Lucifer 213 + 214 "A Good Day to Die" & "Candy Morningstar"

This week we're talking about 2.13 and 2.14 , a good day to die and Candy Morningstar , two of my friends , two of my very favorite episodes ever Ever . I have watched them so many times . These are some good ones . So well , why don't you start us off so much to talk about ?

So , in a good day to die , there's a little moment at the end that I actually wanted to talk to you about , which is when , after everything's happened , lucifer is leaving and the goddess is saying like doesn't it mean anything that I went to hell for you ? And he's like too little , too late .

And he said I am done being a pawn between you and dad and as children of a divorce that was not contentious at the time of the divorce but got so years later . I so resonated with that . That's like I am drawing a line .

I am done , do not bring me into your bullshit anymore Felt so real and it made me feel like you know again , joe and LD , we know they're about our age .

Our generation was the , you know divorced kids generate right , in part because no fault divorce became something to do in the 70s all over the United States , and so I'm like somebody has been through this . Yeah , yeah , just for my own personal experience .

Again , it was not so much mom and dad , but after dad passed away , and the level of shenanigans from his wife , his widow . His widow was a piece of work that's a word for her and I decided you know very specifically , she was using dad's money as a stick to beat us with , yeah , and I was like you know what she can have it , I don't care crap .

Yeah , Because I refuse to let this awfulness that stemmed from when I was three year old Right Splash onto my own children .

Why are they still obsessed with each other ? Yes , yes , yeah , I'm with you . So the like the goddess is very sympathetic in some moments . Like one of the things that really liked is when she meets Linda and Linda says , oh , your God's wife . And she's like I don't want to be defined by my ex-husband . Like , right on , I appreciate that .

Except that then everything she does is about him .

I cry every single time that that was that one line . I'm pretty sure I'm worthless if I can't be of service Tearing up just saying that and doesn't that sound like a men a deal ? Absolutely , and even that when they confront each other .

When Lucifer confronts a men a deal , it's in the second episode , it's in candy morning , sorry , but when he confronts a men a deal and is like I'm tired of being his pawn and men a deal is like me too , and Lucifer is like don't compare . Which .

Like I get what Lucifer is saying , but I also really identify with a men a deal who's like all I've ever wanted is for him to be proud of me , like , yeah , it hits me , it hits me . It gets to something very real and very human . We know it is very clear that the goddess loves her children very , very much , but she's also clearly a narcissist .

Yeah , it's not an unconditional love , exactly exactly . So the way that she responds when he's like all right , I have to get down to hell , and she's like I refuse to be part of this , that's one of those parenting moments that I can see being really difficult to navigate , in that your child is bounded and determined to do something extremely dangerous .

They have a good reason for it , but you don't want to support them putting themselves in danger , and so I can see an argument being made for good parenting in either direction supporting or leaving . She does come back . She does come back . And I have an overthinking thing , please do . It bothers me about this . Actually it's not human related .

It's like in the rules of the celestial or whatever . They broke their rules when that body died and then they brought it back . Charlotte Richards' soul should have come back into it .

The goddess should not have been able to inhabit that body again , like we saw when they first introduced the goddess and she was like in all the crime , the gang member and the guy who get hit by the buzz and all of it , like I think they even said only once right , like mm-hmm . And I know like it would have ruined the whole show if that had happened .

And so I get why they were like maybe they just won't notice . But since we're rewatching and overthinking , that shouldn't have worked . They should not have been able to bring the goddess back with the DFib . Like it shouldn't have worked . Sorry y'all , I just sorry .

Like they because it's not like they were gonna recast Trisha Helfer , right , right , because that's what they would have had to do Like they would have had to have that body die or come back as Charlotte Richards which happens , you know , in a future season , whatever future episode and then have a new person be the goddess , like it would have been a mess .

Like logistically , I get that and also , and for the storytelling , I get why they were willing to sacrifice that piece of breaking the rules .

Because seeing the Uriel hell loop , like shift when the goddess was introduced to it , and that sort of NPC Uriel , that popular character Uriel , like shift when it was her hell loop , like I think that was actually really powerful and really interesting about the way that hell works .

