Dorer the Explorer

say lies for the sake of it. Well, I love you love to lie. You'm an antihero, much like Luna Maxima, and yet you insist on everyone believing women. What kind of a liar would I be if I didn't want people to believe the lies? I wasn't convincing anyway, just like Wanda in the beginning of the movie when she was giving folklore and then all of a sudden she

was giving evermore. And we're going to talk about it today because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture, literally yesterday, because that's when we saw the movie. Today's takes I'm rose, Damn you and I'm Fran Toronto one Division One Want Division, Do Do Do Do Do, once again, the song stress of this podcast. I honestly wish that my voice had the power of the guy with the tuning for us, so that every time I sang you exploded died heroes, how

are you? Oh God, I'm so sick of being asked that question, how dare you know? The vibes are, the vibes are not quite vibing, the vibes are, vibes are significant, the vibes are significantly off. But you know what, I'm really looking forward to, um being in New York this weekend. By the time this episode comes out, I will be

uh in transit to New York City. UM, because I'm finally going to be taking advantage of my Christmas gift from Mixed Frien Toronto got me tickets to see Into the Woods at New York City Center, which I'm very excited about. I've been hearing such good things about the production, starring A One Sarah morellus Bearing starring Sarah Borellis, Neil Patrick Harris, Heather Headley as the Witch. My God Sarah Barrellis.

When she wrote love Song, she came on this bitch Matt as hell like she really did you know tweet again recently because you it's definitely become part of your um lexicon more as of late. I honestly I don't know why. I mean, I think it's one of the funniest tweets in instance, it's it's a Christina. If you haven't just google, you know Christina bit Matt. Actually think people don't know what we're talking about. I don't want them listening to this podcast if you don't know. If

you don't know, you're excommunicated. UM. But yeah, no, I've been thinking about it that a lot. And I mean Sarah Brillas. Do you know why she wrote that song? Yeah, because she was in love. No, it was because her label at the time, I really wanted she was like writing about a lot of things that weren't love, and her label was like, well, no one's going to really care about her music until you write about love if

you write a love song. So she wrote she wrote a song that I'm not going to write you ask for it, which is her mind. And it is a very iconic song and it's also very it's very Joni Mitchell too because Joanie wrote music that was critically acclaimed but not commercially viable, and her the people in her camp really wanted her to succeed more commercially and they were like, you need a song for the radio, Joni, you need a song for the radio, the radio, the radio.

If it's not in the radio, you don't matter. And so she wrote you turned me on I'm a Radio because of that and to basically making fun of capitalism and like and the radio. We love art that was created through trolling. UM. So yeah, very excited for Into the Woods. UM. I was actually gonna tell you if you want to see a Strange Loop on Broadway, they've reached out to us. UM recently. Zach Stafford, who produces that show, said they would love to have us so

I would go see that Friday night. So if y'all have not heard a Strange Loop, is this amazing, amazing, very black, very queer show that just raked in the most Tony's this year as of today of this recording, UM eleven nominations. As is the case with every Tony season, there's always like one play that just kind of sweeps because you know, Broadway is dead. UM, not to of course devalue the wind in any way. But the Tony's made history though to nominate the first trans person to

get nominated for an acting nom uh l Morgan. I think, what's her name? Let me yeah? What else am I going to do in New York? Well? I have an Airbnb and bed sty, so hopefully I will turn it into a sex dungeon um within hours of arriving. Um, I will be eating a lot of pizza um and bagels so lots of bread. Generally I'm gonna be there. Saturday is Charlene's birthday. Charlene and Karnate, who has an iconic episode of this podcast about Jack a Little Pill.

If you haven't listened to it, you definitely should. Um, it's Char's birthday, so I need to find out what she's doing. Um. Hopefully she has some kind of show. I would love it if she was doing her brunch

with Tyler Ashley baby Tea. Which is if you live in New York City or ever traveling there, if you are looking for a daytime drag show where it's literally like two queens giving shows NonStop for like three or four hours, broad daylight, daylight, like stomping on the tables like that is that is the drag show, and you everyone in the world needs to go at least once. And it has come a long way since it started at fucking Bizarre Bushwick. Do you remember Bizarre? Yeah? I do,

I do. This was a mess. I hated it. I don't know that. I don't know what the venue is now, but yeah, Baby t is I think like legally one of the eighth Wonders of the worst. It's a um someplace in Dumbo. It's a restaurant that's owned by some very nice lesbians and it literally, like Charlene just kind of like jumps from table to table, you know, doing like Macavity from Cats. It should not be missed. And it's like always kind of announced like a little last minute.

