Today, we are lighting up project management as always. The goal on this show is to shine a light on people, strategy systems, and ideas that will help you succeed in real estate investing. So in our past interviews, I have noticed that my guests here a common problem, contractors in your real estate investing journey, you could experience contractors, possibly not showing up on time, bad quality and craftsmanship and other issues that can cause you to lose money and put you behind schedule.
And once you find a good contractor, they're hard to keep. Well, my guest today is here to help by providing a solution to this problem. Project management, Monique Williams, I call her Mo for short is a project manager in Atlanta, Georgia. She oversees all contract work from the demo crews, the plumbing, drywall, electrical, and all the others.
During a rehab project, she's here today to walk us through how to work with a project manager before you even purchase a property, she shares how to work with a contractor. When you have a hard money loan, the stages of a rehab when you're flipping a property and you will also learn the role you as the investor should play during a rehab. And at the end of the show, she leaves a resource for the listeners. This is definitely a show for the newbie investors. Let's go Mo .
Welcome to lighting up real estate. How are you?
Thank you, Candle all as well. How are you? Thank you for having me.
Oh, you're welcome. Oh, no, thank you for being on the show. I'm doing pretty good. It's a beautiful day. I can't complain. I'm safe. Indoors. Good blessings. It is. It is. So I invited you to be on the show because you are a project manager, which I feel is the solution to many of real estate investors problems. Can you share with us one, what is the role of a project manager?
So the role of a project manager is very similar to that of a general contractor. We are basically overseeing the entire build out of the renovation or build out. So we do take care of hiring the subcontractors and making sure that the work is being completed within the timeline within the budget and managing the entire process. So we are the point of contact between the job itself and the actual investor
I got to rehab. And the first one was a complete mess because I was trying to take on this role of a so-called project manager. And, but I also had a full time job, which I think would be a great opportunity for you to come in and fill this role. And I'm looking at a property. How do I know I need a project manager instead of me doing it myself?
I definitely advise everyone once you're even interested in a property as you're going through the process of going under contract, reach out to a project manager or a general contractor, because the things that you see when you're going in actually looking at the property, you may go in and say, Oh, you know what I can get in and out of this one, but you definitely want to get someone that does have expertise in that area to walk the property with you a nd whatever ideas that you may have, you
know, be able to speak around those ideas, confirm those ideas. And then of course, let you know how that can work, what the budget will look like. You know, what it'll take to get that done and within what timeframe. So now as you're analyzing your deal to make sure that this is a good investment opportunity for you, you've pretty much dotted your I's and cross your T's to prepare and plan as much as you can prior to.
So I guess one of the benefits with a project manager is one, the biggest thing I don't have to personally deal with contractors. That's what you're going to be doing. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. So let's go from there. So let's say I love this idea and I want to go forward with a project manager and it's you , so I'll call you when I'm looking at a property saying, Hey, Moe , come meet me at this property and let me know what you think, or do you give me a scope of work as well?
How does that work when we needed that property? So depending on what stage you are within your contracting phase. So to say, say if it's a property that you're considering submitting an offer for a, we will meet at the property course, whatever ideas that you have or whatever your vision is for that project, I'll notate everything, all of the details.
Initially, I'll give you an estimate because safe , you decide to go forward on another project, or if you just have another opportunity , um , you know , actually providing a full scope of work. Um, I prefer not to do it at this date, but I can give you an estimate based on previous projects that we've completed and, you know, give you an idea of where you need to be.
And of course it is going to be on the higher end to make sure that when you do reach out to your lender, if you're using hard money where you have your own funds or private funds , uh , just making sure that that budget will work within your fingers. Okay. So let's go all the way back to the beginning. How did you get started as a project manager? So back in 2015, I peaked an interest in real estate investments . So I started learning the business at the wholesale level.
So I started wholesaling properties. I was still working at the time, the latter part of 2016. I went full time in the business after I got wholesaling under my belt, which I highly recommend whether you wholesale or not at least get a great understanding of the wholesaling process. Um , investors are purchasing properties most of the time off market. So you definitely do want to have a understanding of how that process actually works.
But long story short, when I first started the business construction renovations, that was my ultimate end goal. So after I got wholesaling up under my belt, I was introduced to Westside community builders. And that was about two years ago. Okay . So from there I was able to come on board and become an assistant project manager. And that's how I started learning the business. From there.
I had a conversation about where I presented the idea to actually start project managing, you know, like, let's go out here. Like I know people that need properties renovated. And you know, the biggest thing that I noticed is that the quality of a lot of these renovations is not up to my standards.
So to say, so if I were on the market for a home, and I think that's one thing that people have to think about, you know, if you were shopping for a home, what are you looking for as far as quality and product? So that was one of the things that I learned was how to produce quality project . I've gotten that experience under my belt for two years now. I just haven't looked back. So we're walking the property out , God , you've given me the scope of work is your price.
Cause of course you're not doing this for free. Is it already included in with that estimate that you give? Yes. So the bottom line includes materials, labor and project management fees. Nice. So that means that I don't have to get up and go to home Depot every morning with you guys to go , Nope, all you have to do candle is just stay on top of making sure the funds are available when needed so that the process does pretty much flow to your liking.
