Patreon Preview: Wicked Review

Happy holidays, virgins. Yes this is not a glitch. As a gift just for you, we are back in your RSS feeds as a one time holiday special. Now, in case you didn't get the memo, Rose and I brought the pod back this summer, but not on your usual podcasting platform. We are releasing weekly episodes exclusively on Patreon. That's patreon dot com slash like a virgin. So if you miss us, we wanted to give you a little taste of what we're doing over there with that's right,

Me none, no name?

What is your childhood? I am a cook?

Shook girls, you.

Know what's going down before us?

So round Wicked Part one, Part two. Let us be glad. Okay, let us be glad. Let us be grateful that this time both MIC's are recording Amma's divas. We already recorded an hour and a half long Wicked recap episode yesterday yes only to discover that one of the mics had not been connected, so we had to fully scrap that episode and we are re recording today. But you know what, it's good. We our thoughts were kind of sprawled all over the place yesterday.

Also very excitable, like we were kind of like the you know, I mean, I know a lot of times we record this podcast, we don't really like think about the audience, but we really were just kind of fanning out.

You're like to triple checking me audio. I'm just making sure that yours is actually working.

It is, But yeah, I feel like we have only uh more context and insight to gain by going for a round two of this discussions.

And I even pulled out my Wicked mug. Oh I love it. I love So before we get in to Wicked, we're going to cover a few lingering things that two things specific yeah, two things specifically, two different sides of a queer theatrical spectrum. They're all they're all related somehow, And this time Fran is not going to spill any tea. It's not supposed to be said on the mic. Don't even don't even don't even have cover your mouth like when Kristen China with covered ari on his mouth and Wicked.

First, I did accidentally say something that I wasn't supposed to say, because you know, we're insiders, we're insider girlies. And uh, but yeah, Rose finally saw O Mary finally saw. I saw it like earlier this year. When you think about.

Probably the last person in New York to see oh my, and I loved it. It's so brilliant. Cole Scola, who, if you don't know, wrote, directed, wrote, and stars in it as Mary Todd Lincoln. Mary Todd Lincoln, who is a Mary Todd Lincoln who is a drunk former cabaret star who's married to gay Abraham Lincoln and just wants to get back on the stage. It's just it's so fucking brilliant. I was so blown away by how like

Can I I want to ask, because like there are probably a lot of versions that like might.

Never see the show but have heard all about it.

You would be been hearing so much about the show when the curtain came up and you saw like the first scene or two. Was there anything about like the texture of the show that you were like, this was really surprising. I wasn't expecting this, not not really that it was surprising, because you know, I know Cole.

I've known them for a long time at this point, so.

You understand the comedic dissibility is very specific.

Yeah, I know, I know Cole's you know, vibe and aesthetic, and I've seen them do so many different things, so that everything that is in A Mary makes so much sense because it's all pulling from Cole's long career, as you know, like an erstwhile New York Cabaret, Muse and Diva.

Cole is very like a if you know, you know, kind of comedy girl and now every comedy many more people. No.

Yeah, so I wasn't surprised that I wasn't surprised necessarily by the content of it. I was just surprised, and I wasn't even surprised by how good it was. I was just so delighted to see what they've been doing for so long on this massive scale and get so much buy in from the audience. Well they wrote it like ten years ago.

Yeah, you know, and it's it's I want to know what the fuck it took to get Broadway to buy into a really fucking crazy idea.

I don't know if it's like, well had a really successful off Broadway, right, were right?

Like, I think my one of the things that I was most enthralled about from the show is that it is as successful as it is because there's so many people that my look at what the show is made up of and be like, oh, that's so niche. It's like absurdist, it's very faggoty, very non bindary, you know whatever, like and I kind of loved that. It's a it is the best thing on Broadway. It will the most expensive thing. Yeah, it will sweep the Tony. It deserves,

Yeah, and you watching the show, it's not in any way pandering to the mainstream Broadway audience. It's being exactly what it is. In this really like transgressive, hilarious way, and the fact that it has been so successful is by design of its humor, not by design of its pandering.

Right, It's like it's like transgressive, but it's like also so stupid. It's like not interested in like it has no commentary whatsoever, like which I love. No serious there's no serious moment where you know, Mary Mary realizes yeah, like deals with her trauma, her addiction, Like.

Oh, there's there's thing like that.

And I, I mean the other another reason why I mean I I I think I said when we in our last record like that, it reminded me a little bit of like slave play, which is kind of like that's a silly that's like a really bizarre comparison, but like because they have nothing to do with each other. But I think what I was kind of thinking about is like how Jeremy O. Harris and Cola Scola are now both like it girls, and when has there ever been a play? Right girl?

You know what I mean? Arthur Arthur Miller married married Marilyn Monroe. Right, yeah, yeah, I was, Yeah, That's what I'm saying.

Though that's a long time ago, and it's kind of like I it makes me hopeful for the theater, especially since Hollywood is on the deep down decline, you know what I mean, like they're making so much less less shit. I just I hope that people can I hope that Broadway producers can see novelty instead of things that are just like adapted existing ip I mean.

Obviously linked Abraham link, it's like an existing i PA. But also I mean, I think you said yesterday that you know, Cole didn't do any research on Mary Todd Lincoln going into this, which I love. It really is just as if Countess Luanne was the first lady during at the end of the Civil War.

Yeah, she she honestly she she would be she would have a great run as O Mary.

Yeah, I I if you're not aware.

Also, like there are snippets of of of Mary Todd Lincoln in this show that are like taken from Cole as a persona because Cole used to do cabaret. Cole is like sober, they're like just they're just funny ways that just Cole really bodied this performance. And oh my god, the finale.

Finale is amazing for okay, spoilers for a Mary spoilers.

Mary.

The show ends with so Mary Todd Lincoln's gay huh been. Abraham Lincoln has tried to distract her with acting classes from John Wilkes Booth, who it turns out is his secret lover. And when Mary finds all this out, she is the one who shoots Abraham Lincoln and blames it on John Wilkes Booth. And then the show ends with this sort of like fever dream of a cabaret number with Mary Todd Lincoln doing She'll be coming around the Mountain when she comes low lo La. She was a

Did you ever did you ever google or like look at the Wikipedia for the lyrics of Copa Cabana.

No, it was It's.

Literally like the Lola the Showgirl. It's like it actually tells like a really we should look at it right now. It actually tells like a really dark and like sad story about like a show girl that is like, you know, she's like past her prime and she like won't leave the club, and she's like an alcohol It has like bizarre similarities to like the oh Mary story. I had never really listened to fucking Coba Cabana and thought, wow.

Show girls are a dark entity. Yes, that's true. I'm excited for that, the Pamela Anderson movie, The Last show Girl. Oh, but I also feel like it might not be good. Well, which Copola.

