Hi guys, and welcome back to Life Uncut.
Today.
We are super excited to have a guest on the show that has been an inspiration to both of us for.
Many years and for different reasons.
This woman has been profiled by Forbes, The Huffington Post, The New York Post, The Sydney Morning Herald, the Australian, and in twenty eleven was named Breakout Start.
By The New York Times.
Known originally for her creative skills in jewelry design, she grew her brand to astronomical heights. She had offices in London, Paris, New York, Sydney, LA and Tokyo. But on top of that, she's a brand ambassador, a well known keynote speaker, is currently writing her first book, and has a foundation set
up to support women in business and gender equality. Living between New York and Sydney, some would say she has it all, but my favorite part of this story is the fact that she came from very humble beginnings and from my hometown Port mcquarie. Now that's not inspiration for everyone to go out and do more. I don't know what is. So, Samantha Wills, Welcome to Life Uncut.
Thank you, what an intro, and I was like, I actually.
Felt like I was on a game show.
Like who could this be?
She also liked this space. I'm welcome, thanks for coming in.
Thank you guys so much.
Samantha. I am genuinely excited to have you here today. I have my own jury business and it's something that I'm really passionate about and I have a lot of that to attribute to you, because going back eight years ago, I was reading an article online about this jewelry designer named Samantha Whils who had forged for herself her own career. And I remember sitting there in my office in my job that I freaking hated at the time, thinking I could I could do that, Maybe I could do that.
And I was doing Bondo markets very similarly to how you got started, and I ended up quitting my job a few weeks later and I've had my business ever since.
That gives me actual goosebumps. That means so so much to me, So thank you for sharing that with you or you have achieved. But it's yeah, it's a rare thing. I think a lot of people come to me, oh we've read your story so many times, but not a lot of people say here's how I acted on it. So congratulations to you. It's all you that has done that well.
I was worried that you would think I was a crazy fan girl, but I'm very happy that you were here today.
It's very happy to be here.
She actually is a crazy thing. Yeah, that's all right. I signed this for me before you leave. So let's just start off. You grew up in Port McCray. Did you grow up as a little.
Wrap bag running around barefoot like I did?
I did, indeed tell us about it, so I mean, I don't have to tell you about portmcraw but it's a very small town on the mid North coast. It's very, very idyllic and beautiful, so I think you know, childhood was spent growing up at the beach. Peppermint Park and Fantasy Glades were like a very poor man's Disneyland back.
In the day.
They're all closed down now, but it was just a very time. I say, it's country in New South Wales, but people argue that it's coastal, which I understand, but it's regional New South Wales. You know, going to the city was to me going to Coffs Harbor or Newcastle for art Express in high school or something, and Sydney was the huge, huge city, so it felt very isolated
in a way. But you know, I was in high school in the mid to late nineties, and I do say, I'm like, you know, when I was at school, the Internet wasn't even around, and I do so let my mum. But at Port mcory High School, we had two computers that had the Internet at the time, and they were both for the computer coding class. So what you saw was all you kind of knew. And I think that's the best. It was very much like Summer Bay.
I think, yeah, I often we actually went to the same school, so I went to Port High but I think we're a few years apart.
So you had the Internet.
Well no, I actually remember the internet coming in.
What a day. What a time to be alive, isn't it.
But I remember one of one of our classes at school, would you believe, Laura was surfing studies, where we picked up a surfboard and we walked across the road to the beach.
We used to surf for an hour. Mate, I was going to the wrong school.
We probably dated the same people at some stage.
Oh god, it's not about you and who you dated. Stop always trying to get it back to you.
So do you take an inspiration when you started making jury? Did it come from Port McGrath, from that like idyllic beachside town.
Not so much that I don't think the creative inspiration. My mom put me into beating classes in our local craft store back there when I was eleven, so I was handmaking jewel I learned the basis of jewey back then as a kid. And then my mom and dad always had small businesses. So my mum had a store opposite McDonald's there which is called Near Perfect, which is our factory seconds, and she let me have my little jewelry stand set up there when I was, you know,
twelve years old. So i've kind of, I guess the entrepreneurialism kind of was learnt from my parents and small businesses. And I think that, like I said before, that kind of isolation. I'm also an only child, so I think you naturally somehow have to be creative in that realm. So I think the creativity and how big that I would think, and how crazy of a journey my mind would go on sometimes in creative wise, I think has been a huge part of my journey.
Yeah I'm jumping or well ahead huge Okay, so a few years in the future. But something that I have always found really inspirational from what you created was your Bahemian Buddo ring and the fact that it became this
cult staple and a collectible atom. And I was always curious, is this something that was strategically implemented or is it something more that just happened by happy chance and happy circumstance, and then you were like, hey, I'm onto a good thing here and we know what to make out of it.
It's a great question because usually people like, you know, how do you get your products on celebrities? But I think there's such a dichotomy to celebrity placement, so especially with jewelry, so the products, you know, is so small or secondary to the apparel. You need to firstly be able to get it into the hands of the celebrity or the stylus. Then the celebrity has to be you know, hot at that minute, being like they've got a movie out or something's going on that they're in the press.
If it's a ring, it has to be turned around the right way. If it's earrings. How it can't becover. There's so many things that can go right or wrong. So that's just like getting a photo of on the celebrity. The second thing is once it hits, once you get the image of it, it's only good if you've got only good for you as a business if you've got product in the warehouse, because people are they want it now.
So for us, and the placement that I think really skyrocketed the bohemim Batto for us was the Eva Mendez placement and it was completely unplanned, like we were doing seventy SKUs, so seventy styles per collection. At that point, there was only four collections a year. At our people doing twenty collections a year, And I just designed it like any other piece and just as a segway. But I think with business, you know, everyone's like, oh, it's
a creative company, or it's a design company. Design and creative was the smallest division within our company, like your very warehouse and logistics heavy finance was a big division. So I was kind of, you know, churning through these designs to meet these SKU counts. And it is a matrix that you're feeling when you're designing to kind of, you know, fill out these collections. So I just kind
of put it in. We were working with a PR agent in the States at the time who knew Rachel Zoe the style list, and Rachel was working with Eva, so she placed it there and then we had this placement and it just went berserk. But it was kind of a the stars aligned with it because we got this great photo. Eva had just done a stint in rehab, so she just come out of rehabit. It was her first event, so everyone wanted a photo of her, which is, you know, not an ideal thing. You know, she was
very photographed. The ring looked great on her. We had stock somehow, which was very well because usually you give product out in advance of having stock in the warehouse. Everything aligned and then we're like, wow, that sold out in like twenty four hours. Let's do it in another color and another color, and in the end it came in three hundred and sixty six colorways. People were collecting them, like one lady owns nearly two hundred and sixty year.