So definitely, you know, if you live in New York, don't miss Baby te Brunch if you have the chance to see it. And if that's not happening this weekend, which I think it probably would have already been announced, I will find some way to see the dolls in

addition to seeing um. Sarah Brellis fran you sent me a very dangerous text today that I was really with you about, which is and then I went to check my email and saw that I had gotten the same message from you, which is that the Essence private sale is happening. And I screamed, cried, threw up, took a ship um, and then through my phone because I'm really trying to do a no by month. Um. Oh oh, good luck with that. I've been I've been somewhat successful

so far. I'm just just in that in that single sentence, I know that you have not been. Um, you're right, but how much was that person you brought to the or this? I'm returning it so it doesn't matter. So are you returning? Returning literally packed in a box? The private SI looks so good though, like Heaven by Mark Jacobs is on sale, and like there's some Ghani stuff that's stop saying it. But I made the chatlow, which

is never ever ever I made. I made. What I'm trying to do is I'm adding things to my wish list. I'm like being intentional about what I actually need versus what I just want. Because I did this the last time Essence had to sail, like two weeks ago, where I only wanted one thing, and then because the sale was happening, I bought a ton of other things and then ended up returning, not liking and returning everything except the original thing that I bought. They're going to come

for us with the guillotine. No, but we're not rich, We're just stupid. Um that's so true. Yeah, like we're we're living outside our means the same way that everyone is. Um. So, I I'm asked for to do something for me somewhat recently, which was um, you know, Fran is kind of my go to person for if I'm like waffling about whether or not I want to buy something, I will send

a link to them and ask their opinion. The problem is that I've started just not sending you things because I know you're going to say no, and I doesn't buy them anyway. Um. So to find a friend who can hold you accountable and actually make them hold you accountable. So I'm going to start doing that. Um I will. But I've been pretty good and then I have been

not really buying things. I've been returning a lot. And I also I like made a rule for myself about getting take out and like eating out, and last week I cooked or made every meal at home Monday to Thursday. That's like my new rule. Oh that's joke. I love that. But I'm going to New York this weekend, so obviously a lot of this is going out the window. But it's travel. It's travel. It's vaka, it's gonna have so much.

You're gonna have so much fun. And and really for me, it's more like the not spending is more about saving money. So as long as I'm like saving the amount that I want to save every paycheck or every month, like, then it's all good. And I'm just trying to curb the shopping impulses so that like I can save more on top of that. And you know, as long as you have a plan and a budget and it works

for you, then you're good. You know, Queer people, we as a community have money trauma, and that money trauma manifests in an absolutely against all odds, like completely irrational inability to ever look at our bank accounts, not once. But you know that I cannot look at my bank account like to save my life. I look at it maybe like one s aquarter, and every time it's true. So I have I have a separate savings account. I use this app called um digit and what it does

is it not sponsored? Um, but I would love for it to be. UM. It's an app that tracks your income and you're spending and automatically takes money out of your account to add to a separate savings account at like five days a week, which is great because it's just like savings that I don't have to think about, and like that's kind of like my like vacation slush

fund and just like whatever. Like if I ever have like a like a big purchase that I need to pull money from something like that's where I'll take it from,

UM and then everything else just get saved. UM. But every time I open it to like if I want to pull money out, like notice comes up where it has like all of the other times I've done that, and what my bank account balance is and what I do is I like when I pull it up on my phone, I like cover the top half of my phone that I am so I don't have to see it because like see no evil, speak no evil, and like honestly like back to the shopping thing, truly, when

I'm trying to reconfigures that I shop when I'm bored. I don't shop because I need things. I shop when I'm like sitting on the couch and I'm like, what am I going to do? So I pull up the Essence app or like go on Nordstrom it and like, I end up not liking or caring about or actually using the things that I buy. So I'm just trying to like break those habits because truly the worst thing that ever happened to me was that I attained a level of economic stability where I had more disposable income,

and instead of saving it, I started spending it. So now I'm trying to tip it in the other direction. Okay, I love that. I really wish I had had that app because I think if I had been maybe monitoring my bank a little more or been more mindful about it, I wouldn't have been in New York this weekend with a bouncing credit card. I I my credit card got declined multiple time and unfortunately, very humiliated. Unfortunate for me. I got an email from American Express this weekend telling

me my credit limit had been increased. Oh no, but you know what that But you know what that just means? Like that is good for me. I'm building credit, um I now have. I'm not like putting anything else on my credit cards and now just like I have more, um, I have a lower usage now because of that higher limit. So I think, I like a lot of this is really ugly what we're talking about, all the shopping stuff.

But I do think that a lot of people, I know, millennials, queer people, marginalized folks like we are not taught the realities of our finances, um in any meaningful way. Um. You don't learn this in school, you don't learn this in college. Were thrust out into the into a world usually with tons of debt um and and I've never taught how to manage it. So if we can kind of like like talk about this together and figure these things out for ourselves, then I think that's a good thing.

