Hi, Catherine.
Oh, hello Chelsea, Chelsea. I've got a couple of little updates for us.
Okay.
This is Emily who called in on our Lake Bell episode a while back. She was about to go into our last year of law school and was really intimidated about going out and trying to find fellowships, find a job.
I remember, Yeah, So she.
Wrote in and said, Hi, Chelsea, just wanted to give you an update since my podcast episode. I'm headed into my last year of law school feeling more and more confident about interviewing, getting a job outside of Ohio, etc. But even more so, many of my classmates resonated with what we discussed, especially the fear of rejection, and I think it helped so many of us realize that we are really in a collective experience and it's going to
work out in the end. Also, I just went to Chelsea's touristop in Columbus, Ohio, and it was the perfect way to start off my last year of school after the wonderful advice that you provided me last year. All the best, Emily, awesome.
Some love it, Emily love it.
Yeah.
People are moving and shaken, which is off into the world, Chelsea. Do you have some new dates for us.
Oh you know, I do?
You know, I do. I have a lot of We added lots of Canadian cities, Canadians, I'm coming. We added about fifteen new tour dates. I'm coming to Denver again, Salt Lake City, Vancouver, Richmond, Virginia, Santa Rosa, California, Gary and Diana, Baltimore, Verona, New York, and about seven dates in Canada. So go to Chelseahandler dot com. I am performing everywhere. I will be on tour all for the rest of the year through December, and then next year, I'm going to be touring all year. So come and
get it, you guys. It's good times and it's a very much needed reprieve from all the fucking madness that's going on in this world. So I'm here to bring joy and sunshine.
Yep, go see Chelsea and do some laughing because her show was fantastic.
Oh thanks, okay. Our guest has a new documentary out about her life, Joan Bias. I am a noise. Please welcome singer, songwriter and social justice warrior Joan Bias. What an absolute delight, Joe Bias.
Nice to meet you, so.
Nice to meet you. I was so enjoyed your documentary that I watched last night in preparation. It's called I Am a Noise And there's a lot to cover.
There is fire away.
So yeah. So you start out you grew up with two sisters, and you guys were pretty tight growing up, right. I grew up with two sisters too, So I under I understand that sister. I knew which one oldest, mid I was the youngest, youngest, yes, and you were middle middle yep. And so Mimi was younger than you.
She was four years younger than me. Yeah, yeah, and the older one was two years older. So okay.
And so you guys grew up in Yeah we grew up Yeah, which is a success in it and of itself. Growing up. And in the beginning of the documentary, you talk about your childhood and you're with your older sister and you just kind of are discussing your different kind of takes on your childhood. You didn't have such happy
memories but while you were growing up. The way I took it, in the way it was depicted in the film, was that you weren't really sure what had happened during your childhood, but that something had happened, that was just had disrupted you some sort of trauma that you were kind of dealing with throughout your young adult life and adult life and really couldn't put your finger on it until you went to the deeper stuff.
Yeah. Yeah, I mean I had help all the way through, starting at age fifteen, because I didn't you know, we didn't have the expression panic attack back then, but my life was one big panic attack to the next, and so that was a clue, but we didn't understand that, you know. So I saw good therapists and they helped me in round and under, but never to this since So that's what was my aim that I had to do. And in the film we try to depict that as
cleverly an understated way as possible. I'm not interested in giving details. It's too confusing for people. So I would say the film speaks for itself as much as it can, as much as I can.
And when you say you saw a therapist at fifteen, but that was so like supplied by your parents.
Well yeah, I mean I have to hand it to my mom. She kind of she kind of got it because back then people didn't go to psychiatrists, right, right, Our job with the film was to try and make that section about childhood trauma not so overwhelming that that's all anybody remembers. It's the most startling parts, so people refer to it. But the stuff, there's stuff that I learned from the film. I mean, I had no idea
really what my sisters felt. You don't say that to your sister, but they trusted Karen and O'Connor, who was directing, and so they were able to speak and say how they You know, my older sister that I basically sucked all the oxygen out of the room and when I walked in then she couldn't survive that and MADEI wanted to be a singer and was totally you know, confused about her place in the world. And my father was pissed off that I wasn't making a lot of money.
I mean, it was all it was all a big jumble. But I see it in the film in a way that I didn't see it before.
And how did it make you feel to learn that that's how your sisters felt about your success and in relation to you.
Well, I knew in a sense, but I never heard them really really say it. So I mean, watching the film. Each time I watch it, and I've watched it at a bunch of openings, is always a gut punch here and there of stuff that I'm learning for the first time, but there's also positive stuff that I'm learning for the first time. It is a big learning experience.
Yeah, I think it's really well done because you hint at some sort of trauma, but you don't reveal that it was sexual abuse until the end of the film. But I suspected that as soon as you said something earlier in the film about the panic attacks.
And well, it's interesting that you suspected. It just means that you know something about that world because some people don't know.
Yeah, I don't get it. Yeah, Well, when kids are having panic attacks and they can't really put their finger on it's something, right, Something is always up. And I think it's interesting that the domino effect of a career and a big life that can have on your siblings, Like you know, one of your sisters, your older sister, as you mentioned, had to retreat. She didn't want anything to do with it. She didn't like that, you know,
she didn't want any attention on her. And your other sister tried to kind of mimic what you did and ended up with a guy that she went and created a lot of music with, but who sadly passed away much earlier than expected. And then there's also just so much activism in this film that you did. It's so beautiful. I love it and can relate so much to your passion for activism, and then your relationship with Bob Dylan, which was heartbreaking. I didn't know that that's how it ended.
