All Roles Will Be Played By Lea DeLaria

the best movies ever made. That's true. It's it's true that it's I would even say it's like one of the greatest cultural contributions ever made. Yeah, certainly for me. And we will get into my origin story with Rocky Horror France origin story and talk about what it meant to us, why it's so good, why it may or may not be viable to revisit um through a contemporary lens, because this is like a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture today's takes. I'm rost damn you,

and I'm fran Toronto. Touch a touch A touch a touch me. I want to be dudey she really got that falsetto. And by that falsetto, I mean, her voice is so thin that that's all she gets pretty much. Must I want to set the scene for you. I want to take you back in time. It is okay, I'm eleven years old. Okay, I have just gotten my braces on and I am in unimaginable pain. For some reason, getting them on has just hit me harder than it hits a lot of people. And I like can't get

out of bed. She's down back because I am in so much pain. God. I tell my mom, Mom, I need something to watch, and she's going to Costco with my X step dad and she says, okay, I'm going to bring you home. Some new VHS is bring And when she comes home later, she says, you know, I saw this and I thought you would like it. And you know what she brought me? What did she bring your rose? She brought me a VHS copy of The

Rocky Horror Picture Show. And over that weekend of torment, with my teeth adjusting to being braced, I watched The Rocky Horror Picture Show. I'm going to say upwards of ten times, just over and over and over again. And honestly, that anecdote perfectly distills the fact that the movie didn't ands you to watch it again, like it is a It is a film with like cathartic slapstick, really like satisfying moments that I don't know, make you feel seen

as an outsider in any degree. It has musical numbers, It has an absolutely bizarre ending that like totally discards the movie in general, Like everything about it is rewatchable. And I know, I say a lot on this podcast, we talk a lot about think, we talk a lot about formative pop culture and formative media. I would say this is one of the things that really helped me construct my own idea of myself and my taste and um, my point of view and um, this movie is very

important to me. It's one that I have revisited time and time again. I threw a rocky horror picture show rave once when I was throwing parties. Um. And you know, this is obviously not a singular experience. This is a

movie that is important to so many people. I mean many generations, like so many different generations of this, especially queer people, because this movie is so queer your t M. And also, I would say the definition of a cult classic, like the cult classic, when did you first see it, and I think you were telling me you've only ever seen it once. I think so, So here's the just

here's the discrims. I was trying to do some timelining and like look on my Facebook to see if I could not on your Facebook, because I was trying to figure, um what I was when I saw this. Um but the the Rocky Horror first came to me through Perks of Being a Wallflower, which was a book that like broke my whole world open. It was among the first cultural objects to secularize my taste and for me to see that the world of sin was the world for me, and um like a lot of pop culture um it,

you know, really showcases rocky horror. Like Rocky Horror is a big part of that story, and so my curiosity led me to the movie and like all the kind of things that come with it, because there's a lot that comes with it, right. It started as a stage

play in London. It was released in seventy and then was a critical flop, but it immediately pretty quickly, rather not immediately, but pretty quickly, found a cult following that would um yes, as a midnight movie that would then turn it into like a national phenomenon where it screened across theaters any time a year, especially on Halloween something. It was. Everything was screened. It was screened weekly. I've

been to see the most most, I think regularly. It was screened at what used to be Chelsea Cinemas UM in Chelsea, I think the movie theater that's now the Cinema Mark, and they used to play it every Friday night at midnight Friday night or Saturday night. UM, and I went a couple of times UM in college. UM midnight screenings are. The hallmark of them is that they have a cast who perform the musical UM in front of the screen as it's going on. And then there's

also a long history of audience participation. There are you know, callouts that are are now like uh, you know part of legend that you know, the there are things that

the fans know to say while the movie is happening. Okay, So for any virgins out there, and if you haven't seen the Rocky Horror Picture Show, I don't know how you found this podcast, but if you haven't seen it, Rocky Horror Picture Show was created written by Richard O'Brien, who some of you may know from things like He Was the Villain and ever After, which we talked about recently. It's about a young couple who are very square umm yes um Brad and Janet played by Susan Surrandon Barry Bostwick.

