Back by Popular Demand: Julianna Margulies

good afternoon, Good afternoon, Good afternoon. I have such a funny story. So well, it's not that funny, but Juliana Margulie's who any avid listeners should this podcast know that when she was on, she was so great and I was texting with her after telling her how great she was in the response I had gotten, and then she was like, if anyone ever falls out, will you please let me know I would like to come on again. And then someone fell out this week and I was like,

you know what, let me text Julietta. Then she was like, yes, I'm down, And so how cute is that? That's our guest today, You guys, and that's how it transpired. Julianna Margut Liz is our special guests back by popular popular demand. Yes, by her demand. Also by her demand, We're open. And she's also going to be in the third season of the Morning Show, reprising her role, so you can look forward to that. If you miss The Good Wife, e Er and everything else that she's ever been in, you

can tune into the Morning Show on Apple TV. She also has a great book out that I've read, which I'm going to read again, Sunshine Girl. Yeah, Sunshine Girl and Brandy Carlyle's book. Those are two great books that I read autobiographies. Please welcome Julianna Margut lese Hi, Hi, Hi, without any further ado, We're gonna hop right into it. Back by popular demand. Julianna Margut lies is back with us today because we had such fierce responses. Right, yes

we did. I got so many emails about that EPI yes, I got so many, Julianna. So many people are like, oh my god, Julianna Margutis, like, you guys are so connected. I said that to Julianna, I go, I feel very connected to you. Especially after the podcast. I just felt like your openness. It was just so infectious and people really responded to it, and I think you really were able to help so many people. Oh that makes me happy. I love it. I love it, I really do. I'm sorry.

I'm on zoom and a mess, but I've been out in the depths of the woods to old day to day with contractors trying to get lime disease. What were you up to? I stay away from that. No. Um, We're trying to build something in our house and I have to meet with contractors. And here's my problem. I know you're in the middle of a renovation. I'm always in the middle of a renovation. Always in the middle of a renovation. I'm always homeless. I kind of love it because I love the creative process of it. But

like meeting contractors, I love them all. I don't want to say no to one because I feel bad. And that's my problem. And I literally looked at the architect and I was like, I don't know what to do. He was like, wait till the bids come in, blah bah blah. But so my my problem. These are champagne problems, I know, but my problem is always saying no to people. Yeah, I have that problem too, whenever I'm like, I remember

hiring directors, meeting with directors. I was doing a documentary series for Netflix, and I was meeting with all these directors and I was just like, Okay, let's hire that woman. And then the next guy, I was like, oh, I like him too, very good too. Yeah. And my cousin always like, you have no discernment like between people, and I was like, what, that doesn't seem like it goes with my personality. But it does for some reason. You know,

after reading your last book. I've read all, but after reading the last one, I feel this tremendous connection to I feel like you aren't that person. Yeah, well maybe I worried about you do worry about everybody. I see how you take care of your family and how you do that's sweet. How has your summer been going, Julianna, My summer has been going very well. My son came off the bus from camp an inch taller and his voices, no, oh,

that's so bitter. You know, my whole his whole life, I've looked down at him when I tell him to do something, and now I'm like, um, and that's just the beginning. So he's fourteen and a half. So it's been it's been nice having him back home, and it's been good, gentle gentle summer. Yeah, yeah, pretty good. We are going to take a quick break so you can hear and add and then we'll be right back. How was your vacation? How is your Oh? My god, I had so many vacations. They've been so great and like

healing and friends and family and strangers and people. I've new people. I love meeting new people. I always love meeting new people, especially British people. I have an affinity for British people. So in Greece it was my friends sisters getaway, she and all of her British friends and their couples and their kids. I'll go to this island, Left Cotta, and I had never been to Left Cotta.

I had also never flown on easy Jet. I don't know if you guys are familiar with that, but it is something to avoid for the entire world because it sounds like a cheap ticket. It's yes, it's like being airlifted in a I don't even know why they have seats. You should just be standing because that's how uncomfortable it is. And my friend was like, it's a three and a half hour flight back to London, and I had my own plane ticket booked, but they were leaving a day

early and they had gotten their tickets confused. And she goes, okay, I have some bad news. You're gonna have to fly with us. That's the good news. The bad news is we're going to uneasy jet and you're not gonna like that. And I was like, okay, I go, you know what, just give me an edible. I can handle anything, you know, and we got on it. I read an entire book, Daisy Jones and the Six By the way, Julianna, if you're looking for a good quick fiction read, that's really

really good. I love when I finish a book, you know, in a couple of days, when I get sad I missed them. Yeah. I have always had a rule in my house not to have a TV in the bedroom because I'll just watch it rather than read before I go to sleep. Yeah. I mean, of course, it's also better for a relationship. But nothing makes me more depressed than someone falling asleep to the TV in their own bed and then waking up at three in the morning the TV than But when you have a book you

like read, your dreams are better. There's no none of that the rays of the television going into your head. I always say to my kids, the best gift we ever gave you was your love for reading. Yeah. A friend. No matter where you are in the world, a book is a friend. A book is a happy, safe place. Yeah yeah. And you know what I've realized recently is that I'm reading too much serious shit. Like I love to be like analytical and think about things and have

things that provoke my thinking. But at the same time, I'm like, no, it's an escape also, and I deserve to read fun things. That's why this book, Daisy Jones and the Six was like a departure from what I normally read, and it was such a welcome reprieve because I was like, oh, this is like being in a fun different world, you know. No, it's so important. Disappearing into a normal is my favorite thing to do. Yeah yeah. The idea is to go into someone else's world and

not have to be in your own. I love a memoir, and I love but it's hard because whatever you read when you're reading really tough stuff, I'm reading a memmore right now. Called Unraveling, which is actually fascinating. It's not out yet. I'm reading it to give her a blurb. But it's by Peggy Ornstein and it's called Unraveling, and it's about She's a huge author, New York Times bestselling author who writes about um, sex for girls and sex for boys. She she talks about gender and children. And

she was a journalist. But in the pandemic she's a knitter, and I think, I guess. She said, I don't know how people know ship, but I knit. I've always knitted. I don't have a knit in a while, but I used to be a big knitter. Anyway, she decided she wanted if she was gonna knit, she has to learn how to share a sheep and the whole store. And I thought, are you fucking kidding me? I said yes to this, and I'm gonna be on a farm like

sharing sheep. It is so fascinating the rabbit holes because she's a journalist and because she's an author and a great writer. It's all about her experience sharing the sheep is unbelievably difficult. And also she goes into what we're doing to our planet with all these bad you know, all the cheap, easy clothing that's like the landfills. And then she goes and she said, once I saw it,