Is doing it again, I'm not Sophia not so fac Cobla, which I don't know. I've never seen any of her, I've never heard of her before. I'm sure no offense. I'm sure it will be bad.

But yeah, so this so this was a very good theatrical experience. Let's talk about a very bad theatrical experience, which was you finally watched the second half of Amelia.

Perez Amelia Perez, I feel like, I I mean, it's funny that we're talking about these back to back because something that like oh Mary is. Something that's really beautiful about the reception of oh Mary is that because it's just like a good motherfucking story. It like hasn't been relegated to like the LGBT like pride representation space, Like people aren't talking about it like in ways that are like, oh, like inclusivity is so important.

It's like there's nothing tokenized about Cole or about no Meal's identity is so secondary to them just being an incredible creator. It doesn't show up like the text of non binary Noess does not that doesn't show up in the play at all. That's it's not like, I mean other than outside of that performance itself, but like it's not like a part of the narrative, and it hasn't really been part of the narrative of the marketing of the play, which is amazing.

Like I love that it just gets to be itself. I think that that actually people that market things like don't ever want to give things with queer people in it a chance for it to actually just be a good story.

I just find an audience based on its own.

Merits, and Amelia Perez like did exactly that, which is like they they're just like, oh, trans trans trans trans you love it, don't you? Can Film Festival and Can Film Festival is.

Like three awards for every single actress in this movie. Congratulations trends, Like I do think I think Zoe Saldana is good with what she has to work with.

I think the actress who plays Amelia Perez is good in a fucking awful role. I mean, this whole movie and specifically Amelia Prez's story, which is the whole story is huge megaflop due to Kaka.

Yeah, I mean, I have more to say about Carlo Sevia Guescom, but let's for the virgins, Like, let's give an overview of the plot.

It's about a cartel leader who enlists the help of a lawyer to disappear from the world and transition in secret, fake her own death, and she comes back and wants to be with her family again, so she has them move in with her, and then she also starts this nonprofit organization to find the bodies of people all over who have been, you know, disappeared by the cartels and why is it a musical? And then she and at

Yes, it's really, it's really and and the thing is, like, all y'all, if you've read anything online about Amelia Press, that's like negative. Almost all of it is about transrepresentation. It's about the depiction of trans womanhood. It's about the bizarreity of it. It's about all these different things that they that are viewed as problematic. Let's just just you said, let's set all of that aside. Let's pretend that none of that criticism exists. Let's pretend the representation of transsness

It's a bad movie. The music is bad, the music's terrible, nobody, the choreography isn't good. It's not a good story. It doesn't make sense why any of the characters are acting

And for me, because I am who I am, I saw that clip and I was like, I'm really excited to see this movie. Like I was excited because I was like, this is either gonna be so bad it's good, or I'm gonna like find something.

To like about it, and it was neither. It was neither.

And like I and all that number specifically is totally completely different from the rest of the film, which is the rest of the film is really just like kind of straight true crime and.

The true melodrama.

Yeah, and to the point of like it's a bad movie, like the the crime. The plotting of the crime on a quality level is like law in Order. It's like it's not that good. It's it's not interesting. It's it's really really like like just it's you know, I don't even understand why I'm fucking Zoe's Heldonia is the protagonist of this film, as you said, like none of their

I mean I get that, because I don't think she does it for you know, like altruistic reasons. I think she does it because she is a lawyer in this really fucked up legal system and sees the people around her, you know, working with bad people and becoming really rich because of it, and so when the opportunity is presented

Oh yeah, no, was not interested in women like period, Like was fully just kind of like there there, this woman did not know who she was. She had, in my opinion, no redeeming qualities. And I think something that I for some reason I'm not seeing anywhere on the internet, but like I felt immediately is that she is like missus doubt fired, and like the the like well.

She missus doubt fires herself.

Yes, yes, and the alignment yes, and the alignments between these two plots kind of bizarre, like they have the same problem where it's like Robin Williams when he becomes Missus Doubtfire, You're like, oh my god, he's the protagonist. He's good, Like he's like he's like absolved himself up everything he's done in as a prior, as a parent, prior to this moment, and in actuality he's the villain and he's violating a custody agreement. He's tricking and gaslighting

But also we're still not We're still letting her use her new presentation as as deceit as a way to hoodwink her family.

Yes, and also like it skips like over the entire transition by like four years, and I was like, where was the makeover montage again? Like come on, I like, you know, I'm again. I'm stupid. I love misstu fhire. We love misstau fires. So when I heard the log line like Transcartel leader like trans like she she medically transitions and secret fakes her own death, I was like, love that, you know. I love ugly Betty. I love like really bizarre depictions of trans womanhood. I love trans villainy.

And this movie kind of is a morality tale. It tries to be. It does have this element of being like a fable or a fairy tale to it, but it fails at it spectacularly. Yeah, but not but not interestingly. It's not an interesting failure. It's just a huge megaflop due to Kaka. Yeah.

Well, you know who was the dud doo cock of this entire movie was Selena Gomez she I.

Kept an eye out for Selena and I wish I had her.

Her acting is so bad and her Spanish is so bad, and like she she I don't know why. I don't know why she was cast in this movie. It feels like star power first star power. I guess she knew that she could like buy her way into the Can, like I don't know if like I don't know anything about Can, I probably shouldn't allege that, but anyways, I I just I was constantly like having a hard time figuring out what the intent of the film was because I was hoping it would be like a good plot,

It didn't. I didn't really.

Get how it folded into the like the narrative as a whole, and why.

I just I.

Think what something that you had said prior when we talked about it was like that they should have just let her be a villain, like if they had just let her be evil, and post transition, she kept being evil, like she kept killing people.

She kept being a Cartellian yes, like that would have been sickening.

Yes, I mean and something else you also said was that it wanted to be Banano.

It wanted, which is the perfect depiction of trans villainy.

Next to Gea Gunn and the All Stars season of Drag.

Race, those are the two.

Like and Alexis Mead and oh of god, fuck yeah alexis Mead and ugly Betty.

Amelia Press should have been Alexis Mead.

That literally, I mean, yeah, that's why part of why I was so excited. But no, it was it didn't want to do that. It was it was an unfun movie, and it was a bad musical and you yes, and they were all bad singers. And and to to make a trans woman sing outside of her vocal register when the whole movie is supposed to be about transnis is transphobic, Like that's that was That's an awful thing to.

Do to like Carlos Sophia. So you know what was a good musical. We have now reached the wicked portion of the recording. We love the transition there.

Sorry, we're just making sure that we're gooding and we are love the audios working.

Okay, Well, first of all, we were originally going to do a Glicked episode, but all of us mutually were like, we have no interest in seeing Gladiator two this weekend. It was. It was mutual.

