Hi, Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you Hi? I'm good.
I'm staying at a hotel in Los Angeles while I record my audio book. I've been recording my audiobook for the last two days. Today should be the last day if you haven't pre ordered my book, I'll Have What She's Having. It comes out February twenty fifth. And I didn't smoke any weed or drink alcohol for three days leading up to my audiobook recording so that I could
sound as crisp as possible. Because of so many of my fans listen to my audio books, especially for my last audiobook, so I really wanted to.
Deliver on that. That is real commitment, Chelsea, That is commitment. I'm a professional.
Yeah, And you know what, I love listening to a comedy like a book by a comedian read by the author.
Like that's the way to go for those, right right? What else is happening? Updates? Updates? I'm moving back into my house tomorrow.
Oh, the Critics' Choice Awards are now February seventh, Friday night, February seventh, so they've been moved to that date, so I will be hosting those. And the fires are they are almost contained.
I wouldn't say they are fully contained.
Yeah, I think they're mostly contained. It seems like they're not threatening homes much anymore. They're not covering it on the news at least, so not totally out. But now it's sort of like moving into what do we do now and rebuilding. Yeah, you know, something I heard from several people that I think is really important to remember is that, like, you know, we all give to our gofundmes and friends and people, you know, and Red Cross
and all that good stuff. And I think people are going to be realizing what they need a little bit further down the line, like in a few months when they start the rebuilding process or start to sort of get life figured out, Like people may need more help than so like check in, check in on folks.
Absolutely absolutely.
Our guest today is a certified relationship coach, author, teacher, and host of the podcast Jillian on Love. Her new book It Begins with You The Nine Hard Truths about Love that will Change Your Life. It's out now. Please welcome Jillian to Reki. Jillian, Welcome, Welcome to Dear Chelsea.
Thank you for having me.
I love books, all books, and then I love self help books. Especially when I'm in the right mood and I'm in the mood for self help. So your new book, which is called It Begins with You, The Nine Hard Truths about Love that will Change Your Life, is out now. So the nine Hard Truths, I feel like some of them are obvious truths, and then some of them aren't so obvious.
Would you agree with me? Yeah, I absolutely would.
And which ones are not the obvious ones? In your opinion?
It begins with you. I don't think is that obvious to people. It might be obvious to people who actually maybe do a lot of inner work, but I don't think it's that obvious to people. And I think what's not also not obvious is I don't know, the mind is a battlefield. I mean, I think people also know that, but don't really understand how that actually directly impacts.
The quality of your relationships.
Right that making peace with your parents might not be so obvious, What do you think is not?
I think making peace with your parents is not as obvious. I think everyone realizes that that's necessary, even though I do believe it tugs at everybody. You know, everyone has their biggest problems or their parents, whether they know it or not. And then the other one that is, no one is coming to save you. Yeah, no one is coming to save which is bad news. Yeah, yeah, it's bad news, but it's important news for you to know.
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, no one is coming to save you. I mean, you know, I think that I know for me and everyone who I've worked with. It's not necessarily conscious, but a lot of people will say, well, once I meet that person, once I meet the one, then then yeah, then I'll feel okay, Then things will be okay, then my problems will go away. And even if they're not, even on some intellectual level, they know that's not true.
There's so much emphasis on Stockham like this right person and when this right person comes into your life, everything's going to fall into place, and it's not true.
But where did that begin?
Do you think with romanticism?
I mean it seems pretty obvious, but I'm like, who started it?
Like, you know, because.
You know, like centuries ago, I don't think there was this we roam we started as a modern age started to romanticize things because if you were really like an inca or someone who was like living on the land, you're not going to be like I.
Have to meet the love of my life that trying to get.
Fucking by no day know by you know, peeling potatoes that hopefully you found exactly. So I guess it is modern civilization that started to create and monetize it. Really yea nassism, because I mean, I've heard from so we hear so many people this idea. It's such a silly notion. It's like Disneyland esque. It's so someone's gonna come and you're a princess, and then when they see you, you become the princess. But you don't have to evolve, change
or grow at all. It's just going to all be okay once they get once they find you absolutely and then what are they do? You realize how much power that gives another person.
Also get yes, because if you give someone the power to make you, if you think someone else is going to make you happy, they also have the power to make you miserable because you're putting all the emphasis on them. It's all how they make you feel. And fulfillment is an inside job. Like someone who comes into your life. I really believe that the whole point of a relationship is to make life a little bit easier and a
little bit better. There's no point in being a relationship with someone that makes your life more difficult, and a lot of people put up with that. But the reality is is that you know, the real work begins once you're in the relationship. And everyone thinks, well, once I find that person, like that's actually you know, they think that the work.
Is really find it, But well, the work with another person happens once you find the relationship. But the work you could be doing the work all the time on yourself to prepare for a relationship, absolutely absolutely, which is like you know, because right, so both things are true.
Both things are true, but also you can do a lot of work on yourself to prepare yourself for the relationship, which I always think you should be preparing, But you're never going to be fully prepared for what is going to come up in you when you're actually in the relationship, because.
Then why would you even exist on earth if you were here to have no problems.
Yeah, that's not a real thing. And I think that people don't really understand. I know, I didn't really understand what it means to actually to love that love is a practice, love is a verb, Love.
Isn't just a feeling.
And I think that what's embedded in this whole notion of the one in romanticism is that it's just this feeling, and so it should be easy and this person should just make me feel great and I should feel great when I'm around them. When the reality is to be in a relationship long term, you have to wake up every day and make a choice to show up, to make a choice to love this person, to make a
choice to communicate. And the more complicated you are, or the more selfish you are, or the more ill equipped you are to understand what it is to mean to love someone, the more problems you're going to have in a relationship.