I couldn't unsee it. I think that's what's hard about reading really realistic books, is that once you go there, you have to change because now I literally was like, I'm just gonna run into this store and buy it, and I thought, is that going to be landfill? I'll just buy vintage? Then, oh my god. And and and the way I used to joke about sheep, Actually, if you're ever looking for a different job, we're in need of sheep shears, and sheep need to be sheared, and

they actually can help global warming. Like I didn't know any of this, so I didn't know. Oh yeah, it's fascinating. Everyone says cheaper stupid. They're not. They're some of this. They're so smart. The reason their eyes are slanted is so they can see behind them, and you always think like, oh, they have such little funny eyes. You know, they're just stupid, little cheep. I'm learning so much that I want to know and that I don't want to know because now

I have to change the way I live. No, I think reading is I don't read that book before I go to sleep, I read a novel be well. I think that's probably so true for so many things right that we don't even know about in our environment that are actually helping us live and breathe clean air and helping put oxygen out into the atmosphere. Like we are constantly surrounded by these things, but until you read a

book like that, you don't even know. You're like, oh, wait, this is a contribution to the environment that we could be using in a much more mindful way, exactly, Like I never knew that a lot of clothes are made with plastics in them, all the stretchy stuff. It's all all of it, and and by the way, and and and you know, and they're like, well, but we send all the used closed Africa after saying we don't wear them,

we don't want them. Stop sending like it is anyway, I digress, But literally, I do think that reading is important to educate, but it's also really important to disappear and and go into someone else's world and think outside of yourself. Yeah, there is no comfort like a good book. What are some of you? If you can think of one or some of your favorite books to recommend to listeners. Did you ever read that book Sarcy by Madeline Miller. No, that's a beautiful book and it's like fantasy. I mean

it's about Greek mythology, but it's so beautifully written. I mean I had to read that. That was one of those books where you read, you read a paragraph and you put the you put the book down and just think about how she wrote that. It's so impressive. But yeah, that was one of my favorite books. Did you ever read The Red Tent? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, that was a

great book. Interesting about that book, that book. I was in Ireland doing a film and it was right after nine eleven and someone had told me to read that book and I started it and they were so men. You know, it's it's biblical, right, So there were so many names, and I was like, I always give a book fifty pages before I sam out. I remember turning page fifty. I was getting frustrated with it because there were so many characters and I couldn't keep track of everyone.

Page fifty turned it. I never put the book down. I couldn't wait till they were like, we have ten minutes for lighting. I'd run back to my dressing room and read the book. Those are the kind of things there's there's another book. Oh, this is why I write things down in my notes on my phone. That's no, no offense. Really, that's why everybody writes things down in their notes. You're not the only You're not the only one. Oh. In that realm of the red Tent, there's a book

called Pope Joan. Did you ever read it? Know? What's that? Oh? My god? So Pope Joan. Let me just write that down in my notes section one second? Yeah, right, session. Hope Joan is about a lot of people feel that

it's complete falsehood. You just go into the story, but it's basically the first pope that was elected that was actually a woman, and there's there's historical evidence showing, for example, did you know that when someone is elected pope now because of Pope Joan, when they found out she was a woman and they killed her she was masquerading as a man. In thirteen whatever it was, they have basically a ball throne where the pope elected pope has to sit on it and someone goes under his robes to

make sure he has pesticals. Oh wonderful. And that's because of Pope Joan. It is such a fascinating read. And some producers sent it to me when I was on the Good Wife and said, we want to make this into a movie and we think you'd be a great pope. Joan. It was like, you know, eight hundred pages and I want, guys, I'm on set fourteen hours a day. You're insane if you think I'm going to read this in two weeks to get be my answer. So, and they said, take all the time you want. I read it in a week.

I could not put the book down. It was absolutely fascinating. I love those kind of because you also learned about history and you learn about you know. Anyway, so you didn't end up doing the project? Oh so, so I said, yes. I was like, I'm in this is I was just unbelievable character. And they couldn't get a greenlit anywhere. Oh so, you know, I mean, I've been attached to so many of those. But you know, you keep throwing it at the wall and whatever sticks sticks. You know, you gotta

make lemonade exactly. But anyway, it's a great read. I just read The Latecomer. I'm going down a gene Hans Corlett's sort of rabbit hole because I've always loved her writing. And then she had read my memoir and actually asked she has all these book events, and she said my name.

I knew who she was because I had read her books before, but she just came out with a book called The Latecomer and that was so much fun because while it's very New York story, but it's about these trips, splets who came into existence from a petri dish because their mother couldn't get pregnant. And it is a fascinating, fabulous fund read. And I love triplets. I like anything where there's twins, triplets or sisters. Those are my three. Have you ever seen that show The Split? Do you

have you? Ever? My god? I love it? Oh my god, it's my favorite. I haven't I haven't a show for you. Okay, So here's what happened last night. I drove up up I'm up state and for the first time by myself, no dog, no kid, no husband. Like I walked into my house. There's no food. I'm like, okay, I'll figure it out. There's some eggs, Like what can I do? Like you, Chelsea, I'm one technically challenged, like the Pact that I'm on this zoom with you and no one's

gonna help me. It is talking. And I've never actually turned my television on up here because my kid or my husband are always here and they know how to do it. And it's got like, I'm like, what is eight m one? So I don't want to be I just wait till they're here. So I had just finished watching Catastrophe. Have you seen cats Awesome? I love it and I love her, Sharon Horgan. I'm obsessed with the actress the way I was with Nicola Walker in The Split.

She's genius. Oh that show is awesome, awesome, just like In fact, when I watched that show, I emailed Robert Michelle King, who created The Good Wife, and I was like, um, do you think maybe this was born out of the Good Wife? Because there's way too many similarities, right, She's having the affair with the guy at the law firm, blah blah blah. And they said, oh, we heard about it. And the Washington Post said, if you're missing The Good Wife,

watched The Split, So anyway, this show. So after I watched Catastrophe, I heard that Sharon Horrigan, I'm sure I'm saying her name wrong, but she writes, directs, produces, and acts, and I I just love women who do that. I don't know if I could ever. I can produce an act, but I don't know if I could do any of the other things. She has a new show called Bad Sisters, and I immediately thought of you, Chelsea, you have to watch Oh my god, I saw it, you know what.

