Gape Expectations

had been staged. I'm not proud of this, but I've never been on the Dakota Johnson train. You know what, fran I will not accept any Dakota Johnson slander, because today we are lifting Dakota up and celebration and thanking her for the amazing, incredible show stopping never the same bus, club, another club, another club, bus, no sleep, next plane, no sleep.

Gift that she gave the world, which is fifty shades of gray, yes, and then after that, of course, becoming the crew the director of a very bougie lube company that I will say I was a fan of before she hopped Onto, but it is a great loop Virgins. Today we are talking about fifty shades of great, not just the movies, not just the books, but the fifty shades of great phenomenon, which is you know that these

are the best selling books of the twenty tents. Um. This was a moment in pop culture, took pop culture by storm, and we will be revisiting it because this is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm ros Damo and I'm Fran Toroto. Fran, are you ready to be tied up and dominated? Um,

you're asking for my consent? Um? No, okay, And I guess podcast over and just like that season one, and I mean what I'm hoping is the only season of and just like that, but probably won't be has ended. What did you think? What did you think of the finale? I mean you hated it obviously, but what's your nuanced and can you provide analysis of why you hated it? Yeah? There were parts of it that I liked, Okay, I loved Carrie's dress in Paris incredible, although he did she

should have been wearing the carry necklace. Um. I loved Harry. Harry was amazing. Let's let's start with Harri okay, because Harry sucked up every scene. Harry like now joins the legacy of iconic Sex in the City guest stars. That's so true. She really brought that zaney nous back into Sex in the City. I think that's something that's really were we were missing from this reboot. And just like that universe is so much And here's the thing. The

buzz around Harry is a lot. And they originally had her reading for the book publisher role, and then they had her comeback in and they wrote this role for Harry, which is thank how much they liked her. She need she needed room to breathe. I'm glad we got so much Rabbi Jen and she was so integrated into the storyline and to all the girls storylines. Yes, she was like the Deos x Machina of like their relationship drama honestly, which I loved um and I foresee Harry in season two.

To be honest, I think that makes her the fourth girl good well, I mean I don't know about I mean, she would be amazing at them as the fourth note. But we should use her, use her space. I don't think they deserve her. I don't actually trust these women with like a trans friend because hart character is trans in this iteration at the at the mitzvah, which I mean, I guess let's getting to the stuff that I didn't like.

Because Rock York Golden Black needs to be in jail. Um. I think actually everyone and and just like that should be in jail. The only person who shouldn't be is Rabbi Jen. She can have the keys, she can lock them up, but everyone everyone else belongs in prison. I will say, as a Jews I was happy to see like such an accurate representation of what one of these over the top barmitz was looks like that being said, it was so unrealistic that they would just let Rock

not go through with it. Although it was funny to see them trying to bribe Rock, because that is very fucking funny. What do you want an oculut? That definitely happened to me in some way, like I was given some kind of material reward for like training for my bar mitzvah, but like just trying to bribe Rock just to do it was like I imagine that has happened to a lot of people, but what a fucking little piece of ship. I feel like I had a slightly

different takeaway from this. I was on Team Rock. I thought also Rock licked Dora that I have to go. I've got to go. This podcast is over. Rock was not a Team Rock podcast. Also, have never heard Rocky or Golden Black said out loud, which is was very jarring for you to say, But now that I'm hearing it,

like I I know this person. I know Rocky or Golden Black like a some crunchy queer hipster pretending to be some crunchy queer hipster, but it's actually, yeah, yeah, We've worked with them, We've had sex with them, we've

been at parties with them. Like but I I, you know, I thought it was an amazing plot point, and I was totally on rock side about kind of coming coming at a head in so many different areas of your life and being like, Okay, these are all the things I've called in a question about my gender, So of course, like when like when I start to think about my religion,

I'm gonna like question that too. And you know, a kid would wait until the eleventh hour to decide that they don't want to do this anymore, and I thought it was also I wish I had been explained more, but it was a really nice way to tie together what was wrong about the whole experience, which is that the whole day mitzvah was really about Charlotte. It was about what Charlotte wanted. Yeah, that was a mits was

are about I know, but that's about the parents. Like that's kind of what Rock was trying to say but couldn't. And so suck it up, suck it up and take the thousands of dollars you're going to get his gifts. Yeah, And honestly, the vibe Roc was getting with a little like like kind of like a coexist kind of queer like kind of I did like Rock Suit. I like

Ross Suit. The pink suit was great. I mean otherwise, like, I guess we have to talk about jay I. Okay, Chad is announcing their pilot via song at a huge party when like, I mean, yeah, getting a pilot is exciting, but also like that pilot is probably not getting picked up, and if it is, it's getting canceled after one season, So like have the party later, you know, Yeah, it's too early to celebrate. Although I love giving Sarah Ramirez a chance to sing they are a Broadway icon, as

we have talked about. I thought like that the whole Miranda, I'm gonna go with you to l A thing was like really unhinged. I loved and going back to Harry, like the scene in the bathroom where they kind of like come at ahead of like are you going to Paris? Are you going to l A? Are you going to

do both or neither? Whatever? Like that was so real, And I thought Miranda saying I'm allowed to change, like I'm allowed to completely up end everything you know about me as a character because I'm having a crisis, like I am calling into question everything that I've believed before this moment. I thought that that earned a lot of what we saw this season that was like so frustrating about you know, Miranda becoming this kind of hard to

watch character. I don't know. There was just no resolution for it, though, because the resolution like saying I'm allowed to change, isn't the resolution of a story, especially if this does end up being the only season, Like that's where we leave Miranda. Yeah, I just need you to know that I don't I don't care who I'm dating I don't care if I'm dating like this Disney like prince of a human being. Like I would never ever pass up on a trip to Paris with you to

dispel your husban. Thank you. That's really sweet of you. I would also never pay for you to come to Paris with me. I did love that. Once Miranda canceled, Carrie was like, Charlotte, I'm not going to Paris to people, there's no way. It was extremely accurate though it's and true. I mean, and Charlotte knows her place. She's like, yeah, like word like I understand. Yeah, with the Shadeas of

it all, you know. I was reading this Vulture article where they interviewed all of the writers from and just like that, and one of them was saying, like, oh, yeah, we knew people were going to hate Shadeas, like that was the point. They were supposed to be this like caricature. And that just made me so angry because you can't say that after the fact, to like retcon your bad choices like that has to all be on the page when you write the script and on the screen when