And then at the same time thing in tune with the project, you know, so I'm very, very, very keen on communication. So I feel like you shouldn't have to call me and say, Hey, Mo , what's going on? You know, as we're completing various phases, you know, I find it important to provide a level of service because this is a customer service based industry, right ?
As a project manager or general contractor and a , you know, you want your clients to feel secure and comfortable and trust what you're doing and how you're doing it. So I'm very big on communicating, letting you know where we are throughout the process. So when you mentioned funds, how much money should I have? Cause I know when you rehab a property, you already have to have so much money up front before the hard money even gives you a draw. That's the great point money.
That is a, that's a great point. So let me kind of backtrack on that a little bit. So a lot of people from what I've experienced, they get their credit score up or, you know, they make sure they are where they need to be as far as just the criteria to qualify for a hard money loan. So you may have X number of dollars in the bank so forth, and your hard money loan will cover the purchase price of the house as well as the renovation budget.
So once that's been approved, of course, you do have to come to closing as an investor with whatever percentage of the loan that your lender is going to cover. You're responsible for what's remaining. Okay. One, the big misconceptions with hard money is they think after they close that the project can go ahead and get started and that the lender just takes care of the renovation. What happens?
You have to have revolving capital that you will not need to excess throughout the course of your renovation. You need to have those funds available, whether it's physical cash money, you can pull off off of a credit card, but you do need to be able to issue funds to your project manager. So I would say 20 to 20 to 25% of the actual renovation budget. So let's just use a hundred thousand dollars, just easy number.
So if your innovation is going to be a hundred thousand dollars, if you can set aside 20 to 25,000, that'll easily get you through your renovation. And let's just say 25,000, right? Your budget is a hundred thousand dollars, 25,000. That's going to be for draw . So to say, so what a draw is that's when your inspector or the inspector for the lender comes out to a spirit that what you said has been completed as far as the work actually has been completed.
And then they released the funds based on the amounts that are within the budget. So every fucking down line item by line item. So whatever that 20 to 25,000 is said to include a they're going to come out and inspect it and then release the funds. So you're basically getting reimbursed throughout the course of the project, right?
So I guess that's when you would have to definitely work with me, I'm saying I would have to work or an investor would have to work with you far as communication with you as a project manager, because it's our responsibility. And that's all we really have to do is , is make sure that we are requesting that inspection to get the draw. Because if we don't get the draw, pretty much, you guys don't get paid or this is why the capital is important so that you guys think it's willing to get paid.
And let me just give you an example. So for most renovations, which are going to start out with is going to be your plans. Everything that you spent on your project is going to be included in the scope of work, because you do want to get reimbursed for all of these expenses, okay? Your architectural drawings, which you have to have , uh , your permits. So whatever the cost of the permits is from the city of Atlanta or wherever you're renovating, I'm sorry. Cause I know people are all over.
So here in Atlanta, I'm just going to refer to the city of Atlanta. Of course you have to get utilities switched over into your name, water, you know, the electrical, all that good stuff. So you want to take all those costs into consideration. So all of that is included. Okay. But then once you actually start, we have to take care of demo in order to demo, we're going to need dumpsters.
So most of these houses that are a complete full gut renovation, I would estimate three dumpsters within that first base . Okay. After you demo, then you're going to start your framing. So if your demo crew finishes, they want to get paid upon completion. Now when complete, we have to of course, walk the property and make sure that they have completed everything before they do receive final payment. And then the next phase will be framing.
So what happens is some people will try to say, well, I'm just going to get all the work done. And then once I get the inspection and get my draw, then I'll pay my guys that works for your guys. That's fine. But for the most part, the demo crew is not going to want to wait for you to go through the entire framing process to get their money, right?
So, you know , you have to be strategic in how you're setting up your payouts and communicating with your subcontractors as well to know what does and what does not work for them that you can plan accordingly with your team.
Wow. That makes so much sense. So working with subcontractors about how many subcontractors are you going to be working with ?
A lot, for every piece of the renovation or every part of the renovation, you do want to have multiple sources because , uh , these guys they're, they're doing multiple jobs, you know, so they're getting hired to renovate or to do electrical work for this investor or electrical work for that one.
So, you know, you definitely want to make sure that you're planning ahead communicating with those subcontractors , uh , based on your timeline and your schedule so that you can say, Hey, we're demoing right now. We're planning. The frame. Framing is planning on being, we're planning on being completed with framing by this date. So that then at least they can have an idea of when you're going to need them for their services.
It may be off, you know , some days, but you know, I just believe that if you communicate that in advance, then at least they already have you in the back of their mind. So you can tentatively plan. And of course, you know , have to adjust based on realistic dates after you get started.
Okay. So let's say I have my uncle, my Uncle Curtis is like my bomb painter, but I gotta have him on the rehab. Is it possible that I could bring him in with your crew? Or how is that working ? Do you have to bring in people?
Oh, that's fine. As long as, you know, Uncle Curtis's quality of work and you're fine with that, Uncle Curtis can do the job
and you're not responsible for uncle Curtis's work is what you're saying.
