How to Flip a House for Top Dollar

Well, my guest and my friend Milton is here today to help you. He will be sharing 11 secrets for how to get high after repair value and make the most you can from your flip. These strategies are what Milton and his team do always and come out with high profit and you can apply these strategies to your business today. Let's go. Hey Milton, welcome to lighting up real estate.

I've seen it on Instagram and on Facebook and I just want you to share with us today like how we can sell our rehabs for top dollar because everybody can't afford you. But then I'm pretty sure after this interview, a lot of people will be reaching out to you, but you're here to serve today. So , so let's go over , um , one, let's do this before we even go into how to sell our rehabs for top dollar. This is talk about what you do and how you got into this.

But, you know, I actually, I didn't, I didn't, you know, I'm actually working three days a week and a chiropractor as well for , can you believe it or not? Right. They called me , they wanted me to come to work. So guess what? I do that. So guess what, look, I look, I have multiple streams of income, right? Yes .

And so I would work with them with, you know , their rental properties when they would go in and rehab and rent and rent them out. And so, and this was like I said back in the nineties and now we're at 2020 and I'm kind of doing the same thing, kind of found my way back to that. And so that's kinda my background as it comes to that.

And so , I rehab that property, they came, they filmed it and back then it was one of their highly rated shows. They , they would play it all the time. Um , and that , and let's not forget Oprah came to it as well.

So you got to , you got to make sure that once you put all this money in, you're going to be able to get a profit out. Cause you know, you got to take out closing costs, sometimes agent real estate fees and whatever it's going to cost at the end. Sometimes people don't think about that, that the real thing that the agent could get 3% of that cost or 6% or whatever, you know, whatever that rate is that they agree to.

So a lot of times, you know, you know, a lot of times buyers and our flippers are not really thinking, thinking the whole thing through and the whole picture. So you want to think about all those things going in because now the house market is on fire. The cost of a rehab has, the cost of rehabs have increased, materials are costly have become costly. So you just really have to be very careful with it.

It's not, it's not fun and games all the time because there are some people who have lost their back in a rehab. Yeah . Because they put too much more money into it too much. And you can with over improving, right. Or, or in a property that you , that they can't sell for the amount they need to make a profit on it . Or during the rehab they have somebody that ran off with 20 or $50,000 of their rehab budget and the practice . And that happens too.

So that's why it's so important to have a good team that you trust, that have the same vision that you do. So there are lots of things you need to think about it cause you could lose your back in one rehab.

If they're not, if they are married, the woman is still the one who makes the optimal decision on this house or not. So you need to know who your market will be. If it's going to be 20 something age group, you didn't know what their income level is, you didn't know all those things. So you need to know what their expectation is when they open that door and come in and you just make sure you have a, I mean we have a checklist, make sure they have this, that this, you know, the kitchen is redone.

You have courts , you have new floors, you have, you know, maybe some built-ins in the walk in closet or or walk in closet. There are certain things you have to know to get that maximum amount of dollars out . So you need to understand that. So it's not what you like. So don't go in , are we going to do a theater room? Nobody wants that.

So sometimes put money in things that makes no sense. Or I've been to a property like Y that they spent all these thousand dollars in these professional rate appliances. Why? This is not in this neighborhood. That's not what they're expecting. So some people, you know, they go about what their pref preferences are and what they like and they don't do their homework to what our buyer is looking for. Right. You know.

So by the time ours gets on, we go on market, we, we kind of know what's expected. We've , we even call sometime call the other agents and get feedback from, from their property. So you do those things, you know your buyers . So when you're ready to go, you have met all those expectations. You , you just went out there rehabbing a house by yourself and not asking those questions. It's important to go ask the questions, get the information that you need for your particular house.

And a lot of times people don't do that. They just rehab a house. They don't go look at the house across the street. They just know that one sold neighborhood, let's say one sold for 350,000 but you didn't go look at it. You didn't, you may have saw a picture to them online, but again they airbrush photos, right? We actually go to those houses and walk them right.

And because of my background in interior design, I can tell you when I, within reason I can walk out and I can tell you, okay, the buyer's going to have an issue with that. They're going to have this, this is not going to sell at the price they wanted to sell for. Cause this was not done right. And you can tell them , you know, and, and you're , and when you're rehabbing a house, you don't want a buyer, a potential buyer to think that you have cut costs anywhere.

