Whole-Relationship Red Flags with Julianna Margulies

August thirteen and Sunday August four. That's Calgary. And then I have tons of dates coming up in the fall, starting with Saratoga, California, Niagara Falls, Long Beach, California, Bakersfield, California, Pasa Roblais, California, Wheatland, California, and lots of places in Florida, Tampa, Fort Myers, Daytona Beach, Hollywood, Florida, and the list goes on and on. Oh in San Diego and Riverside, California. So lots of dates in California and Tucson, Colorado. Springs. Anyway,

go to Chelsea Handler dot com for your tickets. I will see you guys all there. These will be the final dates of my Vaccinated and Horny tour, and I can't wait to see all of you in person now that everybody, well most people are vaccinated and officially horny. That's with three ease at the end of Catherine, just in case you didn't know how to spell horny perfect Anyway, I am getting ready to go to Hawaii with our eighteen nieces and nephews. I think it's a team, but

the number keeps increasing every day. I don't know if people are giving birth each day in Joe's family or what, but we have already exceeded the maximum capacity in the house that we've rented. I have seven of my nieces and nephews coming, and then Joe has like twelve, and then some other miscellaneous people will not miscellaneous people friends, but like at additions. So we are about to embark

on a two week vacation with adult children. Wow. That's kind of the dream though, like when I moved to kill the children it is. I'm like, I just want to be the fun aunt who like lives in California and they get to come visit and summer with me. That's all I want. I know, I know, I did you know I was very passionate about that. When I was starting to come up and becoming successful, all I wanted to do was like shower attention and spoil them. And now I don't have that same passion set. I

love to be around them, but I don't. I'm not like I'm but Joe is. Joe has that passion, so he's gonna have to so he'll bring it out in me, which is interesting because he has a kid, so you'd think that most of that energy would go towards just his own No. No, he spreads a love. That's what I love about him is he's not even just about his own kid. He's about he loves watching all the kids together, all the cousins together. You know. So now

we're joining our families. Hopefully we'll see if there are any hookups. Joe's like, you're dirty, He's like, what are you saying. I'm like, well, it's possible. I mean it worked with you two. The girls, the girls in my family are on my side. I'll have boyfriends, so they probably won't be a hook up, but you never know.

There's chemistry. Yeah, anything can happen in Hawaii. It's a romantic setting, exactly my dad once went to Hawaii on like a business trip without my mom and he was like, I will never go back as a one person by myself. It was like it was terrible. He wasn't even heartbroken, and he was like, this is for couples. It's exactly, it is for couples. Our guest today has a book out just came out in paperback. It's called Sunshine Girl,

An Unexpected Life. You know her from her work on e Er, The Good Wife and now the Morning show on Apple TV pull Us. She is an Emmy, Golden Globe and sag Ward winner. Please welcome Julianna Margulis. Hi. Julianna, Hi, Chelsea. I'm so happy to see you in person, so happy. The last time we saw each other was at the Beacon, at my show at the Beacon. Yeah, you came to the show. Thank you for coming. I've always always loved you. I've always loved you admired your work. We've met over

the years at different social events, different boyfriends houses. I say boyfriends concerning me because you've been married for quite some time now to your lover and a half years. Oh that's not that. Actually, I would have thought you were married longer than that. But we've been together sixteen years,

sixteen years, sixteen and a half. But I love your love story, which you talk about in your book Sunshine Girl, which if you haven't read that book already, congratulations on the success of your book, because I know it's been on the New York Times Bestseller for how many weeks. I don't know, Yeah, I don't. I don't know that type of person who would pay attention to that. And I can vouch for her when she says that she means it. I was just happy you guys sent a

car for me today. I thought I was going to be on the subwhere you have a very like a thrifty mentality. Regardless of how much success you've had over the years, with all of your shows with e Er, with The Good Wife, with everything in between, you still act like you are scraping pennies together. It is bizarre. I mean literally, just before I got here, I sent my this. I hate saying assistant, but I sent my assistant on vacation because he needed it. He really need

a vacation. My husband's in London, my kids in school, and my housekeeper. After reading your book, I was laughing at myself because I have a housekeeper who comes twice a week, and Tuesday she comes, and I thought, how am I going to walk the dog before I get in the car to come to see Chelsea. And then I literally went. I went up to her. She's been my housekeeper for twenty years, and I said, Sam, any chance you want to make some extra cash? And I

handed her money to go and walk my dog. But I hadn't even thought of that until I was like putting on makeup, going I'm not gonna be able to walk the dog. First of all, my housekeeper takes my dog every time I leave, which is I haven't been home in three weeks. We never even discussed it. She takes both dogs, and she has full full she has She is their mother and she has full control over

their schedules. And sometimes when I come back into town, if because I've been on tour for the better part of a year, if I come back on a Saturday, I have maybe a couple of days to spend with my baby bees. She won't even bring them back for me on the Saturday. She'll bring them back on Monday when she comes back. When she comes back to work is when she brings the dogs suits. Yeah, whatever suits her, and we have a power dynamic that is in her favor. So I have no say in this situation. But it's

so good. Yeah, and I mean it should be a television show, all right now, Well, actually, that's funny you mentioned that we're making it into a television show. It should be. We're making my last book into a show. For Peacock life will be the death of me. And a big part of the story is my cleaning lady and my dog's relationship because she's been my cleaning lady for fifteen years and she calls me baby Pig. That's her nickname for me, and so a lot of my

friends also call me baby pig Pig. It's a long story. It involves chocolate nutclusters, but we can get into that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we can get into that at another time. I want to talk a bit about your book because we have some commonalities that I think are going to surprise you. One is our love for Carly Simon. I also love Carly Simon. Yeah. I grew up with her son and Ben and Sally, her son and daughter. I used to hang out with Sally and there was a bunch of girls.

I hung out with them Martha's Vineyard and we would go over to Carly Simon's house and I had never met it. I was probably like eleven twelve years old. I had never met a celebrity, and I remember Carly Simon came out and then James Taylor was always around. But had you listened to her music before you met her? Oh? Yeah, my whole family because of the vineyard, Like Carly Simon

is gospel up there, you know. I mean she should be gospel everywhere, but primarily because she lives on the vineyard, and so our whole family is whiz down with Carly Simon. And I remember going over to her house and I was hanging out with all my girlfriends and they ordered pizza and Carly Simon came out to the pool and she was picking up the pizza and I just was like,

oh my god, no, she can't carry pizza boxes. And I got up and was like grabbing them out of her hands like an idiot, you know, like a sycophan. And I was just a little girl. I'm like, no, no, no, no, I'll carry those for you. And I remember being so so nervous, and then I remember the next time I went over there, I was like, you've got to get to get it together, Like she's this is embarrassing. Mean, while I was a little girl like charmed by it. Yeah, doubtful.

I wasn't that charming. But that we have in common our love for Carly Simon. And then another thing we have in common is being prompt and early for everything, because nobody ever picked you up from school. I mean, I, I got here eight minutes early. I got here, I got here fourteen minutes early. I have to be early. Even if I try to be late, I get somewhere and then I have to sit in the car and wait so I don't look like a dick for getting

there so early. It's the story of my life. That's why I married my husband because he was early to our first date and I was early and embarrassed, and I walked in and he was already at the bar, half a drinking. He's like, I'm gonna marry you. Well, I'm glad that you even went to that dinner party because you weren't going to go to that dinner party. I wasn't going to go. And then you recalled a piece of advice that your father had given you, which

is you know you never was your grandfather my father's father. Yeah, the book was originally called The Left instead of a Right. You never know, but I don't know. Random House didn't think it was a good title. Publishers never liked the titles that we come up with. Yeah, I mean, I've come up with every title from my book and my current book that I'm working on. I wanted to be called the Filipino in Me as a double ententtra It's

so good, I know, because it means two things. It means the one thing and then it means all the things that he brings out in me right. And they're like, well, I feel like they're going to tell me that it's going to exclude a certain part of the prob just because it's Filipino means it's only geared towards Filipino. From six New York Times bestseller books, Chelsea, I think you can call it whatever the funk you want to Thank you, Julia. That's to my editors. Okay, I hope you're listening, But

back to your book, you take us through. I was just saying this off air, but I want to say it on air. You take us through a story. Your book is so well done because there's a beginning, in the middle and an end, which I appreciate as an avid reader of memoirs, and you answer all the questions that you raise throughout the book, Like I was like, well, what's going to happen with Alec? And then what's going

to happen with this? And they're better be closure on the relationship and you better actually call your father out and you wrap everything up and you know, you answer all the questions the reader has going through the book with you. But I think would surprise me most about your book is how tough you are and how much ship you had to endure as a little girl and just tough it out without crying because our dispositions are different.