Well. I think it's sort of unique that I just said, I guess he broke my heart. You know, these people don't usually say that kind of stuff, but I just blurted out a lot of truths in the film. I figure it's supposed to be an honest legacy. I can't afford to hide stuff now, I mean my eighties. You know, I've gotten nothing to lose. Family's gone not gonna hurt any feelings in the immediate family. So I turned over
the keys literally to that storage unit. I had never walked in there until the film filmed me walking into my storage unit. I had no idea that my mother kept absolutely every letter, every little tape recording I'd said, and my father was a camera buff by the time he was ten, kept every eight millimeter he took of us and all his photographs, and it was all in that room. I mean, I knew about some of my own tapes that I knew, but I didn't know was
that orderly. I had nothing to do with that. Somebody else had to put it in order. You know. I said, do what you need to do. And if I had been involved with the making of the film, it would have just been a nightmare. I would have not wanted this, not wanted that, and chosen this. And I look good here, and we joke about courage. You know, took courage to be in the bombshelter, to courage to deal with the kou Klux Klan. But the real courage was letting them
fill this with natural light. You know. I didn't have any help from that, and I think that's important.
Well listen, if this is what eighty looks like, and this is what I'm rolling into, I'm pretty psyched about it because you're adoraball. I think you're beautiful, you're sexy, you're all of the things that nobody equates with being in your eighties. So thank you all done on that front, Well done on the superficial front. Let's get to the deeper stuff. Okay, let's talk about when you became successful on a level that you weren't anticipating. You're talking in
the movie about. I mean, it was obviously the time you were living in right that had an impact on the success of what people needed to hear. But what was the moment where everything changed. I know with Bob Dylan you were talking about it being in London, but for you.
The beginning probably bang, it was Newport. I mean I'd been seeing that wonderful little club and I had a following there, and it's kind of it was kind of leaking out of Cambridge and into Boston to New York. But then you know, Odetta invited me up to go to Newport, and then Bob Gibson, who was well known at the time folk singer, invited me up on stage, and that kind of did it. I mean it was a big First of all, there thirteen thousand people. I didn't know that many people got in one place at
one time. That was very cool, and I was very very nervous. I mean literally, you know the expression of my knees were shaking. Yeah, my knees were shaking, and I was, how am I going to do this? But then I went up, I did it, and it was a huge response, and you know, as Mimi says in the film, it was an overnight thing. And the next thing I knew, I was on the cover of Time magazine. And yeah, it was fast. It was fast, and you try to absorb that as a seventeen eighteen, nineteen year old.
And I was determined to not become commercial. And I, you know, I was a big pain in the ass because I didn't want all the stuff that people usually want. I didn't want red carpets, and I didn't want limousines. I didn't want flowers on the stage. And apparently I was just as difficult as anybody else.
And the whole time, you're writing letters to your parents saying, you know, I'm not growing enough. You're you're disappointed kind of in the path that you had taken in your success. You weren't able to maybe enjoy it as much because you were worried about your other skill sets in life and your other learnings that you felt like you were kind of missing out on. Is that accurate?
Yeah?
And also it was my father and somehow it translated to me that I would go to hell literally if I did certain things and did them wrong. So everything was measured a little bit. I was just a good thing. This is a bad thing. It's going to hurt somebody. So I know you're right. I didn't have time to really enjoy myself.
And then when did you meet Bobby Bobby Bobby Dylan?
I must have met him in sixty one or two.
And how long had you been successful and in the public eye.
At that point until fifty nine?
Okay, so a couple of years. So there's a there's a sequence in the in the film of you two singing together, and it is adorable. I have never seen him smile like that. I was like, whoa, these two are obviously having something. Something's happening with these two. You could see that. And at that point, was something happening or were you just friends?
I was a version of that point, you know, shock of ball shocks that moved on at some point. But so was a question about mom.
I was saying the scene in the film where you're postinging together on stage, Yeah, I don't know where that was.
Well, I wasn't a virgin anymore, so wow.
Okay, So were you guys in a romantic relationship at that point? Okay, yeah, it.
Seemed like and you know, and we were so young. I look at that and I just keep thinking we had our baby fat. You know, we were just kids, and so it was as fun as it looked. It was just adorable. That was the word you said.
Yeah, pretty adorable, very obvious the chemistry. And so how long did you guys stay together?
You and Bob Dylan on and off for a couple of years, I guess, I don't honestly remember how long this part of it lasted. And we stayed with me for a while in Carmel Valley and he wrote a lot of stuff. He wrote four letter word and dropped it on the floor and forgot about it, and I picked it up. I said, oh wow, this is really cool. And he would say something like tell me what it means? Can you tell me what it means? And I would give my best interpretation and he say, yeah, it's pretty good.
You know, after I dropped it, everybody's going to say this, this is a this is what this was? Violent? What the fuck is about? So yeah, and there he was this kid writing these amazing songs.
And that was your first love. Would you say no, no, would you say he was a love or yeah?
Yeah, yeah, my first love was a Harvard student. I was goga about for four years. We hadn't matching the rosies, so it went on really quite a long time.
Okay, so he was your second love?
He was?
Oh is there another one in between there? Wow, you were busy between seventeen.
And twenty one? Was but if people don't recognize the name, they don't count, well, yeah, I guess.
And there was Kimmy also oh yeah, yes, yes.
There was a young woman. Yeah that was. And it says in the film it was just a relief. I mean it was it was something new, and it was something sweet and I didn't have to get all riled up that it was a guy.
Right right. I always feel that I'm always like, just to block away from becoming a lesbian, you know, with the the dynamic between men and women, You're always like, well, at least that's an option later, maybe sooner than later, could you know, I know? And whenever. So when you guys went to London with Bob Dylan, like that was when his fame just became a jug or not. And that's when things you felt, I think you used demoralized.
Demoralizing, Yeah, I mean the act, the action was totally around Bob, and I could have jumped in there and hung on to his shirt sleeves and gone everywhere with him and been the center of attention as well, and I thought I just didn't want to do that, so I was peripheral and I suffered from that. But and then maybe it became too late to try and enter the boys club, but they were doing drugs. I didn't.
I didn't do this little folky addendum outside of you know, it's a fringe of everybody of the guys.
And there was an I mean, they were asking him directly questions about dating you, and he said, no, we're not together. She's just a friend, right right, right, which is in the film, And that was that was devastating.