If y ou h ad a ll his quality of work and that's what you want, u m, you know, you're the client, my job is to produce what you want. Okay. So how does that work? That's a great point. You just mentioned about producing what we want. So how do we handle conflicts of like, we just stopped by one day and w e're not maybe liking that paint color. Does that change? Is that a contract order? Is that costing more money? How does that work and how do you manage that?
So once you get to your finishes, so now we're talking, say paint a hardware, which is like your door knobs, your cabinet pools , um , your light fixtures, you know, things like that. Some clients don't want to be hands on with that . And they trust that we'll pick the nice designs or the nice options within that budget. Others have what they want.
So, you know, for people that do provide, you know, what they want just depending on the client, their situation , um, you know, some clients will go ahead and order everything and have it at the property at the time that we need it . When we get to that phase , it comes to paint. Before we start painting you as the client, we'll go ahead and pick your paint colors.
Okay. Now, if you do want to suggest, or if you want our suggestions or, you know , ideas, you know, definitely we do have conversations with our clients design. You know, if you do it, some people have designers that they hired. So at that point, you know, that's when a designer should actually come in and be hands on with that side of the business. So I mean that side of the project.
So once you get to the finishes, it's all circumstantial based on who the client is, what their needs are and what they want. But to answer your question, if the paint goes on the walls and you don't like it, that's the pink color that you picked out and you want to change it. You have to understand that the painters are going to charge for that. So, you know, it's not unlimited requests, they're coming in to do a job. And if for whatever reason they do their job. Right.
But you want something changed . That would be a change order because that would be in addition to,
okay, so let's say we are rocking and rolling and we're ahead of schedule. Everything's looking great. And I'm now looking at another property. Are we able to go to another property together on the next one? And how , how do you handle multiple properties with a client time management?
If you plan ahead, you know, with us as project managers, I think at one time, the most that we've had emotion was maybe f or, w ow, I may have been at a beginning stage, you know, some may have been at the end, so I 'm may go to one property, first thing in the morning, you know, get the guys going and make sure everything is rocking and rolling. And then from there, g o o n t o the next project. And then also, you know, this, the importance of team as well.
So, u h, within the team, if we do have one person that needs to be at this s ite and another person needs to be at this s ite at the same time, u h, you know, we just have to make it happen, but it's all about planning, strategizing and having a game plan. But yeah, definitely if you're looking at something else, u h, there's definitely always time within the day to, u h, you know, go and start planning for your next one as well.
So that's a great point that you mentioned about the planning and the time management. So it was this the best way to stay on schedule because how do you handle, of course, this inevitable with this COVID-19 or rain delays or funding or an inspector being late with coming to do an inspection. So do you already have that planned out or you prepare your clients in advance for that? Or how do you work through that?
So when we, when we structure our timeline, we base it on the number of days that we know it should take to complete each phase of the project. Now, when it comes to, you know, whether all of the things that are out of our control, we can't do anything about this. So we do just have to adjust our timeline and communicate, you know, Hey, due to the weather. Now we're looking at this.
Um, you know, once you get through the framing in your roof is on your window and your exterior doors are installed. Rain won't stop. Because from that point, now everything that's being done for the most part is on the inside. Now, if you are having to say delay, maybe siding or some other exterior things that may be in motion , you just need to try to maximize the time that you're still knocking out what you can knock out on the inside and then just readjust accordingly.
So, you know, you just have to make adjustments to the timeline, but as far as COVID19 honestly, the only delay that we've had with that was the inspection process. You know, the city of Atlanta, once they shut down, it took about two weeks for them to really figure out exactly how they would be able to still do the inspection processes as well as even approving plans. So now they do have it to where everything is requested online.
If you're planning a new project, you can go online, upload your application, upload your plans, and still be able to get the process started. But yeah, there was about two weeks that we were just kind of in limbo because what they initially did was allow us to be able to use third party services that were approved through the city to do these inspections. And I believe because that's a limited number because of course, you know, these engineers have to be approved by the city.
You probably have multiple people. I mean, a lot of people contacting them to do these inspections. And at the same time, I didn't like that because this is going to be an additional cost. I mean, when you pay for your permits , all of your inspections are included. So now if you have to go and hire an engineer to come and do your final inspections, depending on what all final inspections are needed, you might looking at another thousand, 1500, maybe even $2,000.
And when you're at the end of your project, any other overages that you may have had throughout the project, that's definitely an unnecessary expense. So luckily the city of Atlanta did allow us to request inspections online. They were doing some video inspection . So some of the subcontractors would actually have to FaceTime them or send video or pictures. And they were able to see everything virtually and still pass you on the system. So, you know, that, that was a blessing.
So we , you know, things like that, we just have to understand, we have to get through what we can't control and just controlling what we can.
Okay. So that's a great, great answer that you said, cause that makes a lot of sense. So let's say I have a house ready and I need to get it off the market, get it off my books. I'm tired of making those payments to the hard money lenders. How do I, or how do we together to make sure that it's done on time or maybe earlier than needed? Well , cause I'm thinking, do I need to pay extra to you? So they'll work overtime or work on weekends after hours? Is that possible?
