Hi Catherine, Hi Elsey. I'm in New York City and I'm swety. I'm a sweaty Betty. I went to the wrong studio this morning.
Not your fault.
I've been all over town, up and downtown. It's only two o'clock in the afternoon and I've already changed my underwear twice.
Great getting a little puma down there.
It's a little moist over here in New York. Yeah, So I'm only here for three more days. I'm on my transition to my work. First I come to New York, then I go farther east, and then I go farther east.
That's what we did when we went to New yorka with you.
We like stopped in New York and saw some Broadway shows with a friend, and then we, you know, pieced out to Spain for a week, which was I know.
I'm not seeing any Broadway shows this week, but I've been invited to a couple. But I'm just trying to pop into my favorite restaurants since i'll be out of town and see all my friends that i haven't seen. I like to make my presence known when I am in town because I'm gone so much. I'll be out of town for eight weeks now, and Doug is going to sleep away camp for a month where he's going to learn how to come when I call him.
And not beyond everything hopefully.
Yeah, he's yeah, my baby, my baby, I love my baby.
Well, I know you'll miss him, but we are very excited to see you move off to my Orca and have some fun for a while.
Yeah, you can tune into my Instagram to watch me with my nieces and nephews while I'm corrupting them perfection. I'm reading a book right now called Hamnet.
I've heard that's good. It's on my little to read list.
Yeah, I'm halfway through. It's nice. I like things that are set like centuries ago, so yeah, I have to you know, m.
H, I'm reading something right now that's set a couple centuries ago, and like it's a little bit of like an unlikable main character, like like that kind of a witch and a bitch like yeah.
I like that. Though I know it's not often you have an unlikable main character, but I yeah, sometimes prefer that.
Yeah, it's called Fine Shade with a y Chelsea.
We have a very fun guest day.
Who oh my god, I'm excited. He's so ridiculous.
He's so funny, and tonight is the season finale of.
His show, season finale of Hacks. Everybody, he created Hacks, which is a great show with Jean Smart and Hannah einbeinder On Max and our friend and guest today is the person responsible for it? Well, he and his wife are responsible for it and bestie and bestie. Yeah, oh that's right, him and his wife and their best friend. They're a threatfle Please welcome Paul W Downs. Oh my god, you're so ridiculous. Paul W have you ever been on
a zoom before? We have what aren't you? Aren't you a showrunner?
I am, but we don't usually have echo issues.
Just to fill our listeners in, Paul W went from his closet or some sort of bunker and it was all it was all wood, so there was an echo. And then we told him he had maybe if we could get into bed or something. He didn't want to do that. We offered you to get into bed, and instead you went around the corner into some is this a birthing room that you're in? Now?
This is a bedroom. This is the bedroom. There is a bed, but here's the thing. It's a laptop, so I have to hold the laptop.
I'm like, oh no, no, no, no, I just want me to be as comfortable as possible, because great, you're stressing me out.
Oh no, don't get stressed.
Paul congratulations on season three of the Very Funny, very Successful Hacks on HBO. Max. Well we call it Max now, right, Yeah, I suppose so legally we must, Yeah, yes, we must. How has this experience been because Okay, to fill our listeners in, Paul writes with his wife Lucia. Lucia and you guys came up with this, right, we did.
We came up with it with our very best friend, Jen Statsky, who's our our third showrunner.
Okay, right, I have a very good friend from high school named Jen Satsky.
No way, yeah, So, and did you go to high school in New Jersey?
I did Livingston High School. So tell Jen.
I'm from New Jersey. My parents are from Randolph and Dover.
Yeah.
First, all I should say I should have started with huge fans. But also I've always thought you could be in my family. You just I just get the vibe you'd fit right in.
Yeah, I'm very I'm a very Jersey girl at heart. That's really where the edge of the edges come. Yeah, so are you right?
I'm a Jersey girl too. Yeah.
Would you compare yourself to Snookie at all?
No, I'm not a snooky.
I'm more of Martha Stewart. I gotta say, you pick a Jersey girl that I feel is yeah, I.
Do too, because she's got the right amount of bitch. Well she's got an extra amount of bitch, which I respect.
I do too.
Yeah.
I got heavy on the bitch and light on the duck face.
She's light on the pleasant trees. Yeah, she doesn't care. She doesn't have time. Every time I see her, she's like, who are you with, Chelsea? Who brought who's your plus one? That's all she cares about. And I'm like, yeah, I like I like that. She cuts to the chase, like I don't want to say it's so hot today either to anyone, you know. Yeah, it's embarrassing. Okay, So tell us because I know that you said you said you were quoted as saying that women are funnier than men.
Well, yeah, I do.
That's a good thing for men to start saying, you know, just start practicing that agreed, and is that why you wanted to do a sh show senator on a female comedian.
Yes, we were talking about how my first, the first live stand up show, like real stand up show I ever saw was Paula Pundstone in Morriston, New Jersey, and there were just like so many stand ups that we were talking about that never got the same du that a ton of their male counterparts did. And we were just like, it's interesting, especially, you know, because I met my wife and Jen in New York at the UCB and we were like, you know, part of that alt comedy scene, which also.
Are you I'm sorry, are you guys a throutble?
We're not atle sexually? We do not. The three of us don't have sex.
Okay, just checking, I'm just clarifying, But that's good to know. So is Jen Does she have a partner slash lover?
She does? She has a husband actually.
Okay, because that's very relevant to this conversation.
She does have a husband.
He would probably be fine if we, you know, became sexual, but we're.
Not, okay, which we're not. Don't count your chickens before they hatch. You never know what's down on the Pike.
That's exactly right, especially right way.
But I like the way I used it.
