Blood Is Blood

going to be discussing today. I can't wait. I've I've watched way too many vampire things in the last twelve hours. I must say, yes. So we're going to get all into you know, vampires throughout culture, all the different depictions of them. Um, what's gay about them? Because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm most damn you and I'm fran Toronto Rose. Are we out of the woods yet? Are

we in the clear yet? I was listening to that on the way here on my little jog to our record. I am, in a sense out of the woods. Because after a week long battle with COVID, I have emerged. I wouldn't say victorious or or unscathed, but I have emerged. Um. I do want to thank all of the virgins for um, you know, being okay with us not happing news last week, because as we said, UM in the show notes, I

was down bad with COVID. After and after after not having it for the whole of the pandemic two and a half years, I caught it. I'm pretty sure at Hades Town, UM, which was horrible by the way, UM, and I had a really truly disgusting, nasty, awful case of COVID last week. Yes, and evidently I was also down bad last week in a very obviously different way. UM. You know what, we both just retreated into our homes

and selves and did not do anything. I did test negative today, but I'm still recovering a little bit, especially my voice. So we might keep it kind of light today. Obviously, we're mostly going to talk about Midnights UM by Miss Taylor Allison Swift, and you know, next week we'll we'll discuss all the things that we have had on whole. I really want to talk about the new Willow album, Great British Baking Show. I finally saw Tar Can't God, but that rose so many different things to talk about.

But today, you know, Midnight's and and just because the finale literally just happened last night, I do want to talk a little bit about the end of season one of The House of the Dragon, because you know, it's the name on everybody's lips. I've been doing nothing but reading tweets about it, you know, watching TikTok's about it, or even read some fan fiction this morning. No, no, no, wait, what was that? What was the who were the characters

in the fan face? Well, I mostly see the reason why I wanted to read fan fiction was kind of i'll say, like a gripe I had with the end of this episode, which I did still really like. But the fan fiction I went in search of this morning was I wanted the aftermath of the big you know, spoiler alert death at the end of the episode. I wanted to see like the character is reacting to it.

And I know, I think it's it's much more impactful to have the episode and the way it does, But I did go in search of like a you know, Allison reacting to hearing about louse aras is death and thinking about her lost love rain Era. But I thought the finale was really good. That final scene with the two dragons fighting was actually like really thrilling and scary. That that shot of luce Aras flying on air ax As, I think this is dragon and then you see vague

are over them. Oh my god. They've done a really good job. I think this season of really impressing upon you the size and scale of these dragons, especially in relation to each other. And that's going to be the reality of dragons, the logistics of dragons, the ownership and usurption of dragons, how dragons are um used in strategy and and and that's like that's stuff we haven't seen, yes, and that's going to become so much more important now

that the Dance of the Dragons has officially started. I mean, this incident of aim and killing Luke is what really starts the war. And I think that's what this episode does so well is show that rain Neira, even though she's had her crown and her throne usurped, really wanted to follow in her father's footsteps and try to keep the peace. And she even says, you know, I don't want to be Queen of the Ashes, and there might

have been a different outcome had what happened not happened. Obviously, that cliffhanger was like the best part to me, and but um, I unfortunately didn't like the rest of the episode.

I thought it was hella boring and underwhelming. I appreciated that it was like restraint and that obviously they're giving you colossal steaks to set up a bomb ask second season, but because the last episode was such a barn burn her, I thought it was a funny choice to end on something that was primarily plot development until you get to the dragons. But like I hated the childbirth thing as well. Like I was just like, what the funk is this?

I was eating pizza, Yeah, well this scene was on and I I literally couldn't even look at the screen. I just looked at my pizza for like five minutes, like it was a long scene. It was, it was, and it was gratuitous. I mean, I think some of it was good TV, just like the violence of her pulling the baby out, and it was so sad, and it is true to this this is exactly how it happened, almost exactly how it happens in the book. Um, I think Season two is going to be a wildly different

show in a lot of ways. And the bloodshed has only just started. The child murder has truly only just begun. It's anyone out there knows about blood and cheese. It's about to get rough up in here. Um one of the I will say, I think this is a nice way to transition. One of my favorite parts of the episode was just, um, Rainy's in the background of every scene, like not bowing to rain Era and kind of side eyeing her, which was giving very much um evil Taylor

in the anti hero video. Um, So I do believe we have reached our main point of discussion, which is the ten studio album of Miss Taylor Allison Swift Midnights, which was released on Friday. Although Brand and I both listened to the leak on Thursday. We did, Yes, we did, because I do not respect Taylor like that. Um, I am just when you said the tense to the album, I just thought about how annoying we all are going to be when the thirteenth album, So that how annoying

we are going to be? You mean, how annoying she is going to be No, honey, honey, honey, it's an exponential correlation. The more annoying she is, the more annoying. No, she's more annoying than we could ever be. And I love her, but she is. I'm just saying, on a scale of our own annoyingness, we're going to be insufferable

or maybe just you. Because I this album, I think crystallized something that I know about myself, which is that I am a Taylor Swift fan, but I don't know if I will ever be a Swift te Watching all of the music videos, dissecting every single puzzle, all that all of that stuff, I am with you on that, and I even said, yes, well, this is more of a Swifty. I'm more of a Swifty than you. But for me, it has always been about the music and

very much not about her as a person. Like, yes, I like the sort of meme of who Taylor is, but I'm not interested in the conspiracy theories and the galer stuff, and I'm not really interested in sort of the aesthetic of Taylor Swift and the like cultural persona of her. I really love her because of her music, and that's what has always drawn me in. And I think where the difference in my love of her as an artist versus someone like Gaga, where I'm wrapped up

in the whole thing. With Taylor, it's about the music first, her a little bit after that, and and like, but not as much as I think it is for a lot of people, Like my identity is not wrapped up in being a swifty Yeah, And I think because um Folklore and Evermore were so much more story driven and like her kind of quill pen songs where she takes the focus off of herself just a little bit before she goes back into like you know, Jake Jillen Hall,

Tom Hittleston stuff or whatever, Calvin Harris conspiracy theories. I think that's something that I really noticed about this album that, you know, maybe I don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing, but entrenched in what you and I are talking about right now is that we got a lot of these taylorisms back, you know, the way like Taylor will kind of misused words some times to talk about like spider webs of opacity or whatever,

and else the congressman line. The congressman I was like you are writing sometimes, Taylor writes songs like she is a sophomore in high school, and other times she writes things and I'm like, you are the second coming of most truly, like I think is how it is, and I think the album has both of Absolutely, this album is extremely highbrow and lowbrow at the same time. And what I found myself thinking the most, and I'll let me get this out of the way, I like this

album a lot. There are some songs on it that I think are really amazing. What I thought about this album the most after listening to it on repeat several times, I mean many times a day, like since it came out, is it made it so clear to me that Folklore

and Evermore were outliers in her career. And there's been a lot of talk about this, and you know that like inside tea of Taylor's career, but this very clearly feels like the album that was supposed to come after Lover And I am so happy that I'm not gonna

say I'm happy COVID happened. I'm happy that Taylor wound up in the artistic place she was in to create Folklore and Evermore because they were such a departure from the music she was making and now she's back making that music, and I think it's important to talk about sort of what she said about how this album came to be, which is that she and Jack anton Off, her frequent collaborator, were kind of hanging out while both of their partners were making a movie together and they

were like, let's make an album. And that very much is the vibe of this album, like, let's make an album. It's a project, it's a yeah, it's a it's a filler, queen. I'm not gonna lie, and I don't think that's a really bad thing, you know, when you were as prolific

of a songwriter as Taylor. No. But you know, I said this on Twitter and it was mostly a joke, but I actually think it's kind of come around to be, like my my main understanding of what the aesthetic idea of this album is and musically what it is, it's tumblr core, it's reblog core. And what I mean by that is it's Taylor just repurposing her old ideas I think to in in many cases to really great effect. But this album I think is explicitly and intentionally derivative.

