Making An Escape Plan with Chelsea + Catherine

Good afternoon, everybody. I don't know why I say good afternoon when us start days. I'm Chelsea, Hi, what's happening? What's happening, Catherine? So many shit is happening on my end of things. I just can't even keep up.

Okay, I need a little bit of advice. I am finding that I'm having such a hard time making a decision on stuff for my house, and I think it's because I just feel like I have to search the depth and breadth of the Internet for every possible choice of something, whether it's like new dog crates for the dogs, or a new sofa or whatever it is that I need next. I'm just having such a hard time with the limitless possibilities before I can make a decision. What do I do?

Listen, when you make a decision, when you are decisive, I'm very decisive. I don't like really. I go to my design meetings for my new house and I am in and out of there in forty minutes. I pick, Tyle, I pick because Listen, whatever you buy is gonna make your You're gonna forget about all the other options.

That's true, and it's to be fine. It's gonna be the right.

One, and unless you make a huge mistake, which you can't with a doggy crate. It's not like you're picking out marble. Yeah you know what I mean. Yeah, you're not gonna make a big mistake. So when you're ever you're indecisive. I always feel like, just make a decision and then that decision becomes the right decision and commit to it.

Yeah.

I all of the decisions of the Internet are really troubling to me.

When you're letting the internet run you, I.

Am and I need to run the internet, so.

I don't go online. That's actually for the w I don't have any Wi Fi at my house, so I can't even look.

I've been deleting Instagram. I just like during the week for the most part, I just have it deleted because if it's on my phone, Chelsea, I just pick it up and then I get.

Lest oh that's smart, how do you delete it? So you delete it and you take it down and then for the week.

Yeah, and so your your Instagram is still there. But I just like have the app off of my phone, so like if I need to look at it, like look something up for work, I've got it on my iPad. But I don't have my iPad sitting next to me all of the time. What I find is, even when I don't have it on there, without even thinking, I do it all.

The time too. Just do it, Okay, so you can delete it and then you get back your app like okay. So I think that's smart and you should apply that to your shopping.

Yeah.

I think I need to set myself like a timer and be like, you can look for an hour and then it's.

Talking cret like what what what?

But it's like it's a it's a symptom of so many different things.

It is a symptom. But then you're being run by that, you know what I mean? The Internet is running you.

Yeah.

Are you gonna let that happen?

Now?

I'm not gonna let it happen.

Chelsea.

We've added second shows. Second shows now to Portland, Los Angeles, the Pantagious, Boston Backwang Center, and I've added second shows New York, Seattle, DC. Go to Chelsea Hammler dot com. This tour has been the most fun. It's so fucking silly. Wait till you see me showing you how I masturbated when I was eight years old.

Do you bring a ladle on stage.

I don't bring the label on stage, but I demonstrate what I did for about a year of my life when I found out about my Pikachu and all of the pleasure it could offer me. Oh and one city, I want to do a special shout out for is Long Island because we added a show at this It's a little show. It's only a thousand seats called the Clubhouse in East Hampton. So I want to promote that in case anybody here is in the Hampton's over the summer, because that is going to be a nice intimate show.

Oh that sounds so lovely. I love a small show.

I do too, and I do it. I mean it's nice, you know, for your ego to have bigger crowds. So

Oh yes, you were starting to read this.

It's really really transportive. It takes you to another place. It's it's mystical, it's beautiful, and it makes you just appreciate the world we live in and that people can write these stories that are so beautiful.

Just finished reading Malibu Rising, which is by the same author of Daisy Jones on the sixth, but I loved it. You just see her setting up all these different characters and all these different scenarios and then like halfway through the book, she just starts knocking them down like Domino's and it's fantastic. It's a really fun read. It's an easy read, and it's nice before bedtime reading.

I finished that book Lucky You, which I think I recommended. That was a good book.

That's where I'm reading about.

That was about this woman, this Kenyan girl. She grows up with a very overbearing mother and she lives with her like three aunts and I don't know why I said aunts, aunts is how I say, and her grandmother and she doesn't know anything about her father. She finds out something about her father later in life that her mother kept from her, which is very disruptive to her because she kind of felt like nobody told her the truth. Then she gets accepted to Barnard College in New York.

I love that. I love that. Yeah, Okay, so a few years ago I decided not to waste my one precious life finishing books that I wasn't enjoying. What's your benchmark for that?

Do you like always.

Finish a book? Do you give a book like fifty or one hundred pages.

I like to give it one hundred pages. I recently did put a book down. I won't say what it is because that's not nice, but it was just chick lit, and I don't like that. I like a little bit more elevated. I want to be learning stuff. I want I need to be looking up words when I'm reading. Yeah, I need to see words that I don't know the meeting of, and if it's historical, I will never not finish it because I feel like I owe that to society.