But we are cutting costs, but you don't want to be apparent that you cut costs . Why don't you paint all the rooms of the house in the rehab. You paint all the rooms but you don't paint these three rooms. Like why'd you do that while all these rooms, one color and either another color. What happened back here? You know? So it's little things that, you know, you have to be conscientious of what people are looking for and their expectations.

And I just find that a lot of people don't do their homework. They just, they're just thinking this big payout at the end, but they don't know the hard work in between. You know, that that happens with the construction, the staging, the listing, the selling, they don't understand all that. They just want to get a paycheck at the end. Yeah . And if you're pulling in it for the paycheck, you're doomed to fail because your , your , your , your eyes on the wrong thing.

It's , you know , you know, when a person comes in, any of my interior designs when it is , whether it's rehab or some of my higher end clients, I want my clients to feel a certain way when they walk into that room. I need that. I need that room to attack them with some sort of emotion that when they leave it, that emotion is there. And when they walk back into that room that I want that emotion to come back a lot. I want it , I want it to burn.

So when my properties, we do, when clients go into these houses, they're in there for hours cause they're like, we like this house. That's because they had a professional like me to be there to add those details. They're in there walking them. My house is make them think, you know, and again, because we went to all the other properties, we try to add all the little details that buyers are looking for.

And if you add all those things, you know, you will get top dollar and you sometimes get over asking cause we've had that happen as well.

Paint every room, get you painted a neutral color, you know , um, you know, what's popular now, the re repose gray or agreeable graze . Um , both of those assurance , Williams colors . So most houses across in the , in the country will be painted those light grays , um , or are lighter white or even , uh , extra white. That's another Sherman Williams color . But you want to paint it light and bright because the lighter it is, the bigger it's going to appeal.

It's going to be, and more people can see themselves living in a, you know, in this neutral space. Then you attacking them with the Crayola box. You don't want an orange or orange room, green room, red room, purple room. Nobody wants there and no one wants to do any work. They want to, they want to get a mortgage close on that house, move in it and live. They don't want to be weekend warriors. They ain't trying to paint it. They ain't trying to update the floors.

They ain't trying to update the kitchen. They're not doing that. If they got make too much work, sometimes over a $500 , a thousand dollar project they don't want to do, which is not in the house.

So you know, so you just want to do the right things with your property, keep it within a certain budget, make it shine, make it pop, and then you will get a buyer, you will, someone will come along and they will buy that property from you. But again, that that comes with proper planning.

Because if you can , if you could only make 20,000, that may not be worth your time doing it because 20,000 is not to do because you're going to work for that 20,000. You want to get the maximum amount of money out of the property. So, so you want to definitely do your homework, do your due diligence with the property. Um, because you don't wanna , you don't wanna lose your back and a property. Cause I mean there are some people who have done it who have done that. They've made bad moves.

They'd have had contractors that run off with their money. Um , or another thing that happens candle is, you know, you're doing a rehab in one of these gentrifying neighborhoods. You go that night, somebody breaks in and steals all of your equipment that steals your supplies, your materials. What do you do? How do you recoup the costs and stuff ? That's a lot of money to recoup. So you have to really be very diligent about your project. Cause it happens all the time.

We've had lumber , lumber, and um, different things stolen from our props . You know, one thing, one thing we do with ours , um, cause see you have people that are that ride around and look for dumpsters, right? That's always a telltale sign that something is going on and people see that dumpster, they automatically assume that's a rehab and there could be materials, equipment inside their property and they'll break in , in the middle , middle of the night, and still your neighbor hide them .

So a lot of times we don't get dumpsters until we need them and we make them come get them. We don't let them sit at the property. Or if we, or if we have a property where we can hide the dumpster behind the house, we hide it. So it's not apparent from the street that there's a dumpster there. So there are things you have to be very cautious of going in because there are sharks out here that are looking to get over on you. So there's lots of little things.

You have to be very careful if in the process of a rehab.

I should want to stop my car when I go down the street. I should want to slow down and say, Ooh, that's a nice house. You know, it ain't just having a nice house. The lawn makes the house nice. When we go to bucket and we look at those multimillion dollar mansions, they are nice because they have beautiful manicured lawns. The mash , that manicured house. So do some things to the house. There's some things you can do, you know, I mean just, you know , cut the grass. Like I said, trim the hedges.