It's very it's very lover I kind of think it's like the love child of and lover doing reputation drag. Interesting. Yeah, I okay, it's just to tell the versions where I'm at with all of this, because I think that you and I are kind of on the same page but

slightly different takeaways. Um, I had that that small, that small of disapproval um when you said that the because I agree that this is Taylor reblogging herself to some extent, and I also agree that it is derivative of exactly the things you talked about, but I don't know if it's intentional. Derivative is kind of how I feel about it.

And and I will say for the Virgins again, like, I actually listen to this album once through, and I texted Rose that I thought it was bad, and then I consumed it more and actually and then also you know, I did consume some sentiment about it, and I listened to other people's thoughts about it, and I did grow to like a lot more about what the album is

presenting and trying to say. And I will just advocate for if there are Swifties listening right now that hey, my guts and wanted to tear my eyes out or whatever, please know that, like I hated this album, and I am now being convinced of it's of its amazing and

deserved place in Taylor's discography. And I like a lot of those songs now, So if you really really like it, maybe I convinced I can convince you as to why I don't think Taylor has contributed anything to her own cannon, you know what I mean, Like, here are your ex a nation now of the tumbler thing. I I that makes a lot of sense to me because I went into it being like, oh, Indie sleeves, because that was something that we had, you know that that had been theorized.

And I only think that there are two songs that are Indie sleazy, maybe, like I think sweet Nothing is a little sleazy. I also think that I should Have, could have, would Have is like a little sleazy. But

I do think mostly that it is lover. I was surprised by people that said that this was like reputation when like the realty is like Vigilante Ship sounds like a reputation song, yes, but the only the only other stuff that sounds like reputation is like dress for remputation and maybe delicate, right, Like I actually don't think there's a ton of reputation on this album. And I did find myself missing and I felt while I was listening to this that a lot of the things on this

album felt like B sides. They felt like Lover B sides, They felt like B sides. Because I went back, I really listened to nine, which, oh God, what an amazing autumnal album. Really listened to Lover. Why did God, I'm dedicated to the criticism. We listen to Lover, and I still felt like it wasn't really adding to either of those in a way that would have enhanced it in any way. And I want to stipulate that that's not

an entirely negative thing. Again, when you're as prolific of a songwriter as Taylor, she is a machine and an artist on the songwriting level, and I do think that her mind to some extent just needs to get some of these things out of her system. And I respect that. And you know, it's not a bad thing to make an album that has down beat, somewhat unmemorable music, like or whether it's a lot of these songs are things that are like they're not really gonna stay with. It's

very noble and not the album is capable. There's a lot of skips on this album. And I get what you mean about because I don't think there's a single song on this album that cracks my tailor top ten. Mmmm. I want to know what your tailor top ten is um or your top five. But I'm curious what you felt about. Did you listen to you don't listen to New Carly Ray? I did. I didn't sort of actively listen to it. I listened to it in the background while I was reading I need to give it a

closer listen. I don't have a ton of extensive things to add on it. I think that they are both middle of the road pop albums that don't contribute to the artist's respective cannon. Um. Obviously they shouldn't be compared. It's a little talk with me to compare them. But I was anticipating both of them with about the same amount of excitement. Carly really let me down with Dedicated, so I wasn't as excited. Taylor has been giving me hits,

so I was actually very excited about Midnights. But I think I found myself to be more surprised by what Carly presented in that she brought it some disco, she brought some weird ship. Obviously, the production quality is not on the level of what Taylor and Jack are doing. Um, I think that they make more crystalline Lee perfect joke, so exhausted. He needs to he needs a break and

honestly I need a break from him. And you know what, one of the theories that I had heard about Midnights was that Taylor was finally going to listen to the criticism and work with female producers. And you know that that did not happen. Um, I just I think I think this collaboration as amazing of work as it has produced. It just this is the this is the point where

it's gotten stale. And that's why that's why Folklore and Everymore were so good, is because she brought in the guy from the National and there was a new sonic perspective that worked with what she'd already been doing, so it wasn't so disruptive. But now she's just right back doing what she was doing before. Okay, I know we're being very negative, So I do want to I do want to talk about what we liked. I want to

hear what your favorite tracks are. Yeah, um, well, just really quickly, I want to also say that on on what you just said that, Um, I when I was like digesting this album, I was actually looking for things to like, you know, and I was like, what what do I like about this album? What am I latching onto? And the thing the reason I the reasons I didn't like it are exactly what you're describing. I don't think

that Taylor is giving us anything new. And then I thought about her song nothing New, and how we as like consumers of music, create an industry that forces women to reinvent themselves over and over again, and that reputation and were actually also sonic reinventions of Taylor Swift to some extent, and you could even argue that a lot of Red was as well, or some of Red was

as well. And so I think that by this point, maybe I wanted her to reinvent herself again, because that's just kind of how we're cultured to think about and consume music. And I was trying to peel that back and check myself on what I expected from her, um, which is why you know, let's let's talk about the positives. But the final negative thing that I'll say is that like, I would have loved for these songs to fuck and I was really excited. I felt almost like I wanted

this to be her Velvet Rope. Okay, and I that that sounds really stupid to say, but I actually don't think it is a far to theorize that Taylor would be inspired by Velvet Rope. If she's also going to name check Janet on this album, you know, and I would have loved to hear her. But she name checked Janet. It's such a it's such a tailor away, you know. It's just it's just this throwaway line. Although I mean, okay, if we're going to talk about we liked Snow on

the Beach. Snow on the Beach is one of my favorite Okay, so my favorite my favorite tracks on the album Lavender Hayes, which I think is a great album opener. Taylor does not always do great first tracks. I really like Lavender Hayes. Anti Hero is really good. I think it's like some kind of almost the closest this album comes to fucking interesting. Snow on the Beach. It's snow on the Beach. I mean, people have been making the joke that Lana's versus on the hard drive that got

stolen from her car. Oh, I didn't know that either, But I don't mind that. No. I wish Laana had a Verse, But I think anyone saying that you can't hear her is if that's just stupid. You can you can hear Laana both like literally in her voice and also just on the production and writing of the song. Yeah, I was, I was, really I was let down by this song, sadly, but I was. I still love it, but I agree with your tweet that Lana deserved Verse, and I think for me, it's like an anticipation of

this album. I was really excited about this track because I think that Laana is perhaps the most mainstream pop artist to emerge from the indie sleeves era. That's absolutely true. Yeah, okay, And so I was like, oh, this really is going to be tumbling cor But I don't really think the music is at all really that tumbler core, aside from the kind of video gaming things that are in like be Jeweled, etcetera. But I still love Still on the Beach.