And that's why we have That's why none of us have four O one case, none of us have you know, savings accounts, none of us have like credit, none of us pay our taxes like we were taught to do any of this ship um, and we are are the queer commune basements that we live in. Sure as hell aren't teaching us either, not that either of us live

in a queer commune basement. But maybe we should start, but maybe we should start one if you would like to be part of the like a Virgin Queer commune basement, Um, slide into our d M s at like Virgin four. That's right. Yeah, Actually, while we're at it, can I just quickly say because we usually say this in the credits, but like Pride is coming up, which is a big,

huge eye roll. However, Pride is a huge opportunity for this podcast, Like a Virgin and you, the virgins listening at home, are the number one asset to help us accomplish our dreams and aspirations. So please recommend this podcast your friends this Pride season. We would love that, and that is like the number one way to like know, get our show to pop off, or you can side into d MS, you can follow us whatever, And if you have a podcast and you want to have us

on it, we would love to do that. Um, if you are writing a list of your favorite queer podcasts and you want to include us on it. But truly, just like keep listening, keep vibing, and we will have some surprises for y'all very series. No one would be talking about Doctor Strange two Rwanda because I didn't I never even saw Doctor Strange one, I was like, Oh, this is the this is one of the marvel things that I just have no interest in and we'll never see.

And I only even watch Doctor Strange recently because I knew that this movie was coming out, and I can't remember how you felt about it, but I really liked it. I loved it. And I have to say now, in terms of like the m c U at large, like Doctor Strange is very high in the ranking of my

favorite superheroes. And also just like imagistically, I think the visuals of like Doctor Strange's like powers and like the illusions that and optical illusions that happened, it's very like, um I spy level, like optic illusions that we're seeing

are really gorgeous. I think the dissonance for me is that I like Doctor Strange is part of the m c U. I like the magical part of the m c U. I don't necessarily love Doctor Strange himself, and even in this movie, I found him kind of boring and just like very reactive to everything that was going on, and like this movie was about Wanda for me, But I like that he is our entry point into the

more magical side of the Marvel Cinematic universe. I will also say the jokes for the first Doctor Strange movie, we're much better for him. I also agree, like I liked him a lot better in his first movie, and here he kind of I mean didn't fade necessarily, but like it was about Wanda. It was it was about Wanda, and I think some of the So let's I think before we get into everything, let's give like a kind of t l d R of just what we thought of the movie generally. Um, and maybe a loose premise

as well. Um, sure if you can even like you are the one to do that. Yeah, okay, So loose premise of the movie is in the chronology of Marvel, Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness is like basically kind of a sequel to wand Division the show, um, and also obviously a sequel to the first Doctor Strange movie in it Doctor Strange is now you know, uh, well, I guess actually Okay, So the two things that I think set this movie up the most are wand Division

and Spider Man No Way Home. Because Doctor Strange in No Home has had his first run in with the Multiverse um and did not go well and did not go well. And so in this movie, Doctor Strange Um encounters America Chavez, who is a girl with the power to travel between multiverses, and she is being chased by what we ultimately find out is Wanda maxim Off the Scarlet which who wants America's powers so that she can get to a universe where the children that she created

and lost in wand division um exist. Yeah, and she's gonna be reunited, yes, these fake children essentially, And so that drives the whole plot of the movie is Wanda chasing Doctor Strange in America through various universes, causing all kinds of mayhem, killing people left and right, truly killing like brutally people like it's cuckoo um. And yeah, I mean in terms of like my overall impressions, I thought, um, we went into it. You know, I had read a

lot of sentiment that was not very nice. Like I think a lot of Marvel stands were feeling a type of way about the movie and feeling like it didn't live up to the hype. And this movie is also I think a year delayed. It was supposed to come out last summer, and so you know, there's a lot of reasons for people to feel like they have been on the edge of their seats for something that promised a lot and didn't get what they wanted. However, I had a ball and I thought, I really liked you know,

the movie. Um I think that, Um, not to start off sour, because I really did like the movie, but I think I came away from it feeling kind of like, you know, fine, in the way that I feel about a lot of movies, a lot of Marvel movies. Um like, um, I don't know, like I think. I sometimes when Marvel movies get super formulaic, I tend to forget a lot of the details and I don't get that invested in

the characters. And this one was kind of that. But also just like Wandas, like all care about is Wanda, and every time she was on screen, which was most of the movie, like I was invested. Yeah, it does. It is a movie that really I think maybe some of the criticism is that it is not a movie you can watch as a standalone film, but like, is

any Marvel thing something you can watch standalone? At this point, Like, you can only understand this film if you have the context of watching wand Division, like some of the things I've I've seen people saying or that you know, Wanda is um you know, just like a flat villain and like you don't understand from the movie, like her motivation, but like the whole point of Wan Division the TV show was to set up this arc within the m c U. Like her motivation is division Division, And honestly,

the emotional stakes are not there if you haven't watched.