I was a spoiled brat and if I didn't get what I wanted, if I my parents pulled any nonsense that I wasn't down with, like they never heard the

end of it. So reading about you always wanted your father's approval and adoration and not being able to stand up for yourself and just kind of be dragged around the world by your mother, who you know, whose priorities were all over the shop, which you know, you bring up a great point in which every one of us realizes when we get older, is that our parents are people too. They're not just our parents, they actual yeah,

and they make mistakes. Yeah, And god, I hope my kid knows that when he gets older, because I'm sure I'm making a million mistakes. But that being said, my mother made a few colossal mistakes. So how does that when you have that disposition growing up? You want to be sunshine girl, you want to be the smiley girl. You don't want to upset your visits with your father because some of them sometimes they had been far few and far between, right, and you lived all over the place.

You lived in England, you lived in Paris, that was later, but you your mom kind of dragged you back and forth to England a couple of times. Paris, England, New York, England, New Hampshire, England, mostly England, mostly England, and sometimes not under the most ideal circumstances. And so how does one person going through all of that, when do you learn

to stand up for yourself? You know it was weird is once I got out of middle school and was in high school, I seem to stand up for myself in glass and with friends more than I could at home or than I could with my dad, for sure, because I only wanted him to love me because we had so little time together. I didn't want it. I never wanted him to disapprove, and I stood up to my mother by the time I got became a teenager

all the time. But with men, what I started to find out with all these relationships I had these long term five years, five years and then ten years. I just would shut up, and I realized I was just by the time I was thirty five, I was in those relationships because it's what I knew. It's how I knew how to be around difficult people like your mom, like my mom. So you were mimicking your relationship with men like a lot of people don't talk about that.

People say, oh, it's your father, your relationship with your father. If that's fractured, then you have your daddy issues or however you want to frame that, and that's a replication of your relationship with your father. But it is true that we replicate the most difficult relationships. Yeah, And I think also I was looking for a permanent relationship when I was fifteen, and so I was with a guy, a wonderful guy actually, and we're still we still text

each other to this day. He was the mechanic who could build any house. And the truth is he was five years older than me, which is a big difference when you're fifteen and someone's twenty. Well, it's also illegal. I have one of those. Yeah, I don't, because that that's happened to me too. I was writing about it one book, My Matter is like, you know this is illegal. You're gonna get him in trouble. And I'm like, well, now there's a statue of limitations, so don't worry going

to get in trouble. And I would like to make the argument that at fifteen, I was fucking forty five, so I see where you're coming from. For me, it was like he called all the shots because he was the adult. He had the car, he had the you know, he was out of school. He was picking me up on his motorcycle. You know. There was something about him for me that was like, oh I found home. Yeah, of course. And so I didn't really have a voice. I didn't say I don't like this, I don't like

that until I got to college. And then I was like, you know what, I think we're We're done because I started, I wanted to explore, and then, of course I end up with a man who's gay for how many years? Another five years? Another five I'm I'm a loyalist, for sure. I stayed very loyal, But I stayed in them because I didn't want to upset anybody, right, I didn't want to hurt anybody. I didn't want to be the bad

guy I used to have. I used to have these visions of the Tenure relationship, which was really the difficult relationship. The other two I'm really good friends with, but the Tenure relationship. I used to have these fantasies that I'd come home from work and I'd find a woman in my he was living in my house. I'd find a woman in my bed with him, and then I could leave because I have a reason and it wouldn't be my fault. That was the scenario I played every time

I drove into the driveway. It's amazing to me, it's horrible, it's just amazing to me. And I won't pretend that I didn't google who that person was that you were talking about, because I did. I had to find out who you were talking about. But don't you think I tactfully? Yes? And the reason I don't name him is because this book isn't I don't want to throw anyone under the bus. I want to talk about my as a woman, my reaction to this. It was my fault. You know, I

have to take responsibility. And it wasn't until I realized when I was in therapy twice a week for a year after I left that relationship, that was really my mom. He was my mom because that was always eggshells, not knowing what mood, what country, what boyfriend, what whatever she was throwing at me. I obviously was comfortable with with the uncomfortable nous, But I mean I beat myself up for a good year, going who are you? Why did

you allow that you weren't happy? And that's a lot of what the book is about is like finding your own narrative. You don't have to hold onto your childhood, but we do. We do. And then, and I think you know, mentioning therapy after you get out of a difficult relationship is so relatable to so many listeners because it's only after I was in a very troubling relationship probably one of the last times I met you was

at his house upstate, New York. And that was a completely unhealthy relationship where I was not I had no agency, I had no for me, you know, I could tell the person and that I a spouse and the person that people think that I am or perceived me to be. Like everything just flew out the window with the chemistry between us. It was just so off. And again I

can't blame him. I participated in that, But when you come out of that kind of relationship, you it is your responsibility to do the work to figure out why you stayed in that relationship. And then I do believe that's what draws the right person to you, absolutely, because you get healthy and then you bring a healthy towards you. And I think it's for me, especially for me because I had overlap boyfriend since I was fifteen to thirty five.

For me, it was finally being happy being alone. Yeah, right, what you talk about in the book, and I talked about that, like my my favorite Valentine's I hate Valentine's Day.

It's such as it's like I can't believe these people make money off of a d like that drives my husband's like, we'll celebrate the day we met, because that, to me is Valentine's daying like great, But I was working on the last season of The Sopranos and um, and it was Valentine's Day and I got off work early and I just moved into this great loft and soho and by myself, a three bedroom loft, and so like for me, I was like, oh my god, I'm looking especially for you. You can't even believe you have

a house today. I can't. I can't. And I went to my favorite bookstore, McNally's on Prince Street, and I bought three books that I really wanted to read, and I made myself a bubble bath, poured a glass wine, put on the music I wanted to listen to, and spent Valentine's Day night in the tub with a glass of wine and my book. And I was in heaven.

And three days later I met my husband. Yeah, it's like you find peace within yourself and then you then you are able to recognize also to see right, to recognize what is the best thing for you rather than to perpetuate old habits. Well, and what makes me happy, not what makes them happy, and so when I when I met Keith, it was this is who I am, Take it or leave it. And I had this in the book and I got edited out. I did have a great editor, and there's no fat on the book.

We we there's a whole other book on the floor or But there was this great moment. Keith and I had had a really fun night out. We were a little a lot hungover, and I had this white runner in the hallway from my bedroom to the kitchen and we woke up. We were probably four weeks, five weeks into the relationship, and it was Sunday morning. You know, nothing better than like making coffee and getting on the couch with the paper or whatever. I was. It was

heaven for me. And we're walking down and he's behind me, and we're walking down the hallway and I see this huge ball of fluff on the carpet and I bent down to pick it up because that is who I am. And he went, seriously, can we have coffee first before you start cleaning? He was saying it sweetly, not judgmentally. And I hovered over that piece of fluff and I picked it up and I turned around and I said, this is who I am. No matter how hungover I am,

I will always clean up. And he went great, my apartments down the street you wanted, I have tons of fluff balls feel free. But it was one of those for me, a defined moment that I had found myself and a relationship. That was in the galley because I read that that's what you sent me originally, and I've read that scene and that's not in the book that I've reread this week, So that was in the galley. Yeah, that's interesting that you cut that out, cutting out fat.

It's so hard to edit, you know sometimes when you're trying to tell your whole story. I can relate to that for sure. But I think what you mentioned is so important for our listeners to hear too, that alone time where you really discover who who you are and what makes you happy and what what is what is contributing to your self worth and self esteem rather than what is kind of taking away from it. You know, like it's all of our responsibilities to kind of fill

ourselves up and make ourselves whole. It's nobody else's responsibility. You know, you can't blame anyone else for your self doubt or your insecurity. People can trigger us, and they can because we have all of our histories. And then you have the power not to be around them, or you have the power to react in a different that doesn't feel good. Yeah, exactly, And and that is the beauty of getting older. I have to say, I know there's a lot of things that suck about getting older.

