An Interview with Best Woman Herself, Rose Dommu

is it. This is a stop on your pressed for This is the like a virgin special edition, special edition RSS feed drop, the rare RSS feed drop, as long as we can pressure Phoebe into posting it because neither of us know how to do that. Yeah, and it will, it will, Yeah, and you know this, this uh formally will be the official official Friend and Rose interview about a book called Best Woman by Rose DomU. It is available and purchasable for pre order on bookshop dot org

among other websites. You also, if you're in New York, you have to come and see Rose and heron Walker in conversation at the Strand on September twenty third, really chic date, September twenty Russia. You can get your take. I think there's like a ticket option with a book and a ticket option without a book available in Rose's link tree, in her bio or a social Bible. Will also put a linked tickets in the description of this podcast episode, so you can mosey on over there to

get your ticket. I want to see you there. I'll be there. There's also a Los Angeles event there is I'm going to be in Los Angeles doing an event at Annabelle's Book Club on October eighth I'm also going to be at Greedy Read's in Baltimore on October second, Baltimore, and I'm going to be in both gratone on October eighteenth, and literally my entire family and all my mom's friends will be there, which I love. And if you're not familiar,

I mean Deer's Virgins. I know you've heard us talk about Rose's book in some capacity or another, basically every other episode of the podcast. You know we've been edging. We've been edging, edging edge Lords. We are. If you're not familiar already with the premise of Roses book, it does take place in Boca Raton, Florida, or large large portions of it take place in book Raton, Florida, where

Rose is from. I kind of want to give. I want you to give us a little summary, but like, can you start by telling us what Booka Ratone, Florida is, Like maybe how it influenced your malgoth persona, your your personal malgoth persona, and then I guess, kind of how does it become the backdrop for this book. Boca Ratone is a very weird place, which is why I always wanted to write a book that was set there. And there's a lot of old people there, So that's Heaven's

waiting room, God's waiting room. Yes, I know, I've made that joke on this podcast several times. Yeah. I mean it's a lot of like very affluent people, a lot of old people, a lot of Jewish people. Ariana Grande is from there. Ariana Grande is from there, as am I mother Teresa's from there. It's a very weird place to be a child, yes, just because everyone so old. Like the neighborhood I grew up in, there were no other children in. You had no peers, no peers, you

only had old. I only had old. So I do think that really explains a lot why I am the way I am kind of does. And there's this kind of with the again, we're going to get into the plot of the book. But the character of this book, Best Woman kind of uh comes in. It kind kind of interfaces with the kind of JENSI quad the kind of on we of is that's how it's pronounced right

on on we Yeah, I've did. I used to pronounce that anwie yes, yes, the on wee of returning to your childhood, returning to your like childhood bedroom, or returning to your returning to your hometown, and the just like the great sadness, the great and unamable sadness that it kind of instills in you, yes, and also the string and the kind of immediate regression that happens when you

return home. I noticed for so long that every time I would visit home, I would immediately I would like, within eight hours, I would become fifteen again, and I would be like, oh mom, And that is such a tense experience. It's so weird to go somewhere where everybody knows you, but like no one actually really knows you. Yeah. And it's like so that the primary character, Julia, she kind of comes home specifically for a wedding, and in she's kind of immediately reminded of like a lot of

like I want to say, like ghosts. That sounds like a little more dramatic than it actually is. But there's a lot of these kind of ghosts of her, of her past, of her growing up, of just like what it felt like to be in Boca that I think are very I just related to them part, even though because I'm from a suburb, I don't know if Bocaca. Okay, so I'm from this I'm kind of from the suburbs. I was born on the South Side, was raised in

the suburbs. And there's this just kind of like really weird dissonance that you experience, especially I mean definitely as a queer person, especially as a transperson reinstating yourself in this context. Anyways, Okay, I'm being very terrogressed right now, but will you do me the honor of giving a plot summary for the people that are not awareer of the of course. So Best Woman is about Julia Rosenberg, who is a trans woman in her late twenties living in New York City. She is a couple of years

into her transition. Right before she started transitioning, her brother got engaged and asked her to be the best man at his wedding, and then when she transitioned, she became the best woman, the best woman. At the beginning of the novel, she's a couple of weeks out from the wedding and going to get her best woman dress, best woman dress. And I've never actually done this thing that happens in the book, which is like the appointment to

get your dress that everyone has to wear. Yeah, ever done that either, But I've watched a lot of says to the dress, so I feel like I have an understanding of it. Okay. So she finds out that early in the novel that the maid of honor in her

