai and I was like, actually, all these people want to have sex with me? Yes, you were. I was the one. I was literally the one. I'm pretty sure I was the only transmasculine person. They were the entire weekend that I saw. But did you have a transformative justice circle in a hot tub? Is the question? I

accountable for your behavior? I UM? I like to think that I was acting completely above board the entire time, because no one wants to be the toxic trans mask. There wasn't really on Fire Island. There wasn't an opportunity for me to scream at a woman. Love that. We're about to change that this weekend. I can't be misogynist. If there are women, I will be the woman screaming, and that is your right, that is your right. I'm occupying the space. I'm clearing the space. Um. Speaking of screaming,

we did. We did bring you here for a reason, which is you virgins listening. You have no idea how excited I was when Jess told me at the topic they wanted to talk about. It is something I have been trying to bully Fran into discussing since this podcast started. And that is du du du Phantom of the Opera, specifically the two thousand four Joel Schumacher film starring Emmy Rossum, Gerard Butler, Patrick Wilson, and most importantly, Mini Driver. I had no idea it's a queer movie. It is. It's

queer in which we I mean, it's bad, but we love. Yeah, absolutely, it's awful. It's I've definitely seen it once and I feel like when I walked, when I like walked out of the movie, I remember being like, yeah, I felt like the person that directed that claims to have had sex with people. Yeah, well, definitely the movie I watched. You know, we do this thing often where we start with the negative things about something. Yeah, right, um, so I guess we'll get it out of the way. This

movie is bad. I think it's mostly bad because Andrew lid Weber did hand pick Joel Schumacher to make the movie, and thus like he's just like far too involved in it, and it ends up being a very literal adaptation of the Broadway musical and I think suffers for that. Well, it's also very in that early to mid two thousand's, like we're doing a dark, gritty, realistic like this is like if Phantom of the opera really happens, right, which like it is based on truevans. No, it's not. Yes,

the Phantom of the Opera is based on it. No, it's I mean it's based on a novel. Yeah, but the novel is based on something that actually happened in the Parisian Opera in the eighteen hundreds. Are you sure? Yes, I'm looking up right now, y looking up. The novel Le Fantom del Opera was partly inspired by historical events at the Paris Opera during the nineteenth century and buy an apocryphal tale concerning the use of a former ballet pupils skeleton. Yes, and there was an actual chandelier that

killed someone. So you doubted me, And it turns out I I could school you on. You know what you believed in yourself, and I believe in myself. I don't think there was a literal phantom, but I think there was. Oh, you think I will preface I do think I should start this conversation by saying, Phantom of the Opera is my favorite musical. Yeah, it's my favorite musical too. It is the only musical you've seen. Though, I am like a fake gay in that I'm like I love musical.

It's Phantom of the Opera and Rent, not Rent. Oh my god, the day that we have to finally do a Rent episode will be the day I killed myself. Listen. I was fourteen at one point, and I don't think I don't think that I should be punished for the We're not we're not calling you in. We're not we're not holding you accountable for that. But Rent was revelatory at the age of fourteen. That's so Phantom for me is was not the first musical I saw, but the first musical I saw where I was like, Oh, this

is what musicals can be. Like the spectacle of it. I mean, when the chandelier rises over the audience, it is the gag of all gags. That's Chekov's gun. Yeah, and it happens right at the beginning of the plate and with the overture. Like so, actually, the last time we're currently in New York at the I Heart Studio recording.

The last time I was here was in October and that night I went to see Phantom of the Opera right after it had reopened, like post covid um, and hearing that overture being played, it just was like Broadways back. I love that that's what you returned to, ushering you back into real life. Well, it was like one of the only things that there were tickets to. Um, but I was so happy to see it, and also like my seats were in the nosebleeds and like you can't have a bad seat for that show because it is

such a spectacle. It's kind of like going on a ride at Disney. You can always see a Candele opera. No matter where you're sitting, you can see it. What was your first experience with Phantom? Oh my god. Um, I want to say that I've seen Phantom on tour up to five times. Maybe my family used to love to see musicals downtown. That's like my family seeing the Blue Man Group five. Yes, exactly that the opera was our Blue Man grow and there are LinkedIn, so you know,

the Blue Men and the Phantom have. I distinctly remember my mom and my auntie going to see it when I was like five, and like I didn't go because I was a kid, and then them coming back and telling me about it and going like someday when you're older, will take you. So Phantom of the Opera was sort of this right of passage for me, I want to say, Okay, huge confession. The Phantom of the Opera two thousand four

movie is definitely one of my roots. Okay made you it was a root of I want to say lesbian is um, but I think what I really mean is a sort of colonized desire about an innocent white womanhood. Specifically, so Emy Ross really did it for you. I mean Rowsom really did it for me. And she was only seventeen. I know it's sucked up. It's sucked up. And and Gerard was like thirty seven and is so miscast. No, he's not know he was so bad. And you know what was supposed to be Antonio Bandera, whoa my god.

