Juicy Mangos Fat and Well Fed (feat. Jacq Frances)

my ex husband. If there's one thing the film The First Wives Club taught me, it's like you could never have enough Jupiterman your lips. Absolutely, there is no maximum. The limit does not exist. And today on the pod we have Jack Francis, the artists formerly known as Jack This Tripper. If you've ever followed her on Instagram, We're so excited to talk to her about all things First Wives Club, plus some tan in Son, Coyote, Ugly, and

other other faves of ours. Jack is an amazing artist who is going on tour by the way, check out her tour Divorced in Paradise on her website. And I don't know if there's a better person to discuss a truly queer cannon film. I mean not even queer canon. It's like kind of bag cannon. I don't know if that if that or maybe divorcee canon is what it

actually is. Um. I also think this film is lesbian cannon because of its like iconic bar scene, and today we're going to reclaim it for more than just sis gays, because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's tapes. I'm Rose, damn you and I'm Fran Toronto. Hi listen. We had a bit of an ordeal setting up our microphone guard. I thought that would never happen. Oh my god, Fire Island. You know, we're on island time. We are on island time. That's

excuse everything that happens. No, but like what just happened. I could do alone in my apartment extremely easily. But here, it's just I was possible issue. It was a ten minute or deal. Well, okay, so I we need to set the scene for the Virgins in a couple of different ways. So we are currently on vacation. Yes, we're on Fire Island. And if you've heard of it, a

gorgeous transgender home yes, truly perfect. We're in a beautiful vacation rental and we are recording, are you know the opening of this week's podcast episode from Gay Paradise Gay Paradise, We also do both happen to be very stone, which was we decided that this is what we were Yes, well, I had therapy right before this, and we decided to use the fifteen minutes between ending therapy and starting this

podcast recording to get really really hot. Maybe a little more than I anticipated, but I was not expecting this. I only had like like three puffs three max. Yeah, and I I don't know, I feel like but we're in a good stay right now, and this has been a wonderful vacation right yes, um we have listen, We've been having so much fun. Um. The past week has been amazing, not just because we've been on vacation, but because we did our first ever live show. It was incredible.

I mean, like, the night was beyond the drag. Performers and Honey were so good. They were amazing, but also we were the stars of the show. Yeah, well know, the real stars of the show were the virgins who

came out. It was that, I know, I know, it's corny, but we know on this podcast that I do get a little corny sometimes, and you know, listen, we record this podcast, like obviously we're recording together each us on Fire Island right now, but we mostly record this audience, like the three of us either in a studio on

zoom and we have so much fun doing it. But getting to do it in a room full of people, with all those performers who were with us, like with everyone who works on this podcast involved was so cool and like it came to life in a way that I was not prepared for but was really really excited and moved by. Yeah, and it was also really nice to like decompress with everyone after and to just like meet all of you and yeah, I don't know, I want to do more. Yes, I love the Virgins. The

Virgins are so cool. Everyone was really well dressed at our show. The vibes were immaculated, were immaculate. So tell us where you want us to come or bring you want to go on tour, So like get your college to bring up money. Um, we're downt We're available. Anyways, we do have at least a little culture to catch up on, because I mean, excuse me, I must coming down with something. I think we have Minions fever rows.

Oh my god, someone got the doctor. We have Neither Frand nor myself have ever seen a Minions movie, not a single one. I don't I've never seen anything in that even cinematic universe. I guess that they originate from just Despicable Me. Okay, um, same, But it feels like the name on everybody's lips is going to be Minions. Minions for sure, And let me tell you, we need to be sent more memes. We've been getting some memes from y'all about Minions, but like, I feel like we

could be you know, I need so many more. And I really appreciate everyone who's been tagging us in Minions memes. Really appreciate the support. We love Minions memes, but there needs to be more. I don't ever want to know who the Minions are, what they do, what the context is. Like, I don't think I'm going to see the movie. I don't think I'm ever going to see any Minions content.

But it's that's not what it's about. It's about vibes. Yeah, it really is, and it's about you know, let me tell you this soundtrack was impeccable produced by Our King and Jack Antonov, which like, I'm so glad he did it, but he really needs a break. He should be in Fire Island with us right now because the girls have been running him ragged. But listen, girl, like this soundtrack is Jack Antonov's best work since what his last Taylor album Black, I don't even I feel like he really

popped off with this. Very well curated and produced. If you haven't listened to it, It's lots of covers of seventies songs like Carolaid, Polycheck does Bang Bang My Baby, Caliucus, Diana Ross does a song with tam Impala which is insane. St Vincent covering Funky Town that one, Oh, and um Tierra Wag Tierra Whack is actually one of my favorite covers. It really is a culture. We've been playing it on blasts. We have been bumping the Minion soundtrack by the pool

at least once a day. I actually don't think we listened to it yesterday, which does hurt my heart a little bit. Yeah yeah, but we'll listen today. We'll listen today. I have seen more Minion pussies this week then I ever expected to in my life and I'm embracing that. Yeah. Yeah, look, this is this is our culture. Now, this is this is what we come to talk about. This is a minion We are minions advocates. Yes, we are allies to the minion community. It's l g B t q M

now truly. On this vacation, I have had taken I have I've scooped my brain fully out of my skull to just be no thoughts, had empty girl there and that's been working really well. Oh yeah, oh yeah. We're now on day fine of of a weeklong vacation and you know it's out. Yes, very much. So different people here today. Okay, there was something else you wanted to do. We want to talk about Stranger Things a little bit. I mean we've only watched the first episode. Yeah, we