I did too, I did too, So not a throtfle but yeah, we we just were like in this all comedy scene also where there was a little bit of
like what's cool comedy, what's not cool comedy? You know, and we were interested in exploring what it was like for like a younger comedian who maybe thought someone like Debora Vance was a hack not a cool comedy person, what it would be like for her to understand like all of the all of the indignities that person suffered to like pave the way for other comedians like her.
So when we thought of it, we wrote an email to each other that was just like the log line of the show, and we could not stop thinking about it anytime we hung it out, we talked about it.
I mean, it is such a great idea for a show to look at something that way. I would have thought in the opposite direction, like to prove this tough, tough bad guy was like really did have a heart. But that's also part of the story too with gens Smarts character, right.
Yeah, a very person.
Yeah, it's like a like a love affair between Hannah and Jean Smart.
It is a love affair, and we actually talk about it that way. We talk about the thaw all the time.
Ah goe, Yeah, yeah.
So you did. You never did stand up when you were at UCB.
I did do stand up. I did. I did mostly sketch an improv, but I did do stand up.
And actually it was because I did stand up and I found it a lonely and b like what I was doing was like a lot of like character.
I would often be.
Like, hey, I have some tech, and people at clubs would be like what. And now I feel like there's a lot of tech in stand up, Like you go to a show and it's like power points and tons of stuff.
But I don't know it just it didn't feel like the right place.
I don't know what you're fucking talking about. I have never seen a PowerPoint presentation at a stand up show. I mean, I understand differentiation between alternative and stand up because Hanna is alternative. I would describe Hanna as comedy as alternative, which I just did in an article at the Wall Street Journal or something like that for her, because because she is alternative, like she has tech.
Yes, she does have tech. That's right, she does. That's a great Yes, she did a perfect example of it.
Paul W. Do you think Hannah's character is written after you is like loosely based on you.
No, She's the closest to Jen and the reason.
I mean, there is parts of myself and Lucia and Jen in the character, and also parts of us at Deborah as well.
Again, I'm a Martha.
Stewart, and I feel like the biggest similarity is that Jen Early, when Twitter was like just popping off, she became very successful on Twitter. I do know, can you be successful? A lot of people followed her, and she got hired essentially. I mean, she had a great packet, I'm sure, but she was hired to write for Jimmy Fallon, and I think part of her discovery was because she was so well liked her comedy. Her jokes were so good on Twitter, So that part of the origin story of the character.
Is borrowed from Jen's life. But there's a little bit of all of us in that.
Yeah. I mean, it's nice to have a team of three when you're doing anything creative because that gives you two heads to bounce ideas off of, so you can really like check the box of you know, because sometimes when you're working with yourself, you always have to bounce it off of someone else before you can put it live or write it down. Because I do. Actually that's not true. I don't, but I but I do. Sometimes
I do. If I'm like on the fence about something I know, bounce it off a couple of people to get the reaction. All I usually need is one confirmation. I'm like, I was right, that's funny, you know. Yeah, you say it out loud to see if there's a reaction, and if there's not, you walk away, you know, with your head between your legs.
Right or like me, because I've continued to do stand up to a certain degree, not enough to be maybe considered one. But I will keep doing a bit that doesn't work. If I feel like it works for you, truly yours, I just keep doing it.
I'm like, I think that's funny. If I do something twice and two times it doesn't work, I don't do it again.
That's probably the way to do it.
No, I don't think there are any rules to anything. There really aren't the goal I think for every creative And you tell me if you disagree in any way is to be confident in their with they're creating. To have confidence in your creative ability. And when you're confident in what you're creating like that, you can smell that, and when you're not, you can smell it. So if you're on stage doing something that doesn't work and you're confident about it, it will still work.
Right. Yeah, I think that's true.
I don't lose an audience because I think it's funny. It does tickle me, and I do think that's something that.
Please use that expression on this podcast, that it tickles you. No, it's like that's a personal request.
Oh good to know. You don't like to be tickled?
No, I don't. I don't like that. I don't like the word tickle. I find it very molesty. You know, get a tickle. It's like, no, thank you, I'm not coming to get a tickle. Or tickle your fancy is another expression that I could do without, but I use it all the time in spite of it because it's so stupid. This might tickle your fancy, but it's evocative. It's very evocative.
But no, I think you're right.
You have to be confident and you have to enjoy it yourself. That's one of the things that having three of us it is good because we're so confident because if we can make one of the other three laugh, My favorite audience are the two of them, and so we're constantly trying to make each other laugh. But it's also great because we have a tiebreaker, So that's also there's a really good part of the three in creative collaboration because of that too.
So you guys want a bunch of Emmys. You went on your honeymoon, Is this correct, and then you flew back straight to the Emmys.
Yeah, well, we we weirdly because because of when the Emmys were happening, we did our honeymoon before our wedding, so we got married.
I mean, the truth, the true story is this.
We don't know if I could get it up to do that, like do it in reverse, I might oh, or maybe I would do the honeymoon and then leave before the marriage.
It was great to do in reverse because I'm like, no, well, we we actually found out like eleven days before our honeymoon that she was two months pregnant, which we did not plan.
The baby, and the baby was yours and.
The baby was mine as far as I know.
Okay, Well, obviously that's something to look into, m hm.
So we went on our honeymoon, we got married, and then we came back and like four days later were the Emmys.
So it was a really crazy month.
And then you won Emmys. How many Emmys did you win that night?
I only won one? Did she had to do that night? Gene won one?
I mean there were there were there were a few emis for the show, but I personally took home one.