brother's wedding has dropped out. Slash been kicked out because she was uncomfortable with the idea of walking down the aisle with Julia because she is transphobic, and now replacing the maid of honor is Kim Cameron, Julia's number one ultimate high school crush, who is a very hot, sexy, confident lesbian. As a reader, this is this is the part where you realize that this book is an entry into the sapphic kind of romance canon. Yes, it is

truly a lesbian romance. What's a bisexual Bulia. Julia is by sexual and she does. She does have a male love interest in the novel too, who's more of just like a hometown hookup. Because she is she is a chaotic bisexual slut and I love her for that. So what the tension of the novel kind of hinges of is. During an early interaction where Julia has seen Kim again, she makes the mistake of telling this little white lie, which is that her family is actually more transphobic transphobic

than they actually are. They're actually pretty accepting. She does this in a very misguided bid to gain Kim's sympathy to her. Yes, because of an interaction that they have, and and because she is kind of at this place in her transition where she feels like she has accomplished a lot of her goals and feels affirmed in a

lot of ways. But this girl kind of represents this like last hurdle of her womanhood, which is this lesbian who she was obsessed with in high school and knew she would never be able to get because at that time she presented as male. And so she has this idea that if she's able to successfully you know, kind of con this girl into likely lightly but con into being interested in her romantically. Then that will be proof that she really is the woman she has always wanted

to be and seen herself as. This is very much inspired by my best friend's wedding, and you know, the idea of a very unlikable protagonist who lies and makes bad decisions to get what she wants. And I really wanted to see a trans character be able to do that because I feel like in a lot of a lot of media depictions of trans people they have to be either like saints or victims or a murderers, And I wanted to see a really complicated trans protagonist who you just kind of want to shake and go what

are you doing? Like are you doing? I very much see Julia as like a little sister. I'm like, what is wrong with you? So that is the setup, and then the bulk of the novel takes place over the wedding week in book ratone, as Julia reunites with her family, all while staying connected to her friends back in New York City who are like very much her chosen family. And there's a really big cast of kooky characters, shenanigans, En, Sue, and there's some steamy hookups and some very painful growth

for lots of the people involved. I don't want to give too much of the book away, but I want to dig a little bit more into the plot in that. So, as you mentioned, there's this the the thematic tension kind of starts with this, uh this, like, I guess, like not so great choice of emotionally manipulating her high school crush Kim Cameron at a cheesecake factory. And a dream of mine was always to set a scene in a novel at factory. And I did it, and you did it,

and it felt like I was there. Maybe we never had our cheesecake factory day, remember when we were supposed to have our our like a virgin holiday party, but we couldn't because what COVID something like that like that.

But yeah, so so the the all of the tension kind of starts in this moment where like Julia decides to lie and save her family's a little transphobic, and it kind of works immediately and Kim Cameron has all of this cis guilt that like she like soaks the conversation and being like, oh my god, you I mean she's not like you, poor thing. But the affect is

very like you poor thing. It's very the subtext is very You're so brave, and you're so brave, and oh, I want to take care of you, and oh, this is like maybe feeding already a kind of funny romantic dynamic as well, because it is immediately I would say it's I think it's pretty clear from jump that Kim is into Julia, like she kind of said she she all but says that that's a possibility, but it's also it's like like with in terms of like her actions,

but it's also like she doesn't. It's not immediately, do you know what I mean? Well, it's I think it's more so that Kim's interest is very clear, but Julia can't or won't let herself believe it. She can't trust it, and she thinks that this manipulation of the truth is kind of justified because this girl will never organically like her when the evidence is staring her right in the face.

And you know, I don't want to give too much away, but there is a point like through the novel where it is pretty clear that Kim is interested in her, and even knowing that, Julia still continues on with her deception because she is an incredibly anxious, insular person. Like that was one of the most fun parts of the novel, was, you know, it's toll from first person perspective, and you spend so much time in Julia's head. She really overthinks everything.

That's one of the ways in which she is like me. And even with the proof of all of these different things, her her family's acceptance, this girl's interest staring her in the face, she still is seeing demons around every corner, and what is the name? So if so, she lies and she says her family's not that accepting. It's more so that it's more so that she doesn't correct Kim

when she makes a sort of assumption. And I think that's why Julia feels kind of almost like self righteous about it, is like, well, she already assumed, and so I'm just not correcting her, And it was her fault for assuming in the first place that I was some like poor little tranny that she needed to save. And the real life nature of Julia's relationship with her family is kind of more like, you know, mom and Dad might might not have been totally understanding of it initially,

but ultimately really really understanding. She also has an older brother and two twin siblings, two younger twin siblings. The brother, I think I could say is like the most accepting, but on the hint of this lie, Julie kind of positions him as maybe the least accepting kind of Yeah,