Yeah, and to yourself too. You know you are loves continuing education.

Yes, I do. I do.

I do well, Chelsea. I have some updates speaking of continuing the conversation A from way back in our Jamie Greenberg episode.

She had shout out to Jamie. She listens every week.

I love her so much.

Now I haven't seen her in weeks though I'm going through withdrawals.

I feel like she is the person that like every person who meets her is probably like I could be besties with her. She's just so fun by the way.

I like your nails. You don't have the pointy ones now? No, I like that.

I'm flat.

Yeah, I wish Jamie would do that. That's why I haven't seen her actually, because of her nails. I have a restraining order against her until she starts going oh natural again.

I feel like I accidentally gave myself like like nineties alien nail.

No, I like them, Okay, I like them. I mean the twenty one I find tricky. Yeah, how do you give a hand job like that?

Very carefully?

I like that you guys are still giving each other hand jobs.

No one's doing that, that's true, though, I mean I don't know.

He's blushing, she's blushing, and I'm single as usual.

So a from our Jamie Greenberg episode, she had sort of like self medicated with self help and hadn't seen a therapist ever and was wondering how to start therapy as an adult. Is how she had praised it. This is a long overdue follow up, but it took me a few months to get started with therapy, and I wanted to have a good number of sessions under my belt before sending this to know that I've truly committed. Since hearing the episode. I've started to meet with a

Oh, that's cute. You know, That's what everybody needs is like a witness. Sometimes you just need somebody to witness what happened to you. And you just have to tell somebody. And the therapeutic value of that is so underrated. And by the way, it's starting therapy as an adult who cares. When you started, it doesn't matter. It's an adjustment, of course, like as she mentioned in her letter. But the other thing to remember is I heard Brene Brown say this.

A family friend of ours who she had been in her childhood through like worst case scenario like parents were in a cult. There was tons of sexual abuse, like really awful, awful stuff, and she said the same thing, like when you get to your thirties, everything you have to protect you grumbles, like none of it works anymore.

Yeah, like when my parents didn't pick me up from Haber School or regular school or from any functions really, and we're just I remember telling Dan Siegel about it and him saying, that's a neglect, like that you were abandoned. And I'm like, well, no, it's not that serious. He goes, No, you've convinced yourself it's not that serious. He goes, it is serious. You're a little girl waiting for your father to pick you up from school and he did show

Yeah. Well, this is a follow up from Dana. I remember who had the creepy.

Steps ahah yeah yeah yeah, yeah yeah yes.

And we had read on the podcast a follow up from someone else who was like, this could be the beginning mental health stuff as well. So Dana says, thank you so much for sharing the follow ups from other callers. I actually agree that it's possible this is the onset of mental illness in my steps on. After thinking about it some more, I remember that his maternal grandmother was mentally ill, as well as one of his uncles, which is why it's so important to talk about this stuff

Thanks Corey exactly, and I did the math of like when he emailed in, and I was like, I think it was exactly like three mins.

That's what I think from just doing the math.

Oh that's funny.

Yeah, yeah, Well, Chelsea, we're going to head into our calling in backup segment with Betterhelp, who was sponsoring this segment, and today Courtney Cope is joining US licensed marriage family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at Betterhelp. Hi Courtney, Hi, Courtney, Hi, great to see you both. Hi well, Angela writes dear Chelsea. Before I go any further, I just want to point out that I love my mother in law dearly, but I really could use some advice on how to deal

Well, Angela, I can't tell you how many therapy sessions I've had that started off with. First of all, I want to point out that I love my mother in law.

Dear relief but.

So super common. I don't think this is a question about grief. This is really a question about this woman is feeling trapped and not like she can do anything about the situation, or that her efforts to change it

Yeah, I think that's good advice because you do need like a team member because she does feel so trapped, like the idea of having to hang out with somebody that's such a debbie downer and knowing that it's an obligation of yours by way of marriage isn't fair. It's just not only to a degree and you've reached your limit.

It sounds like right, And the general consensus among most couples therapy experts is that it's really important that an adult child, when they're now engaging in an intimate adult relationship like a marriage, a domestic partnership, they have to choose their partner over their parent. And what I mean by that is if something isn't working for their partner or something's affecting their partner, they have to prioritize their partner's feelings over their parents in order to be able

Yeah, absolutely, because it is his responsibility to get the situation started. You know, it's his mom.