What do you think sucks the worst about getting older? My eyes? I can't see anything. Look at this. I know I can't even read this right now. These are called bunny eyes. I told the woman to send me a bunch yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and then she goes one like this, yeah, I'm like, and then you can hold them up. So she brought me a bag of him at my last show in like Long Island, and they're like, I guess the prescribe. My prescription just keeps

decreasing or increasing whatever. So now I can't even use these. I'm like, fuck. And then makeup putting on makeup. If I don't have a magnifying mirror, I'm screwed because I can't if I shut one eye, I can't see that. I So when you if you check into a hotel and they don't have a magnifying mirror and you have a thing because I usually of course, of course, you do your own makeup. She styles herself, she does her own grocery shopping, she's her own chambermaid. Is that still

a word chambermaid? It is my house and it's me. But yeah, that I think I would say the eyes is one. And also just like I'm just I'm nine years older than you. I just had a birthday and I'm I think I'm nine years I just turned fifty six. But i just started noticing, like my skin feels like it's getting looser, like just a little bit. But I'll tell you the myth about menopause because you talk about it sometimes. So here's what's great about it. I'm going

to talk about the positivity of it. Great. The positivity of it is when I would get my period, like three days before my period, my boobs would ache and they'd grow a size and I'd have to have a different and it just was achy. And you were talking about that when you go through menopause, everything stays the same. I'm like, oh, I never worry about what I used to worry about. With all that, I don't get moody. I've had a very easy time of it, but it's

probably because I eat really well in exercise. But for me anyway, I'm like, oh, I never have to worry about my boo boobs aching or I mean during pen demic, I didn't even know the word bra. It was like I was free and easy and nothing hurt. So that's actually something really lovely to look forward to. And also no one talks about this what what actors go through when you're on a set. It is very different. The day you get your period, it's horrible and you're in

the time, especially when I was Alicia Floor. You're in all the tight things and it all fit during the fitting, and then you have your period and you're you're running to change your TI. None of that matters anymore. Like I don't worry about wearing white and you don't have the mood swing, Well, you're wearing a white jumpsuit right now, so I can vouch for that. In homage to Chelsea and I have my period, so she's obviously celebrating that.

But there is something that that's the good parts. I haven't had a bad one, so the worst I don't get mood swings. What I get is did you get mood swings before like during your period. Yeah, oh my god. Okay, good because they sound like all my symptoms. Oh yeah, I would get mood swings, I'd feel a key, I'd be like I don't want to do this, and I would crave chocolate like it like that I had to eat chocolate right, like it was chemical. Yeah, and now

I just don't right. And the worst part is actually I heard Brookshields talking about this, which was great. You know, they call them hot flashes and she said she was in London and she said to some guy who was checking her luggage. She was like, I'm sorry, I'm having a hot flash and he said, no, in our country, we call them power surges. And I thought, I like that, you know. And so when when you do get a hot flash, is like, no, I just look really doey.

Yeah right. They can be annoying and they wake you up at night. But it hasn't been so bad. Well, this is very very good. This is inspiring. I'm very excited to go through menopause and about this period thing. It's horrible. I know it's going to be. I'm just like so over it, you know. Oh, I can't wait to get that text You're gonna be so happy that I've gotten I'm going through menopause. How long is that actual process of menopause because my sister said that it

can be take anywhere from two to five years. I've heard up to ten years. Oh gosh, really, I think it really depends on the woman. I've had friends who have gone through menopause at forty you know. I didn't go through until so I really think it depends. And

here's a little tip. I don't know if it's true, but my my guy in college is said, I was so smart, but when I had terrible, debilitating period cramps when I was in high school and my mother told me to take evening primrose oil and it just stayed with me all these I always take it every day every day. And my guy in college is said, that has helped you through menopause. Oh good to know. Yeah, primrose oil. Or do you take the capsules or did

you take it? Took the Yeah, the little capsule, Yeah, okay, I take those every night. People should take that. That's really good for PMS two. By the way, it's great, and it's great for your skin, good for your skin, hair, nails, all that stuff. I think. Okay, So back to your book. We're going to pivot away from menopause for those of you who aren't on the heels of it, and we're gonna go back to Sunshine Girl. Back to your book. I want to know what your relationship is like with

your two sisters. Well, it's good. My eldest sister, after she read the book, called me crying and thanked me because she did. I think it's really something to be able to. Um. Yeah, First of all, I asked their permission because it's their childhood too, but I had to write it in my what you know, And that's why I say in the book. You know, I really do think you see the world differently depending like with you, we're the youngest, right the order you were born in

dictates how you see the world. So my eldest sister, who I still you know, it's so interesting because I feel bad for her that she felt like she had to mother me. She she was nine when I was three. You know, like she's nine, that's a baby. And yet she said to me, I always felt guilty that I got the best years of mom and Dad. I got to see them as a married, in love couple and you never even lived with dad, so you know, it's

a it's a juxtaposition between what's worse. I don't know, but I was so protected by them, and that's why by the time I got in the part of the book where I sort of left home and became my own person and was on my own path, I didn't want to talk about them anymore, because that that's their life now, you know. I think my my eldest sister, Alexandra said to me, it was amazing to see it on the paper. It's one thing to feel it and remember it in your own mind, but to see it

on the page is very different. Yeah, So I think they're genuinely she's happy that someone told that story, right, because even though your experiences are are different because of the ages. And I know she moved out earlier when she's like fourteen, right, she basically said to your mother, like sunk off, she said, not I can't live with you anymore, right, I mean, And so there must be a lot of guilt that goes with that too, leaving the two of you behind in a sense, not that's

that's not that that's what she did. But I'm sure that you could, you know, there's guilt from her for her. But even though your situate, your experiences differ, you still have that understanding, like siblings are the only people in the world who understand what you went through. It is I mean, last week I went to see my stepmother, who's still alive. Literally every time I leave the nursing home, I look up. I'm like, Dad, seriously, this is when you left me. She turned ninety and I had spent

three hours feeding her. But the whole drive home, which was a good three hours from Great Barrington, Massachusetts, I called my sister and I said, Okay, now I have because she lives in California. Now I have to tell you. And we just laughed and cried the whole way home.

And if you don't have that, and by the way, I'm saying this now, and I'm I'm slightly freaking out because I only have one one kid, so I don't know, but he has very stable parents, so hopefully he won't have the same complaints that me and my sisters have. But it really helps because and also my mom who just got diagnosed with dimension. I had to move her into an assisted living place. The funny parts of it and the sad parts of it. I just call her.

I have her support no matter what. You know, She's always there and appreciative that I'm doing all the work. But I'm happy to do it because at the end of the day, like what am I gonna do not be there for them? You have to be there for them, right absolutely. When my father was in a nursing home, I remember my brother and I were leaving driving back one day and his son was in the backseat, and I was like, I was about to go to Africa, and I was like, if dad dies while I'm in Africa,

I go, do I have to come back? My brother, my brother Glenn looking, he was like he's just seeing the look on the Stacey because typically Chelsea people return from whatever trips they're on to go to their parents funeral. And then my I go, all right, I'm just asking, like I was just putting it out there. Obviously I'll

come back if that's what's expected of me. And my nephew in the back it is like so he said something like, well, maybe we can just kill you or something, and I was like, fuck, I guess I said the wrong thing. If an eight year old knows better than I do. But yeah, you do have a lot of responsibilities as as a child when you become an adult. It's so interesting the whole cycle of parenting, you know, Like I just I never as a kid respect in my parents because I didn't think they had any business

having this many children, you know. I just I couldn't ever think about my mother in terms of her as her own history, her own life that she had before I was ever there. I could never think about my father in those terms. To me, they were only my parents and they were there to service me. But that's that's truthful. How is a child supposed to understand what their parents have gone through before? I try to tell my kid. I said to him, I was like, any

chance you want to read the book? He's like, no, I'm good. Yeah, And he said, he's like, Mom, I have you every day. I know who you are. He won't watch me act ever, He's like, it's just embarrassing. And I mean he came to the set a couple of times. I was on The Good Wife for seven years and maybe by the time he was eleven, he came to the set because he wanted to sit behind the camera and you know, check out all the equipment, but not because he wanted to see me act. Yeah.

It's amazing how immunity you've become to something as soon as you're exposed to it. Right. Oh, it's like, I mean, what's funny now is because The Good Wife wasn't a show that kids in his class would watch, but with The Morning Show because I'm playing this kick out lesbian journalist and his his grade. The hundred kids that are in eighth grade have identified as something other, and I would say good half of that, or lesbian girls. Thirteen year old lesbian girls who are crazy in love with

Laura Peterson so suddenly has some currency. He's like, wait, what's up character you're playing because people were talking about her, talking about her? And I was like, who's talking about her? Who watching you? You're too young to watch the Morning Show. He's like, they're all watching mom. But there's I think as he gets older he might appreciate it more. But he said he's embarrassed because he's like, I know he was my mom. I don't want to know you as

anyone else. And I think that's healthy and good. Yeah, it probably is. I'm sure he's fine. You guys are both very stable so I'm sure he's not going to have any sort of drama. I mean, he hasn't had drama that you've grown up with because we always correct, right, I mean you you stop that cycle? Yeah, everyone overcorrects. Whoever doesn't have a good experience with their parents does the opposite or perpetuates the cycle, which clearly you're not doing.

Another are fascinating thing that I know you've spoken about ad nauseum. But you turned down twenty seven million dollars when they wanted to renew you for two more years on e ER, which I remember reading and going fuck. But I've also turned down significant amounts of money, not twenty seven million dollars. But when I was leaving e they thought it was a joke like that. I you know, I was trying to negotiate. I'm like no, no, I'm done.