she really throws him under the bus, the darkest lie. Yeah, that is the darkest lie because with the rest of her family, you know, like, what I really wanted to explore is this nuance of queer acceptance where your family can, you know, say all the right things and do the right things, but there's still kind of a stinky vibe of like, you know, it's still all a little conditional, the way that you use a she her pronoun with an emphatic kind of or it's like, I only see

you as a woman if you do these certain things

that I expect a woman is supposed to do. And with Julia's brother, Aidan, he really is the one in her family who has embraced her identity the most, and maybe even more so than well no, with her mother there her transition did bring them closer in a way, and with her and Aiden, they've always been close and Aiden's Aiden's he's her younger brother, so like a young oh and with Aiden, like they were always close and so her her transition really changed nothing about their relationship,

which is like such great proof to her that she has the support she is looking for and why it makes it all the harder to justify what she's done. And that is the place I wanted her to be.

I really wanted the reader to be really frustrated with Julia, because that's fun, yeah, and like, well, that frustration is really I think that frustration is the thing that is like perhaps in my experience of reading the book, the most interesting part of it, which is that like you know, her her mom and dad are like very accepting now, but they've come a little ways to get there, and

so there's still this like there's this tension. There's just feeling like the certain the way the way her mom uses that she her pronent still feels a little a type of way, or that this these very little ways that SIS people, SIS family meverse can still disappoint us even when they're trying, creates this like negative kind of foil to it that I think, and sometimes it's the trying that feels hard, like like what like because like sometimes like the lack of effort is the effort, you know,

when someone is not making it clear that there's something different or weird or quote unquote special about you, versus when someone is clearly putting an effort, when there's an emphasis on the she or the girl, or when assist girl is like hey lady, you know like that that is almost more hurtful than an out as would rather

like them. Yeah, it's funny, but like I the I think in throughout the whole book, you depict something that I've never really seen in any media before, not to representation, but like it's it's something that I've never really seen depicted before, which is that it's this transgender urge to play up your trauma or oppression or to balloon that frustration inside of you to a degree that feels manipulative or punitive to those around you, you know what I mean.

Like it's like it's this thing where you're kind of like you're like, oh, I am the victim, I'm the victim, or these are my perpetrators, and in reality it's like really really not that dynamic is not actually real, Like it's it's much more nuanced than that, but it also comes from a real place because when your trands like you do, live in this constant fear of you know, the turf around the corner, constant victimhood, and your marginalize,

you're minoritized in every interaction, and so you can't help but expect that from people to an unhealthy extent, and it actually can lead to being very unfair to people who are not giving you that energy at all. Yes, exactly. And I think like Aid and the Brother is maybe the primary example of this. There's almost even a level of it that comes from Kim who kind of I mean as a reader, I immediately had these like alarm bells in my head about how the Crush would speak

about transness or just like acceptance in general. We have this like movie, this like after school special idea like trans acceptance, so that SIS people can have a trans acceptance that is like very grading. Okay, there's also a kind of wait, what is even There's there's some sort of slang term for like trade you have at your hometown. What is it? It's it's just like like a town hookup.

It's like an old flame. It's kind of like basically Julia has this old flame named Ben Ben who is her brother's friend brother and one of the grooms men, who is someone who feels like comfortable and life just one is one of those hookups that like just knows your body, and so hooking up always feels like easy

and giggly and fun. Well, and also the special thing for her is they were hooking up before she transitioned right right, and so he's been this like constant in her life and someone who was equally attracted to her in both presentations. So that is really comfortable. Like I think at one point I wrote that like hooking up with him was like putting on a pair of like the perfectly worn and old jeans, you know, which is

such a which is such a goal. When you have a person who is like you're just like very comfortable around can get off with. It's like really easy, you don't have to put in too much effort. They know you really well, they know your body. Kind of kind of goals. It's been so long since I've had an old Jean's hook up, but it's like it's almost too comfortable. Like Julius still is like she she understands that if

she was like kind of a simpler person. She could like let that be enough for her and like let herself love this person. But she's not simple. She's not a simple girl. She's very complicated. Sweet Home Alabama. Yeah, it's sweet of Alabama. I mean everything is sweet Home Alabama to me. Sweet Homo Alabama, Sweet Homo Alabama, three sweet trans Sweet sweet Home Trallabama, Tranabama. What we're like the what we're like the most? Okay? Actually, no, no, The

question I want to ask actually is what changed? Because you know, I was like with you in like cafes in Los Angeles when you were writing the first drafts, in the first chapters of this book and somewhere along the years long process. Because how many how many years did it take you? It's been a little over three years since I started writing the book, Okay, so but you completed the manuscript like a year you know, yeah,

a year and a half ago. Okay, so it's like two and a half years of writing essentially in that two and a half year process. What changed? Like? What was there? Is there? Like it doesn't have to be everything, but like, what's something specific, whether like a plotline or character or a dynamic or I know that the ending changed that you don't need to share that, But is there something else about when you were, like, you set out to write this book and it ended up being

that book. Yeah, I think it started off as more of a kind of cut and dry romantic comedy and it ended up being much more of a family drama and coming of age novel because the romantic comedy was really kind of like the like chocolatey rapper around a sort of more like bitter center that was this like exploration of family and identity and growing up and love and kind of like lures you into a book that I hope like has some pretty deep things to say.