And they tried to make Gerard Butler look like Antonio Bandera and and if you watch, there's video of Antonio banderis performing music from Phantom of the Opera and it's so incredible. He sounds amazing. And for some reason they went with Gerard Butler, who can't sing. No, if there's one thing we learned from the Shrek franchise, it's that Mandaris can say. And they didn't even make him ugly like when he does his reveal of his hideous deformity. It's not that bad. And he's like, you know, he

got a sunburn. It was truly truly anticlimactic. Yeah, he's supposed to be horrifically disfigured, Like we're supposed to see his brain from Yeah, he's supposed to look like a sunken you can see his pulsing brain. Yea. For me, I feel like the I feel like the phantom is nonminary. I feel like the phantom gives nonminary vibe. Well, I think the phantom is an in cell. Yes, well they can be that. They could be an a nonminary in cell.

And the phantom is definitely black pilled, and like that's why he kidnaps christ the kind of like makes a doll of her now and tells her that he's her father as a method of seducing. Well, it's I mean,

you think about the mechanics of it. So Christine is this orphan girl who's in the ballet core at this Parisian opera and someone starts teaching her music at night, and she thinks it's the ghost of her dead father, and then she finds out it's actually this creepy guy wearing a mask who sitting in the rafters of the opera on his red and board, Yeah, who is an angel? And she's like, yeah, that makes sense. There's a lot

of freud, which makes sense. Okay, if the Fantom of the Opera is non binary but also an in cell. And the whole thing about in cells is that they hate women. Does the does the Fantom of the opera hate half of themselves? Probably? Well, it's like, well with in cells, it's like they hate women as a byproduct. Well, they hate women, but they hate society and they believe because they can't get laid, they believe that that society functions in a way in which they will never have

any happiness. They will and most of that sex sex which you know, t and so because of that, you know, if they're black pills, they have chosen to totally like believe that and like rejects society. And that's what the Phantom has done. He lives at a cave under the opera. I think the Phantom has had sex with Madame Jerry. Though, okay, this is a Madame Jerry stand podcast. Let's say that I think Meg is Madame Jerry and the Phantom's kid, who's Meg's dad. Okay, well the kiss, so let me

let me unfortunately break that assumption for you. So we have we do need to speak briefly of Love Never Dies, which is the sequel music holt to Phantom of the Opera that Andrewoid Weber wrote. I watched it on YouTube in the Deep Pandemic when they go. It is a sequel to Phantom of the Opera. I'll give you like a very top line of the plot. So it's set ten years after Phantom of the Opera. Um Christine is

a famous opera sayer. She's married to Raoul, she has a kid, and she gets booked to go do this carnival Coney Island, which is the whole thing takes place on Coney And it turns out this carnival is owned by Phantom, who's actually alive, and he and Christine, right after the end of Phantom of the Opera fucked and Christine had his child, and what discovers in Love Never Dies that Christine's son is his. They get back together.

Raoul is like a drunk gambler who's lost all their money, and the show ends with Meg Jerry, who's in love with the Phantom shooting and killing Christine, and the Phantom and his son are like, I don't believe in the cannon of love never. I don't either. I I reject it as cannon. I'm just saying that it exists. It exists, and it does complicate the idea that Meg is Madame Jerry in the fancis, Madame Jerry is the ballet madam. She's like the mysterious ballet mommy who is also somehow

connected to the Phantom. And in the movie you find out that she saw him in a freak show, yes, and helped him escape and helped him get under the opera house. But that's why I'm like, yeah, so then they were they were they were doing it under on a rock by a lake on that movie opera house, on the boat Exactly would we all fuck them? Antha? Yea? I have because had enough I read enough Phantom of the Opera fan piction that I could confidently say yes,

I would suck. I think it depends on which Phantom. For me. I don't think I could Functrard Butler Phantom. He's kind of pathetic, Yeah, he's he's kind of snivel. He's snivelly. Yeah. The part that I always remember is

that he has a little a little booger, a little cry. Oh. You know, phantoms throughout the years have been either like when Phantom started, it was like kind of an older man is like less hot, and through the years the phantoms have gotten hot or I don't know if you've ever seen this, but have you ever seen Nicole scherz Are performing Phantom of I have one hundred, absolutely percent seen Nicole her which is a terrible casting for Christine.