I love how it sounds. I think in terms of fucking songs, I actually think that Lavender Hayes is the fucking song on this album. And I love that it's like a weed strain, and so I was like, oh my god, is this bad Taylor? Which you know it's not there, but does this album she does? When I think about other songs that fuck you know, Bowen posted about Dress from Reputation. I thought that was so true. I think that maybe, like there's a song on Lover

like False God or Cruel Summer. Maybe No, I mean False God is False God is sexier, but I don't think it sucks. Yeah, but it doesn't. Fuck, it doesn't Taylor's music, doesn't it really fuck? Um? I love the voice distortion on on Midnight Rain, but I didn't latch onto it too much. Um, but I love the Jeweled. I think be Jeweled is literally just gorgeous, but a new but a new version of it, even like kind of the weird little thing she does at the end.

It's very like the baby voice. Yeah, I love and I unfortunately love the baby voice on that time I Love, I Love You're on your Own Kid, really good track five Labyrinth kills me. I Love Love and then Karma is So. I did not like Karma when I first listened to it. And then Justin, our friend Justin convinced me that it's it's incredible, and I was a fool to not like it. I I I think, I again, as someone who is not necessarily a swift T T M. I don't love a lot of the tailorisms, and karma

has a lot of tailorisms. And because I just I don't, I don't like cats. Okay, I don't like either, and so I don't care out of the lyrical stylings of

the song. But the song on the pop level is an amazing song, and I I think what I appreciated it about it is like the thematic flipping of karma, which is actually like truer to a lot of Buddhist ideologies of karma, because in the kind of generic idea of karma, we think about how you trip somebody on the street and you're gonna get foreclosed on or something you know a month later, like something ads going to

happen to you later if you do something bad. But like a kind of truer idea of how karma actually functions is simply put that good actions beget good results and bad actions beget bad results. It's about energy, it's about putting things out there and receiving them back into the world because you're interested in contributing to the collectivism of like what it means to be a person. And I love how Taylor took that dichotomy and was like, all you're putting out into the world is like negativity

and badness. And I have to tell you that like karma to me is like the things in this world that are worth living for um And I thought that was my boyfriend, yes, which I think is is really kind of beautiful and incredibly dumb but so fucking good. Exactly exactly the big skips for me on this album. I mean, while a lot of it is capable, Vigilante Ship is one of the worst songs Sho's ever written. It's like, it's like me level. And it's very telling

that she released the song credits. It's the only song on the album that she wrote entirely by herself. And I will say no more and then also sweet nothing is a skip for me. She needs to stop writing songs with her boyfriend. Oh yeah, I agree, But yeah, I don't know even if this album felt like a filler queen to me, if you give Carly a listen, we should talk about it next week, but like I

felt like we'll definitely talk about it. I felt like the sexiness that Taylor was vying for with Midnights was nothing that Carly didn't already do with like warm Blood in, you know what I mean. Like, and I I feel like if she's going to do the downbeat album, that she just does some things that are like actually outside of all the tropes we already know, right, Like obviously don't want Taylor to not be herself, but I do think that she is constantly discovering new things about herself.

And I think that I wanted to pivot and this wasn't a pivot. Yeah. I think part of it is that we all, because the rollout of this album was so opaque and there were no singles or anything, we all grafted our ideas of what Taylor would do next onto it, and that set us up for disappointment. Yeah. Wait, actually, like if she had just dropped this album, I actually think I would have liked it more. And and I want to say again, I think the album is good. Yeah, I like a lot of it, but it's not iconic.

It will not be in my Spotify wrapped. That's what I'll say. It might be in mind because I will listen. I will be listening to Karma brnow on the beach. Would have could have shut a labyrinth over and over again for the next week. Well you got, you got a week. But nothing on this will will crack my tailor top ten. I don't think do you want end with your tailor top ten because I don't know if I have a top ten, but I would love to hear you. I'll do my top ten and this is

subject to change, but in no particular order. My tailor top ten is Wildest Dreams, mirror Ball, August dancing with her hands tied, state of Grace, IVY, tolerate it, out of the woods, getaway car, you belong with me, And then maybe on a certain day new romantics could edge out and you belong with me out of the woods. God.

That chorus is so annoying, and it's still one of her greatest songs ever written like it's incredible and it's when it's when her working with Jack Antonov was exciting and fresh and um Jack Jack, some Jack, take a vacation, please say. And Taylor Swift work with the woman who isn't Blake Lively, So listen, virgins, Happy Halloween. We here

at like a Virgin Enterprises have discussed vampires before. If you haven't listened to our episodes on Buffy the Vampire Slayer with Evan Ruscats and Twilight with Peyton Dix, please go listen to them now. But I think what we discussed when we were talking about our Halloween content and trying to figure out what this episode would be on, and like realizing we wanted to do vampires is the

vampire media we've covered already, not so much Buffy but Twilight. Really, the vampires of Twilight are the straightest vampires to ever exist, not even just straight like watered down, hyper conservative, hyper patriarchal ideas of what like vampire romance can be. Yes, well, it was famously written by a Mormon, is written by

a Mormon women who hated other women. And and as we'll get into in this episode, the thing that I think exists across almost every other type of vampire media is that vampires are inherently and I would say essentially queer.

So because of that, we wanted to explore the full breadth of vampires and culture and really dig into their queerness and a lot of the other things that they symbolize some of our favorite vampire media and tropes, some of maybe our least favorite um and really kind of sink our fangs and and I'm I'm sure I made this joke again what we were doing Twilight or Buffy we're going to sink we might not? Well, this is

interesting because usually I'm the one who doesn't remember. Well, I mean, look, we are here to bring you the truth, and the truth is that vampires are canonically, by I feel queer, queer, canonically queer, but like definitely buying a lot of the things we're talking about. I mean actually like in terms of like vampire queerness, just to like think about it. Top line as we go into the conversation, like why do you think all vampires are queer in

all of these stories? Like is it because you've lived for like a hundred years or so, And like if you live for a hundred years, at a certain point you're going to be like, what's the point of only fucking one gender? You know what I mean? Like totally, I think a lot of it is about immortality and if we're being very literal about vampire stories. Yes, of course, if you live forever, you're gonna be sucking and sucking

with everyone, no matter what gender they are. Actually, I would even go as far to say that like heterosexon and sucking, fucking and sucking, heterosexuality like doesn't really like exist even or rather, I don't even believe in heterosexuality. I feel like heterosexuality is just like an underdeveloped desire, know what I mean. It's like and sometimes it takes decades and decades and decades for you to have that aha moment where you're like, oh my god, wait, Like

liberation means I can suck anything I want, totally. Vampires are incredibly enlightened. I also think if you're thinking literally about vampires, then I guess if you are using humans for sustenance and are kind of, you know, not really precious about whose blood you're sucking, then that probably also translates into your desire for their flesh as well, right, because blood is blood at the end of the day.