But I really bring in now that the years of resentment and years of bullshit. And then I was painting his portrait. Bob was a younger, maybe the photograph was he was twenty one or something. And while I was painting this, I put on this music and I started
to cry and it was gratitude. It was just gratitude and all of the bullshit just literally fell away, and I was left with this gratitude that I was there, I was singing then, that I met him, then that his songs were then and at the moment, there's no reason. I mean, I'll joke about him because he's nuts, but it's not internally hurt and all that angst is gone.
Did he ever apologize to you?
You know, I didn't expect him to apologize when I look at that film, and maybe I'm just keeping myself from feeling anything, but I just see this kid. I don't know what was going on in him. I don't know if he was for some reason hurting as well. You can't tell, right, right, So that's a fair assessment. Yeah, I don't blame him. I mean, I'm sure I did then and for years philt. You know, I'd been done wrong, But I don't know what he was feeling and I never will.
Right, And because you went back on tour with him later.
Yeah, and that was that was a totally different scene, you know, And that was crazy and fun and I was on kuailude then, so yes, that was my drug experience. Was that was the only one.
What did quailudes do for you?
I just didn't worry about stuff so much, and for sex as well, you know, made it easier to get over the first number of hurdles you have to go through. I don't know, maybe you don't have to go through.
No, I think I have some of the same issues. You talk a lot about intimacy in this documentary. You talk a lot about about your not necessarily fear of it. It's it seems like you're kind of admittingly not so well versed.
In into inability.
Yeah, and over time, you don't think that you've been able to address that in therapy.
Or oh, sure I have on some levels. Well, I would say I went through this deep stuff and it was tremendous amount of work, the bone shattering work of remembering. And I did that for a number of years until I literally began to feel whole, which comes at the end of the film. Yes, I feel whole. And at the end of the hard work, when I felt like, oh, this is what it must feel like to be a person. It was sort of hinted at by this therapist, well, now you can go on and sort of start dating,
and I said, no way, no fucking way. I'm comfortable where I am. I don't want to wreck my life by taking on another level of work, and I didn't see it as a goody and start dating was oh my god, I can't do that. And that was a decision I made, and I've been very happy with it.
And do you directly link that that lack of intimacy to your childhood.
I would say to that, I call it trauma.
Yeah.
I mean we're molded by our childhoods. And even though I had repressed mine for half a century, I was being molded by it anyway. So all of that I did, all the sad songs I sang for three years without I think there was nothing happy in there at all. I didn't know why, and people had asked me why it suited me. I had no uncertainty ever about the voice. Yeah, I had inhibitions insecurities, but never about the sound of
the gift that I had. And because I consider it a gift, I never claimed it or felt proud of it. My I mean proud, yes, because the work I did, and my job was maintenance and delivery all the way through, you know. And I could talk about it from the outside. I WHOA what a voice? I listened to it sometimes that early stuff, I am blown away. I'm just it's just amazed me.
Wow.
Yeah. Well, during one of the interviews in the film, someone asks you, you know, do you still have this voice, and if not, do you miss it? And You're like, I absolutely do not have.
That voice, and I absolutely do miss it.
And I do miss it, but I'm focusing on what I do have.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And that got harder and harder, and that comes out at the beginning of the film. I'm struggling away with vocalizing and happily my Bouvier dog vocalizes with me at the same time to ease up on them, you know, on the pressure of it. But it go harder and harder, and so it just became effortful. During the tour, the last tour, yes, and leading up to that.
Yeah yeah. Just as the years went by, I got I bought myself about ten years by seeing the right vocal therapist, not just a trainer, not just a coach, but a therapist who could sort of manipulate on every level what I was doing with my voice. And it was a huge help that literally bought me sometime.
And how many shows did you do for this farewell tour.
Total usually we did about twenty between twenty and twenty five shows in general.
When I go out, yeah, on a tour bus with your son, yes.
And you know. The only thing and I kind of wished it had gotten in the film, but I didn't have any say about anything, was that the parties we did on the bus. We did the dancing and drinking and roaring down the highway. We call it bus dancing because periodically you're thrown into the seats. But we were family.
And it was a big, nice kind of repair. Can I say with your relationship with your son, spending that kind of time together on the road.
It began something I mean we had started and earlier on when your kids says weren't there for me, and you think, well, fuck you, I was. And then little by little, going through the therapy thing, you know what wasn't I was incapable of being present from my boy. And we've talked about this with a couple of moms in the last few days, and they said, all moms
think that they weren't present enough for their kids. And I think this is an exaggerated version of it, though, that I was gone so much and that he's so eloquent in the film and so forgiving, you know. But we started years ago going to therapist together, went to therapy together to begin, you know, the process of healing those wounds which were big. We're still going. I mean, we hit a bump in the rowe say, come on,
who's gonna call first? And set up with our latest referee, and we do and we go back, and you know, I just think that that gives hope to some people. The different things in the film we've discovered have been helpful to other people that you know, you can know you can go to therapy with your son. Wow, what a concept and make it through the tunnel with him.
And in the relationship his father. Spend some time in jail, yeah, for you know, activism, and you were assuming that you were going to probably spend some time in jail too.
Yeah.
But you did it, did you? Yeah?
I did. Yeah. When I'm stepping into the little patty wagon in the oh oh right, right, okay, but it was I mean it was rehabilitation center. Ha ha, Okay, it was kind of a joke. As far as jail time went, I enjoyed it. I gained eight pounds just eating commissary and really good food.
Weight gained been a problem for you in your life.
No, but I was lying on my stomach and my mom was in there with me. And the next event, I said, my stomachers turned out too, I had gained a bunch of weight and I shouldn't be sleeping on my stomach. So you know, it was not a big problem for me, but it was an important piece of political work. There were thirty women in there with me the first time and sixty the second time. Yeah, and it was an important part of that movement, supporting draft resistance.
Draft resistance, and you had you supported the civil rights movement a great deal too. There's some footage of you walking a little black girl into school for the very first time, and you say a beautiful thing, which you just said earlier about courage. It's not courageous to be holding that girl's hands. She's the one with courage to
be walking into that situation. So there's so many beautiful moments in it, and it's just a real beautiful tapestry I think of your life, and it starts out when you say something very powerful as well, which is I think there's a time in every artist's life where you realize you're not who you used to be, or you don't have the same quote unquote value that you used to have. Yeah, so talk to me a little bit about that, because you say anyone who doesn't admit that is lying, well kind of. Yeah.
