Welcome back. Our goal on lighting up real estate is to shine a light on people, strategies, systems, and ideas that will help you become a real estate investor. Have you considered becoming a landlord or currently a landlord, but don't like the existing homes on the market or do you see a missed opportunity for homes in a great school district or an emerging neighborhood? Well, my guest today, Melanie saw a problem and the vacant lots and created a solution.
She's a real estate investor who builds her own rental properties. In this show, she shares the pros, cons and her strategies for choosing her team and the last one she builds. Before you hear our conversation, here's Melanie's background. She's been in real estate investing for over 15 years as a flipper landlord and land owner. She's a graduate of Austin P university with an MBA in finance and is a certified P. and. P. her full time job is manager of a supply chain.
She's a think outside of the box investor that is planning for the longterm by not only investing in real estate but also when the stock market and in her business, Lula roof.com and online boutique. Here's my best friend Melanie. Hey, best friend Melanie, how are you?
I'm fine. How are you Candle? So excited. One, that I've created this podcast. Two that my best friend is my very first person that I'm interviewing. And three, this podcast was created because of a conversation that we had and I shared it with my mentees and now it's turned into this. So I am really grateful that you're on my, my first show.
I am so excited to be here with you today and to engage with your audience as well.
I gotta remember that we got to stay focused and we're talking about real estate and we're not going to get into everything else. Like the other stuff that we always get into. I know, so we're just gonna stay focused. But definitely I want to just talk with you about how we usually always talk really. Cause whenever we talk it's pretty much about business.
We're always, you know , sharing with each other our goals are what we have working on or projects , um, different ideas that we want to have and we just share with each other. So it was just pretty much one of these conversations that we generally have. We're just sharing it with the world right now.
Exactly. I know someone, was asking me the other day like, Hey , um , have you talked to Candle lately? Did you tell her you were going to be in Knoxville ? And I was like, yes, I've talked to her. But we were talking about real estate.
Right! Yeah, we always had those different conversations. But yeah, so let's talk about real estate. So like I've known you since we were kids and one thing that we've had in common i s that both of our parents were in real estate. So we're second generation real estate investors. And I was looking at, you know, your bio and reading it. And it was ironic to me that, I mean, you have a history in real estate investing.
Like you have flipped with your dad, you have flipped with a group of friends, u m, even bought land and you have built properties on the land that you've purchased. But ironically your favorite deal was just buying a piece of land and selling it for profit. So tell me about that experience. Like why would that be your favorite out of all the great things you've done that I 've known you to do?
That was my favorite deal. Like I guess because my expectations were a little bit lower. I think some of the deals that I've gotten into like flipping a house , um, I had very high expectations. And so with the land , um, it was in an area in Chattanooga that was not quite revitalized, but there was talks that it would be, and there was actually a house on it. So, my plans were to flip it, but the house was just very, just in very bad condition. So I decided to demolish it.
And once I did that, I just sat on it for awhile because I was trying to think about what I needed to do and then people continued to contact me about it. And then finally, probably about 10 years later, I decided to sell it.
And the reason why that was my favorite deal was because I'm A:, it was a pretty easy, I have to admit as far as like the upkeep, it was low risk and then I 'm being, I m ean it was just nice being able to see a part of my community for someone to take the land build on it and then to create something nice. And u m, I really l ike that because it was a way of, u m, feeding into the community more.
But then also at the same time, I have to admit it was just a , a low risk project, whereas a lot of the projects that I work on, there's just a lot more r isks.
Wow. So do you get , uh , do you feel like you get more benefits out of taking more risks than not taking risks ?
I think that, yes. I think that you do, you do get more benefits out of taking a bigger risk as they say. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Right. That's like the whole time I'm just nervous about it. And with this particular gift deal, maybe I was taking a risk, but it was just like I didn't realize it. I was like, Oh , okay, well I'll just sit on it for awhile and things just kind of happened and fell into place.
Whereas, you know , a lot of times in some of the deals I've been in, there's just a lot more money that I have to put in, you know, up front . But I do pay so that you had, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I do think that you can gain more , um, with the more risks that you're willing to take.
Okay. So what the land deal, was this your first deal?
It was not, so this was actually my third. So my first was um , uh , flip that out . The flip I did with my dad and I will say with that one, it was just like a break even know what the flip I deal with my dad. And then the um, the second one was with some friends and we flipped and it was right at the time where the market, the housing bubble took place. And so at that point we got an offer and the offer was, you know, much more.