Yes, And I also think that when you are talking about relationship and romanticizing that this ideology because I definitely felt it growing up, like Oh, I'm going to meet the one and we're going to have the greatest love story of all time. And then I started to get older and I'm like, wouldn't it be fun to have a lot of love stories instead of just one and
putting all of your eggs into one basket. And the way that our society, specifically America, I mean, I think it's a global thing but it's very American to be like, oh, there's so much emphasis on spending your life with another person.
That's a really long time.
Longer.
They say, if you can live through the next twelve or fifteen years, you can live until you're one hundred and twenty. I already talked about how I don't want that, and you can't afford that, and what am.
I going to be doing stand up when I'm one hundred and eighteen years old, Like fuck, I don't want that.
But because we're extending lives and everything, like it's just of course, it's a beautiful idea and concept, but it's the reality of it is just so silly. It's like, yeah, one in I don't know. I don't know what the stats are. Do you about how many couples make it past fifty years and are happy?
I don't love.
I actually don't know the stats. But I think that if you're going to be with someone for a really long time, let's say, let's just say even over ten years, twenty years, thirty years, you're going to have many relationships. Within the same relationship, You're going to have many if you're married to someone, it's going to be many marriages.
So these are not my words, but Esther prel will say, you know, some people will have many different relationships with different people, and some people will have many different relationships with the same person. And I think that if you want to commit to someone long term, then you have to understand that fundamentally, that it is a choice. That one thing that is absolutely guaranteed in life is that nothing is permanent, right, constant We're in constant flux, and
there's constant change. So to love someone long term is to be able to you have to be able to accept that there's going to be change. And I think fundamentally human beings that we really struggle with that.
Yeah, because changes, change sounds scarier than it sounds like you're losing something.
Yes, so many people, right, change they associate with grief.
Why do you have to change? That's a loss?
Change can also like putting something away and getting something else in return, doesn't mean you're losing anything. In fact, it can mean quite the opposite, that are gaining. Absolutely, so we have these it's like we've gotten this these almost energies around these terms that have gotten completely out of control. The one romanticism, you know, change, change, is good.
You complete me?
Yeah, yeah, you complete me? What a load of shit. My dog completes me.
My dog completes me too.
Please come as close to it completing me as anybody else has.
So what's your situation. Are you married?
No? So I was married, and the relations the marriage was actually really really painful, and how it ended was extremely painful.
So let's talk about that story. Okay, yeah, that's pretty That was hard to read. I can't imagine it. Yeah, okay, I mean it's a good start to a book. Yeah, sure, yeah gets you in.
He gets you in because he hooks you. Yeah.
So when I started seeing him, I thought when we got married, I was thirty eight, and I thought, well, you know, I'm older, I'm wiser, I've been working with people for so many years. I know what I'm doing. But boy did I not know what I was doing. And so when our relationship leading up to marriage, I always say it was about ninety percent good because we were actually very compatible and we got along really well in many different ways. But ten percent was very problematic.
Now people will say, well, no relationship is perfect. Yes, although that ten percent was extremely significant. So that when we got married, then the ten percent became the ninety percent, and the ninety percent then became the ten percent. And so people think. Another thing that people don't understand. They think that, oh, the once we get married, everything will be okay. No, no, no, no, your problems get mag get magnified once you're married and so.
And then once you have children, they magnify again, and they magnify again.
And this is from someone who's never been married or ever have children. And I know this to be true.
And you know, yeah, because I'm sure you have many people in your life who are married with kids.
And I'm psychic, and you're telling me when I look at a couple of what's going on?
Yeah, but no, it's true, it's true. But it's interesting. I've never heard of put this way, the ten and ninety flip.
Yeah.
So that was and it's because of a lot of different things, red flags that I didn't see and didn't understand, Like we didn't have certain conversations that were incredibly important. There were certain things that I weren't that I wasn't saying because I was so afraid to.
Rock the boat.
And about having children.
Part of it was about having children. Part of it was just about certain things that upset me in the relationship, things that you just need to talk about, you know, you need to sit down and have a conversation about.
But I you know, there was a very and I write about in the book, there was a very significant night that should have been a deal breaker for me, or should have at least been a very serious conversation that I sat down and had with him, But for me, it was more just like, let me suppress how horrible that felt, because I don't want to face the possibility of this not being the one and this is that is something that millions of people do.
And what was the incident? Can you tell us? Yeah?
I mean I talk about it in the book, but let me share about it a little bit here because it's important. Like we went to this event in New York City called Sleep No More.
I don't know if I've been there. Yeah, yeah, I went there.
So you know that when you're there, they put they give you masks, and everyone have the same mask, and then they separate you from who from whoever you went there with. And he was on the way there, he was acting weird, he was shut down. I had no idea what was going on. That was something that was very familiar from my father. My father would shut down a lot, and then you would never know what his mood would be.
So I didn't.
Realize because I had had, you know, my prior to him, I'd had some really beautiful relationships where like the trauma from my past was not ignited, but this one was right.
So there's no What do you.
Think about that though?
Like?
Why is it?
Sometimes? I mean, if the whole point of being here is to learn and to.
Grow, Yeah, so when you're in a relationship that isn't bringing something up, what's the point of that?
Or maybe you're there for the other person.
I don't think you should be in I don't think that being in a relationship that is constantly triggering your suffering and your past is a good relationship.
I don't think that should be constant.
I think if that's happening and two people are like, whoa, this is what's happening, and then they can work on it and keel together, that's wonderful And that's definitely a possibility. Why in the past was I in a relationship that wasn't reminiscent of my relationship my trauma with my father, and then later, because context matters. It matters where you are in your life, it matters how old you are, what other stressors are in your life. Context matters.