However, Rose very bravely initiated it by calling me a few hours before we were supposed.

To get up.

I'm not feeling it, and I was like, I'm so glad you said that, because I just watched Gladiator one and you know, it was it was really the movie was fine, and Wicked is enough for us to fill a whole episode with.

Yeah, so spoiler warning, you have been warned. We will be going in depth talking about Wicked part one.

Yeah, we will be responding to I think that a lot of y'all left things in the Patreon chat that you wanted us.

To like talk about.

We will be talking about all of that and more.

We're gonna go through essentially like the movie kind of seen by seeing musical number my musical number. Yeah, yeah, number, my number are takes. But before we get there, I will say my my logline. You know, the lead of the story is I loved it. I loved it. I loved it so much. I think it I think it is as good a blockbuster version of the first act of Wicked the Musical could be, and I think it justified being split into two.

Movies, which is crazy you would never think like, Yeah, I totally agree. I think my I said, I feel like everybody making the Disney plus like live action remakes need to take notes from John and Chew as to how to do a mother how to do a motherfucking adaptation. I think my kind of thesis walking out of this movie, which we'll get into more later, is that John M.

Chew took on the truly.

Impossible task of adapting this show, which is in itself an adaptation of, outside of the Bible and religious texts, the most famous story ever told.

Yes, like actually two different versions of it, because because Wicked the Musical is, Yes, it's an adaptation of the novel Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch in the West by Gregory Maguire, but it's also and it's also an adaptation of the Wizard of Oz. But it's also really an adaptation of the Wizard of Oz the movie. And so this movie had to be all of those things and somehow manages to do them all

You were like, this is going to disappoint me. You said it many times on the podcast, like for years on Twitter.

I was in essentially like an expectation deficit. And then this movie came in and so far exceeded what I could have even hoped it would be. Yeah, and like I was, really I was really blown away by it.

Yeah, and like again, we'll like keep talking about this, but it's like the impossible task of adapting this in a perfect world. What you are doing is you're taking references and at times like kind of direct duplications of things we already really loved about the original stories of The Wizard of Oz and Wicked, sprinkling them into the narrative will then embellishing them for the updatedness of twenty twenty four cinema and.

For and for a different medium, yes, than the source material, and then creating novelty.

I like actually creating like new parts of the world, which a lot of times are blasphemous, like if you do it the wrong way, right, but he I feel like, did it the right way every time. And I actually think that this was really really well illustrated in the overture because.

When I'm holding my breast, because from the moment the overture started, I like I had this moment of like a computer glitching of realizing as I was hearing the score seeing the flying monkeys, I was like, oh, fuck, I'm watching the Wicked movie, right, I mean, it's real before you even see the monkeys girl, the original Wizard of Oz font yes, in the winning credits is so my look at my nipples, they're rock cards. And the overture of Wicket is already so incredible.

But then you know, you see Dorothy holding the broom, and as the Munchkins like running through the field and the overture is playing, you hear like like a fraction of a melody from the original Wizard of Oz from like the Munchkin where it's like.

It's like the witches, Yeah, yeah, is there. There are many melodic moments from the original movie that were woven into the score by Stephen Schwartz when he first wrote it, Like Defying Gravity kind of cribs a little bit from somewhere over the Rainbow. Yeah, there's so many There's so

It was probably my favorite song. I think it was in the movie. I think it was my favorite song.

Arianna Grande but Terra, as she was credited in the movie, is yeah, the woman, the actress that you are. You know what what Arianna has to do in this opening number is so difficult on the acting level, on the acting level because she has to come out as you know, this Glinda that we remember from the movie that we

It's like sassy, It's like a little like well, it's a little like Kristen Weggs, Eliza Manelli.

It's a little like whoa.

But but you know, on the acting level, Like that's part of why this was my favorite song is like the complexity of how this character feels in this moment in time is so much deeper than what I saw in the stage adaptation growing up as a kid. I want to know if you disagree with this, but like it in this first number, it immediately justifies itself as as a film because when you, in my opinion, when you watch the original musical, you know the ending is

But because I think, I think it say in the music, Yeah, it is in the music. That's true. That's true. It's in the music.

But but regardless, like the fact that Ari, the fact that Aria has to be like a politic on the outside, like a politician in this world, basically making streamlining propaganda from Oz to make sure that everyone knows that Alphaba was the ould timate evil while inside having all of these complicated feelings about the fate of her friend and

And and she'll never be able to tell it to anyone, no, because Alphabet in Act two of the musical specifically asks her not to clear her name because she understands the that that will just continue to cause this unrest in Oz. And I think that what this movie does really well is investigate the idea of not only what is it to be wicked, but what is it to be good? And we see Ariana wrestling with that from the very first moment of the film.

I we have to come back to that. I could talk about that for thirty minutes, like because like the original, sorry I'm already going, But like the original, Wizard of Oz is this crystal clear depiction of good and evil. It's a very it's rudimentary Hollywood storytelling. One oh one.

I thought that there was just.

So much in that in that first moment, and when they I also love that when they told the backstory to Alphaba. I was talking to our friend Cherry James about this, who pointed this out to me that the fact that Alphaba was raised by a bear comes from the book, so like right away they're bringing things from the book in that had skipped the musical into the movie adaptation.

And it's so important because I think you can you can listen to the Wicked soundtrack or have only seen the show once and forget that the whole reason that Alphaba becomes the Wicked Witch of the West is because she is an animal rights activist and an eco terrorist. From the very beginning of the movie, they are showing why she becomes such a staunch defender of the animals because when she was totally, you know, abandoned by her

Also, it's like this is plant like the bear raising Alphaba is I'm gonna be I'm going to be like annoyingly like analytical about like this in general. So if you're not into that, this is not the place for you. But like something that's I think I think will be even deepened by the Part two of this story is like a narrative on class and how animals exist in class within this society, and thinking about the bear as like a kind of like, you know, a caretaker for a wealthy governess.

You know, from the very beginning, the only animals we see are you know, in domestic position, yes, serving humans, yes.

And yet when Alphabe is raised in this world, like, animals are still a part of society, and that becomes less and less true by the time we get to like the meat of the story where they're grown up. Yeah, it's just I'm so excited for more parts of the book to be put into the story.

But we will. We will give our thoughts on what we think might be coming in part two. Yes, but for now, let's move on to Shizz Chizz, which I think we I think essentially like I didn't get why they had to enter on a boat, but then I was like, Okay, so this is clearly going to be a theme park ride and I will be there opening day. Oh yeah, that's going to be stunning. And at Shiz we see one of my first problems with this movie, because I do have I have a couple. This is

And this is also something that the Virgins really wanted us to discuss.