Though in a lot of different um vampire franchises, like True Blood for example, not to hop right into it, there is like a differentiation between like virgin blood or like different kinds of people's bloods and how they have different tastes or appeals or something like that. Can you

break that down well, even in Twilight. The whole way that Twilight starts is that Bella's blood smells better to Edward than anyone else's blood has ever smelled, right, and in part because she's not like other girls, in part because she's not like other girls, and also in part because she's a virgin. Don't think virginity it's I mean, maybe it's like kind of implicit, but it's it's we're to understand that it would be the same whether she

was a virgin or not. So all that being said, those are kind of the little reasons why I think vampires are gay, or buy or queer. I think when we're talking metaphorically and vampires, I think, of all monsters that exist, are the most metaphorical. Um. I think vampires always represent what people of the time that the stories they're set in are afraid of. So that's why I think a lot of vampires are queer, because that's something

that society fears, his queerness. Um. And as I think we have progressed as a society, that's probably why vampires have gotten more explicitly queer in the media that they are depicted in. UM. But you know, we'll we'll like get to that. But I think, um, you know, if we want to look back at the origins of vampires, this is very much true because you know, I think everyone thinks about Dracula as the o g vampire story,

and in many ways it is. It is in that UM it's taught in like school high school canons, and like is regarded as it's like translated all like in every single language. And yeah, it's in literary quote unquote cannon, which you know must be said is just kind of like a cis white classes kind of contract. But in truth, Dracula is actually predated by Carmilla, which was written in eighteen seventy two by Sheridan uh Lif a new UM.

It's a Gothic novella and it shares a lot of similarities with Dracula, and that it's you know, a first person account. Um. It's about a powerful aristocratic figure you're who praise on people, but in this case the vampires, a woman whose name is Carmila, who praise on women, and it is it's a woman who praised on women. Yes,

it is very explicitly sapphic. So you're saying that, like this prototypical vampire story, one that literally predated what people think of as the most famous vampire story, was one that was kind of explicitly gay, explicitly gay. So from so from the beginning, I never heard this. Yes, so from the beginning of when we've been telling vampire stories,

they have always been gay. But I think also what is inextricably linked to Carmila and also to Dracula is the fact that the villains in both of those stories are also part of the aristocracy. And so, like I said, you know, vampires always reflect the things that people are afraid of at the time, and what people were afraid of an angry with at the time was the aristocracy.

Who you know, we're like literally feeding off of the common people when you think about like totalism and serfs, And that is where the idea of this aristocratic vampire who lives in a castle and then like sneaks out at night to prey on the common folk comes from. Wait wait wait wait wait, So okay, okay. The Gothic iterations of vampires were like low key commentary about like classes on basically, so what you're saying is um, what's his name, Sheridan Lifa new was like the Bernie Sanders

of his time. He was really trying to shed light on the upper class, maybe not Bernie's. Actually didn't know. I had no idea that I'm hearing this for the first time, but I do think it's kind of wacky. As you pointed out that not just in like Carmela, but like so many iterations of like vampire stories we have now, they're always aristocrats. I think vampires are supposed to be both what we fear and what we want

to be. UM, So, you know, they represent our fears about the the ruling class who are literally draining as dry, but also you know, aspirational wealth and aspirational immortality, and also aspirational freedom to live as you want to to, you know, be unbound by the restrictions of society, as Carmela is, as Dracula is, and even as some of Dracula's victims are, because you know, you think about the character Lucy and Dracula, who is the woman who he

prays on who becomes a vampire. I mean, especially in bram Stoker's Dracula, the movie version starring Gary Oldman went

on a writer which I've never seen. It's it's like one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen, directed by Francis Ford Coppla um Lucy when she gets turned into a vampire, like she throughout the whole like beginning of the movie has been this like, you know, attractive and like desirable woman who three suitors proposed to her on the same day and her like fighting over her hand. But when she becomes a vampire, like she reaches this sort of like ecstatic, um, you know, new height of

like her own like beauty and power and um. You know that's what you know in different vampire media, like being a vampire or something to either be afraid of in in cases where vampires are more monstrous, but when

they're more you know, seductive, you want to become a vampire. Yeah, And I think in the seduction narratives, which you can find obviously in An Rice's books in Twilight and True Blood, there's this kind of tension between like vampire and victim that is sometimes emotional, sometimes romantic, right, And and I think it's like getting at this this metaphor you're building on about like forbidden desire, right about how the vampire is a dangerous love that you know is kind of

not good for you. But at the same time, there is a liberatory power in becoming a vampire, or at least having access to what a vampire has access to in immortality, in like centuries old wisdom, in a lot of different things that vampire's wield in addition to protection. If you're on the vampire's good side. Yeah, well, I mean,

you know you speaking of like liberation. That's an interview with the vampire when Listat is offering Louie the Dark Gift as they call as Anne Rice calls it, you know, he talks about setting him free because when when interview with the Vampire starts, when his when Louie's story starts, he has lost his wife and child. He you know, is depressed. He's just like going out and whoring and

like he doesn't want to be alive anymore. And list Stat offers to liberate him from that life and offer him, you know, immortality, which is funny because this is a man who's clearly trying to die and someone just offers him the most life you can have, but a better

but a better version of it? Right, It is kind of a trick, or at least I mean, let's get into interview with a vampire honestly, because what that ends up becoming is like he immediately Louis immediately regrets it or regrets it pretty quickly, where he's like, oh, this is a different kind of misery than I was experiencing before. And because he also didn't realize that he would have to kill people to survive, which is stupid. It's like, girl, did you not read the fine print here like this

that you are a vampire? Now? Um, would you if you were at your rock bottom you would become a vampire? Right? I don't think I would need to be at my rock bottom. But the thing is immortality not appealing to you, no no, no, no no no no, but want to live forever? But being a vampire very your tea. Yeah, so okay, I guess this. Can vampire's commit suicide? Yeah? Sure, there's vampires commit suicide all the time. It's the whole plot of New Moon. Yeah. Wait, really another way is that

the second or third one? That's the second Tilight movie? Okay, yeah, I've never seen one. I have seen thee when when Edward finds out that Bella he he thinks that Bella has died. He tries to kill himself and just for the virgins. In case you forgot, I have seen the first Twilight movie, but in four different sittings and and different attempts, different attempts, different excerpts, kind of connected and

stitched together. Have not seen the second one, have seen the third one, did not see The fourth movie is their fifth movie. Yes, I have not seen the fifth movie either. It's okay, you'll you'll get around to it one day, I'm sure. But okay, what I want to be a vampire? I guess you could always just kill your because that's that's the one thing for me is like immortality zero appealed to me. Being a vampire sounds kind of hot. And I don't really understand the appeal

of living forever. I actually think that, I mean, and I'm not saying this is like a you know, sad tumbler girl. I'm I'm being truly honest, like I'm not being funny. Like death is very comforting to me. Knowing that one day all of this will be over is very comforting to me. The most you thing you could possibly this um, and at certain times it's more comforting than maybe it should be. Um. But yeah, the idea

of living forever. I mean, I think that's why vampires are both appealing and terrifying, because they are you know, also in vampire media, vampires are either of you know, very evil characters or very tragic characters. And I think and Rice particularly gets that duality really well, of them being these monsters but also these like very tragic heroes. Wait can we can we also just like have a quick aside while we're talking about like living forever? What what? Even?