They get engaged at the beginning of the film and uh decided to go tell their old teacher that they're engaged because they want to share the happy news with him. A storm happens and they wind up at this spooky castle where a party is going on, presided over by Frankenfurd Dr frankenford Or, who is a trans sexual transvestite from Transylvania, and it turns out he is actually an alien um. He is a reanimating a bunch of corpses

into the perfect man. Everyone's fucking and sucking. There's lots of musical numbers, and meat Loaf is there and I forgot that beat is there. It is fun for the whole family, except well America would not deem it quote unquote family friendly but for our family, for my chosen family, friendly for my Chosen Family by Rina sa Yama I Chosen Family. So I will say this movie when I first watched it really captured my imagination. I was a little queer kid who didn't know they were queer or like,

didn't really understand what form their queerness was taking. I only knew that I was weird, and that is what I latched onto in this movie was the ecstasy of being a fucking freak, which is I think what this movie is at its core about. It's also really referential of B horror movies that are they're all referenced in the opening theme song Science Fiction Double Feature. Um, I didn't get any of that when I was a kid. I didn't get any of the Red for instance. I

didn't really understand the legacy of this movie. I just understood that it was about being a freak, and I wanted to be that kind of freak. Yeah, it is exactly that. And I think that like Bred and Janet are essentially corrupted right by Frankenfurter and his like exactly it's about liberation but also corruption, and they're kind of reticence or fear around this kind of transvestite. Is it supposed to be like a convention almost like this party

that's happening at the castle or whatever. Yeah, there, he's he's brought all of his you know, Transylvanian Contemporaries over to see transsexual Comma Pennsylvania to see you know this being he's created, and like watch his mastery of science right and Tim Curry is the moment like this was his breakout role. Shockingly, like he was, um the originator of I guess the stage play, and he would go on to do so many fucking weird ass roles somebody.

He's been in literally every sector of culture, and especially if like camp t M is present, because Tim Curry knows how to do a kind of like straightforward, like kind of performance of camp. But like, but also the thing that I think sets Rocky Horror apart from a lot of movies that we would compare it to is how sexy it is. Everyone in this movie is the

hottest they have ever been. Yeah, actually this movie is it definitely the I think some of the scenes that like really awakened my adolescent sexuality, um are when Frankenfurter goes to visit both Brad and Janet in their rooms and they both fucking I remember being scanned, alt, I remember being aroused bisexual representation essentially or pan sexual or

who knows he's I mean it's funny. I think that this movie is kind of lauded as something like deeply By, but I personally think it's like more queer pan, not that that really matters, but like and also, my god, the Byes are going to be so mad at me for saying that. Honestly, Like I'm a raising By. I think it's a very By movie. Just it is a very By movie. As a bisexual, I claim that it's so hot and you watch Brad and Janet come into

their sexuality. I mean there's the whole song Touched Me where Susan Surrandon is just like, oh, I want to fuck, And it's funny because like her voice is like barely. They're like, but she's still so good. And I think Susan Surrandon was like terrified of singing in public, like as an actress, and this was like really challenging for her, but like you can't tell it all, Like she's so good. She's this movie, I think more than any movie ever

made Fox. It really does. And I think that sexual irreverence that you're alluding to is something that's really missing from a lot of their movies that are inspired by it or um or like reference it, like, you know, Beetle Juice is very horny, but I was just like, when I was watching, I was like, oh, Beetle Juice borrowed a lot from Rocky Horror, you know what I mean? Like there are tropes that exist from Rocky Horror that I think are now in a lot of future kind

of horror camp classics, um. But at the same time, Rocky Horror was in and of itself trying to uh put a spin on existing cliches. It's like it also regard it also is trying to be legitimately, uh a horror sci fi movie. Like there are parts of it that I actually think are kind of scary, and you know, I think it straddles the line between knowing camp and accidental camp, and that it is reveling in its own campus.

But it also is trying to be what it's saying it is, which is, you know, a sci fi film, a sci fi musical, um, and all of those elements just work so well together in a way that I don't think anything else since except maybe something like Okay, I would say the sort of sexless version of Rocky Horror is um Little Shop of Horrors. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've never seen it, but I know, yeah, it's you know, Little Shop is romantic where Rocky horror Fox exactly literally Fox.