you shoot it. You can't say after you've seen all the tweets, like ha ha, we knew, we knew everyone was going to be Team Steve, like this was all intentional, because that's not clear from the show. All you have is the text and it doesn't It didn't work, And I call bullshit on that. I call bullshit as well, especially when there are no Latin or non binary writers in this room. It just makes them look bad, like

they're punching down, you know what I mean. If like there were a bunch of men like writing a role for a woman as to like, you know, why she's like a funk up or whatever, like why she's like a villain, Like you would feel kind of a type of way about that, you know what I mean. There's a difference between creating a character that is so villainous that you love to hate them. She is someone we

hate to hate. Like it's not fun to watch. There's nothing about what brings this character together that is satiating. And I think it's a testament to the intentions of their writing and what we see actually on screen versus like what we're reacting to. It's just it's just not

sticking the landing to me. Also, sorry, she would never be monogamous, So there's I don't understand nor should nor should they have to be, you know, which is why it's like such a missed opportunity for there to be queer queer like actually like nonminary writers in this room to talk about like the nuances of what sex and the City characters could learn about queer relationships, which has

so much to teach them. But honestly, this is rounding to like what I feel as like my resounding point about the finale, which is that where we are ending at the end of season one is actually where we we should have started, you know what I mean? I feel like season would have been just like that is so much like grief and like all these kind of character rearranges and so much like upheaval that was like not really earned, but like I would much rather start

the season with biggest Dad. Miranda is divorced and dating someone non binary, you know, shar has a non binary kid. Samantha is about to re enter the franchise question mark, Like that is a starting point and I did not need to watch like the season worth of what was the Reject? Did Nicholas Sparks novel of like Carrie's grief plot line? You know what? I mean, like it really was not like the T and I didn't I didn't

need it to forget. Yes, I didn't need to watch your like tragic kiss on a stoop with that, but I did like the kiss with the hot producer. That was good. We needed a start rebounds. Yeah, but like no, I I do think it makes sense that it ends in a more hopeful way than it started. Honestly, when they were talking about Miranda, Miranda and her internship, Miranda

rejecting an are you kidding me? There isn't a world where in any fifty plus year old woman is vying for an internship or has any sort of stakes in an unpaid internship. Well, also, like it was just too late to introduce that as an obstacle, Like they should have seeded that earlier in the season, like show us her trying to get the internships, so we understand what she's giving, and it should be like the state was so unclear she I mean it could be an apprenticeship.

It should she should be at the directorial level, Like there's she's studied, she has all this experience in another field. She would have come back and been at a much higher level. It just doesn't make sense. Um. But all that to say, even though the finale was not really that great at tying all of the ends that we were interested in, I did enjoy my way through it, um with with the exception of like the Talking Lamp and like the ashes of it all. Yeah, well I

don't this is not you know, ooky spooky our. That's not what I came here for. And like also her saying that bigs in Heaven, I hate to break it to you, but biggest burning in hell in hell in hell, I am going to miss the show. I'm gonna miss. Well, I'm gonna miss. I don't know what I'm going to do on Thursdays anymore. Okay, Well, what have you been watching this week? M oh, I've been listening to a

lot of the new music that's been coming out. I shockingly love the new Mitsky album, and I am on record, possibly on this podcast, as not really being into Mitsky. Surprising. Yeah, it is surprising because she does seem like someone who would be exactly my Josh, but Be the Cowboy really didn't do it for me and I even after listening to her new album, I went back and listened to Be the Cowboy to be like, oh was I like not giving it a fair shot, and no I still

don't like it. Um. I think it's this something specific about this album, like it's very cynthy um, which I really liked. Um, and you know, it's like so good that I will even forgive it for only being like thirty minutes long, which girls make your albums longer. We are not. I'm not here for EPs. No, no, no cowards, come on. I also I'm I'm I like Mitsky, but I'm not a Mitsky head. This album also appealed to me because if it's it's dance, I guess um vibes

I Love should have been me. That's maybe my favorite song on the album. I think that should have been the way it kind of like good. I Also one of my friends, Jaslin, did the choreography for this Stay is Soft music video I think, which is also a really good song. Um. But yeah, I mean welcome to the Mitsky clan. I'm I'm glad to have you Rose. All of the girls on this side of town are are here to welcome you. Yeah. I loved like the

only heartbreaker is so good love me more. There's definitely more of um, like a st vincent kind of vibe on this album, which really appeals to me. And I'm just so happy that we have, you know, these women who are still making rock and roll um that you know, because that is very much like a musical sweet spot for me. Also, this weekend, I was listening to on repeat um the machine Gun Kelly and Willow Songmo Girls.

I winced and then smiled because I was like, machine Gun Kelly, No Willow, Yeah, Okay, yeah, it's a It's the song called Emo Girl, and it's about being in love with an emo girl, and it's like it's so catchy and like addictive Willow. The Willow clubs are sick the club with Avril when av was so good, perfect use of Avril. I just it's it was so well done. Okay, moving on to Drag Race. The only thing I have to say is that this is the funniest mini challenge

in the history of Drag Race, point blank period. I was it was very funny when Sa McLaughlin showed up, I gag. I think the challenges have been really good this season, like this and like last week where they had to make the teaser, like that's very inventive and I really like it. Um. My big takeaway from this episode was Georgia's fucking eight that lip sing. Honestly, like she should have um, I don't know, like one twice

because of it. They should she should have like retroactively won the challenge because of how good that lip sync performance. I kind of think Georgia should have been in the bottom last episode two and maybe the episode before that, because I would have loved to watch her lip sync for her life every time, Like she I think is an assassin. Like I don't think we even saw her

in that episode. No, I don't think so either. I do wonder if she'll because I think I think about like the narrative slots that that different contestants fill in their season. I wonder if she will be one of the ones who does poorly early on and then realizes they have to step their pussy up and ends up making it, you know, all the way to the end, or vain, or or if she's just like, you know, going to have a couple of fierce lip sings and then eventually they're like, okay, but you still suck in

the challenges, so you're going home. Yeah, I mean it's going to be a Cheachy or a Trinity Cabon, a kind of redemption. Maybe I would love to see that, to be honest, even if she's not technically as good as some of the other girls. Are you watching UK versus the World? I am, we are, you know, I haven't watched it, but I'm I'm interested. Can I please please please please, ma'am yeuse I I give you to watch Drag Race Canada season one because like, I'm not watching.