And literally all you need is that moment, the first moment Wanda's in the movie when the wand Division theme song like amazing Needles, Oh my god, it was so incredible and so evocative, and immediately I it brought me back to the show and I understood exactly where she is um and you get it, like you get the that show was all about grief and her letting go of her grief for vision, but like I think it did transform literally into these children that she created and

when she lost them, like and now that she has all this power at her disposal, She's going to do

whatever she has to do to get them back. I would also argue that like most Marvel characters are flat, sorry, like and I think that the performances of the prestige stars that they bring into these ship shows and movies are the things that ground the characters and an emotional reality totally well well, Um, Elizabeth Olsen ate this movie absolutely like no question, Like she to me was just as like fierce and complex as she was is in

the TV show. I think it was kind of unnerving to see the level of her villainy as like, what is being set up to make her the big bad of like future movies? I think UM. And I also UM, I felt like, uh, I don't know if we necessary. I feel like we saw something new from Wanda too.

I think that's something I appreciate. It is like there was there was like a level of violence, um, and a level of mania from Wanda that you know was unsettling and it felt earned because we've seen glimmers of it before, like in End Game when she you know, goes after Thanos and he says like he has no idea who she is and she says, you will um,

and we saw moments of it. I rewatched the first couple episodes of WandaVision last night, and the moment where she realizes that Monica Rambo has like invaded her world and like turns and like throws her out, like this has all been seated. And I do think that Wanda's level of villainy in this movie is earned by everything

we've seen before. Um and it's actually just really fun to see the creation of a villain because I think one of the things Marvel does well sometimes and not well others is makes the villains really engaging and fun. I thought that that's true, and also tries to give them a little bit of depth, like I do think in Infinity War and End Game, Like Infinity War especially, Fanis is kind of the protagonist of it. Like it really does the work to make you understand why he's

trying to kill half the people in the universe. Um. And so WandaVision is Wanda's villain origin story and now she's the villain. Yeah, and you know, she's a tragic villain. She's an anti hero in a way, but she is the bad guy and we route for her, like she's fully like decapitating people and like blowing their heads off, and we're like yes, works, like queen, you know, like it really is that. Um Okay, So we've talked, we we've overviewed the movie. Have you given you really loved it?

You liked the movie? Yeah, I liked it a lot. I thought the pacing was pretty good. It's very short form Marvel movie, which also it's like around two hours, and um, I think that's probably good because I wanted more Wanda, which means that I enjoyed every moment she was on screen and never felt like there was too much of her, and and we wanted so much that

we did. Yes, in fact, wait in the theater for the post credit scene for both for both post credit scenes like Boo Boo with the fool sitting there humid the humiliating experience of sitting through minutes of rolling credits holding in my piss so that I can watch a less than thirty second clip that basically spits in my face. Maybe there's another universe where you don't have to piss, Okay whatever. The post credit scene you know, I don't. There's the second post second one is a trolling. It's

a direct troll. It was not a slap in the face. It was not as bad as when they just rolled the Doctor Strange trailer um the Multiverse of Madness trailer from from Spider Man. Um, but it was still insulting. Um. And so you know to that, I say, how dare you? And I don't know if I will ever wait for another post credit scene again. There are some things that not not like fully didn't work from me, but that

I think could have been better. Like, as I said, I found Doctor Strange like a little boring at times. I just anytime we were spending a lot of time with him, I just kind of wanted to get back to Wanda. I also thought America Chavez was good, um, but I think I think she should have just been an adult. I think they should have just aged her up. I don't understand why she needed to be a teenager.

I was telling you, bros, I really hate most things that are like here's the story of an adult and a kid, like you know what I mean, Like, I just it's never entertainment. Felt like she had to be a kid, so that Dr Strange felt like he had to protect her. Yes, I mean that said, I think it's really amazing that they're putting America Chavez in the multiverse,

into the cinematic multiverse. Um. And I have to say, like, you know, America Chavez is like a really dope character of recent conception that was the first Latin LGBTQ character to lead a series. The serious was unfortunately you can't sold after one year. But it's written by this phenomenal, amazing writer Gaby Rivera. Um and like, I just felt like a comic series. Yes, a comic series. Sorry, sorry paper comics imagine that. Um, But yeah, I felt like

it was not something that I was expecting. However, it must be said that America Chavez as a name for a character is cho ch hang levels of offensive. Like it's just not a good name for a character, and it was written by two white guys, So like, I

just we needed another name for her. But I do love that she has um lesbian moms yes, who were featured in the movie, although she had immediately killed that talk about barrier games and the m C is like, oh my god, look representation and then let's have their own child to murder them because she got stung by a bee. Well, the other thing is was giving Britain.

It really was, but what they also didn't really address America shop as his own queerness, even though she was wearing a rainbow pin on her dentmitis because she has lesbian moms or is she queer herself. She is queer herself, Yeah, she's but they didn't I mean, or maybe she doesn't know that yet in this universe. I don't know. It was just literally never addressed. Um. But I I all so want to say, unfortunately that I don't feel like so.