It does about all of those things it actually really does. I mean the family drama, well, the thoughtfulness of a family drama is really in the book when she when her inner monologues kind of pop off. She has like a range of like inner monologues about transness, acceptance, family presentation, love, et cetera throughout the book that are really really beautiful in my favorite parts to read. When you were writing it, you had quite a lot of references. Obviously, we've referenced

my best friend's wedding. I think we talked about Red, White and Robe but at one point, even though they have virtually nothing to do with each other. But the big one was actually Garden State a way, I don't wait talk to me about that. So, I mean, Garden State is one of my favorite movies, and I revisit it quite often. Actually, today's kind of a perfect day to watch it, because it's like Rainy. That was in mind a lot, because that is a movie that is

about coming home for a family event. In that case it's a funeral. In this case it's a wedding. But the idea of forcing yourself back into a life that you have outgrown and but also still being able to find the beauty in that former life and some kind of comfort in it while knowing that you have still transcended it. And also you know that the family and that is Jewish, and you know this Julia is Jewish. Her family is very culturally Jewish, and so that is

a big part of the novel as well. Truly likes Cafelta fish wait right yeah, which is famously disgusting. It is famously discuss and she does. There is a vomit scene early in the scene is really satisfying. I need to see that as a movie. You also reference wait, what is it for wedding? Four Weddings and a Funeral? What it was that? Again, I've never seen it, I don't think, or if I have, I don't. It's some no, not what's the movie I'm thinking about about a funeral?

I'll remember later. Four Weddings and a Funeral is a Richard Curtis movie. He made Nodding Hill and kind of all those British romantic comedies with Hugh Grant. It stars Hugh Grant and Annie McDowell and it is a movie where you experience this group of friends as they go to over the course of a couple of years, four different weddings and one funeral. And there very much is a chosen family in it. There's a lot of you know,

like sexy romantic drama, some lying and manipulation. There is some like very intense sadness with you know, the funeral of it all. And it was a movie I had never watched until I started writing the book and was like actively seeking out romantic comedies about weddings to sort of be inspired by. And that was definitely a big one. Any other because okay, so I'm basically trying to paint for the consume, for the consumer of this book, sorry to be all sales. It's like, if you like for

weddings in a funeral, you like best No. This is literally how we're marketing the books. I would also say I would also say my big fact Greek wedding, yes, because of the the kookie crazy family who are very much like a huge like, this isn't a book where the family are on the sidelines. There are a really active part of the story, as are Julia's friends who are her family. I also the number of times I

brought this up on like A version is embarrassing. But then in real life starring Steve Carrell never seen and Juliette Binoche stunning family drama where you're always trying to get me to watch a movie with Julia Boch and we should watch it right now. Uh yeah, what any any other films or books that could be comps to this where it's like, if you like this, you like

Best Women. I think if you like well, I know, you know the the authors that that my publisher really like trying to compare it to or people Casey mcwisten did blurb the book, Yell, Dolly Alderton, Emily Henry. Yeah, I did get some really great blurbs from some authors I so deeply admire and respect, like Casey Mccuisten, Kristin Arnett, J P. Brammer. I was very touched by their their

thoughts about my book, and Tory Peters Casey. But Casey said irresistibly fresh, bright, funny, and with singular voice, this is the kind of romance I've been waiting for, and we're so lucky to finally have it. Wow. Anointed by Jesus themselves, incredible, anointed by queer romance. Jesus, queer romance Jesus. Casey mcquest has anointed and blessed this but read this book and blurbed it. I want to know, Wait, were there any Is there anybody that like you went out

to that didn't that didn't blurb them? No, I got you got all your blurbs. Yeah, what I didn't know that you've got a hundred Yeah, I mean Tory, Tory, Casey and Kristen were like my holy trinity of blurbs, and they all said yes, and we're so happy to do it. That's that's been one of the really amazing things about doing this is how generous other authors have been with their time, with their advice. Uh, Like, I had coffee with Haley Jacobson a couple of weeks ago.