And because I was in a partnership with several people , um, we decided not to take that offer thinking that another one would come along that was better. So lesson learned there. Sometimes it's best to take the first deal because the number one did not come along and that's when the housing bubble happened.
And so we decided to keep it for several years as a rental property, which was good too because we always had a renter and in the end we still, you know , made money off of it and decided to sell it later. So this was actually my third deal and , and I actually, and I really thought I was going to flip the house that was on there, but after I'm evaluating it, I just decided to demolish it because it was too far gone.
So take me back to the first deal, the one that you did with your dad. Whose idea was it? Did you approach him? Did he approach you? How did you negotiate ? Who was going to be responsible for what? Like how did you guys analyze or create a system for that deal?
Okay. So I approached my dad, I was little at the time, you know, a lot of the TV shows or we're out about flipping homes. And I approached my dad. I was like, Hey, I was like, well you flip a house with me. And he was like, Hm . Not the thought about it. But my dad, he's always been the type that has been in , um, been an entrepreneur. Um , he's had a store, a couple stores actually in the past.
And once I explained to him what I wanted to do, he said, sure, if you find something then I'll go in with you. And there was a real estate agent that I worked very closely with and consider a friend of mine named Cindy. Um, at the time, she and I, she found the house for me was in a good area, but I will say that the lesson learned there was that we just put, I don't think we put too much into it, but we just thought that it would sell for a little bit more.
Okay . Okay. So far as the contractors, it was at a 50/50 split from the beginning to the end. [Inaudible]
Yes, it was. So it was , uh , with my dad and I, the 50 split from the beginning to the end. Now I will say I did a lot of, I did a lot of work. Like I , um, laid some tile. Um, I also did some of the painting, so I did some of the work with that house as well. But from a monetary standpoint, it was 50, 50.
Okay. How long did it take for you to rehab the property?
We were on a pretty tight schedule and so it took us about two months.
That's not bad.
Right. Yep . I'm about to say it was a really cute house. Um , if you're familiar with Chattanooga. Um, it was near Memorial hospital and it was , um, in a really, there was just not a lot of work that needed to be done. All we had to do was really just some superficial things, like put some shutters on it , um, redo the bathrooms and not completely, you know, just like tile. Uh , kitchen needed some new cabinets, the floors, we refinished the floors.
And so again, it was just minor things and we put up a fence because there was a house like near it that we were trying to give it just like a little bit more privacy and block out some of the things around it. So we put up a fence as well. I will say that the main thing with that, at the time copper was high, so we ended up, that was a lesson learned too. So , um, the HPAC system, someone ended up stealing the copper out of it. So I pretty much had , we had to pay for that twice.
Okay. Okay. So that was a bit, so, okay. Okay. So going from that first deal and then to where you are now, where do you think you've evolved?
For me as a woman and I have to bring it up since it's international women's day today, I think I've involved evolved , excuse me, as far as just having more confidence in myself as I look back a lot of deals that I've done in the past. And I started with my dad then with some friends. Um , I think that in the beginning I was a little bit afraid to do something by myself and I've evolved in that. Um, I'm not afraid.
The land deal that I was talking about, I did actually seek a partnership then, but it just didn't work out. And so I ended up doing it on my own and it was pretty scary because that was like the first thing that I had done on my own besides buy my own personal house. And , um , and so I feel like I've evolved just by being a little bit more confident. And I think that's very important for women.
Feeling confident in our instincts and also feeling confident enough sometimes just to venture out on our own. And even if you fail, it's okay because you've learned.
That's true. That's very true. So this confidence that, that now that you have, and I even see it in you, I mean it has, I would say evolves you to a person now that has really stepped outside of a comfort zone and you're pretty much defining your own real estate terms because you're the only person that I know that is building your own rental properties now.
So now you started out, like you said, being partners with other people and now you're calling all the shots, finding the land, choosing the house, choosing the tenant I made . So how, how, what made you decide to do that when there's like existing properties all over the place, but instead of you saying, nah, I don't want that, I'm just going to build my own. Like what, what made you come to this?
Well, so I've decided [inaudible] has decided to really start working on my retirement and an end to do that. I want it to have more than one stream of income, you know, just like not just have 401k or even depend on social security. So I decided that I would like some rental properties. I bought one and it was an existing property , um , very cute house but more than 30 years old.