Chill Gomez, who plays America Shavi Is was amazing, like and maybe it's because it was a movie, Like I do think they're setting her up. I was watching a TikTok last night that was saying that they're setting up a Young Avengers eventual thing that America Javes is like canonically part of as Our Wanda's Children. And I think that's also probably why what um Kate Bishop, who is the new Hawkeye from The Hawkeye Show, is part of

so um. I think these are like this is how Marvel works, you know, like something is seated in a movie that eventually becomes its own thing like four years later. I was kind of wishing that they had cast um Isabel Myer said instead, who played Dora the Explorer and the the live action Remacha We I mean, wouldn't it be great if Dora the Explorer just was in the Marvel stud out of the Universe. They're literally like tentacle

demons like coming out of the multiverse. And then all of a sudden, it's me Donna like and like her powers the backpack or something backpack that I just take a quick as side. Yeah, maybe she sings things in it like hypnotizes people. Yes, okay, okay, I'm I'm writing this, um, but I have to say also, um, just as quick as I The Door the Explore movie, the live action remake was amazing, like really underrated Doors performances phenomenal. I lulled on my own in this theater all the way

through it. But I don't think it was. I think it was. No, I don't think it was. It was it is, Yeah, okay. I was like, um, have you ever thought about like the slant rhyme of Dora the Explorer or It's like you either need to say Dora or the Explorer er, which most people I think say the Ladder. But it's like, I mean, proud of you for that slant rhyme, but it just doesn't sell it. My favorite moment was when she goes to attack the place where all the sorcerers are I don't know what

the name of it is. And then she's like trying to get past their shields and there's a crack in it, and then she like goes and like invades the mind of one of the sorcerers and she just kind of like appears behind him and like comes out to the

side and she goes runs. It's so good. It's so and like moments like that to me pulled off a villain that isn't flat, you know what I mean, A villain that is like dynamic, that is like engaging and fund Yeah, and like even though you know, I feel like some of the kind of plot devices in this movie are like kind of like you know, they're just like fine, Like it doesn't it didn't really matter to me because she was selling it and she was witchy, which I loved, like I and they I think they

made a lot of they put a lot of emphasis on her being a witch and like that being different than the Sorcerer's It's just you know, because like the the idea of a witch has all this like loaded cultural context um and Wanda is very much by the end of this movie, when she finds the temple to her and like the demons and stuff. She is the Scarlet Witch, and even I think more so than she was at the end of one division when she's like floating in the air and like transforms into her new outfit.

Oh yeah, that was just the beginning, and truly early MCU, they very much doubled down on the idea that anything magic was just a science that we didn't understand yet, Like that's always kind of what they said about th Um and all this other stuff, but now it's it's like, it's literally magic because magic is a huge part of the comic books, and Wanda is one of the most powerful magic users specifically in the Marvel Universe comic books and movies, if not the most powerful, which is like,

I guess the question that we're is running through a lot of the minds of people that are now going to be affected by Wanda's like insurmountable power. Yes, because we saw it in this movie, because she cleared everyone. Every single person who came up against her was not a match for her. The only and again obviously spoilers, Wanda is the villain and the hero of this movie because she was the only one who could defeat herself.

It must be said also that while Wanda is enacting this horror and using the powers of the Dark Whole to kill the superheroes of the Illuminati and destroy buildings and like chase America Chavez, she is wearing old navy jeans like jeans, babe, like like fully because like she's in mom gear and yeah, like and we are like a thin hoodie like it was. Yeah, And I love

when she's chasing them. You can see if she's all injured and like and like, um, it's only like because she's in her mom form, yes, and it's only through sheer force of will that she is able and even still like Christina was like her lowest fat nascune broke. She came on this bitch mad as hell. That is very much wan energy exactly want. Yeah, I loved Also, I love her like black fingers from using the dark hold. Is that what it is? That what it is because

those in one division. Do you think if I go to pampered hands and like, can you make my fingertips black? Literally? I mean that is kind of a beauty trend slash, Isn't it also like a spiritual thing? Like people, it's probably appropriate we don't need to get into it. Yeah, but in the movie, it's supposed to be a sign that that the Dark Hold is corrupting Wanda. It also kind of we also find out it's corrupted Doctor Strange and different universes, but he uses it to kind of

help save the day. And it also leads to him getting a third eye at the end of the movie. Yeah, which is like the big kind of cliffhanger, I guess. And then in the post credit scene, we got we got her, We got Charlie's Throne. Charlie's Throne is in the Marvel universe. I did a little digging on what character she is, so Charlie's is playing clear who is a um apprentice of In the comic book, she's one

of Doctor Strange's apprentices and later his wife. So Charlie's is not coming in as like a cameo like she I. She I think is going to be a big part of the next phase of Marvel. It's astounding that she is not already in the MC I know. I kind of thought, like, has she been in one of these movies? I thought for sure she was in a DC franchise or something that I guess she doesn't. That's crazy to me. Um, but she, I mean she. I'm ready for her. I'm ready for her. I'm ready for Harry Styles. I would