Sometimes you might have to take a tree or two out that may be high . The potential of the house, you know . So there are lots of things that you can do. But again, painting and doing the are are great things to do that or you know sometimes you know the cheaper things you can do in the house to increase the value.

And as I was saying earlier, buyers have now are now getting more savvy and they're asking for permits. Was this work permitted because they feel more comfortable buying this out if you pull a permits through the city cause they feel because they are , they are feeling that an inspector came out and overlooked this stuff and signed off on it. So we try to do everything new, new kitchen, new bathrooms, new roof, you know, and sometimes even do new driveways. It all depends on budget. Okay.

Okay. So then the next one, next point you said was choosing the right team. Yes. So one is very important to have a good team, right? So when our team, you know, we have the real estate agent, we have a construction lead, somebody who leads the construction, you have me, the interior designer, we have the construction crew , right? And then we have our inspector because it's, it's a mix of male and female, right?

And we all talk about the property, you know, we're all, we all have different points of view. So because we have a female sometimes , construction lead or the female agent, you know, when we're talking about the property, you know, they may come in and say, Milton, to me the house seems dirty...I'm a woman. I want to feel safe in the house. You know, it's a big thing, Campbell , you're female and you have women clients, they want to feel welcome in the house.

So when I'm coming up with the design, we all talk about those things. So it's important that you have a good team that understands what needs to happen in this house so that we can get the house cause you know, done the construction done and get it to where it's listed and sold. So we all kind of worked together as a team when it comes to those. Funny you asked that. We have a , we have a project under construction now house almost 5,000 square feet houses.

I mean it's just a , to me it's really, it's too big for what it, what it is, right? We're going back and forth about, I want them to add a tub to the master bathroom. I freestanding tub the house is too big not to have one, 5,000 square feet. Yes . It's too big not to have one. Right. So my feedback is coming from the real estate agent because she's saying because she's telling me and I'm referring to my flipper, you know, cause I mean we're all together.

So sometimes I take the lead and sometimes she takes the lead . So it all depends on situation, right? Because I have , I'm a little bit more vocal, so a lot of times I may have more pool than sometimes the agent, sometimes you have more pool. So we all kind of play off of each other and figure out, you know, good cop, bad cop. But you know, we all got the same goal of getting it done. We have two properties listed currently in both have , well one has a freestanding into one does not. Right.

So she showed both properties and, and the concern that's has has popped up twice at this price point. Why does this property not have the freestanding tub that house has when there's only a $20,000 difference? And the one that has the freestanding tub is 20,000 more. Right, right. She likes the one that does not because it's cheaper, but it does not have that tub. Right.

So my concern, and we all had a conference call about that earlier today, she pulled comps and she and I , and when I went with my information be over, she said that to me, she said, you handle that. She said everything that's over 400,000 has a tub and shower in the master. Right? And because we, again, so she pulled the comps, I presented the comps . We have this property, this property, this property, this property, they all have tubs.

So, and she's got the feedback from two showings of our current properties that are , a couple of the clients were asking why was it there to up in this house, right ? So with this house is way bigger than the other house and we're like, we got the space. Why not just go ahead, bite the bullet and put the tub in there.

When you do comps , they're gonna look at, well this one was this amount. It had all this weight on this planet because a lot of buyers are not necessarily so concerned with square footage, especially in the city. They don't need space, right? And this house is six bedrooms, right? It's just like space everywhere. And we're like, the house is too big not to have that in the master. So he's considering it and we're thinking about moving some money around not doing something else to do that.

And I'm telling him that's important. We have to have certain amenities. If you're going to buy a $500,000 house, you want to brag about your spa back . I'm sorry if you don't use that tub or not . People want to brag about I have it. You start getting at that price point. You want to brag about you have it. It's funny when I talk about 500,000 I was talking to an agent here recently and she said all of her buyers from LA have to buy something at least half a million.

They will not buy a house if it's not familiar cause they want to be able to brag and say my house was half a million dollars. So when you start asking higher prices, you have to have the amenities to back it up.

Because again, I've made a believer out of him. And when you , if you've, if you've got a PA , if you sold 10 50 houses in the past, he's not going to fight me on anything. He's going to try to figure out how to find those monies to get it done. Right. The track record. Right. So one of the things this house has already cause he likes to paint the brick, right? Cause you know that's the, that's the new craze painting the brick cause it makes the house more modern.