And what I learned from that experience was, you know, with older homes, sometimes you have issues with electrical , um, typically you will have issues with plumbing. Um, so there's just a lot of issues. Um, the other thing that I was looking for there was just a certain area of town because it appears to me that if you can buy homes where the school systems are pretty good, then typically , um , you get a different um, type of tenant. And then also it's a little bit easier to rent.
So that compile combined with not wanting to have like a lot of problems with the age tome . I started like looking for something a little bit newer. But then as I began to look, I couldn't find anything , um , for the price I wanted and in the area I wanted. And one day when I was driving around, I noticed this guy was selling some houses in the area that I wanted.
But after I kind of this my investigations, I was like, huh, he actually built, you know , those houses and now he's selling them for almost, you know , double the amount. And that's when it dawned on me, I was like, you know, why don't I just build my own rental property? And then from there I was like, cause at least I can get the area I want and then I can build something new and I don't have to worry about all the issues. And that's when I've started looking for the land.
And um, went from there. I want to say that I think there's pros and cons to both approaches, but I feel comfortable with that decision because based on what I'm looking for in a house and tenants , um , if particularly if I'm trying to buy a house in this particular area that I like in Chattanooga , um , if I were to buy that house, I would still end up paying more. So I'm building for a little bit cheaper than what I would have to buy brand new.
Okay. So those are pretty much the cons. So I mean the pros actually what you just named because you're able to make, you have full total control of where your , your ability, right on the school systems, the price point, the neighborhood a hundred percent control. So what did you find with a cons and doing this? So there's not too many people doing it, so it's gotta be some cons to it that makes you exceptional to be able to take on this risk.
Right. I'll say , um , my lesson learned was ensuring that , um , you, and you're like the builder that you and the builder are on the same page. Um, I wouldn't say that is a con, but you do have to make sure that you find the right builder also is time. You know, it takes time to build a home. Whereas, you know , if I were to go out and find a rental home to purchase, I probably could do that much faster.
So those would be the top two kinds. Now you , this is not your full time job, you are in a manager of supply chain. So how did you manage doing all of this at the same time of handling a full time job? Like what is your day to day look like? A Monday through Friday and even on your weekends while you were building these homes?
Right. So when I'm building [inaudible] so I have, yeah, I have a nine to five. That's right . Pretty involved and typically I'm at work anywhere from eight until six o'clock at night. Um, however, after work, that's when I'm spending like a lot of time either talking to people, talking to the builder, picking things out, or meeting people at different places. I'm very rarely because no, very rarely would I have time to do anything [inaudible] at lunch.
But typically it was just always after work, which makes for, you know, just extremely long days because if I'm not getting, if I'm getting off at six, that means I'm probably not getting home until seven or eight o'clock. And then weekends of course, you know, are just fool with, you know, trying to fit in everything that I can from picking items out to go into the house if there's people there.
Because sometimes some people don't work no throughout , um, during the weekend, but just throughout the week. But I , one thing for sure I had to check and especially when they were in the building process, I would go over there every day just to look at the progress to see what was done. I made a lot of phone calls after work in regards to, you know , just checking up on things and getting on the same page , um , with the builder and project manager.
Okay. So you mentioned your builder, your project manager, who else was on your team in order to make this your first project when you were building from the ground up work?
That's it really. I'm sad the builder, I mean he had a project manager that he hired and so I would interact with him more so than the builder on a daily basis. And then my soul , of course, he would always like help me out if I wasn't like available to stop by, you know, he would stop by and , um, also talk to me and my mom occasionally too . You know, she'll help out by doing the same thing by stopping by as well.
So did you have to also handle like the subcontractors or this general manager just took care of all of that and they did everything.
He took care of all that and did everything. I know a lot of people asked me, well, why don't you just build it yourself? I'm like, well, I work and I don't have time. That's the , yeah , that's the reason why I went a person, a builder that could handle everything for me.
That's a lot. Um , for me personally, I don't know if I could give that most responsibility and maybe I'm, I have to, I'm a control freak. I have to be there. Like I did my last flip, I took off from selling real estate so I could be here every single day for the flip. How did you, when you said you vetted your general contractor, like what, what were you looking for?