Another small thing to you and I have talked about this it should have been in the church , like the hell loop should have been in the place . I mean , you gave me some headcanon that like he's the king of hell and so whatever , and also maybe they couldn't get that set again . Yeah , but well .

And the other thing is like they had to have something to draw him in there .

Based on that , uriel could have drawn him in in the place where he died Right With his voice instead of with piano Killing him softly , he was playing , killing him softly . Yes Again , like on points like killing him softly or killing me softly , but I'm sure that was just a logistical like we can get that set . Agreed , agreed , all right , that's fine .

I do want to point out that illness and like cancer and poisoning and stuff like that , in TV shows with gorgeous people always starts with a nosebleed Always Interesting . I never noticed that .

And it's similar to how , if someone gets beat up in and you'll see this with Tom Cruise all the time if someone gets beat up or goes through you know something that should cause some physical damage , they get a cut right here , yeah , on the bridge of their nose . It's because we need them to still look attractive .

But something that's clear , that's wrong and that's speaking of nosebleed , the moment with Bert , where she is , you know , drawing him upstairs , and he's just like , so grossed out by her nosebleed , yeah , like , I feel like that so fits with who he is , where he's just like , you know , whatever Mine , yeah , yep , you're actually a human , a human being with , yeah

, yeah , yeah , yeah , the moment she starts to be a human being and not just a vagina with legs . Yeah , yeah , I mean he does say you OK there , which at first is just like , but that's just how you speak . Not actual concern , not actual concern . Yeah , that's just how he alerts her to the fact that you know you're being gross .

So , yeah , stop , stop being gross . Yeah , totally the artist , uh-huh , the clown , our main paintings .

Okay , it is always very interesting to me to see artists and art dealers presented in media , because we grew up in an art gallery Uh-huh , because I've been in an art gallery for almost 40 years Now , I know nothing about using art as a cover for right for illicit activities For selling drugs and illicit things , right .

But you know , that is really interesting to me because art does not have any specific inherent value . Mm-hmm , like a car does , like you can't look up a Kelly Blue Book of right of Manet , you know . So that is always interesting to me to see that world . And then the fact that all he wants is for someone to take his art seriously .

Some of us have , like , we're given a starter kit , yes , but we all actually have the capacity , absolutely , and we all have something Interesting to say yeah , on a canvas or whatever medium . And so it's like , why is this your thing to say , yeah , yeah , the clown mermaids . I would love to see him on the couch with Linda . Yeah , right , right , yeah .

You know , that whole , that whole scene actually was like when Dan tells him to follow his lead but then Dan like loses it and he's like , am I still following your lead ? Like what's happening ? It just really funny because it's Lucifer , like genuinely trying , like he just can't get it right , he just can't .

And then when when he was like you could do that the whole time Well , of course , why did you let me get beat up I was like I was going to follow your lead . Yeah , this is super serious . I'm like , yeah , yeah , it's really funny . Yeah , we get a little backstory from Ella , and this one too with her brother .

This , this episode really does it like , hits a lot of things . It's really interesting . I guess it's just for us , like in terms of the storytelling . But at no point does anybody say to Lucifer like just because dad , like flick the first domino , doesn't make what you're feeling fake , you know , it doesn't make it a sham .

Yeah , no one ever says that to him . I mean , I guess I feel like we are supposed to be feeling that because I so . Notably , he does not talk to Linda about it until after he's already married to candy . Married to candy and all of that who he talks to about it ? Or other celestials who do see God as as God has fingers and all the pies .

So , yeah , she knew that he would react that way once he found out that and I don't know that she thinks that he's wrong , right Cause she has the lowest possible opinion of God .

And so like , yeah , of course he did this on purpose and this was you know it's not not real somehow because , because , because it came from him , yeah , and whereas a Menendil , I think he's such a mess right now himself .

Well , and actually , now that I'm thinking about it , he doesn't talk to a Menendil about it in that way , until after he's come back , a Menendil has been like stalking Chloe .