I honestly, I have not had that as a situation or as honestly I think anything, if you do want to speed up the project, the biggest thing is a lot of times it's funding. So if we are able to have additional funds in place to move a little faster, because you may get to a point like say after we get through the demolition and framing, and then we're waiting on an inspection, so your inspector has to come out.
So say for instance, you request the inspection with your lender and then they're going to schedule. So they need to tell you, okay, the inspector will be there in two to three days, right? Once the inspector comes, they have to submit the report to your lender. And then once the lender gets it, then they have to release funds. So that could take like say five days, depending some lenders are faster, I've had other lenders, they come, you request the inspection is the next day.
Literally the report is being submitted. The following day funds are being wired, right ? Knowing that is very important. So, you know, as people are shopping around for hard money workers find out what your draw process is going to be. Every drop is also a feat do have to pay for the fees that your lender is using for that third party inspector to come out. So I know typically here in Atlanta, that typically is about $150 per inspection give or take , depending on who your, your lenders .
Yeah. That's a great point. So let's say we did start off as wholesaling and we just see this property. We've seen enough HGTV been, been spent watching HGTV while we've been in doors and we're like, okay, we're going straight to this property. We're going to rehab it. What skills should we also be learning right now while we're on this couch watching HGTV,
man , let me, let me tell you this YouTube university is free. It is free accessible 24 seven and educate yourself. Do not just jump in because it looks attractive on TV because what they show on TV, you only see 10%. I will say it's about 90% of information that you don't get. You know , you see them start to demo something and say, Oh man, this is going to cost extra. You know?
So you see things like that, but even just, you know, managing your subcontractors , understanding where these off market deals come from. So for instance, I know there was a show that I used to watch on HGTV and they would break down what their purchase price was, what they sold it for and then what their profit was. Right. If you're buying the house, like where are you getting the house from? How are you analyzing the deal?
Like , how do you know if this is a big deal, a lot of information that's left out of these shows, but it's a lot of information that's available at our fingertips. So definitely if anybody is interested, go online and I'm pretty sure most markets have various meetup groups, meetup.com is a great website to go to.
You can look up based on the industry that you're interested in, or, you know, specifically the types of meetings that you're interested in going to, or attending and go like network, find a mentor that start this business without finding a mentor that has extensive experience in this business that has been project managing wholesaling, has a portfolio of buy and holds whatever it may be, find a mentor. So don't rush the process, do not rush it.
Yeah, that's a great point. So have you had a horror story when you may have had someone that thought they had all the experience and the skills and it ended up being a , uh , a mess on your hands?
Oh , when I first started, when I first, first started, there was a project that a couple of friends of mine and I, that we got into. And there was someone that we personally knew. That's a general contractor and basically trusted their experience and, you know , based on pictures of work jobs that we've seen them do and things like that. Uh , but we , we all had known this individual for a nice amount of time. So, you know, you, you pretty much feel like you can trust certain people.
And I mean, we got burned in the framing it's supposed to be using, you know , say two by tens, had two by six , completely failed the , uh , the framing inspection, you know? So when it comes to waste of materials and labor, this then paid out everything that's been paid up up to that point had to be completely redone, you know, but you know, to be honest with you guys, the best way to learn is by failing sometimes.
And you know, people are scared to fail because you think that it's a negative, but at the same time, and I think any book that you read or any successful person that tells their story and talks about their journey, they have so many failures before they even had a bit of success. Don't be scared to fail because all it is is just learning and that's it.
Is it possible if someone was hearing you and they said, okay, we've been researching Atlanta. We know about Atlanta being one of the hottest cities right now in the United States, fastest growing. Can they work with you as that middle person to buy a property and you rehab it with your team?
Absolutely. I'll be honest with you Candle. A lot of my experience with people that are interested in getting into the business, they're interested because of what they see on TV. But once they get in the field and starts seeing actually what the business consists of and what it entails day in and day out, they figure out that this may not be for them. You have to, you have to be a special type to be able to know these projects and you know, these deals and, you know, things like that.
So I'm very selective on who I do invest time in just , you know , this is what I do full time and based on where I am and I'm , you know, we're always growing, always learning time is valuable. Time is valuable. I do invest my time in people that are interested and the best way that I feel that we can move forward. If you are interested is to work together.
So we started a particular at a starting point and you know, I've given so much advice, tips, tools, nuggets, to anybody that expressed interest. When I first started, nobody ever charged me a dime, nobody ever even attempted to charge me a dime when I was still working on my off days, I was on the horn early. I remember not calling somebody as seven o'clock in the morning. I was like, Hey, are you in the field today? Where are you going to be there ? Like Mo uh , seven .
I was like, Oh, okay, well, what time will you be out there ? Like call me around like nine or 10. Wow. What am I doing calling, Hey, where are you ? You know , give me the address. So for me, I show that I was serious , uh , through my actions. So, you know, because I was blessed to learn what I've learned and gain the knowledge that I've gained. And I've had some of the best mentors that have genuinely dislike taking me under their wing.
And they just have my best interest in heart based on what they see within me. You know, as far as my passion and you know, things like that. So, you know, one thing too , guys, you have to be passionate about whatever it is that you're pursuing this, the difference between a hobby and a career. Exactly. Especially if you're a real estate investor, cause this, this role will make you want to just cuss . It'll have you on your knees praying to God. You loose friendships.
