Hi, guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life un Cut. I'm Brittany and I'm Laura. And Brittany, what the hell's been going down? Lady? Look, before we get into it, I just want to say thank you for getting dressed up for the occasion today. I've just soon called into Laura and she's sitting here in a very beautiful, mind you, very beautiful, very matching, like a baby pink underwear set. So I'm really happy you put your undies
on for me. Well I'm hin just so you guys, I mean you guys already know, like we're obviously recording, these are very different time zones, and we always make jokes about how we are wearing our underwear, but today we are literally wearing our underwear, like both of us Brits in a single and her undies and I'm hearing a Brian undies because do you know what, That's just
what friends do. It's literally like these podcast episodes, well the start of them anyway, It's just like Zoom and your bestie, sorry, Brett, Like we're at the point in our relationship now where I don't need to put pants on for you, and I'm not gonna have a shower. What do you mean we're at the point now. This has been like this from day one. This has not
been like a slow gradual ascent. Well, speaking of like how disgusting I am, I do have a bit of a story for you, which I've been saving to tell you. And it's not like you come to the podcast with like fun stories that you're doing in your life and then I'm just like this disgusting mom, and my life is like slowly deteriorating. So this happened yesterday. You're not disgusting. Hang on, I might change that train of thought after
you tell me your story. Hit me with this story, okay, And I feel like every single mom is gonna relate to this. Once upon a time, there was a time where I used to look at other moms and I thought like, oh, it's so disgusting how they'll put that half like masticated piece of food that their child's been chewing on in their mouth, or it's disgusting how like they don't mind that they touch who or like get
baby weirdness on them. Like all that stuff that used to gross you out kind of just changes after you become a mum. You're like you become weirdly okay with every single bodily function that happens because it just happens without you being able to have any control, partly by yourself but also from your own kids. It's like when you see kids drop something. I remember, like I've seen kids drop their food what they're eating, like it might
be watermelon or something on the ground. Their mum just picks it up, then they lick it clean, and then I give it back to them, and I'm like, well, yeah, like you'll suck a dummy. I mean, maybe not a watermelon. I don't think I would suck my kid's watermelon, but I would like pick up Lola's dummy, suck the dummy, and then give it to her. So it's fine for me to suck what's been in the gutter, but it's not okay for Lola to suck what's been in the gutter.
You've got immunity, You've had a lot of things in your mouth. Like even this is not the gross story, but like yesterday, like Lola was sucking on a lamb chop and then I was like, oh, there's still plenty of meat left on that. So when then I ate the lamb chop. Hang on, is that you like five months old? What five month old? It's a lamb chop.
She's seven months. I'm not doing puraid food anymore. I'm doing this thing called baby lead weeding, where you just give them like pieces of food and they baby Basically, I'm like ready for her to move out of home. You just let them feed themselves. I've signed her into university. Yeah, she doesn't chew on the lamb shop, she just sucks on it. So, Okay, that's not what I did. That
was gross. But every time that I think maybe she's done a pooh, I'll pick her up and smell her butt, right Like, I'll put her butt into my face and smell it. That is logical, makes sense. I'm here for that. Yeah. So it's like you get very close to your child's butt to try and figure out whether they've done a pool or not. You could always just like maybe pull the back of their pants, like you know, or lift the back of the nappy out so you can check
in there. But no, I like to like really immerse, like think about like putting your face into freshly washed sheets and being like a I do that, but into my child's ass. So okay, yesterday she was in the hard chair and she had obviously done a poop. Not only had she done a pooh, I like watched her grunt and groan and do the pooh. Then I kind of forgot the that's what she'd done, And a little while later I was like, oh, has she done a pooh?
So I picked her up. I slammed my face into her butt with a semi open mouth and got a full mouthful of poo that had come through her pants. And at the time I was like, wow, that is so beyond gross. And then I was also like, oh, it's fine, whatever, where's the are you trying to tell me? There was physical, physically pooh on your face, on your lips.