Yeah, and it's really exemplified, I think in the Shizz scenes, which are so kind of washed out and backlit. And it also I just don't know why so much of this movie takes place during the daytime and like really bright daytime, like it's it's it's the wizard and I it's popular, it's even defying gravity takes place during the day.

I you know, I'm not like a good I don't think I have a great trust with worthiness on this topic, specifically because I am colorblind, but I think I could personally see things off with like the grading and like the contrast of the light. I like am perfectly happy that I'm fine with the fact that things are happening in the daytime, because to be honest, when things happen at night and movies, I'm like squinting.

I'm like, what the fuck is happening in there? Like, you know, like it's like we can't find a happy medium between this overexposed like really like gray scale color grading and then like the final season of Game of Thrones where you can't see anything on screen and you have to turn the brightness on your TV up all the way.

And a big reason that people online were mad about it is because when the first images of the Munchkin Land were like leaked online or whatever, you see the technic color, and then that technic color is kind of like washed a little bit muted in the movie, Yeah, and it's kind of like the whole like the the one of the most novel, if not the most novel,

I mean the moment where I you know, I was watching the Original Wizard of Oz movie earlier this week and it still gags me every time when Dorothy opens the door into muncheon Land and it suddenly is in technicolor, and the color is beautiful. It's so beautiful to this.

Day, and like and like the thing is, those were old cameras. Those are old ass cameras.

We have the technology, yes, but.

And so so part I was like a little back and forth on this because I personally.

Am not I would. I would, This is.

Very twenty four of me, But I actually would rather something have a kind of point of view in the in the enema, in the editing of the cinema and the enema, then to watch something that is like garishly colorful. I think a lot. This is an insane thing to bring up, but I think a lot about when I first watched Tim Burton's Alice in Wonderland and how a disgusting movie. A disgusting movie. And I thought the color and the animation is so it's disgusting.

It's a huge CGI slop. It's like that meme of name one thing in this photo. Yeah, that is what those.

Movies are so like, I don't know, Like part of me feels like if they had gone full out color with the maximum extent of technology that they had, maybe I would have felt like this was too as you might say, Marvel, you know, to CGI to updated.

I do appreciate that so much of this was practically built that the CGI is I wouldn't say it's used sparingly, but it's used as much as it needs to be used. Yes, and no more. But the overexposure is one of my few problems with the movie, but it really did not disrupt my enjoyment of it. Another easter egg that you spotted. Oh so in this opening scene, you know, Elphaba's coming in.

And cast it over erased. Yeah, there's there's I like, I'm so excited to rewatch it because I feel like the John im Chew of it all and the world building. It's like every single frame has so much in it, and that's just like one of those moments.

Yeah. Then we get to my other one of my other ripes with this film, which is Michelle Yoh wow, wow, look wow. Michelle Yo is an amazing actress, and I will say that some of her choices I don't necessarily disagree with. I think that she really sells how sinister Madam Morble is, and she does that by really taking the character down, making her slower and more menacing. And that's really good except for the fact that Madam Morble is supposed to be this county diva character she supposed

Yeah, so so I did. I did I personally, and this is honestly one of the few things we disagree on when it comes to a wicked But like I did not come out of the film with that take on Michelle Yo. Like I I'm I'm a little bit of a stand I kind of think Michelle Yo can be in anything, and I.

Would like it.

I also personally feel like Madam Morble I was I didn't have never cared about this character before. And because Michelle Michelle Yo is like an Academy Award winning actress, like she lends a flesh to Madam Morble that in my opinion wasn't there before.

And I enjoyed that.

And I also personally like, I'm not gonna complain about like non singer singing, like the kind of talk singing.

I'm gonna complain about it. It was like forty seconds, like but you need those forty sec Yeah, yeah, but like she was, she was singing as good as Jeff Goldbloom. In my opinion, I think Jeff Goldbloom brings his innate Jeff goldbloomness to the part, and I don't think. I think Michelle Ye what she brought. Michelle Michelle Yo was playing Madam Morble as like Marjorie Taylor Green, and I wanted her to and I wanted her to be Sarah Palin.

That's well, no, that well, okay, Marjorie Taylor Green is also a little campy. But but I see what you're saying. I definitely feel, you know, John and Chuo like kind of Michelle Yo kind of said no when when she was first off of the part, she was like, I don't know how to do this, I can't do this, and John, she was right, she was like, no, no.

I know you can. I think it was wrong.

I think that she'll just be in like ever project he ever does. Honestly, I I personally liked what she gave the film, but I one hundred percent agree as you've explained it, I personally am I'm inching toward your slide in the fact that she definitely is in a slightly different movie. She's she she gives more realism.

It's a very restrained performance. It's just a Morrible's supposed to be over the top. She is. She is supposed to be the wicked witch that she is making Alphabet out to Lida.

Really, oh, that's really smart. Did you ever see like the lists of people that like auditioned for every y because Cherylie Ralph did audition.

J Loo was what, my god, I'm so sorry, Well.

Virgins, I hope they didn't like fry your ears right now, But like.

Jlo, that was crazy.

That's crazy crazy, And also like, that's not a rule.

That doesn't seem like a role Jaylo would ever go for. I kind of want to see it. She would have been. I want to see her tape. Okay, we got to keep this moving forward. So I mean, I'm in no rush. Are you in a rush?

No?

But I just want to talk about the Wizard and I right, which is a really it is?

This is so if no one warns the wicked is when like Ari is here the Wizard and I is when Cynthia is here.

And I have to say, you know, we've talked about Cynthia over the past couple of months on this podcast. She has been kind of annoying in the press. I know, the whole my is your pussy green thing was really you know, kind of it definitely soured me towards her. But even though we should just for journalistic integrity, the

One hundred and ten percent. So I also walked into the film with doubts about Cynthia for different reasons, though that were solely based on the trailer, which I think the clips of Cynthia's acting performance, her facial expressions were. I just there were things about the fractions of what we saw that felt hollow or they felt like they

It was she kept doing the like like this, like you were just kidding. But I like the corner of her mouth going upwards, the Mona.

Lisa smile constantly constantly bringing up one corner of her mouth. Anyways, that's a little silly thing what Cynthia.

Does well she does I think she kind of sings out of the side of her mouth a little bit.

Yeah maybe, yeah, yeah, but yeah, that smart was so it was constant throughout the film. You please watch out for it if you go see it. But you know something that I the way Cynthia proved it wrong to me, just as you said, is like in this song. In every song she sings in this movie, she shows off her ability as an actorial singer, Like as a musical a musical theater actress has a completely different task than

A lot of the time, like and she looked sickening, so Alphaba's look she like comes in wearing like head to toe like Archival issimi Aki. Yes, the huntiest boots I've ever seen, Yes, Kanti Kunty Hunty. I would wear her nails when she the outfit that she wears when she has like the long bray down down the middle of her back like that, I would wear that outfit head to toe. I would low key wear everything she wore in this movie, everything she wants except her really ugly nightgown.