You know.
It's like, you could be anxiously very anxious in one relationship and not anxious in another, and part of that has to do with who you're with. And it's like, oh, well, why were you attracted to the person who treats you like shit in one stage of your life but not in another? But what was going on in that stage of your life?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, right right, okay, so back to sleep no more?
So back to sleep no more? So he was acting weird. I had no idea. I went to the familiar thing of just sort of like, what's wrong, And then you know he's saying nothing's wrong, and so I'm all anxious as opposed to something. What I would do today is maybe not in that moment, but I would have had a conversation with him like something was definitely off. I
don't like how it feels. We need to talk about it, because my standard is if you can't talk about what's going on inside of you, we're not going to be in a relationship. Maybe you know, I'm also sensitive to timing. It's not going to be all in my timing that we have the conversation. But if you can't have a conversation about something that's bothering you and you're just going to shut down, you don't have a chance with me. Right But back then, all I could think was fear.
So we go to sleep no more and we're separated. But there were many times throughout the course of the night. You know, you recognize even with the mask, you know who your partner is, you know what they're wearing, you know their body. And when I would see him, I would be like, oh, yes, now we're going to reunite, and he would act like he didn't see me. And then I don't know what was going on with him that night, and it just sort of blew over and
I never addressed it again. And that was very very significant because that was mean and it was very rejecting. I mean, it was very weird. But it's not about him. It's about me. It's about the fact that I.
Didn't say anything.
It's about like, what was going on with me that I was too afraid to bring this up. So it's really I really want people to stop blaming the other and to look within and be like, what's my pattern here?
What is it? Get curious about yourself.
So now, so you do a lot of couples counseling.
So when I first embarked in on this journey of helping people in their relationships, I worked with hundreds of couples because when we when he and I went to couple's therapy, was terrible, and I thought there has to be another way.
Well, it was so bad about it.
No one was holding anyone accountable.
You know, when I work with people, and when I consider a good therapist is someone who's holding you accountable and being like, look, this is what's going on, and really helping us understand what's underneath it all. But holding accountable. It's not about like let me hold your hand and let me hold.
Your hand and play. I agree, you know.
It can't be like you have to be compassionate, but you also have to be you have to tell the truth, yes, as a counselor coach therapist.
Otherwise it becomes a form of enabling.
Yeah, and then no one's getting better. Yeah.
I don't understand that approach and I don't like it because yeah.
Yeah, so I thought there had to be another way, and so I really wanted to help couples.
And then I was.
Like, well, you know, I really like working with individuals too, people who are heartbroken because I was devastated and I rebuilt my life, so I like helping people rebuild their life after devastation. I liked working with I was like, Wow, so much of this is who you pick. It's who you choose, and so many people are choosing terrible partners or try or going out into dating pool feeling desperate. Choose me, pick me, pick me, pick me, Let me
help some individuals. So I like helping people sort of like in every area and.
Journey in every area, but do you have rehiphip not on every area, in every stage of where they are in their relationship, Okay, And also helping people who are really like looking for love.
Oh yeah I love that. Yeah I love helping people look for love.
Yeah, well who wouldn't love that? Yeah that's spreading love?
Yeah, absolutely wonderful. Yeah.
Yeah, it's hard to when you're the way you're talking about it just makes me think, you know, everywhere, every person is in a different place on their quote unquote journey, and some people aren't even on a fucking journey, you know what I mean, they're just like whatever. So it's like when people kind of cross paths. You know, I'm not one of those people who thinks everything happens for a reason, but I think many things do.
And sometimes it really has nothing to do with.
You, Like you're not the A character and every and every story you're not you're the A character, and you're yeah, sometimes you're here for other people.
Yeah yeah.
So I just always find it interesting where people cross paths because it's like you also, like if two people come together and there is no friction and there is just like la la la la, la la la.
That sounds suspicious too.
You want to be unearthing, like you want to be looking within and improving and without friction, and there's no reason to do that absolutely.
And also what causes chemistry ignites chemistry between two people, it's like differences and also whending nights chemistry between two people, it's like, oh, you're your own person, and so am I let's like rumble a little bit with this. But to what degree? It should not be chaos? It should not be chaos. If there's chaos, something's wrong.
Mm hmm, Okay, I just want to read a couple more of these. Just less is not the same thing as love. And also, like I think I wrote this in my new book that something about you know, don't confuse missing somebody, you.
Know, with belonging with someone.
Yeah, absolutely, right, Like those two things kind of sound familiar.
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean I think so when we meet someone and we're attracted, we can lose our minds a little bit, you know, And that's oftentimes when we throw our standards out the window and we think, oh, this person has to be the person, and we think, oh, they are the person, And a lot of people what they do is they move really fast, They play house with each other even though they're strangers. And again it's that feeling of I would do anything for this person. This person's amazing.
And what we what a lot of people do is unconsciously they put each other on pedestals. And what happens is once reels starts to happen, So once the honeymoon starts to once the novelty wears off.
When is this usually let's discuss that.
I think it's anywhere between three to six to three to six months to a year, but usually three to six six months once the novelty wears off and there might be like, you know, an argument.
That's it.
I just want everyone to put it on. Put it on the record that Doug just ran into the room when you said three to six to nine months to a year, because we are coming.
Up on a year, and that it's going to be of owning him having him.
Yes, yes, I don't consider him him. I don't consider him to be owned by me.
I guess him to be my partner. I get it on sexual and romantic. I get it on romantic, let's not be sexual about it. But yeah, but yes, okay, because because I heard someone say something like two years, I'm like, no one has to your honeymoon.