I'm over this, and they're like no, and they kept throwing more and more money, and at one point I went, wow, that's a lot of money. But I'm still not interested. So I can relate to that. But I didn't know that about you until I read your book. I didn't know about that twenty seven million dollars that they wanted

to keep you on the er. And I certainly didn't know that you people were on television giving you, like Barbara Walters and Joy Be Horror and people on the View and whatever other television shows were talking smack about you turning down that money, like as in, who does this woman think she is? Because that that kind of money. If you turn that down, that means you think you're better than that. Yeah, which wasn't the case. Which isn't the case. It's not about being better than that. It's

about being done with something. I wanted to live my life and I want to move back to New York. I was doing a play for two and six or five dollars a week. Yeah, I didn't you know, until people started talking like that about it. I hadn't thought of it that way. And it was my dad that really. He was like, you know, honey, when you say no to something, people ask themselves what they would say no to, and they wouldn't say no to that. So then they get mad at you for having the courage to do

it because it's something they wouldn't do. But the way the View, all those chicks on the View, which I is still to this day, have not been on. Yeah, I don't blame you. I'm not gonna go on it because they never listen. I'm I'm I get it. I'm a somewhat public figure, and so people can rip me to shreds or they have the right right. That's okay. They can't do it to my kid, but they can do it to me. But when it's a woman, and I was thirty two, and when they're saying, who does

she think she is? She's not some spring chicken is what Barbara walters and then Joy Behar was like, women can't turn down that kind of you know, it was all about. There was no female support. There was no someone saying, well, wait a minute, she's doing this play and she's off going off to you know, blah blah blah, and maybe wow, maybe money isn't the most important thing

in the world to her. But no one took any side except pouncing on who does she I guess they thought I thought I was going to be some big movie star, which that wasn't even my wheelhouse. I just wanted to work. I wanted to work doing other things. Six years is a long time to play the same character. I understand. Yeah, there's a seven year which I think for everything. You know, they talk about that for marriage, but it's in life too. It happens in friendships, it's

it happens in work relationships. You know, it happens in in every molecule in your body. Every seven years that your hair changes, your nails change. So suck on that, everybody. That's actually a Jewish thing. Seven years as a cycle. Well it's not just a Jewish thing, but you know, in Judaism seven years is always like a renewal, and every seven years is meaningful in that regard. But tell

the story about out how you made that decision. You talked to your father, who, by the way, is so sagacious and his advice giving throughout the book, Like he's just kind of like this old wise man, you know, which is kind of exactly what you want a father to be. But tell the story about going to the bookstore after right, So is it still there the Boodhi bo so on Melrose. Yeah, So I went to the Boodie Tree bookstore and I actually had never been in it before, and I thought it was that same thing

that my grandfather was. You never know, a left instead of a right, like just go with what the feeling is and so I went and I picked out a book. I didn't know the author, it said. The book title is Awakening the Buddha Within by Syria Ramdas. And I bought the book. I sort of like, you know, put my finger down the down the shelf and just picked that book. And I brought it home and the boyfriend who I was trying to leave for five years was there, and he was one of the people saying, you gotta

take the money, you gotta take the money. He was living a very nice life in my Santa Monica house. Yeah, I bet that's another thing. I was like, she better not take money watches with that guy, he'll never leave. Yeah. And I took the book upstairs into my bedroom and I shut the door, and I sat down on a chair and I closed my eyes and I opened up the book and I just took my finger and pointed at a line in the book and I opened my

eyes and I couldn't make this up. The line said, I realized my mission in life was to learn more, not earn more. And I'm not a religious person at all, but I truly I was like, that was like divine intervention. You know, I would say so, and then I read the whole book because I was fascinated. And this was a guy who was a Wall Street genius and making millions and millions of dollars a day and waking up

every morning feeling empty, like why aren't I happy? And he ended up giving it all away and becoming a monk and he found his happiness, and it was it was sort of that. It was that was a lightning bolt moment where I thought, do what you want to do, don't do and that was the beginning of the end of that relationship. You know, when I when I started realizing, oh, I'm in charge of my own life. No one else is, because no one else is living it. You can tell me what you want me to do, but you're not

in my shoes. And it felt really empowering. Yeah, I think it is really empowering. I hope more women do the same thing and feel like, you know, the self worth that comes along with making that decision, because regardless of how anybody else perceives that, there is a lot of sort of self worth and just saying no to anything that doesn't behoof you or suit your needs or interests. At that point, you know, it's not like you're screwing

anybody over. You're just standing up for yourself and directing your own life. Anyway. We could talk for hours about just whatever, but we actually have some advice to be giving out, dolling out joy and I hope you're prepared for those. I'm so excited. I listened to this podcast and I'm always like, how are they going to answer that? Okay, Catherine, tell us what we have in store for us today. Well, we have. We're starting with a question that has to

do exactly with what we were just talking about. Money and you know, choosing the right job for yourself, that's fulfilling. We have some sister issues. We've got a whole bunch of good stuff. So we'll take a quick break and we'll be back with Julianna and Chelsea. Okay, Julianna and I are going to just take a quick sprints. We'll be right back and we're back. We're back. Well, our first question comes from Nile. He says, Dear Chelsea, I'm a thirty three year old irishman living in New York

City for over ten years now. Like a lot of the Irish diaspora, I assimilated into a career in the bar and restaurant industry. For most of that time, I didn't always love it. I knew there was something more out there for me, but I could never get clear on what. Plus, it was fun, easy money, relatively free of stress, which is how I aspire to live my life as much as possible. Next thing, I know, I've been doing it for eight years with no plan for

really what I want to do. When the pandemic hit in I reevaluated this was my oportunity and my sign that it was time to branch out into something new. When an administrative position became available with a nonprofit suicide prevention organization I was familiar with, I applied, and, to my disbelief, was hired to work there. I was so happy. After years of aimlessly floating through the bar and restaurant industry of New York City, I found a calling that

aligned so much with my heart and my purpose. For context, I lost a beloved friend to suicide four years ago and vowed that her loss would not be in vain and that I would make some small difference where I could. I found being a small part of an organization that helped those like my dear friend in their darkest hours, to find hope and a way forward to be indescribably rewarding and fulfilling. There was only one problem. I could

not survive on what I was earning. All of our services are completely free of charge to the clients, and the organization relies completely on fundraising, donations and grants from the city. I have amassed six thousand dollars in credit card debt over the past year to try and stay aflow. I worked out a compromise with my employer that they would hire an intern so I could finish work earlier and do an evening shifter to in a bar for much needed supplemental income. This was still not enough to

survive on. After a lot of internal battling, I now know that the practical solution is that I will, with a heavy heart, have to give my notice and go elsewhere, elsewhere being for now back to serving drinks. I would have stayed in my job until retirement age were it not for the financial side of things. It's very disappointing, but I've tried my best. I feel very overwhelmed and lacking in confidence and even thinking of where to go next.

I just want to make a decent income that doesn't have me stressing about money constantly, but also hopefully continue in a similar role that makes a small difference somehow to someone somewhere. Huge Thanks for the excellent podcast and the lives that helps. Nile Hi, Nile Hi, Nile Hi, nice to meet you. You're here today with Julietta Margutie she's our special guest, and Catherine, our producer. Hi Julia to High Chelsea next to see you again, Katherine. How

we're good? How are you doing? I'm good, I'm good. Obviously you've just heard my my submission there, so you've got kind of filled in. I'm a week through my two weeks notice now, so halfway there no clear plan on what's coming next, as I say, it will be a temporary stop gap back to the bar, pay off my credit card, which is kind of the big like cloud of dread that's been hanging over me recently, and then beyond that I'll figure it out. But I'm very like I live, like as I say, under a lot

of like dread and anxiety. So not having a very clear long term plan of what comes next is like very overwhelming to me. So as I said, I would have stayed in this job happily until the retirement where it not for the financial side of things. But I'm not trying to reframe it and look at it in a more positive way and think, well, maybe you would have grown stale and stagnant staying in a job or in any aspect of life for too long. So maybe this is kind of the push out of my come

for it zone that I do need as well. So I'm trying to like train myself to sort of view it in a in a new way. But yeah, the dread and the fear and then the nerds keep kind of creeping back up. I guess, So what are you doing in the interim? You're going back to the bar, You're in a bartend or weight tables. What's you're trying to pay off your debt? Yeah, exactly. They don't pay you anything at the suicide heartline that oh no, I do I do get I do get paid there. I

have a salary. It's just it is it's not enough nonprofit and I'm just not surviving on it unfortunately, and I haven't been for a while. But I kind of pushed to the back of my head because I was thinking, well, pros far away the cons. There's so much of this job that I love, and you know, someday I'll you know,

be breaking even. But then it's kind of I woke up to it recently and I was going, Okay, I really need to do something about this or the whole of finance financial struggle that I'm deep digging myself into, is going to continue. So I really wrestled with the decision to leave. I really don't want to. I think

a lot of it as well. If I don't have particularly high level of self esteem or confidence, and I got so much of that from doing this line of work because I knew how much it was helping other people to be some small part of it, and mentioning as well that suicide is something I've been personally affected by. So yeah, I took tremendous self worth and esteem and everything from itself. Was all of that as well. I don't get the same boats from waiting tables carry no ship.

