From Twink to Twunk

heroes like Hercules. I like, Well, we have been visited by the muses and they have inspired us to talk about Greek mythology, which is I think like one of the earliest things we talked about doing on this podcast because it's something that we both are obsessed with, obsessed with and also just like is not in the culture as much as it should be, you know, like it

is and it always has been. And I do think we'll we'll talk today a little bit about how um, Greek mythology is something that you know, artists are always coming back to, always like breathing new life into because of the universal nature of these stories. But we're really going to talk about it all, from Hercules to you know, Madeline Miller and everything in between because this is like a Virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture

and in today's case, ancient pop culture. Today's takes. I'm Rostamu and I'm Fran Toronto. Something I'm always scared of is getting murdered in an Airbnb. Um. I'm not always scared of getting murdered, because sometimes I'm like whatever, I'm ready for the solid to be over. But airbnb is,

I think are particularly chilling. And that's why I liked the premise of Barbarian, which friend and I just saw yesterday, because it does run with that idea of when you go stay at someone's house, you never really know whose house you're staying in. And also the people who own the kind of homes that are turned into Airbnbs don't even really necessarily know what homes they're living in. Yeah, if you haven't watched the trailer to Barbarian, you'll you'll

get the premise immediately. But it's just so in real life, like it is a real thing that could happen to you when you book an Airbnb. And and now I'm terrified of airbnbs, And honestly, I just hope that this continues to irreparably damage Airbnb as a corporation. Like, I think that we should make more horror films and TV shows that make us scared of booking Airbnb. Okay, so for the Virgin spoiler alert, we're gonna talk a little bit about Barbarian here. So Barbarian is about a woman

who rents an Airbnb. It turns out someone is staying there. It's built ours guard a k. A. Pennywise, who is really hot also terrifying. Yeah, I think he's hotter as Pennywise to be honest um, And he's like, oh no, it's fine, Like let's both stay here, and then some weird ship happens in the house. She goes to investigate, finds this secret basement that leads to another secret basement, another secret basement. Literally is like it's a comically scary hallway.

It's like, actually, like something that could be so simple and so cliche in a canon of horror films, but like it's so well done and really scary. Yes, And the more I have sat with it, the more I have really liked it and thought it was a really good movie and really well done. The parts in the basement we're kind of reminding me of have you ever seen The Descent? I haven't, one of my favorite horror movies.

It's so scary, and the scariest part of it to me is the claustrophobia of them being underground, not even really the monsters. I thought the lead actress was really good. She was very funny, and this was like one of her I mean, she's done a handful of horror and action of for but like, I think this was like

such a moment for her. Yeah. And I liked that they introduced the Justin Long character, who was like a horrible person and is by the end of the movie more monstrous than the actual monster who is the monster of the film. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and without giving too much away, like something else that I love about that. I mean, aside from the fact that like they make this Airbnb like multi property manager seemed like a complete asshole, which like we need more representation for like asshole airbnb

property managers. They they haven't had their they haven't had

their do um. But the if you watch the trailer for the film, it sets you up to think that the movie is going to be one thing, and then the movie drastically changes twice and kind of almost switches protagonists for a moment, and um, I just think that that is something that I will always want to watch, what no matter the genre, like someone who is willing to break the form of a film and like Foura into something just because they really wanted to surprise the audience.

Because on its face, it's a pretty simple premise and it's really just the way that it's executed that I think elevates it to being a very good horror movie. Yeah, and like honestly slightly less simple. Um, we're on a roll, like in terms of scary movies this week, it's speaky season. So Rose had been telling me to watch X, a movie that came out how many months ago? It came out earlier this year. It came out in the spring.

They shot it in New Zealand and had rented this farm for a certain amount of time, and I guess it took them not as long to shoot it as I thought they did. So t West or Tie West, however you pronounced his name and Mia Goth were like, wait, let's also make a prequel film while we have the space, and he and Mia Goth wrote it together, which is did they write it on Saturday. Did they just kind

of figure out I think they. I think I think they wrote it during their their quarantine before filming, and it has now been announced there's going to be a third film. Max Sine um I. Maxine is the character that Mia Goth plays a X, the corn star character who survives. She's the final girly. I think it's a really good filmmaker muse situation where they they clearly work very well together, because I will say I really loved X when I watched it a couple of weeks ago,

and then I loved Pearl even more. Yeah, okay, Mia Goth as a muse. I think it's the perfect way of explaining why both of these movies shine so hard. Um okay. So X is basically about a film crew that is shooting a porno. They want to rent a farm. The farm happens to be inhabited by two of the oldest,

creepiest people you've ever seen in your entire life. They're so old that they look like corpses, and the movie, without revealing these like the older woman Pearl to you too far in advance, is able to build a dramatic tension that is like so weird and so specific and like fully reliant on like how eerie she looks and um, you know, but also how eerie she acts, because I don't think old people are you know, creepy in and of themselves, but Pearl throughout the movie wants the youth

that these people possess. Like first, she tries to fuck like literally everyone there, and they're all like, you're disgusting, and so then she decides to kill them all except for Miagoth's character Maxine, who the creepiest scene in the movie is when she gets into bed with her Oh my god, it scared me. But also the movie I thought was also really funny. Brittney Snow, Britney Snow, you will always be famous Britney Snow tour. In this film,

she was a revelation. Her cover of Landslide was amazing. Um kid Cutty was great. Also, that girl Jenna Ortega, who's in literally everything, was in this I thought her death scene was pretty satisfying. And the gag of the movie you don't know in advance um is that the protagonist of the movie, Mia Goth, also plays the old woman in prosthetics at the same time, so she is simultaneously the hero and the villain of the story, which

I think is so brilliant and so Pearl. The movie is a prequel of the older woman's character Pearl in origin story and and finding out how she got to this point of being this woman who clearly has a life full of wasted dreams. And I thought, this is the kind of movie that we don't see anymore. You know, it's a it's a deeply psychological thriller, character study. It's not even really a horror movie. It's not really that horrific.

But I thought it was fascinating. I loved the way that they mimicked the technicolor movies of the wartime era. Mia Goth was transcendent um. The scene with the scarecrow, Yeah, that was that was That was crazy. A scene where she kills the guy and yells at him and she's like, she's like really, well done, so good and then her he's so hot. Um. And then of course Mia goths six minute monologue at the end, how did you know? Six minutes? Is it? Like people are talking about it

on Twitter. Incredible And you know, we'll have to wait and see what Maxine is like. But this might be the kind of thing where the whole is better than the some of its parts, and the some of its parts are still really good. So I'm very excited to

see how it all shakes out. We have a new episode of House of Dragon, and which holes were very important because it opened with older rain Era giving birth and then having to walk longer than I've ever walked in my life up all those stairs, um, having just given birth. This episode was really good. I really liked the introduction of the new actors. What I am finding with House to the Dragon, though, is that it has a serious pacing problem. It is moving through this stuff

too fast. I keep seeing stuff on Twitter and on TikTok of scenes that were cut. I think we could have gotten so much more character development. I didn't like that we never got to see any interaction between Rania and Harwin Strong, who secretly her lover and the father of her bastard children. Um. But this show, it continues to be great and like it is Sunday night appointment television,

and everyone's acting is incredible. I really liked the introduction of Emma to r C who plays older Ranira, and their non binary which I love to see, and also The actress who plays the younger Allison is queer, and even said in an interview that she played Allison as being in love with Rania. So I wow, that's so. I mean, like I as sometimes I hate like batty things. But when it's like the actor saying that, not like the creator like just trying for like pr or whatever, like,