I saw it, and I was about to no, no, I was about to watch it, and then my assistant said, oh, you should watch Severance, I think because they're both on Apple, right, and yeah, Severance is on Apple with Adam Scott, who I love. I love that show. Oh yeah, you watched that show Severance? Oh yeah, I mean I have to say at one point, like by episode three, I was

getting so angst. I was watching with my husband. I said, you know, by the next episode, if it doesn't get a little bit lighter, I don't know if I can handle it anymore. Because we watched it together before we go to bed. And then in Walks, I mean, I loved all of it, but but the characters were so sad and brutal and also frightening. Patricia Arquette is a genius,

but she scared the ship out of me. And then in walks Christopher walking with John Turo and I like, I was like, oh my god, it's the sweetest thing I've ever seen. I know, Christopher walking. Any time he walked into a room, You're like, first all, Patricia Arquette is the fucking best. She's Oh my god. Every time when you see her, you're like you feel dehydrated from missing her. You're like, hey, I need her and more ship. She is one of those actresses I've always admired because

she is unapologetically that character. Yeah you know what I mean, Like she just goes in there and you're like, wait, wait seriously this is and you believe everything, Like she's crazy. Sever Yeah, well she's crazy, Okay, I definitely. Well, I love Sharon Horrigan. I'm gonna watch Bad Sisters. We should have Sharon on the podcast. Also, she's I think she is truly talented on every level. She's funny. She's funny.

Catastrophe was so good. I started watching Severance. I'm not to the end because I also found it slightly depressing. I'm just like, this is hark. I'm not good at like television analysis. Like when there's a bigger kind of metaphorical thing going on. It's not always easy for me to identify, you know, like even in in a Bear Did you watch that, Julie, I've watched three episodes of it. That's a great show, and that I watched it, and then I read a review of it and in the

New York Times. I'm sure because those reviews are like I might as well be talking to somebody who speaks French, and I'm like, wait what. I was like, toxic masculinity, Okay, I could see that, but then they listed like all of the things that the show was about, and I'm like, wow, I'm a real dummy, Like I didn't pick up on that. I'm late to the game on a lot of things. But I just finished watching the entire four seasons of Ozark, which was brilliant. Laura Linney is another she just deserved

another level. But in the beginning, I was like, I don't understand money washing. Wait what? And I'm a fairly educated person with you know, a medium sized brain. But literally, as the show went, I went, thank you for not you didn't talk down to your audience. I love a show that allows me to learn what they're talking about through time, because writing a pilot is really difficult, and any network you want to set up everything within that

first show to keep the audience coming back. But it's like, no, if you really believe in the work you're doing, then let the audience learn with you. Yeah. So, like by the end, I felt like, oh, I understand Cartel and wondering it. But the one show I couldn't keep watching because I just they talked too fast and I was on it was Billions because I would look over to my husband and be like, I don't understand. What does that mean? What are they trading in? I don't get

I didn't. It was a lingo that went over my head. Well, Billions is like red Bull, Like that's tell red Bull television, you know what I mean. Billions is like two. It's high octane, and that's like it's it's like out of pace where there's Yeah, I know exactly what you mean by that. Ozark is one of the best shows ever. That and Jason Bateman is so boad and so is good Julia Garner. She's a badass. Yeah, it was fantastic. So it's been fun catching up. I know it was

on like years ago. But well, I think a lot of people are gonna be surprised to hear that you are not money washing and upstate New York, Julianna, because that's what this podcast were supposed to be about. I'm watching other things all the time, but not money. Okay. Well, now that we've done our television round up, television book, book, and television review and entertainment corner, Yeah, we're gonna have this is gonna be a regular thing the next time

we have to call on Julianna. Okay, Katherine some Well, I'm gonna make us take a little bit of a break and then we'll be back with some colors and we're back. What do we got going on today, Katherine? So many things. Well, our first question is a sister question, or rather a sister in law question. This comes from less dear Chelsea. I'm not sure what to do about

my sister in law. The problem is is that she's been purchasing things that I own to an extent that is extremely uncomfortable for me, and I feel like I'm being stripped of my identity when I'm with her. I don't even like to wear things that are special to me around her in fear that she'll ask where it's from and buy it multiple pairs of shoes, jewelry, coats, sweaters, pants, art, et cetera. It may be partially my fault because sometimes I share links with her when she asks where did

you get those pants? I'm getting increasingly upset when I see her wearing things I own, and she dresses almost exactly like me. Now I'm extremely close with my brother, her husband, and I'm afraid confronting her will cause us to get in a fight. Please help less. Oh boy, I have so many You go first, Julianna, I have so many. Well, my first reaction when hearing that is imitation is the best form of flattery. And agreed, Chelsea.

You know I think she's your agent. But my best friend Blair Cohen from college is truly one of the most fashion forward people I've ever met. Like, everything she puts on, I'm like, oh my god, just got style up the Jesus You're just like, what the fun is? You're like, are those shoes? Are they milk cartons? And somehow she's more just stylish person and and I am not ashamed to tell you that I now have half

her wardrobe, and she takes it as a compliment. She really does like she She was in town a couple of weeks ago and I was wearing these niarly low tan pants that I had seen on her first and she was like, oh girl, you look great. Like I understand what family. It might be different because you suddenly you're both showing up. But if you could look at it from a different angle, which is that you're inspiring

somebody your taste. I mean, nothing makes me happier than when someone comes into my home and says, oh my god, where did you get that lamp? I have to have it, And I think, oh, I did good. Yeah, I look at it as a compliment unless it's that single white female thing where she is trying to become you. I wouldn't look at it as anything except she likes your style and take it as a compliment. That's my feeling.