People have different ways of sugarcoating. I remember hearing one I won't give the name, a very famous singer who'd had a little dip, should we say, And then she came back and the interviewer were saying, what's the comeback feel like you? Why didn't really go away? Well you probably did a little bit, but it's really hard to deal with. I blamed everybody but myself when the audiences weren't as full as big as they were. Well, they
didn't advertise it properly. Well, they got the haul wrong, I mean anything, but oh my god, things have moved on and I haven't moved with them. And then I was a dummy. And I think he says in the film too, I dropped my wonderful manager and hooked up with my cute road manager. Was taking too many drugs and was a little stupid.
Yeah it sounds like an idiot sort of.
It was the whole thing was idiotic and the bottom dropped out. I had no machinery and no decent record company, etc. Etc. It took a while for me to realize that's what was happening.
Yeah, And I think for all careers there are dips, and you know, there are ebbs and flows also, So just because you're out, does it mean you're over, because there is a comeback. It's just the recognition of that being a comeback for some of the artists is also hard to grasp because you had one of your hit records after that.
In the middle of it kind of what was the name of that? The song, well, the Diamonds and Rust was the one during that time period, and that wasn't I mean, I've had only literally three things that ever were two things that ever made the quote charts, and it was Dixie and Diamonds and Rust. Diamonds, Yeah, Dixie had been before, and then it was Diamonds and Rust. And then began the Great Desert. You know, beautiful albums
I made. And then I woke up in the middle of the night when I was was completely obscure and thought, sat up in bed, I thought, why am I making this beautiful, beautiful album? When nobody's gonna hear but my family, you know, I mean I was. That's when I realized, Yeah, I had to get moving on something. In the hired a manager, wonderful manager.
Yeah. I want to let you know. I was texting with my friend Juliana Marguley's yesterday. You know her. She's an actress. She was she played the nurse on er. She's she's done the good wife anyway. She was like, I can't believe you're interviewing bias. She's like, you don't understand. She's like, that was the only music I played on guitar in college. She's like, I could only play Jones songs because I was so obsessed with her.
So oh, I love hearing it.
Yeah, of course. And then towards the end of the film, you start you kind of reconcile your relationship with your mother, your father, your sisters. In a sense. Do you feel at peace with the way that all of those relationships? Yeah, I did.
I do. There's a saying I've heard, I'm sure one of my Buddhist friends. You can forgive a little bit and feel a little bit better, You can forgive a lot feel a lot better, or you can forgive everything and be free. So it's hard work. And somebody in a Q and A once said, well, how do you do forgiveness? I mean, it's so difficult. I said, yeah, you do it a little bit at a time. You don't have to all of a sudden forgive what seems unforgivable.
You know, you do it a little bit at a time, keep plugging away at it.
And was it was it hard for your son to watch that film or to know all of this information. Was he privy to this before.
The Yeah somewhat, but the film still was a shocker for anybody in my family or anybody in general. Yeah, yeah, I think you know. Yeah, he's seen it on the big screen twice and once, you know, on a link so he could see whether he wanted to come to see the big screen one or not. And he did and he appreciates it. And as I say, I appreciate his participating in it the way he did, same as
I do with my sisters. I mean, my older sister would never get in front of a camera or talk to anybody, but Karen O'Connor, who's the main director, really won her confidence. They became friends and Pauline was willing to say what she said.
When you say, you had no control over the film, so they just came to you with a concept and you didn't have any approval at the end or anything.
I had no approval and nothing to say to the whole thing. That's why I mean, would I say handed them the keys and it was the keys of the storage room, literally, because if I had tried to have some control, which I couldn't anyway, But if I had tried to, oh, don't put that, no, I look horrible, now, oh can you do this one? It would have been impossible to make the film. So I just said go
with it. And when I see it sometimes I think I wish that hadn't been in there, And then I realized what a brilliant movie it is, and that was a part of that movie. So maybe my ego might be a little bruise here and there, but for the most part, wrinkles and all I think the film is.
I think you should cut your slack into the wrinkle aspect of things. I think you don't realize how beautiful you naturally beautiful you are. You really are. You don't look like an old person.
Thank you. I don't feeling and old.
Wow, you don't act like one, and you don't seem like one, and you could still see the beauty of your youth in you today. Thank you, Mike. You were gorgeous and you are gorgeous.
When do I get to come back?
And here tomorrow?
You're coming back this week.
We didn't tell you yet. Where can people watch this film, by the way.
In theater and then it starts streaming on November twenty second, Hulu on Hulu.
Exactly check out Joan Bias I Am a Noise in theaters now or on video on demand on November twenty first.
Okay, let's take a break and we will be right back. And we're back.
We're back. Well, Joan, are you ready to give some advice?
Oh? Sure, Okay, what a joke? Okay, no, no, what are you talking about? So many years on this earth, everyone's advice is valuable.
Okay, they have to they have to believe it, whether they believe it or not. So yeah, go ahead.
Well, our first question comes from Blanca and her question is a little delicate, but you know you have been so I was spoken about your Mexican American heritage, and so I thought this would be a good question for you, she says, Dear Chelsea, I've always been a go getter. I was born in Venezuela to Spanish parents. I wanted to go to university in Spain, and although the process and odds seemed to be against me at the time,
both financially and academically, I did it. I also wanted to have my own business in my early twenties, and while I failed in many ways, I also succeeded and learned a lot from the experience. I moved to England nine years ago. I'm in my mid thirties now and I love it here. However, professionally it's been really hard. No matter how hard I work or how many great results I achieve, I have to fight really hard for
the bare minimum. I've had to work double hours compared to everyone else and show real results in all my jobs, thinking it would bring positive outcomes, but instead I've received a lot of hate in return, especially from my direct manager. Once at a large corporation, the HR director told me directly, you have come in and done a great job very quickly, and have angered a lot of white men. I'm not paraphrasing. Those were his exact words. The cycle has repeated in
different forms throughout the years. On the face of it, I have continued to push through and not given up on my dream to have a career I love. I have also taken the hardship as an opportunity to work on myself and be the kind of manager I never had, which has been very rewarding. So here's the issue. I left a job and a team I loved three months ago because of the same circumstances repeating. Unlike other times, I find myself deeply sad and my confidence has taken
a big hit. During job interviews, I seem to have lost my confidence and I can't sell myself or the great work I've done. I'm not sure if I'm being realistic about the dream of having a career or if I'm just part of a system that wants to see my potential die. I don't want to give up, but I'm out of ideas as to what's best to do next. What should I do? Thanks for creating this space, Blanca.