Like yeah, yeah, I can't think but a year but a year maybe, but like but you know, changes, so you know, that's when the masks come off and we kind of get real. And what happens is so this ties into the one we meet someone we think they're amazing, and what we're doing on an unconscious level is that we're projecting our ideal onto them. Oh, they they're perfect partner, they're perfect me, they're perfect for me, and then as soon as reel comes up, you know, our flaws come up,
conflict comes up, things that are not so comfortable. Then what a lot of people do, and I've done this too, is like, oh wait, you're not who I thought you were,
Like you're not perfect again. They would never admit to this because it's not so much like conscious, but it's like you're not perfec Anyone who's on the pedestal ultimately becomes the fallen hero, right, It's like you're gonna come off because the realness is gonna come So you know, once the novelty wears off, that's when you know if you really have what it takes to make it with something.
Some people they are so addicted to that lusty high because they don't understand the reality of what it is to love someone. Yeah that really, it really is a choice, and it's a verb, and it's a practice, and it's an intentional practice, and it means you have to have difficult conversations and it means you have to have a lot of tolerance. I don't want you to tolerate bullshit, but you have to know where your limits are. Because
no one is perfect. No one is perfect. We are all very complicated, complex creatures with a lot of nuance. And I think a lot of people, myself included, walk this earth not knowing where their limits are for what is t They're either expecting perfection or they're tolerating a little too much.
Sense.
Before we take a break, I just want to ask you one life question back to sleep No More. Did you ever finally bring that up to him at the end of the relationship or is that something you discovered through therapy to that night that was a red flag.
I didn't discover it through therapy.
I discovered on my own, in my own self reflection, And no, I never brought it up to him, And I think it was just the sort of cathartic writing about it.
Yeah, Okay, we're going to take a break and we'll be right back with Gillian Tareki.
And we're back with Jillian. Okay, So we have some callers, we have some letters. What do we have?
Well, we'll start with our callers today.
It's always exciting. I love taking callers. Yeah, I love it.
So.
Dusty is an interesting situation because he had written in about a recent X about a year ago and followed up with him recently, and he has a question about that X. But he's somebody who's really taking a responsibility for himself and his actions. And you'll hear a little bit about that in the email.
So did we already answer a question from him before?
No?
Oh huh, I had just like seen his previous question. Okay, So he says, Dear Chelsea, to begin, I want to tell you how much fun I've had listening to your podcast. I followed you Chelsea since I first tuned into Chelsea Lately in junior high. I'm newly sober and just celebrated six months of sobriety. I left my previous relationship just over a year ago. It was hot, heavy, fast, and I was still an absolute mess for the entirety of it.
Things ended up going south for us. I've taken accountability for the things I had done while with him, and as he has done the same in return. He and I have a great relationship now as friends. We've been in communication daily and he's a major source of support for me since moving halfway across the country and getting sober and working the program, and now I find myself leaps ahead of where I was in terms of confidence self awareness, honesty with myself and others, and my ability
to put myself out there again. I've started dating again, and this is where things seem to be a little
confusing for me. As friends do we chat about dating. However, he started asking very intimate questions about my sex life and wanting to know what was happening with my dates when look as a friend, I know what it's like to be curious, supportive, and excited for friends when they're going out and having fun, hot, horny times after a long hiatus, but it obviously feels different when it's coming from someone used to wear a ring for So my question is how do I find balance and what to
share and what not to share. I feel turned off by the level of curiosity he seems to be having, and I can also tell when he's trying too hard to appear unbothered.
Help Dusty.
Hi, Dusty, Hi, Dusty Bye. This is our special guest today, Jilly and Tareki. She just wrote a book about love.
How are you.
Hi.
Nice to meet you, so nice to meet too.
Congratulations on your six months sobriety Mark. That's awesome.
Yeah, Dusty, Dusty, I.
Said, congratulations on your six months sobriety, Mark, I thought you were saying, oh, call him okay, Mark, Dusty. Yeah, well this has got that no, keep it in. I think I think that's good.
How are you doing well? Thank you?
Sounds like do you feel like he still has feelings for you?
So that was kind of my thought initially. So I this whole time, I just started dating again, probably I don't know, a month and a half ago now, so, and he and I broke up over a year ago now, so I guess like we hadn't talked about that. Like I said, we talk all the time. So whenever I did start seeing someone or I was going on dates and this and that, the way he responded it just like his voice got really high pitched and like he just seemed like overly excited, and I just felt like
it was disingenuine. So I was like, it made me feel awkward because I felt like he felt awkward.
Yeah, and he was trying to be supportive.
And I just was like, oh, maybe this isn't actually that great.
So does that make sense?
Yeah, I actually have a question for you. So, congratulations on sobriety.
Thanks, thank you?
Are you are you your yes? Yeah, exactly. Are you in a program. Are you in AA or anything like that? Yes, okay, Okay, I have.
A sponsor and I'm working a program.
And what does your sponsors say about dating only five to six months into sobriety.
So the group that I'm in is pretty lucy goosey about it, Okay. I would say it's kind of just based on I think, like situational individual, person by person.
Okay, there is kind of that blanket rule.
Yeah, you probably know this of like don't date within your first year. Yeah, but with my with my group, it's not.
It's not it's more individual, it's more individual.
Yeah.
And are you looking for what kind of partnership are you looking for? Are you looking for long term partnership? Are you looking like? What what do you want?
So, because I am six months sober, everything does feel very new. So right now what I'm looking for is just I think to find myself figure it out, like in dating, like I'm wanting to fill I think more comfortable with it. I obviously would like to find somebody that I could develop a long term relationship with, but I want to enjoy the process.
Of Yeah, So right now, that's.
That's like number one is just enjoying who I meet and seeing what happens.