And I also think that, um, the raw sexual energy in it to me is so radical because of like our very first reactions to it, Like there's something like holy scandalizing and all at the same time arousing when you watch it, no matter what gender or orientation you are. And I think that it's because this movie has like now mainstream appeal because of its cult classic like Allure. You will see sisht people talk about this movie and talk about loving it or talking about how it made

them question their sexuality or things like that. And like, well, just frankenfurn In and of himself. The fact that this fem presenting man, transvestite, whatever, this person, this gender deviant who's anything and everything can be the sex symbol that this film revolves around, and a sex symbol that is endured for generations to both queer and hat people alike,

is so powerful. Yeah, And like in this in seventy five, we did not have this conversation about like mad the appeal of mainstream like gender fluidity, right, I mean, we were kind of starting to have it with David Bowie, and I don't think this movie could exist without David Bowie, which I when we were reading about this film, I found out that the makeup artist Pierre LaRouche, who did the makeup for Rocky Horror, was the makeup artist who

did the iconic light people on bowie S face period. Amazing. I know this is like cliche to say, but it really was ahead of its time in so many different ahead of its time, but also is very much of its time. Yeah, I think that that really. I want to know why you think that. I think what I when I was watching it, like the word TRANSVESTI I think is like very of this time, you know what I mean. The idea of transnis or how people were talking about fluidity I think is encapsulated really well in

this in this movie. I think it's of it. I think it's of its time for a couple of different reasons. Ends One is the time period at seven. Um, we know that culture kind of works in these twenty cycles, so the seventies looking back at the fifties like that makes a lot of sense. Um, it's the same kind of thing you see with Greece. Greece is also the seventies looking back at the fifties from obviously a different point of view, which the guy that plays Brad originated

the lead in Greece. Oh, Barry Boss right, that's cool. I used to I had such a crush on him and his little tidy whities. Um. I also think it's very of its time for all the reasons we've said it's you know, it was the first time where people like Bowie, these like gender less icons were really at the forefront of pop culture. But not even just Bowie. I think this was the era where rock and roll was really progressive in a way that it hadn't been before.

This was the era of you know, like seventies, not glam rock. That's yeah, this is the era of seventies glam rocks and so and Frankenfurd is a villain who is a rock star. And that's why I think it's I think about so specifically of its time. I mean the way that he enters the movie, the way he enters the movie is like he's a rock, He's like Jagger. Yeah, he's like Jagger, Yeah, and he's got que Christina. Um yeah, I um it's funny because I I um, I never

I never made that connection. That's so so um, I'm so glad you said that. I feel like there is a world where like um, and that's why, like me, that's why meat Loaf is in the movie. You know, it's it's this is a rock this is a rock musical. This music musicals of the time. You know, this was the era of like Rogers and Hammerstein, and you know it's like like all the kind of classic musicals and I guess hair we had hair, but apparently this was

like very much an outlier for musicals. Apparently it also wasn't written like that. Um immediately that like, when they wrote the movie version, they had caught a lot of the songs, but then the script they wrote was only like forty minutes long, and so they were like, we need more like music and dance sequences. And the songs are so good. I mean, the time warp is obviously iconic, and it wasn't in the first cut, the first draft science fiction double feature. Those lips, um, that mouth that

belongs to the actress who plays Magenta. Um, you know, meat Loaf's number is great. I thought met Low. I think I still think meat Loaf is really hot in this movie. Um, I don't even remember. I watched it so long ago. I don't even remember his presence in the film. I only reremembered it from researching it. But yeah, I guess Sweet transvest I is a banger. I love Planet Shmanett Janet, which is the song that happens as Frankenfurter is chasing Janet through the house. Um, touch a touch,

A touch me, don't dream it be it. I think it is like an aphorism that will transcend century, wild and untamed thing. I mean, it's just it's so good. Your O'Brien is a genius. There also there so there was a sequel to Rocky Horror called Shock Treatment that was not as when it came out. It just like it never achieved the kind of cult status moment I I it wasn't. It was in theater. There were no DVDs then, um, and it has had um, you know, different theatrical runs. I saw it on Broadway, UM when

I was a teenager. It was at Circle in the Square, and my grandparents when I was a kid, used to bring my brother and I into the city and would take us two shows. That's how I saw Phantom of the opera and you get your gun, and you know, they wanted to take us to a show, and I insisted on Rocky Horror, and like they were very much like no, and I was like, I will cry and scream until you get us tickets to see the show. That sounds familiar. Um, I'm learning a lot about how

I really have been the same woman. Let's let's be clear. I've learned nothing. These are things that I've known. But but I actually okay, maybe a tangent um, what did you What did you think of? Uh? As we're talking about things that reference or are in conversation with Rocky Horror, did you like the Person Being wall Flower movie? Yeah? I do you did? I feel like it was one of those rare, like actually good like book at it.