Let's talk about Jeane Smart. Tell me about your experience with because Jean Smart lost her husband at the beginning of this series. I remember Handa was telling me that and then she had this huge resurgence at the same time, which I find those things kind of coincide in people's lives all the time, right, there could be a big loss and then there could be like a major shift in a different area. So tell us about choosing Jean Smart for the role, Like, how did you decide?
Well, we wrote the part without anybody in mind, and we had written the script and we made a list of people that we thought would be good for it, and she was honestly at the top of the list because we wanted someone who could do like that her heartfelt moments in the show, more dramatic parts, but also we needed her to be a believable stand up and
deliver a joke. And there's not a ton of women that are that age that we thought would be perfect for it, and so we sent it to her and she met with us and said, you know, I always wanted to be a stand up. When I was twelve, everyone was mermaid or a princess, and I dressed as philis Diller and none of the other kids got it. But she's like, I've always wanted to do that. So it's weirdly kismet. And then a lot of weird kismet stuff kept happening.
Like what else tell us? I like, will your weird kismet chit?
You know?
When Jean's husband passed, we sent her flowers and they were her wedding flowers, and she's like, it's so weird. How would you have known that anemonees were my wedding flower And we had sent heed that and were just
like a weird coincs. But there kept being these things that She's like, when we would write the script, she'd be like, do you know I was obsessed with Christmas and be like, no, we don't really know you that well, we're just starting the season, you know, we But there was a lot of things that were written into the show that she was like, this is as if you live in my house or you know, there's just a bunch of stuff that felt weird, you know, felt weirdly like it was it was a destined thing.
She was meant for it.
But yeah, your character is so fucking funny. You and Meghan. Oh my god, Megan is so ridiculous. I mean, does she ever say anything serious? I'm like, every time I see her, I'm like, are you in character? Or are you I'm like, is this your a real person?
He's always on, She's always on. But I have gotten some serious moments from her. And actually you'll see the season she plays some serious moments in the show.
Oh, I don't know if I'm ready for that.
I gotta tell you what she's making She's making me cry in the scene season three, it's the finale, it's season three.
She was so good. I was moved and during it it was crazy. She's great.
Yeah, that's okay, that's enough about that. Now, how do you know when you are writing something and you're starring in it. I always am curious about directing and starring in your own stuff. How do you know when it's actually serving the purpose, like serving the script versus just serving your own role and and expansion of it. Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
I think because being a writer on the show, like writing the show, I think I care so much more about the story than my part in the show that oftentimes I'm like, we can lose, we can lose that scene of Jimmy. I honestly often am like the one who's I just cut that, And luckily I have these other people who are like, no, keep it in. That was a funny scene. We got to keep it in. But when I'm when I'm directing, I mostly direct episodes that Jimmy isn't really in because I find that hard too.
I'm like, I how you do a whole movie where you're the leader of the movie and directing the movie, and like, what do you watch playback every five minutes? And it seems or you're in a scene you're like, can we just what I need you to do?
You know, in your director but.
You're writing, directing, and starring in this that's a lot. I didn't realize you were also directing.
Yeah, I direct only a handful of the episodes.
All right, we get it, we get it. You're a director, you don't have to get defense.
And a showrunner.
Well, no, I'm saying, I don't direct that many. I don't. I don't even. I dabble, I dabble.
We have fun, and how does that work? Let me tell I want to know about like being with your spouse, working together, living together, how how does that vibe work? You have a kid now, so we do, and obviously you have to have help because if you're both working, we do we do. Whenever I think of a couple working together, I envisioned doctor Phil with his wife and the audience and think, what don't you have anything to do? You know? Like why is she sitting there listening to
her fucking husband? Like, get, that's an hour she could get away from him, and she's choosing to go and listen to him. Rant But I think, I guess I'm
going to answer my own question here. But then I want you to elaborate, Paul W. Because working together with a spouse in a creative space must be very stimulating, right, Like more stimulate, like being able to carry your work home with you when it is creative isn't as onerous as it is to carry your work home with you if you're a CPA or something exactly.
We are in a way.
We're always working, but we're never working because even when we're together and we're at a restaurant and we see a waitress who's like doing something fun, We're like, this is this is a scene?
You know what I mean?
We're constantly collecting material, but also we're never really bored because we always have something. And the thing is, because we also work on comedy together. It's about trying to make the other person laugh. So again, it's not like being a CPA or even doing something dramatic. I'm like, you know, we're not bringing home some true crime murder story, you know, and thinking about the directing of that.
We're we're thinking about a better.
Joke or directing the Ashley Madison documentary. Is that what you were thinking.
Of saying, Yeah, we're not doing that.
We're such a beautiful documentary, and what about like because it's very heartwarming the show, and so I'm always wondering, like the line, because I like I would always err on the side of hard comedy, and this is this is I wouldn't say hard comedy, right, I wouldn't say that. I would say that it's comedy. But there's a lot of heart, I guess from Gene. Sometimes it can be
hard comedy. How do you tell the line, like, what's the most important for you and your storytelling vision and what's the most important for the show?
Funny first? I mean it is.
It is in our minds a comedy and so we're always always making sure that it's funny first.
But whether that just be the scene or the dialogue.
And we do have this kind of cheat code because Gene plays a stand up so we get to like write not only stand up jokes for it, but also like, you know, she's a person that makes jokes constantly.
She's constantly joking. She's constantly ribbing Ava and Ava's throwing it back.
Like we get to write jokes, which I think when you see a comedy where people, you know whatever work in a hospital and then they're slinging jokes, you're like, well, if feels written, because right, people are not professional Canadians who are really fun.
I'm not saying that.
You've never met a funny phlebotomist.
You know, I haven't. I don't think i've met.
It only took me two tries to get phlebotomists out of my mouth.
That was good, that was and that's a funny word.