It was like, okay, imagine if you were to get a type of wet cheese, or okay, what's like a wet cheese, like cottage cheese, cottage cheese, and you're going to put it in a light weight material and you're going to drain the cottage cheese. It was like that, but it was pooh in my ants, in a nappy, and it came out of her pants and into my mouth, and I was like, I have hit the part of being a mum that is just so fut Like my barometer for what is gross is so far gone now
that I don't think it's ever coming back. You literally ate shit, Yeah, you're inhaled and you so so hang on, let me get this straight. Lola gets a lamb chop and you get shit. Welcome to lockdown in the Johnson household. Laura's eating shit, and Mad's dress enough in women's clothes. It's been a big week.
Guys.
You know what I feel you on like a certain level, and I feel like I can relate, not in terms of kids, but when you're working with elderly especially and in a hospital, in an emergency department, like we see a lot and a lot of stuff goes down in our rooms with a lot of patients, And at the start, there were things that would have grossed me out. Ten years later, somebody could just like do a big shit on the table and you don't even blink an eye.
You're like, oh, well, better get you back out and clean that up. Like it's just it just becomes I get what you mean, It becomes normal. But I can say, even after thirteen years an emergency I've never eaten a shit so you win, no, But it's like it's like your exposure. I mean, we talk about this in like toxic relationships. Whatever you've been exposed to on repetition, you become desensitized too. I am decent sensitized to how disgusting my children are now and how disgusting I have become
because of my children. Put it that way, I don't even know where to go from here because you've just made me vomit a little bit in my mouth. We were trying to figure out what we were going to talk about in the intro of this episode, and just so you guys know, we have a freaking awesome episode
for you today. We have been talking about doing an episode on open relationships for ages and now we are not the oracles of open relationships, like Britain and I have never experienced an open relationship because we're too fucking jealous. I'm lucky that I've even had a closed relationship after ten years of being single. BRIT's just happy to be in a relationship. Look, I had an open relationship with a couple of my exes, except I didn't realize the
time they were just sleeping with other people. Then it was open for them. So we actually we had an awesome chick on the podcast. Her name is Bianca is Melovski, and I just want to preface this conversation by saying that for starters, this is just her experience of an open relationship. She's pretty new to it as well. She's been with her partner for a year now. They have been navigating what non monogamy looks like for them, So obviously there are still lots of this conversation that she
is working at herself. But it was so interesting to sit down and talk to someone who is doing relationships fundamentally differently to what we have been taught is like the normal or the right or the traditional way to
do a relationship. And it really kind of rocked some of my own and I when I say rocked, I don't mean like it didn't make me feel uncomfortable by any means, but it really made me think about why sometimes we have this like judgment or we think like, oh I could never do that, or that's like you know, I'd get too jealous, or like that's a bit strange.
It really made me think about my own prejudice and where that comes from, my own judgments about other people's relationships and where it comes from, and this real concept of just because something doesn't suit you doesn't mean that somebody else isn't so happy in that environment and in that relationship. And yeah, I mean you guys will hear it from the conversation. Like Bianca is so in love
with her boyfriend Tiger. They are super super happy and they have a very different type of connection because they're navigating an open relationship. I was so like everything you said. I agree. I was so into this episode and I could have spoken to Bianka for so long. I had so many questions. And also she's so funny. I think you guys, I can't imagine any of you are not
going to love this episode. I just think, regardless of if you're curious about how to broach the subject of an open relationship with your partner, if you're single and just curious in general, or maybe you're really happy in a monogamous relationship, there really is something for everyone. Because Bianchor is so funny, it is so interesting and I was literally on the edge of my seat the whole time.
So I really do think you all are gonna enjoy it. Yeah, And you know what, There's actually a couple of other things in this that we touch on as well. Bianca has been sober for two years now, so we touch
on a conversation around sobriety. But the other big thing about this is we get so many questions that come in from ask on Cut about open relationships, Like I cannot tell you the amount of women and men who write to us who have contemplated what it would look like or how they would navigate opening up their relationship.