Oh gosh, tough one.
It's a tough one.
I know. I would definitely say never to give up on what you are passionate about. Because of a bunch of white men telling you that you can't do it. But Joan, let me. I'll let you speak a little bit about your own experience or your thoughts on this matter.
What's standing out to me is some old white men, because it really is a symbol of the fascism that's traveling around the world. I have a friend, an Italian friend. He's in his nineties now, but I remember him telling me stories about when he was a kid and he woke up with the sound of tanks running through, you know, running through his block where he lived. When I called now a half a year ago, a year ago, I said, how are you? He said, Oh, he's the Interday's thing.
I was born in fascis, I will die in fascis, and it's coming, and it's here. It's hard for us to admit that or see it. So it's going to be a struggle for everybody. And I, you know, I don't know how to give advice from from here my privileged position, except that somehow all of us will need to hang on to decency, so, you know, try to promote just human decency with each other. Would be different years ago, I would have said, you know, link arms
we shall overcome. Let's go march and right now the odds are so huge that you somehow have to find your I mean, what do we with that you said, don't give up your passion. You have to find something that you really believe in, and I just suggest that'd be something that benefit other people as well as yourself.
Is there anything that either of you would say to help her sort of reading her confidence? I mean, in my mind, I'm like, tell your future employers this that you've had to work twice as hard, you know, talk about the extra steps you've taken to make sure that you shine in your roles. But is there anything that you would say to the confidence aspect and like helping her pick herself emotionally off the ground.
I think letting other people deteriorate your confidence is exactly what they want. You know, people when they tear you down or they don't, you know, want to acknowledge your good work, it is because they want you to think less of yourself because they also think less of you, and they want to impress their opinion on you. So allowing that to happen is letting them win. I know,
it's not a choice. You're not choosing to lose your confidence, but you're allowing them to ship away at your confidence. And I think you have to do some inside work, whether it be mantras to yourself, whether it be journaling every day to reclaim your value.
And find people who of like mind and that's who's really important. Maybe she has that, but to have people who support you is absolutely essential. Maybe not that easy to find, but they're there. If you're there with your struggles, there's somebody else who's there as will. And the power begins to come when you have each other. It makes it easier to speak out, makes it easier to have courage, find three people.
Yeah, men can be very insecure about their own standing and they can be very intimidated by women who have something to offer because it means we don't need anything from them, you know what I mean, that's their insecurity.
You know.
I've been told, well, just play into it, work it, work it. I'm not really in a position that I need to work it or play into any of that bullshit, you know, And I'm lucky because sure that you are not in the same position, because you do need to work, you need to take these job opportunities. But I just want you to know it's men. It's not only because you're a woman of color. Men are scared of women that are strong, and men are scared of women that
are capable. So I hope you can take some solace in knowing that that happens to people in different positions and you're not alone, and it's up to you to instill in yourself the confidence and not let people chip
away at that. And I promise you like the power of positive thinking, the power of positive mantras, the power of meditation, and positive just feeding yourself in a positive loop of like value of what your value is, all the things you're good at, you know, waking up and telling yourself this is what this is what I'm great at, and naming ten things and just kind of building your confidence back up so that their slaps and strikes against you don't knock you over.
You know.
It just kind of becomes like a breeze that blows right past you. And it's easier said than done, but it's definitely doable. So that's what I have to say on it.
And I'm thinking of a friend of mine who wanted people of like mind to be part of his life. New apartment after a few weeks not really making any friends, put a signed up saying I will be meditating at eight o'clock in the morning. Here's the place, join me if you feel like it. And it took a while and then pretty soon there was a group of people who really were comfortable with each other and they spent
half an hour hour in silence. I don't know how many days a week, but really important bonds that way.
Community building, Yeah, yeah, you have to create a scene that is safe for you. It's funny. I was talking to Brandy Carlisle the other day. We're at the Angel City game, the soccer game, and she was talking about creating a music scene because she said where there was no scene when she came up, she needed a scene.
Like she's made a scene.
Yeah, she's made exactly, she created a scene. And it's like, I think that can apply to community as well. You create your community. You know, there are ways, like I love what you just I don't know if this woman is a meditator or anything like that, but there are ways to find solace within all of the chaos. And you're definitely not alone in the chaos. So anyway you can community build create a scene for yourself that is a safe space that refortifies you right and kind of
rebuilds your self esteem, et cetera. And it still is a calmness within all of this.
Yeah, yeah, well keep us post to Blanca. Our next question comes from Calli and she's going to be joining us on the zoom here.
So, okay, this is a live caller, Joan, you better get ready.
Okay, I'm ready. I'm live too.
Amazing, so Cally says. I'm a twenty four year old living in North Carolina with my fiance. I came out as bisexual a few years ago when I met my fiance, and she has been the greatest thing to happen in my life. However, while my mom has been one hundred percent support of the relationship, my extended family have always been a little shady. They're devout Christians, the kind that
believed that same sex marriage as a sin. However, when they met my fiance, they said they loved her, were welcoming, and I thought maybe they were conflicted with the subject in their religion. They led me to believe they'd be coming to our wedding next fall. Recently, my cousin got engaged and fast tracked her engagement by getting married this fall well. I accepted my cousin's invitation and a few days later checked in with my family to see if
they'd be coming to my wedding. The worst forty eight hours of my life began. One of the messages that came in said they wouldn't be able to come, but send their quote best wishes. I wrestled with the decision of whether to back out of my cousin's wedding and ended up deciding to go be a part of it. I felt I was no better than my aunts and uncles if I didn't go, and I'd be putting the same negative energy out into the world that they were moving forward. I don't know the relationship I want to
have with my family. I was extremely close with them growing up, and it feels like the people I once knew are gone. Am I ridiculous for thinking I can hold out in hopes they realize the mistakes they've made? Or should I save myself more grief by cutting tie?