like to say to get her a better wig. I would like for the eventual movie. I thought she looked actually really really looked good. I loved her purple cut crease. I'm ready. I hope they bring back John Krasinski. Do you think they're gonna do or do you think they killed him permanently? Kind of feel like it was just a gag. I think it was just for this movie. Well, I was telling you as well, like the kind of four members of the Illuminati Sons dr X are kind

of like marginal I forgot one. One of one of the other members is Peggy Carter, who is in in a couple of different universes. Became Captain America. Well she became Captain Carter instead of Steve Rogers. And when they all die, i'd um, I was just like I was like Captain Uk Tuning Fork Guy Fantastic four member, like these are all Marvel reject superheroes. The way they wanted to kill them was in her old Navy. I don't believe I don't believe in the glorification of murder, but

I do. What is the Gaga quote, Um, I I believe in the glorification of old navy jeans of Fourth of July discount T shirts and um um she said, she said, I don't believe in the glorification of murder. I do believe in the empowerment of women. That is exactly how I felt watching Wanda kill person after person, Like I think one of the early scenes when she attacks the sorcerers, she like turned someone to dust. Yeah,

and it's great. And I think, obviously, and I think maybe, um if she's like she obviously thinks that this is all justified in the grand scheme of things. I also think maybe if you are thinking about the multiverse and like all these infinite universes, like these lives are kind of meaningless because there's trillions of zillions of millions of the bavilions of people. I would love to get into the multiverse of it all. Because this movie was hot.

On the release of everything everywhere all at once, Jamie Lee Curtis reminded us, yes, you weren't telling me that I need to pull up the basic tl DR. Jamie Lee Curtis is dragging UM the Multiverse of madness, saying that it's a flop and that everyone should go see Everything Everywhere, All at Once instead, which is like these movies have nothing really to do with each other outside of being multiverse movies. All these sidelines are saying, Jamie

Lee Curtis starts feud with with Doctor Strange. Not so she so, she said, Is it just me? Does it seem strange that our tiny movie that could and did and continues to do number one movie in America and is true truly marvelous out marvels any Marvel movie they put out there. And then she tagged, um, everything Everywhere, all at once. Um, that's barely everything everywhere all at once.

UM has a deep beating heart and brilliant visual treats as well as extraordinary performances and fantastic beastly fight scenes. And it costs less than the entire Craft service budget on Doctor Strange and or any other Marvel, which I'm sure is true. There's no reason to put them against each other tv H, but it is obvious. I mean, no one's gonna say that Everything Everywhere, All at Once is like not as good as like the Doctor Strange movie. You know, I would say, like it's a better movie.

Yes it's a it's a fundamentally better movie. But there it's it's apples and oranges. Apples and oranges, but any different universes. But anyways, the reason I invoke everything everywhere at once is because I kind of want to examine, like the function of a multiverse when it like is in these like cultural objects. Because they also just watched, um, the first season of Russian Doll for the first time. I had never watched it. I tried watching the multiple times.

Did you ever watch it? I don't remember anything about it, but basically that I remember the premise. But Russian Doll is like, um, it's like um groundhog Day, but kind of girl bossy, you know, like it's like I wake up, I kind of live the same day over and over again and die in in conspicuous ways. And she finds her kind of a match es. Basically, she finds someone who is going through the same thing, and they try to figure out together why they're stuck in this kind

of groundhog Day scenario. But they do encounter a kind of multiverse where in many different cells are going throughout their days and dying in different ways, and they're trying to together figure out why this is happening and what the consequences of their actions are in each universe that they kind of decided to do stuff in UM we're in.

I don't know. I think that when I like pull these all together, it's like the multiverse in something like I think the the thematic question of the multiverse in Russian doll is kind of like how do you um reconcile trauma? I guess trauma to to talk in a Jamie the Curtis way um through like living through past selves or trying to think about you know, future selves or like other universes or whatever. It's kind of a yeah,

it's about like the reconciliation of trauma. And then with maybe everything everywhere all at once, it's more about like happiness, like fundamental happy. I think everywhere, everything everywhere, all at once is about choices and how the choices we make have all of these different implications on our life um and can lead us down all these different paths, and like it's very human to think, what if I had

made this choice, where would I be? UM? And I guess I would say in Doctor Strange, like the multiverse, I'd no, there's not. I think we can be generous and find like a deeper thematic meaning, but like it's not really there. It's a plot device. It was very similar to everything everywhere all at once. Thematically, It's like if, how if you could be happy in another universe, would you?

But I think with with Doctors, with the Multiverse of Madness, it was kind of more about grief because he was mourning the loss of his lover and Wanda's mourning the loss of her children, and they're trying to figure out if this bizarre universal like plot twist that they can manipulate is something that can you know, heal that. Yeah, they they're really just looking at the multiverse as a tool.