And the thing that's so interesting about Bianca's experience is that she was married before and she trialed an open relationship with her husband as a way of salvaging the relationship. And her views on that is something that was really interesting to me because I think a lot of times in the conversations and the questions that come in for us have always been around like, our sex life isn't that interesting? Maybe, you know me and my partner sex
life isn't that interesting. Maybe we should open up our relationship to satisfy that urge that we have or satisfied those needs and wants. And Bianca's experience of that and she has navigated that in her past relationship is a really interesting experience. So I'm so excited to get into this. I think you guys are going to enjoy it. But yes, Brittany, before we do, there's more things we need to cover. Well, yeah, I want to ask you something, and it's something that
I've been trying to think about myself. It was something that I read from some over in the news here in America. There was some Bachelor and Paradise American Bachelor in Paradise alumni, a couple. I don't know if you've heard of them. His name is Dean Unglert and I don't know if I'm pronouncing that right. And her name is Caylin Miller Keys. Now, she's very, very popular. You would have seen her around the media. I'd certainly have not. I am like the worst person when it comes to
anybody who is famous. I know who Brad Pitters. Oh my god, he's at the US Open final right now. He's so hot. I'm that annoying friend when people are like, hey, do you know who this actress is or actor is, And I'm like, no, I don't know it, and They're like, what do you mean It's George Clooney And I'm like I don't. I don't know who that is. Can you show George who? Can you show me a photo? It's just because like names and faces don't match up in
my mind. So yes, anyway, continue totally irrelevant to the story. No, in all honesty, I'm like that too. I've got to see somebody's face to know, Like I won't know a name, and that's the same with songs and stuff like that. Anyway, we're getting off track. What I want to ask you is this couple have come out and said that they've been together for a year or two. He cannot say the L word. He cannot say love. He refuses to say that he loves her, even though he loves her.
He's just got something against the love word. So they've come out in this interview and said, oh, yeah, we just are in a relationship where we don't say we love each other. What I want to know from you is, do you think A. Do you think this is weird? B? Could you be in a relationship if the person could never tell you they love you? Ah? So the thing is, you know they love you, and you know that you love them, but you're not allowed to tell each other.
And because he doesn't like to hear it either, so she can't say it back to him. So they have to have this relationship where they know that each other love each other because you know, you know the way you feel with each other, you know the way you act, you know the things you do for each other, but they can never say the word could you be in that relationship? Okay? Like I think that there are some very unusual factors here, and like I'm gonna say, yes,
it is a bit weird. They need therapy. There is always a counselor that you can reach out to. No, but like I'm sure there's somebody who's listening to this who hearing I love you makes them feel uncomfortable, just like compliments make people feel uncomfortable. I would really strugg if we hadn't unpacked the like what's going on? You know, Like if we had sat down had conversations around why
he feels uncomfortable using the word I love you? Like what is it about that that like it no longer kind of develops a deeper connection but actually makes him close off. I would need to better understand the why, and I think then maybe I would be okay. But I think that reassurance with being in love can come in so many different ways. There is also like, there's so many relationships where people say the word I love you over and over again, but the actions don't meet up.
And I would much rather be in a relationship with someone who struggles to say I love you but shows me every day in their actions and in other ways. And well, we all know about love languages, and if you don't, you can go listen to that episode. But I think that there are much more important ways of showing someone that they love you. And I do think that words can be super vacuous and they can almost
just be used as filler. So if my partner really struggled with the word I love you, it would be challenging for me, but it's not a deal breaker necessarily, I agree. So I don't think I could be with someone for my entire life, like marriage, kids, everything, every day and never hear I love you from them. I
don't know if I could do it. I'm pretty big on the words of affirmation and time and things like that, but and I know I'd be all right for a little while, But eternity is a long time to not hear the word I love you, and I thought this was going to be a real rarity, right. So I was talking to Jordan and some of the other boys because I always run these questions by them because I want to get I want to get a feel for it,
and I thought it was gonna be really rare. One of the guys said, oh, that my sister's like that. She's been in a relationship, she's got two kids. They don't tell each other they love each other. He's never told her and I said never, like never, and he's like, no, never, But they know that they love each other. I am wondering how common this is, so I want to I wanted to ask you, but I want to put a
little pole out as well. I want you guys to tell us if you are in a relationship now or you have been in a relationship before where you can't and you won't for whatever reason, tell each other you love each other just out of curiosity. You'll always say anonymous. But I just want to know how common it is. Do you know? It's something I think I would struggle with. And this is like a bigger thing to unpack. Obviously, not everybody has kids, and not everybody even wants kids.