I'm not watching. I'm not watching a seasonal drag Race without RuPaul. No. That's another thing I'll say about this current season of Drag Race that Mr Paul is kind of serving like he's he's been really on his game. Um, and I have to say, like, that's why I won't watch, you know, like many of these international seasons, because it's not drag Race without RuPaul for me. I mean, I okay, I agree with the sentiment of what you're saying, especially even though as I say that I can feel the

estrogen beings out of my body. Um. I think, um, particularly with the game we watched, like I love that they're straight up hazing Maddie morphosis, Like yeah, yeah, they are like every like like when when it was Maddie's turn, they were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I love, rude, that's what Yeah, it was that very much was the energy like you're gay but rose all of the virgin

I wish Maddie. I wish Maddy MorphOS is like said no, homo before she started doing it, like I want her to be in on the joke a little more if we have to have her. Yeah, I agree, it's whatever. But on that note, you would not be saying what you're saying about rue if you saw her runway for UK Versus the World, which I know you did because you saw my Instagram story. But girl, she cleaned up at Sheen. She got her this ugly ass velvet like pink string. Who she dress so something you would wear

a till party. Yeah, looked like a full mall rat. Yeah yeah, giving me my brats doll aesthetic. Yeah yeah, exactly, a tell far bag in a poorly done smoky eye. Um. But yeah, you're getting there. No, no, no, everyone sending me please send in makeup tips for France. I will I will receive makeup tips if you receive campaigns to please watch Canada Season one because coming back to UK

Versus the World. Jimbo and his involvement in that season is like essential knowledge for watching UK versus the World. You have to see what Jimbo does with his art in order to see someone send me in a YouTube super cut with the highlights. I'll watch them. Fine, I'm not watching the whole season. Okay, fine, fine, if you're not going to watch it. But my point is for those that aren't watching UK's Versus the World, I don't

know why it's called that. It's not formatted as a UK versus the rest of the people on this show. It is literally just International All Stars. It's All Stars rules. So the winner's lip sync and they eliminate someone from the bottom two. So, I mean, I love those rules. I'm it makes it so much more fun to watch it. What's really fascinating is they did not enter the workroom.

They entered the runway, and it was kind of a little like Meet the Queen's kind of moment, or re Meet the Queen's kind of moment, as opposed to, um, you know this, like we're chroom drama that kind of happens at the beginning. But I mean, some of my main takeaways from the show are that there's just like nothing left behind Jujubes eyes, like she's just dead girl dead inside. I I she is one of my all

time favorites, and it's it's really hard. She's one of the best, She's one of the best, and it's so hard to watch her do this because her soul just

isn't in it anymore at all. Like even big Juju fans like me can admit that, like this was such a below average like performance in the beginning of the show, like you'll see it's just like so like not Juju, And honestly, you just like see the light leaver eyes as RuPaul cackles in the bathroom and as RuPaul cackles in the background, Um, I just wanted to say, RuPaul's in the bathroom making sure that there's no treadswomen in there. She's like here he called me, get your ass out

of Um. What Jimbo does on UK Versus the World is high art and it honestly helped made me appreciate what few like performance artists we have on this show. Like I think willow Hill is kind of performance. I think even like Sasha Willowers heartbreaking on this episode of Drag Race. She was so good and then when she was talking about her body breaking down, it was so sad. That was the moment I want her to win me too, because Cornbread getting eliminated. We need to talk about cornbread.

I was goop gooped. It was a good episode. It was an exquisite episode of television in in large part because of these twists and turns. These girls are selling their souls and holes away to Satan slash rubaal that that they are, that they are, and the same as the case for International All Stars, which is what I'll be calling UK versus the world. The most important takeaway is that Pangina for the win. Mama Pangina is hot hot, Yeah.

But I guess like there's also like a weird aspect of it, like you are the best of the best in your country, like so good that we had you host our show. But but even being that means you are not on the level of the host in this country's version of drag. But there is precedent for it now because you know, when they put baby Zahara Bane into the show, they were like, what the fuss she already won? You know what I mean? Like or I think they've done a version of this before, like where

it's like a winner and a host. I mean, I guess like didn't Brooklyn Heights came back as one of the lip sync assassins. She was the host of Canada's Drag Race, but she was originally a contestant, So I don't know. It's just it's just interesting. It's a little like it's a little colonialist, which considering it's UK versus the world, like yikes, yikes. So so what you're saying is that this show, this show is about imperialism. It is imperials, yes, the imperialism of drag So fifty Shades

of Gray. This is a very true example of the premise of this podcast because I had to literally force Frand to watch this with me. Actually kick um, I will. I want to set the intention and like I want the virgins to understand the context of fifty Shades of Gray. I un ironically and very earnestly and passionately and spiritually love this movie. I think I love this series of films. I believe you have said on this podcast that is

they're the best. They're the best films ever made, all three of them, not just the first, As that being said, I have never read the books. Uh. The only time I did ever read a section of the Fifty Shades of Gray novel was um over someone's shoulder on a plane once because they were squirming in their seat next to me while reading something and I wanted to see what it was, and it was Fifty Shades of Gray.

The only time I've ever heard a passage of this book was when it was read by Gilbert Godfried for something I can't remember who, Gilbert Godfrey. It was the fun Is he alive? Did he diet? But it was, I will say, extremely funny. It was very well done. Um. But in a way I have read Fifty Shades of Gray because I've read Twilight, right of course, so give us the context here, Where where does the franchise come from? Well,

fifty Shades of Gray. If you've never read the books were seen the movies is three stories about Anastasia Steel, the most unrealistic name of a character ever in history, who is a sort of mousy college student who meets a kinky billionaire and and gets involved in a sort of reluctant b D s M relationship with him, and the series is about her wanting him to stop being kinky and be in like a normal relationship with her, and him wanting to like hit her and take out

his mommy issues on her. That is the basic premise of all three movies. I I want to get into it, but I just have to tell you where I'm coming from Rose, which is obviously I haven't read the books, but I was working at Random House in the wake of fifty Shades Mania. I worked as a studio assistant, and I have some real beef with this book franchise because the year I started to work there was the year immediately after every employee at Random House got a

five thousand dollar Christmas bonus. Every single employee, a company of thousands of people, every employee got a five thousand dollar bonus because of fifty Shades money. Isn't that crazy? Like the CEO was like, we made so much money that every employee gets you get a call? Are you get a car? I was just anyways, I was furious, which is very interesting to think about because we have to set fifty Shades of Gray in context, because fifty