I mean, this is a, it is rewarding. It is no joke. You've got to remember your why. I m ean, t here h ave been a couple occasions where I was like, you know what, I'm going to have to go back to work. I'm not going to quit the business, but I think I should go back to work just for consistency or, you know, t hat's the, curity, u h, all of that.
But after the thought actually crossed my mind, I'm like, u h, no, and this is the thing, guys, once you do something one time, that's proof that you can do it. You have to continue to be a student, continue to grow, continue to do all of the same things that you did to land you your first deal or to complete your first flip, whatever you did to get there, continue those same things. But at the same time, continue to learn and grow. You will be fine. That's a great point.
So t he COVID-19, how are you adjusting to business? H as a business still been the same? Have you not mr. Footing or have you had to adjust? I m ean, cause you just, you mentioned t he inspections
with the city of Atlanta, but far as like getting clients or working with clients, is that still happening?
Actually on the , uh, on the renovation side , uh , outside of the inspection process, nothing has really changed the subcontractors they're working , uh , they're ready to work. And a lot of them actually are very busy right now because the city is, well, the city, they are open now, but you don't have them just, you know, out. So I mean, a lot of people are able to really just get in and just stay focused on getting as much done as possible.
Because at the end of the day, before you move on to certain phases, the work has to be inspected. So people are actually taking advantage of this time to get as much knocked out on these projects as possible.
Nice, nice. I've talked to a lot of people and I mean, a lot of us were seeing the bright side of the situation and seeing the opportunities because like, you're right, you could get a lot done because really no one is really watching or no one is really, you know, being so hard on the inspectors and the rehabbers and um , and we're getting properties
now I'll tell you what the challenging part is. And this is from the wholesaling side, as well as the acquisition side, when it comes to an investor, acquiring a property because of what the market was doing prior to COBIT, you know, the Atlanta market, certain packets just still happen. Uh , ARV is going up , uh , for those that don't know ARV after repair value. So that's what you're going to list it for after you complete the renovation.
So, you know, the RVs were steadily going up in some markets . So what's happening is that the sellers are people that are motivated to sell their properties. They still have that same mindset. So what's happening now is that if you look at a lot of the current listings, you see some price drops because people are not wanting to sit on the market for so many days and they're willing to drop the price and take less to move the property faster.
So if you are looking for a new property and just in my communication with some of the leads that I've been working on on the wholesale side sellers, they're , they're asking prices are farfetched . And what people have to understand is that you have to gauge what the market is currently doing. So if you have cops within 30 days use the 30 day cops , don't try to go and use 60 or 90 day cops just because those ERBs are higher because it's not going to help.
That's not going to help the investor if the market does not return to that. So it's no guarantee. So you always have to pay attention to what the market is currently doing,
right? That's a great point. You brought up a great point about how we are as sellers, you know, selling at a discounted price, which is an advantage for buyers and also to the property values have not changed that much. So some of these buyers are entering with equity now because of the sellers just saying, Hey, just get it off the books. We just want to be done with this because don't know what, you know, what's going to happen in the future. So it's just like, okay, get it gone.
So it's an opportunity to definitely buy.
That's definitely true. Honestly, like right now it is a buyer's market. It's a sellers market. So everybody within this business, everything is based on that particular deal. Every situation is different. Every flip is not going to be the same. You know , every seller's motivation is not going to be the same, you know? So that , those are just the things that we have to keep in mind. But let me say this too guys, don't get stuck on one deal. A lot of people will get fixated on one.
They want this house so bad, you know, it's in a desirable area. You just want it, right. The numbers don't work, they don't work, you know, find what's gonna work for you. And you know, even when you're wholesaling, you can't force to do . And sometimes it's okay to back off and just, you know , follow up on particular properties or projects that you may be interested in and see if the seller ends up coming down and, you know, use that to negotiate or to renegotiate.
So understand that, you know, you have the cash as the investor. So you do have the upper hand in the deal.
Yeah. You might have a great word negotiation. Yes. I know as investors and I know I'm going to be caught out on this. We love to be extremely cheap because we want to make as much money as we can. But at the same time, you mentioned a great point at the beginning of the interview is that the quality of work is going to show if it's not good craftsmanship, not good quality. You're not going to have a buyer that wants to put an offer on your house. Right.
So can you just discuss like how we should not be trying to cut corners? We having in project managing
when it comes to the final product, even though you are the investor and you're the one that's trying to sell, it is a reflection of the builder. Whoever did the work. Oh yeah. You go to a retail store and I can go to the say, you go to Macy's right. Macy's carries all these different brands. Macy's is not responsible for the quality of what you purchase.
So when it comes to whatever you buy, you may buy a guest t-shirt, you may buy a Dolce and Gabbana tee shirt, you know , but whatever happens after you purchase it, you can't hold Macy's responsible. It's going to fall back on that brand comes to the renovation, the investor, of course, yes. You're tied to it. You are going to be associated with it and understanding that. And for me, you know, understanding that it is equally as important for me as it is the investor.