But I would really struggle being with someone who can't use the words I love you, because I would kind of worry about would they be able to say it to our children? What impact does that have on children if they've never heard I love you before from their parents, because it's something that their parents struggle with. Like that would be the hardest thing for me, because I would worry that there would be some deficit in my kids and in their experience of having a loving relationship with
their parents. But I'm sure there's lots of people out there whose parents maybe weren't very verbal in the way that they said I love you, but they were really physical and really attentive in other ways showing I love you. So this almost links so perfectly into the conversation with Bianca. What works for one relationship doesn't necessarily work for another one. And just because it's weird to you or weird to us doesn't mean that that relationship isn't completely healthy and happy.
And so I think checking yourself of judgment, which is what this whole episode is about. What a perfect little tie in that you did not mean to make. None they came out and said like they came out and said, we're so happy, he's so romantic. I do all this stuff for him, he does this for me. We have so much great time. They've got a great relationship. It's got nothing to do with that. I just want to know. I just when I first read it, I was just like, maybe because for me, I reckon, I tell I'm a
very verbal, very affectionate person. I reckon, I tell Jordan I love him. And I'm not exaggerating. This isn't exaggerating. I reckon, And it'd have to be for fifty times a day, or maybe you're just a little bit more needy than most. No, but like we say it in
a way, he'll do it as well. We'll say it in a way like I'll get up off the lounge from a movie to go to and get a drink, and I'll be like, do you want anything, and He'll be like, num, right, and I'll be like, okay, love you, Katie, And then we just say love you all day and we just I'm just going to the fridge and I'm back in two minutes. I think that that's normal as well.
Like I do that with Matt too, to be honest, Like I say I love you, and that's words that have said so free flowing in our household, like I love you as said a ridiculous amount of times in a day. But do you know what I think that there's sometimes when you say I love you and you mean it on a much deeper level than like the super if you're saying I love you and you're just getting up to the fridge, Laura, I mean it when
I go to the fridge, I mean it. But what I mean is is like sometimes it can take on a more superficial meaning because in that moment, yes, of course you do love him, but you don't mean it with like a deep level of connection. You're just saying it as like the nice thing to say when you leave to remind them, whereas like there would definitely be times when you and Jordan would have more intense conversations
and that I love yous are much more meaningful. Oh you should see it when I go to the oven. I just want to get serious. Okay, guys, you know that, like we're going to get into that accidentally unfiltered, and that is your most embarrassing stories where you write them into us so we all laugh at them to get the collectively individually big old life, uncut family that we are, and we have some doozies for you today. Actually mine is so like, it's so wholesome. Okay, that's great because
mine always rank okay. So sometimes I don't know if these are actually funny or if they're just gross and I'm just a sick and that mixes the two up and here we go. Okay, guys, So I never ever cancel plans. I hate to cancel on people. A few years ago, I was so excited for a date with this guy. I really liked him. I was upset as I woke up with gastro or food poison. I'm not sure which one, but I had like hardcore, hectic, explosive diarrhea.
I thought I would be fine if I went to the toilet all day, shat it all out, and by night, maybe i'd be good to go. I just didn't want to miss this date. I felt great all afternoon, so I was like, this is all in order, The date is going ahead. We went to a really nice sinner and when he went up to go to the toilet, I desperately needed to fart. The date was going so well, so I thought I would rip a fart off now while we're gone before he got back, and holy shit,
I shat my fucking pants. I went to the toilet and I literally had to scoop out the poo. It was so gross. It wasn't a little squirt, it was a whole pooh. I thought I would be able to get through the rest of the dinner without him noticing. But a few minutes after we sat back down, he started to complain that someone nearby kept fighting and dropping bombs. I told him I fell. Oh, well, called an uber ran home. I never saw him. I can I can't.