Haley Jacobson wrote another queer novel called Old Enough that is really like a campus novel also is very much a coming of age story, and she we had this this coffee date because we met at the Meta Pride book Fair this summer, the Meta Pride book that I

did my first ever reading of Best Women at. And we had coffee and she like gave me some really amazing reassurance about just like the process of publishing a debut novel, and like the fact that it's not all about pub day or pub week and that novels have such a longer lifespan and really can like build up a following over that, and also just like navigating what it's like to have a book that is so like identity first and that's the way that it's going to

be perceived and talked about, which was so helpful. Well, that's the I mean, that's the kind of annoying thing about marketing a book with transcaracter in it or queer characters in it is that it immediately becomes trademark LGBTQ bookshelf section of borders. But you know what I was really happy and kind of gagged about was that my team at no point was like, Okay, well, we have to publish your book in June. It's a queer book. Well no, no, no shade to queer authors who do

publish their books during Pride month, but it does. It does feel very much like a siloing of queer art that it's only important at the time when people are kind of trained to pay attention to it. And the fact that my publisher really believed that my book had mainstream appeal and legs and like didn't want me to silo. Didn't want to silo me. Like that meant a lot,

which it does. I mean, I read, I finished. It took me months to read the book because I famously can't read, but I did finish it with Rose Damu at Fire Island at a Beautiful Fire Island share courtesy of Joel Kim Booster. And I remember closing the book, I had like, well you saw me like gasp multiple times because the ending has some gags and some twists, and it is a roller coaster. There was a there's a there's a moment where I truly, truly audibly gasped.

But all that to say, I immediately wanted to I immediately started fan casting it, and I was like, what has do you have aspirations for this book to be a film? I would love. I would love if it were. I have, we have interests I have, I have film and TV agents. Who are you know sending me around to meet people to talk about that. I think it would be so cool to see this movie, this book that was inspired by romantic comedy films, to become a film.

I also think the state of romantic comedy movies right now is pretty die and this could be a good injection into that. Yeah, my dream would be, of course that because this is inspired by my best friend's wedding. If Julia Roberts were to play the mother character, you're gonna say, Julia so sickening Julia Roberts or maybe Sarah Jessica Parker could play, could play Dana Jessica Parker wasn't

Oh no way, no, she wasn't. She wasn't, she wasn't. Sorry, that is I'm thinking of the movie that's exactly like Dan and this woman blindness Dan in real life movie, but it's you're talking about the family Stone. The family Stone, Julia Roberts would be fabulous. I was there's no there are I was just talking to somebody the other day. There are no transactresses period, Like, there are none. Yeah,

it would have to be a breakout. That's that's what I would want, like because I just think we need to be opening the door, like I know, as much as possible. I know, like Hari and like Jesse, James Kittle will be given the script, but like who, like, there are actually no transactresses and this would be the most delicious role for what is a huge, huge, huge population of transaction actresses that are ready to break out.

And you know, I really it was important to me that Julia not be the only trans character in her story.

You know, there are a few she and that is kind of what is so hard for her about going Home is she goes from a life where she is surrounded by queer people and never interacts with straight people really and then goes to Boca Ratone to a wedding and this is her first time seeing her whole extended family since transitioning, and that is a huge moment in a queer person's life, you know, kind of re meeting everyone in a way. A family wedding is pretty much

the most cisgender thing that can happen. Well. Weddings, I think are I mean, there's a reason why so many stories are set at weddings. They are so high stakes, there's so much drama, there's so much gender, like like the concept of gender, like the bride and groom of it all like they are. They're this sort of operatic stage for family drama, romantic drama. The bridal party becomes

the chorus. And it also like weddings have a very natural beginning middle and it has the kind of like surprise and delight of the bachelor slash bachelorette parties, the bachelors parties, and an opportunity to serve some looks with which Julia gets to do thanks thanks to one of the one of the most fun things I had I got to do in writing this novel is I got to invent a fake pop star who is the source of Julia's couture wedding looks, and that was that was

super fun. I got to like think about you know, like what what she would be wearing to like serve invoke a retone. And I know that this is the most These are the most annoying questions to get as an author slash. They're kind of dereguer in the literary world to ask about real life counterparts. But if you were you modeling this pop star after anybody specifically or a combination of anybody, she's kind of just an amaglamation

of a bunch of people. Like I just needed to come up with like a like a B list or maybe even C list pop star, plus like someone who someone who would like be on the red carpet of the VMA's, but not the Grammys, not the Grammys, the VMAs which are tonight upon recording tonight, okay, on that, on that, well, okay, any other and it will let me pin this any other fan casting you would do, any other celebrities that you would like to be in this.