I'm assuming that you've had therapy in your life, right, You've been to therapy, you have. It's impossible to live in la and be in this industry and not go to therapy. It's like the gateway drug to therapy is being in Hollywood. You have to go to therapy at some point if you've lived there. Okay, Well, we're going to take a break and then we're gonna come back and we're going to answer some callers questions. Okay, Paul w Okay, we'll be right back this week.
We'd love to get questions from anyone with parenting questions or step parenting questions. We'd also like to hear from any trans or non binary folks who would like invice from Chelsea, whether that be about friendships, dating, work issues, or anything else. Right into Dear Chelsea Podcast at gmail dot.
Com, and we're back with Paul W. Downs Hell and how there's no relation to the other the zillions of Paul downs out there, right, because I was assuming that W had to be put in there.
Yeah, well I do have I mean, I have a relationship to my dad, but if I didn't have a W, he might collect a residual, which is not good.
You know, it's good at me.
Are you in any way related to George W. Bush?
No, No, it's not the way at least you know keyword for me.
But you know I was just asking, just you know, I ask every guest.
Yes, our first question comes from l She says, to your Chelsea, I'm writing to ask you about how to approach a prenup. My fiance is a self made millionaire and has two kids. I've always known that there will be a prenup eventually, but I feel like the expectations are always changing. None of this is very romantic, and I hate going through this process. I don't want the money he made before we were together, but having said that, I want to stand.
Up for my lot more money.
I have no kids, I'm almost a decade younger, and I've had a successful career. But it feels like since we're starting a partner ship, I should have a somewhat equal share in what happens going forward. How do you recommend handling money matters like this in a couple?
L Oh, god, prenups. Sorry, yeah, that is I don't know the legalities around a prenup because I'm smart enough to never have been married. Paul, w what about you? You're married?
I am married. I don't have a prenup.
Okay, well you need to get one, even though you guys share the same job.
We gotta do. I know, that's the thing.
I'm like, that's gonna be a tricky No, you can get a post up. Actually, that is a thing. People do do that or they re they they renegotiate their prenup once they're down the road, like five or ten years, Like who's counting. Obviously they are because they're like, all right now it's time for this to you know, mature. But I would say, first of all, you need an attorney that is going to have your best interests in mind. You can't rely on your fiance's attorney to have your
best interests. That is not a thing. They don't have your best interests, they have his best interests. So you have to just find a lawyer, and find a female lawyer. I would say to help negotiate your terms, and you're absolutely right. If you're gonna move in and be a partnership, then it should be more of a partnership. But yeah, you're no way entitled to anything that he made before that or any of the money that has set aside for his children.
I think that's right.
I think it's like, okay, we just make terms that you guys are a partnership from that point forward.
I think that's right.
I was once engaged very quietly too with someone, and as soon as I heard about the prenup, I was like, we're not doing this. It was my from my business managers. Once I heard about what would be entailed, what it would entail, I was like, never mind, I'm not even going to have the problem to ever have to deal with.
I will say, our business manager did recommend a prenup and we did not do it.
Yeah, there are those people. You must have thought you were really in love at that time, Paul w.
Well, we had been together for like fifteen years.
That's a long time. Fifteen years. So now you've been together twenty years, No, eighteen years, no, like seventeen seventeen. Okay, my math is sometimes a little bit off.
Mine is off too. I don't.
I'm like, this is kind of an approximation, you know, yeah, it was great anyway.
Well, lengths of time, durations of time is always in an approximation. People are like, when did your mother die? I'm like, I don't know. It could have been a year ago, it could have been ten years ago. I have no sense of time.
Right right, right, especially, I have very bad memory too.
Oh, you have a really bad memory. A lot of guys have bad memories. It's impressive when you meet a guy with good memory. I sometimes have a good one, sometimes a bad one. It depends how much product spoke that day.
But yeah, yeah, I think that's really good advice for Elle, Like get your own attorney because it's not a romantic thing and it needs to just like not be your manic.
And you shouldn't even discuss it with your husband to just don't even discuss it. Let that lawyers deal with it. People are there to do those jobs, so you don't have to do them. Do not get involved. It will get much more unromantic if you do exactly.
Yeah, keep the boundary, Yeah, and talk about money.
Is always an ugly conversation. It's an uncomfortable conversation. If you need it, it's a desperate conversation. If you have it, you know, it's just always like sticky.
Yeah, So there you go. L Our first color today is Bree. She is thirty seven and she's a therapist, your Chelsea Pie. I'm a lesbian in my mid thirties who's worked for the last ten years as both a child behavioral therapist and a family therapist. It can be a very difficult and very rewarding job, and I love it. At home, I have a wife who I've been with since our early twenties. We have a beautiful four year old daughter and are on the verge of trying for
another child. We have a wonderful marriage, she's my best friend, my writer die and ninety percent of the time things are great. Parenting is where it gets tricky. She's the one who carried our daughter and has always been a mama bear by nature, while I'm also a mom. I often take the quote dad roles when parenting. Our daughter has a special bond with my wife, which is great, but sometimes it leaves me feeling a little left out. And as much as I love my job, it feels
like it's working against me sometimes at home. While my wife and I often parent cohesively, will occasionally disagree with some parenting decisions. Unfortunately, whenever I disagree with her opinion, she automatically says that I'm being too clinical. I try not to use professional language for this reason, and I do think I do a pretty good job. Needless to say, anytime we have a parenting disagreement, her opinion always wins,
and she disqualifies mine due to my profession. My wife struggles with a lot of insecurity, and I can see some of the same traits developing in our daughter. I've tried to explain that there are things we can do as parents to build our daughter's self confidence, but my words fall on deaf ears and she does get defensive. I've suggested seeing a family therapist ourselves, but she revealed to me that she doesn't believe in therapy, which is
a whole other dilemma. No, is it better for me to back down and go along with her instincts as a mom, sometimes against my better judgment and training. Am I really letting my career blur my natural parenting?