Oh yeah, and the next song on the like innocence thing. So I've like, just like I've been thinking a lot about what what I've what I kind of wanted from both of these characters walking into the film, And I think, you know, I had said to you, like Cynthia's Alpha Ba in this movie is very interior. It's very, in

No, Adina's Alphaba is much more snarky, sarcastic, sarcastic. She's very much like emo girl.

Yes, And I think I maybe I think that's what it was, is I kind of wanted the emo well emo girl in a hard edges kind of way, like I almost wanted Elfha, but to have maybe not more agency because that's not the point of this this act, but like more assertion that she knows she's the smartest person in the room and that society has not caught

To see her as this vulnerable, hopeful person who even though she has been beaten down and subjugated her entire life so far, by her family, by the people she lived with. When she's presented with this opportunity, she does let herself believe in it, yes and not, and it makes her inevitable fall or rise, divine gravity like that much more powerful and heartbreaking. And that's really shown off in What Is This Feeling? Honey? You see their two

But the two best friends are characters taken from the book that weren't in the original musical, so the characters taken from the book as Glinda's kind of like bitchy sidekicks. Fanny was a girl in the book and they turned her into a gay man because duh. But yeah, no, this, this song is such a sleigh. I loved everything about it.

And also this Glinda and Alphaba have never been gayer than they are in this movie. And from this number, like the chemistry and the repressed homosexual longing is so evident and it's so fun and I just love this number. I think I.

Can't remember if we talked about this in our like a virgin like Wizard of Oz Wicked episode, But when I watched Wicked or when I even as an adult, I am stupid. I like literally never picked up on the lesbian subtext ever.

That's crazy. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I was reading Glinda Alphabe fan fiction when I was, you know, fourteen.

You were the first person to inform me of the Gelfy ship shipping fandom that I think, I feel personally like the film does such a better job of deepening the connection between these two characters in a way that is like sapphic, in a way that is like platonically romantic, but who knows how long it'll stay platonic.

Yeah, because this movie is about many things. One of them is compet Yeah, about these these women like thinking they need to force themselves into you know, heterosexual desire.

Right, yeah, right, yeah, compulsory head, I didn't realize what

They care about each other.

They don't care about the men at Fierarro.

Fierro is really just something for them to fight over. He is like an externalization of the tension between them. Yeah, because they are more important to each other than these men are.

Yes, yes, and and in that also like they the men I think are more interesting and that this love triangle kind of there's like a cuckolding kind of thing. Like I saw someone on Twitter say that Fierro is like challengers ing like Glenda and Helpaba, which I think is really funny.

Yeah.

I also, well, we got to talk about Bach before we talk about Fiero.

How did you feel about SpongeBob? I think he's so ugly.

Cherry was also talking about how you know, you get just like a touch of SpongeBob in some of these vocals.

You get a little bit of.

Like Nasa, he's oh, Nasa, he's nasty.

I think he's hot. You just think that because he looks trans massed.

I'm not I'm not as sham. I'm I'm not proud to be saying this. I when Ari like home wrecked this man.

She did not. That has we have moved on from that narrative, right right, Sorry, she did not a home wrecked Sorry sorry, what what did she do?

Then? No?

And that's not me challenging. I'm like, actually, this fell in love while he was already in the middle of leaving his wife, and he made the decision. I think the timing was bad, but she she did not home.

Wreck Yeah, thank you for correcting, because I wasn't paying enough attention to the tabloid, the tabloid of it all enough to actually grasp the details. However, my point is like this man was meme to death, and I remember seeing all of these photos and being like, that's the ugliest man I've ever seen, And then when he showed up on screen, I was like, I want to sit on your face so bad. I thought he was so cute. I thought he was I would. I was more attracted to him than I was.

You should be you should be in jail. Okay, you know who I was more attracted to than either of them. Doctor Dilman shot up. Something Bad was the moment that I had pre selected as when I was going to pee during this movie, and I'm so glad I didn't. I held my p and in fact I didn't really have to pee, and I'm glad I didn't because Something Bad, I think is so much better in this movie than

Yeah like he yeah he, And I mean Peter Dinklage like as an actor, like lends such an astuteness, like a prestige to this character, and the stakes of this character are so important to Alphaba and like the engine of the rest of the film. So I just I love you know, how he was done. I would much rather this is crazy, but I would much rather watch a cgi animal than like an actor dressed up as a goat, you know what I mean?

Like sorry, I do think it still could have been a Dina Manzell playing to doctor Dilman, but we will, we will get to her. Also love that just like in like the kind of like.

Uh social hierarchy of this like school and Alphaba as like kind of the the underdog, the one that's like hated by everyone, like the loser.

Yeah, And what is and what is a loser at school to.

Do but like make friends with your history teacher.

Exactly.

That is exactly how this story goes.

And then Alpha believes doctor Dilman's and runs into someone in the woods. A new bombshell has entered the villa, and that is Biero, played by Jonathan Bailey.

And his first action on screen is jumping off a horse mounting a horse in the craziest way. He he he like put if you if He literally like plants his hands on the horse and launches off of it like a fucking rockhead, like like legs back.

Nobody gets off of a horse like this. There's no reason for him to get off a horse of it. I like him to get off of me like that, or onto me like that. I have I have never needed to eat someone's ass more that I have needed to eat Jonathan Bailey, as Fiera's asked, I have always seen the vision with him. But there is just something about a gay guy playing romantically in a musical. It just it always hits right.

Your your tweet really distilled the history very well from y Honestly, Rose said that this is this, this is a lineage, it's a legacy, it's a legacy for a gay man to play a sexy heterosexual romantically in a Broadway musical because there are virtually no straight men in musical theater. And of course that's like how he is sexy. He is sexy because he is attractive to all genders.

Has so he flirts with all genders.

He has vibes with multiple genders, even if it's just like a second on screen.

And like in the press tour there was like Fierro's bisexual. Fierro's bisexual.

I was like, shut the fuck up. Like I was like, I don't know. I was like, don't do that.

Unless they're gonna show Fierro's sucking box clit in the movie.

But the thing is like he but I like, after seeing the movie, I was like he was by and that made his character more interesting. Like he is like the the original, the original portrayal of Fierro, He's kind of just this like Jock. He's like a dumb yeah, and he's really with a heart of gold, and he's a cog in the in the machine of the plot. He's he's not, he's a little inconsequential and and and Jonathan Bailey's fierro like insists on something a little more

Yeah, the way he uses his body was incredible. He was so commanding and sexy and like boyishly charming. His voice sounded great. I mean, the whole Dancing through Life number was so fun. Although again, like it was so backlit, and yeah, I wish it hadn't been. But I thought the parkore was really cool.