All I want to know is, once you have had to scoop the pooh out of your pants, how did you think he was not going to notice that? How did you think you could scoop back into the dinner at a nice, romantic restaurant and him not noticed that there was shit in your pants. My mouth is open, like literally just wide open like it was the other day. I am shook. No, Okay, if this happens, you have to throw your underwear away, right, Like, that's what you do.
You run to the bathroom, you throw your nickers away. But then does it get into your pants? You cannot scoop that out. There is no amount of scooping you could ever do to have a clean enough pair of undies to go back to a date. Once you shut your paints, like girl, you got to go home. I mean, I feel like all adults have been in a situation where they've accidentally pooed themselves before, Like this has happened,
This happens to everyone. I accidentally puod myself at work once when I thought it was going to be a fart, and it certainly was not. It was a real low light in my life that No, there's been lower, there's been lower. You've told me. I'm giving you my accidentally unfiltered okay, and it's wholesome and it's nice, and we're not going to end this episode talking about shit. So I just finished a night shift this morning, and I got home and I saw an email saying that my
parssa was coming today. So I wrote a little note to my post he saying I'm sleeping after a night shift. Please don't knock pop through the side gate and leave it on the table in the fresco area, please. I've done this plenty of times before and they always do it, which is so nice to the postman. Then, being a really cold morning, I popped the heater on in my room and the electric blanket. I had a shower, so
it would be perfect to come back. So I came back in, turned the heater off, and I snuggled up under my nice warm sheets. Only I actually forgot to turn the heater off when I got into bed, so I woke up in fluffy winter pjs under three blankets with an electric heater on and the heater on sweating like crazy. So I stripped all my clothes off and went to put them in the dirty clothes basket. To have a shower. I went into the laundry, which is
on the other side of my house. And just as I threw all my clothes into the laundry basket while standing one hundred percent naked, sweaty, and just woke up from a post night shift sleep, the postman walks directly past the glass laundry door, stops for a few seconds, looks me up and down, looks me dead in the eye, and then says, do you still want me to put the parcel on the back table. She's like, no, just
give it to me, leave please. Also, I just love that she looked like she's just had wild sex, like sweaty hair, toussled or clammy and just nude making eye contact with the DHL men. What would you do? What would you do if you were the host? Do you pretend like you didn't see and just carry on or do you acknowledge I'd fiss pump it? At least one of us is getting some all right, guys, that is well and truly it from us. We are going to get into this interview with Bianca. We hope that you
enjoy this episode. We hope that it answers some of your questions around open relationships. But like we said, it's also just a little insight into one person's relationship and how they navigate open relationships, so it doesn't come with all the answers, but it's definitely very interesting. Guys. We
have such a great interview for you today. We are interviewing Biyankezmlovski and she is a comedian and actress and also a podcaster from the podcast damselnd Distress, who we have asked to join us today to share her journey, her relationship journey, and what it's like to be in a non monogamous relationship. Now, when we first talked about open relationships on Ask on Cut a couple of weeks ago, we had so many of you slide on into our dms and tell us that we had to get Bianca
onto the podcast. And now has already said that she is not the oracle on open relationships. This is just her personal experience, but we are going to be asking her all the nitty gritty, the ins and outs of what it is to be and to live in an open relationship. Bianca, Welcome to life on Cut. Yeah.
Apparently it's just not talked about enough. So I'm the go to persons. The crown is heavy upon my head before we.
Get into unpacking what it is like and how you navigate this. Do you have an embarrassing story for us?
I had to rack my brains because I'm not an embarrassing person.
But we can't all be so blessed.
Oh I don't know either. I find I've just embarrassed myself on the rag and it's hard to pick one or if I just yeah, am that unself aware? Okay, So I'm sober. I'm over two years sober.
Congratulations, I saw that.