Shades of Gray is fan fiction. We talked about this briefly in our Twilight episode with Peyton Dicks, which you should definitely go listen to if you haven't. Um. Fifty Shades of Gray was originally published as a Twilight fan fiction called Master of the Universe. It was written, it was written. It was written under the pen name wait for it, Snow Queen's Ice Dragon. Snow Queen's Ice Dragon. I hate that, but also, yeah, that is kind of

a serve of a fan fiction screen name. So this was written as a Twilight fan fiction in which Edward was just this kinky billionaire. Bella was like basically just Bella. One of the biggest complaints with Twilight is how puritanical it is. And you know, the main tension of the CEA is that, as we talked about with Peyton, Bella wants to fuck Edward, and Edward won't fuck Bella because he's a vampire and his superpowered dick would like cave

in her skull if she gave him head. It is the sole engine of the screenplay pretty much, and so like fifty Shades takes that and flips it's on its head, which is that, you know, Christian Gray or Edward Cullen in the fan fiction is very willing to fuck Anastasia or Bella, but won't give her the emotional intimacy she wants because he has this, you know, like tortured past. And there are a lot of kind of characteristic mirrorings

between the two which we'll get into. It's the they're exactly the same, like all of the characters are are like the character the basic like tenants of their personalities are completely unchanged. Right, Except the tension of Fifty Shades is that Christian Gray is kind of inducting her into bedous m I was going to say culture, but it's not really bad and culture, which we'll talk about, and in Twilight, it's more like Edward kind of being like,

these are my vamp this is my vampire culture. You're not allowed to be in it. It's a little it's a slightly different kind of tension. Yeah, So I want to kind of walk us through the history of of the publication of Master of the Universe and how it became the book and movie franchise we know today. Let me just buckle in. So when Snow Queen's Ice Dragon, we have to see the full name every So when E. L. James, the artists formerly known as Snow Queen's Ice Dragon again

publishing Master of the Universe. UM, she did something that like it doesn't really happen a lot in fan fiction, or at least like as someone who has read fan of fiction like my entire adult and adolescent life and

still does. UM. She wrote that when she was published in this story, it was like in real time and she had a real like relationship with her audience and in her author's notes when she was publishing the story, like each new chapter she would ask people for like suggestions on on plot points that they wanted to see, and like she would get you know, feedback from them

on where they wanted the story to go. So this really was a like community exercise, which is why I think there is a lingering sour taste for people who were in the Twilight community, which I UM. I was listening to a podcast that's come out recently. It's called The Big Hit Show, and it's about um, you know, like huge cultural moments. I'm like, how they become that big very brave of you to listen to. What is your first podcast ever? I thought of you, I'm going

to ignore that the first season is all about Twilight. UM. And they did do an episode, like specifically about fan fiction. And there were a lot of people who were in the Twilight Phantom at the time that this is being published who have a lot of like sore feelings about it because what E. L. James did is this trope within fan fiction um that's referred to as filing off

the serial numbers. And it's basically like, when you write a fan fiction it becomes really successful, you think, oh, this has potential to actually be a book that I can capitalize on, because the thing about fan fiction is that it's free. You can't make money off of it. Um. It's a it's a it's an in doubt, it's like something that people do, like purely for the enjoyment of writing, of like you know, being in fandom, of like loving a piece of art that so much that you want

to continue playing in the world. And so when someone sees like commercial viability for their fan fiction, they pull to publish and then do this thing called filing off the serial numbers, which is like, you know what el

James did. She pulled her story from wherever what lived Online, did like a searching and replace with all of the names, and you know, published it as fifty Shades of Gray what And it was originally actually self published of course, like on like what on Amazon or something like that.

It was published as an e book and a print on demand paperback, and then it became so successful because of like a viral marketing campaign that it was eventually published by Vintage Books and became the best seller we know today, right, And so I mean you and I watched the movie together before we get into that. I think you know, there was, as we all remember, a complete inability to avoid the conversation of hippie shades. Right.

It was such a it was such a joke, like it was very very much fodder for late night you know um hosts to put to poke fun it. And I think, like it's it's very similar to this same criticism that surrounded Twilight when Twilight first came out, which was people making fun of young women for wanting to read a romantic saga, especially something that was horny. But yeah, but like Twilight wasn't as obviously horny, of course, And I think it's it's different. It's different versions of hating

women for the things that they're interested in. Twilight was hating young women for wanting to participate in romantic fantasy, and fifty Shades of Gray was hating women for wanting to read something like that made them horny. Period. That is such a good distinction because I remember like the S and L jokes about like, you know, women in their forties and fifties like reading and like you know, masturbating on a corner of a washing machine or whatever.

You know what I mean. But like the you know, the person the people having the last laugh with this are Stephanie Meyern L James because these things that you know, culturally people wanted to make fun of, which are women, and their interests are extremely profitable, you know. Like when Twilight was released, they thought it was going to be a flop, and it's one of the Yeah, it's one of the biggest movie franchises ever. It made like seventy

million dollars it's opening weekend. I'm shocked that they thought it was going to be a flop. But what's interesting also, I mean, well, not to poke fun in the exact same way we're trying to like criticize, but I will say I do remember very viscerally the images circulating online by the time the movie franchise came out of ushers in movie theaters finding many times soiled cucumbers. Um, do you remember that? No, it's not real or is that

just like a Twitter thing? Basically, there are a series of images online of ushers and theaters being like I found a like a literal like soiled. I don't I don't believe that. I think people were faking. You get the image. It looks pretty compelling. I don't know, but I'm not. But my point is not till I mean, I think the hoax, that's just giving hoax. That's just like funny, it's fun to make fun of. But it

is exactly in line with what you're saying. Is that the overall kind of like punchline of at least fifty shades. But I guess in tandem with Twilight is kind of like women wanting things. You know, Yeah, but when there's no one is an easier target than women and the things that they're interested in. Well, please don't masturbate in

movie theaters. Yes, even though like women and our interests, we drive pop culture every time, there's a reason why, Like most fan fiction is written by women, and like a lot of it is by queer women. I mean, anyone who listens to this podcast knows that I love fan fiction. I am a scholar of fan fiction. But I never I never read Fifty Shades of Gray when they were books. I was really never interested, even though