Bree oh Hi Brie Hi Hi This is our special guest today, Paul W. Downs. Hi, Hi, Hi. That's so it's not funny, but it's very funny that your that's like being a ghostbuster and having your spouse not believe in ghosts. That's fucked up.
Yeah, it's been challenging.
People cannot not be open to therapy, Like that's just so stupid to say you need a parenting counselor somebody who can talk to both of you because it's not cool that she's disagreeing with you. You guys are supposed to be on the same team.
Yeah, And I you know, I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that when I when our daughter was first born, you know, I'm not great with newborns. That was did not come nationally to me. I was awkward, I fumbled around a lot, and I think she sort of panicked and pulled back. And you know, my expertise is really from five and above, and so I think she was like, you know what we're done. I'm going to make the decisions and you can be over here.
Okay, Well that's that you can't be relegated to like a second in command. A I wouldn't worry about that. It's people bond with children at different ages, Like, don't worry about not bonding to the same level when she was an infant. Is your daughter, Yeah, daughter, and don't worry about that. You're gonna have your own bonding with her at whatever age it's going to happen. That always shakes itself out. But your wife seems to be the bigger issue you, which is you have to get her
to understand that she doesn't get to decide. She's not the only parent in this unit. This family unit has two parents, and she's dominating.
Yeah, and she's never dominated in anything before. I've always been that kind of person too. She has been like, oh, I'm going I'm good with whatever. I make all the decisions for a lot of things, which can be frustrating because I love a back and forth. And so now she's like, you know what, I've never done anything and made any decisions. Now I'm going to stand up for
myself and make all these decisions. And you know, it's hard to argue with that, but I'd like to be a role in my daughter's life.
And you have every right to be a role in your daughter's life. So like, yeah, that's the most important thing. It's not about who's right or who's wrong. It's about both being open to listening to each other's opinions.
You do family therapy, right.
Yeah, I'm a family therapist and a child behavioral therapist.
Yeah. Okay, So what would you say.
I'm like, you know, I'm like, this is so hard because you're you're in it. But this is past, this is hard.
I mean, the immediate thought that would come to mind for me is there's clearly some trust issues on her end, in terms she did have a very traumatic childhood. There is a lot of trust background issues there. She doesn't believe in therapy because she doesn't trust the process. She doesn't trust that someone a stranger could help her with what she experienced, and she doesn't trust other people to
help make big decisions like myself for our daughter. And at first, before we had a child, it was easier because you know, it was just the two of us, and now there's a whole human life here that is impacting our ability to trust each other basically, So that would be my first thought is there's some trust building to have to occur here, but I don't know how to do.
It well, especially with what you just said earlier, which is that you made all the decisions until this and you're a child psychologist or behavioral list and so she's looking at you like, oh no, no, no, this is another thing you're going to dominate. And now she's stepping in and going, no, I'm going to take this role. So yes, with that information, with everything you said, that sounds pretty kind of textbook. So you should be able to handle this without us.
How old is How old is she your daughter? Not your wife?
She's four and a half now and a half.
Okay, yeah, you're about to get to your expertise.
Yes, and you know I'd love another child, but I don't want to go through all this over again.
Okay, well you have to get into therapy together. She can't that. That attitude isn't going to be good for your marriage or your relationship or your family dynamic. So you've got to really work on that and work on that. Do you see someone?
Ah?
Yes, I do.
Well talk to your person about that. I mean, I know you're trying to talk to us about it, but you should also talk to your person and see what they say, Like, what is an organic way for you to bring her in where she doesn't feel threatened and she doesn't feel it's about her, and you can organically bring the conversation in around whatever the pretense of her coming to therapy, which is you want to make sure that you're staying connected. Maybe you don't feel so connected to her.
Yeah, that's true, Oka.
And I don't think you go in saying like staking your claim of what you think you're missing. I think you go in like, I want us to be more unified as parents, and I want to be closer to you and acknowledge the closeness she has with your daughter without sounding like it's a threat, you know what I mean, Like, it's so great the way that you've stepped in. It makes my life. It's so nice to know she's in
such safe hands. You know that obviously it's her mother, but still, like people need to hear those things, you know, and that's usually where the insecurity lies. It's like this deep rooted fear that you're not doing a good enough job at whatever it is you're doing.
Right, I think you've hit.
The nail on the head there with her. I think that you're absolutely right. She would respond much better to a positive approach there instead of in the past we would just combat. I would say why am I not allowed you in on this? And she would get defensive. So I think that's absolutely right.
Yeah.
Yeah, with people who get to fend if, it's just like you have to like pour love over them over and over and over again until they just melt and give up.
Yeah.
It's almost like you want to say, can you come to my session because I want you to help me with this thing. Yeah, exactly, I'm feeling sad about this thing, and maybe you can shed some light on the situation with my therapist. Like, you know, if you make it more about what you need and not what they need to change, that might be helpful. And I think that's right. It's just about like being like, you're so great at all these things. Sometimes I don't feel what you know.
I do feel like sometimes people do the counterbalance, they do the end of the yang, and it's like it might be the case that she's like, no, you're great, you're a great parent. You also studied this, he went to school for it, and you know me, I do believe in it.
Absolutely, But you could still feel inadequate within a relationship, and that's a good descriptor to use for the way you feel to her, because that makes it, you know, it's not aggressive.