The cylindrical like kind of there's we we get a lot of a lot more kind of steam the kind of steam punkification of Wicked in this.

Scene, which I appreciated because it does give Oz a very distinct style and makes it feel like a very specific world that's different from other fantasy worlds like this, you know, integration of technology and fantasy elements, Like it has a very distinct visual style.

And that visual style, the choice to make it like a little steampunk is like textual, Like like the original original Wizard of Oz has so many themes that that translate to America in the Industrial Revolution and the apex of technology and an industry that is kind of overtaking a munchkin land that is overtaking farmers that's overtaking like

The Ozdus ballroom sequence was like I think in some ways is the emotional core of the movie, you know, like putting aside how fun it is with like the animals playing the instruments and stuff. When Alphaba comes in, she has been tricked into coming by Glinda, and so she does this dance to sort of prove that she's like above it. But what Glinda realizes, what Glinda at this point, what she realizes is that she actually is

Yes, like they're full they're going full Meisner, Like the connection is crazy between them. You can you can see that, like when Cynthia cries in this in this moment and in a scene that is like sometimes a little if you like watch a musical, like it's a little silly, like the choreo is like a little silly, and they

It's and they're they're so beautiful. They're each also making a concession, like Alphaba is conceding like she's making she's allowing herself to be vulnerable elf. Glinda is allowing herself to be silly or stupid or like lame, you know,

Oh wait, wait, wait, I'm so sorry. I have to go back real quick, because I completely forgot that the animals like play the instruments in the Ozdesk ballroom service workers exactly, and also like the Ozdesk ballroom in this world is kind of like an underground club.

So it's under the river.

So of course in this underground like you know, DIY party venue, queer cafe. Yeah, we have animals who have been outcast from society as like the primary entertainment, the orchestration, and the reason that this space is fun is like because of the animals, which is so fucking cool.

And you know they've got like a talking sloth sucking dick in the bathroom.

Yeah, for like fifteen bucks of fifteen bucks a minute. No I I and I have to say, I have to call you in here because in this film there is the engine, the ethos of alpha. But and why she makes the choices she make have a lot to do with are up against a social construct of animals should be seen and not heard. And that is exactly

A good movie and that is a bad movie. Both are about class doing this with you again, Catstone Dance is simply a bad movie.

One of the things I'll say about or rather something that that I think the Ozdest Ballroom crystallized for me, at least talking about when you were talking about like, you know this movie totally just watching this justified you know, a two part film, like we get so many scenes, you get to take so much more time, and like the Ozdest Ballroom scene, like the choreo, it's so slow, and I don't think we would have gotten that like emotional Catharsis if we didn't have as much time as

Yes, and yes, And my other major problem with this film minor problem, minor problem, but maybe my biggest of the minor problems is that it uz drag on a bit, especially in this middle section. It kind of SAgs. And it's not that I would cut any scene specifically, it's just that I think it should have been tightened up so much more, because like at the end of every musical number, there's like a five to ten second pause for people in the theater to clap, and you don't need that in a movie.

I didn't even realize that, but that's probably because I was clapping and.

It just doesn't have the pace that a musical does, because in a musical you have to keep the audience engaged every second, otherwise they will lose their suspension of disbelief that they are buying into to be watching this happening on stage, and I think some of that energy should have been brought to the film. So the pacing was off for me. I really felt the two hour and forty minute runtime. But did you be I didn't, you did. But it's a it's a it's a minor gripe.

I popular h I actually think if we look at what happened to Chicago, if we look at what happened in Dream Girls, I actually really think she could win it. I think that both of their nominations for for the Oscars are secured a locked, but I do think ari could win that.

She certainly has the campaign power because this is the biggest movie and they will put so much money into campaigning, and it's it is the it is the movie of the year.

Like I think it's I think I personally feel like it will be bigger than Gladiator, like by by marginally, but like I think that people are going to be talking about Wicked a lot longer than they're going to be talking about Gladiator.

I just I don't see her winning an Oscar for it. Maybe for part two, who knows. But Popular, Popular or was so perfect. It really was the moment when Ariana stopped referencing the Glinda's who had come before her and made the role her own. She in this movie. There's not a second that she's on screen that she's not using her time, that she is not fully invested in the character, that she's not making really intentional choices, that she's not active and activated, you know, like her comedy,

Yes, there's even I can't remember what riff it is, but there's a there's a moment where she goes like a little like she does like a second long kind of Ari riff, or it's not even it's an Ari riff, but it's like a pop riff, you know what I mean?

Like, Yeah, I don't mind the rifts so much in this song, but I think in the movie as a whole, there was a little too much riffing.

Which I disagree with. I warmly welcomed all of the riffing. I not a novel thing to say. Ari was to me the most captivating performance in this film. I, as you said, could not take my eyes off of her. The entire film Popular is a perfect exemplification of that.

Used, So I wouldn't say it's more an homage than an impression, right, Yes, it's an homage.

But also if you know Ari, like she is that girl, Like she saw this musical when she was ten years old and it imprinted on her. And when she was ten, that was when she started preparing for this role.

You know what I mean. It's a lifetime. It's a role of a lifetime.

And it really shows throughout the film in this and in this song that she was able to perfectly balance what was an homage to Kristin Chennowitz Glinda enmeshed with Ari, who is a true genuine theater faggot with a capital F, like she is in her own private life going through a rack of clothes and going you know like she

Like scurrying behind the scene and.

You hear her a little heels cluck, like those are choice, Like, those are beautiful choices between the directing and ari that. I just I was so I could not take my eyes.

Off of her. No one could have played this part but her, I agree. Sorry, not Lady Gaga. Not No Gaga was supposed to be Alphaba. Oh right, we're right. Wait there was Amanda Seyfred was right in the running, and that would have been great. I think she's a little too old. I read like Katy Perry auditioned. That's crazy crazy, it is not a woman's.

But yeah, she she she proved everything about herself in this song. I just I will, I will not stop listening to it. When I was a kid, this was my favorite song in the musical.

It wasn't mine, but it like almost is in the movie. So I think of popular is the part of the movie that SAgs a little bit for me, Like from popular to one short day, I like, it's like I don't remember much from it, which is how I know,

And that's quickly followed by another easter egg, which is when Alphabet gets on the bike and she's miss gulching yes, and they put the lion cub who is going to be the cowardly lion into the basket and the and and the lion like pokes out of the basket in the exact same way.

And they also even use a little bit of the do Do in the score. Oh my god, it's a very very like subtle moment. The scene between Fear and Albaba. I thought Jonathan Bailey and Cynthia Rievo had great chemistry.