That's the way. It's a good way to take away your self esteem. But listen, you've had this positive that you've had this that's not gonna happen to you. You've had this positive experience right doing what you really got fulfilled from, so you know like where that lies, and is there a way for you to do that on a part time level, like to volunteer a couple of days a week when I know you need to pay off your credit cards now, so that's the most important thing.

But is there a way to stay working for this nonprofit on a more minimal basis. I'm sure there could be, and we did discuss that, but again, I just feel it's not probably a viable long term solution. Definitely, there's going to be case by case basis like volunteer like for fundraising events and certain things like that, but doing it on a continuous basis, I don't think it's going to really be feasible. I wouldn't rule it out, certainly.

If it's something that becomes, you know, an opportunity, I will definitely available. I just don't think it's you know, really feasible right now. At least maybe it's something that I can revisit a little bit of a better situation. Well, I would just say, you know, if that brought you as much fulfillment as you're describing, it's worth holding onto it. Even if it's a day or a day a week, you know, even if you go in on a Sunday

for four hours or you know whatever. I think that's valuable to keep in mind, you know, to have an attachment to that still, or look for another place where you can volunteer for those hours, you know, just for like one day a week, or you know, where you're

really talking to people. And in the meantime, I would say, you know, if you've found such value and fulfillment in that, I think what you need to look for the next six months should be about you paying off your credit cards, which I'm sure you can do waiting table, I mean bart doing wait tables, You're going to be able to make cash quickly. But you should be looking in the direction of therapy, like in counseling and helping people. Right, Oh my god, we need people like you. You're doing

God's work. Absolutely. I had actually thought about that prior to securing the job that I'm not leaving. I had thought about initially going back to school and training to be a therapist, and then it was kind of the going back to school aspect that sort of scared me because then you're in more debt, right, well, yeah, exactly, yeah, and it's yeah, So I wouldn't really that out either. I would love to get involved that kind of work

on the therapeutic side. As I mentioned, I'm on the administrative side currently, but you know, the training and qualifications that are needed, I would certainly be willing to do it. It's just the time and the expense as well. That's what kind of holding me back a little bit at the moment. I don't think you should quit cold Turkey because you just said it yourself that it's given you

this kind of confidence that you're helping people. There's very few of people like you in the world that actually get fulfillment from helping other people, and so don't quit completely. I wouldn't because you need it as much as they need it. So if you could even on a Sunday, you know, like you're gonna have a day off. I was a bartender and a waitress, so you're definitely a day off. You have a day off, and I know it's not the most fun thing to have to work

on your day off, but it feeds you. It seems to feed your soul, and so you I don't think you should shut that door. And I think that ultimately you should start talking to people and finding out how you can get the training somehow where you can still work and not end up being in debt, so that you can do this for a living. I agree with that, and I think there are different tiers of counseling. Right. Sometimes you have to get certified, there's an mfc C.

Sometimes you have to go to school for two years. Obviously, you're not gonna want to devote from what I can tell so far. You don't want to go to school and then get your masters and then become a psychiatrist. That's a longer journey. But there are many other tiers of helping people and becoming a counselor that are achievable even without extra cash. You know, there are grants that you can apply for. You can help put yourself through school so that you don't end up being in debt.

You know, you can go to a community college program and get the certification you need to become a counselor to work for you know, there are so many different kind of I'm not well schooled or versed in all of these different therapy programs, but I know a friend of mine that went for two years and as now a counselor, so you know there are different You just have to do the research and actually find out what can work for you because something that is contributing a

you're helping people and that's never wrong. That's always just a great direction to head in and you're helping yourself. So you have to like have a little faith in the process and not be overwhelmed by the commitment moving into it, you know, and start asking the people you're working with who work there too, like what would you do if you wanted to ultimately go to school? But I can't because you know, who do you know? And who should I talk to? It's it's something I was

always afraid to ask for help. I thought I had to do everything on my own. And man, I love not being scared of asking for help anymore. It's changed my life. Yeah, you've got to ask the people around you what would you do if you I always say that to everybody, to doctor, what would you do if you were me? How would you do it? And you just get a different perspective. That's so true as well.

And you've actually highlighted something from me that I haven't considered before, which is my need to be independent and think, no, I can do this alone, I don't need help, I don't need support has probably exacerbated the situation that I'm now in so definitely, and I'm actually not short on contacts and resources and people that I'm sure can help me get along to use use them. It just takes one person to say the one thing you need to

hear to get you on your journey. Literally one person. Yeah, the more forthcoming you are too, people, you know, like you'd be surprised how many people really take pride in

helping other people. You know you're not being you know, the people who aren't there or aren't available for that will let you know that they're not available for that, but you it just like Julianna just said, it takes one person to kind of help steer you in the right direction or help aid you and finding out the right information you need to proceed with a program or to sign up for a program, or to go to night school, or to fit it in around your bartending hours.

You know, at least then you know that you're bartendering as a means to an end. It's not just interminable and probably now because of you know, The silver lining of COVID is there's probably so many online courses you could do that you can do from your your bed on your computer when you get home from work. Yeah, and do it in your own time, and it might take you five years. You're thirty three, you're so young. I know you don't think that, but you are. You're

really young. So it takes you ten years at forty three, where you'll still be so young. You'll be a fully licensed therapist and can go about your life the way you want to live it. Don't pressure yourself about time. Yeah, that's so true. Not everything is to be immediate and instantaneous, and now we want it right away, and it's scary. And trust me, you're obviously smart enough to know that you better start paying back all the debt you oh on your credit cards six thousand dollars. I'm so glad

you said that. In not you know what I mean. Yeah, it could be a lot worse. You're in the bud so you have a right and to speak a little bit to the self esteem issue. Now. I read a lot of emails, and in two years of reading these emails, this is one of the most beautiful emails I've read

it's really beautiful. You have skills with communication that are far above average, and so wherever you land, whether it's back with the same nonprofit or somewhere else, you are able to communicate in a way that any employer would value. So don't sell yourself short. I think wherever you land, you're going to do really, really well. And with that accent, my god, right, Yeah, it's a weird win situation. Send alone will get you in the door. Hopefully we're at

the shot. It's worth the shot. I'll talk all day. Yeah, and just remember you know, intentionally your intentions are good when everything is aligned and you're kind of following your purpose in your life. And this really sounds like it's going to be your purpose. Things aligned for you more

easily than you think. Like, So, you're in a situation right now, and if you take the steps to get yourself on the road to becoming a counselor to becoming some sort of therapist, and you figure out, Okay, how am I going to do this and how am I going to achieve this and set up a plan, things are going to happen for you that you didn't see coming, and things people will come into your life that will help assist that and will help make it happen for you,

because there becomes like a magnetic attraction. You know, when your intention is clear and you're doing a good and you're doing good work, things will start to open up for you. So you have to believe in that. Yeah, absolutely,

that's so true. I recently find out tree therapy as well that I'm addicted to negative thinking, so I'm trying to work in all of that as well, so again reframing it and instead being optimistic and positive and open to risks and you know, taking a gamble and opportunities, which I'm so allergic and cautious to you right now, and I don't really know why because it's obviously not working very well for me, but you'll never know unless

you try, right exactly. Yeah, yeah, no regrets, don't have regrets. And the antidote to negative thinking is to be listening to someone else, you know, which is what your goal is. That takes you out of your own head and your own ass and then you you don't have time to be thinking negatively when you're talking to other people listening

to their problems, you know. So yeah, I think that you know exactly what you should do and what steps you should take moving forward, just to get yourself, you know, in the mode of having a plan and having a time frame so you're not freaking out and living in this kind of fearful situation or position or thinking absolutely, well, now I want you to get your act together and then follow back up with us and make and let us know when you do have something going on and

you have enrolled yourself into a program and what your game plan is, because I think that's going to add to your self esteem a lot too. I absolutely will. Yeah, thank you. You know, I don't have too many good ideas when I drink, but I was having a couple of glasses of one the other night because I was so depressed after knowing that I'd behind my noticing, and I was like, I'm going to write into Chelsea, that's a good idea. I did, And look at that quick

turn around. You wrote this email after a couple of drinks. Yeah exactly. Yeah, so there we go reframing it and thinking more positively. Yeah for the advice and encouragement this has been. You're the cutest nile. Good luck with everything. Fine, Yes, I have no doubt you're gonna be great. Thank you, guys, Thank you so much. Take care than have a great day. Up top, sister, up top. That was great. That was awesome.