So and a Menendil does make some important points , right , like mom , yes , she hurt you , but she was doing the best she could to try and protect you , which , based on what you just said , I think you should be able to understand Like so , so you're right .

When he only talks to Celestials about it and they more or less agree , and also , like a Menendil is like why are you , what are you doing to Chloe ? Why am I protecting her ? If I thought you , actually you know all that stuff . So , yeah , I guess I think that makes sense . I think that does make sense .

Well , the other thing to remember , like about Lucifer , is if you think of him as like an overgrown teenager who entirely defines himself by his rebellion against his father , right ?

So he , you know , has enjoyed this hedonistic lifestyle all this time and he's feeling real emotions for the first time and like you see that that , like the way that he deals with it , is how a teenager deals with it , like he ghosts her and Mary's Candy Morningstar , or Candy Fletcher actually is her , her , uh , actually unmarried name unmarried name , yes , which

we don't find out until season three .

But and so he goes on a bender and Mary's Mary's , someone else , telling himself like well , this is , this is for her own protection , right , because she didn't have a choice , and blah , blah , blah , blah , and then he misses her he misses her comes back and that is like such an immature way of dealing with all of this , good intentioned though it may be ,

right , right , but it just shows like again he's , he's , he's an overgrown teenager . Let's talk about Candy and Chloe actually . So I want to start with Chloe , because I know you really want to talk about Candy . So I think I'm going to save that the best for last .

I think in my first watching , because I binged them like I almost , I think I I kind of forgot that Chloe really was invested in a relationship with him . You know , like cause I just I kind of it happens sort of so quickly and then immediately , like he redirects .

But in this rewatch , seeing the last time they spoke that we saw , he said she , she was so happy to see that he was okay after the poison thing and he said this is real , isn't it right ? And then she's poisoned and they that like fills , everything that feels fills , all the attention is that she might die .

She knows he did something to help save her and Then he disappears , mm-hmm . And the last thing that they talked about besides the poisoning was this is real , isn't it ? Mm-hmm . And like I don't , I think in my first watch through . I missed the depth of that Abandonment and betrayal , mm-hmm .

Like I knew she was annoyed and she had a right to be annoyed , but I'm not sure I really felt the full depth of it . Yeah , which also makes sense of Dan's behavior In terms of like telling Lucifer where she is and like Dan recognizes how much Lucifer means to her Mm-hmm , even though he's not a Lucy fan .

So I don't know , I'm just really sitting with that kind of Sadness and betrayal and rejection . Mm-hmm , in this round , that I didn't , I don't think I saw in my first . Yeah , I think I just kind of skipped over it . Yeah , she , she often kind of kept him at arms length and I just kind of forgot that she had actually come in close .

Yes , yeah , thinking about that betrayal After having almost died Mm-hmm , oh my god , that is Brutal and she never knows . He literally died to save her Mm-hmm . Yeah , and and , by the way , we talked briefly about it but Ellis , in that tell loop , like the , just the anguish every time , like it's , he's yeah , yeah , he's amazing .

Also , I do want to just quick , like I love that maze , like it's , like who wants to kill me and maze and many deal are both like Then she can't do it , but then she can't do it and I Love that moment . And then , like you see that , compared to like when the goddess Doesn't even get the finish or sentence oops and then .

And so like when Lucifer's like oh , bloody hell , yeah , which I'm like I'm pretty sure that's not how it works .

I love candy so much , so there's a couple things like over thinking it . Lucifer keeps referring to her as an exotic dancer , but that's not what she . She's a singer . So , and I'm wondering if that they just changed it between now and when they did the next . When they bring her back ? Yeah , probably because they were gonna get a third season .

So , yeah , yeah , that's true , although her episode in the third season was one of the additional episodes they planned for season two and then moved on to see , oh , okay , okay , so maybe they did know . So I don't know , I don't know what , what was going on with that , because I'm just like , is that technically a lie ?

But okay , the other thing is , when I first watched this , I was just like I was not really married to her , and then , when it turned out , yeah , he really did it I was like , well , no , of course , because if they were just faking it he couldn't lie . So In he , he had to go through with it , even though he says he takes marriage seriously .