I knew the backstory. And I think by that point I had kind of moved on from my Twilight interest because I was very interested, or I was. I was like interested in the books when they came out, and I was bored one summer and read them all and it happened to be the summer before the movies came out, so I like got on the train of being really

into them. But then by the time the last Twilight movies came out, I was like my interest had waned the Fifty Shades of Gray came out, I like saw the book phenomenon kind of from a distance, like didn't really participate in it. And then the movies came out, and did you see them? I did. I A friend of mine had gone to Connecticut to do a writing retreat and like some house that his like family owned, and I went out there for a couple of days and it was in this very podunc town and there

was nothing for us to do. So we decided to go see Fifty Shades of Gray one night because it was the only thing playing at the movie theater and I was obsessed. You were radicalized. I was radicalized as a fifty Shades of Gray stand and I have never looked back. And um, you know, like my my good friend Ryan and I like we saw that the second TOO movie together and like both ironically and un ironically

enjoyed them. Uh, you and I watched the first movie together. Um, so I'll reserve my thoughts for now, but what was your reaction when you saw it for the first time? You said you were radicalized? But like what we're kind of the do you remember anything that you latched onto, whether it was like an image or something about Dakota or something about how it's framed. I think it was. It does a lot of the things that I think Twilight did really well in adapting the books, which is

makes them cooler than the source material. So like Twilight did that really well with the soundtrack, and fift Shades of Great has great soundtrack. It's like the soundtrack is so good. Fance slow mix. Well, that was such a moment when the trailer came out and it was the updated version of Crazy and Loves It's sublime is such a god It's and It's film did not deserve the effect within the movie. No, it's not. Well, we'll talk about it anyways. I I honestly cannot pinpoint what I

love about the movies so much. I really like them. I mean, I I can acknowledge that, like the story has a lot of flaws the same way that Twilight does. And that's what I like about it is like it's melodrama treated very seriously, but also like fifty shades of great kind of like the Twilight movies, like does let itself like not take itself too seriously and does kind of like wink a little bit at like how ridiculous what's happening is? Does it wink? Think? Do you think

the film is aware of itself? I feel I do? You know what's funny is when I was watching, I feel like Dakota is aware of what's going on. I think Dakoda. But I think, is that is that colored by like you knowing the Dakota Johnson of Tonight? That's a really fair that's a really fair point, perhaps, And I honestly think whoever is listening at home might have

an answer to that too. I think based on her performance, I thought Dakota gave something that was a little more cartoony than what Jamie Dornan and the rest of the cast was doing. Like, I think that Dakota fed into some physical comedy that to me, even though it wasn't She obviously didn't make the movie camp or anything, you know,

but she did play an earnest character she was acting. Yeah, I mean she's she feels pretty grounded in reality to me, because there's a lot of really insane shit happening around her, and she does kind of acknowledge that. Like when Christian is trying to you know, bully her into becoming his submissive, she says to him many times like this is crazy.

She's what you're asking of me is insane. Yeah, she sometimes challenges him or sometimes he will say things that you think would be very shocking and she is like, um, very pointedly unfazed by it. Yes, but as in Twilight with with Bella and Edwards, like she's just so in love with him that she stays in this like you know,

controlling relationship. When we watched the movie together, I remember you saying at some point along our conversations about the film that, um, you feel like Anna, Anna Anna, that Anna has more agency than Bella. If we were to kind of compare and contrast these two entities a little bit, because I had no idea that Bella worked at a hardware store. Um, but Anna also works at a hardware store.

There are a lot of um parallels, you know, between these two films, but the actual like female lead, I guess, the the woman in the in the center of the films are very different. Yeah, well Bella. You know, outside of a few moments, Bella really goes along with what Edward wants her to do. She finds out he's a vampire, and she's like, okay, I'm going to become a vampire too.

I want to be with you forever. He leaves her a new moon and she just completely shuts down until another man enters her life and like inspires her to like build her confidence, which not to be a snob is like bad writing, because like the one thing you need a character to do is to like make decisions for themselves instead of just like letting things happen to them. But I guess also that is kind of I guess the charm of something like Twilight, and then it's comics.

She's comically disempowered. Yeah, and in fifty Shades like Yes, Anastasia is so in love with Christian that she allows a lot of his bad behavior, but she also at several moments is like I'm not doing this, um, but like she eventually is talked back into it, usually by him, like breaking into her home, like the one scene in the movie where she has broken up with him and

she comes home and he's like standing there with wine. Yeah, and you're like, what the and she never remarks upon the fact that he's broken into her home, and you know, Okay, So I, as I, as the virgins have probably picked up on, didn't love the movie. I think that one of the things that I struggled with. And I don't like, you know, I don't like yuck in people's yum. I'm not putting you on the stand and making you like

defend this movie or good luck that. Yeah. Yeah, But I feel like I have a really hard time with movies that come out in this day and age where all the entire engine and the entire stakes are like built around like a white guy's dick, you know what I mean, Like the to me, there is there's nothing in any of the character character's motivations outside of the fact that, like, you know, Jamie Dornan can really lay

the pipe. You know, that's kind of like what's going on in this film, and that I as much as I love comedies where the whole premise is like I want to fuck, you know, thinking about something like fleabag or like never have I ever or like something like that, I feel like there is like so much inside of there. There's not There's not a ton explored actually in the sex itself of the film, which is like kind of

the beating heart of what the franchise. Well. Yeah, and it's also like this universe that I personally can't empathize with, in which the most important thing in life is romantic love. Yeah, you know, these these two women, Bela Swan and Anastasia Steele put their love of these awful men before anything else, and that is that is the only thing in their life that that matters is the men they're in love with. Like if the Begdel Test had like a scoring system,

these would be like failing greats. Like they are like groundbreaking lee, like uncomplicated, like like female leads. I think another thing that really shook me. I don't know why it shocked me, honestly, it's kind of stupid, but like I said to you when you were watching, I was like, I knew, I've always known that this was a fan fiction of Twilight, but there really is like no frills, no decorations, like it is fun fixition, like lifted from

the blog onto this TV screen. And I think that that is why I was kind of sad, is that I kind of thought maybe I was gonna like the movie a lot because it would be one of those, you know, so it's good kind of moments, and it obviously was that in a lot of different ways. But I think I was kind of um taken aback by what I felt was a complete failure of the imagination to capture what is supposed to be a really tumultuous,

sexy affair, you know what I mean. And I use the word affair like lover's affair, not like a fidelity. So you think that they're boring, I think that it's

boring as fuck. And you said yourself that every single sex scene in all movies are really that vanilla because all the sex, every single for those of you that haven't watched, every single sex scene is basically the same thing that is restrained for like three seconds, for like three seconds, and then and then he does a little and then he just starts sucking her, yeah, and then they just have normal like there for the first thing they have sex is in Missionary what Well, that's because

she's that's because she's a virgin also, you know, like just just like just like Twilight, you know, fifty Shades has a big preoccupation with virginity. Of course it does, and that like kind of pure heroinism is like so ikey to me, and I think, honestly, the other thing that really gets me, what I was talking about earlier, is like the engine the film is like unfortunately and you and I disagree on this. Jamie Dornan looks like a fucking like he's in a fucking like target catalog.