When that moment comes and you're like sitting around the table talking about literally the weather, and she breaks down in tears, what's the move? I mean, my instinct is to be like, I'm going to give you a couple minutes, like they're there, I'm going to give you a couple of minutes and walk away. But like that also feels a little icy cold from me, what's the move to, like break the cycle that she knows is coming.

Right?

In an ideal world, we would have husband and wife ahead of time, deciding, like, hey, if mom starts crying or mother in law starts crying at this visit, husband is going to step in and he's gonna take over say something. Wife can excuse herself whatever it is, but let's just say it's just her and mother in law, right. I don't think there's anything wrong with deciding ahead of time. What do I have capacity for if I don't want to go down this road for more than fifteen seconds

Yeah, have you thought about taking your mother skiing?

I hear Chelsea's good at that. So they definitely want to do things that are not just sitting and staring at you each other across from their cup of tea, right, because that's going to invite probably conversations that they don't want to have. So thinking ahead of time of what they could do, having a plan with her husband that if it does come up, what's he going to do

Courtney Cope, thank you. Courtney is a licensed marriage and family therapist and principal clinical operations manager at Betterhelp. And of course, thank you again to Better Help for sponsoring calling him back up.

Thanks so much for having me.

Thanks Cording.

Thanks Well, let's take a quick break and we'll be back with some callers.

Okay, and we are back.

We are back.

I've decided to start changing the way I say we're back because it's starting to annoy me.

That's all right, someone wrote in They're like, you know, you guys don't have to announce it. I'm like, but it's the bit for the people who are in the room. There's no actual break.

Tell that person a file a lawsuit. If I don't like it, I will, I will.

So.

Our first email comes from Zach. Zach says, I first want to say how much of a fan I am of your podcast and all that you do. I loved seeing I read Rocks Chelsea. Now onto my question. I just turned thirty three, recently married my husband, and have an overall great life. However, now that I'm getting older, I realized that I I still do not really know who I am. I tend to come off timid, self conscious,

Too?

Kindest regards, Zachary Reading.

I reading is an answer to everything that It tells you what you're interested in, what makes you learn. It shows you your aptitude for growth and interest in other cultures and situations that are different than you. And it really doesn't matter what you read, but you should read stuff that isn't like your life like. It doesn't matter if you're reading fiction or nonfiction, or magazines or newspapers.

Yeah, I love that. I love that, And there's a certain lont of like fake it till you make it too. I think confidence is something that when you walk into a room and even if you just tell yourself like I'm confident I deserve to be here, I think that's

I love that.

Yeah, that's a great idea. I could never get away with something like that because my whole world revolves around me. So my family would be like, are you fucking kidding me? More with you? But that is a great exercise for anybody to do, because I would love to get an email like that from one of my.

Friends totally, and you'd be like, here's all the things are great at because other people's experience of us sometimes sometimes there's a lot more positive than what we have going on inside or the timidity we might have going right outside.

Right and expanding your knowledge as always, Like when I talk about reading so much, it's because a it gives you something to discuss, right, You can always bring that up in a conversation, so it's a conversation starter. You know, sometimes our brains shut down when we're low or depressed

I know.

I just I should just go to a biblioteca and register myself as as a permanent librarian. That's what will make me happy. Maybe I'll do that in Spain in my old age. I'll become a librarian at a bibliotecha when I finally get command over the Spanish language.

Reading in Spanish is a whole other thing. I always have to look up a lot of things. Yeah, it's, you know, different than conversation. Our first caller today is Beth. She is forty one. She's a personal trainer. She says, I met a guy four months ago on a dating app. There were red flags at first, like him being in prison a decade ago for two years for trespassing supposedly which didn't make sense to me, and that he didn't have any friends However, we connected quickly and things moved

It's a gross person.

Yep. It seems like he's already moved in. I even saw him when he was going to his car in my garage and I was in my car leaving for work. We made eye contact as I drove by. He's technically not even allowed to be parked in my garage because he's not a resident, but my complex doesn't do anything about it, even though I reported him. I've also seen him from a far walking her dog in the complex.

Now, Hi, sorry that you had to deal with such a scumbag. He's so disgusting.

I thank you.

I'm still dealing with it.

I know, I know.

I have two thoughts. I don't think you should move because this relationship is not going to last. He's unstable and he's just siphoning off of whomever is available. But do you feel like he could potentially be a dangerous person?

I don't think so.

What was he in prison for?

Again? He says trustpassing, but I mean he's in prison for trustpassing for two years.

I don't know. I think I think he's lying.

I think you should look that up and find out. There's got to be a public record of what he served time for.

Yeah, I tried, but it's I think it's over ten years, so I'm not sure if I can get those records.

I don't think he's dangerous. I think he would have done something by now.