There's so many movies and TV shows and books where like the central goal is some sort of attempt to eve immortalent Baltimore wants to live forever. It's like, why would you want that? Like Tuck everlasting? No, thank you? I mean a lot of times it's tied up in power. It's people who are powerful want to keep their power for the fountain of youth Like no, does not appeal Like, um, what especially don't understand? Yeah, like people in medieval times,

why would you want to live forever? Where like when like you're bathing once once a season? Yeah, holy grail, holy flop. No, actually, but like if you that's actually if you are trying to live longer, you know, you're going on your daily jogs or whatever because you like want to live longer. It's like grow up, grow up, you want to live on a planet that's dying. That's the thing that's vampires are going to ostensibly are going to live until the this world is burned to dust,

and then what are they going to be? Just like floating in space? Some of you you never read Tuck ever Lasting in high school, and it shows um that is like the central like I think lesson of it is you know him Charlie and I always used to joke that, like the twink from Talk ever Lasting is the perfect twink, and so sometimes I would like send her like a cute boy and be like he's giving talk, he's giving talk. He is so twinky, and he's Twinkie forever.

The thing to me that appeals in most about being a vampire would be the version of like vampires where there is community, because like in Anne Rice is like vampire stories, vampires are very isolated and like wander or at least in the interview with a vampire should say it's like they're kind of wandering earth looking for each other, very sparse where you know, um in something like True Blood or Twilight or whatever. They've kind of found their covens,

their communes. But that's also what sets off the whole plot of interview with the vampires that Lestat doesn't want to be alone anymore and sees the opportunity for companionship with Louie, and then when he sees that Louie is unhappy with their life together, uses Claudia as a way to bind him even closer to him, and they become

this little family which you know eventually sours um. And I mean through different and Rice novels there are the vampireson and Rice universe also do have covens and families and um, you know there are lovers who stay together for centuries um. But yes, a lot of and Rice vampires are loners. And for the virgins that the plot that rose just outlined, Listat is Tom Cruise, Louie is Brad pitt Um, and then the girl what's her name again, Claudia Claudia by a young Kirston done um kind of

doing some of her best work. They are fully like a like kind of modern family as like gay Dad's scenario, like they are a chosen family unit period like and now not biologically related at all. And that is very explicit in her books and Rice and Rice Never sucked around was saying that they were lovers. Wait wait in the I'm sorry, this is this is like actually quintessential fran and like the like a virgin kind of conversation I read, I watched the movie, did not really read

the wikipiti page or book. They're gay in the book. They're gay in the book. Yeah, they're lovers. But this is the thing. When we say lovers, we're talking about love.

We are not talking about sex. Because canonically, in the Vampire Chronicles and Rice's universe, vampires don't fuck what so so her idea of vampiresm is that because their blood does not flow, they can't get erect and so and and also you know, she clearly has this very regressive idea and like regressive and binary idea of sexuality, which is that the only kind of sexuality exists is one

with an ennetration um. But yes, according to her, vampires do not have that kind of physical urge to fuck, and so they you know, they kiss and they like caress and they're very sensual, but they don't have sex. They are sexless. Wait, I was kind of turned off by what you were describing. But now when when you think about the kind of like, um, the thematic device that becomes where it's just like when you take sex out of romanticism, but it's still a romance because it

really is. It's a sensual sensuality and not sexual And that really shows up in the movie, Like there is an homootic charge between like Brad Pitt and Tom Cruise, but it's never really explicit. It's only something that you read into, Like there's a moment where Tom Cruise like usurped this kind of twink, but like you never see him, like you know, kiss him or anything like that. Like it's it's kind of in the scene with them where

they killed the woman and the dogs, the little fop guy. Um. Yes, but from what I've heard, so there is a new um interview with the Vampire series coming out. It will already be out at the time this episode comes out. It's coming on on AMC. This is part of a deal that was kind of put into play even before Anne Rice died to make a new kind of vampire chronicles like Cinematic Universe, but I think it's mostly happening on TV and in the show The Vampires. I mean,

I've seen trailers and read a couple of reviews. They are very explicitly explicitly gay. So you said you watched Queen of the Damned. I watched, well, I had it on background when I was writing notes for the show. But I did like kind of stopped too every time a Leah was on screen, which was not that much like, yeah, I would, you know, go over and see her makeup looked so good. That's not the movie was. That's not

very gay at all. No, and the movie, I mean I knew that the movie was not um well received um and also that was oh really, I loved it, Okay. I went to see it the day it opened alone. I was not that actively engaged in it, so it can't be like a fair judge, but it was. I felt like there it could have been way more thrilling. But I thought that the rebranding of Liststat as a

rock Star is like so cool. The whole soundtrack for that movie is amazing, And I think that vampires as rock Stars or honestly just like any time, um, someone wants to have a new take on a vampire like that, I'm just immediately engaged. And I also I guess this it was tragically like all shot right before lead was the last thing she did before she died. Yeah, and they the movie's dedicated. It came out, it came out after her death. It's it's posthumous. But it's very different

from the book. Um. The book is much goes much deeper into the lore of how the vampires were created and how Akasha came to be, which I think is really interesting. I found out a really fun factor when I was reading about Queen of the Damn. Apparently, when they were filming that like kind of concert seen in Death Valley, they filled like busses with over three thousand goths and transported them to the Melbourne night clubs. That is so powerful. Three thousand goths, three thousand goths on

on a bus to death How much eyeliner? That is. The whole way that Queen of the Damn starts is that list out is like, well, I'm bored, so I'm gonna go sleep for a couple of decades, and then the only thing that wakes him up is he hears rock and roll and he's like, Okay, I'm gonna be a rock starter. Here we Go. Yeah, and there's also Here we Go. Can you imagine God doing a vampire version of song? Gaga literally has played a vampire. She was the Countess an American Horror Story Hotel. The Countess