watched episode eight. We still haven't watched episode nine because it is the length of the movie Avatar. So long. We'll get around to it, but so far, I really liked the first part. Spoiler spoilers if you watch Stranger Things. Spoiler I'm glad that Papa is dead. I also wish we didn't have to call him Papa. It's really awkward. It's really not right, but like the drama was kick it like it was really like I loved every minute

of it. Yeah. I also loved when they were at the guns store and everyone in town was just they're buying the guns. You're like, there was the lesbian moment. I hope that gets resolved to have a feeling that and with an em is going to come back and she does actually want to be with Robin. Also renew and with an ease show my God on the records saying and with an evening, I could say it now on convergive. I really liked it. I'm so excited to watch more. Um, I find the Russia plot very boring,

and every time we're there, I disagree. Let's say, back to Hawkins, I don't know, you look great, but I'm just not you know the I love Hopper, I love his potline. I think the Russia thing is so off the rails, and I think that's all. I think it's amazing because I think it embraces how crazy it is. But I was also going to say I prefer those scenes over the gay scene that we got, Like what

did you think? My god? Okay, so it took like I don't think everyone who were watching it with realize that that was Will like confessing his feelings about Mike, but using the language of talking about how Levin feels about him, Like that's oh gay to be talking about your feelings, but in a pretend way. Um, I don't know if we're going to get more than that. Yeah, I really, because where would it lead? You know, I think he's going to die. No, who do you think

is going to die? Because obviously some people are gonna die. I think, Okay, I don't think it's going to die, but I think something about him being in the upside down and like his connection the monster they was gonna come back. They would kill the gay one. He's going to turn because look, we already have one evil twin Vecna, and now we need another. When we need there always has to be too. It's like six in Star Wars.

There are always to master and apprentice, and one will kill the other the rule of the two or hem rhins, there's always too. Who else do you think is going to die? I mean I don't. I didn't really predict, to be honest, I think your prediction of Max I think is also. Yeah, I think Max is she's going to be running up that hill to make a deal with God sooner rather than later. Yeah, or at least. But the only thing is they're kind of setting it

up that way, so it might be too obvious. Well that's how I feel about Steve dying, because everyone is theorizing that Steve is going to die. But like the Netflix literally put it on their billboard like Pratty for Steve or something, so to me, that means he's not gonna die, because they would not, like, I just don't think it would be it's too obvious. But you know, like the Duffer Brothers really like to play into tropes,

which which one Steve the main character. Steve's the with the hair, the one who we saw at um at Um fig Oh my god. One time we were having dinner at Figro Bistro, which is where celebrities. It's a restaurant you should go to if you either want to like sit and people watch, or if you want to if you need some like affirmation that you're wearing a cute look you want to walk through everyone dyning, that's a good place to go. Also, they have incredible steak tartar.

But we were having dinner there at one time, and um, the guy who plays Steve was inside, um with some hot girl. I honestly can never remember any of their names. For me, it's always like will like Will to Billy, Billy, Billy too, Yeah, this is the one with the one with the long billy too, and then and then you know that but he's not as hot as Billy Yeah. And then there's Hopper guy, and then there's one writer

w is her character name. It should all just be every Stranger Things character should be, not oneonah one, not when I she's so good every time, I want her to be in more things. Though. She made that m rom com with Keanu Reeves a couple of years ago that was like it was such because it was like their back baby, and then literally no one including me saw it. Oh that's so sad. Well, I mean I would watch more Things if she would be more Things, because I think she Stranger Things is amazing for her,

and I think Stranger Things is amazing because of her. Well, that's definitely the reason it was put on everyone's radars. Yes, because she lent her name to it and that, But but I also feel like she doesn't need to be entrapped to the stranger, Like I just need her in more movies and and Prestige TV. You know what I mean. I hope, I hope she's making a lot of money. I'm sure. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure she is. I'm sure she is there anything else? What has been your

favorite part of the trip so far? Rose? Hanging out with everyone at the house, Like dinners together have been really lovely. I think people when they think of Fire Island and immediately obviously you think like parties, vodka, SODA's, you know, going to tee, like a lot of sex

or like whatever. And like this trip has been I mean, sorry to say, like so wholesome, Like it's been so beautiful and so community driven, and it's been incredible in a way that I have never experienced on this island because you know, like this island is like really made for very specific kind of queer people that don't include us, that don't include us. And you know, I've always come to this island like as a guest of other people or like someone just like figuring it out, and that's

been amazing. But to come here and have a house and like like Fran who really like put all this together to have really curated it in such a way that, you know, like making space for people who would not usually have a space like this out here. All of us doing it together has been so fun, Like I love being the freak cows. Yeah, we are the freak

cows and the poppy juice houses out here too. They always like cycle fun people through and we've been like partying together and having late nights and cooking gorgeous dinners ribs. Laurel is making lobster tonight. What yes fuck I got? She brought lobster tail. Babe, It's gonna be well. I made the eggs this morning. Um. France, okay, wait Rose made a gorgeous pie yesterday. Um that you should maybe

we should start doing recipes. I won't, I won't. But Fran made a peach basil and something blueberry pie yesterday. It was chef's kiss and I stuck a bunch of candles into it and surprised Rose with her on birthday was my birthday pie A week early, A week early? Um?