I had to be honest. It was sort of the go to present when I was that age.
Yeah, yeah, all my.
Friends would just buy each other.
Those presents well, when we closed, we did in a mini style, so we in the six month lead up to the closure, we did one more collection of them and they just they were selling out within minutes and then that'd end up on EVA Like it was even to me. Now you know, we had that sku in our business for ten years. We sold over one million of them in over five different tiers. So there was the entry price point and went all the way up depending what stones and things we'd use. But it was
the backbone of our business. It never once left our best sellers list.
For me, and coming from a jury background, for me, that was so incredible and so inspiring. And I thought, now, did you do this strategically or I thought maybe it's just one of those things where you get lucky by chance. And so to hear that, it's amazing.
And it's I mean, if I if you could do that by strategic I would, but I don't even know if you can do it without you know, it was we couldn't have even planned.
The stars just aligned, Yeah they did.
And speaking of the celebrities, so was there ever a celebrity that you saw wearing one of your pieces where you were just like, what, I.
Can't believe this, I mean, all of them. It still blows my mind.
You know.
When we actually had this bag, we did a little collection of clutches with jewelry pendants on them and we sent them out to you know, giftelebrities and stylists in the States, and then about a year less so you kind of like there's a life cycle on it. When you gift product're kind of like, alright, in the next three months, we'll keep an eye on photos to see if they were And then so after about a year, Beyonce showed up carrying it and I was just it
was it just literally blew my mind. Her and Jason they used to photograph and they went out on their date nights on her Instagram, and then she was just there holding it. And so it's another thing where you could have every aspiration of wanting to dress a certain celebrity and then it just it just kind of happened. So yeah, and then we had Taylor Swift on the cover of seventeen magazine. But before she was massive and
I'm a huge Shareless Swift fan now. At the time, I was like, oh, this new emerging artist and now I'm like, oh my god, that was incredible. Yeah.
I've seen her, yeah three times in concerts. Samantha Willis was so much more than just jewelry. It was a cult brand, and it was storytelling at its heart, and it was you. What was the most challenging part of being held up as an inspiration?
You guys are making me really emotional today. It was a beautiful reflection.
We are very emotional women. True.
That's a very lovely way to say it. Thank you, Sorry, What was the quest.
You're telling you? How wonderful? What was the most difficult part of what is the most difficult part of being held up as being an inspiration?
I think when you have a brand that you're so modestly named after yourself at twenty one years of age.
I do also like that you used to model for your brand as well afford to pay.
So I was like, oh, give this a crack.
I had your catalogs and I was like, she could do it everything.
You know, I couldn't afford to the paid one. I think when you have a brand that is your name, it naturally is the DNA of you, and it has to tell your story because if not, you're not telling authentic stories. So I think the hardest part about that is is the duality of what you then share with yourself or share with people verse what you keep yourself versus what you have to be transparent with and things
like that. It's really so An example is people in the office when they felt we'd calling me some out of the wills because they're like, no, that's a brand name. So that's how I got the name s W because they needed to differentiate, because you do become so infused in that way. I don't know. I think the rest is like, it's not difficult if if you're being truly authentic. If you're posting something being like does it sound authentic, then it's probably not.
Well. I think that also comes back to your Instagram as well. You use that as a very authentic channel to not only have the communication of what the brand Samantha Will's was, but also for what you stand for. How are you using that now moving forward since you're moving away from jewelry into this personal brand space.
Well, I say everyone is a brand, whether you've got a product or a business. Like if you've got an Instagram feed, you're a publisher. Your CEO of brand. You think, when we know better, we do better. And as you evolve as a person, you start to evolve your thought process and what was once acceptable to you no longer
becomes that. So you can kind of see over my Instagram and I think I've tried to be very vulnerable with that, where I used to post outfits in a mirror that I had in my house, I know the one, you know, So I would post it, and you know, I was doing it to kind of show how I
was starting. I had to find a way to show how I was wearing the jewelry in a consistent basis, and then then they get lots of likes, but the reality was, you know, I was being loan a lot of the clothe some of the closure of mind, but a lot of them were loans. I'm a creative director, so I know how a lighter shot like it just wasn't like if people are looking at that, going why don't I have those type of clothesal, why doesn't don't
myself is in the mirror look like that. It's because you know, I know professional lighting, and I know all these things and so and the reason I actually took all of those off my Instagram is when I was watching the Royal wedding of Meghan and Harry and the commentary was, I can't believe that Kate's were in the same dress twice, like she's throwing shade to Meghan and all this, and I was just like, that is so ridiculous.
And then I thought about it. I'm like, wait, maybe I'm adding to that problem by posting these outfits once and it's the intention wasn't for that, but it was, you know, about the jewelry. But when I step back, I'm like, hang on, no, you're perpetuating that problem. So I was just like enough, you know you, as I said, once you have that realization, it's then the responsibility to do something about it.
People do connect with you as a person. You have more to communicate now as an individual than just as a brand that's connected to a product.
Definitely, I think more to communicate. But I think there was a time when Instagram came out and aspiration was the word rather than inspiration. And I still don't I don't use that word. I don't use word inspiration as associated to myself. But I think you know, you look at and it was it was it was this new platform that was kind of this very polar The whole thing was around filters, so you know, it was around that.
But I think now people are just oversaturated with that kind of messaging, Like people want connection.
You know.
The best brands of female brands, I think are when women can when it can alleviate a pain point for a person. So if that means that something me is seeing something on your Instagram makes me feel connected to you, then that's that's the goal in that authenticity space.