is a vampire. Yeah, did you not watch Hotel? No? I haven't. I would love to forgot to put that on the list as a hotel. It's a it's a weird. Is that the only HS that has like true vampires in it? Because I don't remember any other vampires. I think, Wow, I didn't watch Double Feature, which was the most recent season, but I don't think those were vampire. I don't think anybody has watched any recent season of American Horror Story or I have yet to meet one. Okay, so back

to Anne Rice. You know, her vampires I think are gay but sexless. Which is probably why Anne Rice was so against fan fiction. Is because all people wanted to do was make them was make them fuck, and and Rice was like, no, you can't take my toys and make them kiss, which is like, it's like, you know, it's really shitty when creators like that, but said she used to send out cease and desist letters. That's so bad, I know. But she did later change her views on

fan fiction and said she was fine with it. She also did become a born again Christian very late in life, and so a lot of the later Vampire Chronicles books are very religious and like have lots of weird God should in them. Also you find out that maybe vampires are aliens or like we're descended from aliens. I don't know. It got weird towards the end. But the virgins can't see my face, but I'm really scowling now. The idea

of Christian vampires sounds like loser behavior. But you know, Anne Rice did move vampires in a gayer direction in the culture. And I think the thing that really was the final nail in the coffin, Tomato Tomatotato was And I know we're skipping over Buffy, but we have talked about Buffy at length. Um, And Buffy was not very gay besides Willow, and she was only a vampire in a couple episodes. Um, And I mean it is interesting that the first time she was gay was when she

was a vampire. But the thing that was the finally on the coffin, huh, was True Blood, which I think is kind of the first real mainstream media property in which vampires were fucking gay like and also very bisexual and and not in like there were a couple of gay vampires that every vampire on that show was that was bisexual like like truly by like tread and true by and effortlessly by like it was never really or rather sorry, I've only watched the first three episodes, but

like I, from what I understand, it is not like, um, there's not a lot of they don't problematize things that are usually kind of considered like socially wary and like our our universes. And something that was really interesting to me was just like how, um, every character in the show is really hot and an immediate erotic tension between pretty much every character as soon as they enter any room. Yes, and that really is doubled down on throughout the series,

which ran for I think eight seasons. Maybe what would your take be on like the ark of True Blood in terms of like quality or a fan reception, or even just your personal experience of watching the show, Because you're such a kind of a die hard fan. Yeah, so I would say it really captured the public consciousness kind of immediately. It was very much that must watch

Sunday night show. Um. It also got some early awards recognition and a pack when won a Golden Globe for the first season, which is a bit of an l I would never expect that because the sex scenes are really porny, like really good, but it was, um, you know, it was the kind of cultural phenomenon where there's a really iconic rolling stone cover of Anna Paquin and Alexander scars Garden, the actor who played Bill, and they're covered in blood. So it was like it was that kind

of pop culture phenomenon. In terms of quality, season two is incredible, Season three is also incredible. Season four it kind of starts getting weird and then it declines. It is a decline from there, and then the final season is awful and truly the serious finale is the worst serious finale of any TV show I have ever seen, worsting Game of Thrones. Yeah, wow, that's saying something. Yeah, we're so I mean, on par with Game of Thrones.

But you know, the first couple of seasons are so good, and you know, you have someone like Alan Ball, who did American Beauty. He Um was the creator of six ft Under and this was I think kind of um at the time, maybe like a surprising thing for him to do was adapt these So I don't know if you know this, but True Blood is based off of a series of romance novels by Charlene Harris, the Sukie Stackhouse novels, The Suki Stacks. Now, I cannot believe. When

I watched episode one, was like, what's your name? Sick stack Has And I'm like, Bill is not hot, No, he is. He is sexy. He is the sexiest he will ever be in the entire show, in the pilot and then never again. Well he does get uglier actually, but I'm not I'm not saying that he was sexy. I'm saying he is the sexiest he ever was in the pilot and then never again. Yeah, he looks like

like an Easter Easter Island like kind of egghead. And this is also a problem that a lot of vampire media has to contend with, which is that these shows going for so long in the actor's age, yet they're supposed to be playing immortal character. Yeah. I think that's especially bad with sort of teen vampire stuff. I think with you know, elderly vampires, you can fudget a little bit,

but it is a bit of a problem. But as I was saying, you know, this was I think a surprising thing for for for Alan Ball to do when it came out, but you know, he talked about it a lot of the time as and I think it's very obvious in the show right from the beginning that the vampires are a direct metaphor for Queerness. I mean they talk about how the vampires came out of the

coffin and revealed themselves. And I think it's a really interesting premisephore a show which is not only this you know, like Southern Gothic romantic melodrama, but also what would the world be like if all of a sudden we were

living alongside vampires? Right? The humans versus vampires trope I think is probably most effective in this show than any other like vampire thing that I have watched, because it's it's honestly giving a little X men like there is this totally this new class of people that are societally ostracized because of you know, their their history and their kind of like conception of this group of people, and vampires are like, um, vampires are no more violent than humans.

Didn't you guys start wars? Didn't you guys have slaves? Like vampires never had slaves, You know what I mean. It's like, I thought that was so interesting. I was kind of shook by when did this? When did the When was the pilot like early odds like it was UM two thousands seven maybe yeah, And in the first episode there's a literal, like an almost literal Karen in the first episode where she's like, can't speak to the manager and she's kind of accosting Um the black the

black character. I can't remember her name. She's amazing. I'm I'm very I'm just just watched the show last night, UM, and Kara does say UM. One thing I like that she says is in I think the third episode when she's covering for Jason UM, and she says that she didn't when she's lying and saying she didn't want anyone to know because of them being an interracial relationship. And she even says, like, you know, everyone thinks that now with vampires that people don't care as much about race,

but they still do. And like, I think that's such an interesting thing to throw into the mixes, like what happens to oppression and you know, like the way that people are marginalized when a new marginalized classes introduced, you know, like this late into society. Yeah, it was. It was an amazing like mini monologue. And it was funny because it's like it was a full lie to like cover the ass of like her crush essentially. But she was

but she was so smart. She was like she was like, all y'all are out here like staring at anapaquin or whatever for like wanting to get with a vampire, but like people stare at us an interracial couple couple like every day or whatever. And I was like, damn, Like that is a metaphor. Yeah, and sometimes on True Leod the metaphor is very heavy handed, but but it works and it's i mean, True Blood is so hot. The sex scenes are so good and it is really all

every character is by. Every character has some kind of same sex encounter at some point in the show. Something that is introduced pretty early on I think you'll have already seen it is that when the vampires give a human their blood, it means that they start having sexy dreams about them. Right, Wait, I didn't. Okay, when humans drinking vampire blood is something that also happens in Rice, what is this trope? I don't. I didn't actually totally

understand it when I was watching True Blood. Well, it's something that is used in different ways in different kinds of vampire stories. So usually the way that someone has turned into a vampires being fed vampire blood, but a lot of different vampire media also uses vampire blood as a way to heal humans. Um. I think True Blood is the only one at this scale that introduces the idea of vampire blood is an aphrodisiac and even a drug.