That's the attitude everyone should have when you day. That's like perfect, it's like a renewal you get you know.
Absolutely yeah, and it feels so new, you know, like doing everything sober, sober dates, you know, blah blah blah, but very different. So it's just it's I'm figuring it out.
Yeah, So what's one thing. I'm sure there's a few things, but if you were to like name one or two things that you really want to do differently as a sober person as it relates to.
Dating, I realized that my.
Like I used to fill up my cup kind of with who I was with, yeah, solely, and kind of lost my own kind of identity in the relationship. And I had so many expectations I would attach myself well, you know, I'd like cling on for dear life to that person, and it was really unhealthy. And so now I think, really it's just about finding myself.
Can you ask the question again? I'm so sorry.
Yeah, no, you're doing great, great question.
It's a very good question.
So it's worth taking the time to like answer it and think about it.
Yeah, And I think you're I think you were really you're onto something. I wanted to know what you wanted to do. Differently as a sober person as it relates to dating.
It's kind of like a slogan. But I want to have a relationship and not take a hostage. I think would be like primary, like I want to have my own identity outside of the relationship, have healthy attachment style, healthy habits, and just like it's just my goal to to enjoy it for I think, like how.
How it is in like reality and in truth?
And instead of like creating a like how do I explain, like I wasn't prepared for follow up questions? No, I instead of kind of creating a narrative of what I think it should be in my head, I want to enjoy it for what it is and it kind of release control of how I used to try to maintain control.
If that makes sense, It all makes sense. I think that's beautiful.
What are you doing in your life currently to bolster up your sense of self so that you're not looking for your for yourself only in another person?
Well, I mean I think everything has changed in my life. Number one would be, you know, I'm hitting meetings, I'm working with my sponsor, and I'm working my program and that is really the most important thing for me right now.
That's unique to me.
I've learned how to be a better friend to those people I have in my life. So I feel like really nice, like re getting to know like a couple of these people who have been so close to me for so long, and like I realized that there were like some blocks between us that are kind of going away or like we're kind of redefining our friendship now. So I have other things, you know, Yoga is huge for me. I started doing yoga every single day. I fell in love with it.
Good for ye too. Yeah.
So just stuff like that is kind of I think what I'm doing for myself.
But as it relates to the AX, which is the original question, right, like what are you supposed to.
Do about his ex? It's the X, right, It's not a new guy, right.
It's the X. Yeah.
So he was very supportive of me this whole past what thirteen fourteen months since we broke up, he's been He was really supportive for me in the beginning right after the breakup, because I was so attached to him that it was like, I don't even think I would have been able to go a day without talking to him. It was intense and I was having panic attacks all
the time. Wasn't sober yet. And with that, I do feel like this sense of anytime I kind of want to create a boundary or anything, or like have like a conversation where it's just really honest, because we had issues with honesty when we were together. It's part of the reason why we're not together. But as a friend, I think he's amazing. But I think whenever I try to have like a boundary set in place, I struggle with that, and I struggle.
With in my head.
It's like I want my friendships to be limitless and like us not have like blocks with each other, like have things we can't say to each other.
I want it to be very open.
But like with him in this situation, it does feel like maybe a temporary boundary or something. But it's like I have guilt whenever I do that. I'm kind of rambling a lot here.
Yeah, I know we're asking you a lot of questions, asking you a lot of questions like an actual it's like almost like we have like one therapy session. Yeah, and I'm into it, So don't worry about it because you have some like you've done so much for yourself and you're so honest and so forthcoming. Very I mean, I'm sitting watching an admiration of you, how much you've done with your life and how self aware you've become. That's really awesome. And I think everyone has trouble. I'm
just going to jump in here. Obviously Julianne interrupted me when you see fit, but everyone has a hard time creating boundaries. I totally have a hard time creating boundaries. It's like I never even thought of it. It's like a boundary, Oh I have to create Oh I forgot, Like I never even knew I had to do that. But when the opportunity arises to create one, that's your opportunity to do it gently and with love and actually
attribute it to your own self work. All this work I'm doing on myself, I'm learning that we actually don't have a healthy boundary around this. So while this is kind of strange to have to say to you, I think for the betterment and the strength of our friendship, like we're just not going to talk about dating for a while, or you know, whatever you want to you know,
whatever time frame you want to build it around. But I think if you guys have remained friends for this period of time after that relationship and went through all that stuff together, he's only going to respect you from creating a bounce. Maybe not right in that moment, but over time.
He will respect that.
Yeah, I would agree with that.
And I think it's an opportunity for you to create a new pattern, like with with not just him. You know, you may have to create a boundary with the next person you date or another person in your life. But it's very good to understand how that's done and to do it effectively, sober and with grace.
Yeah, And it's okay that this is very uncomfortable, Like you're learning something new, you're creating new patterns, and it is going to be uncomfortable and it's going to feel awkward and you're going to have a lot of resistance
to it, and that's part of the process. But it's also, as you know, is so important, right, So, and you can be really forthcoming about it and be like this is really hard for me, but you know this, I just is this is part of what I'm working on, and this is what feels right for me.
Yeah, and as you said, you know, the pitch of his voice went up, and he felt a little awkward, like it might be a little bit of a relief for him to not have have to go there with you and like talk about those things specifically.
So, oh my god, the questions he asked. I was like, why would you ask me that?
Like I was like, that's a lot, you know, yeah, to be curious about anyway.
Okay, well I think you got the message right I did.
I appreciate you guys so much.
I appreciate you too.
Thank you. Does this room look cozy? I still have to figure very cold good.
I have to figure out we need a different plant. This plant blocks the bookcase. So anyway, send us a plant. Okay, thank you?
Yeah, medium at work. That's about it.