We still have a long way to go, I think in getting everybody to a point where you don't have to feel ashamed to put a photo up that isn't filtered, isn't photoshop, doesn't have perfect lighting like I literally I just had when I had a facial today, you look great, thanks, But I had this peel as well, just giving you all my info here, And I took a selfie of my skin because it looked so good, and I went to put it on Instagram, no makeup at all, no filter, nothing,
The lining wasn't even great, and I put it on. I went to post it and oh, I can't post that I look gross, And then I deleted it for one second and then I thought, how ridiculous that I just said, I can't put this up, so I put it back up. But just that second of insecurity that someone will judge you for being so raw made me feel sick.
I guess it's also comes down to personal development and getting to a point where actually it doesn't matter what other people think, and being true and authentic to yourself. And I think that that's part of everyone's own personal journey and getting there. And you have definitely come closer to what it is that you're trying to achieve on social media, and I just I really think that that's something that is now very aspirational and inspirational at the same time.
Yeah. No, And I think firstly, I think everyone thinks that. I don't think it's isolated issue whatsoever. So I think that and you're right, it does come down to ourselves. And I think the other thing is like other people really don't give a ship, Like we're so focused on like what is people going to think about me? And everyone's just I'm just like, no one's thinking about you, like no one really cares. You sit there and be
like what field looks all what? And it was just like no one really cares.
So it's it's girl straight past you and then you've gone.
I mean, yeah, and although probably like it looks great, like I don't know. I think we spend so much time worried about the response from other people, and everyone's just so worried about themselves. So it's it's yeah, it's a bigger deal than we think it is. The skin looks great. I'd post it for sure.
I mean, I have makeup on Now.
Were there ever one defining moment where you sat back in your career and thought, holy shit, I have made it.
No, that's not because I think once you think that your career is done kind of thing. And I also like, I don't think there ever is an end point, because if there is, then you've probably been quite lazy in your dreaming. I guess I think that you know. The question I do get asked similar to that is, you know, when you made it, you know it was life great kind of thing. I was like, No, it's when you're
in startup. The problems are just big and you don't really know how to you know, tackle them, and it could be probably a financial issue. And the more so then once you take finances out of it and you're like, all right, now we're a very financially viable business. But the problems just get bigger. You just get more equipped to be able to deal with them. Sure, so it's never that it goes away. I think you just mature
and you know a lot more. I think that there's definitely been times where things have happened and I'm like, I couldn't have even dreamt that we could do that. So I think that's probably the closest answer I can give to have you made it. I'm like I never thought that, but I was like, wow, like this is bigger than I could have ever thought.
I think as things grow as well, you then have the problems that occur. Have such a higher level of responsibility because you're responsible for so many people, and so sometimes it's almost like ignorance is bliss that gets you through things. That stuff you're like, oh, I can do that, and then as you become more aware of what's at stake, it's almost like you can be less inclined to take risks.
Absolutely. I look back when I was twenty one and started the business, Everyone's like, oh, you're so brave. I was like no, I was naive, I had no idea, and I kind of envy twenty one year old mindset me because I'm so fearful of so many things because I know so much more now. So the more you know, the more you know, you kind of think. So, yeah, I think it's definitely that, and I think that is a good thing when you're likely, you know, your responsibility
is to other people's livelihood. Absolutely, there's a responsibility there. But yeah, it's a different mindset.
So on the other end of the spectrum, I mean, you've said that there was never this moment where you're like, yes, I've made it. But was there a moment that you just thought I can't do it. I'm going to give up, it's too hard. I have heard you say before that you don't like to be called an overnight success because you put in the hardyards. So was there ever this time where you thought I can't do it anymore? Yes?
Every day.
I love this.
This is now a ten minute podcast, seen question. I love it absolutely, Yes, I mean, and so many times throughout the journey up until the day that I did decide to close. I think at the start, as I said, you're like, you wear all hats, you know, you're the cleaner and the designer and the marketer and all these things, and it just becomes so overwhelming and you just don't know when you're starting out. It's not that you know
when you're doing it wrong. You just don't know. So you're kind of like trading water, just kind of learning along the way other times throughout I think, you know, at the end of by the fifteen year mark, I designed over twelve thousand pieces of jewelry, so I guess every like five thousand pieces, I'm like, oh my god, more jewelry kind of things, and that kind of started to wear on me. But I think I just kind of accepted it as like not creative block, but creative
exhaustion in a way. And I'm like, all right, well, you know that you're producing, as I said, up to twenty collections a year at one point, so it's just part of it, definitely around production and sourcing. That's a huge thing where I'm like, do we really have to go through this again? So it's all the same things that just repeat and probably likes a year on the dot of every like collection, I'd have the same reaction, but it just kind of, yeah, flowed with it.
Do you think that at one point, like now, after fifteen years, after you're saying, every year came around and I just thought, I don't have to I can't do this again. It became too much of work and less of passion. Is that how you found I.
Think at one level, yes, on a very creative front. But I think over the years, every time i'd think that, I'd always go back to, well, what else do you want to do? In the answer was nothing like I love this. So I think I think it's okay to have days where you don't. You're not like celebrating, you know this our entrepreneurial journey, and I think that they are actually quite common days. I think in the end that wasn't the reason I decided to close. I decided
to close because for personal reason, for two reasons. One that I felt the brand of a fifteen years had done everything and more that we'd wanted it to, and I think that continuing to push that it wasn't really honoring the legacy. I want to take kind of a leaf out of the Seinfeld book and close while we're on a high. And so many people had touched the brand over those years, like hundreds and hundreds of people, and I think all the work that they had done
on it meant was important to so many people. So I wanted to kind of, you know, round it out at fifteen years for a legacy perspective and from a personal perspective. You know, I was a basing. I am based between New York and Sydney, but for nine of those years I was six weeks New York, ten days
Sydney consistently. So by the time I had done that hundredth flight between Sydney and JFK, it was you know, when I added it up, and that's not including into production houses in China and India over to our European officers. That was just that leg and it just was over three and three months without my feet on the ground. And I'm like, how can you be grounded in life when your feet physically aren't on the planet.
And I hope you had frequent flyers.
She had her seat when I get on an then corner so like, oh, I welcome back to I was like, Oh, that's great, they know my name.