And that gets even further complicated later into the first season where you see people who are addicted to v UM, which I think is really fun and interesting that it's this like psychedelic drug that can also like heal your wounds. Oh my god. It becomes like an underground kind of like drug moment um, the kind of U and I would do v in a second. The if you don't know, actually the miss of True Blood, I think the premises

like brilliant um. Basically UM vampires have like kind of revealed themselves to some extent in society and are asking for the same rights that humans have, and they're asking to like live peacefully and civilly among humans. And obviously there's a huge class of humans, usually humans that are kind of moved by Christianity, that don't want vampires to

be a part of their society. And vampires are like, look, there's this new thing called true blood that is synthetically created blood that we can satiate ourselves with so we never have to drink human blood, so y'all are safe, which obviously the pilot is revealing that that's not you know, people still eat humans and whatever. Yeah, there's also a you know, class of vampires who didn't want to come out of the coffin and who still want to exist on the fringes of society so that they can do

whatever they want. And that is an ongoing tension throughout the series. Also, every season of the show kind of introduces a new supernatural creature um who becomes kind of a focal point and in racks with the others. But

you know, we're obviously mostly concerned about the vampires. But back to what I was saying about the the ingesting vampire blood, is something that happens over and over again, is you know, like a human character will get seriously injured and they have to have some vampire blood and then they start having sex dreams of the vampire. So that happens with Sam and Bill at one point they kind of a sexy scene. It happens with Jason and Eric. Jason has a gay thing. Oh yeah, Jason has a

couple of gay things. What Jason. There's a really great gay vampire who's in love with Jason in the second season. It's so funny. Jason's a great character. He's kind of like a He's the Primaria is the himbo. Yeah. Um. And I also, you know, just as you said at the top of the show, like True Blood was one of the first things to be like, vampires fuck, vampires

are gay. And I really do feel like, like, because vampires are canonically bisexual, we at like a Virgin podcast, declare that if few are making a vampire narrative of any kind and these vampires are not by it's historically inaccurate. Yes, which is which is why I have such an issue with the Vampire Diaries, which kind of came out around the same time as True blood, but you also like kind of liked it, right. I watched the first couple

of seasons. There are I think throughout the entire course of the show, which was on for like you know, it's a c W show, so probably like twenty seasons. Um, there were maybe I've actually have watched. There's a really good Jenny Nicholson video about the entirety of the Vampire Diaries,

so watch the on YouTube if you're interested. I think there's like four gay characters throughout the entire show, and none of them are vampires, but all the vampires on that show were very straight and it well, but it's also a very post Twilight show and that it's trying to capture the y a vampire fervor that was happening in the early two thousands, and so because of that, it like it does kind of deal in the same kind of compulsory heterosexuality that Twilight did, but it's also

a very I haven't watched the later seasons, but through watching that Johnny Nicholson video, I've seen clips from it and it is a really good example of you cannot do a vampire show for like eight seasons where people are supposed to be playing teenage vampires because by the end they look old like like Airline, they look like Pearl, look like Pearl and X. Something that is not explored

a lot is vampire children. It's touched on a little bit in Twilight and obviously an interview with the vampire Um. That's the whole thing with Claudia's that she is a woman whose mind keeps aging, but she's stuck in the body of the child, and that is even Um of Gorrier in the books. In the book, what you find out is that the way that things play out from Louie's point of view, which is that Claudia was just captured by the vampire theater and then put to death,

is actually not the whole story. Claudia kind of made a deal with Armand that she would leave Louis if armand could help her get an adult body. Armand played by Antonia Manderaz. So they do things like they cut Claudia's head off and try to put it on the body of an adult vampire and think that the healing will like connect it, but it doesn't work out, and so she they just end up killing her because they're like, well,

whatever that flopped. UM but I bring this up because another piece of vampire media that came out around this time, like early early, it's like maybe like around is the Swedish film let the right one in Have you ever seen it? I think you've talked about it before, but I'm not sure we talked about it. To me, it's one of my it's one of my favorite movies. Um. It's about a child vampire who makes friends with this little boy who's like kind of a loser, and she

is like maybe intersects. That's something that's more explored in the book than in the film. And she has this man that cares for her because you know, this is another trope in vampire media is that vampires often have a you know, a henchman or someone who's in their thrall who does the things that they can't do in

the daytime, Like Renfield in Dracula. Um, she has this like little helper man who's a pedophile who's like obsessed with her, and that's how she's able to get him to, you know, find people for her to feed on because she's too little to do it. She can't like hunt on her own. So this man goes out and kills people for her to feed off of. Oh my gosh. Um, Now, since you're talking about like, um, child vampires, I know

you you're not big on adult cartoons. I also used to say I'm not bigger on adult cartoons, but I'm realizing how many adult cartoons I actually really do watch. Um. Adventure Time is one of my favorite adult cartoons, and there's a serious regular character called Marceline Vampire Queen. Have you ever heard of her? Yes, I have watched some Adventure Really it's it's I know it's not for me. Yeah, I know it's not your t um really great world building.

But something that I think is like worth remarking with Marcelline specifically, is like, I mean, first of all, yeah, they're like all these characters are young, so their world is like very like childlike an immature and like, um nonsensical, and I kind of like love that. Um. But in this world, Marcelyn sucks the color red out of objects like strawberries or like you know, like clothing or whatever, which I think is cute. And she also instead of turning into a bat, she kind of turns into this

like giant, like anthropomorphized like bat monster. And she also is like she plays music, like she plays a guitar in the shape of like a double headed axe. Like it's so cool, and they're like and that for me, Like when I'm exploring any sort of like vampire like franchise at like I want to see you invent something like we all know and that I think a lot of like the things that we've discussed today, do do that? You know what I mean? We do? Do do do

do that? Um? We all know the tropes of vampires, right, it's at the top of Interview with a vampire where the interviewer is like, so can I kill you with a steak? So? Do you hate the sunlight? So what about garlics? So what about the coffin thing? You know, it's kind of like confirming or debunking these things we historically know about vampires and Anne Rice setting her world of vampires saying, this is what vampires do, So like I appreciate that, Like when Inventure Time is like, this

is what vampires do. It's like their rock stars and they play music, and like I just like we'll always appreciate that. And there's also um, she's like at the when she's introduced, she's like high key, like a landlord, Like she evicts Finn from like his apartment or something like that. It's really funny. And he's really scared of

Marceline at first because she's a literal vampire. And when they get into their very first altercation at the end of the episode, they end up like, I having some kind of fun and they get into this fight and and Finn goes like, why didn't you kill me? And she's like, because I'm having fun, you know, And that is kind of what happens in every vampire movie and show ever. It's like, why don't you just kill her?