You have to take pride in S in anything that you do. Um , and let me even touch on that with wholesaling, if you don't mind, because I think wholesaling is an industry that for one people are attracted to get into, because it's highly advertised and promoted as a way to start real estate investing, requiring no money, no credit. So if you just have an interest in getting in the business and know , you know what, I need to work on my credit, I need to save some more capital .
I'm not, I'm not at the point where I can invest, but I can come in, learn the business and make money. Okay. Right. The way that you can come in and make money wholesaling, I mean, you can come in and you could be down to your last dollar and you lock up a deal. And then say within two to three weeks, now you've gotten a $5,000 check and you've never even made that type of money working at your job. Right?
A lot of people get caught up in the money making aspect of wholesaling, and they forget that you still have to take so many things into consideration. So when it comes to wholesaling, and even if you're negotiating your own, your own deals as an investor, if you find your own properties and you're dealing with investors or homeowners yourself directly understand that you have to take the homeowner's scenario or their situation into consideration.
So one of the things that you mentioned is as an investor, you want to purchase for as low as possible so that you can make as much as possible. However, understanding what's important to the seller, what's their motivation to sell, what are their needs? Why are they in the situation that they're in and how can we help solve this problem? Right. So we're finding a solution for one problem to help someone.
And then at the same time, we still have to make sure that it's a wise investment in a smart investment to minimize risk and increase return.
Yep . That's an excellent point. That's an excellent point. Okay. Girls . So now you're going to get us financially lit you have school design investing and hiring the project manager and even going into wholesaling with some excellent advice that I'm even going to apply. We're entering your classroom financially lit one Oh one . I'm going to ask you some financial questions and I just want you to be as honest as possible. You can elaborate on it or you could just give me a quick answer.
Okay. Is your classroom okay? So what financial book change the game for you?
This is where we'd be honest, right? Yeah. Okay. So to be honest with you guys, I am not the biggest reader. I do more podcasts, more audio books first, you know, YouTube, things like that. So when it comes down to reading, I'm really not the biggest reader, but I am doing better when it comes to financial literacy. I actually like my dad has a finance background. He's a retired general motors finance manager. So, you know, I've been able to rely on like a lot of personal sources, candle.
I don't, I don't have a book title. I really don't. You know , I think that it's definitely important to rely on sources that you do have. Of course there are books out there , uh, rich dad, poor dad who ate my cheese or who stole my cheese, you know? So definitely those are great sources.
But one thing that I can definitely tell people is to find a CPA or tax preparer , to consult with them because the biggest thing, and, you know, I think we all make the mistake when I first got into the business. And it's easy to do, especially when you have a financial obligations that you want to take care of. Um , when you do make some money, is that you're not putting aside a percent or X number of dollars. You know, that you're not going to touch.
Cause you do have to take into consideration Texas, right? Uh , you have to reinvest into your business. So it's whatever marketing that you're using, you do want to scale up and increase that marketing. So, you know, the amount that you're actually paying yourself is less than 50% of what you actually make. So you have to mentally understand that and be disciplined. I'm sorry. I did just read a book. I was just about to ask you, like I saw you on Instagram posting this book.
I want to know about this book. I tell to myself to complete a book because I've started numerous books, but I just did not finish them. This one was an easy read is called the 12 habits of successful people. A 12 step program of success by Hispanic Pettiford, real easy read 124 pages. And it's not a thicker or big book at all, but one of the 12 habits of successful people is that successful people are disciplined. Okay . So I can actually give you guys, I've got the book right here.
So I can actually give you a , one of the pages that I tagged , which was a big takeaway for me. And I'm actually doing this myself so successful. People are willing to do things. They hate to create the things they love . Okay? So successful people are willing to do things. They hate to create the things they love . They make decisions that create the future. They desire unsuccessful people on the other hand, make decisions that create the present they desire. Okay?
Wow. So the following steps are to help you develop a habit of discipline. So the first list, five areas in your life that lack discipline, they may vary in nature. Number two , place them in order of priority in order to conquer them, certain things have to be addressed immediately while others can be dealt with at a later time. Number three, secure resources, such as books and tapes that will give you instruction and motivation to pack the conquer.
Each area sacrifice about one hour of leisure time per day for the study of personal development. Number four, allow 60 days, two months to work on one area before you go to the next, the development of a habit takes time. The more time you commit to the process, the better your results will be. So the final sentence or last two sentences of this chapter says disciple is the most important key to total fulfillment.
Once you have properly mastered the habit of discipline successful, become your reward. So financially what it takes, it takes discipline.
Yeah. I need to check out that book cause that you said some things right there that just kind of hit right in my gut. That was specifically for me. I should do all the things that we hate. Like, Oh, okay. I heard it. I heard it. The universe is speaking to me. I got it. Okay. So you mentioned your dad being a financial advisor .
He has a tech business that he runs as an independent home business. Okay. So what was the best advice he's given you about the clean ? My mom and dad, both. It's just the importance of saving. Um, you know, always putting money aside for my any day. My mom has always been big. If you get $20, if somebody gives you $20, even if you only put $5 or even $1 out of it, but then into your savings and you do not touch it, my mom has this. Uh , what does she call it?
It's a , um, it's a can old coffee can that she keeps at the top of the closet and it's been there since I was a little girl. And that's her go to so outside of what she has in the bank and what she and my dad, you know, how they've planned and what they do personally, this is just cash that she has on hand. And this hurts .