I know this is like so so ghosh, but like I do actually, I mean we know that Charlene, we would ask Charlene to play Daytona. Were are you one of the producers. I'm definitely a creative producer on this film. If I don't have a credit. Well, Riot Daytona bitch, who is Julia's closest Her name is Daytonah bitch. I didn't know that that was I forgot that she is like the probably the one of two characters in the book who are most closely modeled on someone I know

in real life. And she is very heavily inspired by my dear friend Charlene. So yeah, I would love I would love to have for who's the other character? My grandpa is like basically copy it pasted into this book just because like lawyer Grandpa. Yeah, because I really wanted He's such a He's such a singular character that I really wanted to immortalize him in fiction. I know you're just starting your press tour, but I do feel like

you will you will experience. I think you'll get a lot lot of questions about the book versus real life because you're also from Boca, because there are some thematic and character through lines in your life that are similar to Julia's life. There's this sicky thing that can happen on a pressed horror in your panels and your interviews, et cetera, where people want to know about the real quote unquote real life of it all, or like what is the closest space, what is what is close to

your reality? How does it how how do you plan on interfacing with those questions? Because it's it is just again, it's it's it's any anybody in the literary world knows that. It's kind of like it's like not impolite, it's like truly not about the work. It's it's not it's not

a way to look at the work. It's tricky to navigate because it almost it almost feels or at least it you I think it's easy to feel like defect of in a way to and view it as this sort of gotcha, like, oh, you didn't come up with

any of this. You just like you know, basically wrote about your real life and change the names, which is like sorry, Like literally literally every single writer ever in existence writes things based on life like it's it's not like not saying based on your life, not based on like real like your real life, but like we write from lived experience or even like fucking Italo Calbino or whatever the fuck like writes things that have something to

do with life, and it's really it's really only something women get asked. Men do not get asked that question. Yes, period, and men have been copy pasting their their life into their work for millennia. Yeah, so yeah, it is tricky

to navigate. I've been kind of not cagey about it, but I've been like sharing just little tidbits, and I think, like, what, what I'm most comfortable saying is that some of these circumstances in the novel are pulled from my own experiences, and definitely some of Julia's family are inspired by my own. But the actual you had a wedding, I had a wedding, But the actual series of events and the way in which they happen our total fiction. And Julia is not me and I, And actually that is one of the

things that changed over the course of the novel. I think I intended to write her a lot more like me and she really it's such a trite thing that authors say. It's like characters tell you who they are, and they evolve by themselves. Like she really did become this like totally separate person for me. And what I said earlier is really the way, the truest way I can say it is like, because I have younger sisters.

She really does feel like a little sister to me who I am like want to shake and be like, please make better decisions the way. She's not like you. She's not as driven as I am. She's not an artist. She's not a creative person. I did not want to make her, you know, like a writer or whatever. She's okay, she is. I think she's me in some way. It definitely like her anxieties are are are very similar to mine. She's a light gothisthet a light well maybe she's a

former punk. She's a little bit. Yeah, she's a little bit more punk than I am. And yeah, she's like a lot less driven and a lot less sure of herself. Like even though I suffer from a lot of anxiety, like I've pretty much always put yoursel that's pretty much always known from a very young age what I wanted and who I wanted to be. And Julia, it's taken her much longer to figure that out, and a lot

of it she still hasn't figured out. I'm sorry to ask us, did you have a lesbian crush in high school? I definitely did not. I did note, but but there is there is a scene the crush is so palpable. I feel like you. I definitely transposed a lot of gay yearning that I felt in high school onto Julia's bisexual yearning. The book kind of jumps back and forth through time occasionally to like give you more context on

Julia's backstory. And there's this scene I think it's it might be the first jump back where it's a scene where her where Julia pretransition, is being driven home by her crush, Kim Cameron. And it is the most relatable portrayal of like a high school crush. It's just delicious. It's like so and also excruciating. It's excruciating, but it feels it. I just I love high school crush books. I love books like this because they get you so intimately in touch with what that felt like when you

were that age. Okay, uh okay, anything else about real life that you want to discuss, No, I want to keep it a little bit of a mystery. If this book had a soundtrack, it actually does. There's a playlist that is it published? It's out? It's out? Yeah? Is that? If we would mac on it? What's on it? What's on it? Is it on your Spotify? I want to I want to know, we'll pull it up. But anyways, I bring it up. I bring this up because there's

just a lot of music in the book. There's a lot of like there's a lot of like references to certain artists and songs that will like paint their way through scenes and like not even I not even place you in time, to place you in the culture that she belongs to, and like the ecosystem of like queer nightlife that she comes from, or the kind of late

nineties early aught sense, like radio sensibility. Yeah. So some of the songs in the playlist Black Velvet by Alana Miles, Ray of Light by Madonna, Educated Guests by Anita Franco, Prologue from Into the Woods, Pearl Jam there is Fleetwood, mac Kate Bush, Torri amos Selene Dion, Jonny Mitchell, Phantom of the Opera the Opera wa case of You. Okay, love that I forgot that Joni put her music back on Spotify. Oh you have a Moon River cover. That's fair.