We know that issue cause we've had that, we've had that conversation in the bath with one of your hands . So, but this house is already white brick, right? So I'm like well let's not spend the money in painting the already white brick. That's just , just clean the brick. This just pressure wash debris. It may come back white. It's been sitting there for years. We can take that because that's several thousand dollars in labor and paint to paint the whole exterior. That big house.

That's our money for this tub. Excellent. So so there , so we figure out ways to find the money to get it done. The end of the day we're trying to find ways to add the details that our buyer is looking for and maximize that sale price. Yeah. And another thing we're doing, because this particular house is funky, is really big.

It's it set where it's really, it's a two story house, but the upper floor is all the common areas and the master service staircase down and that's where the other five bedrooms are in the basement where it's not really a basement but it's just like a funky style funky plan. So right now it's just a little rinky dink skyrocket . I'm like, no, this needs to be a grand staircase. We need to open this thing up where it's two story where this thing feels like house and not going to amazement again.

So I had a contractor, our contractor came out, I met with him over there. I said we need to know how much more this is going to be cause it's a change order. How much more he's going to charge us to do that. But it came out, it was a nominal amount and he was like, go for it. So there's a deck on the back of the half of a full deck on the rear of the house. So master has access to the deck. I'm like, this window has to go, we need a French door to the deck.

That's so now you got up , you had access to the rear deck from your master. So that's an appendage . So instead of buying a window, let's buy a French door. So if you know all of those little things that you know, I come in and you know what, I kind of , you know , come from a buyer, a buying perspective and a design perspective and a functional perspective. So it was little small stuff.

And another thing, you know, another thing you , we, you know, I brought, I said, okay, this is a 5,000 square foot house. Where is the fireplace? Some people won't and fireplace there and this house, there's some people I'm not buying, I wasn't, I was a fireplace. So we're gonna do a fireplace. It ain't going to be a real wood burning fireplace. It was going to be the same fireplace they put in new construction. So we're going to add that because that's an app .

That's a detail that people will be expecting and looking for, you know, to get the property. So, so, so they kind of looked me for that. And because I'm vocal and passionate about this stuff, I kind of lead that charge. They kind of leave that to me. So when it comes to that, if it's a change order, I tend, I meet with the contractor, we walk it, I show them what I want. This is what I expect over here. How much more is this?

So I can present to, you know, to the financing side to see if we have money for that.

I don't know what you're paying for this house, but I will say you're probably dismaying no more than this to rehab it. Right? Cause I will ask them one, how much are you paying for it? Right. Sometimes they don't want to tell me. I was like, well that's important. It's very important. How much was it? How much did you pay for it?

I hope you didn't pay too much because a lot of times that happens because what you, so because what you're trying to do to it, you know, it just may not work and you and you may have to be a little bit more creative. But again, it's important, you know to know that.

But again, I will come out and kind of walk the property with them, kind of get some insight from them, give them a little knowledge based on my experience and what, you know, what I think will happen, I had a contractor call me yesterday, he's rehabbing a house , household roll park . He was like, he sent me over plans, blueprints . He was like, what do you think? He said , dude, should we build a two car garage or should we do a deck? You know?

And I was wondering, you know, and of course at confidence standpoint, where's your agent? Right? And he , and he tells me, my agent is not an experienced agent. Right? She's not experienced. You don't need her on the team. You don't need on your team.

And I, and I'm like, well, you know, how has the neighborhood, I know that's a neighborhood that's kind of being gentrified at the time, but I was like, well, you know, garage is really, really won't really won't push your price up in that neighborhood where footage would, but if it's not going to cost you that much money to build it , you know, it may be, it may be an amenity for a single woman who wants to put our car in a garage at night. Um , when she comes home, let the door down.

So if it's not much, if it's in budget, yes do it. But garage is sometime don't increase your bottom line. So my, so my thing to him was, you know, looking back at your, at your, your figures and your numbers because I don't think it would increase your sale price. So you mentioned a single woman and a single man. What I know what's going to be different than what they're looking for. Um , men are going to be more functional. I think they have to be functional.

Okay. Women want the house Hrdy pretty first and foremost. And then they'll, they'll divert the function . Okay. But it also needs to be functional. Me ain't going to go what's going to be functional, what we really need. Maybe as long as everything works. Yes . As long as it works, it's clean out of that, you know, th th you know, long as they have the certain things that are fine but women are going to ask more, ask for more things. They're gonna sometimes ask more questions.