What else has been nice? Um? You know yesterday we were on the beach and I was sitting with two other trans people have like very quickly we started talking about trauma and you know, to be doing that next to a body of water is I love it surrounded by a bunch of a bunch of faggots, but like a safe distance away. Yeah, it's been great. I love Fire Island. I want to come back every summer forever. It's just like the movie. And this house is like

Nancy Meyer's level. Caucasian is like so gorgeous. I I put on matching linen set the other day and walked around here while everyone was up the beach and definitely felt like, you know, the protagonist and something's got to give, and something's got to be giving. One of my favorite part about the trip, honestly, Rose has been like putting on cute little fits and walking to the pantry. Yeah, you do it. You like always look adorable, so you

all you always come to start. Okay, you've start, You've been serving, We have been, we have been. You're the most popular girl, Well I'm I'm the most popular doll. We're the most popular dolls in the pantry. I love changing like five times a day. Yeah, it's been incredible, just doing little variations on the same outfit to swim suits today. Fran has been doing a lot of whale tales. Oh yeah, a lot of a lot of you know, thong in the afternoon and as you know, a more

modest speedo in the evening. I wonder if anyone is currently like listening to our podcast somewhere on this island. Probably not Alo on this island, you say, we've also been Also, we've also discovered our mutual affection for the Broadway musical Once on This Island done a particular line from it, which like this, Oh find the tree, I'll come back with an goes juicy fat and well bed she's cutting us off. I hope you include this, TB. I hope you include the way that you silenced again silent.

We will not be silent. Were you silent or were you silent when it comes to Phoebe being our producer? We were silent, and I swear to God you better include all of this. CB. I want everyone to know. For the audience you can't see me right now, I'm wearing a Versaci inspired tennis skirt, forty four spray time um yellow, a F one's a future for Sacchi coat and diamond tennis bracelet. Yes, the diamond tennis aunt Janet, Can I tell you the story about so my aunt?

Um she is. I'm inspired by her a lot. She's really free spirited, super athletic, really artistic. I just wanted to travel and see the world. She was in the Las Vegas airport and she was running to catch her flight and she was dragging her roly suitcase. But something was stuck in her suitcase, and she was like, what the funk is this? And she looks down and there's a diamond tennis bracelet stuck in the wheel of her suitcase.

And she picks it up and she takes it to airport security and she's like, hey, I found this, UM, here's my phone number. If anybody calls looking for it, I would like them to have it. And no one ever called a family And she went skiing in the sky seven years ago last week and uh I and I got and I took this with me. So and you know, it's crazy. I never started wearing it until I moved to l A because I wasn't worth I was.

I struggle with worthiness a lot, and I was always like saving the tennis bracelet for a special occasion or something, and I was like, no, every day is a special occasion put on that bracelet. That is the power of jewelry. I do think very nicely leads us into what we're talking about today, because this kind of bracelet, to you is what the pearls are to the women of the First wi The pearls which are kind, which are really the inciting It's well, the inciting incident of the film

is soccer Channing committing suicide. But the pearls with with the fantastic voice over acting. It was such an interesting choice to read. But they used all of their voices in the in the flashback. Yeah it is. It is so for anyone who doesn't know. The First Wives Club is a film about a bunch of women who have been left by their husbands and decided to get revenge. That is the basic cremise as played by Goldie Hawn, Bette Midler, Diane Keaton and then the soccer channing soccer

the scene. But yeah, you're right, and that the prologue of the movie where they're all you know, young when they meet at college and form their lifelong friendships. Um, the actresses do dub all the younger actors and it is extremely uncanny. Yeah, it's it's it's an interesting choice. Was this movie like important to your childhood? Um, like when did it come into your life? Or like what

were the what are the formative elements of it? Honestly, I love I've never really connected with romantic partnerships as a plot line that I really was drawn to in film and narrative. Like I I'm much more interested in ambition and friendship as like things that drive a plot. And this movie was all about like girlfriends coming together

to support each other, sisters are doing it for themselves. Yes, and the wardrobes were great, and that they all went off to do different things and then came back together. That just seemed like a real fantasy to me. And um, you know Eliza with Berkeley, isn't it as as a new wife? I just I just I think just the story of them all coming together and at the end having their community center and then wearing power suits and singing at the end, I was like, that's the happy

ending I wanted my life. My happy ending is friendship. My happy ending is community and connecting with my girlfriends and supporting each other. And that was honestly one of the first movies where I saw that as an opportunity as something that was possible as a happy ending where they didn't drive off the cliff at the end. Yes, one of my favorite movies. It's one of my favorite movies as well. And I love the ending because I think the ending was a really bold choice. But like

I like happy endings, yeah, me too. I also like similarly, like I have a hard time latching onto like you know, romance plot lines, and like for the engine of this movie to be revenge is very like that is my tea. Honestly. We were just talking about The Northman, that Nicole Kinman movie that came out, and the whole the engine of that entire movie is revenge, like Crystal Clear, and I was just locked into a movie that I normally would not be, you know, concerned with, because as revenge as

a concept I think is very amazing. But also in revenge movies, like I think you eventually have to reckon with what comes after revenge, which I think is very much the end of this movie, because they realize, you know, kind of at the last minute, that just getting revenge on their husbands is not enough. They actually want to do something that helps the world. They're paying it forward

and how it brought them together. You know, this challenge that they were all facing, and they also they were all suffering in silence, right, they were all getting together. I mean like I'm fine, I'm fine. In reality, everybody was really struggling and needed support and getting together with your girlfriends and having a moment, a really staggering moment two realize that, like, hey, I'm going to be vulnerable and share something that I am not proud of or

that makes me uncomfortable or that I'm ashamed of. And

and then everybody share something similar. Well, that's one of my favorite parts of the movie is you know, so they go to the funual, they go to stoccer Chan funeral and have brunch afterwards, and they're all kind of telling these like spinning these bullshit you know, stories about their lives, and you know, after a couple of Bloody Mary's, the truth comes out and they realize they're all fucking miserable and decide to team up and do something about it.