I'm like what , what ? So ?

You know that's the skin tight dressing , that cleavage , the , you know bright pink bubble gum . You know all of that . The , the high-pitched voice , is something that she is putting on and I think a lesser show that would be the like Chloe was wrong about her because she was putting all that on . But that's not all .

It is even in that like milia , like that that mean of of being like a dits , she still is making it clear that they're underestimating her when she is the one who recognizes that . The divorce mediator , right , mannequin hair , mannequin hair , and I Just love that .

I love that this is yet another way that the show is making it clear that there are so many ways to be a strong intelligence . Mm-hmm competent woman , mm-hmm , and that's you know . You can wear skin tight dresses if you want and still be worthy . And that they make it abundantly clear how wrong Chloe is to judge her .

Well , chloe also sees that and she does , she does by the end . It is genuine .

But she sees that candy cares about him and it's genuine , if not in the romantic sense , it's like that they , they are friends , they're real friends and she really was concerned about him , even though she still had the bubblegum girl voice and all of that on when she , when she came to check on him . I appreciate that .

That they show Chloe seeing that she's wrong . Also the insightfulness of like , yeah , he's totally messed up . Didn't you just go through something ? Totally bananas ? Yeah , exactly , exactly .

Actually , there's two moments where we see women realize just how messed up he is right , because when Trisha Helfer says like if this is real , then only a totally damaged soul would make such a choice , and then I , I , I , he really is like well , yeah , yeah . And when she's like , no , he really is broken .

And I mean Candy says it in just a matter of fact way . It's not like a epiphany for her , the way that it is for the goddess . For Candy it's like , yeah , he's really messed up . Yeah Well , but it is an epiphany for Chloe . It is an epiphany for Chloe , you're right , and I think it's totally fair too .

I mean , having almost died , it's hard for you to see from the other person's perspective .

Yeah , yeah , well , and also when you're that close to it , I think that's all like both the goddess and Chloe like are just so close to it , whereas Candy is sort of an outsider , like she's totally known him a matter of two weeks and she's like , yeah , you do totally mess up , yeah , yeah , which also makes a certain amount of like it .

Just like it jibes , like it . It's plausible that an outsider would be able to see it immediately . In ways that people are close , who are wrapped up in the brokenness they do .

One of my favorite tropes in Candy Morning Star is where two people are talking about one thing but they're actually talking about something else , which , when they're , when they're with the meaty right and like she's pretending , but at the same time she is not Right , right and the meaty is like no name calling , even if it's about yourself , and Chloe's like wait ,

what ? Yeah , yeah , and that's I mean some of it is just the dramatic irony of it , cause we know that they're talking about something real Right Right , the meaty eater has no idea I personally adore dramatic irony . It's like one of my favorite things . I think it's why I like like this show and vampires and like I love being in on the secret .

I feel like I'm like less of a muggle because I know about the wizards or I shouldn't use that anymore . She's a turf , but you know you know what I mean , like that , I think that's why I've always enjoyed the vampire genre and this show too , where we know that he really is and there's something like we're in on the joke or we're in on the secret .

I love that . Yeah , I , I , I totally feel you . And so in those those , those small vignettes where that happens , it's just satisfying and fun .

Yes , yeah , and particularly as you're watching , wondering how Lucifer is going to respond , cause we're in on like multiple things right , cause we're in on stuff that the mediator's not in on , we're in on stuff that Chloe's not in Right , exactly , and so like seeing how Lucifer is going to respond to things without lying but without telling the whole truth either ,

I so enjoy that and I so enjoy those like where people are talking about each other fictionally but they're actually talking about each other in fact .

Yeah , so yeah , that's a favorite scene of mine when I've watched multiple times , and it's interesting to me that , instead of just going as herself , like cause she could have , she dresses up as candy with the pink on the bottom the hair and everything , yeah , yeah , Everything , and it's like what I mean like you had to introduce yourself as candy , but why did

you have to do that ? And that . That's an interesting look into Chloe's psyche as well . The other thing that I that I love about candy is the scene with her and the goddess .