Yeah, And I think there was also that second layer for me if I was I'm not a blood parent, and so I was already feeling insignificant that I didn't have the same role in my daughter's life with that whole second parent but not blood parent situation. So that really haunted me for a while as well. I'm working on that.
When you know, you said that you're thinking about another child, are you? Is she going to carry again and use her own eggs and everything?
Yeah?
Yeah, so same situations, full blood seidling.
You're having honest feelings about that reservations, right, you said, yeah, yeah, so you got to like get this. It's gonna be fine. You just have to get her to a place where you have to really come from a place where you're sharing it with her rather than prescribing it to her.
Yeah.
Absolutely, you know, I'm just navigating both her and being you know, a same sex couple with same parenting, which we don't have a lot of examples to pull from, so we're sort of making it up on the fly.
Just follow Brandy Carlyle on Instagram. She and her wife seem to make it work, even though Brandy Carlyle is on can you join a band on tour that seems to be a great Can you start doing stand up? Most people don't know? Okay, well, good luck with everything and keep us posted. Let us know. If that works out and you get her to come to therapy.
Awesome, Maybe I'll get her to come here and get therapy for me.
Bring her on.
Yeah, we are looking for couples. I'm not fucking joking. I like talking to couples. So if you could get her to do it, we'll set it up all right.
Thank you guys so much.
Paul, do you defer to your wife about your child, about your parenting like or does she defer to you who's in charge?
I think it depends on the moment. I feel like we both we both have our thoughts. I mean, sometimes it differs, but it's it's so it's so minor. It's usually around like should we keep them up in the car before you know what I mean.
It's stuff like that.
But I get what we was saying about, even because I feel like dads feel this way too, even if there are blood related it it's like, well they didn't.
Carry the child.
They also didn't if they if the child was breastflite, they didn't brestfeed, And there's like a bond that happens there. And in the beginning, dad, the dad is kind of like the butler, not you know, he's just like making sure everybody has the things, but not really doing as much.
So I do get that. I get what Breeze is talking about.
Yeah, I would definitely, like I even hearing it, like there's one birth parent and then there's one, so you're assuming a male role almost because you're like the dad or a traditional male role. But I would feel that like if I was in a lesbian relationship and my wife carried the baby, I'd be like, all right, one am, I allowed man out. It's like how you feel after a threesome, you know, when you're the extra.
Just like that, So how Paul W feels every day in his workplace.
Paul W always feels post threesome. I could tell. Oh, by the way, Paul, I just agree to do a residency in Vegas at the Cosmopolitan once a month.
I know, congrats. I love that.
I was inspired by the show No.
Get Out of here, get out of here.
I read that you guys spend so much time in Vegas, so you actually have to live there part time when you're shooting, right.
We actually hate to say it. We shoot mostly in La We're only there for like three days a season.
Oh okay, okay, that.
Makes you love.
We do love the Vegas portion of our shoot. We love you know, it's so it's it is the show. So I love Vegas.
I think it's.
I love the way her house is in Vegas with that long drive. I love when a driveway isn't is too long to be called a driveway and it's just a drive. It's a drive. That's what I say. Whenever I go to ted sarandas is the house, it's like it's a drive, you know, like it's a whole. It loops around the property and you're like, ooh am, I never never land.
I want to go. Everybody knows going I gotta go. Yeah, I gotta go to Ted.
The best hosts. Okay. So yeah, I love the way her comes into her house. I'm like, oh god, that's the only way you could get anyone to move to Vegas is to give them some strolling indoor amusement park for a house, you know, basically like, you have all the fixings you need here, you don't ever have to leave because it's fucking hot there.
Are you going to live there?
No, no, no doubt. I literally go. I fly. I perform once a month, so it's like, oh oh, not like a weekly thing, right. I tried to calculate in my head how many hours in a row I could stay in Vegas while also remaining stable. You know what I mean. I'm not I can't be trusted in areas like that or Monte Carlo.
Oh wow, Oh, Monte Carlo will be really fun. I would see you there.
I've been dying to throw Monte Carlo into something. Yeah, what do we have?
Well, now that we've hit Monte Carlo, our next caller is Kelly. Kelly is twenty nine and says, Dear Chelsea, I write to you because I need you to help me get the hell over a fear. My partner is a world traveler. It's one of her favorite things. She would love nothing more than to go somewhere extra cool with me. I also love to travel and take vacations, but usually ones I can drive to. You see, I'm afraid of planes. She and I have been together for
four years now. She's been patient and supportive, but it has been four years, and I owe it to her and me to shake it off. I refuse to fly for about twenty years now. I think my avoidance is rooted in past experience of turbulence, fear of no exit or control, a fatal plane crash occurring in a city my partner was visiting at the time, intrusive thoughts, and overall anxiety. My therapist is on board to help me
through the plane fear, even via virtual reality. My doctor has given me at Avan to use on my first ever adult flight, whenever that may be. In conclusion, I'm getting good building blocks toward my first flight, but the thought still horrifies me. I need Chelsea Handler to tell me to get the hell over it. Maybe tell me what's so good about flying. Your advice will help my
partner like me even more. Kelly, and Kelly, I do need you to tell us what you told me on our call together about like the last time you flew and when that was Yes, Hello.
Everyone, Hi, ahead, welcome, thank you so much, thanks for having me so. My last flight was in two thousand and five. I was very young and Hurricane Katrina was basically hitting as we were leaving, the hurricane was hitting and hitting, turbulence in the air just all of that combined really freaked me out.