So we'll ask the next caller.
All right, well thanks, thanks, otherwise known as Mark. So didn't he seem like he was in great shape?
He did.
Yeah, but you sound you mean a great shape emotionally, yeah, like very self aware, very like he's doing the work.
He is really I respect that one hundred percent.
And he was very honest and he had a lot of again awareness about what his pattern was. So yeah, I'm and he's doing it. He's got the sponsor, he's in the program, so that's great and I'm rooting for him.
It really seemed like he's somebody who's taking a responsibility for himself. Even looking at the email he sent a year ago, was you know, which admittedly he wrote drunk and he was like it was much more like sort of finger point, whereas the eemail is all like I've re taken I've taken responsibility for my stuff. And I just thought he was such a cutie.
Yeah, such a cuty Yeah. Well, our next caller is Carly.
She is thirty two, and this one sort of coincidentally also has a sobriety theme, but really just a coincidence there. I'd love to talk to her about some of her online dating stuff as well. So she says, Dear Chelsea, I'm thirty two, female and on the apps. Unfortunately I can't drink for some low key medical reasons, but I truly still enjoy going out to bars, parties, wineries, et cetera. When a guy on the dating apps asks me out,
I always disclose that I can't drink. Something like that sounds great, just so you know, I don't really drink, but I still like to do drinks and go out and I'm totally cool if you drink three times in the last month. I've said this and the guy says, oh, yeah, that's totally cool. Let's go on out on XT day. Then XT day comes no confirmation of the date, and they are radio silent when I reach out, and they
usually unmatch me the next day. I prefer to disclose this, but many of my friends keep telling me not to.
What do you think?
How should I handle this? I feel like it's a lie biomission to just show up on a date without disclosing I can't drink, but these stupid men out here seem incapable of understanding that I truly don't care if they're drinking. Obviously, I'm not going to be hooking up with a drunk man while sober. But can we not even get out on the first date to see if we're compatible at all?
Carly?
You know what I think? I think? Remove? I think, Hi, Carly, hy, how.
Are you Carly great? Thanks for having me?
Yeah, I think you should just remove drinking altogether from the date. I think you should say, look, I don't really drink and we do something else. I would love to, like maybe go bowling or do this, or maybe meet for coffee. I actually think that it's a problem that so many people go on dates and drink. Is you know what happens when people drink, They look at someone they think, yeah, I'm attracted to them because it's the alcohol talking.
So I think I don't.
I think you absolutely should say, you know, I don't drink, and I kind of prefer to do something else.
What do you think? Because that's actually going to.
Any guy who's like not into that or disappears great, let him because that is exactly not your guy.
It's the one who's gonna be like cool.
You know, I'm not really a big drinker either, and I you know, would love to take you whatever, hiking, walking, coffee, breakfast, bowling, whatever the hell it is, dancing, whatever it is.
And so, yeah, what are your two cents?
I don't know. I kind of disagree. Okay, I feel like.
You're making it like that you're only available, Like it almost sounds like you'll you'll never be open to going out for drinks. And she just said she's totally happy going out for drinks because if someone says, I don't drink, Can we do something else? I would take that to mean, oh, that's what our whole thing is going to be. Like, what if I want to go have a couple drinks
one night, You're not gonna sit with me. I understand what you're saying, but I think for the purposes of meeting people, I'm not saying you should lie and say take out the drinking. But I don't think it's a problem for you to go at like it's nice to demonstrate that you can go somewhere, go out for drinks with somebody and it's not an issue, you know what I mean, Because then they know that, oh, she does a drink, but that's fine, she's cool, she's fun. We can go to a bar, we can hang out, we
can play pool, we can play darts. There's other things that can happen there besides just sitting and drinking, you know. So, I mean, I'm the guy that is breaking up with you because you're sober, Like I'm if I went out with a guy who didn't tell me they didn't drink, I would be annoyed, Yeah, because I want to know that. Yeah, of course you already know that, and it doesn't mean that I wouldn't date somebody who didn't drink.
I mean I don't. I don't think i've Yeah, I.
Have that if they're leading with it, yeah, but with a drinker. You don't want to be with a big drinker.
Yeah, but I don't know.
I think you are reading a lot of people out because they might be like, oh, she's gonna be judgy, or she's gonna be you know what I mean, Like she might be sober. I mean maybe if you want to write, even in adendum, like I'm not in AA, I just don't really drink a lot or not a big drink, not a big drinker. And that's it, like, you know, make it look less in the blow just because some people are fine as long as they know you're cool, and some people are just don't want to be like you.
She was telling them, she was saying I'm cool, she was saying, I don't drink, but I'm totally fine. But then what they do is that they then they don't show up.
Yeah, and that's what they've been doing recently. And I'm just like, tell me that it's not okay and I'm cool or expect it unmatch me great, but don't plan a date and then.
Ghostw What city are you in?
I'm right outside Philadelphia in South Jersey.
Oh okay, I thought you were going to say.
I was like, if you're in LA, it shouldn't be an issue because everyone's fucking sober here anyway.
Yeah, exactly.
I mean, I don't know.
Maybe they're not. Maybe they're not falling through because it's not that I don't know. Maybe it's because they just they want to get hammered with you and have a good time. Either way, they're not your guy. What's important to you in terms of a partner and his relationship with alcohol.
For me personally, I just have like some you know, low key medical issues where I tend to like pass out and have a seizure if I have certain medications or alcohol. Yes, so I've just you know, I'm thirty two now, I've lived my whole life, college, scrap parties, law school, everything, not drinking, being around people who drink. All of my friends drink. It's never really been an issue for me except in this like one sphere of data.