I love that. I uh, I will agree and also disagree about like the page Well, okay, I actually fully agree with you on the pacing thing. Um. I think watching this episode in particular, where we jump forward in time, I'm kind of like, what's your rush, Like, we're gonna get seven more seasons? I don't think we That's the thing is. I think because they know of what happened with Game of Thrones, I think this will be a

much more contained show, and I would imagine three. And I think what they're rushing to get to is the actual Dance of the Dragons, which is the Targarrian Civil War. And so most of the season so far has been spent setting up what's going to happen, because all of the action of the Dance of the Dragons, like the stuff that we're seeing happen now in the source material is like one line, it's like this person died, this happened, and most of the bulk of this is what happens

in the actual war. And I understand why they're rushing because they know how soured people were on the way Game of Thrones ended. But that being said, what Game of Thrones always did so well with character development, and they have done a really good job developing these characters. It's just that they're doing it so fast, and I wish there was a little more room to breathe. Yeah, the reason I almost like disagree with you was because I don't feel like the pacing is unsuccessful, you know

what I mean, Like I don't watching it. I'm like, even though it feels quote unquote rushed, like I don't watch it and feel like, oh, I don't really know who what this character wants are, Like, Like I don't really I really wish I had seen you know what I mean? Like it's it earns the pace that it gives, But I just think that it would be so much fun to watch a lot of the things that they skipped. I know, it's not that I don't like what I have,

It's that I want more of a good thing. And also some things it's not that they feel unearned, but like the way this episode ends with Lena Valerian instructing her dragon to kill her because she knows she's going to die from childbirth. Like it's an amazing scene. How much more amazing would it have been if we had spent that much more time with that character and really understood what she and her family were losing. That being said, I'm addicted. I you know, we will be watching next

Sunday as well. I really did not think I was going to get addicted to, Like I thought that Rings of Power was going to be my appointment TV. And lo and behold, this is actually satiating the thing that I want out of that show, which we're not. We're not going to talk about that brings rings era Well, we'll see. I mean, the thing about Rings of Power is like they could make seven episodes and I will watch them all. You know what I mean. But but

you know, it's just not that good. It's not that good. Speaking of things that not that good. Um, we saw don't worry Darling, and that was that was that was a red herring transition because the gag of gags is I actually really liked it. Well, I mean there's nuance to that, there's nance to that. It's but I also kind of like did quote unquote, but I don't think that's how I felt when I left the theater. I think I felt the way I felt when I left the theater was the same as the guy that was

in our theater. When the credits role the movie ends, there is two seconds of silence and you see a guy walking already exiting the theater before the like right as the credits roll, and he goes, what a piece of shit? It was like a lot of very funny. The whole audience left, but like that's but this is what I'm saying is that is very exemplar or of the whole thing around this movie. That guy did that

for the lull. That guy did that to be a troll, And that is how everyone is interacting with this movie, which actually, if there wasn't all of this drama build up to it would have been perfectly fine. It's a perfectly fine film. It's also what I will say is I totally get what Harry Style said. It is a movie that feels like a movie. It's that kind of like go to the theater and watch a movie movie he spelled. It is like that. Okay. I think that

the things that worked. Olivia Wilde's directing was very good. It's a beautiful movie. The music is great. Some of the things that aren't good are the right script, the script which Olivia Wilde didn't write. I saw some interesting TikTok's which were about how this movie there. This was a story that Olivia Wilde brought and her writing partner rewrote. And in the original it's much less feminist, and um,

the originals less feminist. Yes, the original does what I wish this movie had done, which is that you know much earlier in the story about the reveal which spoiler alert if you haven't seen, don't worry darling. Well, I mean, can we back up actually, because like I um feel like despite the months of like controversy we've had around

this film, no one actually knows what it's about. And like I think that if you don't know what it's about, it's basically like a kind of intention community called the Victory Project is living in a nineteen fifties esque kind of like community where the husbands go off to work. You don't really know what they're doing all day, and the wife stay at home, and they've all agreed to be a part of this constructed cultish community that is kind of in the middle of the desert. Question Mark

and Florence, It's it's giving. Joshua Tree actually, like basically, Florence Pew carries the dramatic tension of this film by kind of starting to notice an investi the things that

are like off or weird about this community. And that's basically which which is the inciting incident of this is that one of her friends in the community, played by Kiki Lane, has suffered what seems to be some kind of mental break And UM, I bring this up because the latest round of drama in all this is that Kiki Lane recently posted on Instagram that she was cut

from most of the movie. Um, which is kind of fucked considering that she's one of the names on the poster and yet she hasn't been involved in any of the press, but she was used to sell this movie, and I do have to wonder if that's because she's the only notable black lead and so even though her part was cut down to almost nothing and very much kind of fills the stereotype of being the like magical black person who sets the white protagonist on their journey

of self discovery. She was cut from this movie but was still used to sell it, and I'm glad she posted about it because when she did, I was like, you can tell that she was cut, Like there is god. I kind of want to get into the weeds to be honest, Like, as you said, this is the inciting incident. And there's a moment where Florence is like, my friend died spoiler alert, my friend, Like this happened to my friend.

It's like, actually, like there's nothing in the movie that would suggest that you were friends, like really, like like she called, you were like a lot of things rather than being shown Yes, it's very stupid. Um, I felt like the ending is such a fart that I couldn't in totality enjoy what the movie was giving us. Well, they felt like it was so lazy and cliche and

not earned. Well, this is going back to what I said before, which is that I really believe that the twist at the end of this movie, and spoiler alert again for anyone who hasn't seen it, what's revealed is that the victory Project is a simulation that has been created by like Jordan's Peterson esque in cells to trap women in and so their their literal partners. Well not always,

because they do. Say when Harry Styles is out in the real world and is like getting into it, they're like, pick a woman who you have some kind of existing relationship with, so it could be you know, your girlfriend, your wife, it could be just like a friend of yours, and they're they're kidnapping these women and putting them in a simulation. The men have to care for these women

and it's funny. So Fran sent me a voice memo last night asking me about some of this stuff, like how the women piss and ship in the simulations if you like the images, Like the simulation is literally like Harry Styles and Florence Pe laying in a bed with their like eyes applied open and like some sort of like you know, VR being like projected into their eyes, and it's like if they're laying there like their whole lives like, but but they're not, because that's the whole

point is that she is. But he when he goes to work every day, that that's him live leaving the simulation and they asked him, will you be able to get a job to support this? Will you be able to take care of your wife? So I'm assuming he's going out into the real world every day to work some like stupid job, and then he comes home to his slave wife laying in bed and he probably like cleans her bedpan or her diaper, my god, and like what refills her food catheter? Like that's never explained. That's