Now?
Callie, Hi, Kelly, Hey, this is Joan Bias, our special guest today, Lucky you.
It's great to meet all of you.
It's nice to meet you.
Sweet, nice to meet you too. First of all, sorry you're going through this. I'm so fucking over religion. I really wish everyone would just stop it. I mean, it is just the basis of all discrimination and war and wreckage. So that's annoying. We get calls like this a lot from people calling in with families I can't accept their
children's relationships. And I don't know, Joan, you have more life experience, so I'll let you speak, obviously, but I just want to say I don't think there's any time to waste in having people in your life that don't support you and love you like I just don't think it's worthwhile. And I know people feel differently about family members. I feel very vehemently that you should only be surrounding
yourself with people that love and respect you. And I totally agree with you going to your cousin's wedding because it's just another chance to demonstrate what they're missing out on when they don't want to celebrate you.
Yeah, exactly, that's kind of I mean, that's part of the reason why I went. I wanted to see my family that was supportive. I just wanted a chance to be with them, and then I was also like, if I'm not going, I'm just putting that same negative energy out into this world. And I didn't want her to feel the way that I felt when I showed up that.
Day at the wedding.
I didn't know how she would feel if I didn't show up, and I just didn't want her to go through that same pain that I was. And so I am happy that I went, but it was definitely difficult, especially to look some of them in the eye and act I guess civil I don't know, like everything was okay. It's really hard to do that when it's your identity that they want.
A question and how did you feel after that wedding? Did you feel good about yourself and good about those interactions? Like how did it make you feel?
I felt strong when I left.
I think I was proud of myself for putting up sort of with those that I know weren't supportive of me, just to see those that were because I had a good time with them. I got to spend some time with my little cousin and that really meant a lot to me. So when I walked away, I felt strong. But I'll be honest, the minute I got away from them, I started to cry. I think it was just that acceptance of I'm never going to have that feeling, that comfortable feeling with my family again.
That is gone.
And I think that's why I was questioning should I still try to reach out to them? Should I still try to have a relationship, because I think for me it's forever that feeling is going.
To be gone.
I think I go directly to Dan Savage, which is they may come around. They may come around when you least expect it. And I think you've done absolutely the right thing because all you can do is have your own empathy for them, which you've shown, and they will learn something from that, even if they even if it's not conscious at the moment. And I think giving it
some time is also important. And it's really frustrating because you want it to be okay now, But I think you are doing absolutely the right thing.
Thank you.
Yeah.
I think I wonder in the future down the road, will they regret not getting to come to my wedding, like making that decision.
Will they regret it? I don't know, maybe, but.
Yeah, yeah, I think that's something that we all wrestle with, you know, when people kind of reject us, it's like a breakup, you know, are you going to regret leaving me? And hopefully they will, Hopefully they'll come to their senses at some point and feel like it feel how silly this is. I mean at this point in the world.
I mean, to honestly not be accepting of gay people is absolutely ridiculous, you know, And to hide under the umbrella of religion for that with your own daughter is ridiculous. So that's not what love is. And I don't think as much as you're going to wonder or hope for their regret. It's all about you holding your head up high. Going to your cousin's wedding. Was you holding your head up high? You should be proud of that. And then you note what it made you feel like when you left.
If you felt like shit when you left, which you did, then that's you and your brain telling you that's not good enough for me. You're operating at this level. They're still down here. If they want to come up to your level, they can come any time, but they have to accept you and your partner. And that's just it, And it doesn't have to be mean in the way you say it or it doesn't have to be heavy handed.
It's just like, that's the reality. This is the person that I love, and this is who I'm choosing to spend my life with. And if you can respect us and show us both respect and love, great. I'm happy to see you guys anytime, but until then, I don't need you in my life.
Boundaries, boundaries, boundaries.
Yeah, And Chelsea talks a lot about sending people love, and I think this is maybe one of the only things you can do in this situation, because you don't know if and when one or more of them might quote unquote change their minds and talk to you about like, wow, I can't believe I did that to you back then. It may never happen, but like it also very well may. And I think until then, you know, you can send them love, but you can't stake your own self confidence
on it. And I don't think that you are right.
I don't neither.
Yeah, And I think you know you could look at it this way. Once you remove your family, you have so much room for other people. You can make a whole new family, you know what I mean. Your bandwidth becomes bigger because you have more room in your life, so you could think about it that way as an expansion.
And how is your fiance's family. Are they all accepting and loving?
Yeah, they're all accepting, loving, They're all already intending to come to the wedding. And so it was a shock for me when we received the messages from my family that they wouldn't be attending.
Due to religious reasons. But it was also a shock for her.
I think I was surprised by how much it affected her, but I know it's because we're in this together and that was meant to be her family soon and just so she felt.
That real same rejection that I felt.
But you guys were making the point about keeping that door open, and that's I think what I was intending to do by going to the wedding is I had friends in the past who, also because of religion, didn't believe that my identity was okay or my relationship was okay.
And so I've had practice with understanding how do you keep a door open but protect yourself, And so I feel like that's what I was just trying to do here with going to the wedding, but also setting those boundaries, like you said, give.
More time to your fiance's family and the people who love and support you, because that's where your strength is going to come from.
Yeah. Just trying to fill my life with the people that are going to respect me and my relationship.
Yeah, all right, thank you, Kelly.
Thank you, and I have a great wedding, Kelly. Lots of love and support.
Thank you so much.
Guys.
Yeah, bye bye. I always wonder it's so crazy to me that you could be a mother and just discount your child based on who they're attracted to. Like, how lame is that because of some what? Because God is telling you in a book that somebody made up? I mean, it's so stupid.