And who hasn't had that experience of like, you, even even with the people you're closest to, you want to spin, You want to present the best version of yourself. Um, but usually when you finally let that guard down and they're like, Okay, actually, everything fucking sucks right now. That other person, if they're really a good judy, they usually are going to meet you halfway and be like, yeah, my life fucking sucks right now too. Yeah. And I had a moment exactly like that that strengthened me to

make some really significant changes in my life. What was it? I was um at dinner. It was like a COVID dinner in New York outside coldest ship. We're all wearing right and UM, a couple of and you know my art camp collective. It was a couple of us and we were getting ready to go wheat pasting. We like

go and put up art at night, like park. It's fun do art, make crimes make Yeah, and U and one of the girls was talking about UM, a challenge she was having with this chick she was seeing, And it turned out it was the same problem we were all having, and we had never We've been friends for two years and none of us knew that we all had the same challenge with our partners. And now I'm divorced and I hadn't I hadn't left my marriage yet.

So and like everybody has challenges, right, it doesn't really matter, Like everybody has challenges, they're they're pretty normal. I think normalizing our problems is really important and not stigmatizing them and not blaming, just being like, yeah, this is a challenge and like you can fight through it, or you can you can remove yourself from the situation. You have options. But it's it's nice to talk about the options with your girls. I mean I exclusively have to workshop things

with my girls. There are things that like obviously my therapists can help me with, but like it's like, no, my girls are going to give me the real, real because therapists, I mean I know that there are like you know that that's actual professional reasons why you can't just tell me what to do because but like therapists just don't tell you what to do sometimes sometimes you I need a therapist to be a little prescriptive. I have a similar problem with mine and that she is

more of a sounding board. And like my therapist, my therapist is really good at being that person who is saying, I'm an objective voice telling you that the thing that you're thinking about your life is not crazy, You're not blowing it out of proportion, and I want to give you the tools to deal with it, but sometimes I want to say, like, can you just tell me what I should do in this situation? Also, I need my friends,

and your friends can. But also I do find like you have to find that balance with your friends because I don't always want every conversation I have with my friends to be processing to be talking about trauma. She's talking about me. I have that girl I'm talking about how I show up to our friendship. I don't always want to show up to my friends and be like I'm going to spend the next hour that we're talking

talking about everything that's going on in my life. You know, we should, that should be part of it, but it doesn't always need to. Well, there's also a very big difference between coming to your friends because you want to vent and coming to your friends because you want a problem solve. Because like, if you come to me, I'm not just gonna let you vent unless you tell me

that that's what you need. But like, if you come to me to complain about something, I will hold space for it very quickly, and then I'm gonna be like, Okay, so what's the game plan let's do this. And I not everyone wants that, you know, like not everyone. Sometimes people just want to externally process and that's okay too. Something I unfortunately have this like logic mechanism in my brain that can't turn off. You do, but you can

turn it off. Can. I have this problem a lot with my mother where I go to her and it kind of is like maybe a little similar to Diane Keaton's relationship with her mother in the movie. I go to my mom and I want to vent about what's going on with me, and what I want from her is her to go, oh no, sweetie, that awful. I'm so sorry. That sucks. But my mom is like, well, here's what you should do, here's the plan. How do

we spend this? Like and I just sometimes have to say to her, I, please don't do that to me right now. I just want you to like do the whatever. Like conversation version is of like stroking my hair and it's all going to be okay, yeah, And I'm like you, I like, I'm like, okay, we're going to mood board this. Yeah, yeah, We're going to make our well for me. It's and this is what First Wives Club about. It was like, yes, you convent, but creativity is healing, having a project, a

thing to do. If it's revenge, but it's like it's especially you know what's funny because I so not a memory of like ruining their ex husbands lives through their project to me, the remaining Like, yes, it was kind of the initial motivation, but it was really all of them finding purpose and work together. And they also knew that their husbands were corrupt, Like they weren't doing something showing who were just like fine, they were just giving

them a taste of the Yes, it's very satiated. One of them was not cruel, it's just how it is. I mean, one of them was sucking a teenager, one of them was scamming people and like selling stolen property. And then one of them was fucking there counselor, which Sara Jessica Parker was with Morty who's the scamper. Oh my god, she's so good enough, so sexy three Sex in the City Sara Jessica Parker Sex in the City. Yeah,

I didn't know that. Wow, that's crazy. I mean, I yeah, revenge is I think I think it gets a bad rap, but I actually think it's a very productive motive sometimes, Like I think there's something I think you were saying earlier, like the way they paid it forward, Like I think that is an effective way to kind of work through something in a revenge like with the revenge path. Have either of you ever gotten revenge on somebody, because I think I have. I feel like of my success is

like a product of like revenge. Well, I do. I do subscribe to the idea that living well is the best revenge. I don't know that I've ever enacted vengeance on someone. I certainly have let things play out in a way where someone who did me wrong got what was coming to them. And I also have let my life play out in a way where my own success has proven people who have done me wrong wrong, And

to me, that is the best kind of revenge. Yeah, I'm going to echo that SENTI I definitely like I I feel like I was like hustling my way through my first like years in New York being like I'm going to prove every single high school bully that I ever had, like that I can be successful any person that ever didn't believe in me or whatever. But beyond that, I actually I mean, I'm going to be very vague because I don't want this to get back to the person.