But it's also like the way that she responds is like also kind of genuine , where she's like I know that you want what's best for your son and like I'm kind of your daughter now too , and you know , and and like there's , there's something very genuine even within the fakery .

That is just lovely and I just so appreciate candy for showing like she's like the opposite of Lucifer in some ways , because she she lies all the time .

She's kind of a con artist we find out later and she she leans into what people assume about her , which makes her like Lucifer , like he leans into , like people assume he must be lying about being the devil and he's just like I'll go with it . But the way that she operates is so different from the way that Lucifer operates and it's just .

It's a very interesting dynamic that they have . Yeah , and I think the genuine connection to other people is really . It's really interesting that something that , like , lucifer is learning Right , but I think candy actually it's , it's , it's authentic to her . Yes , yeah , and it's part of how she does what she does , like how she fools people .

It's hard , you know whatever , but that that's sort of actual genuine connection between the self and another . Lucifer is just now learning how to do that because of Chloe . Yeah , so I think that's an interesting foil in the way that you just set the two of them up . That's another , another layer of it .

I wish we could have caught up with her at the very end of the of the series , just to you know , see where she ends up , although I'm sure she has an interesting , long , happy life and I I am sure she ends up in heaven .

There are a couple of things that I feel like they do very nicely in both of these episodes , which is set us up for reveals later .

So with Linda , when they're like , oh my God , he's stuck , we need to send someone down to get him out of hell and Maze can't go because she has no soul and Linda is such a therapist , she's like , okay , we're going to table that for later .

Oh , there's this . There's , there's the implication that it was the ring . Oh , there's the implication that , because she says , never caught my honey , paid a shady diamond guy a ton of money for it . I never caught . That that was the implication . Oh , yeah , that's the implication . Wow , am I shifting your head , cannon ?

Right now you are , because you later find out , because I spent like the entire rest of the season going . What the hell did he pay for ? And then you find out next season when we next see Candy Morning Star . Oh , I , totally , I just assumed it was the ring . I didn't even , I didn't give it a second thought .

Wow , I didn't even like , because I thought you were going to see , I thought you were going to talk about Uriel . Now we know what he whispered yes , that too , that too . That's what I thought you were going to talk about . Yeah , yeah , yeah , oh , my goodness , you are like so this is what Head cannon rearranging ?

Well , some of it is like like that's not how you buy a ring , so it just never even occurred to me .

I take things at their word . That's not how you buy diamonds and it like it never even occurred to me that you could buy a diamond that way . And so , like the shady guys , I don't know what I was imagining I mean , like a bachelor's , they were stolen diamonds . I mean , you're so silly . All right , I have three minutes till my next meeting .

Okay , give me your fluff , okay , my fluff . Tom Ellis and Lucifer has a little scar under here that you see Only the only time you ever see . It is a good day to die . And he's like , yeah , like that , and I'm like , I am so curious about that . It is so like interesting and beautiful and I just want to kiss it . And there you have it .

Folks , we have completely overthunk the morning star and a good day to die . Oh , my goodness , I'm sure I'm going to think of other stuff that I wish we'd talked about , but always every single time . Oh , we didn't even talk about the fact . Like what a menadil surely is going to face consequences for what he does in that hospital .

And I'm like , oh yeah , like , yeah , he's a big black dude who was like fighting all the security guys . He's in jail . Yeah yeah , they definitely press charges . Yeah yeah , like in LA . Yeah , the other thing , another fluff Amenity is looking fine . He looks so good in both of these episodes .

Yeah , I think also like they allowed because he's now not an antagonist like DB Woodside is just more relaxed as he's playing him here from from the first season and it's just , it sits well on him . It sits well on him so good . And the like the costuming . And I was looking at his eyes and I'm like he's got .

He's got a little bit too Cause like he's on camera , but it's like a little bit of the , the eyeliner and like make his eyes pop too and I'm just like , I'm like I'm not gonna be able to do this the morning . Star boys are just so creamy . Not that a men's deal has last name . All right , y'all really gotta go .

If you liked this episode , subscribe to keep overthinking with them and visit the show notes for other ways to connect .