And then after I'm like, that's really bad there.
I think it's such an important message what you said before about how when you're an entrepreneur, when you're running your own business, people think that you're just living your dream, but it's still a job, and especially over the years, it does bear on you and there are days where you have to sit back and go, Okay, well, I don't really want to work today, right, But that doesn't take away from the fact that we are very privileged to be able to still absolutely do a job that
we love and it wouldn't be work. It just wouldn't be work if you were going there every single day going whoo, well, I think, you know, there are times where I hate my job, but I actually love it, and I feel so privileged that I get to run my own business.
And you're not talking about the podcast, and there's too sometimes no, but I think one can't.
Exist without the other. Like if it was just all roses, I'd probably my feedback would be like, you're probably not pushing the boundaries enough. And you know, you appreciate things because of the bad days, and that shows you how good the good days are. You know, Jewelry was my hobby and then and I turn that into a very very big commercial venture. But there's this thing now where someone's good at something you're like, oh, you should sell that,
and it's like, you don't. You don't have to monetize everything that you love because in the end it doesn't not that I hate jewelry by any means, but it became you know, I was designing to a matrix. It wasn't actually that creative when you hit that type of level commercial requirement. So I think to follow curiosities, I think is a big thing these days, and it doesn't actually have to mean that you monetize it.
Yeah. I think that we do, though, live in a society where if you do have any sort of skill set, people like, oh, you could work for yourself, you could run your own business. But there's so many more facets of running a business that doesn't just come down to being creative or making something, and you've got to be passionate about all those other things absolutely as well to
be able to do it successfully. And I think that's why so many people try and start business ventures, but then they fail because in essence, they're really passionate about their hobby, but they're not passionate about business.
They're not passion about run a P and L and a warehouse.
Yeah, yeah, is a very special thing, specialized thing, passionately, And.
I say, find people who are good at the things you are not. And I think when I found my business partner three years in, you know, I'd gotten myself into eighty thousand dollars debt, but I built this like very well known brand even at that so I knew how to build a brand, but did not know how to run a business. And the success of the brand was meeting him, and he really commercialized the back end and it then allowed me to do what I was really good at.
So you did.
Actually, this is super interesting. You did go from eighty thousand dollars in debt to turning over your first million in two years?
Was it in our first year?
Was the year?
Yeah?
First year?
Absolutely incredible? How was there I'm not going to say was there a secret? But was there a secret?
I mean, what if there was?
I really didn't know it. But what changed all of a sudden, First and foremost, it was getting my business partner on board because my mind just didn't think in numbers. You know, at twenty three, I really did not know how to run a business at all, and it wasn't It's kind of like you need I say, business is what and brand is why. See business is your product, it's the P and L. But why you do it is the brand. And I was doing it completely out of passion.
You know.
It started on my dining table. But if I hadn't had a business structure around it, I'd still be on my dining table making jewely till all hours of the morning. So I think that's the first foundation of it, and after that there's many different factors. You know, Celebrity was a huge part for us, but doesn't mean it's right for every brand. But I think having that commercial and creative and where that meets. And that's assuming you want
a commercial, creative business. A lot of people I say that, you know, if you're on the art, if you're a true, true artist, and you're like, I'm not selling out for anything kind of thing. You know, I'm happy to sleep on a friend's couch. It's all about the art. Like, that's not me. I didn't barely finish high school. I didn't go to a design college. I'm like, no, how do we tell a story? I start at the end, I'm like, how do we tell this story and reach
a huge amount of people by telling stories? And then what do we need to fill that pipeline. Oh, okay, it's a product and it's jewelry, and here's how you make it, and here's how you produce it, and kind of you know, working backwards that way, and that requires a commercial framework.
But it's amazing that you've managed to maintain that and still keep authenticity to the brand and still keep storytelling, because I think that one of the things that I've loved so much about Samantha Will's as a brand is that even though you are massive and we're in every single shop that there was and department stores, the story behind it, though, still seemed very relatable.
It's interesting you say and thank you we worked. That was the goal, And I think the biggest mistake I made in business was when I moved over to the States in twenty ten. So we're getting a huge amount of celebrity placements, and we're getting a lot of American retailers calling so opportunities Sickly, we're sending all these productiver and we're like, hey, we need someone on the ground over there to see where the brand's actually being placed. So I went over there. I was twenty eight. It
was the first time I had a disposable income. We were very successful in Australia by that point, first time I'd lived out of Australia, and I just got stars in my eyes. I was like, this is amazing. All
these brands are creative energy. It was just brilliant. And I think, as you know, brand builders and as creative directors, we can have every ideal of wanting our brand to sit at a certain place in the market, so we can be like, all right, you know, I want to be a thousand known as a thousand dollar necklace band. I only want to be in vogue and being Barney's and Bergdorf's kind of thing. But at the end of the day, the market tells you where your brand sits.
So if the marketplace is buying one hundred and twenty dollars bracelet sets and that's your biggest selling skew, then you're literally one hundred and twenty dollars bracelet set brand, which is fine, But if you're trying to continually talk to someone that you want to be talking to who's not listening to you, but you know all the people that are listening to you, you know you're not talking
to them anymore. So I went over to the States, I was like, no, I want the cemunt Liwi's brain to sit a tier to a tier and a half higher. So in Australia we were very successful. We had, you know, were known as a bohemian brand. It was very layering, burnished metals, lots of turquoise, lots of color, statement size. And I went over to the States. I was like, nope, this, we're not doing turquoise anymore. We're doing only polish metals.
Everything's minimal. We're doing no layering. And you know what the Bondo market story, that's not very that's not glamorous dining room. Oh that's not so. I stripped every piece of authenticity out of our story. I changed the design language within one season and shockingly not so. It didn't work. And we'd come off the back of such a successful season that retailers and the like, all right, well we're going to give you another twenty percent extra budshirt, so
they kind of buying really heavily. It didn't sell through for them. The consumer became engage because my story became everything you just spoke about became you know, so inauthentic and no one that well, it's like jewelry like it was,
there was nothing exciting about it. And then my team lost faith in me because you know, I was a creative director that wasn't directing, And it was a real I call it a come to Jesus moment where I had to really go back and sit with the girl at the Bondo Market's table and ask her why did
you start this business in the first place? And I picture it now like sitting in the demise of like this like demolished kind of construction site and having to pick up the pieces of what we're going to move forward with, but also leaving behind the ego and the you know, imposter syndrome and all these things that I allowed to get in conversation with each other for far too long and go back to the authenticity. And it
took a long time to rebuild that. So it's definitely the biggest, our, biggest offering I think as a brain was our authenticity, and it was also my biggest mistake to step anyway away from that.