I wasn't he just wonderful? He was so sweet and adorable. Yeah, it's so nice to see a man caring so much and not like that. Men don't care, but sometimes it feels like they really don't. It's so nice to hear men being so thoughtful about things. Yeah, and having that he's a softie, like there was something so open about his heart. Yeah. Yeah, God, when we do need more people like him? Yeah, right, exactly. Remember when in the days where we had people would support artists, you know,

the rich people. Where are those people they're supposed to support all these people that make the world better in art and music and struggling musicians and therapists. We need those back. We need to start a mentor program. Well, yeah, we need people like Elon Musk to stop spending their money on shuttlecocks and spending it on actually making the world a better place. So we'll start with that, Okay, Catherine, who do we have next? Next? We have Taylor? Taylor,

says dear Chelsea. My entire adult relationship with my little sister has revolved around being there for her while she struggled with mental health, bouts of substance abuse, and an abusive relationship. She's twenty two and Taylor, by the ways. I was the one who showed up when it got ugly between her and her boyfriend, and answered countless times when she called intoxicated and crying. Last year, she and

her boyfriend finally separated. My family and I were hopeful that she would move on and recover, But before he even moved out, my sister had already found a new guy. Six months later, she's now living with him, and our relationship has ceased to exist. I can't tell if she has shunned me to avoid my disapproval or if she just doesn't need me to help pick up the pieces anymore. Either way, I feel angry at her for what she put me through, especially now that it feels like I've

lost her. I missed my sister, but I have no idea how to build a relationship with her, given the shaky foundation it was built on in the first place. I know you're very close with your sisters, How can I put my feelings aside? And make my way back into her life. Taylor, Hi, Taylor, Hi, Hi, Hi. We have Julianna margu Lis with us today to see you both. You too, nice to see you. It sounds like you

really love your sissy. Yes, I definitely miss her. Okay, So explain to me what happened where the break was. So after my sister broke up with her boyfriend, she immediately started dating someone new and I found out through hearsay in the family because she was a little too I guess scared to tell me. And that's sort of where the rift came. Can I just ask you something when when she was going through this breakup with the boyfriend, was she a mess on? Were you picking her up

off the floor? Was she despondent? Yeah? It was bad. It was bad, and you you were there for her. Yes. Yeah, they had like their last fight and I had showed up and it was very dramatic. And then a couple of weeks that went by, I'd check in with her and I had heard through the grapevine, but she already had a new boyfriend and that her boyfriend was moving out. And you haven't spoken to her since that. Last time

I have spoken to her. I saw her at Christmas and it was just like very she was just very standoffish, and I tried to express my concern. And I'm a little angry at her obviously for not telling herself, and so I haven't really reached out since. And so, yeah, well let me ask you one question. You said she

drinks a lot, right, Does she use drugs too? She smokes spot, okay, but she doesn't do anything heavier like cocaine or ecstasy or any of that stuff, right, Okay, So it just sounds like she feels a little shame, right, she's embarrassed for being in this relationship, because why else would she retreat from you when you've been there for her this whole time unless she feels a little bit embarrassed by her own behavior. Yeah, it's it's it's shame she didn't have the balls to tell you. And also

she probably knows she's wrong. You don't you don't take up with someone else right after you, you know, that's that's her being afraid to be alone and get her life together, and she knows you probably can see that. I'm just sad that it came at like the cost of me, right, Well, I mean I think there's a couple of ways you can handle this. I mean, either you can put it in an email, or you can

sit down with her and talk to her. I mean I always like an email better because obviously emotions a run high in person, and then sometimes you can be reactive when in an email you can just kind of put everything down and edit it and look at it a million times before you feel like sending it, and then sometimes never send it. But in this case, it

sounds like you know it's your sister for life. I'm sure you're gonna want to send something to her and and kind of repair whatever, not repair, but I guess salvage, Yeah, salvage your relationship so that you have one. But there's really no harm in reminding her of like the role that you've played, you know, and how important that role is to you, and that how important she is to you. You are her bigger sister, right, you're twenty five and

she's twenty two. Yeah, correct, Right. Those relationships can be fraught and they can be dramatic. My sisters certainly have bailed me out a million times in my life. I've been horrible when I was a teenager and a young adult. I was a nightmare and they put up with it and they loved me just the same. And so I can really relate to your love for your sister because she just seems like she's going through a pretty selfish time in her life. And some people can be really

self absorber. Doesn't mean they're going to be that way forever. I'm not like that anymore. I always always think of my sisters before I think of myself, just because of all the stuff that I had. They had to endure uh from me, and they still loved me. But maybe she feels like you're judging. You know, she feels judged by you, and you have every right to feel that

way about her. You're gonna have judgment, of course, but beneath all of that is just love and sisterhood and you're from the same family and that's never gonna go away. So it's important for you to remind her that no matter what happens, you're her sister and you love her. That's above and beyond everything else, and that you always want a relationship with her, and that you never know what can happen in life, and you would hate for

anything terrible to happen. While the two of you aren't speaking, so it's so important to keep the communication open. You know, first and foremost is to remind her, Julianna, what do you think about that? I think you hit the nail

on the head when you said write it down. I personally would write a letter, not an email, because I think there's something to be said about the weight of having to open up snail mail and having it, you know, emails disappear, or they go to the junk box where she can pretend she never got it, or but you type it up on your computer and save it for yourself and print it out. Once you start writing things down,

things become much more clear. But I also know from family members of my own being heavy drinkers, they tend to see things negatively and as judgment. So I would start the letter by saying, what exactly what you said to us I miss you, because I think the second you say how you're really feeling, she won't see it

as judgment. She'll see it as you reaching out. And and I know if I had gotten a letter from my sister that said I miss you and I'm worried about you, and I want you to know that you're a big part of my life, and I understand, and you have another boyfriend, that doesn't mean you have to check out on me. I'm not here to judge you. This is your life. But remember I'm here and I

love you and I want you to be okay. You know, it goes both ways to like I want to say, you're also not her punching bag, right because because family, you know, just because your family, you're supposed to be there all the time, and then when they're horrible to you, you're supposed to take it. You're not, and you you

don't have to. You can get up and say, Okay, if if this all goes wrong and she starts lashing out at you, you're then going to just have to take the power back and say I'll be back in your life when you want to treat me with respect and love the way I love you, And you're going to have to make that choice. Yeah, that kind of goes to what Chelsea was saying, like, hopefully this is just like a short time in her life where she's you know, having a selfish time, and I want to

definitely approach the communication in a loving way. And I think that's probably been my mistake in the past and why she has reacted this way because she knows that I come from this like big sister dynamic of like what are you doing? You know? Or I told you so, or yeah you don't the second you wave your finger. But if you come at them with love, where does she have to go? She can't really go anywhere else. Right, do you know anything about her new boyfriend? Is he

good influence or anything negative or positive? From what my family said, he's very similar to her last boyfriend and so not. Everyone was very excited to hear that news. Okay, Well, then then you want to leave your judgment out of that as well, because that's another thing that's just going to push her away. If she feels any sort of judgment on the relationship. You could say, I miss you, I don't even I would love to get to know your new boyfriend. However, you want to spend time together.

Like if you don't want to spend time alone and you want to spend time with your boyfriend, he's welcome to just make it an open, open invitation to her so that there is no defense to put up right, so she doesn't have to protect herself from anything. And yeah, starting with I miss you and I love you, instead

of laying it all out. I think getting reconnecting with her first and getting her as your confidant again and being close to her is the best move in order just to keep her close so that she knows she can trust you and that whatever happens, you'll still be there. Is it just the two of you? We have one older brother. You have an older brother. Are you close with him? Yeah? I'm really close with him. Here's my suggestion, because Chelsea, now we're just talking before the podcast, like

nobody knows you and your family, like your siblings. It would be really great if you could um have him read the letter before you send it, because he'll see things in it. You know, you don't want any judgmental or negativity in the letter, and you may only be meaning it from your heart, but might come out harsh when another person reads it. So I highly suggest you asked your brother to read it before you put it

in the envelope and send it. Also, it's nice to have someone in your corner, you know, for you to say to him, I'm just know you're hurt. Obviously, otherwise you wouldn't have called in. I can see that you're hurt, but that but that it's so touching that you miss your little sister and love her. So come from that place. And then if she chooses, it's her choice. She's also

is really young, she's twenty two. But if she and she's and she's self medicating with alcohol, right, So if she chooses to ignore it, then you've done your part and then you have to work on how to let go just for a while, probably not forever. You're right. I like the idea of having my brother Rita for sure, because if yeah, you can talk anything that it's coming off not how I wanted to come on, And he knows her, so he knows probably how she'll react to something.