What were the rubrics or what were the decisions that let you know this was a good one to work with and trust with like far as your money and the time and your deadline to get the tenant in place? Like how did you decide this is going to be the contractor cause there's many of them out there. So how do you know this one can handle this responsibility while you're at a full time job? Cause that's huge.
It is . The land that I picked is kind of an obscure piece of land and this particular builder had, has experienced and um , developing neighborhoods. So I knew that, you know , he would have the experience that I was looking for as far as , um , developing that piece of land for that particular house.
Also. Um , I had worked with him before on the flip and um, so I felt comfortable with him and then he has built several homes so I knew his work and I thought that he would do a good job and that's the reason why.
Okay. Knife. That is great. That is great. So once the house got complete, did you stay on schedule? Like were you, did you guys meet, did you meet your , uh, your deadline in order to get the tenant in place? Like how did that go? Like dealing with the seasons and weather?
Yes. So if anyone, if any of your viewers are familiar with Tennessee, then they will know. We haven't gotten so much rain over the past two years. And because of the rain, we were behind schedule probably about three months. So we will be finished in may and we actually ended up finishing well, so it was just two months. Yeah. And we actually ended up finishing in July. Okay. So we were about two months off schedule , which isn't a lot, but we just had a lot of rain in February of last year.
Very similar to this year. Um, that impacted the schedule.
Okay. So three months behind schedule. Like, so how did this work? Cause if someone is interested in how in doing this you get the house completely done. So do you wait till it's maybe in the first phase, second phase, or when did you put the sign in the yard looking for tenants or you know, as soon as it was done. Did you have a tenant in place or did you wait, how did that process go?
Well, and I'll say this how people as soon as well, as soon as we started building, I know there was just interest because, and that just, that made me feel very good. And um, yeah, as soon as we start building, there was just interests . Like people would call me, I talked to two or three people before the house was complete. They , the timing just wasn't right. And then when the house completed. So I did talk to the project manager who has experienced being a property manager as well.
And I was like, Hey, you think I should just put a sign up? And he was like, no. He was like, don't do that. And that was some very good advice. He was like, don't do that. He was like, because if you put the sign up then people will know the house is empty and that's not always a good idea. So I didn't do that. So I immediately, now I'm listed on Zillow and
Once it was done did you immediately put it on Zillow?
Yes, when the house was done I put it on Zillow. And there were some like little things we were still going through our punch list. So there were some little things that I'm the project manager and the builder had to finish, but it was pretty much, it was like 98% complete. And so I put it on Zillow at that point and I kid you not candle. I was showing it to at least five to seven people a day. Wow. And it was rented in two weeks.
That is awesome. Wow. So once you saw the need of, well the demand for your house, did you increase the rent? How did you determine your rent rate?
So I looked at some of the apartments in the area and to see how much three bedroom apartments were renting for . And I was like, well, because in this particular area, three bedroom apartments are renting for about 1500 1500 plus. And I was like, well, I was like, this is actually better than an apartment because you know, you have your own space, you have a garage, et cetera . I just did it a little bit, not like maybe a little bit cheaper than the apartment rate, not too much.
And then the project manager that I mentioned, I bounced it off of him and he thought that was a good idea as well. And I'd know, but I didn't increase it. So once I put it out there, I stuck with the right , um , that I had on there.
Okay. So let me ask you this. Did you hire the project manager to be your property manager?
No, I did not cause that was another advantage. I thought about it. But that was another one of my advantages to having a new house. I'm like my other house, which is older, as I mentioned previously, I have a property manager because typically there's always something coming up with it and I need some handle that. But with this house, nothing really has happened. I mean there was this like a few little key kinks, you know, without someone living in it.
But they were minor and once all of that got worked out, you know, it's been, it's been very good.
That's awesome. That is awesome. So does that give you more fever to just find another piece of land now and you're going to build the exact same house, with the exact same builder and the project manager and do it all over again? Or what are you going to do differently or what would you do differently since you've completed that one?
Okay, so I am, I always look at ways to optimize my cost in, you know, with a project. So with that being said, it's all the land. Um, it was surveyed for two homes. I am going to build another house and I'm about to start that process soon . I am starting with a different builder.
This time I decided to um , just go with a different price, structure and model and I will say, you know, again with it being an international women's day, I want it to um, try like a female project manager and builder just to see. So I'm just wanting to know , give another female an opportunity. Um , I'm very passionate about that. I'm working with other females also. Very, I'm a diverse person, person of color.