I did put like a ring camera on my door, and I have a tesla of the records. You know, if you go near my car. Oh good, I feel safe in that respect.

Okay, Yeah, I mean, if he's getting Molly on the weekends. That usually doesn't lead to danger, but I mean, who knows, you know, I mean alcohol cocaine does. So I don't think you should move. Okay, it doesn't sound like you're in danger. You're just it's very irritating for you to have to deal with this. And then, but you know what kind of person he is, he will definitely do the same thing with this woman. It will happen and he will be gone.

Used to be my friend.

I mean she lives in my complex too, and she was my friend for like two years. I hear from other people she's saying, I mean, I know this just make herself feel better. Then we were never friends.

Oh yeah, so she's not open having a conversation with you, right.

Yeah, I don't think so. I mean I blocked her. I don't want to deal with her, but I still have to.

Also, she lives in my complex too, so it's like I'd risk running into her as well.

I think, just we really play the high road on this one. Do not interact with them. You don't have to have any business with them. Who cares what she's saying? Who cares what she'll have us to be singing a different tune when she gets sucked over by him. I assure you that she will be knocking on your door to commiserate about the idiot that you both dated, but it'll be too late by then. Just I know, it's an icky situation, but it's not permanent. It's not gonna

Yeah right, I'm hoping. I'm hoping that's the case. Everyone says it's not gonna last.

It's just like it's like he's been I just see his car in my garage and it's not supposed to be there, but my complex is not doing anything about it all the time.

It's just always there.

It does feel very con artist, like I'm glad that you said that. Did he ask you for money or like have you pay for stuff or that sort of thing.

It seemed like he was getting there.

But I think also that he knew he couldn't scam me like that, so that's why he stopped it with me. And he knows like she's more vulnerable, uh huh, and he can get away with it with her. That's what it seems like, I mean, he was also talking about moving in with me too it right away.

Yeah, I think I feel like this guy is like doesn't have a home, and he's just like moving in with whatever girl will have him.

It seems though.

I mean I've been to his apartment, I mean before, but I don't know.

It could be.

But I mean, if there is any danger, if there at any point you feel like you're in danger, you really have to engage the police. Yeah, you can't take a risk like that and think, oh, if somebody's not dangerous, that's what a lot of people think that about a lot of people, and with his record and not knowing why he was in prison and his drug use and

I don't think it's to go that I have to move.

No, no, don't do it.

Don't talk.

I agree with Chelsea, like if you do start feeling unsafe where he's approaching you or threatening you, then like it's time for a restraining order. But like that isn't necessarily going to keep him away, but it would be something you could bring to your apartment complex and say, like, I have this legal document he can't park here, da da da. But that's I think down the road.

Other than that, I think you're not gonna have to deal with him in a couple of months. I hope.

So. I mean, it's been like two weeks and I'm like just hoping that this falls apart soon.

Go on a vacation, get out of here.

At break. Thank you.

Yeah, if you can, all right, we'll keep us posted.

Yeah, let us know what happens.

I will take care.

Thank you so much. Love you guys.

You love me too.

Bye Bye.

That's unfortunate, I know, isn't that creepy?

I'm like, oh awful.

Yeah, I don't know how i'd feel about having to see somebody all the time, but when you know somebody is such a loser, it kind of takes the sting out of the breakup. Yeah, dated an idiot.

Like you said, It's just like, thank goodness, she figured out what was going on soon enough and got away from him. Because I don't know people like that. They're pretty scary.

I mean, cocaine and Molly on the weekend is like maybe one weekend. Like the casualness of saying that is ridiculous.

Clearly not every weekend. Maybe not every weekend.

I mean, Molly's fine, but cocaine is another story. I speak from experience.

Britney says, Dear Chelsea, my younger sister and I have always been very close, even though we've lived in different states for six years. We talk every day and tell each other everything cute. She's my best friend. Here's the problem. She has a shit husband.

She's gonna happen right.

He's a cheating, gaslighting narcissist. They got married when they were eighteen, when he enlisted in the army. They moved out of state and had their first kid when they were nineteen. They're now twenty four and have three kids under four. Before she got pregnant with her first kid, she found out that her husband was active on dating websites. She confronted him, they quote worked it out, and continued

Hi, Brittany Hi. So what's the rest of your family? Do you have other siblings parents?

Yeah?

I have an older brother, a younger brother, and then my sister's the youngest.

And is there any talk of maybe all of you having some sort of like a quasi intervention with her.