Yeah, but you're fine. You're fine now, nothing happened. So look, the worst thing happened and you're fine. Yeah, I mean the worst thing didn't happen, but it came close to happening, or what you think was going to cause that. First of all, I don't know if this will help you,
but it helped me a long time ago. I don't have a fear of flying, but I remember someone telling me that when you're experiencing turbulence, it's almost like the opposite of crashing, like it is the most normal expected thing to happen, and that planes don't get into trouble during turbulence. That's not what causes planes to go out, you know. I mean maybe with weather changing the way it is because of climate change, that it could be it could escalate to that, But that's not where where
crashes come from. Turbulence. So you should know that and write that down in front of you so you could read that over and over again. You know what I mean for when you fly. I'm fucking serious.
But just you were fine.
You are fine, you are safe, you are fine, I am safe. Blah blah blah, over and over and over against yourself. To calm yourself down while you're on the plane and out of van didn't help you.
I haven't tried it yet.
Oh it's gonna be great.
You're gonna you're gonna love it. The other thing is, I would recommend you go to a hypnotist to try to get over this, because Kerrie Gainer's in LA. But that would require a flight, so I don't know. I went to him for smoking cigarettes. I have tons of people. Do you know who he is?
I've heard of him yet, Yeah, like he's.
This famous hypnotist.
Who is I had a friend who went for candy for like a sugar addiction.
I went.
I had a friend who went for biting her toenails. Okay, apparently the two biggest phobias are spiders and flying. Those are the or no sorry, fear of public speaking, and flying spiders are scary too.
We feel for the spider fear of people.
But can you look up a hypnotist? You have to try it, you do it? Three times and you will like, it works for a lot of people, so don't rule that out.
And you know, my uncle flies planes, and I'm like, this is crazy, this is scary. But you know what he said to me, and it actually is in my head all the time. Planes want to stay in the air the way that they're designed.
They don't.
It's hard to get them down. Actually, the landing is not to scare you, one of the one of the most treacherous parts.
Because necessary to say that what are you doing right now? So she gets on the plane, she's okay, and that she remembers what you said about the fucking landing.
That's the last five minutes.
Ruined the whole flight.
No flying, it's not it's not dangerous to land.
It's fine. It's it's all safe. It's safer than driving in a car. You know that. You've heard the stats.
It is safer than driving in a car.
Have you been in a Have you been in a golf cart?
Yeah?
So golf carts don't really have a suspension that lets them.
I mean, they're really bouncy, but they don't tip over, they don't roll, you know what I mean. That's exactly what turbunece is it's like it's like bounces. It's not going to make the plane all out of the air. It's like being in a golf cart, and I do I know that sounds crazy, but I do think because turbulence, I don't love it either. I don't know who loves turbulence, but I do think about the golf cart analogy whenever there's turbulence, and also that the plane wants to be in the air.
I don't think that line of thinking is helpful at all. Does that make you feel better?
Yes, I wrote all those down right. It's also like an overstimulation thing and not liking to be around people and have no escape. So I'm wondering what escape up for Like a first class flight that might.
Yeah, that will help a lot in first class will have Also, I think turbulence is less apparent in the front.
I think, yeah, okay, I took out a van for a flying because it was like a period where I was pretty nervous flyer and it like you still think like, oh I might die, but like it makes you not care that you might die.
It just takes that away.
I will also say, TikTok, there are a lot of people on there who are like, let me walk you through the different sounds you're going to hear as you're taking off or as you're landing. And here's why they're not scary. I recently stumbled across this and it made my next flight like so much easier.
To download TikTok.
Yes, well, get ahead of ourselves TikTok, yet don't ruin it. Probably stay away from it and just look up what she's talking about. Yeah, there on YouTube too, But does any of that help you?
Definitely? Definitely. I'm just really grateful.
You can do it.
Thank you. It's gonna you're gonna love it.
Yeah.
I just want to pick a place I really want to go to and then it'll feel really worth it. And hearing your words of encouragement is super help.
Yeah, get after it, because once you get that fly first flight down, then you can travel wherever you want, girl, And that's the that's the key to the rest of your life, like looking and seeing different new places. I mean, how exciting is that to know that you can go and travel around the world and you're not gonna be scared. Yep.
If Courtney can get Travis Barker to fly again.
You can fly again.
I think Courtney could get Travis Barker to do a lot of things that he hasn't done in a long time. He seems pretty devoted to her. Okay, well, good luck with everything, take care, Thank you so much, check care bye. I don't like these requests when people say I want Chelsea to tell me to get my shit together. I want Chelsea to tell me to go for a flight, because it's like that's all I have to say. Then, like they're not letting me decide what to say. Then I'm just like, go do it.
I think we give her a lot of stuff though, I think it was good.
Well, we did cover a lot of stuff. Think God Paul was here.
People just don't have like Chelsea handler confidence, so they're like, give that to me.
You know, it's not confidence, it's that I don't care, you know what I mean long enough to make a choice. I'm just like, let's go keep moving. Oh so, if you haven't checked out my opening dates in Vegas, check them out. They're on my website Chelseahandler dot com. We announced four dates in Vegas plus my all my other cities that I'm coming to get your tickets to Chelseahandler dot com before this tour finally fucking wraps up. We're gonna take a quick break, Paul, put your coffee down,
what you're on camera. We're gonna take a break, and Paul w and I are going to have We're gonna be back.
We're back, all right. Our last email comes from Kim. She says, Dear Chelsea, I recently went through my first adult breakup. My wife and I were together for twelve years, married for seven, and it has been the most difficult thing I've ever had to grow through. I love a double life, split between corporate America and being a comedian. I've been in a love hate relationship with stand up since two thousand and six, and right before the pandemic, I co wrote a web series that we finally put
in the festival circuit. I'm considering getting back on stage, and of course all my stand up friends are like, you have so much material. Let's just say that the way my marriage ended is very complicated and involves a hypnotist, a magician, a clown, and possibly a cult.