Storytelling is such an important part of brand absolutely, and once you lose that, it just becomes generic. People buy into the story and they buy into you as a person, and that's why there's this continued legacy that people want to know what it is that you're doing now because you were inextricable from the brand.
Yeah, And I think the thing with storytelling is, you know, I said, people can replicate your product, and they can replicate your packaging, but if you are telling an authentic story, it cannot be replicated. Is the one thing that makes you unique in this market. And I think it's so important and I don't think it's spoken about enough actually, because yeah, it's businesses. As I said, business is what, but your story is why you're doing it.
And you did recently decide to walk away from the brand when it was so successful commercially.
Still talk us through that well.
I think, as you said before, Laura El, for me to walk away from it was a really big ask and it's a long journey to I think rename a brand, and my heart wasn't built in a way where I could kind of sell the brand off and just watch what someone else did with this amount that will's business. Too many people had put their heart and soul into it, so selling wasn't an option to me. And I think I got to the point where you know, I'd done so many of those flights and I don't know. I
just wanted to do something new and I did. I didn't know what that was. And so my business partner and I send each other for emails, you that have nothing to do with the numbers or the P and L, and he'd sent me this email and he said the
businesses at are crossroads. And essentially what the email was saying was, you know, we need I know that you know you don't want to be traveling as much, and maybe we can look to get an head designer and replace you as head designer, or you know, tell me what you want to do personally and we'll build the
business around that. And I kind of I opened this email and I was at a meditation retreat in upstate New York at the time, and I had my phone in one hand and it said the business at a crossroads. And I looked up and I was actually standing at a physical crossroads on the campus, and I just put my hand on my heart and I just heard this voice.
And people are going to think this is so will and crazy, but I swear to God like I said this voice, and I was like, it's time to and it was the calmest almost like a whisper, but like an assertive whisper. I was like, Okay, it's time to close.
And I stood at that crosses and I've got a photo of it on my phone, which I revert back too often, and it kind of so the right side of the brain is the creative, you know, intuitive side, and the left side is the more logistics and analytical, and the right side of the crossroads was kind of this beautiful like bark chip through a kind of veggie garden. And then the left crossroad went around campus. It was the more the tarmac kind of road that went around campus.
And I was like, no, it's time to follow you intuition and see, you know, see what happens. And I think until you close a door, I know, specifically as a creative person, until you close a door, you can't allow new ideas to arrive to you. So that was the moment that I decided, and I didn't tell a soul for two weeks. I kind of woke up every day pretending that I'd already done it to myself because I woke up and been like, was said to myself, you don't have a company. Now, how does it feel?
I didn't say, what do you think about it? I didn't know, because thinking and feeling very very different things. And every morning I wake up, I said it, you know, it feels right, And so then we started to implement that closure process.
I've just got goosebumps from that story because you can you tell it with so much truth in your eyes. I know you think people think that's crazy. I don't think that's crazy because I'm really big personally on the universe and asking it for what you need. I did actually read that you said that the universe always has three answers, and that is yes, not right now, or I have something better in.
Store for you. Absolutely, So do you do you think that that is?
Those three statements can relate to any situation. Is that how you look at it, Every situation can go into three categories?
Absolutely?
I do.
I think that. I think we're always being guided, and whether that is whatever your belief is in a power higher than yourself, whether that is God, whether that is religion, whether that is universe nature, whatever it is. I think we're always being guided, but we get so focused on the outcome that we want. So it's this tiny little
pin hole of an hour come that we think. And that's what I was saying before when he said did you have a Oh, I made it success and I couldn't even dream of what So if the brand hadn't been what I wanted, we would have had one retail store at Bondai, probably near Bondai Market. So once we surrender what we think we need, we really then can sit and start to see what's unfolding around us. And I like an universal guidance to listening to your own
internal intuition and matching it with external awareness. And that Crossroads moment was completely a joining of the two. And the other part of that story is I walked back to my cabin that night and I kind of I looked up and I said, to the universe, like this affects at a lot of people, please give me a sign that this is the right thing to do. And
so I went into the bookstore. I was just kind of like looking around, and I was really drawn to this book, which was Elizabeth Gilbert's Big Magic, and in it she interviews singer songwriter Tom Waits and he said, you know, as artists, we take ourselves so seriously when all I'm really doing as a songwriter is creating jewelry for the inside of people's minds. And I'd been offered a few book deals by this point. I was like, I'm not a writer. I'm not a writer. I can't write.
And I was like, oh wait, maybe I just need to be making jewelry for the inside of people's minds. And I was like, writing needs to be my next journey.
Well, we were going to ask about your new venture and your business memoir that you're writing. Who is the person that you want reading this book?
I think, Well, the book essentially parallels the journey of the brand, good and bad, and also parallels that against my personal life and the personal sacrifices or wins and losses that might not have been seen so publicly. So it's I guess, yes, it is a business memoir, and anyone looking to start a business or has a business. There's a lot of business stuff in there, But essentially I think it's written for anyone who's ever thought they're
on the wrong path. And it kind of goes back to that where I say, we hone in so instantly be like, how did I end up here? Wyatt? But it's really any situation that we're in, if it's not going our way, there's a reason for that. And if we can let go of the anger and frustration and look around, we will see where we're trying to be guided to. And I think in writing memoir, in the concept of hindsight and retrospect, I can look back on
these fifteens that I'm running. I'm like, oh my god, I remember sitting, you know, crying my eyes out over something, and then you know, to be able to write it ten years later, you're like, oh, that's why that happened. But in the moment, it's, you know, the most devastating thing in the world. So I think it's you know, it's a bit of business, it's a bit of personal, and I just hope it's it's a vulnerable sharing and I hope other people see a little bit of their stories in it as well.