And the vampire is like, because I'm having fun. Because the angst of my immortality, which the anguish of immortality, is in every single vampire story ever, and it's soothed by companionship every time. I think, what every new vampire story has to do is reckon with how does that kind of vampire deal with that? Is it by wanting the companionship of another vampire, by wanting an immortal companion? Is that by wanting, you know, a human plaything all the time. Is it by wanting to just go out

and murder people? Is it by wanting to like an Only Lover's Left Alive, which is a great little indie film starring Tildas Winton and Tom Hiddleston. All the vampires want to do is they just want to go see live music all the time, Like that's how they spend their turn. Yeah I heard about that, and um yeah,

that's that's. That's what happens when you have a mythical being that exists in this much TV, movies, literature, anything, and have so many tropes associated with them, is you have to find a way to put a new spin on it. And I think what creators do is they either lean really hard into what's come before or completely rejected.

So like on one side you have Stephanie Meyer who's like, my vampires sparkle and like they don't have things, or you have something like what we do in The Shadows, which is we're going to lean into every existing vampire trope to use as like a short hand to make this funny. So it's like we're bit we're playing in a sandbox that already exists, and that's the whole fun of and making the tropes like way goofi or more extreme.

I guess I haven't seen it one thing I hate in vampire stuff is when the vampires desperately want to become human again, because that's just when does that is that kind of in and it's a thing in blood, it's a thing in Vampire Diaries. It does happen to I think maybe a couple of characters in and right, like they're transformed back to humans somehow. It's a thing. And Buffy, Um, it's a thing in Oh this book.

I just read Reluctant Immortals, which is about Lucy from Dracula and Bertha, Rochester's first wife in Jane Eyre, the Madam and in the Attic, and it's about them being immortal beings who have found each other and they lived together in nineteen sixties Los Angeles. I did not know that the woman in the attic was named Bertha. Her name's Bertha. Um, you've never read White sargassoc. That's a Charlotte,

that's a Bronte Sisters. No, it was written by a gene Rice, and it's a sort of feminist retelling of Jane Eyre from the point of view of Bertha. Oh my god. And so in this novel it kind of takes some liberties with Jane are obviously, and it's like Rochester like somehow made Bertha immortal, and he and Jane

are also immortal. And at some point Bertha like linked up with Lucy who killed Dracula and now keeps his ashes so that he'll never be able to like reconstitute himself and you know, terrorize her again and then just kind of like hating being immortal, and like spoiler alert, the book ends with them aging again. And so why

do you hate that troupe? I think it's because vampire media has to show vampires as wanting to be human because humans are watching or reading, or you know, in some way imbibing the story, and so you have deposit that humanity is the ideal um and that to me

is boring. I think it would be a vampire Okay, I agree, because that thing that I said earlier about like the anguish of immortality that shows up in all of these titles is like repetitive, or at least I felt that when when I was watching Interview with a Vampire specifically, I was like, Louis is literally just floating through centuries of life hating being a vampire, and nothing

is really happening beyond that. I mean, I really liked the movie, just you know, for the record, but I I did also find it kind of repetitive, and I'm curious what's the like nuancing of that, right, Like, I think that when like humanity and immortality clash in all these different narratives, there's almost a missed opportunity for them to have a new conversation around like what it means to live forever or not and what the appeals are are not because yeah, I do feel like it's repetitive,

it does bring us full circle back to our question of the top of the episode, which is would you want to live forever? Would you want to be a vampire? The idea of vampire orgies and eternal wisdom are really appealing to me. I think that that is something I could funk with, But not if I was in a kind of societal situation where everyone was hunting me. I think that would cause a lot of anxiety. Would kind

of feel like being canceled. It kind of like I would be a full recluse, like scared to leave the house and would delete all my social media. That's why I want to know. I think honestly, I as much as I am attracted to vampires in books and TV and movies. Um, I think they are endlessly fascinating and I love all the new ways that they're explored. I don't think I want to be one because when it comes down to it, I just I don't want to live forever. That is like, honestly the worst thing I

can imagine. So you and I should co write a weird al Yankovic kind of like spoof of Queens who wants to Live Forever? And it can be called who Doesn't want to Live Forever? I don't want to live forever? So it's just a song about suicide. Yeah, Okay, so you don't want to be a vampire. But if you were a vampire, which m vampire universe, of all the things we've discussed, would you want to be in? Okay, this is a great question, a question you wrote, I

must say, yeah. So honestly, I think there's different pros and cons. Okay, I don't want to be an an Rice vampire because I want to be able to fun, you want to fuck. I don't want to be a buffy vampire because they're you know, demons and they also you know, have an ugly face. They do have ugly face. I don't want to be, you know, like a Dracula vampire, although I guess turning into a bat would be cool.

I'm going to say I actually think true blood vampires are kind of the ideal because they are sexy, they fuck, they have superpowers. The downside is like having to sleep in a coffin and not being able to go out in the sun. But like, I wear a ton of SPF every day anyway, try to be in the sun as little as possible, So I think like that kind of works out. Yeah, vampires really, you know, they have

an issue with sunlight. But like, girl, just get some supp get some supergroup girl, get some SPF, get some unseen sunscreen. Okay, Um, I think I would also say true blood. My first instinct was to say Adventure Time because I just think the world is so fun and innocent and that the steaks are a lot lower. But I do want to fuck um. And also a lot of adventure Time takes place in space, which you and I on this podcast have no no, we do not. We do not endorse space in the concept space famously

very far away. Um, we do not funk with it. So yeah, I would pick true blood. Okay, we're going to be true blood vampires, but I'm not drinking that synthetic ship. I want organic, homegrown, farm to table blood. Yeah. I love the line in the pilot that honestly outlines the tension of probably the whole season, where I think anapaq one is like, well they have true blood now like it's athetic black blah blah blah. And he's like, would you give up a life of eating like fresh

food for slim fast? And I was like, yeah, tea, no nobody would. I wouldn't know. I want to live deliciously. I do want to live deliciously, um, just not immortally. No, I do not want to live forever. I don't even want to live the rest of this week. So thank you for listening to all of our Halloween episodes. It's been such a fun month of doing these. I'm obviously very sad that we won't be doing spooky stuff anymore, but I'm sure we'll have some, you know, special surprises

and exciting things happening for the holidays. We like a version, also believe in spooky behavior all year long. That is true. You know they say that Pride is three five days a year, but Oooky Spooky is three hundred sixty five days a year. Pride does not three d six or five days a year. Pride is actually zero daisy. But next week we'll be back, um sadly, you know, without a bonus episode. We'll be back to our regularly scheduled programming and let us know what you think about vampires,

which vampire you want to fuck the most? Also, like tell us what you thought of our you know, super special Halloween bonus episodes. You can slide into our d M s at Like a Virgin for we really want to hear from you. Also, please leave us a review on Apple podcast or rating on Spotify. It helps us out so much. I am your co host Rose Damn You. You can find me anywhere you want to online at Rose Damn You, and I'm frant Roto. You can find

me at Friends, Swish go anywhere you like. You can subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts. Like a Virgin is an I Heart radio production. Our producers Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, j Crane Chich and Nikki etre until next week see later. Virgins uh