It's a really good book adaptation. I think a lot of that is because of how involved um the writer that he directed it, right, I mean no Ezra Miller. No, I mean no Asur Miller. But Ezra Miller is really good in the movie. I think it's actually maybe Ezra Miller's best role. Although I haven't seen him. We need to talk about I haven't seen it either. Do people like that? Yeah? I think people like it. Yeah, okay,

we should see that. I don't. I don't know if we're not doing Sorry, I didn't mean in some ways there is some overlap with frankenfurther well okay, Um, Honestly, Ezra would be great as bring Inferter, but would not be my pick for I don't support a reboot in any way, shape or form. Okay. See, I actually um disagree. And I think that this is one of those rare cultural objects that would have a fluency in the modern day.

And I think the story itself would benefit from a more contemporary idea of gender deviance without being too emphas I actually completely disagree, and and I think that so much of what makes this movie special is that it's not bothered by any of that, and that's why it was so transgressive at the time and why it remains transgressive.

And it's not super concerned about defining things. And I think any reboot of this would be so preoccupied with defining these characters unless I wrote it, sure, um, I and I would write it like I would love. I just I think every time we have tried as a culture to update or revisit Rocky Horror, it has always sucked. Well who woa wha, Well, let's not. I mean, I think just reboots in general, like usually are in the hands of people that don't know any trans people and

they're trying to have conversations about transniss. And I think that you know, Laverne Cox playing Frank Inverter in a live edition of whatever that nobody saw is like I feel like it like barely counts. And also like it's so, how did you feel about Like when I heard the announcement of like Laverne being in this, I was like, she's gonna be awesome, like dancer, you know, Triple Threat can really do a role like that. But I was like,

there's no way that was her idea. You know, I didn't think any of those things, and I actually thought it was It showed very much And this is funny considering that we were just talking about Silence of the Lambs. It shows very much the way that the cists had people making those decisions think about the spectrum of transmiss and that they don't think about it and they think that a black woman is the same thing as a

transvestite who uses he him pronounce um. All that being said, I really really really really really really really don't think that Rocky Horror can be rebooted or should be rebooted, unless, of course I do it. Okay, so um in fran Toronto's Rocky Horror reboot coming to Amazon Prime. Let's say not Amazon, Brian Bles, Okay, I want to hear who you Okay, let's I'm gonna I think it's giving Peacock.

I think Peacock would know it is I. I you know, I think that honestly, um uh for Franken Further, let's work. Let's work our way up there. We got we gotta start. Let's that's the hardest role, Okay, Brad and Janet. Brad and Janet um. One of the first kind of like normal people I was thinking of was who's the like blonde from Riverdale who was in Hustlers who was so good? Lily Lily Lily Reinhart would be a good Janet. But I'm also gonna introduce the concept to you what if

they're not assists head couple? What if they're a gay mail couple. Because that's because we have to think about how we're not only updating the cast, we're updating what the movie is trying to say and poke at So I think in this updated version they are a cis gay. Yeah, okay, So it's Patrick Harris and David Burton. Now they're too old. Um, you still have to be kind of young. It is um Um Michael Jury. No, still Andrew Reynolds and still old.

We gotta think we gotta twenty something gay. Andrew Reynolds is thirties, like late thirties. Yeah, Andrew Reynolds is like old like and Andrew Reynolds doesn't need to be in anything. Okay, Well, if they're assists gay, Oh it's Bowen. I actually think Bowen would be well yeah, okay, okay, I think Bone would be good as a riff raff. Um No, let me wait, I I really want to find the right game. Definitely belongs in the rebuild. Okay, wait, um what's his name? Um?