So it'll be helpful to have another set of eyes on that for you to feel confident when you send it that you sent the right message. Yeah, I love that. Good. Yeah, well, Taylor, let us know how it goes and if your sister responds or what happens with that, Okay, I will for sure. Thank you well so much. So you're welcome, Taylor. Good luck with everything, good luck, thank you bye bye. Oh what a cutie. That's a good advice to have her

brother look at it. Yeah, we have that going on in our family all the time because we have so many kids. And whenever, whenever anyone has to have a talk with anyone, I always am volunteering because I have no problem with confrontation, and my sister Simone will always step in and go, no, no, let me do it. I'll do it. And then finally I've learned that when I say things, it can come across in a much different way than if a regular, normal, calmer person says them.

So I'll say to my sister, I'll assign her a role and say, hey, you need to talk to Roy about this, and she'll be like okay, okay. And then a month goes by and I'll go, hey, did you talk to Roy? And she's like ah, And I go, well, don't tell me not to confront to everybody if you're not going to pick up the pieces, and she's like, I know, I know, I just couldn't get around to it. She's like, I didn't have it in me. So we some people have a real hard time with having those

difficult conversations. They're hard, Yeah, right, they're hard, and it takes it does take a village. And yeah, because you have to. You have to consider how what you're saying is going to be received, not just saying it. That was my mistake for a while, just saying it and putting it out there, and it's like, that doesn't work. You have to consider the other person and where they're coming from and how they are going to take that information in. You wrote that beautifully in your book. Oh

thank you. It's great because I don't think people really think that way. And it takes you also out of yourself for how you're going to respond to somebody. You know, why did that upset me? Oh maybe they didn't mean it like that, you know, just because we're so quick to jump to conclusions and and and to anger. Yeah, and it's just not a healthy place to live. No,

it's not my Dan. My psychiatrist always says, you know, like any time you're in a state of reactivity, like there's no point in even communicating because you're not ever going to solve anything. You have to take your reaction and then take ten minutes and then there's your response. That was freaky, by the way, because I was so invested in your relationship with Dan, and I loved your sessions with him. That I in my head, I knew

what he sounded like. And then who was on the podcast and was walking through Washington script Prok was like, Oh, this is Dan. I didn't think like that took me out. That's yeah, I know. Dan's the best. He's so smart. Yeah, Joe and I have gone two couples counseling, like twice with Dan and Joe because Joe hasn't had that kind of counseling. And like, you know, as a relationship, we all have our own histories. You can trigger something and someone when you're not doing anything, you know, or you

think you're not doing anything. And so we went into Dan once and we did like a two hour session of just explaining to us how emotions work and how every memory is imprinted in our body from childhood and that things that were traumatizing, even though they don't resemble what's happening right now, it is bringing up a very

instance from your childhood. And Joe must have said the same five things I said in our first session, first session with Dan, which is my childhood has nothing to do with this, and it's like, no, no, that's everyone's mistake. That's exactly what I said. I I don't want to talk about my childhood, my mother's dad, my brother's dad, not first. Yeah, like I'm walking around with a broken leg and thinking it's going to fix itself. So it is interesting to get he laid the foundation I left that.

I left our session that day and I was like, oh my god, I feel like I just got like psychology one oh one. I could listen to that ship for hours. It's so fascinating it. I mean, that's what I was going to do if acting didn't pan out, because it's it's it's behavior. It's what I do for a living, right, I watch people's behavior and what makes them tick. What why do you act that way? And you act that way? It's all about the childhood, man, I know, I know, but look how nicely you've turned

out with your childhood and being so unmoored. You know, look how nicely you turned out. That's like that's a huge victory lap. Yeah, thank god. I mean, I also think I got really lucky in that both of my parents were open to hearing it and to fessing up. I think parents of their generation they're not all there yet because and I know it's hard to confront your parents, especially when when they're older. But they both were receptive and well, and they both really loved you. They just

had their own issues. And that's the same thing with my family. I was very loved, even though I was neglected by my parents, you know, not being picked up from Hebrew school fifteen times in a row. I'm like, listen, assholes, if you're gonna make me go to Hebrew school, you need to pick my ass up. You think I want to go to Hebrew school and learn Hebrew, Like, I'm not down with that at all. So yeah, and I remember Dan saying, oh god, your parents are's so traumatizing

not being picked up from school. I'm like, damn, none of us were picked up from school and we're all fine. He goes, no, that's that's abandonment. And I'm like, well that seems dramatic. And then you come around to the notion You're like, that was abandonment. Well, yeah, and you

remember those things. So many people kept asking me how did you remember all these things in the book, because you're write so clearly about them, and like, you remember, I remember being five years old and my mother, my mother dropped me off to kindergarten, which was up this

big hill and my sisters went to the school. I could see it from the top of the hill, and I walked my little five year old self walked up and we didn't have kindergarten that day, and my motherhood drove away and went to work, and I just sat there. And I remember it clear as day, because you remember trauma, you don't remember everyday normalcy. Yeah, And I remember sitting there and thinking, should I walk down the hill and tells an adult? And I just sat there till three

pm until she came to pick me up. And this was before phones everybody, okay, So she sat there doing fucking nothing. For that reminds me of my sister. My sister, for two weeks went to school with my three brothers. They were going to the elementary school. They were all a year apart. My sister started going with them, and after two weeks the school called my mother and they're like, your daughter is four. She can't be in school with your with your sons. And my mom was like, oh,

she can't. It's like what, But that's like my mom. She never even told us in school, she just dropped us. Yeah, that's a funny story. I mean, oh, my God and they and then you basically picked your classroom. You're like, I guess I'll be in this. I guess I'll be in A six or whatever it was six A Okay, Catherine, what do we have? I love this? Our last question comes from Renee Dear Chelsea. She's not this one's just an email. She's in Australia, so the timing is a

little Yes, that's good, right. I shouldn't have you read this. I'm a thirty three year I'm a thirty three year old primary school teacher from Melbourne. Your podcast was my saving grace through lockdown and it helped me realize my worth, strength and independence. For that, I'm incredibly grateful. I have an incredible boyfriend who have been with for five years. This October we plan on rock climbing around the world for two years starting this December. There's just one problem.

I've dreamed about getting married since I was six years old, and it means nothing to him. My parents have been happily married for forty seven years. His separated when he was eighteen. Here's some of our history. He broke up with me a week after we first got together because he panicked and thought he was making a big mistake. I was the first person in over ten years he's been in a relationship with. He always tells me he adores me and wants to spend the rest of his

life with me. It happened again on our fourth anniversary last year, when I jokingly asked him if he'd ever want to marry me quote one day, he paused and said he doesn't believe in it. Three days later, he broke up with me, saying we were two different and we wanted different things. Over the next two days, we had the best conversations as we cried together each time he felt he was making a big mistake by ending it. He apologized, and two days later we were back on.

He said he'd think about marriage and he still wants to spend the rest of his life with me. Over six months have passed, and there are times when I fall asleep crying because I feel so heartbroken that he doesn't feel the same about this form of commitment. There's no doubt that he adores me and means everything he says. He also assures me that he's not going to break up with me again when he panics. I also don't want him to marry me one day just to shut

me up. I'm incredibly flexible in our relationship and committed to making him happy. I always wanted kids and to get married. Kids are maybe for us, but I'm not willing to sacrifice marriage too. I believe he's got some unresolved issues from his childhood. He's avoidant, and I'm anxious. Individual or couple's counseling is off the table. He's one chapter into our relationship book, my psychologist suggested, but he's

not invested. We're about to explore putting my name on the loan for his house that we just finished renovating. This is a huge step for him. Nothing in his life shows me that i'm his quote life partner. Besides us living together, I don't know how I can feel secure and get peace of mind before we travel together. Oh wise one, please help yours truly run a Holy moly, how how old did they say? Did they say? She's thirty three? And I believe he's about the same age. Okay, so,

first of all, there's so many red flags. I'm sorry, I hate to say this. There are so many red flags. And you can talk all you want, but he has to show you and he hasn't so far. He's saying I'll never do this and I'll never do that, and I want this and I want that, but he's not giving what you want. And you both have very different views on how you want to live your adult lives. You definitely don't want to get married to a man who doesn't believe in marriage. Now, marriage isn't everything. I

never wanted to get married. You know, some people just love being partners and that's great, but it sounds like you really want to be married. Then you said, I always envisioned my life married with children. He doesn't want children, but but I won't app not having marriage. Like already, there's so many red flags going up that this is not your life partner. This might have been a moment partner unless you can get into therapy and figure it out.