No. I mean we're all really close, but nobody else besides me really gets involved in her situation. She doesn't really tell anybody anything, So I'm kind of the middleman within the whole situation. So she's kind of told my parents a little bit of what's going on, but they don't know in detail because she's embarrassed frankly by the whole situation, So they only know bits and pieces. But they know she needs out as well. But I'm really the only one who speaks out on it.

And do you think that you could corral your brothers?

They just honestly don't really care that much. I think they know, like they want her to get out and they want her to be happy, but I think they're just more reserved and quiet in that sense. And Okay, honestly, I don't think she values their opinion enough to really make a difference.

Well they're men, so that makes sense, right right, Yeah, no offense, Brad. I think maybe you should have a conversation with your parents right to try and do something together, like sit her down with the three of you, like, we can't watch you go through your life like this, and the impact that this relationship, the damaging impact that this relationship is going to have on her children and they self esteem that these kids grow up with, and the way they see their mother tree and remaining in

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

You know, cheating, You can make an argument that that's abusive or not, but the gas lighting like that is straight up but.

Repetitive cheating is.

Yeah, it's absolutely And I wonder if she understands it in that context of like you are being abused. It takes someone seven times to get out of this relationship. I know you know, you and I had even talked about like having her potentially common move in with you, and that that's something you've expressed you would be open to, right exactly.

That's just a heart scenario because she does have three children, and they would have in Washington State and I'm in California. So the custody thing is a huge issue. I think he would make that a living hell for her because he's even threatened in the past like you're not going to see your kid, you don't make any money. I make all the money there, Like there's no way you'd get custody, which is bogus. I mean that he just doesn't know what he's talking about, but it terrifies her.

Yeah, and so she doesn't.

Have a job, right, No, she's stay home mom.

And is there any possibility of you being able to move up there?

No?

My husband right now, he's we're locked in where we're at for at least another five years. So we've talked about it in the past, but it's just not a possibility right now.

Okay.

I do you think it's important to have a plan because you know this is not going to not happen again. It's going to happen again. And I think because you know what's going to happen again, you can have a plan and maybe that is when this happens again. I fly up, I go get her. She stays with us for two weeks, having a plan in place where it's like a specific amount of time that's enough for her to sort of like get her head a little bit right and see, oh, there are other options for me.

They in a position your parents to help financially not so much, but they would do anything for her.

There was even a situation, I think a couple years ago where my dad was about to sign a lease for an apartment for the town I live, so she was going to come down here and figure out this stuff with the kids later, and he was about to sign it and figure all that out, even though he can't really afford it. And then a few days went by and she's like, oh, no, we're good. Now, we're working on it. We're going to go to therapy and all that, and then therapy never happens, and it's just

I guess what she here is a home. Nobody else is going to want you, like you can ever find anybody as as me.

She needs to read Untamed by Glennon Doyle or read one of Brene Brown's books about the value that you have in yourself. I mean, this guy is just I can't understand why you're so upset. It's like, it's upseting to see your sister diminished in this way and to be devalued in this way, and not to have confidence in her ability. She has her whole life ahead of her, and she's choosing to remain in this instead of taking the you know, a brave leap, and she needs information.

Yeah, right, which is what I've tried.

And honestly, he's kind of a scary human, like I don't know what he's capable of, and like I said, he's super narcissistic. He was in the army for four years. He wants to be a police officer eventually, and she does.

I wouldn't put it past.

So it doesn't it sounds it sounds to me, like that's in the future, Like that's a definite possibility.

Yeah, Especially he's just so controlling of her, and he thinks he can kick her out whenever he wants, and he's just the ruler of her life. So like it's only a matter of time before things get physical in my mind, you know. And I've told her that too, and she's like, yeah, I know, I don't ever think he would, But I'm like, you never, you never think they would, you.

Know, Yeah, does he kick her out on a semiregular basis.

So this last time they had a tip a couple of weeks ago, was because she went out with a friend and ended up going back to this friend's house and her boyfriend's roommate was or something. Her boyfriend's friend was there, so he thought she was cheating, even though she never would. And he's like projecting all these things he's done to her.

Right that he thinks she would do back.

And so that whole situation, he drove like two hours or something to go pick her up in the middle. Then I dragged her home, threw a suitcase at her, said pack your shit. You're getting out of my house, and you're not going to see your daughters for a few days. So he's just like he thinks he controls everything, even though.

And did she go, She yeah, she left.

She stayed with my brother actually lives a few miles from her, so she stayed with him for a couple of nights. She actually went to see a lawyer and figure out what her rights are and what her next step should be. And the lawyer was so confident that he could never take the kids away from her because it's just not factual. Yeah, and then yeah, she had the divorce papers ready to be filled out and everything,

No, no, no, no, this is somebody that is going to abuse your sister for sure. This has all the writing on the wall, like what it's leading up to. That example right there is all you need to know. Like, you have got to get her to believe that it is time to move out for her safety. And she already got she already had a lawyer, Like you have to do everything you can to get her out of that situation.