But one time I always seeing someone for a while, Like I was super duber like in love with this person, and we broke up in a way that was like just not amicable, and they did something that was like very shitty on the kind of quasi cheating level that was just like very painful or whatever, and I forgot about this person for like years. Good revenge, yes, yes, yes,

yes that the best revenge happens years later. And I also yes, exactly exactly, And um, you know, I ended up hooking up with this person years later in New York while they were seeing someone else, So they were cheating on their new partner while hooking up with me on the side. I know, I'm not proud of it, but I'm but I also don't care. Um. And one time I got into an uberpool, remember uberpool, Like I

was getting home. Yeah, it's so fun to pay three dollars and seven the sixth cents to to sit in the backseat of a Toyota camera with two people who are doing meth and trying to figure out if you want to come home with them. So my god, You're like, I'm just trying to get to the airport. Yeah. And this was like an era of nightlife where like I only took uber pools. It was all I could afford. And like I got into an uber pool and sat there for like three minutes and the woman next to

me goes like, are you fran or whatever? And I was like, what, Okay, now I've had a conversation with this person. And this person was like, oh, I would have gotten out yeah, but this person was like, oh, I'm mutual friends with blank, this person that I was, this new person that I was hooking up with, and they were like, oh, yeah, he seems like super happy. I'm really good friends with him and his partner and

blah blah blah, they seem so happy or whatever. And I think I was a little drunk and I was I remember being like, you know, I have known blah blah blah for a very long time, and I will say like I don't think he's being true to his

partner or whatever. And I basically wanted a very small seed that was just like I don't like this person is kind of maybe cheating on your friend or whatever with me, But like I didn't say that, but I like and and then like I never saw that person again, and like, I think we stopped talking up or whatever, and I don't know if it ever got back to that person, but if it did, it's like years later. Revenge basically, you know what is part of all this?

Like living well, it's the best. Revenge is something that I feel is very much a product of of knowing that that is something that I am uh striving for. Is when I go and look at who watches my Instagram stories? Yeah, that it's like an intricate little like vanity exercise, like or like I go and scroll through my social media looking at it as if I am a person who was looking at it from the outside

and trying to understand the story it tells. I do think that social media, like by and large, is a byproduct of that idea of wanting to, you know, stick it to the people who have stuck it to you. Try not to look at like my story views. But I do often see my people that have sextually, you know, ghosted me watching every story and I'm like, you can't get enough. No, no, it's hot. You put on a great show. I put on a great show, and that's appreciated.

And there's so much value in putting on a great show. You know, entertainment has so much value people. It's really vulnerable to put yourself out there and a lot of people just can't do it. And like on topic, I do have divorce energy, like I feel like a lot of it. What does that mean to you? I think I feel like a lot of like what I feel like, I'm kind of like a very like I don't need a man, like I'm just a solo queen or ever, kind of like Eartha Kit Tracy Ellis Ross. I actually

think you have second wife energy. I think you're more of the Sarah Jessica Parker would love in the situation. And I'm too smart to be a trophy wife though, but I would love to be. Wait, I'm going to stop you right there. Yeah you're like if you are, you are that's that's hor phobic. It is okay call me. You are not too smart to be a trophy wive.

I've learned so much from trophy wives. A lot of a lot of people I really care about love and trust have taught me a lot about worthiness because I think trophy wifery is just like full time sex work kind of yeah, it's one client, and like you can agree or disagree, but like somebody's taking care of you and paying for your life and you can get your nails done and all that stuff or whatever it means to you. But I think it's just kind of owning

the job. It's like, I'm not apologizing. It's kind of sex work that is legitimized by our social structure, right because you've got a man, so you're legit now. And it's also super problematic, right because like now, like the trophy wife exit strategy is kind of like what a lot of strippers want, being like a wife in a

heterosexual relationship. Even sometimes, like I think a lot about that that Paris is Burning clip where that girl is like that there's a sex worker in Paris is Burning and she's kind of giving a spield to the camera and she's like, why is what I do like any different than the wife who really wants that washer and dryer and the man her husband doesn't want to give it to her, but she's going to give him what he wants that evening and so the next morning he

buys the washer and dry or like, why is that any different than what I do. Like, I think a lot about that. Clean clothes are amazing. Do you ever watch Real Houseyes of Beverly Hills. I don't, Okay, So

that is trophy whiffery to the like nth degree. Not all, not all of them, because a lot of them the women are are the ones who are bringing the capital to the relationship, as in First Wives Club, Because you know, you have Goldie Hawn, who is this Oscar winning actress who is the one who made her director husband's career. You have Bette Midler who says like she's the one who supported her husband until he became successful, and once

he gained success, that's when he left her. And then Diane Keaton who like, you know, we don't really know what her deal is, but like she has a very nice apartment, so she's still sleeping with her anymore and ends up buying his advertising agency. I think because she maybe got out of the business to have their child. That's maybe what we're supposed to understand is like she let him be the one who focused on his career

while she focused on more domestic pursuits. So raising a lesbian yeah, raising, oh my god, iconic this is, And I'm just thinking of like where what this movie meant to me and the ways that I experienced it as a child, like definitely younger than I should have. I think I probably saw it for the first time on HBO. It was definitely on HBO a lot when I was a kid, and I think, like the things that I

responded to were these fabulous women. I think also because I was a child of divorce, there was something in it that I like. It was like like calling to like um and then also all the gay stuff um of the gay as revenge. I feel like gay is revenge. You know. This is like I still struggle with my like identity sexually, not struggle. I don't struggle with it more, but but it's my who I want to fuck right is basically is sexuality to me. It's also a personal expression.