She's way too I'm like, but she sounds yeah, but she's had She has an incredible voice, and she had a whole moment with Andrew laid Webber. But this performance, it's her standing in the middle and then all of the famous phantom actor around her, and it looks like it's about to be like they're about to come on her face. Yes, it's full phantom Boukaqiya would would would do it? Yeah? I would watch that on portn Hub

Phantom Buck It probably exists. I'm sure it does. My thing about the two thousand four movie is that I believe there's a strong, strong, strong lesbian subtext between between Meg and Christine. Meg who they literally present as like a Fooch Dike in that movie. I have a strong head theory that Meg is in love with Christine and you can track her through the movie and what she does.

A lot of the time when Rawl shows up, Meg is also there, or Meg is there to be like I got to see her, or like how can I help? How can I rescue her? In the end, it's Meg, not Raoul, who successfully leads the mob to save Christine. And she shows up wearing pants. Why is she wearing pants? She's a ballet well and in them is called The musical ends on Meg's face befure. She picks up the mask and then there's a spotlight on her face and

then it ends. I think in the movie there's more romantic tension between Christine and Mini Driver, who plays Carlossi Madonna. I like that Mini Driver is the best part of the movie. Many drivers amazing, her Italian accent completely off the wall. Yes, Mini Driver, I will say this, Mini Drivers the only person in this film who knows what movie she's in. Okay, how so I feel like you've said this before because this movie is camp that knows it's camp, and everyone else is acting like they're in

a very serious movie. Didn't, but no one else knew. I think maybe many Joel Schumacher knew that. Hue. Let's talk. Let's talk about the fact that this movie was directed by Joel Schumacher, starring Patrick Wilson, the star of Angels in America. Yeah, Joel Schumacher, who I think this is was his first movie post Batman and Robin Nipples on

the Campus, Miss Cartoonish. Yes, Joel Schumacher said to Minni Driver, Hey, you know you're in a Joel Schumacher movie, right, And she was like, yeah, I got it, and no one else got that. Wigs and wigs. She didn't sing, She did not sing. She did not sing. They faked her voice. But you know what, I'm happy that they did that so that we got Mini Driver in this movie because she is incredible. And Prima Donna is I think one of the high points of the film. I love Prima Donna,

the best character. Good Prima Donna. I think I love her. Alatta is like one of my favorite parts of the show. Carlotta has the most iconic lines in the show. Until you stopping these things from happening. This thing does not happen, and that happens in the first five minutes of the movie Drink Think of Me but Rose. Have you seen the Anniversary at the Royal Albert Hall, Yeah, with Sara Bogga. I love that. I think that one is actually my favorite version of him. Yeah, well, I think he's the

Phantom and that is one of my favorite. So he's the best, and he's really sexy. He's really really sexy. I agree with what you said about like in the past, they're more sort of like older, like a mobster kind of baritone. It's very daddy vibes, very very daddy. And then the guy in the Anniversary version he has like a high voice. It's a really different kind of take on Phantom. This is insane. The way y'all are nerd ing out over these different renditions of Phantom has me shook.

And do people know this about you? Do people know how much you love It's kind of a classic thing about me that I love Phantom of them. I'm so happy that this is bringing us together. I am. I'm so when you got so excited, I was like, Okay, great, we're gonna have something to talk about. This is this is gonna because no one ever wants to talk about Phantom. No real people who really want to talk about Phantom of the Opera. Why do you think people think it's bad?

I do think other than the fact that it is bad, well, I do think it's it is that it is. It has the baggage of like being the longest running musical, so people think, like, it's just so commercialized. I also think it's the androloid webber of it all because like, this is the type of musical he makes this like big, bombastic, blockbuster musical. Look at cats, look at you know, christ Supersticie.

I feel like people here, I almost have a like less generous reading, which is that it has the word opera in the title, and people think it's an opera and instead of musical, and they're like, I don't like opera, and it's like, it's a musical in the truest sense of the word. It's literally got nothing to do with opera. Honestly, that would deter me. It's about an opera, it's about several Yeah, merely the backdrop for what is a beautiful musical.