Yeah, yeah, and continuing to let her know like we're here, will do whatever. You know. Maybe it's not like your parents will be in with a bunch of money because that's not possible for them, but will do whatever we need to do to make sure you and your kids are supported.

I mean if even if you guys can all pull money together, you know, everyone makes whatever contribution they can in order for her to afford rent for like the short term until a divorce is happening. But this is a man who is abusive, that example, is crazy and three children. He's going to try and turn them against her, like she's the sooner she gets the fuck out of there, the safer everyone is going to be.

Yeah.

And I've told her that numerous times, especially within the last couple of years, because everything just it keeps progressing, It keeps getting worse. He keeps doing crazier things that I never thought he'd be possible of. So it's only a matter of time. And when I express these things to her, she's like, yeah, I know, like really soft

Yeah, but he's not a great dad because he's being abusive to his wife, like him going and picking her up two hours away because he's convinced she's cheating on him. That's abusive. Yeah, that isn't a good father. That's disrespecting their mother. He's not a good father. She thinks that he's a good father because that's how she's rationalizing it.

And also, like, this is what abusers do. When it is good, it feels you're over the moon, and then they take you into the depths of despair. This is what they do. And this is also a person who it sounds like probably has access to guns and other things like this is this is it's important to get her out and she may not want to go right away. And I know you're exhausted from having the same conversation over and over with her, but like you just have to keep telling her I'm here and it's not her

But what am I even saying he needs to get out, she needs to kick him out, But she doesn't seem like she has the tenacity.

To do that.

I just mean, like you mentioned, like she goes back to like get her stuff, and he convinces her, like, no, if she's gone, if she's away from him, you got to keep her away from him and be like, I'll go get your things or somebody one of the brothers goes and gets her things whatever, Because when she has he has access to her, that's when he's going to convince her to come back.

Yeah, exactly, I know.

Is there a way for you? What's your work schedule? Like, like, is there a way for you to go up there and spend like two weeks so that you can actually get her out of the house.

Not at the moment, I just can't afford it right now, unfortunately, And I have a two year old son too, so it's hard for me to pike that time.

What about mom and dad or or a best friend? Is there a best friend in the picture who could maybe do that?

I'm sure he's isolated all of her friends.

You're right, Yeah, I mean, I don't know if he single handedly has, but just her her situation over the years. I think her friends who have gotten kind of close, they see this roller coaster like I'm leaving him.

I'm not. I'm leaving him. I'm not. So I think that.

I mean, I'm still here because I'm her sister. But I feel like if I was kind of a close semi close friend, I probably wouldn't be still, you know, just because she's so wishy washy with that, and like you think you're helping her and then she just does the opposite, and yeah, it's just really hard to continually be there for this.

Yeah, and are you what about your brother's living situation? Like, is that somewhere she could live and move into.

Yeah, So she stayed there for a couple of days a couple of weeks ago, and he's like, he has an ex small extra room, like not room for the kids, but at least for her. And it's only like twenty minutes from where her kids would be, so she has that option too, And he even, you know, he's like, as long as you need, you can stay here. And she just like up and left, and she's like, I'll

But it doesn't compare to the freedom you feel when you leave an abuse her.

I know, I keep trying to tell her that once all that's said and done, like that divorce process isn't going to be forever, and once it's all done and your custody is all settled and everything it's going to be, she's going to be so much happier. But she just doesn't see it that way. She'll agree with me in the moment, and then of course it all goes out the window.

This is a person who's under the influence of what is basically mind control, So you know, you do have to kind of take that into consideration that like her mind is being controlled by another person. But I do think it's worth going back to Chelsea's idea of like having your whole family sit down with her and be like, we want to help you in any way possible. Here

We're here to make a plan if she needs to leave the house, and because he's obviously not going to probably listen to her to get move out. But if she needs to leave the house, she can go in the interim, stay with your brother while she gets on her feet, gets the divorce proceedings going, she will get custody of her children most likely, and then she can figure out what she's going to do for work, or if she's gonna work, or what that dynamic is going

Yeah, I agree.

So I'm sorry that we can't be of more help, but like please.

Just no, no, no, it's great.

I mean, I appreciate the help that you have given me because I've been kind of juggling this, like do I just kind of bite my tongue and let it write itself out and she'll finally realize, Like maybe the next time she'll finally realize and actually leave him because she's been so close. But at this point, it just doesn't seem like it's going to happen. So I'm like, I either need to go all in and say something like you said, or I just need to kind of fall back and let it come in between us and

And you know, I wonder also, is she in therapy by herself?