Right, I'm gonna say, I think you're labeling yourself, even though she's saying I'm okay with drinking.
I think it's so.
Do you think she should not say anything? I just don't think you should do it.
I don't think you should put.
Such an emphasis on drinking, just like you shouldn't put such an emphasis on most things, like when you're not before you meet someone, like have them, have the experience of meeting them. Take out the drinking thing, I think, and just and then see if that changes the amount of men that you actually match with, and then see if that changes the quality of men that you match with, because maybe it will have the effect that Jillian is saying, which is you, thank God you're rid of all those people.
Anyway. I don't know.
Maybe there's a couple of people in there that aren't big drinkers, that just are like, oh, I'm on a first date. I want to have a cocktail like that. That's kind of like a very regular thing for people to do, you know what I mean.
And Carly, would you tell us a little bit about You mentioned some really interesting things to me about your experience on the apps, like kind of guys you're getting hooked up with.
Can you tell us a little bit about that?
Yeah, on the apps recently, I've been having this issue where like, even when I do go on a few dates with people, I get a lot of feedback about that I have my shit together too much and that makes them insecure.
After the date or before the date.
After when I do go out and date, it's like, you know, two or three dates with someone and they're like, oh, you know, I'm not in a place in my life right now, and they use it as an excuse and they even I'm like, oh, you own a house, you like, know what you're doing with your life. And I'm still trying to figure my life out at like thirty nine years old, which is fine, everyone's in different areas. But that's just kind of like something I've been getting a lot recently.
That you definitely don't want to diminish the fact that you.
Have your shit together.
Absolutely not.
There's a little shit I could still figure out.
So that's something that you don't want to start hiding from men because you know, absolutely not exactly. I think it's great that you have your shit together at thirty two, and you know, it's amazing people until like thirty five ish, I think to get their shit together. Yeah, thirty five to forty anyway, Yeah, and beyond.
But yeah, I mean.
That would be my advice just to remove that. Don't put such an emphasis on it. Just you know, you're open to whatever you can suggest. Always going to coffee. Also, we're going for a walk. In your book, you talk about what a co regulating experience walking is. Yeah, that's the first time I've read that. I mean, I know it to be true, coregulated, but.
Yeah, is it right?
That's actually an It sounds kind of like a corny thing to do on a date. I mean, I wouldn't go for a walk with someone on a date. I did it once and that's why I'll never do it again. But it is actually a really good activity for two people to do together.
Yeah.
And you know what's something that I'll leave you with is this. Sometimes the people who do have their quote unquote shit together and are not You're they're not hookup material, their wife material like, and I say that meaning like they're not the person who you're just You're not they're not just gonna like have a good time with you and get wasted and go to bed together like you're someone actually to be taken seriously. For many different reasons.
Sometimes those women they do have to wait a little bit longer for the right per especially around your age group. But don't let that discourage you. Never, as Chelsea said, never diminish all that you've accomplished and that you have your shit together, like you have to that you have to be loud and proud about that.
Okay, I'll try.
Okay.
I love that, Jillian. Yeah, yeah, you are somebody they bring home to mom.
Yeah, yeah, you are. And that's a good thing and that's a lovely thing.
Yeah yeah.
And also enjoy the process of all of this, Like I know it may seem frustrating right now, but like you'll never get this time back again.
You know, you're thirty two, you're.
Single, you're on apps, Like, look at that as fun and adventurous instead of the disappointment that comes with it. There's also all these other fun, flirty things. Sometimes you flirt with people that you never even go on a date with. Yeah, and it's fun for like five days or two weeks, and it never comes to fruition. But like who cares, you know what I mean, it doesn't
fucking matter. It's like, enjoy all of this that's happening, because you're never gonna be thirty two again, and you might not be You might meet somebody, get married and have kids and be like, God, I wish I went on some more dates, you know what I mean?
Well, I have been to more countries than days this year, So I guess that's perfect.
That's a good attitude too. I love that.
Yeah, So you're a very interesting girl. You're a very interesting woman, so you need you need an interesting guy. And so anyone who's just like gonna be like, well, she won't get wasted with me.
That's not your guy.
No, but do you have any plants that you can say, because we need to put a plant in this area that isn't this tall that just like kind of comes up here and it's a little bit. I would keep asking our callers, but our last caller he was not helpful.
I kill all plants. I just got flowers and at the farmers market and they're dead already, so I don't I can keep dogs alive, but not plants.
She does have an enormous black.
Dog, just like you.
I mean, I don't need her to keep my dog alive. I mean, you keep your dog alive, and I'll try to keep mine alive. But I guess we can call this episode no plants for us.
Okay, Well does that help you at all? Are you?
Thank you?
Okay, thanks, thanks for calling in.
Bye bye, Jillan.
Do you have advice for people who are on the apps and are just like suffering.
Advice?
Well, I think there's a few things. One is that really shouldn't don't depend it's designed to make you very dependent. Don't depend on them entirely. Like actually, go out, meet people, expand your circle, have fun, live your life to the fullest. Don't get so obsessive about it. Expand your zip code. That's important because also if you're in a big city usually that can be more difficult. So go like to the periphery. Maybe you have to drive thirty minutes, maybe you have to dry.
In an hour.
I think it's worth it.
And don't be having a million different texting exchanging exchanges with lots of different people, Like focus on one person at a time, honestly, and meet the person, whether it's like through a FaceTime or zoom or in person quickly. Because what I've been seeing a lot lately is that, oh my god, I've been texting with this person. It's been like two months but we haven't met, and it
creates this really weird false sense of intimacy. So just like if you are in it because you want a relationship, then you have to have discipline not to always be on it. You have to have some clear standards and also have some pictures of you where you're like smiling and it's not just like a poe with all this makeup, especially for women. And yeah, those are just my quick tips.