Which is honestly, you would not I was not ready to believe in that no offense. But yeah, no, I I really you you you said previous that I'm not that Girl is kind of a dud of a song.

It's a it's a bit of a snooze. It was in the musical, so I'm fine with it being that in the movie, and Diynthia made that song so much better in my opinion. It's a it's a bit of a skip for me. Wow, But it always has been, so I don't think it's the fault of the movie.

But the thing is, tell me that when you were not a teeny little baby, you would not like sit alone in your room and think Hen's touch.

I didn't. It's not in silence. It's not also the song that really hits I actually I actually prefer Glinda's reprise of it in act too. Oh interesting, Okay. Then we then Alphaba and Glinda go to the Emerald City and we go into you know, the final act of the movie, which I think the like the last forty minutes of this movie are like brilliant. It's Stune Ralli King from start to finish. I love the design of the Emerald City. It really is like visually different from

Instead of it being the monochromatic Emerald City, it's like many different shades of green and then like a pop of yellow, a pop of blue like it. It feels more lived in, and it also feels like the book. Honestly, it feels like like old school in a really good way.

One Short Day has always been one of my favorite numbers from the show, and it was turned up to

I so it is such seopled fan service. I'll, I know this is so un fun. But like this this part of the film, I don't I don't want to change it. I don't want to edit it. I don't want to take it out. But it was like totally separate, like they are Idna and Kristin, like they were not characters, you know what I mean.

But that's fine to me.

But I but I almost will it's so meta, but I well, yeah, I like that their their function in this is to literally be a part of the Ossian propaganda, right, the erasure of a mythology, uh, the rasure of the the of like why the wizard? How the Wizard came into power. There's also another easter egg in their original in their new song where uh, Jeff Goldbloom says oh o maha, which is like where the Reserve is from, right, and.

We get to see each of them with their new counterpart, which is beautiful. But the handover the mouth, it's so funny. It's like it's ridiculous, and like, I will agree, it does take you out of the movie a little bit, but it's in a way that I want to be taken out of the movie.

Yeah, I think for for us, for the consumers that we are, Like there are people that are seeing this movie that have never seen Wicked. There are people online that didn't know Wicked was a musical, like that's great, that's crazy.

That's crazy to me, And I'm like, what the fuck are you talking like the Wizard of Are you dumb?

Yeah?

I mean I'd be curious to know how other people, like people that are not die hard Wicked or Broadway Stands like feel about that cameo.

I think it's so obvious, like there might as well be a neon sign hanging upon that says this is a cameo. Y.

Yeah, which sorry to back to this cameo, but for me and I have to be fucking real with you, Stephen Schwartz was the doo doo kaka of this movie. I was infuriated, infuriated because I you know, I'm not a standstand I didn't realize it was Stephen Schwartz. No one told me, I don't know what this man looks like.

I don't care.

So when you have a banger of a song, the most extravagant maximalist, Baslerminian like vision of the Emerald City coming to a climax, giving us these beautiful moments with like Christian and Idina and then coming to a close in the original soundtrack where someone says the Wizard will see you now, and yet it's Stephen Schwartz, just hollowly kind of saying the Wizard will see you now.

And I loved it, and I'm sorry, but.

He he had the privilege of playing a character who is a queen in like the original Wizard of Oz, you know what I mean, Like the the gatekeeper with the kind of broom for a mustache.

Who was played by the actor who plays the worst.

Right girla like he's such a zany can't be a like unforgettable part of that film, and Steven's.

Wortze just kind of threw it away, and I opinion, I thought he was great whatever. I was happy to see him kindly disagree. So then Alphaba and Glinda meet the Wizard, which you know, the final skip, the final skip, Sentimental Man, this song sucks. That is when you should go for your pee break. I think this soley is the song kind of boring. But then there's a whole like dance break after where the Wizard like does kind

I think, yeah, this, I think this is the worst song. I mean, I didn't not enjoy. I still enjoy myself because I love Jeff Golbloom, but yeah, I think that more than something bad, more than I'm not that girl. I think Sentimental Man is like so like not interesting.

But then after that, the scene where Madame Morrible comes in, Alphabe gets the Grimmery, which literally looks like a children's book. It's like giving good night Moon.

It's very origami, but that's like just steampunk it all.

She there there is this like herculean task which in the span of like a two to three minute scene, Alphabet has to realize that that the Wizard is a fraud, realize what he's doing to the animals, lose all of the hope she's ever had for her future.

Her entire life completely changing.

And then decide to become this rebel anarchist. And it is a tall order for a very short scene. But I think Cynthia Arrivo does a really good job acting that journey, and you were there with her on every step of the way, and you understand how she gets from point A to point B, which I think is a very tall order. It's devastating.

Like this scene for me is like why I'm like she has the nom like she is the alphaba, like it is. It is like the stakes of it are carried by her and we haven't even gotten to defying gravity yet.

Like it's so devastated.

And also like the I love how growth, the growth, how grotesque the transformation of the monkeys was, because in the original Wizard of Oz, the monkeys are supposed to be are the are horrifying. I was terrified of them as a child, like and when they're like, you know, in pursuit of her and breaking through the windows, like it's horror, it's a horror, like it's really really good.

I also think this this is where, like this leaning into defining gravity is where we really see that tension of what I brought up earlier, which is we're not just examining what it is to be wicked, we're examining what it is to be good. And we see how Glinda is so like tied to the system, tied to power, that even though she has seen hard evidence that what the people are doing is wrong, she still thinks that to be aligned with what is perceived as good is the same thing as actually being good.

Oh that is wow. I love the way you put that. That's like, but it's the beating heart of the story. It's this story, as you said, of like the activist versus the institutionalist right and the institutionalist and the activists both kind of having like this perilous relationship to what they they previously believed in what they believe now and the choices they then make and and then eventually split in.

Having it's like and the realizations, you know. So now we're at divine gravity, the final sequence of the movie, and it's so heartbreaking because you have in this moment these two women who love each other so much, maybe just as friends, maybe not I think, I think not, these two women who love each other. One of them wants to disrupt the system. One of them wants to uphold it.

And you see, maybe not even wants to, but just like this is what she she has no choice but to hold the system. And Alphaba asked Glinda to come with her, and you see, not not necessarily that Glinda wants to, but that she wants to want to. Yes, she because they are both in this moment discovering what

Yes, they're each discovering this inner truth of themselves that they learn puts them forever at odds with each other. And it's so heartbreaking and beautiful and they both play it so well. Literally, like they're standing at the tower at the top of this the Wizard's Tower, and Alphabe is looking Aglinda and saying.

Together, we could be bad bitches. And just as you said, like it, I personally like my original. When I first watched the musical, I thought it was much It was not as complex as what how is portrayed here.

It was just like.