But yeah, what do you think, Katherine. I think she should start sending her affiliate links so she can make a little money on the side when she clicks commission. I mean, you could do the old oh this old thing and tell her you don't remember, or tell her it's vintage. I mean, I do agree it's flattering. Yeah, I think it's flattering, and I think you need to adjust your mindset and perspective on it. It's a compliment and you should take it as such, like she's never

going to steal your identity. If it's really crossing a line and she's acting like you and making you, then that's a separate issue and then that would call for attention. But somebody who's just dressing like you is a huge compliment. And again, Julianna, like when people come over to my house and say, oh my god this or that, I'm like, oh yeah, right on, nailed it. You know, I always take it as a compliment. I take it as a compliment when people show up at my shows wearing jumpsuits

like I wear. I started in jumpsuits because of Chelsea I did, and then I did her first. The first podcast I did with her, I was wearing a jump the homage to Chelsea. It was a compliment. Thank you, That's sweet. I would feel complimented if someone showed up wearing something. You know, it's it's about your identity, So

I say, stay who you are. If you start feeling like she's talking like you or is different when there's trying to She's married to your brothers, so it's not like she's going to try and date the same person as you or you know. I just whenever someone was like, oh what do you eat? Because I love the way you look at what, I'm like, Oh, let me, I'm so happy to share. And also remember this, I'm a child of the eighties, like that was when I was

could afford fashion or or cared. We all were the same thing, right when you're in middle school in high school, you're you're wearing this, you wear with each other wears because you're around each other and you like each other, you know, and you want to be cool. So you're probably really cool to her, and she wants to be like you because a your brother is married to her, and she probably knows you're really close with your brother and maybe you know what I mean. Like it could

be so many different psychological things. If it gets creepy, you can say, hey, babe, I love that you love what I'm wearing, and I love that you buy the stuff, but can we just talk? Are you okay? Because I feel like you're a little bit coming into my orbit too much. And you can say it sweetly if you're feeling out. Yeah, yeah, and you could even suggest, say you're wearing something in yellow and she loves it, be like, you know, what would look great on you is the

blue one? You know that's not exactly the same. That's perfect. You're absolutely right. Yeah, these aren't big problems. You just have to be a little bit more gracious about it and just remember that that's cool. That's a compliment, period, it's a compliment. Turn it around. Well. Our next question comes from Chandra Dear Chelsea. I'm a twenty four year old transman and recently started living alone in my two bedroom apartment. My partner of three and a half years

and did things with me back in March. This was an incredibly difficult adjustment, as I had just moved to Pennsylvania and left my family to be with them to find work out there. I ended up working under my partner in our grooming salon. Since then, I've moved up to co managing the salon with my now ex partner. Less than two months after they broke up with me,

they started dating our friend slash coworker. I will admit this is hard to witness and I had a lot of friends tell me to get up and leave my job to get away from that hurt. It's been an overwhelming loss, but my X and I still maintain a distanced but respectful friendship. Here's the deal. I'm now reaching a pivotal moment in my life, and I'm stuck, frozen

in fear of which choice to make. I've always dreamt of living in Germany, but I'm too afraid to make that leap, and my German needs a lot of work. I've also had friends offered to have me stay with them in Chicago until I figure things out. I don't know what I want to do or where to go, but I do know I want to start learning to listen and trust myself to make decisions. Any advice, Chandra, Hey, Chandra, Hi, Chandra, how are you? This is Julianna, And of course you've

spoken to Catherine already. Hi were here to help you here? Thank you? I need it right now at this point. Okay, So how long have you been working together with your ex? We broke up in March, and so I've been working with all of them together for the last six months. And I've been working with my ex for the last three years and you obviously feel like you need to change, right, Yeah, I mean every if I I've given it a lot of thought. And I'm twenty four and basically every major

life choice I've made has been around a partner. I left Michigan and went to college for somebody who was going to the same university. That didn't end out well. And then I moved to Pennsylvania for my ex and that didn't work out well. I mean, I really thought this last relationship was gonna be it for me. I mean I thought I met my life partner because I've never been in such a supportive, non judgmental relationship. I mean,

we were open the whole time. And it was because, like my partner believed that I should experiment with what men and because my partner, my ex is female but non binary. So it's still transfer relationship. What was the last word you use? Trans for trans relationship? For trans? Okay? Good? I need. I need to make sure I'm up on all the lingo. Okay, it doesn't matter, But what sex is this person that she's having a relationship with. It is the same sex or is in another non binary

or male? They took a huge leap. He's as head conservative male. Wow. Well, first and foremost, I want to say that you're twenty four years old, and I am here to tell you that you are probably going to fall in love and have your heartbroken multiple times from now on, and that is part of the way of the world. And the sooner that you can get on that train and accepting of it, the more emboldened and

empowered you're going to feel. Because relationships do not find you, the way you handle relationships defines you, you know what I mean. So like you saying I thought I'm at the love of my life. Of course, we all want to meet that person and we all want to feel that way, but the chances of that happening at your age are just not you know what I mean. To

the time, your age is not on your side. You're here to explore and to learn and to have multitude, a multitude of experiences, not just one, not just two, not just three. You want to be a full person, right, So I really don't want you to even think about I know it's easier said than done, but don't think about something as it has to be forever. There is no forever. All of that is hogwash anyway, Just think

about you right now. Just think about what is going to make you the most productive, happiest version of yourself. And when you think of that, what comes up. That's the hard part is I have to basically retrain my brain to make me the person I'm taking care of instead of a partner or a family member. Do you feel you're worth is more valuable to you when you're taking care of someone else other than yourself. I've always felt like I'm valuable when I'm useful, and yet you're

not useful to yourself. Not at this moment in time. No. I got back into therapy, so a lot of this past six months have been like basically creating who I am from the ground up and trying to figure out what I like. And I bought a bike and trying to find out hobbies so I can be around other people that aren't connected to my X and stuff like that. So here's what I want to say to you right now,

You're exactly where you're supposed to be. You're at the age where you're exactly where you're supposed to be, but you don't realize that the world is your oyster. Because when you're twenty four, you don't see that. When you said something that really struck me in your letter was that you want to go to Germany. I can tell you as someone who went there once for twenty four hours and fell so in love with Berlin, and I

really like I can say three words in German. You go to the country to learn the language, you don't learn the language and then go to the country. My biggest thing when I hear what you're saying is you've already said I went to college for someone, then I moved here for someone. Where are you going to move for you? And when you say I would love to go to Germany and I would love to speak German, you're opening up a whole new world, like the whole point.

And by the way, when you get there, because you will after Chelsea and I are done with you, You're totally going to Germany. Um I can say this. There's I bet you dollars to donuts. You're going to write into Chelsea and say, had I not gone through those experiences where I was in so much pain, I would not have found the path I'm on now. And that's just life, right. So instead of looking at it like an obstacle, look at it like a challenge and an

opportunity and an opportunity, right. My challenge to myself is, can I take care of me first? When you know it's putting the mask on the plane, the parent has to put it on before they do the kid otherwise they die, right, and then they're no good to the kid. So you have to put your own oxygen mask on before you can be in a relationship with anybody, because you'll lose yourself again. Yeah, I've been there. I've lost myself and then spend years going why did I do that?