I was going to ask about Audrey Hepburn. Okay, I yeah, I think to who I know? This is not for you to decide, but to ask you. Anyways, who's this book for. It's for trans people. It's for trans people. Yeah, also sis people. It is for SIS people, because I think SIS people do need to like see inside the mind of a trans person. But yeah, it's for it's

for trans people. It's for trans people who who should be able to see their lives reflected in fiction, and not always in the most extreme of ways, like it they should be able to have this sort of like fantasy, escapist, romantic comedy experience the same way that that SIS people

get to. Yeah, and and well, I think i've I can't remember if I've mentioned this on the pod before, if I I talked about your book for in a Pride video series a couple of months ago, and I was talking about how something that I think that the best kind of writing about queerness and transness is one where in the book has a trans character and has no need to come to a screeching halt to like explain that, you know what I mean, Like the trans character exists, and where we have this like this, like

this plotting of emotional manipulated manipulation as whatever we want to call it, tagged to her transness. The book in and of itself doesn't interface with like only transphobia, like it the book, like kind of the Shenanikins and the rompang around has is like so much more than that.

It's actually just it's just entertaining, yes, but it's still it's still is all explicitly tied to her transness, because I really set out to write a story in which the plot couldn't exist if the character wasn't trans. Those are the kinds of stories I'm interested in, and I'm so inspired by other trans authors who have done that, you know, people like Gretchen Valger Martin and Tory Peters who are writing you know, because I feel like so so often the part line is like and it doesn't

even matter, It doesn't even matter that she's trans or like, and she just happens about that. It's extremely about that, because our lives and the ways we interact with the world are different because of our transness, and that is not something that we should minimize. And they haven't been written yet, Like, yes, your book belongs to like an amazing slate of like trans author authors publishing things right now, but we are still in the infancy of trans fiction

as a genre. Yes, exactly, like it's it's it's like if you think about it at an on timeline of like you know, a growing up like sis, fiction has had jillions of years to write and make work, and so we've kind of seen everything there is to see from CIS stories, and so trans literature like obviously trans literature hasn't existed also since the Dawn time, but are trans trans cultural production produced to a level of like Summer ram com book is like in its infancy, and

also trans people telling our own stories and centering transnists in them is still pretty you know, uh, pretty new and radical in certain ways, and I hope people respond to it. And I know you said this book is for trans people, but I would also say this book is for people who love books that are funny. It's a really funny book. So if you're a lover of comedy, you will love this book. I would say, if you love a rom com, you love this book. If you need a bet read, you love this book or a

vacation read. I think this book is really delicious because it has like chapter like a lot of the chapters are like three or four pages long, and I think think that book Cadence a kind of Casey mc question, I mean doesn't belong to them, but like a kind of like there's a beach read cadence of short, digestible chapters that's like really really nice. It does. I've had a lot of people say to me in a very positive way that they read it in one sitting, like

they really couldn't put it down. And it does move very quickly. It's like it's a short novel. It's two hundred and eighty eight pages, but there's a lot packed in there. The pros is very dense, as I discovered when I did my first reading of it. It was like dense. How Like it's just so like Joe Keavy is so introspective, jokes per minute are really on. Julia's internal monologue is always running at like a twelve out of ten. Yeah, which I love, though I mean like

sometimes that can be overbearing in here. I actually think that there's just there's a lot that it's it's you're you're you're playing it. You're I think you're overplaying a little bit. There's a lot of scenes, it's it's a lot of like it feels like a movie. It feels like you're reading a movie. A lot of the time, which is why I immediately wanted a fancast when I was when I finished, I want to end on rom coms like a thematic. We've we've I feel like we

haven't done a whole episode on rom coms. Have we Yeah, we have, we have, we have. I'm pretty sure I can't remember, but I think we have. What is the state of the rom com right now to you? In TV films, books, movie movies, but you see you alluded earlier,

you're like the rom comms little rotten right now. I mean they're getting materialists, they're getting made, but they are largely relegated to streaming, and they are kind of served up as almost like anciliary content and kind of scene as like lesser than when they used to be, like very much the tent poles of culture. It used to

be the blockbusters. Yes, And I do think it's because, you know, just like the way that media has changed and the kind the types of films that get made, you know, like the marvelification of media, These movies that are often very sexless, even when there are you know, when there is romance in them. Romance is important. Also, family stories are important, and stories about coming to terms with their identity are important, and those things are are