We did have a conversation in last week's episode about this concept of having it all and what that means to people and if it's even possible to have it all, And I'd love to get your perspective on what having it all means to you.
I think that the concept of having it all suggests we don't have it all right now, And I think that if we continually live outside of this present moment, that's we're living in anxiety and we're living in this future trip of what if I don't get to X, Y and Z. So I think in this very moment, I like to go back to that practice of yeah, right now, we do have it all, and it's unfolding exactly as it should be.
Amen. Yeah, Amen, we were literally our conclusion last week. Yeah.
We started off with saying, yeah, you can have it all, and then when we both sat and thought about it, we're like, you know what, you can't. Something has to be sacrificed.
But I think it's like if the traditional have it all is I assume is a house baby, and who said that, That's what happened exactly. So I think once if we're trying to gauge it against saying, we need to know what that is. And as I said, it's different for everyone, but I think it's such an unrealistic and dated concept that we hold on to but we don't even really know.
What it is.
Trust me, having it all? I eat baby, house job. You are just tired. You are tired. I don't even have a baby, hope.
So, Samantha, I don't know if you actually know, but we talk a lot about relationships and.
Love on this podcast, Relliant.
Yeah, so we do believe that.
Things happen for a reason, but breakups and toxic relationship they can have quite a profound effect on you as a person and guide you and teach you lessons. I did speak last or a few weeks ago about a relationship I was in with a sociopath and how that got me to where I am today, and then I don't regret it, and I do know you have quite an interesting breakup story, and I heard you speak about it.
I think a lorial event. We sort of chatted afterwards, but can you, if you feel like telling us, tell us a little bit about that relationship and what happened.
Yeah. So I had been in a relationship for three years and I think, you know, if I parallel that to my business, it was around two thousand and five, twenty fifteen, and if anyone looking on would be like, oh, that's a dream career for you. You got you know,
named as Yellowgrown creativeal director. You were your profile was rising outside of the jewelry stuff, I was on a plane every other week, like it looked a dream run career wise, and I'd been in a relationship at that point for three years, and there was a lot of moving parts. The company was you know, going so so well. We had everyone in the right place in the team, and there was just so many things going on. It was almost like a Jenga tower that there was everything
was holding the other other piece up. But the thing with the Jenga tower is once you remove one piece, the whole thing comes crashing down. And I found out for me, that crashing down was finding out that my boyfriend was cheating on me. And you know, the few days after, I just I couldn't speak. I couldn't I just like completely fell apart us, Like I was operating at such a high frequency that this, you know, really
really flawed me. So my friends would come over and get me out of bed and then I'd just you know, they changing my sheets. I'd jump back in because I just couldn't face what was going on. So that was happening to me personally publicly, I had some very big commitments that I had to fill and I had to go back to Australia and shoot three big campaigns. I had to shoot the Yellow Glen campaign, which was a TVC,
billboard and print campaign was going nationally. I had two magazine covers to shoot and they were all locked in and I was just a complete mess. But I didn't want to let these these clients sound. That was very important to me, and so I would set my alarm for nineteen minutes before I knew I had to get up, and I would just cry. I would just lay on the bathroom floor of any random hotel I was staying
in and just try and breathe. And I was like, Okay, if I can get all the tears out before I have to be on set, then you know, hopefully the day will go a bit smoother. If on set I had to fall apart, I'd politely excuse myself and go to the bathroom and burst into tears and come back and profusely apologize to the makeup artists and keep shooting.
I could cry right now.
I feel you, and you know, you know, when you're like you in such a fragile seat and the worst thing someone can ask you is how are you?
Because you're just like, oh god, you over at the air. Yeah, how did you find out.
Well, so I found out through I found text messages on his phone and so then I kind of went and did all the work that I had to do, and I came back and I just I knew within me I didn't have all the information, and I kind of liken it to a pool of you know, when you're a little kid, you jump in the pool and you're like, I just want to touch the I want touch the bottom, and you hold your breath and you kind of hover around the middle. You come back and hover.
So it was kind of hovering around, and I knew that finding out all this impot I had just be really honest with myself. And that's the thing with honesty that the truth gets you instant answers, whether you like it or not. So I was like, I need to touch the very bottom of this and ask some questions. And so I gathered up every piece of courage I had within me, and I sat in front of him a few weeks after finding out, and I said, how long has this affair been going on? And he looked
at me and he said which one. I said, well, how many have there been? And he said at least eight? And as abhorrent and as like it even like makes my stomach turn now retelling that story. But as as abhorrent as that was, it put me to the bottom. It was like there was no that was all the information. Yeah, you can't go low, Yeah, and you have to you have to go to the bottom to move through it. And so I sat down there and you know, I just describe this darkness and it's kind of like how
I talked about before I demolish the brain. You've got to sit in that rubble and that darkness to be able to move forward. As I sat in this darkness and I looked around a little bit, and it's I kind of like explain it now where you have to sit close to what hurts you. Like we try so hard to get away from this pain, but once we're down there, we can sitit it with it and try to understand it is when we start to grow and evolve and really take on these lessons for what is
next on our path. And so you know, I kind of went through that healing process which took a long time and started to ascend. And for me, that's when you start to can bring alchemy to your life and you you're so the concept of alchemy is this old
medieval concept of turning dirty metals into goals. So as a jewelry designer, I loved it and I thought, you know, down there was it was really dark, but I'm ascending now, and for me, the surmount the world's foundation was what my alchemy was because I didn't want any woman to feel that, you know the duality of small businesses that life happens and it can be shipped, and breakups happen and things happen, but you know, you still got to front up.
And deal with Amen. Amen, And so I wanted a.
Place where other women could kind of log on it any hour of the day. And when I was starting out in business, it was the monthly profiles of like, oh he's a designer profile. It was so beautiful and styled, and I wanted a place where I was like, no,
no fluff and glamor. I want people to be able to log in it anytime the day, because small business is not known to five, you're up at four am doing whatever, where they could log in and read real stories and see how that it affects people's personal life as it does professional And so that was kind of what I took out of you know, it was a healing process for me to kind of put some good into the world after going through that.