And therapy and blah blah blah. It's all good, and I'm so grateful I had that terrible relationship because I definitely wouldn't have what I have now, and I wouldn't know who I am now. Don't live your life regretting. Live your life well of an open road, because you never know what's behind each door or a left, instead of all right, where is that going to take you?

You know? I remember a friend of mine was we were both moving back from l A to New York, and he was really wanting to drive across country because he wanted his car in New York. He didn't have a lot of money, and he was nervous about it because he's gay, and he was like, I don't know the Midwest. You know, when you're from either l A or New York, you think like nobody's going to accept you anywhere else in the world. And he was nervous about it. And I said, you'll never know unless you

do it. M hm. And to this day he says it was the best experience of his life and it gave him so like he was more confident when he came home. When he came back to New York, he was like, I did that. I did that by myself, and then he could conquer the world. And he did. And he's been married now twelve years to an amazing guy, and he has an incredible career. Like you can create your own path, don't wait for someone else to create

your path. And by the way, if you can get the hell out of that job, because I don't think it's healthy to have to walk into that every day. Why why would you want to put yourself through that. It's the best job I've ever had. And I'm having a crappy day, I can grab a dog and feel better.

And the departments are separate enough and we're respectable enough, and I can find fifty million reasons to talk myself out of it, you know, but it hurts you, right, that's when I heard in the letter that you're working with them hurts you. It does, because it's at this point they have just completely shut off the emotional understanding of the situation and just seeing it from like a logical choice. I guess I'm a very emotional, hopeless, romantic person.

They're very clinical and logical person, so it's easy for them to just move on or they're just cut off from their feelings. Oh, they're trust me. That's the hardest part is knowing that they need way more help than I do, because at least I know my feelings. Yes, but here's something that I can just tell by looking at you. Your aura and your energy is a little defeated,

and you've been a little depleted by this experience. While it was honorable to continue to do the job and show up and kind of face that, that would be hard for a lot of people and be a deal breaker. I know I would probably be like out the door and be like, there's no way I'm going to face my ax with their new person every day. Why would I put myself through that hell, even if they're are physical, like you're not on top of each other all day,

you're away departments whatever. I don't know. I've never worked inside of building, so I don't know even know what I'm talking about. But what I do want to say is you are a little bit your energy sad, and that is a result of putting yourself in a situation that is going to make you sad. And it is up to you to get yourself out of that situation. The idea that you're even thinking about Germany is the only answer you need. Go You need to go to Germany.

Don't worry about learning the language. Exactly what Juliana said. You go there to learn the language. Do you know how empowering and the build of self esteem that you will acquire by actually being immersed in a culture that is foreign to you, by learning the language, learning the idiosyncrasies of a completely different culture and vibe and the energy that comes with Germany. People love Berlin, people love

what's the other city that everybody loves in Germany? Munich? Yeah, people love Munich too, I mean, and West Germany I've visited. I mean, it's beautiful, all all of it is beautiful, and you have people that are very open, incredible energy there.

You need different energy around you. Well, I mean that's that was the first time I ever felt connected to myself was when I was nineteen and I lived in Berlin for four months straight, Like I literally did something on my own, pushed myself to that and did a program that let me live there on my own for the first time in my entire life. And I just there's always been something keeping me like going back to

it as an option. And I don't know, I think I just staying here is just playing it safe, and I'm really tired of doing the same thing that makes me feel like ship but it's comfortable, it's actually more damaging. It's not playing it safe staying there. Yeah. Yeah, I have to say, just hearing you and Chasea, You're right, You're you're very deflated, You're very there's a sadness, right,

but there's such a sweetness. And so when I hear you say, first of all, when you say this is the best job I've ever had, your twenty four how many jobs have you had? Um? Four or five? Please? You don't know the best job even you'll ever have, Like you're you're fine. So don't live to work, work to live? Right? Did I say that? Right? Yes, you don't. You don't want to be a slave to something that

isn't bringing you joy. And and also it's it's like you're inside this box when even when the way you described the building, like you're inside this box and they and they're there. That's energy. Whether you communicate with them or not, they're there, and so you're feeling it. And just from someone who who once had a horrible breakup with someone I had only really dated, like I don't know, six months, but I was crazy about him and he

broke it off with me. I would go everywhere I knew he'd be just see and what I was torturing myself. It was ridiculous, but of course I was. I just wanted him. I wanted to see him. I wanted to be in his around him, even though he was a fucking asshole, you know. And I look back now and I'm like, oh my god, what was I thinking? Go find someone else, Go go let yourself be loved by other people. Love other people. Berlin is the perfect place

for it. And you already are familiar with it. It's not like you're gonna need a map, you just need a plane ticket and and the inspiration to go. Yeah, yeah, a good prush. I don't regret you. Do you know you're going to Germany? Or do you have a place? Do you have a place to live or do you have somebody to live with? What's the situation on that front? The family that I lived with, they said that I'm welcoming back any time. If I'm there again, I might

actually have a couple of classmates in Berlin. Basically everybody that I know that's gone to Berlin has gotten drunk on Berlin and needed to go back. Yeah. Sorry, Can I just say this one thing, because I don't want it to feel like like if you say I'm moving to Berlin that that almost sounds too much, like it's too much of a challenge. That can be really disorienting, right, But if you say, why don't you just go for months?

Go for months and and take your family, that family up on it, you know, and don't overstay your welcome, but feel it out, seek it out, look at it as a journey, and then if you love it, you stay, and if you don't, you find something else. But you don't have a mortgage, do you. No, you don't have children, and you don't have a partner. No. Go, you're twenty four. If you didn't go in ten years, you would sit

there and go, I fuck. I wish I had gone when I was twenty four, when I was thinking about it. So where you're You called us for a reason. This is the universe telling you you need to go. You need to go explore the world, and you are going to forget about all of this in a very short period of time. I promise you that if you change your surroundings, you will change. This is the time in your life for big moves, make big moves. You're not going to have the energy to do it when you're

fifty four. You're twenty four. Yeah, I mean, that's my biggest fear is waking up a little too late realizing I could have done this, I could have done that. And it's cool. It's also cool because you're gonna look back and be like, you know what I did When I was twenty four, I went to Berlin. I was in a situation that was pathetic, and then I had to get myself out of You have to extract yourself

from this situation. You have nothing keeping you here, so go have a thirst for the world, and I guarantee you're going to find exactly what you're looking for. And there are dogs in Berlin as well. Yeah, they're really nice with their dogs. They have laws where like if it's a good dog and it passes a class, it can be in public off leash, and you can be in a cafe and some dog will go up into your lap. I'm telling you, well, you supposed to be there taking care of those dogs. Well it's an hour

or ever. I guess at this point you have nothing to lose, right, you have nothing to lose. No, I mean I did just give myself a year here. I have to move out and real the lease with a roommates, so I'm have a year here, but I am definitely gonna be planning a trip to Germany at least to go. Okay, good, okay, we'll do that and plan and plan on going for a longer than a trip, you know what I mean. Do a month or do three months or whatever sounds

good to you, but start planning it. You have that on your side too, and then you have the anticipation of going and the excitement of going, and you're gonna have something to look forward to. I really yeah. And you can outreach, you know, on social media to people that are in Berlin and start cultivating friendships. It's a good preparation for you. But I want you to get that ticket and then send us a picture of it. Please, you got it? Yeah, you'll get your little receipt, okay.