valuable and meaningful. And I would love to see, you know, a romantic comedy resurgence in which we're not just getting you know, even though this is kind of like a remix in some ways of a pre existing romantic comedy, like it is a holy it is an original story, and I would love to see more original romantic comedies that are that are risky. Yeah, and there are what

what else? Like? Yeah? More like I also like prefer romantic comedies that have primary and secondary characters that are fucking weird, Like I think we don't get a lot of that. I think a lot of rom coms in the canon are about normies. Did that make sense? Well, that's why. That's why my best Friend's wedding was so

transgressive was because Julia Roberts was a bad person. Bad person I didn't I totally didn't even understand that when I so when my first we talked about this in the episode about my best Friend's wedding way back when. But when I first watched my best friend's wedding, I was kind of like, I mean, I kind of like thought that a lot of the things she was doing.

I was like, that's fine, like she's she's being awful, but like, actually I would I would do that too, sure, whatever, But I also remember watching it and being like I didn't understand I really didn't understand her motivations and I didn't understand why the character was the way she was.

And I retroactively am like thinking about my reaction to the first being of that film as something that was claud How would it buy a canon of rom coms that were very normy, a canon of rom comms that were all kind of these perfect protagonists, these perfect Julia Roberts esque protagonists, And here was Julie Roberts actually being extremely imperfect. And I didn't get that kind of misogynist

of me, honestly. Okay, anything else you want to say about the state of the rom com I think this is like a juicy end note because I feel like I want to see more original stories. Yes, I want to see more transrom coms. Yes, I want to say I would rom coms to be hornier, hornier, thank you, Oh my god, this book is so horny, you guys. The sex scenes are one and there are multiple. It's crazy to me. My grandparents have read sex scenes that

I wrote. You also you well, sorry, I don't be mad at me for saying this, but you had sex scenes that had that were edited, that were yeah, tinkered with, tinkered with a little bit. But I think but I think there were Ultimately, ultimately it was in service because this book is not it's not like a spicy kind of mutt. It's not smut. It's not my sweet Audrina, it's it's it' that'll be. It's the horny. It's horny and sexy. But it's not smutty. No, it's not smuddy.

There's a there's there's a lot of yearning in it. There's ellipse, there's ellipses, and there's there's But I also think it's pretty frank about sex. Yes it is. It doesn't shy away from it at all, which I love. And it has sex humor that's like very good and funny. Okay, I think this concludes our terry gross as interview. I I want to again say, if you are in New York City on Center or in the Tristate area or in the Tristate area, honestly, you should drive up for

it because it will be worth it. There might even be an after party if things come to fruition the way we want to. But come see Rose in conversation with heron Walker on September two third. We need you to buy a ticket. If you don't buy a ticket, you're not a virgin, period. I'm saying that right here now, even if you're not in New York, you should just

buy a ticket, just to do it. Like love that mentality, no, literally, like we need you to get into swifty mode, sorry to say it's swifty mode, and just like get into

the subreddits. And we need people buying books and buying tickets to Rose Damie's book event with heron Walker on set for twenty third at the Strand in New York City, as well as the Los Angeles event on October twelfth, twelfth, twelfth, Yeah, twelfth, No eighth eighth, eighth, eighth, October eighth at Annabel's Book Club, and the Baltimore event at Grady Reid's on October second, and the Boca Ratone event on October eighteenth at Barnes

and Noble. And also I'm doing a second New York event in Brooklyn at Lofty Pigeon with Bobby Finger right oh, my God be okay, And all the links for all of these events are again in the description of this podcast episode. Just click on over to find them, or you can go to Rose Damu's instagram Rose DomU and check her link tree and her bio and they're all there. Thank you so much for doing this with me. This was,

I mean, it's my pleasure. It was. It's I mean, you I insisted, just f why I roasted, don't ask me to do this. I was like, we need to do this because, uh, we just we want to we want to set the record straight on your terms. Yes, okay. And the controversy wait, it has there been controversy? No, No, no, there's been. I mean you've had like you had like one negative book Goodreads review or something like that like months ago. For for the most part, people seem to

really enjoy it. And if they don't, it's kind of in the ways that I wanted them to not enjoy it. Yeah. Actually, did you send a copy the JK rolling yet? Yeah? I had. I had it sent. And it's sort of a drone strike. There's kind of like like a T shirt cannon but for books, and it's being shot into her castle windows. Uh, that'd be a really great use of marketing. Someone did. Someone did. When I posted about this on TikTok recently, someone said, don't en jk Rowling

like this. I mean coming. I'm coming for her gig. She coming for his gig, his Jake Hay Rowling. Anyways, that is Best Woman by Rose Dom. You go get your copy, go buy your tickets. I am fran Torado and this is fresh air. This is stank air, stank air with love you