Especially, you know, essay kitchen. Right. You know, they're guys that cook. But most women, you know, let's say, you know , um, when we see it right, cause we watch it. Okay . So we have a couple comments and you may have seen this, right? A couple comes in the house, right? First walking in, they split up, right? Yeah. They split up. Woman goes to the kitchen, man goes to the bedroom, right. We see that all the time.

All the time they split up, they're not together and one goes one way, one goes another way. Because I need to see where I'm going to be sleeping cause I want to go to sleep. Great point. It's the functionality, functionality. Where are we going to be having sex ? Yeah. You know they're going back there , right? That bedroom woman in the kitchen. Right, right, right. Then they're going to come back out. Right. And then she's going to the closet.

Yes. Yes. Because I need the place to put all my lubricants and my shoes and my purse and all that stuff. Then she looking in that closet and seeing how many other clouds is there that she can use. Right, right. The man is looking, okay, where is my man cave? Right. Where is my meat space ? Right. So it's all those little things that happens.

But again, like I said, men does tend to be a little bit more, you know, they're looking for function and form where women are looking for a beauty purity , but it also functions, it needs to. Right , right. And that's a great point. So a lot of the details we do, we're doing them for the woman we're doing them. We have to wow the woman cause you know, she has to feel safe there and that house, she has to want to be in the house.

You know, she has to know that , that if her husband is not home or she's single, that I'm going to feel safe being in this house by myself. Excellent point. So some of the houses we , we go ahead and wire for cameras. Sometimes we put the cameras on, we do it sometimes, you know , depending on the property we add additional things for security for the buyer because that's a good selling point. Everybody's comfortable than what they're , what they're buying.

You know , I feel safe at the house when they're there alone, you know, cause you know , this is a major purchase so they got to be able to feel like they're safe at their house. And, and you know, I'm part of that, that when we're designing, we're designing it to make sure it has a good flow and feel safe. You don't want it to feel amazing. Boxing , you know, or, or where it's like, Oh my God, it's too many clauses. There's too many doors, there's too many of this .

Cause you know, for OCD person that could kind of throw them off. Yeah.

But of course it's just an estimate because they change like I think a current project we need a tub so we have to move money to get the tub in because the market is changing . Cause you know dealing with this Corona virus stuff, people are now, you know , even though the coronaviruses is going on, we are , we are still having showings. People are still two and three showing properties, but it's also making us do more things that people are also getting a little more picky.

Right. And then you know, and then the eight, the real estate agent may not be on all, but she's also, you know, she's on, on some of them cause again she's watching the market, right? Right. You want , okay . Cause she may come in, we need this hot , this property done . So I can list right there because I'm watching the market, we need it on market. Now. Timing is, is essential. So, so we, so we, we, we meet once a week and talk about those things.

So I may take the lead at one. The real estate agent may take the lead at one. Um, my investor may lead at one, right? So one strategy or one person is not being overwhelmed. All the projects, right. So we all, and so if it's, if it's the conference call, okay now we're talking about if it's 1158 cascade, this is the house we talking about. So we do everything there , then we go to the next project.

So we kind of talk about them all at the same time because it's the same construction crew crew is doing the properties, but there's a different goal. And every house nice hold is a little bit different or expectation is a little bit different depending on the project. So it's not the same lead every time. And so my, my role as an interior designer may be Gleed I may have to lead, I may be be the project manager, right.

Or it may or they may need me, I may need to do a floor in the courtroom to pick up materials. It ought to be a goal . What needs to happen. Cause again, the big thing, we've got to get this project done so we can get on Mark . And so, so it kind of moves around and because it moves around, everybody gets a little experience in all the roles.

And then the great strategy and then, and everybody learns a little bit about construction and it goes a little , a little bit about, they say the plumbing, the electrical, the flooring, the sheet rock and you and everybody knows kinda you're not, you don't have one person that knows everything and he's old people that know nothing about it. I don't know anything about that.

I don't think that pretty much what you're saying is like everybody's like the, as a lead , you're somewhat of the project manager in a sense . Yes. So, so cause because my, the guy that I work with, he's corporate, right?