And also don't be fooled that you need to like finish out a lease, find somebody to take over your lease. If you're ready to go in two months or a month or a week, you will figure it out, okay. Yeah, okay, So Chandra, what's the plan. I'm gonna hang out and then probably look at plane tickets to Germany and plan for next summer because that gives me enough time to plan and get my passport updated because it still says female, and send you guys a picture of the ticket and

just walk around in Berlin for a while. Yeah. Absolutely, absolutely, you won't regret it. Yeah, I deserve some fun, I think. Yeah, we're sending you Chandra, and have your own little mantra. Every morning just wake up and say today I'm gonna take care of me. I think it helps to have a mantra about you come first. It's it was always really hard for me, but and then I realized that no one wants to be around a martyr, and if I don't take care of me, then no one else

actually gets taken care of. So I have a nentrepree to start meditating on that. Yeah, I started to like basically tell myself that I am my partner. Like everything that I missed out on my last relationship, I'm guaranteeing that I'm making it happen for myself. When you're a man now, so you should be putting yourself first, the norm, dude, an adjustment that must be. It's like, well, you know what, I actually am right, and I'm going to tell you why. Yeah.

Actually I need you guys more around when I get questions from my coworkers because I really just backed down all the time. Yeah yeah, well, just start with your mantra. Don't forget it. It's really important. That stuff is really important. It's very subliminal and it seeks seeps into your brain and it permeates throughout your whole life. So you have to value yourself more. Okay, the next time I see you. I want to see a big, bright, shining light coming

out of your head because you've made such great decisions. Okay, you got it. Okay, awesome, good luck, Thanks Chandra. I bye. Oh what a sweetie pie. I love him. Oh yeah, I'm so glad I'm not twenty four. I feel I I could feel his angst. I know, but it's like twenty four. Oh my god, I don't even remember what I mean. I knew I would end up like this because everyone's like, oh, youth is wasted on the young,

and yet it's so true. It's so true, and I hate I used to hate hearing that when I was younger, and now I'm like, god, I just I didn't know, because didn't you know what the thing is is the suffering you put yourself through, so much suffering that is so unnecessary. We care so much about other people and their perception of us and all of that, and we care. We're just it's like the struggle is so unnecessary, the pain unnecessary, but we don't know that. We have to

learn it. Everyone has to learn it at their own time. And for me, it was always like the idea of being alone was just horrific and so I under I could feel in him, like I knew that he was going to that job every day because he wanted to be at least somewhere in their orbit. I just could see that, and it's so toxic. You can feel it through a cement wall, like it's you know, even though we're in separate floors whatever. No, they're in the building. Yeah,

there's nothing good that's going to come from that. Yeah. Well, our next question is from Heidi. Heidi runs an animal rescue, I believe, but also has another job. She says, Dear Chelsea, I've had to ushi and my whole adult life started antidepressants at one. I suspect I've actually suffered from it since childhood but was undiagnosed. I'm tired of the way I always feel and the lows that make me want

to hide away in my home. I started fostering dogs to help me get through the stress of the pandemic. As I was an icy you nurse. I also changed my career and left bedside nursing to see if that would help my depression. My anxiety improved, but it's a constant struggle every day. I recently started online therapy, but my brain then told me this is self indulgent. I'm single without children, but I do have several dogs and a cat. My brain says, what's the point. You don't matter.

Your struggles only affect you, so get over them and shut up. Other people have real problems and have people who depend on them. Any advice to help me get back into therapy. It's hard to fight your own self. Thanks, Heidi. Hi. Hi. We have Juliana here today as our special guests because she gives great advice. And you know Catherine, Oh, hi, yes, how are you okay? So talk to us? So you are did you say you're on medication or you're not on medication? Yeah? I've been on medication off and on

since my mid twenties. I'm thirty four now. I always have to think about it. We all do. Don't worry. And and these are you're talking about antidepressants? Yeah, yeah, I've been on lexeprol. My increased my dose recently. I know a lot of people on lexaprome. It helped my mom tremendously. And she's a she would never take a drug in her life, and she's like, oh my god, why didn't I know? Yeah? Changed your life? Yeah, And

you're on it now or you're not on it now. No, I am on it, And yeah, it was a life changer for me. I've always had I think a little bit of depression. It runs in my family. My mom was diagnosed when actually I was the first one to be diagnosed, and then by me kind of working on it, my mom decided to see a therapist and psychiatrist and she also was diagnosed and she actually has a little bit of social anxiety disorder, so she's on some different medications.

And then my sister has also started going to therapy and she was diagnosed with depression in her early twenties as well. So I don't know if it's familial or we're just sad people, or I don't know. Well, it's pretty it's pretty genetic, by the way. Well, first of all, it's pretty common. I mean, I think one of the three people are on antidepressants, just like one of three people have herpes. But don't don't connect that. That's that's

a personal story. But everyone's onto something, So don't even judge yourself about that, you know what I mean? My question is why do you go on and off of it? Well, insurance because recently is when you've been able to get antidepressant sent to you from home. But I was a travel nurse for a while, and when you're not working for the company or the hospital, you get kicked off the insurance. And you know, you're in your twenties and you're young, and you're I at least didn't take my

health too seriously in my twenties. It wasn't until I kind of settled like one and I realized, Okay, we gotta stop messing around. And that's when I started seeing a regular doctor and started taking care of myself. And but yeah, there's really no reason. It was just I think a little bit of shame, and I felt like, let's try to fix this just with courage, with working out, with this and that. But then I slowly came to realize, like, no,