never explained. And this all goes back to my point I've been trying to make, which is that I think the reveal of the simulation would happen much earlier in the movie. And in the original script it does and

you know, almost the whole film. So in the original script, the first time that Alice breaks through the portal, she finds out and then she goes back and kind of keeps figuring out more and more and like goes out again and comes back, and and I think that would have been much more effective, because look, this is very clearly uh kind of I'm not gonna say rip off,

but heavily inspired by The Stepford Wives. And the thing about the Stepford Wives is that you know what's happening, you know what's happening in The Stepford Wives very early on. You know that there's something about robots, that the men are killing their wives, replacing them with robots, And the tension doesn't come from the reveal. The tension comes from this woman knowing what's happening and still making these choices and trying to save herself, trying to save her friends,

trying to save her children. So I think that if the reveal had happened much earlier in the film, there would have been so much tension inherent in Florence trying to figure out not only how to save herself, but how to save the other women, trying to figure out why this happened to her, And I think it just would have been a much more interesting thing if the whole movie didn't hinge on the Oh my god, it was a simulation, because I think I think that's the

least interesting part of the movie. It's if your movie ends in a and it was all the simulation, like go back to film school. I'm sorry, Like that is just not how movies can end. It's how movies can begin. Because yeah, because I think something that's much more interesting would have been. I thought Olivia Wilde was actually really good in the movie, and one of her best scenes was towards the end you find out that she's known

about the simulation the whole time. She's the only one who's known, and she's decided to stay because her children have died in the real world and now she has them in the simulation. And I think so much more could have been drawn out of that if you knew earlier, and you could have spent more time with her and the implications of that, and like are there other women that know, or like what is the thing with the children?

Like there should have been clues about her children dying, Like she should have mentioned something earlier in the movie about like them being fragile or like something like that. It's just there. There were a lot of missed opportunities. But all that being said, it's still a pretty good movie, and all of the drama surrounding it is just kind of stupid. I think, well, I'll say perfectly fine. First of all, the fact that it's like not the nineties

and is in the present day. I guess in like the first three minutes of the movie, like it's literally the twist of like the village, And I was like this is like I thought maybe it would be to cliche. Um, the plane crashing that happens never explained, Like what was that? The Jemma Chan who's like loveling this movie but also kind of feels kind of cut from the movie, has a moment where she stabs Chris fine as you have no idea? Why no idea? Why is it because she

also wants to escape? Is it because she was in charge the whole time? Like that would have been more interesting twist? And it's just this movie thinks that you care about the wrong things. Yeah, exactly. Then what the movie wants you to care about is not what the audiences I think care about. Um. And also Harry Styles was like fine as an actor. I actually would say the Harry Styles was wonderful and I really enjoyed him, and like I felt like he was one of the

I thought, obviously Shyla buff would have been better. He would he would have been better because he would have sold the like doting husband at the beginning, But then he would have been incredible as the in cell. He would have been so believable as this loser, misogynist who would kidnap and rape his wife. That's also something that

ever addressed. That's also something that's never addressed. And you know, Olivia Wilde for the past year has been talking about how feminist and empowering the sex scenes in this movie are. And now that we know what this movie is really about, Um, Olivia Wilde, those are rape scenes. So it doesn't really matter that the woman is the only one coming because she's being raped. So maybe stop like touting that as it being like a feminist reclaiming of sex scenes in cinema.

And also, I mean, the one thing that Harry did not carry was when Harry styles as an insult you and I were gig it was very funny. It was fucking funny. Um. And I bet that's what his Harry looks like in real life, haven't I heard the two us? Oh there's a whole there's a conspiracy theory that he's bald. I will not believe it. But anyways, Um, I actually think Harry was really good and I don't really feel like that the dig on his acting was that earned

because the character does have a British accent. The character is British. Yeah, the whole British thing was some kind of twitter red Harry yeah, although I guess he was American in the real world and chose to be British in the simulation. Oh is that because they asked him what nationality he wanted to be and he wrote British.

Oh okay, that's interesting. Um yeah. I also wondered, like if something was changed during the production because Harry's American accent is like so bad, But like I don't know, um, but yeah, I don't. I felt it was perfectly fine. Not a movie to revisit. No, but Kate ber Land, you will always be famous. She's perfect Virgins. I know that podcasting is an auditory medium that you can't see us right now, but if you could see us, you

would see that. Today, for our discussion on Greek mythology, Frand and I both thought we were going to get going to goop each other by each bringing our copy of de Laire's Book of Greek Myths, which is like the book that we all you know, it is a sacred texts foundational text and truly like is the genesis of this episode, and it's just so funny that we both were like, I have a surprise for you, bok that like a bunch of nerds like sucking nerds coming

to school, like and as soon as we brought the book up. Also are amazing engineer Clay who's here shout out to Clay Um also recognized it. So truly, this

book is omnipotent universal the culture. I think like if you were a kid, and if you were like a millennial kid, um, you know, this was something that was part of your you know, culture, it really was, and I think that, like, I mean, this was taught in my school actually, like we had a lesson on it in fifth grade, and I was like, I already read that book, Like I remember being like so ericant about it,

but I definitely got this after seeing Disney's Hercules. And Disney's Hercules is for sure the thing that sparked my interest, and I guess probably our generation's interest with Greek mythology,

which is what we're talking about today. I mean, sure, it's slightly predated by the Hercules TV show and it's spin off, Zena Warrior Princess, which also were very mythology, but I think we were we were a little too young for those, Like I didn't really watch I kind of watched Zena and I had a Zena action figure. At some point I had a Hercules video game for

my Sega Genesis, so that was an ancient Hercules. The Disney movie, No, it was like it was the TV show video the video game for Sega Sega starring Kevin Sorbo. Horny Horny show. It was very horny. I mean, as was Zena. But Zena was lesbian horny. Yes, yeah, honestly,

I mean lesbian cannon. I would say, like the most sapphic like kind of homoerotic thing that existed in that dan age, like Zena was, I think in lesbian culture at the time, like a mascot, like was emblazoned on you know, lesbian T shirts and paraphernalia and stuff like that that people would subculturally share in like wink wink. Also, Xena fan fiction was huge really at the time. Yes,

I have heard this from fan fiction scholars. But um, for the purposes of this episode, I do think starting with Disney Hercules as the root of this lifelong obsession an interest is very important. Um, you know, Hercules was I don't know if you know this, but like kind of a flop in terms of Disney movies, because you know, this is sort of the tail end of the Disney Renaissance,

which like when the classics ended. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Because so the Disney Renaissance of the nineties like really began with The Little Mermaid, which came out in eight nine. Um, But it wasn't until I was actually, um listening to a podcast about this the other a. You know, Disney movies really only existed to basically like create I p to sell merch off of um, And it wasn't something where Disney thought that they were like profitable in and

of themselves. And it was only with Beauty and the Beasts huge critical and commercial success that Disney movies became something that were financially successful in and of themselves, and like Disney became an entity that wasn't just selling merch and theme parks, but like movies. So I guess that's how you get something like Hercules, which is obviously one of the Disney movies that's like supposed to be for boys for boys boys derivatory. Um, it's very you know

because like princess movies are like about princesses. Clearly, Um, when you look at Hercules, it's very obviously to me supposed to be a sports movie like Hercules is supposed to be you know, a Nikes and analog for like Michael Jordan's or like any of the sports heroes at the time, and that's very much seen in the movie and things like zero to Hero, which that song is literally all about, like the cultures celebrity around sports figures, which I think is like such a smart modernization of

like the movie because it has that kind of Aladdin esque like wink wink, here's all this contemporary humor you can enjoy. Like, I just think that's so smart to think about Hercules as like the Lebron of his time, you know, or like that that he had that superstardom that turned into merch, which is really funny that you

are mentioning that. You know, they were like Disney was trying to crank out movies to sell merch because infamously Jack Nicholson was supposed to be Hades in Hercules, and they ended up not giving him the role because his management demanded fifty of Hades merch sales, and instead of came James Woods, who is a pervert and a horrible person, one of the worst people on the internet truly, um but he and he did sound good. I like, obviously I loved all of the Disney movies that came before this.