But you know, when it gets to a certain amount and you want to go do something for yourself and it didn't already have, and you know, I've just always had that as an example. Yeah .
So, you know, my parents, they sacrificed a lot, they sacrificed a lot to save, but now that they're retired and when you see the rewards of the sacrifices that you made and I'm able to witness that, you know, it makes you look in the mirror and, you know, check yourself in some areas because it's definitely not easy. You know, it's just something in an overtime is something that we do and we improve on and hopefully create a habit.
Yep . That's a great information about your mom having that jar. Cause I'm thinking of like the cookie jar, the piggy bank, something, the shoe box where you could just keep money that you're saving. Because of course our generation we've been taught. We're not supposed to do that, but that was like, I wish I would have been doing that because you put the money in the bank, but we're spending it. But if we go back to that out of sight, out of mind, just put a few away.
We wouldn't, some of us would not be in the situation we're in right now.
Right. Right. And you know, like on the news, they were just saying, you know, with everything that's going on with COBIT I forget the percentage, but it's a high percentage of people that don't even have $500 savings account. So if anything comes up, you don't know how you're going to get through.
Yeah. It's at least 80% because it's been that way before COVID is high
and that's our generation, it's our generation. That's specifically our generation .
Yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah. That , that was some great advice.
But you know, the thing to understand is to you guys, is that we're all a work in progress. So don't be ashamed. Like I am not where I want to be right now. I'm not where I should be. And I'll be honest with you guys, but I'm working on it and I'm making sure that for one, I'm keeping the right people in my corner. I have people that I talk to every day and sometimes if I just need to get through, or if I have like a mental block, I have certain people that I'll call for different things.
And when I call them, I get it and vice versa, they need something and they call me for what they need. I give it to them. So, you know, we've got to really have that support system.
Absolutely. It's so funny. You mentioned that because I was just telling a friend of mine, like I think I have to use my name more than ever now and be a light. Like I definitely have to inspire, encourage, motivate, you know, because I need the same thing myself. And at the same time, I'm protecting my light, especially right now, because I can't have those conversations of, Oh my gosh, I don't have any money in the bank account. Oh my gosh , I have a job.
I know we're going to figure out what we can do to put money in the bank account. It's too many opportunities out here. We just got to figure it out. Everything is figureoutable we're going to get it. So you're exactly right. Cause it's like those conversations like, Oh, we gotta change it. No change that language. We can't speak that. We can't think that. So you're exactly right on that. Especially now more than ever more than ever.
Let me tell you, you can be up today and down tomorrow. Yes. And I mean , I know people that have told me how many times they'd been a millionaire before. No. So in my mind, it's just like, okay, you can tell me that you've been a millionaire five times. What happened each time you had to recharge or restart. And you know, the thing is guys is when we make these mistakes, you learn from it. So you just get better going forward. So you don't want it to be a continuous, like teeter-totter effect.
You want to get that bruise, but don't get that same bruise again.
And then like you said, I mean, we just have to get motivate each other because like you said, which I love this quote about, you can just do it one time and it's proof that you could do it again. We are going to bounce back from this.
Absolutely, absolutely. We have no choice. We have no choice. And you know, with that being said to candle, the world evolves constantly. And what we have to do is adapt to change. So, you know, whatever our new normal is going to be, everybody has to ask themselves like, what are you going to do to adapt? And I know for me during this time , uh , you know, for the most part, I was still having to run to my projects. I was minimizing the amount of time that I was out, just because of COVID.
So, you know, literally going out, taking the necessary precautions to be safe, but then coming back home and really thinking about like, what is my next step going to be? And if things don't change and this is our new norm, how can I still continue to do my business to grow and not be impacted in such a way to where I can't figure it out.
Right. That's also important when you said reading those from reading the excerpts from that book, because I mean, that really spoke to me because I know I'm having to readjust. I know I can't go and show properties as much as I wanted to find my next rehab, as quick as I wanted to. So I'm being a big Brad about this, but hearing you say, you know, you're gonna have to do some things you don't like, you know, and it may not be forever just temporarily. I got do it. I've got to learn
how to adjust. And so, I mean, it's , it's been a crazy kind of week, but I'm adjusting hearing that makes me want to adjust even better now because I'm fortunate that I can adjust. Absolutely. It was another, another strong takeaway that I had in this book that I do want to share . This chapter is successful people, value relationships.
Okay. Kind of going back because as we're going through, everything that we're going through right now is the time where I think us as a people, and this is society in not even just as Americans , cause this is an international worldwide pandemic, right? For me, it's been a time to really reflect on, you know, all of our purposes. Like, you know, we didn't create this planet. We didn't choose to be born, but we're here. Right?
So understanding like what are we doing as a people to take care of each other, take care of everything that has life on this planet. I'm like, what are we really doing to be positive influences and contributors to the place that we live . Right? The biggest thing. And like, I'm just, I'm so big on relationships. Um, I have not been able to do this by myself and I do not care to even try to do this by myself, developing the right relationships with people will save you years of hard work.