But it's always changing. Yeah, it's always like who, what I'm attracted to, what I want to call in who I think is intriguing. It's it's changing because I'm an Aquarius and I get bored, so I like to change. So what does that mean with my sexual identity. I don't know, but like the whole like gay as as a revenge like daddy, I'm a lesbian, a big one,

you know, like as to funk with him. Like part of me was like, that's fucking amazing, and part of me was like, wait what it's because it's yeah, that's the worst possible thing this man could hear is that? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, because if the yeah exactly, if the conflict is queerness, like that is like right, it was a nineties movie, and I still love the movie. Nothing's perfect. Things perfect, There's plenty of things that aren't perfect about it, but

like it's very long, it's a little long. It's it's a little long, is it. I loved every minute you know what else is really long nine to five, which is kind of in such a good movie. That's another

real I mean I enjoyed every minute of it. And how they wrote that movie too, how it came together, Like apparently I have I fan called really hard on all of those actresses, right, so um, apparently they really did all smoke pot and talk about the anses of what they would do to their boss, and that's how they wrote those scenes. No where, Yeah, I think they were all smoking pot. Who is the Who's probably probably

with Jane Well they're all stone. Well, I think Lily would be the one to bring it out, to bring the weight. And apparently that was like a real they really did interact and like have that moment, and that's how they wrote it into the movie, which is how I make my movies. Is I really just write what really happened in real life. And then I hid and Jane was like the engine that made that movie happen. And I remember she brought in Lily because she was

because she was a lesbian. She was like Lily brings that in factor. She know, she brings in a certain audience. She's not your average woman, Like this is like perfect. And then of course like she brought in Dolly. I think they had already worked together or something, but like, wasn't that Dolly's first acting person only still not only no, no no, and she's no phenominal best little her house. Yes she did. That's a good movie. Yeah yeah, um I love also but yeah that that movie is so good.

And she I remember, didn't she like didn't Dolly write the song? My she she didn't nails like like the she I can do it right now? Yeah she did that, she wrote it and she was like I got the song idea and then she went up to Jane and Lily it was like, what do you think? And she sang it and did the rhythm with her nails and they were like, they were like, it's a hit, yeah,

And it was. Honestly, it was the probably like an imminent part of like what happens when you when a song defines movie promotion or whatever, because that movie, that song was everywhere along with the movie's promotion, and it reminds me of like um Hold My Hand by Lady Gaga, or I was going to say, um Survivor for Charlie's Angel. Oh no, wait, was yea independent woman? Independent woman? Sorry? Sorry sorry for that was like kind of the moment

Camerondi and Destiny. Yes, I also love that one. When we when we emailed you and asked you about topics, one of your alts was Coyote Ugly. Oh yeah, which we got it. I would love to talk about Kyote Ugly to me canonically, Kyoe Ugly. I don't know why this is, but it's a Thanksgiving movie. I always watched it on Thanksgiving and like, I don't know, there's just something about it. But they're all sitting around the table counting money together food movie about chosen family. It is

a movie about chosen family. That movie made me want to be a stripper, hands down. Yeah. I mean it was because remember that when tire Banks is like we made three dollars tonight, and she had all this cash and all these girls were sitting around the table. Romantic plotline be gone, not that inc It was girls hanging out together talking about money. And this is what I like to do. I like to hang out with my girls, and I like to talk about how we're going to

get money and that. And they all looked hot and they were slutty, and I wanted all of those things. And then some amazing music and she's an artist, she becomes she does this job because she needs the gear to make her music so that she can be songwriter. Because being an artist costs money and time and time to do it. So you take these jobs that are higher paying so that you have the time and the freedom to create your art. And I just saw her

doing that. I remember on her like Apple computer that was like the new remember they came out and they all had colors, and I was just like, I want to be hanging out in my New York loft, like making a bunch of cash and making art when she gets robbed, and when she gets robbed, keeps the money in the freezer and they find it. Yeah, but then she rebuilds. Oh and also her best friend is played by Melanie Lynskey, who who played those kinds of roles

for literally decades before. She's now getting her flowers and yellow jackets. How when did you remember when you saw Okay, Like how old you were or like I was probably like, oh my god, well what year did it come out? Two thousand? I turned fourteen. I was thirteen and fourteen, Oh my gosh, like decade little did you know that?

Like a decade later or however long? It was literally a decade later I became Mr bart three and like and not just I mean like literally, like you are sitting at home idolizing like strippers on Petty Ugly and then like you know, years and years later j Lo would be motor boating you and hustlers like truly, like that is the full it is a full circle moment. Yeah. Yeah, when you walk differently after Jlo feels you up, I

have to. I mean, I don't know if you. I mean, we can take it out if you don't want to talk about it. I would love to know more about like just being on Hustlers. I remember after the movie, shortly after the movie came out, you wrote a really long, super thoughtful, like kind of Instagram story post just about the nuances of like that movie's relationship to like sex work, and like your relationship to it. Like what was the story of like being a part of that movie. It

was amazing. It was my big break. Literally, I got an email around my birthday, from my thirty first birthday, I think, uh, saying, hey, do you want an audition for Hustlers starring Jennifer Lopez? And I was like, and also every other stars yes. And I remember I think I was driving or something, and I was like, I'm going to be in that fucking movie. I just said it. I was like, I'm going to be in this fucking movie.