Like I think he's so nondescript. He's not, He's on He's completely conventionally attractive. He is a catalog model. I do not see anything distinct about him in his body or in his face, and so I think that was another thing It's like I was like, wait, this is

the guy. Well, you know, it was originally supposed to be um Charlie Hoonan, who like is a little bit more rough around the edges than Jamie Dornan, but he backed out of the last minute because he, like what, didn't want the level of fame that he knew he

was going to get from being in these movies. I honestly don't know if Jamie Dornan has that level of fame, Like, yeah, he was he not known before this really or yeah, he he had been like on a couple of TV things and like since this movie, Yeah, he's in that big like black and white Oscar movie right now, Belfast, and like he's been in a couple of other things. He was in Barbon Star Um, which was you know, fun.

He has he he did not reach Robert Pattinson levels of fame, and he certainly isn't as famous as as Dakota Johnson, right And obviously you know, well that's what I was going to say, is that like Robert Pattinson is, even though you know, not a great actor in the Tylight movies, is like much more compelling. You disagree, you disagree on dangerous grounds whatever. Um he is. So he's like dark and stormy and mysterious. He sells us on this kind of supernatural dark horse trope, UM Cowboy from

Nowhere kind of thing that's going on. Um. But to me, it's like if I were to like recast Jamie Dornan, because obviously Dakota is perfect in the movie. If I were to recast Jamie, I think I would want someone like a like Adam Driver or Alexander's Scars Art, someone that we get into like that. It's funny that a hot person. It's funny that you bring up Adam Driver because Adam Driver is the focus of another filing off

the serial Numbers fan fiction turned successful novel. UM. So there's this romance novel that was huge, I mean still is. But like last year I think is when the Christendo peaked on book talk. It's called The Love Hypothesis and it's a Star Wars rayl fan fiction. Um. Ray Low is Kylo Wren and ray who are you know, the two leads of the newer Star Wars movies And there's like a big shipping community about them and lots of

fan fiction. And this romance novel was originally written as a fan fiction about them, and the author did the same thing, finding off the serial numbers, changing their names, and it's now like a hugely successful um romance novel had no idea and I did read it, wait you did it? Was you know, it was a nice way to spend a day. I literally read it in like, you know, forty eight hours. I think that that said.

What I'm trying to get at is I was, personally before watching a movie very excited about what can be explored in a power dynamic that I don't want to say blurs the line of consent. But in B D, S M and kink culture, which is not at all, you know, exemplified in this movie, there are much more nuanced approaches to how they talk about consent, because lack of consent can be someone's kink, you know what I mean,

like someone having a kind of being overpowered. Fantasy is something that is imbuted and always talked about intracommunally in B D, S M and kink stuff, and so I thought, you know, there would have been some of that explored, which I think is maybe explored in the books, but

not at all in the movie. I don't I don't think it is, but it also would have been interesting, like if it was like um, if the power dynamic was also like age related, like if it was more of like a daddy, like a like a Willem Dafoe, or like a it's all about capitalism, you know, it's like he has more money than her. You know, you did only watch the first movie, So I think it would be fun if I if I told you about what happens in the rest of the topline. For me,

I've literally never heard this before. Okay, well, first, before I say this, we do have to talk about the fact that Rita or is in these films. She has a She has a very brief cameo in the first film. She she plays christians sister Mia, who is Alice from Twilight, And we have to say when Rosa is very brief, she means like one to two lines. She also has a really like horrible she's wearing a really horrible wig. And also her introduction is inconsequential to anything in the movie.

The only reason she's in that movie is to set up the next two movies. Yes, so you know the first film ends with with Anastasia leaving Christian after she has asked him to show her how bad he wants to hurt her, and he like spanks her six times and he's like by um. So in the second movie like she very they very quickly get back together, like almost no time at all, um, but she's being stalked by one of his old submissives, um who is like

who is still obsessed with him. You also find out in the second movie, um more about his tragic backstory. So he well in the first movie like I think you will remember that he said that he is a crack baby. Basically, oh my god, he had an abusive mother who died when he was little. And you find out in the second movie that all of the women who he likes to dominate look like his mom. So so like he just has a really bad mobby issue.

Dakota Johnson does kind of look like a young mom. Um. You also in the second movie meet the older woman who inducted him into b d S M what so Kim Basinger plays Mrs Robinson who love that who you know, like basically was a pedophile and um made Christian her submissive when he was a teenager. And it's called Mrs Robinson to call back to the graduate um um. So in the second movie, Anastasia meets her and the wait in that relationship was he the submissive whoa okay okay?

And so Anastasia meets her and like hates her. Also, Christian asks Anastasia to marry him in the second movie because it's Twilight, and I also think the second movie is when he gets into a helicopter crash what but but survives um also um Anastasia has started working at a publishing house and her boss is super predatory and wants to suck her and eventually gets fired because he tries to assault her. Does Jamie Dornan like kill the

boss or something? No, But it continues on into the third movie because in the third movie you find out that the boss was so Christian was in you know, like the was in the system, is like in foster care and was adopted by his rich parents, the Grays, And I guess it turns out that the boss was like another possible kid they were going to adopt, and like feels that he should have gotten the life that Christian got and so he is like stalking Anastasia and

like trying to break into their home and then this is why it's important to mention Rita Aura. In the third movie, Rita or gets kidnapped by the boss does not, and Dakota Johnson has to by the by the boss um and then Dakota Johnson has to like navigate this hostage crisis and that's a perfect role for Yeah, And she like goes in, like she makes Christian think that she's leaving him and goes in withdraws all this money from their account so that she because they've gotten married

at this point, so she can save the sister. And then like she's oh and she's also pregnant. She gets pregnant in the last movie, and she like kicks her in the stomach, I think, and she thinks she's going to lose the baby. Also also very much like very much like in Breaking Dawn, Christian when he finds out Anastasia is pregnant, is really against it, um like because you know, in in Breaking Dawn, Twilight doesn't want Bella to have the baby because he thinks it's going to

kill her. Christian doesn't want Anna State should to have the baby because like he wants her to himself. But then you know, like after she gets kicked during a hostage crisis. He's like, oh, I want the baby. Um, your recounting of the trilogy is honestly more interesting than my entire experience of watching the film. Okay, but so the best part of the well, no, there's like a lot of great I would never says um. So the end of the final movie a childlike glee and wonder