I love the Disney Princess movies, but Hercules really captured my imagination in a way that that the others hadn't. And I think with Hercules, the thing was like, yes, with the movies that are based off of fairy tales, like you can go back and read the originals, um, but there's sort of like a limited amount of source material to turn to. And with Greek mythology, with Hercules, you find out that there's literally like a whole culture to explore and all of these stories, bottomless pit of

myths and sub myths and sub sub myths. Yes, and so this book, like Hercules, was the entry point for sure. And then Dolores Book of Greek Myths was you know, like the rabbit hole to go down. Oh yeah, And like you and I avid readers, like I remember reading this book like just blowing through it. You know, it's a picture book, but it still has a lot of text.

But I remember blowing through it and being like, there has to be more books on Greek mythology, and there were, and there were, I mean, this is the one that makes it the most accessible for children, because you know,

Greek mythology is famously very fucked up. Dark, dark, dark, which I think kind of leads us to one of the things I wanted to talk about as like an entry point in this discussion, which is how Greek mythology is different from other kinds of mythology, and how Greek gods are different from other pantheons and why culturally we keep coming back to them. And you know, obviously there's a lot of scholarship on this, and I think like the big thing is that the Greek gods act like humans,

Like they have very human passions and vulnerabilities. They're like very petty and jealous, and they have all of these like interpersonal dramas, and their constly flying down from Olympus like rape and abduct somebody adult. There's so much like adultery, so much mess, so much like turning mortals into animals for pretty much no reason for from ye to cover up rape. Yeah, I mean, we we'll we'll get into that, um.

But the darkness that you're getting out of Greek mythology and why I think it's different from other mythologies, has a lot to do with the fact that it predates the colonization of the world, right, it predates the popularization of Christianity, And so these myths existed at a time where there was no lexicon around same sex sex, right, there was no there was no like rape was fine, unfortunately, like having sex with boys was like totally chill, but like on top like in addition, as long as you

were chill about it. Also, it must be said that there's no sort of like unlike the Bible, there's no like foundational text Greek myths, and a lot of these are folk tales that come from a lot of different cultures that were woven into the Greek like social cultural identity and like formalized into these tales. But like there's no definitive telling of all of them. And like sure, a lot of like the you know, like great play rights and like thinkers wrote down their version of them.

People says Metamorphoses not a foundational text but one of

the most known compilation. But they're still pretty loosey goosey, and the details really do differ from telling to telling, which I think is like why there's so much fun and why Greek mythology has really lent itself, so, you know, naturally to all of these contemporary adaptations, right, And I kind of think what is really beautiful and the thing that I was so attracted to about Greek mythology then and now is you know, obviously we look back at

Greek times and there are things you're like, oh, that's not how we act today when it comes to like pedophilia or like enslaved people are like how women are treated. But like, in addition to the bad stuff, there was also just a really rich, beautiful hiddenism that like really UM injects itself into like all of these myths that make them so messy and such a joy to read because they're not beholden to the um colonist ideas of purity,

purity morality. Yeah, like all the certain things, there's a lot of sucking, and there's a lot of it all is well sucking, fucking h drugs, drinking like orgies, like war like reality, yes, like killing, going create, like losing your mind to the point that you literally tear people to shreds, crazy parties, killing people like it's nothing like

wars um anger like. And I think that that unfettered emotionality makes great stories, right, even if it's like crazy to read, You're like this is these are good stories and um, you know in comparison to other mythologies or when we think about like a Hans Christian Anderson, right, like those like the Little Mermaid o G. Little Mermaid or the O G. Cinderella, like those are really dark

and also very Christian. Like the Little Mermaid. The whole thing with the original Little Mermaid is that the story ends with her turning into c foam because she doesn't have an immortal soul. And then she does get like lifted up into heaven and well she gets lifted up to like purgatory for two hundred years and then she finally gets to have an immortal soul and go to heaven.

I hadn't heard that version, but yeah, it's all about the afterlife and Christianity, but it still has that the darkness of the you know, she was supposed to stab the prince and like doesn't she like there's something about cutting off her feet or something, and in Cinderella the sisters have to cut off their toes or whatever, like uh, you know, but like the thing about Greek mythology is that like it has the nastiness without the kind of

like judgment of it, yes, the judgment. Yeah, and because and like also just like queerness and like gender fuckory, like so many gods, not in the Delarues version, but like in other versions of Greek myths, Like there's so much queerness and so much kind of like gender fuckory among God's heroes stories and all that jazz and Disney hercules to go back to, you know, the jumping off point is not explicitly queer, but like it's the queerest fucking story. I mean it should literally be called from

Twink to Twine. A twink who doesn't know his biological parents, feels that there's something out there more for him, a community that he belongs to because he doesn't belong in this and then has like a sassy best friend who like doesn't really want to date him because she thinks

there's like a little something off about him. He has a hairy mentor who like kind of wants to fuck another like older man who wants to suck him God, And but I remb member as a kid, I definitely caught onto that yearning, um that you know, there's something something wrong with me, Like I need to find something

greater than myself and the possibility. You know. The I Want song to Go the Distance is, which is a beautiful song, way too short, way too short, and the interlude not the best song in the in the movie though that that is won't salam in Love, wont sam in Love of course, one of the greatest songs ever written. And also I will say with Go the Distance, the

interlude makes it really difficult to do for karaoke. Um as well, It's kind of like, um uh, the song from Mowanna To, which is split up into like three different versions that all happen at different parts of the movie. Right. I need I need the kind of karaoke cut of Go the Distance because it's exactly in my vocal range and I can really nail it really like they should there should be a sort of part of your world

version of it all together. Yeah, exactly. Um, but I mean Hercules is hot, Like let's say that, like I'm very horny for Hercules, as Meg is really hot to another sort of bisexual jumping off point. And Meg's like kind of self assuredness which we had never really seen in the Disney Cinematic universe before. In a female lead, and because she very distinctly says that she's not a princess. Yes, yeah, we hadn't seen a Disney, a female Disney character at

that point who wasn't a princess. And like now in today in Disney, we have this whole sort of meta thing where we have these heroines who are constantly saying I'm not a princess, like literally in the movies, say things like that. And I think Meg was kind of the first version of that. She did it first, She

did it first. She said she did it without the need to be like wink wink consumers, No, but she was but literally like I'm a damsel, I'm in distress, I can handle it, have a nice day like that girl. Let's watch it right after that, honestly. But the thing fortunately about that movie is I do know almost every word of that movie, like the dialogue and songs, and I it's really hard to not engage. And I think people that do that during movies are insufferable. Maybe, but

I have to. I have to tell you. I think I've told you this, but I've never said it on the pod Hercules Disney. Hercules is in my bona fide top five like albums of films of all time. I got it. It honestly, at a certain point in my life could have been in mind. I love it, you know, I really love the Fates. They were very very important to me as a child's representation matters, it really does, you know. It's the James Woods of it all does

make Hatie suck. But like Haiti's is such a good villain and so fucking funny, great amazing line reads, and a villain that you know is kind of the comedic relief, like we don't see that as much with other is Evelance before you know he because you have Ursula, but she's not comedic, you know, she's I mean, she's sassy. But like Hades is like every single line he has is a joke. Where Ursula it's like I'm fabulous and I have a few winky winks, which is scar to like.