it's just chemistry. It's brain chemistry. It's nothing to be ashamed of, which all makes sense up here. But it's hard for me to do the therapy part of it because so many things I've read have said like the medicine will help, but the therapy helps you realize how it can be exacerbated and at whatnot. And so I recently went through kind of a bad spell of my depression and it was really bad. It was like I didn't want to get out of bed, I didn't want

to clean myself. And I listen to a lot of podcasts and everyone's always talking about like better help and all those online ones, and I so I started it, and then after a couple of sessions, I just I felt like, who are you to complain about anything? And again, I probably the chemistry stuff, but it's hard for me to justify the expense and and the talking about myself. And that's the biggest issue I have. I don't like to talk about myself. Right, Okay, Well, first of all,

you have to stop judging yourself. That's your judging yourself. Saying therapy is self indulgent is a judgment. It's not self indulgent, it's self help. You're helping yourself. You know. Um, I had a friend who always be like, it's navel gazing, it's naval amazing. And then guess who ended up in therapy for three years because she needed to be nagel gazing. So we always have these two voices in our head.

We have the real us and then we have our shadow, right, who kind of says, oh, don't eat that, or you're stupid, or you're not funny, or did you do that right or did it da. That's poking us on the shoulder. And as soon as you give that little person power, then that person has power over the real us. And that's not the way it goes. It goes the other way around. We have power over that voice of when to say, shut up, voice, you don't know what you're

talking about. You want to be a healthy person, You want to feel good about yourself, and the best way to do that is, you know, when you have clinical depression is a to be taking medication and be to supplement that medication with information about your condition and why you feel this way, and how to actually articulately grasp what is happening with you, so you have a language, you know what I mean, with yourself that you can say, oh, I'm feeling like this right now because of what happened

to me over here, or this brings up, this triggers me because of something that happened when I was eight that I'm not even cognizant of, but my body might. Remember. There's so many interfaces that are going on in our bodies between our brain and our stomach and our heart we all have. We have brains throughout our body that

are communicating with each other. And if you don't have the toolkit to understand that messaging, then you're basically just jumping into the water with no raft, you know what I mean. You want to set yourself up for success, and therapy leads to success, and if you didn't have the right person, then maybe you need to find another

person and try better help again with another person. If you can afford to go to a therapist on your own, whatever you can afford in your lifestyle, but you have to make the effort to get yourself to a healthy spot. You have to. I'm always so amazed when someone says I don't deserve to go to therapy to too self indulgent, especially someone I mean, anyone who's suffering through any kind of depression. If you had a broken leg, you go to the doctor, right, It's like it's that simple, And

as human beings were all slightly broken inside. Without therapy, I definitely would not be where I am today, which is a very calm place. And I thought I remember being judgmental and thinking, oh my god, this is so self indulgent. Really, Julianna, you had a shitty relationship now twice a week. You know, this is ridiculous, but you know what, I had to do it, and it was hard, and it's hard to go in there. It is hard

to go in there and figure it out. But just what Chelsea said is like, once you have the tools, when you have that feeling coming on, you know exactly what tool to take out of the box to stop the feeling. And it's not actually just about you. It's about the people around you too. Right when you are fully in a good mental, healthy state, you're paying it forward to other people that you let out an energy that other people can take into. I always thought, you know,

it was just about me. It's not. It's about everyone you cut And I think you need to think of it more because you're in r N. You take care of people, right, like, that's that's what you do. Yeah, and yet and yet you're having a hard time taking care of yourself because you feel it self indulgent. If you look at it more in just Layman's terms rather than you know, sort of like trying to understand the pseudo psycho whatever. If you just look at it. Like.

One thing I always say to myself is why would you treat any of your friends, or your child or your husband this way? Why are you treating yourself this way? It's a mantra I play all the time because I'm so hard on myself, and it has become so normal now for me that I almost don't do it anymore to myself. But it took therapy, it took tools, it took work, and now I'm a lot nicer to be around, to be honest, But I know my kid and my husband appreciate it because I'm not. I'm not always taking

on the world and like, I can't do that. Guy's so let's order in. It's that easy. Yeah, no, that's a good perspective. I didn't think about your right. I mean, sorry, Hi, it's good to cry. Let's let it out for me. The reason I felt in my mind why it self indulgent is because I don't have a partner. I don't have a family. I have my pets and everything. But but you know, I do have my sister, my nieces,

my family. I see them often. I have friends, and you're right, my behavior affects them and my moods and I think I almost the first two sessions of therapy were so hie opening that I almost think that I got scared. You know, you did, of course, and that's gonna be good for me to remember. But you know, even though I don't have people in my home, I still people in my life. So thank you where you needed yourself in your home? Right, Yeah, Ultimately it's yourself

that you owe it to. Yeah, sorry, your tears are welcome here. And also you're talking about being a nurse. You're you're taking care of others. It's just what Juliano is saying about the mask you know that you put on a plane. You have to take care of yourself. In order to be a value to other people, you have to be a value to yourself. And that is the most important part of growth and and and learning about yourself is to know to have to take care

of yourself and get yourself in a healthy place. And there's just there's nothing that is ever going to top that. Can I ask you something, Heidi, was that the first time you'd ever done therapy. No, I had a medical malpractice with my eye revision, and it left me with a lot of anger, and so I had therapy for that three or four years ago, but then I purchased a home, and as a single person, I didn't have the economics to continue, or I felt like I didn't,

And then COVID happened and I worked. I see you. I don't remember if I put in the letter, and that was very difficult, very isolating. So it's almost been like a slow build since my previous therapy, and you know, with a lot of accelerants, and then I think it's weird. But like, since my life has calmed down, you know, I left bedside, which has helped a lot with my anxiety, and I'm doing things I enjoy. I'm fostering animals. I'm

trying to take better care of myself. It's almost like there was this one part of everything that was lacking that I guess I had been ignoring for so long that it's almost like it shot. I don't know if I can describe, like it's a yelling in my brain, like a shout in my brain that's like you're skipping something,

like you know what you need to do. And and so that's why I finally tried to face it again, because I did that therapy and it helped me get over the anger of you know, all the medical stuff, but there's issues from childhood and just anxiety, and there's probably issues you don't even know yet I found out. So it's a long road. Nothing's going to fix it

in two sessions, you know, and it's hard. But yeah, like I said, I think I scared myself because I you know, my grandmother recently passed, and I think that was a precipitous. She was a big cheerleader for me and she had dimension Alzheimer's. Sorry I'm telling you guys my whole life story, but she had dementia during all of COVID and we couldn't visit her because you know,