Glinda chooses to be an institutionalist. What Ari does in this scene is do exactly what you said. She wants to want it. You can see how embattled she is inside. You can see that she wants so badly to support her friend, and yet she's not programmed that way. Yeah, that's it's not how she was raised. And I loved also, like I can't remember if this was in the original musical or not, but like Albaba asks her, she asked,

So the defying gravity sequence is a lot longer in the movie than it is in the show, as it should be, and as it should be, the stakes are really ramped up. They give it. They they do sort of marvel fy it in a way with the whole hot Air Balloons sequence, not in a bad way. Not in a bad way, because I do understand, because you again, like it's justifying this being the end of a movie

She she comes down like she when she's like, you know, if you care to find me, look to the motherfucking Western sky and you think she's proved her point because she flies off and she sings some more, and she goes, let me just turn this car around and make the point one more motherfucking time.

It is.

It's I was kind of giggling because she does kind of do like two or three like laps that way, but every single time, because the song has so many crescendos, so satisfying, it feels like that the encore. It feels like an encore. It feels like a big, huge fuck you to everything that she has like withstood up into this moment, which is exactly what the song is supposed

My god, I was gagged. I gagged. And then the movie ends with Alphaba zooming away. We have a year before part two comes out. I need to see the movie five more times. I'm seeing it again tomorrow. Oh yeah, I'm so excited. Well, I really really loved it. Yeah, it was stunning. Okay, Part two, here's some of my

Well, also, like it's worth saying, like I mean, I don't know. I obviously kept being like, what if Ali Stoker was in this role. But like, I the thing about Nessa in the original musical, like she's such an afterthought,

But what I think we'll mostly see in Part two. What I'm expecting is because Part two essentially runs concurrently with the plot of The Wizard of Oz, I think we'll see more direct references and homages to that story. Maybe we'll see Dorothy Moore, because she's not in the show, She's really only featured as a silhouette and a voice

I So for the visions that are unaware, I think you're the one that told me this that the second act is kind of famously like lackluster.

Yeah, it has. It has some bangers I love, Thank goodness. Uh, their bridges you cross, you didn't know you cross them to you cross is maybe maybe my favorite like line of music on the whole show. No good Deed is like really great and uh, as long as your mind is really sexy and sensual for good it is going to have us all you know weeping. Yeah, I well.

And also if the virsions don't know, it's like it's a in the musical, it's a big time jump, so it jumps years and years and and all of this kind of ossy and propaganda has been disseminated, and like Munchkin Lenen, everybody has been like, you know, brainwash, brainwashed whatever, like just mediafied into believing that Alpha but is the ultimate evil public enemy number one. Glinda is this politician

Who knows, Maybe we'll get a sex scene, Maybe we'll see if alphabus pussy is green.

Well the as long what is that as long as as long as your isn't that a sex sce a sex scene?

I mean it's a love scene. Well there's they're they're like hooking up in a forest. And you said, I think we discussed the see and at the end she goes for the first time, I feel.

Wicked, right, I think you said this in our Wizard of Oz episode of your But like the sex scenes in the book are like kind of eclipsed. It's nothing graphic, right, but there's no it's but apparently this is where like the intersex thing, Like, yeah, it's like from Fiera's perspective, he like has some commentary about Alphaba's like genitalia. He sees something between her. There's literally like two or three references in the book.

I think when he says like he sees like a scar hor something might have been removed.

What Like that's crazy. Well because like from the very beginning.

I was actually listening to the first chapter of the Wicked audiobook recently, and in the first chapter in the prologue, the Witch is like following, you know, like the the Fabulous four around and they're all kind of like gossiping about her, and they're like, I've heard that she is a hermaphrodite. I heard she was she's with a married man. I heard she is a married man.

What.

Yeah, they transvestigate her, they do. They transvestigate her.

That's I also didn't know that in the book, Glinda and Alphabet kiss.

Yeah. It's so oh sapphic wow. I mean Gregor Gregory maguire is gay and so like the books are very gay. I love that. I've never read the book. I think I might have to. It's very dense. I read it for the first time when I was in middle school, and like I didn't even know that it was becoming a musical. I just saw it in a bookstore and I saw the Witch on the cover and was like, I need to read that because the Wizard of Oz was like my favorite thing in the world.

Yeah, I think I would love to see more more built out in the I was gonna say animal rights activism, but like just the the social narrative like in this story. I would love to see more.

Yeah, I would love to see Alfa but actually doing something like I would love to see her because in the in the book, she when she has this relationship with Fierro, she has become this sort of like underground eco terrorist who they like somewhere in the Emerald City. I think, so maybe we'll see more of like her activist journey. I would love for her to bomb. And there's also a part where Madam Morrible dies in the book and then Alphabe like bludgeons her dead body.

What.

Yeah, I cannot wait to read this. I yeah, I'm like, I'm like, I hope it. I mean, they could only be so dark.

You reminded me.

Yesterday that the Children's It has to be PG in order for them to make the maximum amount of money. But it is like a really dark like this is the latter half is a really dark part of the story. I'm really curious like your theories on Dorothy, like what you like. So I was like actually thinking about it on the bike right here, and yesterday you were like, I think it could be like a sickening cameo, or

I don't want that to happen.

I think that is what's happened with Perfection. No, you really can't, but I think that that is what's happening.

That should not happen. I agree with you.

Unless no, unless their Wizard of Oz is PG. Thirteen because the Frank L.

Baum story is bomb L L. Frank Baumb It's dark as fuck. Like it's dark if you want, but if you want a dark adaptation, watch Return to Oz. It already exists.

Did you also see that Mombi was mentioned in this.

That's one of the professors.

That's crazy, like need a momby cameo.

Wow, So how long?

Yeah?

How long? Recordings? Having a long time? Holy fuck? An hour and forty four minutes. Honestly, y'all, this this is longer than what we recorded yesterday. You're welcome, and it's better and it's better, yeah, really better. We hope that you liked this very thorough analysis of Wicked. I'm sure that as we both maybe see it again, keep listening to the soundtrack, we will have more thoughts. I would imagine that we'll get a trailer for part two, probably

You will start peeing now and you won't stop next November.

I am gagged.

Virgins. Please get in the comments, get in the chat, tell us everything. This is our this is the most important episode we have made the like a virgin Patreon thus far.

Okay, so we recorded this twice for you for you and I have fun, had so much. I mean, I talk about we good first, Like I said, I was going to talk about it, but I'm too tired. Like I could get into a whole other.

Section where we're talking about like constructions of class in the original like l frank Baum, Wizard of Oz and how they've like been brought into like they skipped the musical and are maybe being looped back into this wicked story. But you know, maybe we'll have follow ups next episode.

Until then or if you carefund me looks in the Western Side