Thank you. So this is a story that happened before that.
This is why you were two years sober off.
This is a pretty clear indication as to why I had to stop drinking. So I accidentally booty called my boss.
But was it an accident? This is the question.
Yeah, No, it absolutely was an accident. So I must have been like twenty four twenty five at the time, and I worked for a surgeon who was like well into his fifties and in a very long term relationship. Like I'm not into him. I'm not into him, there's no basis for this to happen. But I was cooking up with some guy at the time, and I was drunk at laundry bar, and I decided to booty text and booty call this guy. And I pull out my phone and I start sending the text like hey you up.
Like I don't know if I did say you up. I don't know what I said, but I remember it was like not it wasn't super a full on booty call text, but it was like ambiguity, like it could be, but it couldn't be. But the time stamp of three am is pretty clear.
That it was three am. Spoke otherwise, Yeah, exactly.
So I'm sending a message. Now, I'm quite drunk at the time, and I'm looking at the messages from before, and I see that their work related, Like I can, I can drunkenly make that out. And I remember at the time being like, why was I texting this guy about what? Like that was my thought. I'm not Oh, maybe I have the wrong number, maybe you're in the wrong message thread. No, I was just like, that's so weird, that's so random.
So how many times did you text your boss at three am in the morning or did it go from texting and progresses to calling.
I think it was a couple of texts and then I just went up the top to do the call, didn't get an answer, ended up just going home and thankfully passing out, and uh, you know, not having access to my phone because I was asleep. But then I woke up at like, you know, six in the morning, which just like dread of being like that fucking guy never text me back, Like already I was slumming it
with this guy right like he was punched. So the fact that he wouldn't get back to me was like offensive to my ego.
Why haven't you responded?
I'm a tenth yeah, exactly, like give me thanking God that I would even bother sliding into your DMS kind of thing. So yeah, then I pick up my phone to be like oh Betty, Like Betty got back to me later, you know, just to like allay my concerns. You're still hot. People want you pick up my phone. He never texted me back, and I was like, oh, did I even text him? And then I see my recent text and I realized that I've texted my boss, and I want to die. I want to crawl into
a hole. And like at that point, it was so obvious that I tried to foody text him.
So then you obviously just sent in your resignation.
Oh. I literally was like I could get fired for this, right, Like I don't know what the grounds would dismiss a lot, but this seems pretty on the money, and I just had to come clean. And I just said like, hey, that wasn't meant for you. And then like he just never texted me back for the whole day, So I was like great, And when I went into work on the Monday, thankfully, he thought it was hilarious. He told everyone about it and I didn't get fired, which was
the good thing. But the bad thing is that I did it again another time. But I think intentionally, I don't know, I can't you know what, I don't drink anymore. And that's the moral of the story.
Wait, you did it again to the same boss.
Yes, But I think I feel like that there was this some like deep seated suppressed and you didn't even realize that you had like this attachment to him, and you're like, I'm just gonna text Daddy now, and then you're like, oh shit, that's my fifty year old boss.
Yeah.
I literally think I might have daddy issues. Like That's where I'm thinking about, is there some issue in there that has some deep seated, unrooted, subconscious issue that I'm unaware of? But yeah, no, I think I did it that time. The second time sort of like as a joke, like winking at it like hah Yeah. The first time definitely an accident. The second time, I don't know. It's very wishy washy, and I that is more embarrassing.
We are so I'm speaking on behalf of law and myself, but and our listeners. We're so excited to be speaking to you today because I feel like open relationships are something that everyone is curious about. And they might not be curious in terms of they want to try it, but they're just curious as to literally, how does it work, how do you navigate this? What problems are? So we just have so many things to ask you before we
get into the questions around open relationships. Bianca, you just touched on something and I'm so interested to know the reasoning why behind it. But you mentioned that you've done two years now sober, and I think that that's such a huge thing. We don't really talk about much, like what was your reasoning for wanting to be sober? And why have you not touched a drink in two years?
You had me talk about me drunk texting my bus.