I think these are going to keep coming up every time. Well also, I think she said therapy is off the table. Why is therapy off the tape? He's not interested in going to therapy. That is a big red flag. And I agree with Julianna that there was like there are multiple red flags because breaking up with you a he freaked out after you know what, a week of dating you or some short amount of time and broke up with you and then did it again when you brought

up marriage at four years, Like, that's that's deep into it. Yeah, you've been together four years, so like that's. Yes, of course he has emotional trauma from his childhood. We all do. But if he's not willing to do that work, then you shouldn't be willing to sacrifice something that means that much to you. I agree with Julianna marriages and everything. I don't care about being married, but if it matters to you, that is what is important. That is paramount

to his thoughts. And you being excited that he's going to put your name on his loan for the house is also a red flag because that is not a sign of anything, like, if anything, you're setting yourself up to possibly be responsible for his loan, you know, without any commitment from him. So I don't know why that's a good idea. Also, something in your letter really struck me.

You said, the last six months you go to bed crying. Yeah, you're about to go on a two year rock climbing trip with this person, so you're only going to have that person in your life. I want to stop you. I know this sounds awful and I probably shouldn't say this, but you're thirty three and I know he seems like the love of your life. Right now, you have a

huge life in front of you. Before you go rock climbing with this guy, you have got to figure out your stuff and get him into therapy with you to find out if this is a trip you want to take for two years. Absolutely, and if somebody is so intransigent that they will not commit to going to therapy to figure out the very I guarantee you if you put it on the table to him and say I cannot move forward with this relationship unless you go into counseling,

I guarantee you he'll go. And if he doesn't, then that is exactly the sign you need to move on. Yeah, and I know this is hard to hear. I understand we've all been in love and thought that this person was the person. But this person isn't showing you that they're your person. Because when you fall in love with everyone, Hey, I don't, I don't. I would prefer not to get married my boyfriend right now, all he wants to do is talk about getting married I will marry him because

it's so important to him, because I love him. At some point I'll do that, you know, so so like. But those are the compromises you make for people that you're in love with. You don't just have your set of rules and then are in transigent about everything else. You have to meet people in the middle, and you're bending over backwards in a relationship where he's not doing the same. And I'm sure you're thinking in your mind right now, well, I didn't list all the things he

does for you. It doesn't matter. If being married for you is that important, then he has to show up in that way for you. And then you can also and consider what why is marriage so important to you? Maybe it isn't as important as you think. But as long as you feel that way and he's not meeting you halfway, then then there really is nothing to talk about. And yes, going to bed crying and all of that is not that that doesn't mean you're with the right person.

That means you're with the wrong person. So I just have to say I was with a guy who I was so madly in love with, and we were dating for two weeks. I mean, we were never apart, and then all of a sudden, one day he just said he panicked, and he goes, I need a week away from you. And I was twenty five, and I was like okay, and then cried my eyes out for two weeks, like totally sobbing my eyes out. Didn't know why he needed time away from me. I didn't know what was

going on. And then he just showed up at my door after the two weeks was up as if nothing had happened, and I was so happy to see him because I was so in love with him. That is not red flag number one. That is red flag whole relationship, because it kept happening over and over again. We were together for ten years. Believe me, it happened all the time, and I kept thinking, it's a phase, it's at this I get gave it excuses, and I was crying all the time at night, not knowing what was going on

because he had to deal with his own ship. He couldn't deal in a relation. You cannot be in a healthy relationship until you have made yourself healthy. Yeah, and that is the truth. And it sounds like this guy needs to make himself healthy. He probably has a lot of separation issues. If he's from divorced parents, he needs to get help before he can meet you equally in this relationship because right now it does not sound equal.

And trust me when I say the problems will get bigger. Yes. Also, him getting healthy is one thing, but you being in this relationship is also an indicator that you're not very healthy, you know, or as healthy as you can be, because you're tolerating this, and you need to stand up for yourself and put your foot down, like if this isn't acceptable for you, then it's not acceptable for you, and

you have to figure out why you're tolerating it. You said yourself that he's an avoidance and you're an anxious That means that the dynamic is unhealthy because anxious people should never be with avoidance. They feed off of you. They feed off of your neediness because that's how they perceive it as neediness. You need to get married, You need to have your name on the You need me to be committed to you. That dynamic will never shift until you shift it, and staying in the relationship, you

won't shift anything. I think what you just said, Chelsea is the most valuable thing you could say to any woman in a relationship like this, what do you you need to put yourself first? Why are you in this relationship where you're not happy? We never look at that, And I think that's exactly it. Once you start going there, you're going to figure it out for yourself. But don't settle. Yeah, and just just don't confuse you thinking you're in love with someone as the love of your life. You don't

know what's coming. I've I thought that multiple times in my life, that I was with the love of my life and guess what I wasn't And Julianna, I think you felt that way. As my mother used said collar crying in this horrible relations she'd be like, I don't understand you. There's so many men out there. Yeah, I know, and it doesn't feel like that at the point. At the time, you feel like this is your only person, it's your whole world, and it's hard to see beyond

the circumstance you're in currently. But I promise you there are billions of people out there and you have no idea what's coming your way. When you say to the universe, these are my standards and this is what I'm going to going to be willing to tolerate. I guarantee your whole world changes. It'll change. And this is what I want, right down on a piece of paper, what you want, and then really be truthful. Can he give that to you? Because if he can't, I bet you dollars to donuts,

someone else can dollars to donuts. You heard it here for first. I haven't heard that in a long time. Thank you for revisiting that phrase, dollars to donuts. So sorry about the bad feedback. I mean, it's not bad feedback. It's good feedback, but it's not going to be what you want to hear. But keep in touch with us and let us know what happens, let us know if you made any big moves. Take care of yourself first. Yes, please take care of yourself because you can't rely on

another person to do that for you. Good luck, and with that, we'll take a quick break and be right back with Julianna and Chelsea and we're back. Well, Julianna, do you have any advice you'd like to get from Chelsea? I do medical advice. It's medical ish, Dr Chelsea Handler. So I read your book and I was really fascinated by the ayahuasca chapter. Also because I've had a few friends who have done it and who have told me about it. Now, I am not a person. I've never

been good on pot. I've tried all my friends who do gummy, They're like, you haven't had the right kind. Every time I do it, it just doesn't bode well with me. But the idea of ayahuasca kind of intrigues me. So I want to ask cue, one, would you do it again? Two? Would you advise someone who has not? Like I've never done ascid? I don't like tripping really right.

I don't like being not in control. Like what I love about having a margarita is I know I can have two and that's my limit, and then I drink some water and I'm fine. You know, I can monitor that. I don't like being I get scared to be out of control. But I think it would be really good for me. And what you described about you and your sister on the beach together, I thought, oh my god, I want to I want to see where my trip goes.

What would you say to someone who's never tried it, Honestly, knowing you as I know you, I would say, you're a pretty healthy person and that you're pretty even keeled and stable, and I would say that you don't need to do something like that. I would say that that is for people who are really searching and are really haven't resolved any of their childhood trauma. And I feel like you have and that you are in a good

state of mind. And while it can open up doors and bring you to different places, I don't think it's worth the anxiety of leading up to it. Being a type a personality like you are, I don't think it's worth it. There's vomiting involved, people ship their pants, You're throwing up in a bucket, there's a shaman like can

It can be very intense. And with somebody who doesn't have a tolerance for drugs, it's it's not necessary, Like I would say it if you were really in a bad place or you needed to get clarity on something. But I feel like you have a lot of clarity and you are in a really good place, and I just would say it's unnecessary. Dr Chelsea, I feel so relieved that I don't have to go down that path. Let's put this on the record for the first time,

I'm advising somebody to not do drugs. Actually this isn't the first time, but I would have to be honest with you because you just don't need it, you really do. I love that answer. I really was expecting something else. Yeah, I wouldn't you know what, to tell you the truth. I don't think i'll do it again either. I mean, I've always had groups of girlfriends that want to do these ayahuasca retreats, and I always say I'll do it.

But if I hadn't been doing it on camera, I wouldn't have done it either, because I you know it is. It was a beautiful experience, and I'm just going to leave it at that. I don't need to tempt my fate again. I love it. Thank you. I'm not gonna that's one thing checked off my list. I don't have to do it. I really appreciate it. You are an absolute delight. I just love you. I adore you. You're such a You're such a positive and ebulliant person to have around, and I just love seeing you every time

I get to see you. So I'm so psyched that you're on the podcast and then we got to do in a person I'm so just listeners. Just so you know, I listened to Chelsea's podcast since its inception while I was alone in my kitchen and lockdown cooking. It felt so good to hear people I love and respect and can make me laugh. And I literally text Chelsea after almost like I listen to an episode and not text on Oh my god, you had so and so on. So I'm a huge fan, you know, Thank you, Thank you,

and make sure you read Sunshine Girl. And you can always find Julianna on the Morning Show currently, and then you can just go back and rent all of the Good Wife. What's that on Hulu? You don't have to rent it. I'm sure it's on somewhere. Yeah, yeah, Netflix, Netflix is how they're pronouncing it now. But thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me. It was a blast. So if you'd like to ask Chelsea a question, email us at Dear Chelsea Project at gmail dot com.