Because I don't actually love opera, but I love Phantom of the I love phantoms. I have at home a mug that my mom gave me. Um that as you add something hot to it, it's a Phantom of the Opera mug. The Phantom mask fills in and turn white, and it is my most prize possession. That's that's a good mom. And I do like go on et s once a month looking for vintage Phantom of the operation. Almost bought a vintage Phantom of the Opera shirt when

I was in Houston, Texas. But it was like it was like a hundred twenty dollars something that was a little too much. I was like, I would pay sixty, I would pay seventy five, but not I would have paid that much. I mean, I paid a hundred dollars for this wasp shirt that I'm wearing. Did you did you really need it? Um? Let's just need everyone to know. But let's talk about Emmy Rossum. What did you think

of her as Christine? Okay, I really really, really really think that specifically Emmy Rossum as Christine and Fransom of the Opera was the root of deep colonized desire for me and that for us for for years and years and years afterwards, like fifty years afterwards, I had to really work to undo this thing about like way fish white women who need help, like white women with long, brown haired help, and there are so many of them, and there are so many, they're very they're very common

to find, and I have dated all of them. Um, and that has been Yeah, that's been a real journey for me. I am sort of over that now. But I had a meeting with Emmy Rassam's production company this past year and they were like, we love your pilot. We're going to send it to Emmy. And I was like, we're gonna like, I like fell out. I was like, we're going to be the phantom. The space between me and Emmy Rassam is narrowing, it's going and then the phantom will be non binary, as I'm at the phantom

will be absolutely non binary. Yeah. I honestly, I think of myself is more of an entree or okay, um, who's one of the little goofy opera house guys. Um. An image of the phantom taking off the white mask and revealing like half girl. Yeah, like like a yeah smoky eye and like a gorgeous lit and the other a yeah, yeah, I can see it. I could see it. I do want to celebrate Joel Schumacher, who once talked about how he has slept with ten thousand to twenty

men for her, Yeah, for her rest in power. King um who truly like this movie is just more is more, like everywhere it's it's just like there is so much happening on screen at all times, and like none of it works amazingly. But and also like the editing style, it's like nothing lingers in the right way. It's like always cutting on the wrong beat. It's like like it's all very like not stylized and like trying to be real.

And then they do like we'll throw in like a weird surrealist things like during Phantom of the Opera when he's leading her down the hallway and like all the hands are holding the candle. Oh my god, where does

that come from? Where does that come from? Yeah? And then like when they get down to his underground cavern, like it's lit with a million candles, but like the thing is that happens in the musical because you need that because it's on stage, like in a movie, it's just too bright, Like why do you have that many candles?

And why are they lifting out of the floor, Like that's this is not That's what I mean is that it's too precious about maintaining things from the stage show that like don't really translate to film instead of finding

a new stylistic way to tell this story. But then there are some moments where they move away from what happens on stage because they want it to like seem more gritty and realistic, Like how um at the graveyard Instead of doing the kind of fireball thing that the Phantom does on stage, they have like a sword fight, and it's like and more you know, Captain Jack Sparrow, how does he? But it's like how does this guy know how to fight with the sword? He's a genius,

you know, but what about rawling? He's a savant And that's like what's a savant? He's like he's like like a brilliant composer and like um engineer and like all these things. I mean, god. He also he also when Raoul comes down to save Christine, the Phantom like ties him to the gate in him. But it's like I don't really understand where the tension is there, like what he's actually like how he's what what lever is being pulled out, but there is a vibe between Raoul and

the Phantom. Obviously, obviously this is a Joel schumacro film. I won Patrick Wilson was gredeously. I hate him so much, but well, no, I hate the character rall. Yes, That's what I really appreciate about the twenty five anniversary version is that I feel like it's the only version I've seen that makes it more clear that like Christine is being abused and that like everybody is kind of abusing her and gaslighting her and disbelieving her and into it.

I feel like the whole musical and this is just from what I remember from watching Ages ago, I feel like a lot of it is like the engine of it is that suspended, is it? Or is it not? Like sexual tension between the two of them, because like I feel like, I mean, I you know, don't go into this movie being like, oh my god, I'm gonna fall in love with the Phantom or She's going to

fall in love with the Phantom. Yeah, because you have songs like the Point of No Return, which is so horny and also inexplicably in the movie, there's a tango added to it, and it's literally just like because Joel Schumacher saw Mulan Rouge and was like, well, I guess we need to tango. I guess we need Yeah, her shirt falling off of her, off of the seventeen year old girl, she looks so she's so skinny in this movie, Like her waist is like the size of two of

my fingers. White fragility, white fragile femininity. I learned something messed up about that. I really I was so obsessed with her that I was like collecting um like magazines that she was on the cover of. And I realized one time when I um it was in eighth grade. It was winter break. I went with my gay best friend Um, who now is also a non binary person in the other direction. Um and our other friend Jesse, who we both like kind of had a crush on who is this boy Um? And we went to Borders

bookstore and I became so their name. I became so obsessed with going through the magazines at Borders to find Emmi Rassam that in that moment I was like, I actually think I care more about this than I care about this boy that was like me. When I pretended to have a cross on Lindsay Lohan. I recollect all the magazine covers. That was me looking for magazines with you and McGregor. In the You and McGregor, we all