on roses eyes. Right now. The end of the final movie is, um, you know, like a Christian has kind of like given up, you know, being a dom and you know, they think they've settled into this like normal life. And then when he comes home and um, Anastasia has like put the jenes that he always used to fuck

her and out on the bed. What kind of genes they're just they're just they're just jeans, They're they're kind of like a you know, they've got like a like like artful fading, you know, I would say their bootcut. And and then she and then she's waiting in the Red Room of Pain, which is what his playroom is called, like canonically is called the Red Room of Pain. Hate that, and she has now like decided she wants them to

be kinky again. And he says to her that she's topping from the bottom, and that's how the movie, that's how the franchise ends. No, it does. Yeah, you're kidding. Honestly, the thing one of my biggest well, okay, something that stuck out to me. I think it's so funny that she starts to work at a publishing house. When we

were watching the movie. You pointed out to me that Bella and Anna share the same three personality traits that they have, which is they are burnett, they are awkward, and they like to read clumsy clumsy right now different, different, different, so they both play it. The main the main difference is that Anastasia has bangs, right, That's that's actually huge huge.

She also is like very performatively not into the fact that her boyfriend is a billionaire, and every time he tries to buy her something, she's like, oh, no, I don't want this, which is like, are you kidding? If I if I felt if a billionaire fell into my lap in a workplace environment, the way I would ride and milk that man for all of his works, literally literally ride and milk. He bought he buys her car in the first film, and she gets like, oh, my god,

that was so weird too much. I can't take it. You have to take it back. I would text him and be like, actually, um, I asked for a jeep, I asked for a tesla. Things Also, like a car is not the kind of thing you can send back. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I guess not. But if you're really wealthy, I'm sure they are really easy ways to kind of exchange it. You can kind of do whatever you want when you're wealthy, apparently, but honestly, his him being a billionaire, obviously, it's it's

very good for fan fiction, it's very sensationalistic. Um, and it's good for the movies because they can do things like go like fly in a helicopter, like you know, he can like come surprise her on her trip with her mom. Right, oh yeah, I remember, yeah yeah, And I understand narratively what it does. But I think that it just, especially now, makes him such an ugly character.

I think again, when I when I said, like, I hate that the engine of the film is around, like you know, the fact that he's really great at sex, It's like I wish he had at least one more redeeming quality, like he I could actually buy into the fact that she's only here because he's amazing in the sack. If the sex scenes were actually good, Um, but they were just kind of you know, very sensual and like they sell it. I think it's performed well, but the

sex is like so lukewarm. I know, honestly, the movies would be so much more interesting to me if she was like a gold digger and just wanted him for his money, Like, then I could understand where she's coming from. I would get her motivation. And I even as I say this, it sounds like so ester, but there has you trying to like woke ify the movie. But no, no, but she has to be set up to be like not only um, you know, physically pure, but morally pure.

She has to she has to not want the money for him to be attractive to her the same way that like, even though he talks all this game about wanting her to be sexually experienced, when he finds out that she's a virgin, he like loses his mind and thinks it's the hottest thing ever, right, And which is I mean, which is so like which I don't understand

it all? Like I don't understand virginity being attractive. Okay, wait, let's talk about that very quickly before we get into the sex scenes, because this is like a virgin um and you are listening are the virgins, And we have to say we on this podcast, like the construct of virginity is like a concept that is like so archaic

and bizarre and weird and like puritanical. And I think that Twilight and fifty Shades and things like them exemplify what we as a culture kind of believe around what it means to have had or not have had sex.

And I think coming from where I'm at, it's like, I like, growing up, there is just a myriad of things that you know, my family would think are like morally you know, wrong, But I could watch some things on TV so long as they weren't sex, Like having sex before marriage was like v b all end all of like things that you absolutely like that is the worst possible thing you can do, and like, culturally we

subscribe to it. And it's so funny that these like women are so uncomplicated in their kind of puritanism that they feel like there are a construct of like the male imagination, when in fact they're both written by women. Um, which is kind of cookie. I think the reason I like kind of point that out is like to maybe get into the sex scenes of it all, Like this movie and it's a relationship to like b D s

M and kink is like virtually non exist. There is no relationship this is at all, And like I'm not I'm not a kinky person. I think it's like it's honestly just like two much work for me, Like kink is a whole lifestyle that you have to like. Well, I mean, it depends on your level, but like when you're as kinky as Christian Gray is being set up to be, like it's like a hobby, you have to invest a lot in it. I just don't have that

kind of energy or or attention span. And I am also like maybe not a member I'm kinky, but I'm not like a member of like the b D s M community that would speak. However, that being said, like even knowing very little about actual B D s M, I am well aware that this is not any kind of real depiction of what rose. I think you're selling yourself short because even though as we said, we're not like in that community, you and I, you know, used

to be sex writers. We used to be like people that worked in LGBTQ media, Like we actually do know a lot on this topic, and a lot of our friends are in this community. So I feel like, you know, I was able to really quickly see that there's just no absolutely no relation to what this woman's in like kind of fantasy of b d S M would be because it is so like it just feels like it's written by a fourth grader, yeah, when in fact it

was written by a fifth year old woman. And you know, a lot of the backlash around this movie that wasn't centered on like oh ha ha look at women being horny and how stupid that is, like ha ha um was from people who are actually in into b d S. I'm saying this is not a realistic depiction of of us at all. It's also a movie about contract negotiations, because like, that's the whole plot of the first movie, is him trying to get her to sign paperwork. It is the best scene in the movie. It's a really

good scene with yes. So there is a scene in which Anastasia has said that she wants to talk about the contract to become Christians submiths sibum, but she has some notes on the contract itself, so she asked for a meeting at his At his office, she shows up in this like very sexy dress and they have a meeting in a boardroom in which she tells him like she doesn't want to do anal or vaginal fisting. She goes to the contract line by line, which is honestly hot.

It's a very amazing scene. But I thought it was I was floored that she wouldn't do anal. I thought that was so lame, Like come on, like that's another It's like, come on, just like do anal, Like try some blood play, like just you know, get into it. I've never done blood play, not not on purpose. One time I was having sex with someone and like a, I don't know, we were a little too rough and there was like a little cut on Like was it, oh,

yeah it was. There was a cot on my dick, and after on your dick, it was like a very small sliver it like it like her a little bit, but I didn't really notice. Is very small. And after we were like kind of done, his his stomach was like covered in blood. He's like, where did this blood come from? Um? Anyways, No, I have never engaged in blood play. But I just like like the kind of key iterations of what the author slash filmmaker think is kank is essentially handcuffs, Uh, a whip, a writing crop.