Well that's sort of how we came here. Actually, we were getting so many people contact us and ask us, you know, different questions about relationships and love, and so we thought, let's just put it out there to the world. But we are super raw and honest on here, and I do want to ask you. I know, when I found out that my ex had a double life, we're getting married together for two years. So sorry, oh no,
it's like dodged a bullet. Fine, but I had this feeling and I wanted if you had it too, And I'm disgusted I had it, but I think a lot of people do. I still loved him, and I couldn't understand it because I could't understand why I was still in love with his person. And I wonder if any part of him sort of was begging for me to stay. I wonder if I would have did you when you found out that, did you still love him and you still wanted to stay, or like what we're feeling.
I think that's so brave of you to share that. So thank you for sharing that. It's when I said how many and he said eight. My response then was actually showed me why I was in that position or in that darkness in the first place, because he said eight and I said, please don't leave me. So you know, so publicly I fought and stood and truthfully so stood for women's empowerment and I was that was what I want.
My fight was. But personally, you know, at the core of empowerment is self worth, and personally, somewhere along the line in that relationship, I had let it completely drop the bar so low, and I think you know by replying please don't leave me is the same as what you're saying, like is there a part that he still
wants to fix this? And you know and he didn't, and it it was that reason that's the bottom where you're like, Okay, this darkness is because you need to align your self worth, both publicly and personally, because what was next to me was the samount, the worst foundation, and I needed to be in alignment to put that into the world. So in answers to your question, yes, I think, and it's you also like, hold on, you missed that person. It's not you know, there's still good times.
It wasn't always awful, So I think it is a.
Very natural reaction. I think it's also you would have had a life planned with him, like we were going to do this and this is when we'll get married and this is well by. So I think for a lot of people too, it's the loss they mourn what was going to be.
I think absolutely having to let go of that. But I think that's almost a hologram in itself, like if I look back now, it's not like it was all rosy. My therapist was like, some o that this happened because you wore the red flags as blind and I got to say, this happened because you wore the red dress around Red's not good on about that, no, I think, And it goes back to paying attention, Like we see
oftentimes what we want to see. And that's not saying that I had no idea that he was cheating, but there was times where I was like, okay, I'll just let that slide, or you know, as I was saying about lowering the bar, we like you continually load the bar. When they say one thing, you're like, oh, that's they love me so much, But it's really just above a very low bar, so it's not a great gauge. And do you feel like that's put you in a place
now where you would just never let that fly. It's definitely given me a whole new level of self respect. I think it's raised my own level of that, which is the most important level of it. And I think when people show you who they are, When people tell you who they are, believe them rather than it is about paying attention. So I think that that is what it really taught me my tolerance for your bullshit bullshit meter, But like my times were like, oh they might change,
it's just nonexistent anymore. When people show you who they are, believe.
Them, really appreciate you sharing that. What comes with seemingly being so successful and so unattainable is that people who are going through similar things think, oh, but that stuff doesn't happen to these other people. And so it's so nice when you see for self, who I think is inspirational to then go, actually, do you know what? I've been in some pretty dark, shitty places too, and I was pretty good at covering it up at the time. It's very relatable, So thank you for sharing that.
And I think that's the importance, Like there's a responsibility around storytelling because you can't just tell the highlight reel. It's not true. And I think that the said before we connect our vulnerabilities are found through storytelling, and that's where the connection is. So I think there's a real responsibility around it.
Yeah, thank you, I appreciate it.
And are you a big question?
Are you dating anyone?
Now?
I will like that one's line.
So tell me what is next for Samantha Wheels. Oh, so I've got to get these book finished. I'm on a deadline the Story that Never ends to line. It will be out pre released early next year and then it'll be on bookstands by June next year. And I'm also working on the relaunch of Themanth Lewis Foundation and Samantha wuls dot com, so they will be merging into a beautiful news site which hopefully will be up in the next few weeks or so.
We are lucky enough at Samantha joining us on Ask Uncut today. Samantha, this is where we have listeners writing a question today. The question is when is ghosting on Tinder or any other form of ghosting? Okay, is it better to tell the truth or ghost.
Like, how far along is the relationship Tinder relationship.
Well, there's no specific Samantha, you've been Samantha one or two days, one or two days?
All right, let's just say a week, Okay. I guess in general ghosting, I mean, I think ghosting is a general rules, not ideal. But then also I don't feel like you you don't always owe someone something if you've just had a few text mess just back and forth. But yeah, I think like just being like, hey, I wish you well, there's always a kind way to end things.
I think it's good to have closure, even if you don't owe that person anything. People crave having a closed book, and you don't have.
To be brutal. You could just be like, oh it's you know, take care, like there's ways you can round it out. And if they're out of here, and if they don't get that, then that's their issue.
I used to I used to have a really hard time if I wanted to end something or not speak to someone anymore or I used to have a really hard time. And I will admit I have ghosted before, but I was on the other end of that and it just feels shitty. When you think that something's going really well and they're not responding to you or you're not hearing from them, all you want is an answer. And then I was seeing this one guy and he was super honest with me. He said, I really liked him,
and he said, I think you're great. Spark's not there and he which sounds brutal, but it did.
It's great.
Well, my thing is it didn't affect me.
I was like, thanks, cool, Otherwise you'd be wondering for well.
That's when I realized that I should be doing that to them too, instead of worrying it's going to hurt their feelings. They're going to care for about zero point two seconds and they're going to move on totally.
But it's because we're so fearful of any sort of confrontation, as people that were kind of groomed to be like, oh, don't say anything, they might upset someone. Like everything's got to be piece. Absolutely, it does in a lot of aspects of life, but when it comes to delivering truth, if that person takes that badly, at least you've done everything to be as gentle and kind as possible.
Agree.
So I think ghosting is shit, I have done it, would do it again because that would be weird.
I did read the Think the other day though, where it said if you're dating, like in the New dating a few weeks, and it's like, if you're dating someone and they like you, you'll know, if they don't, you'll just be confused. But so where was that when I needed that?
Yeah, so you're thinking, oh, should he hasn't written to me?