No, you're willing to, and they have they have talked about it and not have him, don't go with him, just her Okay, yeah, yeah.

It's some self esteem and self worth and an outside person being like, I am brand new to this situation and it's really bad and you need to get away from it.

Right, Yeah, Okay, I'll talk to her about that.

Yeah, it's really hard.

What you're going through is really really hard.

Yeah, it's really hard.

I mean juggling like all my life stresses and everything I'm going through and then help her with hers too, And obviously that's way more serious than anything I'm going through, but it's it's just hard to be there and just watch her continually do it.

It's exhausting.

Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. But keep us posted if there's any way we can help in any way, you know, let us know how it goes. And please just do not give up on your sister.

Okay, I won't.

Okay, Senny, that's love, honey.

Thanks Brittanyekay, thank you guys so much.

Nice to meet you.

Bye O.

That one got me.

That is very upsetting.

It's really tough.

Yeah.

When I was in an abusive relationship in college, it took every single one of my friends from college who knew this person, well, every single one of my girlfriends from high school who didn't know him well but had met him. Everyone in my family separately, all of them saying he's not good for you. This is not a

It's not even a leap of faith, though, you know. I know it feels that way when you're subjected to that kind of like a controlling behavior. But you have to listen to the people in your life that love you. You have to listen to them when they're saying, hey, red flag, red flag. I wish my family would say stuff more often. They don't. They're like, who could you imagine giving you advice? You would never listen to us. I'm like, actually I would. If you're concerned about my

Yeah, And I do think You're right, like being indefatigable, being persistent with love and support, but also saying like there's something better for you is you know, maybe you wouldn't listen the first time, but you might listen the second time or the third time. You know, people do warm up to.

Ideas, you know.

Well, let's talk to Rachel. Rachel's thirty two, and she says, Dear Chelsea, I'm having a hard time getting over a good friend that recently ghosted me. I know she decided to start back up an affair with a married man and stop talking to all of her close friends. Now it seems that she's resumed her normal life and she's let everyone back in except for me. I was one of the few people she spoke to about the affair before, and for a very long time, she held the shame

Rachel Hi, Rachel Hi, Hi.

So we just heard about your friends. It's been about five months, right since you guys have talked, or has been a little longer.

Now, yeah, almost six months.

I can relate to the anger that you're holding on to, and I think the first step A is you acknowledging that you are angry and that you want to let go of it.

Right.

You don't want that running you, and you don't also want your friend her choices, like you saying how you feel or having judgment towards her about it. You know, you could deal with that in one of two ways. You can be like, oh, it's not my place to judge, or you can have very strong opinions. I also have very strong opinions. I also share my very strong opinions with my friends all the time, and many times it

Yeah.

I kind of suspected also that my anger. Anger is a little bit easier of an emotion to feel sometimes, Like I think I'm choosing to feel angry when it's just hard to face how sad of.

A situation is.

I mean, it's incredibly sad to lose a good friend, So I suspect that that's kind of part of it too.

Of course, of course, anger is just like a cover for sadness or her. You know, that's exactly what it is, and you're right to believe that. But I also you know, there's a time, you know, you're morning of friendship. It's been five months and might be another five months, but there's the anger isn't going to serve you. You have to start thinking about her in a loving, kindful way.

You know.

We talk about this loving kindness meditation that I've done. I've done for people with friendships that have ended because I don't want to have any ill will towards them and I don't want that in my body. So it's this thing. I don't know if you do you meditate at all.

I don't, but that sounds interesting.

This is a good meditation for you to start with, because this is an active meditation. You sit and you think about somebody that's just random in the world, and you send them It's like, I wish you a life of ease, I wish you a life of safety, I wish you a life of love, and you send them love.

Right.

You don't have to mean it, but you just practice it. And then you think about someone who's really close to you, like maybe your mother or a sibling or somebody you really love. And then you think about a neutral person, someone that you have no connection with, you know, like somebody at work that you don't care what happens to them either way. And you practice this and it's I send you ease, I send you love, I send you

Yeah, that sounds like something that would really help. I mean, I also think I'm frustrated because I don't feel like I'm an angry person, so this is it. I've kind of been stuck on it, but I think that that could really help.