That's great.
Well, maybe let's take a break and we'll come back with a quick question, A quicker question.
Okay, we'll take a break and we'll be right back, and we're back with Gilly and Tareki.
And actually, before we're back, we can lose our headphones.
I like my headphones. We feel it make me feel secure. I know, what do you got?
I've got either my boyfriend has a lot of female friends or.
My ex lover died.
Oh what do you think?
I think the ex lover died?
Ex lover died?
Okay?
What is okay?
Sure?
I'm open?
Okay, So, Tricia writes, Dear Chelsea, I just found out that my former lover, with whom I was in an extramarital relationship, died, a year ago. We were lovers undercover for ten years, and I loved him. I was very close to his wife. I know it's gross. She found out about us because of a drunk email I sent years ago when the guilt got the best of me, admitting to our relationship.
I'mother great advertisement for alcohol.
Skewing that way today.
I'm since widowed and have only had two exchanges via LinkedIn with him since we broke up. But I started to write her how sorry I was for her loss and of course the damage I caused. But now I'm rethinking writing her. Should I reach out? What say you, thanks, Trisha?
No, no, do not no reason to leave her alone. Let her grieve. Yeah, and you can do your grieving by yourself.
And she lost her her husband, so she's a grieving both. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, never mind her.
Yeah, that's a big no.
Okay, I'm glad we're in agreement.
Yeah, we do have probably time for that last other quick we want to do?
Sure?
Okay, great, So, Susannah says dear Chelsea. I'm in a new relationship where I feel secure for the most part. My one hang up with him is that he has a lot of female friends that he regularly talks to and hangs out with, both single and married alike. Obviously, I know I can't tell him who to be friends with, but I just cannot relate at all. Because I don't have any single straight men that I'm regularly talking to and hanging out with. It feels like it could quickly become.
A slippery slope.
I have not brought this up to him yet because I think it could easily be misconstrued as me being the jealous type or acting like the crazy girlfriend. I trust him, and I don't want to unnecessarily rock the boat of an otherwise great thing. He's been single for a long time, over a decade, so perhaps he doesn't even realize that it might make me uncomfortable since he's
not used to having to consider someone else's feelings. My question is is it worth bringing up since it makes me feel uneasy or will it just naturally fade out over time now that he isn't single? Is it totally fine to be in a relationship and have a bunch of single friends of the opposite sex? Basically, is this a valid concern or am I just insecure? Susannah?
How long have they been together? I forgot that.
Let's see, it's just this new relationship. I don't think we have a timeline.
Would you like to answer this first? Would you like to go first?
I think that it's important when you're trying to foster a new relationship, certain other relationships might have to change. I also think that if you're gonna have a lot of friendships, female friendships, and you're a straight man, you're in a relationship with a woman, that she should be introduced to these friends and included somewhat.
You know.
It really just and also depends does he have a history with any of them? Has he hooked up with any of them? Did he date any of them? Those need boundaries around them, especially when you're trying to foster like safety and trust in a new relationship.
What do you think, Well, I think she hasn't even broached the topic with him, and right now it doesn't sound like it doesn't sound nefarious. It sounds like he has a lot of friends that are girls, and I think people should be confident.
She said in the letter.
I don't have I can't relate because I don't have a lot of friends that are guys. Yeah, that's a you problem, not a heat problem, Well I have. I'm dating somebody who has lots of girlfriends.
Uh huh.
I have no issue with that whatsoever. I have lots of guy friends. I mean most of them are gay, but I have a lot of straight male friends. And it's just not an issue because I'm confident and he's confident. It's not a thing I don't think. I think if their issues arise because of it, in addition to your insecurity that is so far rooted in nothing, just her own insecurity, if there were issues that were derived from him in some one of these women, then yes it
becomes an issue. But right now it sounds like her issue, not a him issue.
Yeah.
I mean, look, the thing is I agree. I think there's nuance. It's like, does he have these other friendships and is he not is he not communicating with her like when there.
Should absolutely be free to meet all of them. Yeah, be incorporated.
I think there be integration. I think that's really important.
Definitely.
Yeah.
So I think as long as there's integration and as long as it's not like when there's where it gets messy. It's like if they have a problem and he's going to one of his female friends and he's not talking to her, but that doesn't seem to be what's happening.
But I do want to bring that up.
Is something that does potentially happen in couples where it absolutely can be a problem. Also, it can be a problem with one of those friends as someone who like a year ago, you were in a relationship with and there isn't any like clear boundaries. But at the same time, if it's just I do believe that there can be friendship and that it absolutely could be just her insecurities to your point, because I.
Just don't think like you when you said I think the first thing you said was like, you know, when you're in a relationship, your other relationships have to change. I actually I don't think that's true unless you have some unhealthy relationships, you know what I mean.
Yes, it might mean like so like life.
I mean also including the girl in your relationships, Yeah, your girlfriend integration's really import I think where there needs to be changed is like if you have if he has a friendship with one of the women who's single, and you know.
She's the first person he texts in the morning and they talk about everything, and they you know, they they do their Saturday nights together when you have a relationship that some of that relationship is going to have to change, but other than that, no, yeah, yeah.
Okay, all right, well, thanks for writing in Susannah, and thank you.
To have a plant.
I will email her now, Okay.
Okay, I like this. Okay, well everybody can order.
It begins with you, the nine hard truth about love that will change your life.
Yes, thank you so much.
Thank you for having me. It was so much fun.
Yeah, good times.
Okay, Well we'll see everybody or here everybody, or listen to everybody or talk to everybody next week.
Goodbye.
If you'd like advice from Chelsea Shoots an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Katherine law and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com