Right, Yeah, but we've all done that. Come on, we've been there. No. I think, like you know, it's a big decision to make, and loads of people have like small amounts of drinking regret. I think that it's part of our current culture that it's okay to get blind drunk and do silly things, and we all think about it as being funny, But it's not that often that you hear about people who've taken a full stance. I'm going Okay, I don't like the person I am when
I'm drinking, so I'm not going to do anymore. And I think it's interesting that we have someone and can ask like the reasoning behind that.
Yeah, totally. I didn't like the person that I was when I was drinking. I never did. I never liked her. I was fully aware of that fact that I disliked my drunk self. I hated the way I felt the next day. I regretted so many of my decisions. It really made me feel like shit. But it was also sort of like a part of my identity being this like sloppy, drunk party girl. So while I hated her, it was also sort of like who I was. And as I got older, I'd always just sort of thought
the drinking would calm down. I was like, you know, at some point, I will be like a sophisticated woman that takes a bottle of wine to a dinner party with friends, not a cask of goon to a backyard party. Like, at some point that will change, and it just it never did. If anything, it just got worse and worse
and worse. Someone my husband at the time sort of alerted me to the fact that he didn't really like my drinking, and I think once I then became aware of it and try, I had to stop it, or started realizing how much it actually was affecting me in my life. I realized that it was harder to quit than I thought, and I didn't have as much of a handle on it as I thought because I liked drinking, so I never needed to stop or needed to slow down.
But when you become aware of just how miserable it makes you, and you decide, oh, well, I'm just going to cut back. I can do that. That's easy, and then you realize that you can't. That was really hard. And I tried for about a year to moderate, and it just really kicked me down. And eventually I found a way that I could, you know, I just I had one hangover way too many. And I woke up one day and I picked up this book called This Naked Mind by Annie Grace. And I didn't go into
it thinking that I was going to stop drinking. I just thought it was going to help me maybe cut back. And I read the book within two days and I've never touched alcohol since. It just gave me the freedom. I just realized that I could actually live a happy life without it, And yeah, I will never go back. I have no intention of drinking every again. It just made me so miserable and I'm such a better person without it.
So you just never found that you did you try to monitor and like maintain your drinking and just think, oh, I'll just go and have one one tonight, did you and it just didn't work for you?
Well, yeah, it didn't work for me. The thing is like drinking heavily did not work for me, Like it made me miserable. But then when you are a drinker, sobriety is sold to us as like a really hard road that you're just like white knuckling it. And I did not want that life. I just thought that sobriety equaled misery. So I was like, that's not an option
for me. So I've got to find some middle ground, right, And so I would do these things of like I'm only going to drink two days a week, or I'm going to go out for three beers and like stop it three But that is substantially harder than just not drinking at all, because you really are monitoring. Like I would go to a party wanting to have fun, but all I'm doing is sitting there being like, well, when can I have my next dream call like don't have
too many? Or the night you'd get away from me, and then the next day I'd wake up feeling like shit, Like it never occurred to me that just like going to the party and not drinking is actually a freer way to be than having to try and monitor what you're doing. And so, yeah, it didn't work because I don't think it. I don't think it does.
So I'm so impressed by this. And we've spoken about this in a very small capacity on the podcast before, because I know in my younger years it's something that I really struggled with, Like I was a real party drinker, and as you said, it was a huge part of
my identity. I was the one that would go out get like fucking blind drunk, couldn't remember stuff, and people would be like, oh, silly, Laura, Like it was almost like a bit expected, And I guess it wasn't until I became a little bit older that I realized actually, when you're in your twenties, you can have a drinking problem.
It's not just like a fun party problem. And it was only something that I became more aware of as I kind of got into my thirties and got into a serious relationship, became a mom, and I look back on that part of my life and I go, oh wow, I had really had a problem with alcohol. So I find that a really interesting conversation, especially when there's other you know, women or people out there who have decided to take a full road of sobriety and the choices
behind doing that. We just took a totally different little side of it there. But we wanted to talk to you about open relationships. You wanted to talk to you how you navigate your relationship. We threw out the platform to our listeners and we asked, you know, whatever questions they have to ask, and I tell you there was an absolute truckload. But before we get into asking you all the questions that come from them, firstly, can you give us a little bit of information around like your history.