I think, you know all these queer coded villains, is Hades queer coded? I think I could, I could. There's certainly an argument to be made for it. I would think, I would say so personal. I think he wants to Hercules. I mean everyone wants to fuck Hercules. Hercules. Um, I mean honestly. But the uh the original story of Hercules I think is herk was born out of wedlock and Harra found out Athena fucking narc probably a Fenna is the cop of great She probably was like guess what

Zoos did again? And like, you know, had Hercules banished or whatever? And actually now it's a ab all are about but like, actually, though, I mean there's another. I'm pretty Athena was the one that fucked over Medusa. Medusa was you know, raped and then um by Poseidon and then Athena was like, guess what happened, um, Medusa? Her body is desecrated, let's banish her. And then she was a priest. She was a priestess. Yes, oh I didn't

know that, I um. And then she you know, and then SEUs was like or someone was like, your head is snakes now, like as punishment for being raped, well, most of Greek pathology is just women being punished for being raped, yes, and then covering it up and like either like saying something about it and being punished literally saying nothing about it and being punished, or being turned into animals or turning themselves into trees to escape the

threat of being raised. I mean this is what um we've talked about this before in the on the podcast, and like we will get into a discussion of you know,

like adaptations of Greek mythology. But Um Wake Siren is a really great book of short story is that are retellings of Ovid tales and they're basically it's basically all about sexual violence, um and and like those stories from a very contemporary perspective because like Greek mythology, like the women are treated horribly as women in that society were, and that book is like a kind of reclamation or nuancing of you know, stories that didn't have the historical

context to nuance them at the time. You know, like that these conversations didn't exist. Conversations about rape didn't exist, Conversations about you know, Peter Asty didn't exist, conversations about like the word homosexual is a very new invention. Right. Also, even the term rape, like in classic tales, like does

not always mean rape. Like like you know, like there's a very famous statue called the Rape of Persephone that depicts Haiti is pulling Persephone into the underworld, but like, based on various translations, it's rape, is not necessarily like always about sexual violence. Like sometimes it's about like a

woman being kidnapped against her consent. And so the idea of rape and like it's sexualization is like kind of murky in in Greek myth but in basically like gods were always stealing these mortals away to do something with them against their will because to them they were just like pretty playthings. So you have something like the Guinea Maade story, right, and I was just like or like the rape of Io, who like gets turned into a bowl? Oh right, They're always getting turned into I mean that's

literally what Ovid's metamorphosis about. It's about all of these different figures in Greek mythology who transform and metamorphosized, getting turned into different turned into Medusa's into swans, Peacock's trees, trees, spiders, yes, spiders, all that jazz. Greek mythology is very trans Which do

you think are the hottest kind of god? Okay? So the god that I truly would want to fuck, and I have thought long and hard about this is Hephaestus, because you know someone who can fuck the goddess of love and like really throw it down, who also is like hammering metal in a smith all day, a working class himbo. Truly, that's who Hephaestus is, Like, that is the god that I want to suck. Who would play

a Festus in like a modern day adaptation. It's kind of giving, like a like working class him It's kind of maybe not Adam Driver, because like Adam Driver's cast into everything, but it kind of because Adam Driver would suck Aphrodite, you know, like, but I also think like Hephaestus would be like kind of ugly, um, I mean out of Driver, it's kind of ugly. But the thing is if you can lay yeah, he's got shovel, I

mean he can lay that pipe. I want to know what your other answers are, but I was gonna say, my my guests for you actually would have been argust This girl. I'm holding up a picture of Greek mythology. It's the guy, the guy who's covered an eye, the guy that that's covered in eyes. He's hot in this illustration too, if you want to google Argus de Laire's book of Greek myths. Um and then also, like I do think I would be into Hara because of her

mommy vibe. Jealous mommy jealous mommy vibes like she would own my ass literally like fifty of like myths are just like Zeus cheating on her and her having a rage stroke and killing or transforming someone, And I would love for her to take that energy out on me. I think she. I would love to have Hara make me cry. Honestly, there is a a really good Hara

adaptation somewhere because her a limited series. Yes, because every single story she's in is her as this shrew who hysteric, hysterical shrew who is so angry that she has to so angry about her husband or whatever. She would have dumped Zeus. She was the original before he cheats carry Underwood vibes. Yes, but there's something interesting about that story

because there's Harry can't give up this relationship. She's also Zeus's sister because oh yeah, that's all, which is like literally when you think about when you think about the Persephone myth, Hersephonie is given to Hades, who is her uncle by her father, Zeus who is her dad who fucked her mom Demeter, who is his sister, So it's all in SSS. But with Harry, it's like she's trapped in this relationship, like she is the figurehead of all

of Olympus, Like she can't leave her post. She just has to deal with this Zeus bullshit all the time. And I think that is like a really good story, you know. Okay, So who which which Greek god would you want to fuck? Or like, you know, rent an Airbnb and have a long weekend with, have a long weekend with. I mean, would you want to spirit you

away to Olympus or to the underworld? When when I was a kid, I was horny for Apollo and actually one of my earliest I would say that, like Apolo has got such mean twink energy he is, and he's a mean god to like, he's not nice. What he did to Cassandra very petty. Wait what did he do to Cassandra? So Cassandra in the you know theron the

Myth of Troy. You know, Cassandra is one of the daughters of Troy and like Apollo wants her and she rejects him, and so he places this curse on her that she will have visions of the future, but no one will believe her. Oh, is she the one that launched a thousand ships? No, that's Helen of Troy, Thank you. Thanks. Sandra is one of the Trojan Women, which we'll get to. Oh my god, we're jumping around so much, but I

love it. Okay, So as a kid, I have a visceral memory rose of obviously you know when your kid, you like draw horny things like that that happens. And this book delares book of business. This book um really like you know, horned me up. And I have a visceral memory of drawing this kind of depiction of Apollo and then drawing these like chiseled abs on him, you know. And then I remember drawing it and finishing the drawing, and I then your mom saw you and then like

and then like prayed over your body. Luckily it wasn't that well, I mean it did. I did. My horny drawings did get discovered. I remember crying about it and my dad being like, it's okay, like you you you beautifully portray women and men's bodies. I remember my dad saying something to that effect, like really weird, just trying to like kind of be like my kids school gardens, Like I don't know how to do that. That's how people have been like like dealing with gay stuff forever,

Like it's just art. It's just art. That's what most of like Greek statues are. It's like all these men like men like wrestling each other and they're like, oh they were friends. Yeah. But I remember in fifth grade like looking at the drawing and being like and I remember I'm like over my on my bed finishing the drawing. I remember looking at it. I mean like, oh no, like this is like I'm horny for this, and that is going to be a problem, an ongoing problem for me. UM.