My um, previous builder, you know, he was a person of color too, so very passionate about that too.
So when you said you're going to go with a different model, how is your model going to be different on this new home that you're building compared to the last home?
Well, so I've, I learned, I learned a lot with the first home. So as far as the, the contract, I will have more language in it in regards to like price overruns. I'm also,
Okay, so that's something I haven't heard. What is price overruns?
Well, if something goes over the budget, like yeah , uh , yeah, just have, I was, so after I did this build, and I probably should have done this before, I started talking to other people who had built homes. Um , there , there's someone that I worked with, he's built like three or four homes per like , um , for his to live in.
And I asked him about some of the contracts and he just said, one of the things that , um , he has is if something goes over by one of the line items, then that the builder, if it's like over 10%, then the builder has to, you know, like talk to him about it and agree. And so just those types of things, I would have that in the contract this time. Also, I'm having like a scheduled time to have meetings on a weekly basis, just maybe having just a tad bit more structure.
Um , because Campbell, to your point , um, I , I don't think that , um , I guess I've worked in working my job and I've learned that the more autonomy, you know, you can give people the better. And so maybe, I don't know if I , it was like too much. I was trying to not be controlling. I guess that's the word I'm looking for, but I do think that there's a balance. I'll say that's true.
That's true. So are you going to give more freedom to the next builder that you work with as far as design and ideas and as long as she stays within the budget or are you going to be still in control of that?
I will still be in control of it . That's all I can say. So last time I think it probably was a little bit more freedom this time probably a little less and I'll let the contract determine. I'll put more in the contract.
So were you able to stay within budget even being in that three months past your deadline? Did you put that in the budget considering the weather and Chattanooga and the first one?
No, I didn't. Yeah .
Yeah. That's what I noticed when I talked to other investors is that we always have that conversation of did you plan for this to happen? Did, did you expect this to happen? Because what got me on my last one was , um , termites. That devastated me when I bought the house. They didn't exist somehow in between the time I've had it to where we were getting ready to rehab, they came out of nowhere and it just messed up my budget even though I didn't plan for that. I plan for other things to happen.
Right . The termites, it's threw me off and I was like, wait a minute. Yes, there was always, so always an investor has a story of like, this is what came out of nowhere. I didn't know. So I never even considered whether, but now since even Georgia has had an a tremendous amount of weather , it feels like Seattle or winter was crazy with rain every single day. It's like you need to take this in consideration, the next flip you do, because weather can play a part.
Because had I been rehabbing there in all this weather, there was no way we would've been on schedule because it shuts down everything it does. Yep . So I can, I could only imagine. So, so this time going into the next house that you're building next to the one you already have, you're going to put in the weather contingency, the weather budget. So
I probably will not, I mean, the rain delayed me, however, it didn't impact, I mean it was time, but it didn't really impact my money. Um , the things, huh? That's great. Yeah. I might say it was time, but it really didn't impact money or anything. The things that I would add would just be , um , just like the price overruns for particular line items if it's over a certain amount. I'm just having to understand more. So like for there to just be a stop before there's a move forward with it.
So we have the opportunity to talk about it and maybe reassess if that's the right step to take. But yeah, that would be the only thing. Other than that , um , I think the build was, you know , very good quality.
Um , it's gorgeous. Thank you. How gorgeous. So when you, so are you going to go bigger on the next house or is it going to be smaller? I'm actually going smaller. Okay.
Yes. So I decided to go smaller on the next house and more of a wooded urban feel. So I probably will not clear out clear as much land. I will be more wooded and Kevin is but not quite like a cabin and I probably will go furnished just so I have a couple of options with it. I'm kind of marketing towards like a professional who is in Chattanooga for a longterm project more so than the traditional renter.
Nice. So you do have options because you can definitely go from that professional to an Airbnb to a festival in Chattanooga like the Riverbend . Oh that's genius. Genius. Cause I don't think it's too many in Chattanooga that are doing that. So you definitely are going to have a need. That's awesome Melanie. That, okay. So let me ask you this. So what is your ultimate goal through real estate?
My ultimate goal is to retire. We able to retire from my nine to five and have another stream of income. Um , I'm a little unique in that, you know, it's just my husband and I, we don't have kids and so awesome by real estate investments could be what I use to. Um, that's my going to be my longterm care as well. You know, if I, as I get older, if I need to , um, sell property to contribute to towards my own term care. So that's really my ultimate goal.