So it's more of a , so when we deal with it , it's like a corporate, we're like winter , almost a corporate , um , conference room talking cause he's, cause he comes from a corporate background so we have to step it up to, it's like a corporate thing and we've kind of translated into, into house flipping. Right. We're just not in suit and tie. You know, we got on work boots, we got dust, we're in the mood, you know , you know, we dealing with the snake house. Right.

You know, we dealing with, you know , whatever is in the property. But again, that's kind of how he, how he does and you know, and we all kind of have a role and responsibility to , to do our job and get back. This is what I found. This is what's going on, this is how we going to fix it and this is how we're going to move on. So that's assistant he's created. That's working. Yes. Yes. That kind of works. And so he kind of brings that from his corporate environment and so nice .

And so, and it helps that, you know, he's good with money. Right. You know, good money, good money manager. So that's green . And, and what's good about him is what he does for our houses. Um , at the end, cause he likes to get his, get his hands dirty. He will take his suit and power off and he builds all the mailboxes. Wow. So he puts his personal touch on his desk. That's what he does. David project.

So all of our projects, you know his projects because they all have the customized mailbox that he built. So that's his to every project. That's his, that's what he puts in. But anything else designed ? That's a moving question. So the contractor don't call him, no one calls him for interior design. They're calling me and when it comes to that, cause he don't, that's not his, his realm . Okay. We call him when it comes to money. Okay. So how has this business been going with , with at 19?

So, so we had one property , um , where we have, we have, we have one that we listed right at the height. I mean, right . I guess right in the middle of this COBIT 19 crisis , um, that we listed. We have, we have one on market. They all, they're both on the same street. Right? We're getting good feedback. Cause the first day , um , of listing one property, we had I think eight showings. So that's a lot of showings and are in a crisis that we're dealing with. So it's getting good feedback. Right.

But we haven't quite got the buyer. But what's crazy about it? A house that we sold last year, right to a family from Denver. Right. It's looking at one of our properties to buy a second property. Yes. Wow. Literally going to move across the street and pick up another one of our properties because they liked the other one we did. So I don't know what they're going to do with that one if they're going to sell it or rent it.

They are looking, cause we have , again, they're two of them and they're their agent. They keep looking at it. So my feedback from our agent is like, I really think they're going to make a offer. How much do you have Alyssa ? Four . So we have one that's at four 59 and one is think four 29 okay. So I really haven't missed a beat really. So what happens is, because they're in this down the same street, when buyers come these , they look at both, right?

The price is so close so they can compare one to the other. That's the , that's how the issue came up with , with the spa bath, with the tub. Because the one at four 59 has the spa bath . The four 29 does not. Okay. But the four 29 , um , I think is larger in square footage over the four 59 and the one that four 59 has a , has a kitchen in the basement and the four 29 does not. So you're there, you know, there are, you know, one has, this one does not. So they have, you know, similar, right.

Similar designed cause I did both of them, both the beautiful, but yeah , we're get feet, you know, there are a lot of, we still getting, like I said, a lot of traffic but we're waiting on a, on a buyer and I think, you know, I think we're going to get, we'll get a contract soon, but I think, you know, this COBIT 19 has kind of slowed it down, slowed the process. It's kind of slowing it down, but we're getting a lot of feedback, a lot of traffic.

But like I said, I'm a buyer that bought one of our other houses is looking at it. And so that just lets you know if they buy, if they will buy another house from us, we must be putting out a good product. Oh yeah, absolutely. Yeah .

That's something else you , you want to think about when you're doing a rehab because a buyer may not buy a house if it does not have a big enough yard because they don't have kids. I bet you they have a dog with you or a cat. So , so they're leaning towards the one with the, that already has a fence, the rear yard because they have a couple of dollars . And so that's, that's where, you know, cause they have no kids, they just have two dogs and so the dog.

So, and that's a, another thing you want to think about, cause you know that was stop a person from buying a house because I have a bout , I don't have a place to be. Fido is the family and people are going to buy based on the dog. And so one house is on the busy is on the busier side of the street with no fence. The other one is down the street with the fence. So they're leaning towards that one because they feel more safe.

You know, they're um, the dog so the dog won't run into the street and they unravel and that one is already fence. They don't want to spend their money in defense the other way . Okay. Cause that's another project that won't turn key so they can see themselves and the dog there because they can just look , let the dog out and the yard is already fenced and he can roam and come back in the house or they do a doggy door. But that's another thing cause people will buy based on their animals .

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