But I haven't told this story on the pod before. UM, But this tattoo that I have of Apollo and High and synthas Um, which is another beautiful um twink abduction love story is my first memory of queerness, if not my earliest memory. Cane um basically as t l DR ver t l d R. It's a it's a really short myth um. You know, Apollo as he just want to do, falls in love with a twink named High and Cinthis and you know they love each other and

they are you know as like gods do. And one day they decided to play discus and Apollo is like so toxic that he throws the disc is too hard and kills High and Cynthis upon impact, and Apollo is obviously forever time and then and Apollo is obviously devastated, and so he you know, creates the High and Scynth

flower in his honor um. But I remember it's like I remember after finishing DeLay's Book of Greek Myths, I moved on too books without pictures, Greek myths without pictures and like, and I remember reading It's like it was like three sentences of a myth. It was like a long list of myth myths that I was reading in a bible, thin pages like textbook. And I remember reading like Apollo had a lover and his name was high

Synthis and I was like his like what like? And it was very It was definitely something that stuck out to me. I think that might be a good jumping off point to start talking about some of our other favorite adaptations of Greek mythology um, which is definitely something that has, you know, stuck with me throughout my life. And I do think there is a cycle where every couple of years we get some new you know, text

added to the cannon. And right now we are kind of in this renaissance of you know, these very contemporary retellings of these classic stories. Um, well, I don't. It's not a zance like there actually should be way more

like it should be. There should be. It's actually not that many like it's kind of shocking how untapped A lot of this is, yes, but but you know, Okay, So I think some of the formative ones for me, like we'll get to the current day, but some of the formative ones for me, like over the years have been things like Mary Zimmerman's Metamorphosis, which we discovered we were both obsessed with huge I we did a performance of it at my high school that I stage managed

question Mark, and it was like one of my favorite plays I had ever read. It was um for me when so I was a theater nerd and when I was auditioning for colleges because I wanted to go into an acting program, one of my audition monologues was from Metamorphosis, of course, um so for the virgins. Metamorphoses is a play written by Mary's Emmerman that basically adapts all the

different like myths. Yeah, all the different exactly, and it's like so romantic and sexy and beautiful and like I think my monologue audition for it was Orpheus is but like that depiction of Orpheus and Euridicies myth is like one of my favorites ever because in the adaptation you have to see Orpheus making the crucial mistake of you know, turning around and looking back back at it and seeing the mistake over and over and over and over again.

You know. The Orpheus and euridicy I think, really speaks to this thing that the Greeks did really well, which is tragic, you know, like something like Greek Greeks invented

theater as we know it um. I was a theater kid in high school, and you know, Greek theater is one of the foundations of any sort of like theatrical practice, and it's like one of the first things that you learn about in theater school, both like when I was in high school and the theater kid when I like briefly studied acting in college before I realized it was lame um and the great thing about the Greeks, and like this carries on through the history of like storytelling

and like obviously you see it and things like Shakespeare is this sort of like luxuriating in tragedy, you know, like it's very indulgent, Like these tragedies exist for that experience of like like pushing on a bruise, you know, like reveling in sadness. Um. So things like orpheus and euridacy, like you know how that story ends, like and it's been told a thousand times, um, but you just even knowing how it ends, like you you want to luxuriate and that feeling of despair. Um. I don't know. I

think you know this about me. But I very similarly studied theater briefly and then decided it was lame and quit.

Did you know this? So I went to the DePaul Theater Conservatory for one semester, like because I graduated from high school and you know, I was a theater kid in high school, and I was like, theater is my community and helped me realize who I am, so surely it's what I want to do for the rest of my life, which is like in America, like why do we like pressure kids to think that they need to know what to do with the rest of their life

when they are nineteen? Anyways, I went to the DePaul Feeder Conservatory and uh really, like like we we had to study like Greek tragedy, and I always thought the tragedies were so fucking boring, Like I mean, they are texted so and even like modern adaptations are boring, they are in are boring, but there's just something about them, like I get it. I my senior year of high school, I got cast in one of our main stage productions

and I had a lean in it. Um. We did The Trojan Women by Euripides, and that is like it's trauma pore and it's like about the aftermath of the Trojan War and all of the leftover women and like these women whose lives have been ruined, their husbands killed, that they've been raped, their city has been torn apart um. I played Tolphibious, who's the Greek soldier who like throws

Hector's baby off of like the walls of Troy. Um, my god, and it's so like at the time, like we thought we were doing the most groundbreaking contemporization of Greek tragedy that had ever been done. And now I look back and I'm like, oh my god. The parents sitting through that must have been like what the fuck is That's kind of something that I got to wear a cape, so that is a cape a cape or

a cape let, honey. It is so funny though that like retroactively, we look back on these moments and like you think in the moment, you're like this is like so good, like this is actually good, like even though we're in high school, like this is so good. It's like no, it's not, like you're This is like you know, like an adaptation of like a Greek myth about like

rape and motherhood. Like you and you as like you as a seventeen or eighteen year old do not have the emotional maturity to be able to bring this in a meaningful way. You simply do not. And also we had this like visiting teacher who directed it, who like had gone to n y U and so and so they like they brought all of these like sort of like you know, contemporary theater ideas to this production. And we did these like ritual quote unquote rituals on stage

that we're like very like modern dance. And it was like what did you do to Like we were doing viewpoints work if anyone out there, and it's like this like thing we don't don't know, Yeah, I mean, if you know what it is, I'm sure really saying that was very triggering for you, and I like apologize, but

also to deal with it. You know, I think part of honestly part of the way I feel about Greek theater, and I was like, this is boring is like partially how I feel about Shakespeare sometimes because it is actually really difficult for me to be like entertained by like Shakespeare as is Shakespeare, I feel totally different, you know, I know, I know you were were very different when

it comes to the Shakespeare at all. But like the thing for me is that Greek mythology similar to Shakespeare is like I think the stories have less resonance in a contemporary world, but they did give us archetypes and story tools that have you know, formed and influenced our

method of storytelling for centuries and centuries, you know. And like when I think about like Greek tragedy specifically, it's like we have you know, the like the term catharsis because of that are like um and things like um, you know, a Greek chorus, Like that's an idea that like you can see and like not even really need to,

like you you under you immediately understand what's happening. Um. But yeah, like as I was mentioning before, right now we are okay, maybe we're not in assence of you know, Greek Greek Greek tellings, but there have been over the past couple of years, especially in literature, a lot of very modern adaptations of Greek myths. Button. But I think the the difference with the trend now is that it's applying a contemporary sensibility but keeping it in the classical setting.