They're looking to escape their own lives into something else, and they don't care about about the repercussions of that. Because even early on in the movie, someone I forget who, Maybe it's Doctor Strange, maybe it's America. Shavas asked Wanda, well, when you get to that other universe, what are you going to do to the other Wanda, And she never answers it, and like we do find out, like she abandons that other Wanda in the weird like middle dimension,

the purple middle dimension. Um, she doesn't really care about her other selves. And it's because really, I think, as we learn at the end of the movie, like Wanda like kind of hates herself and she thinks that having all these external things, having her children will heal her in some way. And then that's why like another version of herself giving her that grace and that reassurance is I think what ultimately like lets her let go of all this pain and and see the pain that she

has caused and be like no more. And I think that pain and the emotional stakes of the movie, I think I kind of I am seeing now more and more why people didn't like this movie, because if you haven't, like one division to me is about grief like period, Like the whole the whole arc of the show is about her dealing with and coping with and learning how to I guess Navigator circumnavigate like what grief feels like

and how the denial that comes with that. And this is like being the final stage of that overcoming grief feels a little flat because it's only one stage as opposed to the entire um. The entire like trials and tribulations she had throughout Westview. Yeah, well you just can't fit that all in a movie. And like the movie really, you know, the movie is Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness. Wanda is not the star of it, even though she is the star of it. And you know,

maybe Wanda will get her own movie eventually. Maybe in the next version of whatever The Avengers is, Juanna will be the fanos. I don't really know. It's interesting because you know, against spoiler alert, the movie ends with Wanda seemingly dying. She destroys this temple and like it collapses.

Obviously didn't she didn't die. She's coming back in some way. Um. I do still hold out hope that she will be the link to Mutants because we know that that X Men is coming into the m c U and Wanda obviously is a huge part of X Men and like mutant she is, Yeah, Wanda, because she's Wanda originated an X Men. She's the daughter Wanda. Wanda is the daughter of Magneto. She and she's the daughter of Magneta. Yeah.

She and Pietro, her twin brother, are both mutants and there have been lots of theories about like because there's a really iconic comic book series called House of m

in which Wanda alters reality by saying no more mutants. Um, And so people like we're theorizing that maybe in Wan Division she was going to create mutants or you know, but obviously, like we're seeing in Wan Division that somewhere in the Marvel multiverse mutants exist because because we have professor X. Did you ever read Cheryl straight like advice columnist? She wrote Dear Sugar. She also wrote, um sure that movie that Reaese Witherspoon was in, Yes, while thank you Phoebe.

Um okay, So she used to be like one of my favorite writers. And she has this essay where she talks about a ghost ship life, which is essentially like, you know, as you go down the path of your life, or rather the sea of your life, it splits ways when you make a choice, and one of those ships is a ghost ship that you maybe think about like if I had gone to this college, if I had had a baby, if I had decided to marry this

person or whatever. And um, I feel like that is something that we all thematically deal with, um, Rose, what is like your primordial ghost ship. Well, I hate to be really obvious, but what if I had a transition? Really that I think about it all the time. And I don't mean to get like deep and emotional on this podcast where we're talking about a Marvel movie, but you know, um, transitioning for me, and I think for a lot of people is a choice that you make.

I absolutely could have lived the rest of my life not as a woman without medically transitioning. Email. Yeah, And it is the most active thing I have ever done in my life. It was the most active choice I've ever made. It's something that once I admitted to myself

that I was a woman. Um, because I think a lot of different people have different experiences of transnis and gender, and some people really do feel like they're like we're born in the wrong body, blah blah blah all these other things, and like, you know, I don't want to go like too deep into my experience of gender, but there was a moment in my life where I had had this realization about myself and I knew that there were two pasts in front of me, and one of

them is um, you know, following through on this and transitioning, and one of them was not. And I do think a lot about what my life would be life if I hadn't made that choice, and I think, I that's kind of dangerous um and and it's honestly a choice that I don't I truly don't think I ever could have made, because I know myself enough to know that once I had um admitted that to myself, I never could have been happy in any other life. But it

is a fucking trip to think about, you know. I mean, like it's I know, Wanda and the multiverse of gender like would watch um, But I yeah, I feel like there is definitely especially when it comes to gender stuff, and especially when it comes to like how culturally we've conflated like medical transition with like the experience of transnis, which like are not like you know, intrinsically linked because it's it's a it's kind of a given that if you were trans, you will transition um. And that's not

everyone's experience. Not everyone has the privilege to be able to transition um. And I don't think you need to medically transition to be trans. It was a choice that I had to make, and it's like not always helpful or like productive for me. To think about, like the what if of if I hadn't and like I don't want to live in that universe, but I don't know if I was given the chance, would I at least want to like peek at it and see what it

would be. That sounds really dangerous because like obviously life is so much easier as a SIS person and not that like in this like whatever if I have these superpowers, if I like found that out, Like what if I had the power to change it? I don't, I don't. I don't even want to know if that's something I would even consider, Yeah, because it's like it's like torturous, it's so dangerous. And that's why I like, even as