And then no , if I do have some property left, then I would like to , um, you know, leave a legacy for my cousins or I'm know other people in my family. I love it. I love it. We have similar goals. We talk about it all the time too . I know.
So what do you think is the key to your success in real estate?
The key I go, so going with my instincts, the older I've gotten, I've realized, you know, like kind of that no , the feeling in your gut, if something doesn't feel right, don't move forward. If something feels right, you pray about it, can't get it off of your mind, then you need to move quickly.
Hmm .
Yeah. And just learning from my mistakes. I mean I , I have learned that a lot of times we have this, you know , we expect perfection in everything. At least I do. And then , um , I would get so caught up in, you know, if something didn't go perfect or if it wasn't exactly right. But then I've realized that that's just for me to learn and to do better the next time.
What do you think is the biggest mistake you've made in real estate?
I think being afraid to do things on my own sooner. Wow. And maybe, and it may be missing out on some other deals just by not taking, you know , some, some chances.
Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. So what do you think life of real estate? Pretty much, cause like you've been involved with real estate investing since, you know , you were a kid. We were kids. What you think are your five rules that you have established for yourself?
My five rules I've established for myself, as I mentioned: go, go with your, go with your gut. Also for me being in it for the long game. I'm not saying I won't try flipping again, but I don't, that's not me. Uh , my rather whether it's land, whether it's a house or whatever, whatever. I've had much more success with just holding something, even my stocks . So I think I'm just better at the holding. And so you stick to what's successful? Yes. Okay. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, that's true though.
Um, I would say , um, put your own, put your own Mark on it or your own spin on it. Um , for me I like no kind of a smaller cuter house, but then you know, there's always like, cause I was talking to my husband, he was just like, well small but with flare , so whatever you're flaring, put the flair on it.
Okay. Your flares, what have been your flares?
Well, I mean I think the tie , all of that was one thing with the house. You know, everybody commented , um , what the towel looked like. And a friend of mine who does flip, he was like, Hey, I want you to know I , I decided to use some of that towel too . So that, that was one of my, and number four I would say is I would say is just pray about it. Um, there's been , uh , all my deals, I have prayed about it, I've walked the land and even prayed over the land. And I think that's important.
And then lastly, don't be afraid of the obscure. Um, I think a lot of times those are the best deals because people don't see the potential. But then sometimes you have to create it as you were just saying in candle. Cause once you created , then a lot of times people will follow and say, Oh my gosh, you know, like the land, I'm, I'm not going to say it was like the best piece of land in the whole world or anything like that.
But when it was created, a lot of people would say, wow, I didn't know that was back there, or that type of thing. So don't be afraid of the ops gear . Don't be afraid of different.
Nice. So if you had $25,000 right now, what would you do with it?
If I had 25,000 right now, what would I do with it? I would, I would buy me a, a piece of land somewhere. Love it. Is there a certain area where you already know this word ? And if I had it, I would buy right here. Do you already have that? Not yet. I'm looking because I'm looking for something that I can build like a multiuse , um, multi-use facility on that could be a living area and um , commercial as well. It's taken a little bit, right? Yeah , we were talking about that.
So take a little more time and patience to find that. Yeah, I can only imagine, but you will, we put it out there in the universe is going to show up. It's waiting on you. So what book are you reading right now? So I have to admit, I read a lot of fiction books, so , um , I'll go with two books. So my fiction book I'm reading now is called such a fun age. And me and a friend were reading it together and we actually plan on having dinner to talk about it.
But it is about a young , um , African American girl who's trying to figure out her career. So it's pretty interesting. As far as the professional book, I've just finished reading speed of trust, which is very good. Um , to me it was good professionally and personally. Um, it just talks about things that you can do as an individual to build trust and then also what erodes trust.
And I think that as an investor , um , business person, a professional and that again and even personally, I think that , um , is a book that I would recommend to anyone because I think that we always can do better , um, as people at communicating and also building trust too because a lot of building trust has to do with communication and understanding people. Thank you. Thank you. Well of course. Thank you for inviting me. Candle, I'm loving this podcast.
I know that you will be able to interview great people and also really bless your audience.
That was my best friend. Melanie, if you want to know more about Melanie and how to build a rental property, just go to my website, CandleLockett.com/podcast and you'll be able to leave a comment and Melanie and I will respond. That's all for now. Stay lit.