It could, And sometimes we just have to shake ourselves up out of a rut. And that's what you're in. You're hurt and you're disappointed, and that's totally normal, and guess what, that's part of life. It's going to happen again, probably at some point, and you can't just bemoan the situation over and over again, because then it starts to eat away at you and then you're not giving out your best vibes either, and you want to be available for the people in your life that you are having

Yeah, and I think you are on the right path. Like even recognizing sing that it's really hurt your feeling that this anger is covering up. I think that's really good. Yeah, Chelsea. Any advice for when you know, on the eventuality that she does run into this friend.

I think again, you know, you go to every if you don't feel love towards someone, you have to like fear hate, sadness, all of it. The opposite is love. So if if you just look at her in a loving way, like this is a girl that's going through a really bad time having an affair with a married man that's breaking up getting back together, that that's not

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's really helpful.

And even if she is in that relationship and she resurfaces, you can still receive her with love and grace, except you have boundaries. You're not going to be in that relationship with her because it's too hard for you to watch.

Yeah, like I think you can see her, you can say hi to her, you can give her a hug at whatever this event is that you might run into her, But then you know, you just dripped off and you talk to other people. You know, you don't have to have to get into anything.

Yeah, you don't have to get anything. I think it's always good to just be your best self so that the next time that person sees you, they see, oh wow, I miss that person, or she's doing great, she's not hung up in my situation, she's you know, you know what I mean. It's good to set an example and it elevates you. Also inside, you feel better about yourself when you can handle things with a plum and grace instead of reactive or you know, icing somebody out and

Yeah, I think that.

I mean, I am kind of like centering myself in my reaction to it, like ultimately, she's still maybe in the midst of this very painful situation. So just trying to remember that as well, and I forget that when I get angry about it, because it's really like my reaction to it.

It is it is because you could have no reaction to it. And also another thing is don't bound about her. Don't talk about her at all, not to the friends that have, you know, reconvened with her, Like, don't talk shit about her. That's negative energy as well.

Yeah, definitely, all right, Rachel.

Was that helpful?

Yes, very helpful.

Thank you.

Okay, honey, you'll be fine. Just start that meditation though, do it every morning.

Okay, I'm definitely going to That sounds great.

I wish you a life of ease and then fill it in with joy, safety and love. Thank you, okayans.

Rachel Right, Oh, she's a sweetie. Yeah, let's take a quick break and we will be right back to finish up.

And we're back.

We're back.

Do you see how many different variations I'm trying.

It's so many, Chelsea. Our last email comes from Melanie. She says, I'm a thirty year old American woman from Colorado, originally American woman. I recently moved to New Zealand for a year long research fellowship. I was born to be an ex pat and I've lived in Europe a couple of times already. Though I've only been here in New Zealand a couple of months. I am very happy here and feel in my outdoorsy heart I could stay for

Mane, make a move. But this is the only life you get unless you believe in reincarnation. But even then you don't even know what the fuck's going on.

So yeah, according.

To us as we speak, this is the only life you've got. Yeah, make a move. What do you think to lose?

Do you?

How do you do that?

Do you just kiss him?

Do you talk to him about it?

I did you send like a flirty text or you can say it in person? But like you definitely should do it before Asia so you can find out what that trip's going to be and how can that trip Because also if he's not into you, which I doubt he isn't, he sounds like he is. Usually when there's chemistry it's reciprocated. If a woman feels it anyway, I should say not this doesn't apply to straight men, but

The landlord like that she's a landlord.

I used to do it one of my landlords. And I know that it might not be appropriate for you to ever make a move on me, so I'm just putting it out there. I'm open to a move being made on me.

Uh huh. I love that.

That's cute.

I honestly, I think it's more because he's older than her rather than the landlord thing. The power dynamic language kind of makes me talk.

About the power dynamic because he's the landlord. Yes, that's not a power dynamic. First of all, you.

Know, he probably feels like a little bit of like, oh she's too young for me sort of thing. Yeah, he's a nice guy. That's probably exactly what.

But I guess that is. You know, I shouldn't say it's not a power dynamic, because it is for many people, you know, a power dynamic, the landlord thing, the landlord thing, because that's somebody who's like you're paying rent to.

But he's an ARABNB host, all right.

I just think power dynamic in age. I think that's true unless you're an employer. I mean, unless you have a hold over on one. That's why. Okay, whatever, we can parse what a power dynamic is at another time. But anyway, make your move, sister, Yes, go after it. And that's today's episode. Dear Yelseye. Okay, guys, we have added more shows to my Little Big Bitch Tour because I'm coming all over. We added a second show at the Pantagius in Los Angeles, So that's October twelfth and

Courtney Cope's input is general psychological information based on research and clinical experience. It's intended to be general and informational in nature. It does not represent or indicate an established clinical or professional relationship with those inquiring for guidance. Courtney's feedback is in response to a written question, and therefore