Can we get that hypnotist number for the other caller?
Well, that's hope, So I don't know if I have a lifetime original movie on my hands or comedy gold, but it's something that's the background.
And here's the dilemma.
My AX asked me to keep some information about our breakup on the DL because it could affect her career. Although I can easily tell jokes and not say her name directly, things do tend to end up on the Internet, and people that know us will very quickly put two and two together. I'm also not sure what protections I have if I decided to write a script or something
that's quote based on true events. I'm torn between feeling the need to protect someone that honestly really hurt me and wanting to dive back into my comedy world and tell my story Kim.
I don't know what the legalities around that are, because I know about writing a book how you have to change things for people so that no one can recognize who you're talking about. But you can still talk about the people things that experiences you've had. You just have to shroud who that other person is. And I don't know if just being in front of people who know that you dated her is enough of a connection that's still your experience you're not calling her out. You've had
other girlfriends, I'm sure. Well maybe it's been a long time. It sounded like so maybe not. But I think you can talk about her without don't say her name. Don't do that. If somebody asks for privacy, everyone has a right to privacy, even though I don't respect that, you know, but I think you should definitely pursue stand up and see what you've got in this material, because nothing is funny like tragedy, really nothing. You give anything two weeks and it is cooked perfectly to bring it out and
start sharing it. So I am a firm believer in the darker the moment, the funnier, the potential for funny is greater percent.
I think that the saddest stuff can be the funniest.
And also if you have material that I mean, it sounds pretty rich, that material sounds good. It feels like you have to do it, especially if the person hurt you.
I get it.
We don't wanna, we don't want to expose the person. That person has a right to privacy. But I don't know unless you have an hour of material about this woman who, then you know, you tape a special and it becomes huge. I don't think it's gonna impact her career. You know, people you guys have in common might be like, oh, they had a clown.
Yeah, exactly. By the time you would would get as comedy special, you're gonna have had had more girlfriends. So there's no direct relation. I understand, you've been with someone for twelve years, so when you say your ex, everyone knows who knows you, knows who you're talking about, but not everybody knows who you're talking about. So it is kind of a murky area. But comics do it all the time. My whole first set was about my ex boyfriend finding him cheating on me with not one, but
two women. I added the second one for storytelling purposes. There was really only one woman, but like I talked about him for like. That was my first set was just how walking in on my boyfriend cheating on me? So you can, I mean, people, that's what everyone is doing. Taylor Swift just wrote a song about Kim Kardashian and called it Thank You Amy, and it's about Kim. We all know it's about Kim Kardashian, So you know, I
would just say keep it. You've never said her name out loud, don't say it so you don't get yourself in trouble. But definitely, first you stand up and if it you know, if you're feeling it and it's vibing, then then continue. Conversely, if the opposite is true as well, don't continue. Okay, well, we're gonna wrap up with you. You're such a cutie pie, Paul w Downs. I had such a fun time with you today.
I am is an honor and a pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Okay, well, I wish you well. Say hi to my friends Hannah and Jen Statsky. Tell her I say hello too.
From childhood, I will indeed, Yeah, I'm tell Gene to come on.
Oh yeah, tell Gene. I want her on too. Yes, absolutely, you have to write apart from me to come on. So I can either have a love scene with no, I can't have a love scene. I can't even have a love scene with a man I once did. I once had to do a movie and they this is how bad you guys I was. I once had to do a movie with this actor and they wanted me to open mouth kiss him. And I took one look at this guy and I was like, I can't do that. You know, like I can't kiss this man. I just won't.
And so I went to the director and I was like, I know this scene is about us like making out, but obviously, like let's fake that because I'm not interested in this. And he's like, well, it's in the script, like you have to act, and I was like, no, no, no, it's not happening, like I'm not making out with that kid. He was like ten years younger than me. It felt disgusting and it was there was a situation, and I was like no, no, And then finally I was like I don't know what to tell you.
To the director, I I don't know what to tell you. It's not gonna happen. So finally he's like, okay, well what can happen? I was like, we could touch arms and then we're going to turn our back.
To the camera. No, you don't want to hire me from everything ever, anything. I'm terrible.
Well, okay, I'll keep that in Okay, keep that.
In mind, keep my behavior in mine. I would love to thank you so much, Paul w We love you.
Thank you, I love you.
Everyone tuned in to season three of Haacks if you haven't seen it already, it's streaming on Max. Okay, So upcoming shows that I have you guys, these are the places I'm coming in May Prior Lake, Minnesota, Verona, New York, Auckland, New Zealand, Wellington, New Zealand, Melbourne, Australia, Brisbane and Australia, Sydney, Australia. We've added second shows to places that have sold out the first and then I'm gonna be in Hawaii on Maui, Ka,
Hulue and Honolulu. I will be there in July. Also in July, I'm coming to Niagara Falls on July twenty seventh. I'm coming to Hollywood, Florida for my only show in Florida on July twenty eighth. I'll be in Auburn, Washington on August first, and then Santa Rosa, California for my second show August second. And then I'm coming to Atlantic City. MATEO o'line and I are co headlining a really fun show in Atlantic City this summer. August tenth August seventeenth
is the Santa Barbara Bull. You do not want to miss that. And then I will be all over Maine, Charlotte, North Carolina, Charleston, South Carolina. I'm coming to Texas. I'm coming to Saint Louis in Kansas City. I'm coming to Brooklyn, New York at the Kings Theater on November eighth, and I have tickets on sale throughout the end of the year in December, so if you're in a city like Philadelphia or Bethlehem, or San Diego or New Orleans or Omaha, check Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.
Okay, if you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine in Law, and be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com