the lockdown and everything. And she was always a cheerleader of mine, and I think losing her presence my brain was just like now you have to be your own cheerleader. And I don't know if I know how to do that. It sounds so silly. Well, here's an exercise for you. Your your grandmother is still with you. Remember that her energy. She can never be you know, eradicated or erased or anything. Your grandmother's around you, and she doesn't have dementia anymore

because she's not here anymore, So she's your cheerleader. And when you're talking to yourself, you can pretend you're your grandmother, telling yourself that you deserve to go to therapy, that you deserve to figure out all of your ship. As difficult as it, maybe it is the most rewarding endeavor that you'll ever encounter in life, is to have the gift of self awareness and self understanding and self love. Thank you, You are worthy. Yes, yes, And I want

you to remember that. Think about your grandmother every single day because she would want this for you, and you can do it in her honor. Yeah, you have such a beautiful energy to you, like you are so just the fact that you're asking these questions you know, and that, and you're so gentle. You have this beautiful speaking voice, the way you're speaking, and I feel like you're already halfway there because you're obviously asking those questions. Your brain

is way to those questions. Right. So we're so hard on ourselves. Just give yourself a great and and and and think like if your sister were going through this, what would you say to her? Yeah? I always think about that, like what would someone tell me to do? Because I know I'm going to be too hard to tell myself to do the right thing or the thing that will help me to do. I want to say, you're your own worst enemy type deal. Yeah, a little bit.

I mean until you get the tools to recognize it, you know, but you're not going to learn that in two sessions of therapy, or quite frankly, maybe a year. Might you might need two years. I mean I've had friends through therapists have been like, it's been ten years, You're good, you can go. What are you gonna do, though, Heidi? What do you what's your next move going to be? Well, we're going on a family trip next week for Labor Day, so I'm hoping to I'm gonna set my appointment for

therapy before I go away. Yes, that's hard. It's something that I know I needed. I think I just I appreciate you kind of giving me the push. It's almost so silly, but act feel like I needed an approval. Yeah, I don't know, No, that makes sense. Sure, and do me another favor. Also, download of meditation app like Headspace

or Chopra or Sam Harris or Sam Harris. Yeah, ten percent happier any of those, and just give yourself five or ten minutes each morning starting out with there's all these little classes and series they all have different ten sessions of something. Find one that speaks to you and that resonates with you. Just by the titles. And it could be happiness, it could be calmness, it could be sleeping better, whatever it is. Just find that and start that practice, because you need to get into a practice

of taking care of yourself. And it doesn't matter whether you're doing it right or not. It just matters that you're giving yourself that amount of time each day to say I care about my day and I care about myself and practice self love and so add that with your therapy session and just start doing that. And I bet you're going to feel the effects of that in no time because you seem very open. Yeah, yeah, I'm trying. You're gonna be okay. Just say that you're already asking

the right questions. It's when you can't ask the right questions that's when I really worry about people. I'm like, oh boy, they're still closed down, but you're already asking the questions right. Thank you so much, a pleasure to meet you. You're wonderful. Enjoy let go. Oh, I'm so excited a little getaway and even told my family, was like, I'm going with you guys, but I need my own time as well. Yeah for you, I'm going to try

that with my family. Thanks, h take care. That's like the opposite when I go away with my family, They're like, you're going to need a time out. Send you to your room. That was so sweet and meaningful. What a meaningful episode. Absolutely love it. I don't think she's alone though. I think so many people after COVID are going through what she's going through too, And so I had a question before or not. I just I talked to so many people who are like I cannot move forward. I

think there was a lot of that going on. She's gorgeous anyway, this fun. Thank you so much for joining us again. Yeah. I told Julianna she doesn't have to ask me the exit question. That's too much pressure. She's already been on the podcast, so we're gonna we're gonna skip that part. Although I didn't have one. Oh okay, well hold on, let's do our break, right. We're gonna take a break and we'll be right back to close

out this episode with Julianna and Catherine. I like the way that I say Julianna in a different way each time. Sometimes it's Juanna, sometimes it's Julianna. Which one do you perfever you're feeling it's just Julianna. I mean, honestly, I love hearing someone say Julianna or Julianna, whatever you want. But it's almost never that I hear that because everyone calls me Jewels. Okay, everyone like and and sometimes Keith will be like me and rules Field like Keith, that's

your bit, like I don't know him. My nickname with an email Jules but but yeah, but either but Julianna is the name doesn't matter for me. Okay, and we're back. Yes, that was a little bit heavy. That was heavy episode today, um, and I really hope it helped a lot of people. So I'm gonna ask a lighter question, Okay, Okay. Even though I told Julianna that she does not have to ask me a question, she is insisting about it. I am because I like, I I really appreciate your advice,

and I like how your brain works, Chelsea. I find it it stimulates my mind. So here's my question. To you. What do you do, Chelsea when you go to see a play or a performance or a stand up whatever it is of a friend of yours and you have to go backstage. But it really was awful. So as someone who has been on stage and then heard all of it, I've heard all of it. I've heard I'm going to tell everyone about this, which means they hated it, and that's their way of or how do you feel?

How do you feel about your perform I want to kill them. I want to shoot them dead. I want to be that supportive friend. And I was once in an acting class where the teacher would let us comment on the scene study we were seeing. But it could only be positive, even if the scene was awful. You could be like, I love how you dressed, and I loved your voice, and that you know, and that's how you give a comment. What do you do, Chelsea when you go back staging? I do that. I just lie.

That is not obviously the time to be honest. And when somebody they can't change the performance, So no, I just think of something positive that I saw, or a character that I loved, or wasn't that girl amazing? Or your performance I loved it. When you do this, I find that being specific with things to deflect from an actual review, people are really drawn to that. They want to hear about their performance as a performer more than

any thing else. And if you can just give him a couple of like kernels of that, that's just the best way to go about it. There's no reason to tell the truth in those situations. No, that's what I thought you'd say, And I'm glad. I'm glad I've heard it from you from your mouth. I've definitely been in that situation. Alright, guys, thank you, you have a great day. I'll be in touch about we love it well. Thank you. So, if you'd like advice from Chelsea, just send us an

email at Dear Chelsea project at gmail dot com. Dear Chelsea is a production of I Heart Radio. Executive produced by Nick Stuff, produced by Catherine Law, and edited and engineered by Brad Dicker.