So I'm thinking specifically of the Song of Achilles and Searcy, both by Madeline Miller. I think we are like split right down the middle where you're more of a Song of Achilles girly and I'm a Searcy. Yeah, and that really says a lot about who we are women, you know. A big part of my ethos actually, just like the things that I want to make now are very informed by something that the books stood for, which was putting

queerness into a story that it's traditionally excluded from. And like we just never get to see faggots or lesbians or trans people like pick up the sword, you know what I mean. We see them, Um, we see their innteriority. We see their heartbreak, we see their oppression, we see like the systemic ways that they have like obstacles, but like we never get to see them like you know, kill the fucking dragon, rescue the damsel, pick up the sword. Um. And I felt like that was something that was really

radical about Song of Achilles. And you know it also is very like especially radical, and that it's not even just like a retelling, Like it's not injecting queerness into a story in which queerness never existed. It's reclaiming queerness in a story that always was queer and was straight washed. And it totally reads very white a And also I mean this is this is a compliment, not a dig. Like it also reads like fan fiction, like it totally is fan fiction. I mean all Greek mythology adaptations are

a fan fiction. Yes, but um, it's worth saying that Madeline Miller is a classics professor, so she has clocked you know, the ten thousand hours on this, which I think makes a lot of her work so much more compelling. Like I hadn't read her work in a long time, and when I picked sir s up this month, like I was like, oh my god, I forgot that she just knows her ship and she and she has a really I really like her writing style. It's very and this is also not a dig. It's very easy to read.

It's very accessible, but still poetic, very poetic, dramatic, very melodramatic. I really prefer Sercy because like, I'm always going to

be a witch girl writer, writer or die. Um, what's the story of we should actually for the virgins, clarify the stories of Achilles and sars Okay first, okay, So Searcy is about the goddess Cercy, who is like like often thought to be like kind of the mother of witches, like she in Greek mythology, like she is the classic, which I would say her in Hecate are kind of the two which figures in Greek mythology. Hecate is the goddess of magic. Searcy is a um daughter of a

a river god I believe. Yeah, well she's a she's a daughter of Helios and one of his Sidon's daughters. Yeah, because he was just you know, sucking and fucking yeah. Um. And Searcy is a big figure in Um the Odyssey because when Odysseus, Odysseus and his crew of men um you know, end up on her eye end. She becomes enambored with Odysseus, turns all his men into pigs um,

and she and Odysseus are sucking and sucking um. And so the the novel Cercy is really about um, you know, giving this woman who only is um like a character in in other people's stories and specifically in men's stories, her own story and her own agency. Um. And it's about you know, her being this goddess who like kind of has no power of her own. And then like

literally like invents witchcraft. Yeah, and like um in the Odyssey, which like we don't even need to talk about because it is like so boring, but like in the Odyssey, she is like a very minor character, Like she's a villain. Who isn't she vanquished? Like, isn't she's not vanquished? They're just kind of leave her yeah, um. And And so like the kind of expanding of this story the way Madeline Miller does it is she creates opposition between magic

and the what what gods can do? And so the fact that she had power is like something the gods cannot get around. They can't do anything about her potions. They can't do anything about her manifest stations, her spells, like because you know, they don't know how to do magic basically, So it's very fascinating. Um Song of Achilles is literally just like a high school breakup story, but told through like the Trojan the Trojan, it's not even a breakup because they don't break up, just one of

them dies. I mean they did kind of technically break up. Um uh. And Madeline Miller's telling of it is wonderful because Patrick Cluse is the protagonist and Achilles is a

little toxic and I think super toxic. Yes, yeah, very toxic, because the whole idea of especially the way that Madeline Miller tells it, is like Achille knows that he if he goes to war, will die young, but he will die in glory and that is more importan into him than having a long happy life with his lover Patroclus, right, And and it's real and so much of Greek mythology is about knowing your fate before it happens and doing the thing anyway. Yeah, And like I think Achilles, like

was he a demigod? Said he's a daughter of Thetis, who was one of Poseidon's daughters, and I honestly just like I was going through a breakup at the time and like had a really toxic partner when I was reading it, and like I just remember being like damn, like this like myth from centuries and centuries ago. Madeline Miller was able to render with an emotional reality that like I could access as a high schooler, Like it was just it's just so beautiful. Um, but I love

I love that. I love her expansion of it because you know, Patrick Loose and Achilles relationship is never explored really in Greek mythology. It's just like their lovers and that was it. Yeah, well, well there's the big thing

of Greek mythology is Achilles. Patrick Cliss again, like very much like Cercy, is just like a throwaway character in a larger story, Like you only get like Achilles, like um, you know, uh, like melodramatic outpouring of grief when Patrick Cliss is killed and it's what leads him to have this, you know, to kill Hector in this very like dishonorable way, um,

and like leads to his death. And so it is nice to have that story like fleshed out and like to have this person who's like a footnote in history, given you know, all this agency and backstory and like death. Honestly, like Achilles was kind of giving like toxic masculinity top, and like Patrick Cluse was like Twinkie bottom, and like Achilles hated like his effeminiscy. I actually think Patrick Luz

was the top. I don't. I don't, but that's like for for like Greek historical reasons, because obviously, like gay sex wasn't like frowned upon, right, like it was something like that was people would have sex openly and like it was totally okay to have male lovers, especially if you were you know, at war, right like like um, and so because they thought that it would like engender um, like better camaraderie on the battlefield if the person you were going to war with with someone that you cared

about in this like sexual and like sort of romantic way, right. And so you know, classicists like they don't find like stigma and like you you around like gay sex stuff, but they do find stigma and judgment around penetration. So the receptive partner is at times throughout Greek mythology shamed

for being the receiving partner. But part of the reason why why pederasty was like acceptable was because when you were pederasty is literally just like an adult man having sex with a young boy, which was extremely common in in uh kind of Greek mythological time, and it was sort of like a mentorship kind of thing. Yeah. Sometimes it was like my little toy. Sometimes it was a

mentorship things. Sometimes it was like you're my companion, You're coming with me to war, You're gonna stay in my tent and like bear my cup and stuff like that. So sometimes these our full relationship yeah, um, but it was that you know that these boys were never looked down on for being the receptive partners because they were not yet citizens, right, And so that's kind of why I think Patrick Louse is the bottom is because he was the not the one that was glorified and made

the hero. Yeah, but like I get that that's like the mythological baggage of it. But like in the way I look at it, I think like Achilles, because he's such a hot shot on the battlefield, Like when he comes back to the tent at night, he needs someone who's going to suck his brain. He can so he can like unwind. That's that I'm writing. That's excellent, that's the vibe. I know that. I think this is true. This also could just be like a byproduct of having read a lot of fan fiction, but I think they

did a lot of like thig fucking. That's I was literally going to say that there was intercural sex. Yes, that's what it's called. They would like that, they would that would be there, um, that would be their loophole around not being the receptive partner because also because I'm sure it was very hard to you know, keep clean when we were at war, yes, but because they would

be ashamed for being a receptive partner. They're like, oh, it's final, Just fuck your thigh gap and then we can like kind of you ever done that, that's a complation. I have a couple of times. Actually, one time, even even more unusually, someone fucked the crease of the back of my knee and it like happened. It happened like

very organically. It's just kind of like I was spooning with someone and like he was I think taller than me and just kind of naturally like his dick like slotted in into like the back of my knee and he just fun and it was like weirdly really erotic. Oh yeah, and he did it to completion. Look at a crevices and crevices and crevice, the crevices crevicing. Um yeah, I feel like honestly, like I will say, I do like having sex with like just the ass crack. That

is something that I have done to completion. Um or has been done to me to completion, but not a thigh gap. And now it's something that I maybe and I think like if you're squeezing the thighs together and like you you know, it feels so good to like rub between someone's cheeks, like you know, when it's like a sort of just the tip kind of situation. I was just about to say, it's kind of giving a just the tip vibe or honestly that kind of like