So I auditioned, and I meet Lorene Scafaria, the writer and director who I really admire, who is a badass. And I do the audition and then they offered me the part and they're like, also, will you be the intimacy coordinator? Yeah? Yeah, So I was like sure, we called it stripper consultant, comfort consultant because there weren't sex scenes. They weren't simulating sex, but like they needed help, you know, making the stripper scenes real. And so I was there. So j Low was like what would I say in

a situation like this? And like how would I move? And like you know, what is this like? And like what would I say to a guy in this? And I just you know, she asked a lot of thoughtful questions and she didn't need that much help. She's Jennifer Lopez just called them all scum. Yeah. Well I was like, I was like, well, I told her. She was like, what would I say if Usher walked in the club? And I was like, ask him his name? Yeah. The movie that was The Couch, It's like what's your name?

Because that's what you have to do when there's somebody who's big, you got to act like they're just a regular person. And it was a great scene. It was such a cool experience. I wouldn't have traded it for anything, you know, because it I wanted. I've always wanted to be in movies and make movies, and that was my opportunity. And that's a pretty good one. Do you think do you think it's a really like fair and thoughtful depiction

of that industry, of the industry experience. I did not scam a bunch of guys out of that much money. But let me tell you, I wish I did. I wish I did because I remember when that cut article came out and I was working in the clubs in Manhattan, and look, stripping in Manhattan is the hardest ship I've I've done a lot of hard things, but it's tough. It is tough. I learned so much about myself. I

became so much stronger. But it's a really intense. It's capitalism on steroids, right, It's like all of these people, uh who work in New York and who can afford New York City strip clubs, they're intense, intense. They want your soul because they've sold theirs and they want yours, you know. And I don't want to say all everyone, but it's intense, and like, sometimes don't you just wish they were fucking sleeping instead of trying to gnaw on

your nipples? Yeah, Like if I could give someone ketamine to go have a nice nap instead of chewing on my tits, go to sleep, go to sleep sleep. Yeah. So so, look like I know what, I love a movie about women doing bad things because I am not a good person. This is why why we love I mean, they were like, you know, catech good. I feel they were. They were good. I mean, honestly, I think it's just kind of like owning that, like a we all have

shadow sides, we all do things, we all do bad things. Yeah, for so long, we only got one of these movies, like a decade um and in In I think, like other versions of them, the women were always punished. And that's one great thing about these films is that the women aren't punished for doing bad things or forgetting what they want. I think now we're to place in media where stories that center women doing bad things, like we

there's like an embarrassment of riches. We have a lot of them, and the women don't have to be punished at the end of them. Let us, let let us learn the lesson, let us take the lesson and keep going. Yeah, and I've got a new movie about strippers coming out in the fall. Are you allowed to talk about it? Yeah? I sure am, Yeah, it's my movie. I can do whatever I wrote, directed, executive produced, co directed, and started my first film. It's called Tuesdays with Brian so excited.

I had a character that I did a lot on Instagram a couple of years ago. So it stars Brian played by me, and it's a guy going to a strip club. It's just into regular Tuesday, all of those, all of that just there's so much fodder in that. And the whole cast and crew is predominantly people who are familiar with the industry have worked in it, so it's told by people who have done the work, and

it's funny, I honestly think. I mean, in the array of like sex worker movies that I can think of, I feel like I have yet to see one that feels like sex workers had like I played a super meaningful part and like what was be made outside of hustlers. I also think like Zola, like Zola like that that

kind of ye. So the way they portrayed um sex work as like I'm just trying to work, just trying to get the money, and you have to deal with all of that sex works of like I'm just trying to get twenty People think that the dancing is what you get paid for when you're a stripper, right that it's like the twenty lap dance, Like I had to spend ten minutes talking to this guy to convince him

to buy one. That's the work. The three and a half minutes where I'm dancing is where I can just kind of move my body and breathe and just tune it out and just do my It is a lot of it is very anticlimactic, and so much of sex work and my experience of it was waiting and just kind of like getting ready being on call. Yeah, getting ready, I mean ready is fun. Sometimes the waiting is not. And then I always loved like the aftermath of like Okay, now I'm going to order a burrito and just vibe.

It really helped me with valuing performance and art as as work, because now as an artist, I treat my creativity and my craft and my time and my body with the same care, because it's really essential that I'm in good health, that my hands work, that my voice works, that my body is strong so that I can continue to do the things that I need to do to

make a living. And that's really what stripping tommy and that's how my performance as a comedian I know is enhanced eight thousand times because of my work on stage as a stripper and my ability to talk to people, and most importantly, my comfort with asking for money, because if you want to be an artist, you if you want to fall in love with art, you have to fall in love with asking for money all the time. It's it's it's for I mean, it's I still ask

for money. Every single thing that I do to make a living is eventually me asking for money. Yeah, occasionally, occasionally people will offer me money, but it's very much asking for it all the time. And um, it used to be revengeful that, you know a man, Haiti. I started stripping. I'm a survivor. I got into stripping and I have really hated men, and I felt like that was a place where I could take my power back

and get paid and be safe. And over many, many, many years, I've sort of like healed parts of that. And then money is a lot of things. It's sexy, Yeah, it is sex. I love cash undeniably. I love them. I love In First Wives Club, when Goldie Hahn takes all of her ex husband's possessions and then sells them at auction and gives him her cut of it, which is yeah, whatever, Yes, the Lamborghini, the Liechtenstein, Yeah, that Miller is so good, and that maybe she is Goldie

hand every day. That is literally I took that when I the first time I got Fillers. I took that photo with me and said, this is what I want. I want. But she's in the chair and she's like more. She is so Goldie. Hawn is one of the greats of our lifetime, one of the greatest comedic actress is And I think she is not thought of in that way enough because I think, like because she is like so beautiful and so glamorous, but she is a comedic genius.