Just don't, just don't. Yeah, just like it is true, they're gonna let you know. It's like you are. You're gonna let someone know if you like them. So I know, we don't.
Complicate it so much.
And people are never that busy. Like, if you're dating someone who's too busy to spend time with you, it's just probably not the fact. It's because if you are a priority, they will never be too busy to make you.
And if they are too busy, then you don't want to be dating someone who's too busy. Yeah, we're so wise, I.
Love we all agree.
I'm just like really shattered by that comment because I'm too busy to date right now, and I know that sounds sad, but now you've said no one should date me because you're but.
You are too busy, which means that then but then you're gonna be investing your time in some way because you're only going to let them down.
So then you're probably going to attract the exact right person. That's what happens when you're busy.
I hope. So yeah, I'm just gonna take numb job. I'm getting a fifth job.
Nighttime stacking shells.
You gotta stack that.
We finish every episode we're talking about our suck and our sweet for the week. You can kick it off because once again, I don't know what my suckle my sweet is. I even sent you a memo this week and I say, this is hard. It's a really hard one, especially if you've had just like a good week. So where this stemmed from, I don't know if' even told you. This is just something my family grew up doing. So the six of us and my parents used to make us sit around at the kitchen table and say you're suck.
It's just a way to force children to talk. Well, we do this every night in the Batch house. Once we finished our group dates and our single dates, all the girls would sit around on the bunk beds and go what was your suck and your Sweet?
Yes told me. On The Bachelor they called it rosenthorne.
Though we all that was good, we did not call it rosenthorn. You need to be hired Bachelor producers if you listen to this, which I know that you do. Higha Samantha Willis, she is fun employed right now.
We definitely didn't call it rosen No, but we called it The cock and Rose are what bred once again?
No, a cocktail party followed by rose ceremony. The lingo was.
The reference.
It wasn't like some sexual party. Calm down, okay, so suck and sweet.
You can know, Samantha, you can start what is your suck and your Sweet? No pressure.
I mean, I didn't know how fun this podcast was going to be. This has been, This has been brilliant. I was gonna say that Taylor Swift released her new song this week, which I'm really loving. So I've got to I've got two sweets, have.
Some more nice? Do you have any sucks?
No, I've had a pretty good. No, I'm gonna have to I'm gonna have to think there's anything bad, but no, I mean it's great. I've got two sweets.
Okay, break the rules only because we like you, We're gonna let you break the rules.
I'm gonna think of one.
Okay, got you go this way, so I'll go Okay, So my second suite, controversially are the same thing. We're recording this on a Thursday. Yesterday was my birthday.
Happy birthday, guys, Thank you so planned.
So yeah, well, I, you know, single life, went out to buy myself a little present, was thinking maybe some perfume. I came back with a Range Rover.
You bought yourself a range Rover.
Who are you?
No perfume and a Range Rover? I know, I just had this yolo.
I've always wanted a range Rover. So you bought yourself a range Rover?
Range Rover? A vote? I go out by myself like absorbent breastpads. What do you mean you went and bought yourself a Range Rover? Done anything like this?
But so is your suck that you don't have perfume?
Or is your suck that you have no money less than your bank account?
Suck is not the perfume, But I love your train of thought. No, my suck is that I am minus a lot of money. Now wow, But my sweet is I have a range Rover. That's pretty oppressive. You win, that's a great, that's yeah. I don't know which outweighs the other though.
Can you pick me up in the mornings to drag me here if you bring me some perfume? All right, so Samantha, No, we've already done. Samantha's got to do my suck. And she was gonna think of a suck, wasn't she.
Oh, I wanted a coffee so bad. So I was on set shooting something this morning. I wanted to coffee so bad, and someone kindly went and got some for everyone, and then I forgot to drink it and then it was cold. And that is that one.
If that is your level of suck. I love your life.
It's this sweet. It's been good.
Yeah, that's great. Yeah, Laura, I've also had a really good week, and so I hate doing this when my week's been great because I have nothing to complain about. My sweet is annoyingly always the same thing. Molly is amazing. I love my daughter. I'm obsessed with her. It's disgusting. No, she's ridiculous. I saw her laugh in your video and it was so cute. Just wait until she's a little bit older, like maybe thirteen when I want to throw her out the door and lock her in the garage.
But right now she's just the dream. She is on a new no one cares, she's on a new sleep sleep routine. It's great, I'm getting sleep. My life is brilliance.
These are huge.
Sweet well, they really are, especially when you're a new mum and you don't really get out much and nothing really happens in your life. Sleep is like, that's the sweetest, that is the sweetest of the sweet ah. And my suck, my suck, Oh my sucks. I don't really have many sucks. My biggest suck this week was that I was a little bit irritable and I picked a fight with Matt over nothing over Instagram. We had a fight, a full blown actual fight over Instagram.
Yeah.
I just called Laura actually on the phone and I hung up.
Don't go giving out too much of my information. I was leaving it at that.
I could just hear it. No, I could just hear it in your voice. I was like, something is irritating her. Has it been resolved?
Though? Oh yeah, we never we don't fight, and when we do it was over the fact that I wouldn't take a photo of Matt for Instagram. I was too busy, and then I got really angry at him and it was super unreasonable. And then ten minutes later, ten minutes later, we both realized that we were assholes and we stopped. Did you take a part for him? No, there was no time.
There was no time.
So unfortunately, guys, you didn't get to see what he want today because I didn't take a photo of him. That was my suck, and my stuck for next week is going to be that I had a fight because I told everyone about this one. Well, guys, thank you so much again for listening to another episode of Life Uncut. Samantha. You are the dream and we are so grateful that you came today and shared your story.
Thank you. You guys are awesome. This has been so fun. Thank you for having me.
You're actually more than welcome. It has been so fun. If you want to come back anytime and answer our questions for Life Uncut, and if you are far more informed than what we are or not, I've.
Learnt so much here today. Thank you guys so much for sharing.
You are high. Well, guys, please, if you enjoyed this episode, leave a review, hit subscribe, send us your questions so that we can give you out very poorly ill informed answers next week.
And keep your eyes out for Samantha's book, because we will be absolutely and we love love, we love love.
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