Who was in Pokemon? Oh we didn't watch um who was in Detective Pikachu? Not Um Logan Lerman? No, Justice Smith Okay, Justice Smith as bradd the kind of stick in the mud. And then Janet's kind of liberated. And then Janet is Frankie Grande. It's actually a throttle. It's a gay Frankie Grande and then I'm the third in No, you can't be in the movie, you're the writer director. I mean, we'll see, we'll we'll get there. Um, I think honestly immediately for Rocky, I was thinking like Lee

Pace or maybe little not too old Little Nas. Little Nas is really good. Pace would also, like Rocky, doesn't have to be young Lee Pace for me could be Eddie. He could be the meat loaf character. Oh yeah, I forgot, But I also think that should be a woman. Well what about also think that should be like like, um fucking what's her name? From Orange is the New Black? Uh? I love Leodelarias so much, I think, and the narrator

um is played by Jean Smart. Oh perfect, that's perfect, Okay, okay, Um Magenta, I feel like it has to be someone who can really do weird, an iconic redhead. Oh, Halle Bailey, what's the Oh it's caper Land. It would be she needs more like paper Land and John Early are Magenta and riff raff. Well, not to go back, but I think that John and Kate would actually be an amazing braton Janet and John plays Janet. Yeah, but I think they make so much more sense as Magenta and riff Raff.

Yeah yeah, yeah, they just don't have enough lines. But they are perfect. But they do the time warp. They are they and they actually are in most of the movie. They are they are there. Okay, okay, I love that. Um Columbia, what was that Columbia? Oh, who's Columbia? I don't remember the character. She's the top dancing one who's in love with Eddie by Leahia. All the roles will be played by Leo Dlaria and all Delira and all Leo Dlaria reboot of Rocky Hormon. Jenda is actually in

the works with Loretta Ls incorporated. Like Magenda, let's get let's get a transactress in there. I think Magenta played by a trans dance sir someone, Um, maybe Jesse James Keetle from the Queer Folk reboot. She's really good. She's she's she's kind of she's a little she's kind of a more serious. Oh no, Patty Harrison is Columbia. Oh my god, bad dance. She she figured out she would do a kind of Pearl esque tap tap moment. You know, Um, that's what I see for her. Okay, well, I don't

remember any of the other character. And then Frankenfurter it's kind of the only one. Oh, and we also have to do Dr Scott. The only thing I could well, Doctor Scott remind me of that character us the wheelchair. Oh, he's in a wheelchair. So could it be um Alison Stoker, Alie Stoker? Yeah, I love that she would be great or um Yeah, no, Alie Stoker would be good. And she's already does you know Broadway? Okay, so now we

just have to cast Frankenfurter. Um Ezra Miller. Know, the only thing I could think of was Alan Cumming, but I think that's way too obvious. Yeah, and like also too old. I think we need someone with you. We need I think you need to think. This is what's the problem with casting Laverne Cox. I do love. You need to think rock star, rock star. And it can't be Harry Styles. And it can't be Billy Porter. Billy Porter is coming nowhere near this movie. He's not even

invited to the premier No, no, um, sorry Billy. Honestly, Mary Styles. There's also actually you know what, maybe we maybe maybe Little Nas should be Frankenfurter and we find another bimbo to play rocky because I think Little Nas is a rock star and he's great at being feminine. He is an amazing, amazing comedic sensibility. He can dance and sang. It's just that his voice to me, doesn't lend itself to the octaves of the song. That but

maybe we we you know, take them down a little bit. Great. Yeah, Little Sex can be Frankenfurter, sure, I can't think of any of the other thing is that, like franken Furter is like an irreplaceable, magnanimous, like singular character, and Little Nas is also a kind of once in a lifetime actor person, you know what I mean. I mean he's not an actor, not actor, not an actor, but he would he's but he can but he you know, did that like little Morey thing. Yeah, the more things. He

was brilliant. His music video is so good, his m his like video game partnership that he's doing. I just think still with Little nos X, we're still veering a little into ABC Family Live musical territory because he's so mainstream. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. But I do think it'd be good, but we can't. It will not be a live musical and it will not be on the AES. Okay, so now who's going to be Rocky since we've recast some hot bimbo, it could just be Timothy Slamy, Okay,

it could just Timmy. Timmy would sure No, Timmy would want to be Frankenfurter, which and he can't with that backless pant suit cannot be with this lu and outfit for Venice Is and Taylor Loft fit Um. This has been another special Halloween bonus f um. We will be doing spooky topics this entire month, but you can continue to send us suggestions if you want through Instagram, d m s or wherever you find us. You can leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or rating on Spotify.

It helps us so much. I'm your co host Fran Toronto and you can find me at Friends, squitch Go wherever you want on social and I'm rosdom You you can find me at Rose Dominue wherever you want, and come back this Thursday because we'll be back with another regular episode, news and main topic. You can subscribe to like a virgiin anywhere you listen. And this is an I Heart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Just Crane Chitch and

Nikki Etour until next week, See you later. Virgions by t