Amen. It doesn't make much difference. How much other knowledge or experience in executive possesses, if he is unable to achieve results through people, he is worthless as an executive. If he is unable to achieve results through people, he is worthless as an executive. So he has so many people that have all these degrees, all this, all these accolades and all this good stuff. But if you cannot influence people, motivate people and impact people's growth.
You're , you're going to still be just somebody with a bunch of blades and papers. And you're exactly right. You are teaching in this classroom today Mo for real real education. So, you know, it's just a lot of things that I think about. And um , you know, when it comes to how I operate, everybody has to do, what's gonna work for you, but understand like you cannot do this alone. Right, right . That's a great point. Okay. So let's say Trump has 25,000 stimulus package into your bank account.
What would you do with it? Invest in real estate. Yeah . So with that being said, let's quiz you candle. So if you want to get into a flip, right. Okay. And you've already broken down the numbers. Let's say if your purchase price is going to be 80,000. Okay. The renovation is going to be a hundred thousand. Ooh . How much, how much in reserves or revolving capital do you need to float you throughout? Okay. So I would need percent of that. One 80, 20 to 25, right? Yeah .
No of the 100, the renovation budget. Oh, okay. Okay. So it's not the full amount, it's just that renovation budget. Yep . What I'm focusing on is just the revolving capital to get through the renovation.
You do have to take into consideration, but you'll have to come to closing with, on your side with the lender , but innovation, if we're looking at a a hundred thousand dollar renovation and you need 20 to 25%, you're talking 20 to 25,000 off of that 100,000, I got a $25,000 stimulus package from Trump. I would invest in a great deal. Nice. That is excellent. And there it is.
And then, you know, depending on your situation , um , you know, say, if you do need, if you do need some funding or some financial assistance, give yourself what you need, no excess or anything like that. And then if you need to find another , um, another partner with capital to come in, you know, market yourself and go find someone, you know, Hey, I've got 15,000, I just need another 10,000 and now you have a cash partner on the deal. Okay. So Mo what is your ultimate goal?
My ultimate goal is to be financially free, to have the flexibility, to know that everything is basically running itself. So to say, so what , what I desire to do is to actually create a wheel this constantly, constantly spinning. So just like you have a hamster that's running on that treadmill, it's going to continue to continue to spin around and around and around, you know, but there requires a team. It requires, it requires you to put in the work to get to that point.
You hear a lot of successful people talk about how they make money in their sleep, you know, things like that. So, you know, the ultimate goal is to definitely have, honestly, I would like to have like say maybe three to four flips going annually. I will definitely love to have , uh , some rental properties as well. So that's where your residual income comes in.
So when you're making money in your sleep as an investor, if you have a rental portfolio , um , or other income generating properties, you set yourself up for that. So, you know, definitely diversing myself, diversifying myself within this business and longterm goal on the development or construction side is to get into developments . So, you know, doing some complexes or townhouses, subdivisions, you know, things like that. So just, you know, really just increasing and , uh , and growing.
And that, I think that'll create the financial freedom that I'm looking forward to allow me the flexibility to , uh , do the things that I want to do. See the places I want to see. They'll leave a legacy. So nice. Well, you took us to school that's for sure. I'm looking forward to listening to this podcast interview . Cause it was so many lessons that you in this. So candle , I'll be honest with you. I've , I've done, I've been interviewed, I've done shows and things like that.
This is my first time being interviewed on this platform and you know, we're not in person and you know, I just thank you for the opportunity. And , um, there's so many other people out here that you could have gone to for information. And I'm , you know , I'm just, I'm appreciative of this opportunity. So I thank you .
Yup . Well, likewise, likewise, I definitely appreciate your time and your knowledge
and if I can real quick , um , definitely guys for anybody that's in the Atlanta area. And even if you're not for reading material, my brother owns a bookstore here in Atlanta. So, you know, we definitely want to support our black owned businesses and our small business owners. My brother has a bookstore called newbie and bookstore is in Morrow, Georgia. You guys can look it up if there's anything that you are wanting to get as far as reading material.
And if you're Greek, the store is full of paraphernalia. Uh, definitely , uh, he can get you whatever reading material that you are looking for. His name is Marcus Williams. Uh, I believe Instagram is at Nubian bookstore , but definitely guys, you know, you need anything, you know this , when I do get my reading material, you know that that's who I go to that. So I get it from so , um , just have to put that out there.
Nice. Nice. Definitely. Definitely. I have , uh , I have been a customer of Marcus and I've also worked with him before, so I definitely, I'm glad you gave a shout out to him. Yeah , it is a small world.
Yeah. Cause you didn't, you didn't even know that we were even related.
No, no, not at all.
So it Nubian underscore bookstore,
well, Mo hustle actually appreciate your time and energy and most of all your light today.
Oh thank you guys. And you guys can follow me on Instagram at Mo hustle. That's M O H U S T L E underscore eight one zero
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has been kind enough to leave a sample of a scope of work and also a blank copy that you can use with your contractors. It's available for [email protected] forward slash podcast, along with most contact information, if you would like to reach out to her for a consult there, you also find transcripts of this episode and access to other interviews. I have to say thank you to G L Willis. He listens to lighting up real estate podcasts and left an awesome review on iTunes.
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