sent a lot of time and various parts of borders Orders. Well, the internet was much smaller than Yeah, I was the magazine. You had to look at a real material picture. Yeah. One of my favorite recent memories of Phantom was lu Anne being at the opening night of Phantom coming back to Broadway and then Andrew laid webber dje outside. Yes, oh my god, Yes that looked amazing because I saw it the next night and I was so bad I wasn't there, probably could have got No. I had an

incredible fam for that. I was like, this was happening. What do you think Andrew loid web DJ is like what he was just playing Phantom of the Opera remixes. No, he was not. He was you know what they want, that's the stupidest and that was also what he wanted, and that's what I wanted when I used to be a DJ, Like, I had a Phantom of the Opera remix that I would often play at sex parties. And it's a very jarring thing to come on while you're getting the song Phantom of the Opera, will you send it?

You have to understand that for the people who want to see this, this is what like, we want to see five phantoms all singing like one line, one word of the song alternating we want all the remixing exactly. We want every single and then every single one of them steps forward and goes sing for me. And so what what are Phantom? What are Phantom fans called Phantom fans? pH a Phantom? Okay, so phantoms? Um, I feel like you know you're seeing for me is like you know,

Wicked Stanza. Wow, you know what I mean? Nothing nothing sends full body shivers up my spine like hearing the dun d d d dandom because the rod is about to start. It's about to start. Buckle up. Um. I mean, I feel like I've been inducted into the fandom and I really appreciate that emphasis. You're welcome. Yeah, it's also okay if not. I feel like Phantom of the Opera is there's like there's people who had weird gay sexual awakenings about Phantom of the Opera and people who had

weird gay sexual awakenings about cats. And they're all here today. Yeah, I didn't have it about cats. That's not my andrewlaid Webber. I'm choking for Phoebe. Okay, so producer Phoebe Prucer Phoebe just said that for her, this is she is more into Jesus a superstar, which is not something I have any experience. I've never seen. I think Jesus Christ Superstar is in the same way that I said, people would eliminate Phantom of the Opera for having opera and the title.

I sort of eliminated Jesus Christ Superstar Jesus Christ. I was like, this is not for me. Yeah, the Phantom is my Jesus. I want to see him to be crucified exactly. He might be at some point maybe in Love Never Dies. Truly. If there is a Phantom of the Opera new movie or like limited series or something, I need to write on it. Not a limited series, so funny, a Phantom limited series, I mean that takes place in the modern day, like it still has to

be period Phantom of the Opera. And there have been well, there have been a lot of Phantom adaptations, and some of them are like more contemporary, Like there's the Phantom of the Multiplex, which is like the weirdest one I've seen a Um do you guys know um Takarrasca the Japanese like all few male theater. True. Okay, so this is a thing. It's a Japanese all female theater true, where they do these long, sweeping musicals and women play

all the roles, including man. And it's specifically a thing, specifically a thing that you're seeing these women dressed as like sexy sexy men, and women go to see these shows to see these like perfect men who are And they did a version of Phantom of the Opera, which I want to see that it was its own. It's not the Andrewoid Weber musical. They did their own adaptation of Phantom. You can find it on the internet. There were no subtitles though, so so you're just kind of

piece of spider. Yeah, just vibe. Um. I can't believe there's a phantom at the Multiplex, and I guess a phantom at the all women's Japanese. There's a there's a lot of different phantom at this at the Staples Center. Phantom of Fire Island, Fire Island. That is going to be you. That is going to be you sing for me at your Disease Mystery. Next week we'll be back with an episode on tight tanic Um. They called her

the Ship of Dreams, and she was. It's been eighty four years, but it will only be a week until we talk about titan And next week Ross will do an hour of radio theater the themed around the Titanic. Why don't you come over and suck in the That is actually every it's every single character has a Transatlantic accent. You all can tell us what you want us to talk about next. You can suggest to show a book, a cultural phenomenon. You can d m us your suggestions.

You can leave it an Apple review, like we want to know what you want to talk What do you want us to talk about? You can leave us a review on Apple podcast. It really helps us out a lot. Also, if you have suggestions for a future episode, slide into our too ms at Like a virgin Um and also connect with us on social. You can find me everywhere at Rose Damn You and you can find me at friends, squishca and where you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts and leave us a rating

on Spotify or review on Apple. Podcasts Like a Virgin is an iHeart Radio production our producers Phoebe Uter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chich and Nikki Eatur Until Next Week by Virgins M. M. Pat