Yeah, it wasn't. What Jesus said was love one another. I mean it's pretty basic.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And you don't know what turmoil they're in, right, because they must be some kind oft in there.
It's like a perpetual intergenerational traumatization. You know, everyone is so traumatized, and everyone's just got this narrative in their head that they keep perpetuating and perpetuating, and then with the cycle breaks, everyone's like wait, what, no, no, no, we're not doing that. It's like they'd rather be in the cycle of drama.
Than break it and they can't be happy. Yeah, no, it can't be happy.
Right Well, our next color is Gael. Gail says Dear Chelsea. I recently moved back in with my mother this May. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder when I was twenty four, now twenty eight, and learning to cope with this illness has been a journey. I was hospitalized several times this year and had to leave my dream job in a city that I loved, Boston. I currently live on Cape Cod with my mom and feel blessed, but I'm struggling to feel connected to my greater sense of purpose. To
say the least, I'm in a period of transition. I feel out of touch with my dreams and aspirations since my relocation. The majority of my life, I've been a type A person and that has not served me. Most recently, my new motto has been take it easy, and I've been doing just that. Now my health is back on track and I'm looking for advice on how to realign
with a future that's meaningful and fulfilling. Since leaving my job and spending months in the hospital, my finances aren't great either, but of course, when it rains, it pours. I know living with my mother isn't permanent, but how do I reconnect with my goals without feeling too down about where I am currently? Any advice on how to make each day count all the best?
Gail? Hi, Gail, Hi, Hi. This is Joe Biah's our special guest today.
Hi you hi.
I heard her speak with you.
I know, isn't it? Okay? Let's get you up and running. Okay, Okay, so you're living with your mother. Listen, who gives a shit? That's fine. You know, you're not a man, you're a woman. You're allowed to live with your mother. I'm not sexist in any way in favor of women. By the way, how old are you? How old did you say? You are?
Twenty eight?
Okay, so everything's fine. Just you know what I mean. You You're going to be fine. You're only twenty eight years old. This is fine. All of this is fine. And in terms of reconnecting, you just have to get yourself in this position of covering the basis of like every single day to get you towards the goal of where you want to be. You know, like, let's talk about where you'd like to see yourself in six months. You want to have a job, Yes, I.
Mean I'm doing all these sorts of odd jobs here and there, but in six months, I like to have something, you know, full time with benefits like I had, you know before.
So yes, okay. And so what is the area that you're Are you going to move into the same area you were in before? Are you looking to move into a different area.
Well, I'm considering staying where I am, so I also want to move out in six months. So I'm kind of thinking wherever I can get a job that's going to allow me to move out and sustain myself.
Great, So how are you going to do that?
Oh, I've been applying to a ton of jobs, so I actually have an interview tomorrow, which is exciting.
Okay, great. And what field of work are you in?
So I did design for a while and I want to, you know, sort of shift out of that in the future. But this is another job in design. It's sort of sales consultant.
Okay. Well that those jobs are plentiful, so you can definitely line up job interviews for yourself in the next few weeks so that you have a cascade of them rather than just one, right, Do you have anything else lined up in terms of an interview.
No, that's the only one, So you're right.
More okay, so more outreach. More. What part of the country are you in.
I'm in Massachusetts, Okay.
Are you close to Boston?
It's like an hour and a half.
Okay, Well, then there you got to I mean that should be your aim. No, would you are you interested in living in Boston?
Yeah, that's where I moved back from. I was living in Boston before. I was working at a design firm and it was great, and then you know, I have to move back with my mother, so you know, going back to Boston would be wonderful.
And your bipolar disorder is you're on medication and that's completely under control.
Yeah, but I'm I'm medicated and it's under control.
Thank goodness.
Okay, yeah, thank goodness for that. So so all you've taken all the steps in the right direction, like you are very conscious of where you need to go, and you first I think your first goal would be, you know,
do a more outreach in the Boston area. So you have a whole slew of job interviews lined up, reach out to anyone that you know in this field, anyone you've worked with before, letting them know you're interested in getting back into it, that you're interested in getting back into the Boston area, because that's where you're going to probably have the most you know, luck in finding a job.
I would think in that city, since there is so much action there, and even while you could even commute there, you know, it being an hour away, you could take a train, and you could take a bus, you could drive to Boston. Whatever you you know, whatever you need to do. So I think in the immediate future that should be what you spend the next couple of weeks doing is outreach to procure more job interviews.
Okay, that's great, thanks.
And I think and Joan, you can chime in anytime if you want to. I would say, obviously, worry about the job before you worry about move out. You want to get situated and get into a stable situation working
for somebody. And I would say after about three months, once you do get a job, and I'm confident you will get one sooner than you probably think, then you can start thinking about where you want to live and where you can afford to live based on how much you're earning and maybe you stay with your mother for six months, maybe you stay with your mom for nine months, maybe it's a year. Don't beat yourself up about that, because you want to set yourself up for success, not for failure.
Yeah.
Thanks, I think I haven't really known what to do first, so it's nice to hear that go for the job first, because that will make everything easier. Once I have the job, then I can plan my next step.
And I didn't become really successful. I just want you to know until I was thirty two years old, so you have four years. I waited tables my all of my twenties. I wrote a couple books, and I had a couple gigs, but I wasn't like on my own doing everything until I was thirty two. Completely independent and financially free until I was thirty two years old. So
please do not worry about your age. It's about your health, your mental health, getting yourself in a strong situation so that you're going to succeed, not so that you're going to overdo it and then have to come back and live with your mother. You want to set up like this ballast of support around you so that when you leave it's for the last time.
Yes, absolutely, that's exactly what I want.
Joan, What do you think I think you've said it all. I have absolutely nothing to say.
She became successful at a very early age, and that can have its shortfalls too, you know what I mean. It's good to go through this stuff in your earlier years rather than have this like hit you when you're thirty eight or forty eight. So there are a lot of things to be grateful for that you feel probably like our big stumbling blocks now that are not they're not stumbling blocks now because you can pick yourself up
more easily at this age. So you live right outside of a major city, not far outside of a major city, You're going to have a lot of like opportunity unity there.