I okay, I love a writing so I used to one that's very Oh really, there's this, but it was like only really to like I used to like bring it to parties when I was a club kid. There's this that's hot. That's a good look as well. Um, I there's this Ermes writing crop that I've been eyeing forever. It's vintage. Um it's but it's like think it's like six. You don't need a writing crop. But anyways, um, a writing crop, a whip, handcuffs. These are things that an

ice cube he does ice play. Oh yeah, ice play. Like I'm not trying to be a total bitch about it, but it's just like you are. These are things that at um, what you want is not necessarily is not cank. In B D s M culture, these are things that heterosexual couples in their forties and fifties introduced to their relationships to quote unquote spice things up. Like it's it's not b D s M. It's just not it's like

it's power play yeah yeah, which is yeah yeah. There are little things here and there where it's like this could be you know maybe, but it's just all of

it together just doesn't really work. And then I also feel like when like you know, the first kind of books came out, the b D s M culture was also responding to what is a completely unhealthy, slash inaccurate portrayal of consent in b D s M relationships because Anna's I think frequently saying she she frequently does things for Christian that she's not comfortable with because she's either too shy to speak her mind, or because she's afraid

of losing Christian, or because you know, she just like it, just doesn't have enough agency, even though she has more as to see than Bella. But you know that's not how b D s M has And when you do it the right way quote unquote has very you know, hard and fast kind of rules of communication and boundaries.

And I have found that my friends in b D s M culture have some of the healthiest relationships and or sex lives because they have to over communicate where those lines are where a lot of times people not in b D s M are too, just as the as portrayed in fifty Shades are kind of too scared to talk about those things because sex is embarrassing. Yeah, there's only there's only a passing mention of like safe words. They talk about it during the contract negotiation scene, like which,

like do they even really do safe words anymore? Like I mean, I I will say, like I have to admit that my only knowledge of b D s M comes from fan fiction because because because it is a true it is really a trope in in fan fiction.

And I have no idea if the understanding I have of b D s M is even true to life, and that it is like being written about through the lens of someone's own experience, or if it's literally just like teenagers making up what they think b D s M is, or like women playing out their fantasies through these characters, Like I have no idea if it's if it's real or not, because it's not something that like

I really engage in in my actual sexual life. So it could be that these ideas I have of what b D s M actually are could be totally fake. I would be really curious to see what would happen if someone who was maybe more of a b D s M communities mind would do with this film, like would would like um anified Christian Gray on like Field or something like you know for the I don't know if anybody if those listening, No, but there's like a dating app that's like so busted. The UX is so bad.

Well there, I mean, we do have to we do have to say there's a difference between kink and b D s M. Yeah, obviously, yeah, yeah, right, kink is maybe a bigger umbrella over a bunch of like sub umbrellas. And because I think they're there are plenty of people who are into kink who don't want b D s M. I don't want, who don't want power or pain to

be part of that sexual experience. Right. Um, I was gonna ask, have you ever have you ever like looked at Field or tried fields or like I've been on Field before, Like I mean I haven't had an account, but I've been on the website. It's it is. I mean, apparently it's supposed to be for people that are maybe kinky, but also maybe people that are polly and looking for

thirds question mark. The UX is so busted. And what is really weird about it is like pretty much everyone I've had too and I don't use the app, but like when I did try it, everyone I swiped on was just looked like some normy heterosexual couple, and I

was like, where like the queer people on this? Well, that's very that's very fifty Shades because you know, like I, it's it's funny to me that I like these movies so much when usually the reason that I am drawn to something like this is because I can catch a whiff of queerness, whether it's through like subtext or like

shipping some characters together or whatever. But Fifty Shades of Gray is so aggressively hetero, like there's no there's truly nothing gay about it except in the first movie when um Anastasia asked Christian if he's gay, right, and I think there's for some reason, that's the last time homosexuality is ever acknowledged. And slightly back to the Rita or of it all. You warned me about Rita Aura. You

did not warn me about Marsha Gay Harden. But I wanted it to be a surprise, not just Marsha Guy Harden, but Marsha gay harden also as a character that has literally no bearing on the plot of the first film at all, and I think has like one or two lines question mark she does. She is important later because, as I said, um, christians old lover is friends with his mom, and in the third movie, I believe she finds out about it and slaps her or like throws

a drink in her face, slaps his mom. No, no, no no, Marcia gay harden Um throws a drink in combasing her face because she finds out that she like preyed on her son when he was a teenager. Oh my god. Oh that is actually something that must be noted, is that like, um, people that are into this are not um should are not a product of like childhood abuse, you know what I mean. Like there's a pathologizing of Christian Gray. And yeah, Anastasia is very like preoccupied with

what the question why are you like this? Exactly? And I don't even want to like defend Christian Gray. He's a dick. He's a bad person, straight up, um, but like he It's It's true, like throughout the whole like kind of franchise, there is this kind of like hm hmm, this guy is fucked up and like there's something wrong with him, and and Anesthesia thinks she can fix him. Yeah, it's just so, and she wants to know when they'll be able to have a normal relationship. Yeah, I don't know.

It's just it's just it's not it's it doesn't work. So I think it's safe to say you won't be watching fifty Shades Darker and fifty Shades freed Man unless you tied me up and uh forced me to watch. I would only do it with your consent. Of course, I most likely will be going home and watching them immediately after we finished recording, because tis the season fifty Shades. They are Valentine's Day movies. They are what I like to watch this time of year, and I love them

so much period, And I hold stay for that. Thank you. I really appreciate you holding space for me. I really appreciate you gaping for me. No, not that. We will be back next week with a discussion on Jagged Little Pill the album slash. We kind of get into the musical a little bit too, with none other than Charlene Incarnet, renowned drag artist and friend of ours who has come on a pod because she is honestly the expert on all things Atlantis. Um, you can tell us what you

like about this week's episode. Did you watch the Shades? Yeah? Are you? Are you? And Anna? Are you a Christian? Um? Are you a Rita? Are? Do you like fan fiction? What fan fiction would you like to see adopted into a major film franchise next? I identify as a Marsha of course. Um, you can tell us what to talk about next, whether it's a show, a book, a cultural phenomenon we want to hear from you. Call to confess at three to three Pennance. That's read too three seven

two six to three. I'm your co host fran Toronto and you can find me at Franz squish code wherever you want on social media, I'm Rose Damn You. You can find me at Rose Damn You on Instagram, Twitter and TikTok. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen and leave us a rating on Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is an I Heart radio production. Our producer is inter with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Cranechitch and Nikki Etour Until

next week see you later. Virgins