a thought exercise, this feels it feels really weird. Um, But I do think it's it's like important for me for me to say because I like, I know that a lot of queer and trans people listen to this podcast that like it is activating your identity like living

your truth blah blah blah, being on your journey whatever. Um. You know, forming yourself out of clay in the way that queer and trans people do is a choice you make, um, and something that you have a lot of agency in and if you are able to do that, like, that's so fucking cool, um that we get to make ourselves. And of course you're always going to think about the what if, what if lots of things, um, and just

know that you're not alone in that. Yeah, I feel like a lot of like what you're talking about is like a big reason why it's like so difficult, whether later in life or when you're not necessarily on a kind of binary spectrum of transnus, like on the needle of transnis between like boy and girl. Like we usually think it's like either all boy or all girl, or like directly in the middle, and like some people are like, actually,

you know, in between those kind of two spots. And like for me, when I think about like my transniss or like where I am on the spectrum, I feel like my ghost ship is like if I had had access to trans stories at all in any form when I was young, would that have changed who I am now? Because now I'm at a place where, like medically, transitioning in any way sounds relate taxing and heartbreaking. And now that we are lucky enough to have models of transnis

that don't necessitate medical transition. I feel like there's a version of me that I can be. But like you know, I was like in first grade, like writing in my journal that like I'm a girl or whatever, and like you know, I didn't have Yeah, exactly knows where we would be because the thing is, I transition at the point in my life. I did it because it was the advent of transvisibility, and all of a sudden it was, Oh,

this is something I could actually do. There are mechanics for it, and I am the same in that when I was like one of the most validating parts of my transition, and like coming out to my family was a lot of people in my family saying, oh, you always told us that when you were a kid that

you were a girl. And it was like great to feel like I wasn't like gaslighting myself in my own mind so that I had had that experience, because of course I have a lot of memories of that, but to have the outside validation of it, um was really important to my transition. And who knows if when I was a kid and I had told them I'm a girl, if they had understood what that means the way that parents today do who knows who I would be, you know,

I mean. And meanwhile, my my first grade bully, Charlie Crupp, which is a very good bully name, by the way, I found my journal that said I am a girl and like read it to my entire music class in first grade. And then I think my my parents eventually found the journal too, and we're like, what the funk is?

Like they may I just was, at a very early age made to believe that like what I was thinking about my gender, which like you know, was probably just a latent understanding of like my gender fluidity, and like who I am now was totally like pushed and pushed and pushed under like all of this shame. And it's like if that had never happened, you know, who would

I be now? I don't know, but I do think just as you're saying, like to all the little virgins out there who are thinking about this like it, don't flatten your ideas of transness, and don't like overthink the medicalization of transnis and don't like pressure yourself, you know, to fit into a certain box or two mirror exactly what you see on screen, like your journey is your own, and like all you can do is you know, talk to loved ones about it and keep journaling about it

and you know, but don't live a life of regret. And like, as I said, once I the the night and I can pinpointed to a specific night, like the night that I admitted to myself that I was a woman. Um, and like knew that there was no going back from that, Like I could have gone back from that, and I

think I would have lived a life of regret. And I I think, like in the what if of the multiverse of it all, like I don't think that's a path that anyone wants to be on of like having lived a life looking back and saying what if I hadn't like lied to myself or like whatever, you know, I I don't think, like it doesn't have to look the same for anyone. But um, if you're thinking about it enough, it's worth pursuing. Like I've been thinking about my like be being trans like every single day for

the last two years. And like if you feel like, you know, you could push a button and like you know, feminize your face or like you know whatever, like do all the things that you need to do, right, Like if I was Wanda and I could and I could go to it, and I could go to a different universe where like I started HRT when I was like four years old. How do you that that other person is like, you know, we are we are burying you, We are burying you under that bunker with Professor X

and snapping your neck my hairline, snatched my eyes. Yeah. Wow, how did this discussion about like the popcorn movie of the summer turn into like a very like let me tell you it was of mysid, It was of my design, babe. I knew exactly what I was doing. Anyways. My ghost ship was not chasing my ex boyfriend to a shitty state school, UM, which I wish. I'm glad to wish. No, I did do it, and I wisht that is my ghost shop. We'll be back next week with the discussion

on Lord of the Rings. So please watch all the extended editions of every Lord of the Rings movie and tell us what you want us to talk about next, whether it's UM, a book, a movie, a TV show, cultural phenomenon, an album, we want to hear from you. You can call us to confess a three two three pennants or slide into our d m s or tag us in something through our fence to Like a Virgin fore and make sure you follow Duh. I'm your co

host Rose Damn You. You can find me anywhere you want on social media at Rose Damn You and I am Francrato. You can find me at friends, squish co on all social as well. Subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, and please leave us a rating on Spotify or a review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is an i Heeart radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and Nikki Etre. Until next week see later. Virgins.

Wont Division, Want Want Division