And I think you just have to like put out every antenna you can to any and think and just write down a list of all the people that you would feel comfortable reaching out to, and then do research online about all the companies and design companies that are in the Boston area and you know what they offer, and even if it's something that doesn't feel like it speaks to you exactly, I would say, put out a feeler, you know, just try and get as much into information
you can about what's out there right now.
Okay, thanks, I've not really been doing that, so that'll be my next step.
Yeah, you should use your time wisely while you have it, you know, and also pick up some books on you know, design and career and like meditation and things that are going to keep you grounded. Develop some good habits now while you have the time to add to your toolkit so that you don't find yourself in this position again.
And doesn't it help that it's possible that it's the person you run into or the people you run into it defines where you want to go.
Yeah, yeah, that's very true.
I mean it's like in school, really kind of bored with the whole thing until you find a teacher you really love and it almost doesn't matter what the subject is. So I think that could be in there a little bit. If you find somebody who inspires you, a group of people who inspires you, then go from there.
Okay, thanks.
One little tip for like, right before you do your interview tomorrow, look up power poses Google power poses. You will look and feel very goofy doing them, but it's basically if you think of you know, when you see somebody who's like just made a goal in a sports game, like the power pose that they do, or they're like, yeah, do those for about three minutes before you go into your interview. You can do them in the privacy of your own home, you can do them in the bathroom
at the place you go into. But there's actually like a marked difference in the ratio of people who get hired after doing those versus not doing those. It just does something like to raise your confidence, and it like puts that confidence into your body, even though it feels totally goofy.
So do a quick Google after after this call.
Okay, power poses, got it?
And also visualize how you want the interview to go beforehand. You know, that really matters. Manifesting like positive experiences. Visualize you being enthusiastic and excited about the potential of this job, and visualize them being responsive to that excitement and wanting you to be part of their team, and just visualize it all being successful. That matters too. You know, sometimes we do the opposite and it's like, no, we don't. If you focus on something negative, that always has a
tendency to kind of become a reality. When you focus on the positive aspects of a situation that tends to become a reality. So don't undervalue that or underplay that. Really sit with yourself because you have an intention. You want to get a job. You're looking for the right job. You're not just going to take any job. You want to get into a job that's also going to you know, use your strengths and play to your strengths and what your talents are.
And I agree with Chelsea that visualization and the positive thing ahead of time. I did that for most of the second half of my career once I learned how, which for me it was also with self hypnosis that somebody taught me, so I could get to a certain level of subconscious and then talk to myself, this is how it's going to be, this is how I'm going to feel, and then even go into what am I going to wear? How am I going to walk? How am I going to greet these people? And you just
really lived through a lot of it. Visualize. I'm big on visualization, I think as Chelsea is as well. That's my two bits.
Thank you, Okay, I want you to keep us posted. Okay, check in with us in a few weeks and like give us an update. I want to know what happens with you.
Okay, I will keep you the updated.
Okay, we're invested in your future.
Thank you, thanks so much.
Call bye son. Okay, should we take a break first, Let's take a little break. Okay, we're going to take a little break and we'll be right back. And we're back. Jan is undressing. Joan is undressing.
That's what we do.
That's what we do. It between breaks, somebody takes their top off. I was surprised for it to be Joan, but you know well.
Our last question comes from Jessica. She says, Dear Chelsea, my curiosity about mushrooms has grown significantly lately, and I'm interested in trying some micro dosing.
How I have some in my purse right now. I wish you were here. I would give them to you, mushroom gummies.
Jessica. However, my only experience in this world of self medication is alcohol and weed. I wanted to ask you whether you think it's a good idea for my friend and I to try shrooms for the first time at your show, since we have tickets. Who better to try mushrooms with than the doctor handler. My hesitations are worrying whether it will make me anxious or if I would get nauseous or anything like that. I essentially don't want to sign up to embarrass myself in public thoughts. Jessica.
Okay, well, this is what I would recommend, Jessica. You should microdose. You don't take a whole thing of mushrooms for the first time, and if you can do it in a chocolate or form or pure mushroom form. I don't like those capsules. The only time I've ever felt nauseous on mushrooms is with those capsules. Every person is different, so that's my DNA versus your DNA. But I really would impress upon you you can't really do anything wrong or too badly if you're microdosing. Like most people can't
even feel a micro dose. So I would start there and definitely do it at my show because you're not gonna have to be thinking about anything. I'll be doing all the work for you. Do you take mushrooms job?
Not yet? Any time? Do you really have someone you I will take some with? Okay, perfect?
Yeah, And I think like it's always good, you know, like a sit of mushrooms is I believe like three or four grams. What they put in a microdose is like point point zero point zero zero one gram or point zero one gram, so like you're gonna be okay, but just make sure it's a micro dose. And then you decide, oh I like this, I like a little more. Don't say I don't feel it, and then double down, don't do that.
Yeah yeah, yeah, great, well, Jessica.
I love ending on a mushroom note perfect. Now I have to doast Joan and everyone, you guys, please watch this documentary because it's so beautifully done. And like I said before, which I liked the way I said it, it's a tapestry of someone's life. And I watched it twice last night because I watched it once and I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything. So when you said you watch it, you see different things,
you know, I think we all obviously do. You kind of miss things a certain time, but it's it's just captivating. It's just it's a snapshot of a time, you know, when I wasn't old enough to understand, you know, what was going on, and I but I know about all those events and I know about you, So it was really beautiful to see and you're really going to enjoy it, and especially if you're a music lover, because her voice is just so unique and so soulful. Thank you, Joan Bias.
Thank you, Chelsea. I learned a lot today from you. Oh really long, No, it was just lovely. Thanks, oh, thank you, thank you so much for being here.
Do you have a holiday themed question for Chelsea? Please send us all the questions you need answered about crazy family get togethers, arguing over which Cranberry sauce recipe to us, and all your holiday drama. Just send your questions to Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine law And be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com