We were actually just talking recently about I I just saw a production of Into the Woods in New York, the Steven Sonheim musical, and there was supposed to be a movie version of it with her and Share and Robin Williams. I'm so sad that we were robbed of that, and I wish she was doing movies doing movies. Wasn't the last movie she did? That movie with Amy Schumer. My favorite of hers is The House Sitter. I've never seen it. Oh my god, what is it about? Oh

my god? Steve Martin. Goldie Han is it's a squatting movie. She starts squatting in Steve Martin's house and she's so hot knit she wears her body suits in her jeans and she's just like being amazing the premises. She meets Steve Martin at a bar or something and she find and he and he I don't know, and he has like a beautiful house. He's an architect, but he's like not living in it because I think he proposed to his girlfriend and she was like it was such a

good scene. He builds this beautiful house for her and he drives up in the converted to this beautiful house and he's presenting the house and he's like, marry me and this bitch I love her. She's like no. So he's so bummed. Right, he goes drinking and he's like drawing, Oh my god, I really ate so much to so

many parts of this movie. He's like drawing on a cocktail napkin the house and Goldie Han finds it, and she finds the house and she just starts living in it because no one's there, and she's pretending that she's his new girlfriend, but he doesn't know because he's not there. It's such a good movie. It's such an inspiration. And three of them are like the are great, they're amazing actresses. Yan Keene is an amazing way. She's still she really

has showed kind of how much she sucks. But that year, I'm sorry, this is this anatirist is probably told to death. But like Bet the fact that Bett used to like singing like gay bath houses, Like did you know that she used to like she like used to do before she was like famous famous, Her agent will book her for like three dollars to like sing songs at like gay bathhouses where there was like you know, back when like you know, gay sex was criminalized. This is where

they were the origin. I love it. I love the money you get to do weird Ship because it's a gig my idea. A gig is a gig and they are not all great, but they're all great stories. Could you imagine Bette Midler performing to a room full of wi yes, yes, yes, I I'm sure there's plenty of gay men who still have sex while Bette Midler is in the room in some way or another. Well, in the Politician season two, there's so many different ways to put on a show and share a story and be

a great entertainer. And these are the stories we talked about thirty years later. You can put on a show at your you know, women's shelter at the end of the opening while no one is there. Yes, because it just feels so good to do it. I'm just so happy that that film had the self awareness to put that scene at the end of them doing a number. Yeah, it's going to end in a dance finale. It has to end in the most celebratory way. Yes, I feel like that movie is now like a beloved like gay film.

I think it's a beloved like lesbian film. I think a lot of trans people love this film. And I think that, like a lot of things that had mass appeal when it came out in the nineties, have like a cruden value to where we are now. And I think like revenge and like powerful women like getting that

revenge to kind of suck the patriarchy. Like, it's amazing how much that message has like just become even more kind of resident also passes the back tol test because like they start off talking about their husbands and then the real drama becomes their relation chips with each other. You know, there's the scene where she throws the golden globe. I think when they all fight and when Goldie Hans says one of her best lines ever, I have feelings.

I'm an actress. I have, all of them have. And also you know, just like the the zane nous of it, when they're in the scaffold, the window washing thing, and it falls like that. They just don't make movies like this anymore. They don't, They literally don't. But we can't. Well, I'm gonna so I'm I'm moving into like much more serious filmmaking. So rest assured, I'm going to be making

way more buddy comedies. All the rich people listening. If you want to finance Queer, Fast and the Furious, you can email me yes, because I want to make a car movie about bitches that Why does that not exist? Going? I'm making it, you're making it, That's why? Why don't tell me? That's right? Don't? We are all by the way virgins. If you if you're trying to picture us in your minds, we're all wearing white powers. So we just um and we are stomping away. What do y'all want?

To see us discuss next because honestly, we have no idea we are really running load. It could be a book, a movie, a cultural phenomenon, a moment of celebrity, something that was just very specifically interesting to you as a baby queer or you know, siss het. If you are out there, Um, you can call us to confess at three to three penance. That's three to three, seven three, six to six to three. But you can also leave suggestions as a review on Apple podcast, as an Instagram story,

just like any way you want to reach us. You know there are middling degrees of success, and also tag our earner Instagram account at like a virgin for which is probably the best way to get to us. Yes, we do check the d m s. We do not always respond to them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't know if we're yeah, I don't know if we're always You're trying, but we will see. Um. I'm your co host fran Toronto. You can find me at Frans Squish Co. Wherever you

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Like a Virgin is an I Heeart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe W The Phoebe Winter with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and Nicky E. Tour until next week, See you later, virgins. That was really fun and everyone's tids looked really great. Yeah, okay, you better include that too, though, Phoebe. Wait, let's get a boom shot booby but amazing booms