I mean, Greek culture was very just the tip. There was I was reading before that there was a god of fertility called pre APIs who just had a giant erection all the time, and they I know, right, and there would be like little kind of like insignias of pre aps on like people's like dull wars to signify that they had like a strong man at the house, so like you where or whatever, which is like so fun. I wonder if there's like a um, a vagina version of that where it's just like a woman with a big,

like enormous pussy. Do you feel I feel like that has to I hope so too. But considering you know, patriarchy, probably not, probably not UM. But the other thing is, like, you know, people would always have sex in public, people would always have um orgies. And in Greek times, like the men would carry around little sacks of oil, like little lube sacks, like just on their belts because they just always had to be ready, which is whack a doodle, But also just like I think paints a picture of

like what sex was like during that time. UM, I think a lot about UM. Have you heard of this sacred Band of Thebes? Yes, for the virgins. The Band of Thebes was this army of three hundred soldiers or rather a hundred and deep pairs of male lovers that were, you know, in the lore, undefeatable because they loved each other so much. And that's and that's why we have

the movie. Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure the guy who wrote three hundred has never credited the Band of Thebes as his inspiration because his version of the story is not the same like battle or myth of the Band of Thebes, but he literally rips off of the myth of the Band of Thebes and then takes the queerness out of it. But it's still pretty gay. It is still pretty gay, but the army is like explicitly homophobic.

There's a moment in three hundred where one of the guys is like, oh, that boy lever or whatever, which like that never happened in Greek times, Like that was not how sentiment around men having sex with men existed. So it's like so ikey and stupid to me for like someone to like kind of pull out what could be the most interesting part of that story slash. All I'm saying is that I'm probably gonna adapt this, and

I'm gonna well, that was gonna be. That was gonna be My next question, Like, if you were going to adopt you know, a Greek myth or story or like a particular god or goddess or whatever into you know, a book or a limited series or a movie, what would it be? Forgive me? I have multiple answers. One of them would be a band of thebes. I think that, you know, three hundred soldiers sucking and fuckingto victory is

an amazing and that should be the title. But it's kind of like a I mean, I've never actually read like a kind of textual reading of the myth or whatever, so I don't know actually what they did, but like it's kind of amazing to think about, like, you know, going to battle, slaughtering a bunch of people, going back to camp just fucking, just like sucking to get the adrenaline out of your system, and that gives you the energy and willpower to like go into the next battle.

Like that's amazing. Um. I have written an erotic adaptation that is set in the modern day of Zeus and gay Meade that is going to be published in um a compilation like next year. I will send it to you. It's it's it's pretty I mean, it's pretty graphic. Um, it was so fun to make sure to keep my little um my belt sachet of lube. But in my act keep that thing. In my adaptation, You're gonna roll

your eyes because it's so on the nose. In my adaptation, Zeus is like this, like you know, real estate, UM kind of mogul club owner who owns a club called Olympus. And Ganya Meade is a bottle boy twink that you know, he meets and usurps when it's when it's right, it's right. Um. So I'll send that to you. But my real answer, the thing that I literally actually have started to like write as something that, um, I would I mean, I think it could be a series, but it would also

be a very good book, is Dionysus. He is currently my favorite. I mean, he's my favorite god. I think I think that you know, for the virgins, he's the god. Everyone says he's the god of wine, but he's the god of hedonism. He's the god of transnis queerness. He you know, was very gender fluid, um. And he you know, unfortunately had this like cult of like women who he you know, subscribed to his ideologies and like would rip

people apart. And that's like the ugly story. But I think that there's an interesting version of that of someone who understands the transformative and addictive power of pleasure and uses that to manipulate a crowd. Um. And I think that, honestly, there aren't stories of Dionysius that are as queer as he is, you know, and I feel like there's a version of the you know, the enclave of people in his entourage that is like every all genders and everyone's

kind of like fucking and indulging. Um, what about you, what would you adapt? Well? I, you know, I think my answer would have been a lot different when I was a teenager. Um, you know, looking at this book of myths that we have in front of us, the one that I was always the most drawn to was the Artemis story. And like when I was a teenager, I would have loved to do like a sort of I think Artemis has a big, kind of buffy energy, so that kind of like you know, young warrior girl

kind of thing, like this eternal maiden. Um, that would have been really interesting. But well, for the versions, what Artemis story does the book tell? Oh, it's just like about Artemis and like the guy who's in love with her, who she turns into a deer. The guy watches her bathe non consensually, and then she catches him and she's like, you're a deer now, motherfucker. She's got us of the hunt, by the way, Yes, And like feminism question and the moon,

but there's other moon goddesses. I mean, Salne also would be a great story, but like also some problematic like consent stuff there, But no, I mean my real answer is I think it's kind of expected, but it's also a thing that I can't believe has not been done,

which is a Medusa retelling. And like I am going to be like kind of obvious and say, like I think it would be incredible to do it as a trans story, Like I think, like the idea of this woman being being raped and then like someone like tells on her, Like I think it's a retelling where Athene

is a turf Medusa's trans um. But but I really think, like if I never get around to it, like that's I don't know how there hasn't been like a contemporary like reclaiming of Medusa as a feminist figure, because the only ways we've seen her are as a monster in

someone else's story. And I do think I could do it, but I just don't have the sort of like scholarly like ability to really um research antiquity enough to make it the tail it could be not But maybe I could do one that's like more vibes well, I mean I I personally like when I when I've started to write about dionysis, I don't want it. I would never ever write ancient dialogue like I would never I would

not I would be writing temporary dialogue. I would still want to set it in that time period, but I don't make who knows. Maybe after I finished my book, like that's the next thing I'll work on. I was gonna say, I categorically reject the lexicon of get around to it, because I think it's something you need to do immediately. And Virgins, if anyone adapts Medusa before Rose does,

we will find you and kill you. But also, if anyone up there wants to like option trans Medusa, hit me up, tell us what you thought about today's episode. We want to hear what your favorite Greek myth is. Yes, santag Us at Like a Virgin nine, please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. It helps us so much. I'm your co host, Rose Damn You. You You can find me anywhere you want on social at Rose Damn You

and I'm a friend. You can find me at France Squish go anywhere you want subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Um rate us on Spotify, leave a comment on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is an iHeart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane, Chitch and Nikki Etour until next week, See you later, Virgins. No chance, no way, I won't say no no it didn't. I oh