You said that you were married before, what was your relationship pass like and how did you get into the relationship that you're in now?
Mmmmm, yeah, that is a that's a hell of a tale. So yeah, I was married. I got married when I was twenty six, and I look back on it now. Like my ex husband, he's a lovely person, lovely person, but I definitely was getting married for the wrong reasons. I met him at a time that I was at my lowest, particularly when it came to drugs and alcohol use. He met me at a time when I really felt unlovable, and I ended up sort of just finding value in myself by being valued by someone else, and so I
just wanted to hold onto that feeling. And I guess society just makes every girl believe that they're going to grow up one day and they're going to get married and have children, and I just thought that that was my destiny. So yeah, I got married, and that's fine for some people. Absolutely. I think people think that I'm like,
at this huge crusader against marriage, but I'm not. It's just that I made that decision again when I was at a really low point in my life, and then I got sober and I realized that I became more of my own self and the woman that I am is not someone that wants to be married. I am more of an independent person. That lifestyle isn't actually something that I would choose for myself. I was sort of just like pushed into it, I guess, and so so the pandemic didn't help.
It doesn't help a lot of things, Like I think.
A pandemic really makes you realize like, holy shit, is this what I want? Like when you're trapped in a house and you have no outside distraction and it's just like this is your life, You're like, Okay, shit, I don't want this life. Yeah, my husband and I both we went through a really rough time during the pandemic in the first lockdown, then for the before the second
one started. In that break in between, we had decided that maybe we should try an open relationship because I'd always been intrigued by them, and so yeah, we did that, and that's how I met my boyfriend, and then my marriage fell apart and now I'm with my boyfriend.
So okay, there's so many questions within that story. So how long were you married for and how long into that marriage was it that you decided to start the open relationship, and then how long were you in the open relationship before you knew it had to end with your partner? Then I as a lot of questions in that, but I've just got I'm my mind is boggled. Right now.
Yeah, yeah, totally. Well, I was married for just over three years, and we actually broke up during the pandemic. We broke up like two days before my thirtieth birthday. But it was a really confusing time, and also I just wasn't sure if like breaking up with someone is such a big deal, And even though I knew it wasn't what I wanted, I also didn't want to just like throw in the towel, and so I guess my last ditch effort was, let's open up the relationship, which,
by the way, like don't do that. Don't open up your relationship to try and quote unquote say that because it's just not gonna work. You need to have a really solid foundation for it to work. So it was a misguided attempt. So we were only opened for a little while, and it was interesting. It was a good experience, I guess, to learn what not to do. But you know, like he was going on dates with some girls, like basically just walking dates actually because you know, the pandemic.
But then I met my boyfriend, my now boyfriend. I went on a date with him and the date just never ended. I left that date and I cried on my way home because I just sort of realized I could not do it. Like I realized that I had just met someone that I felt really drawn to, it felt I really needed to be with. Like, I just was so overwhelmed with emotion. But I was also so upset because I was like, oh, holy shit, I don't
know how I'm going to juggle doing both. Like, you know, I'm in this marriage that doesn't make me happy, and there is this person that I would like, I feel so drawn to. So I was just like overwhelmed with emotion. And then a week later, my husband ended things.
And how did you bring up the conversation? And I know this is a question we'll get into it more later as well, but we're here now. How do you bring up that conversation with your husband with your partner? Was it you that brought it up with the idea? Was it him? Was there any pushback at the start or did you both want the same thing?
Yeah, totally, I bought it up. I think because we did not have we weren't really sexually compatible, and I personally was really sexually repressed, and uh, it was just an issue that kept coming up in our relationship, and I just thought okay, well I could just outsource that. I was like, would I actually care if he slept with other people? And I kind of felt like, no,
I wouldn't. And also, I think now I look back on it in retrospect and I actually think that we had tried to break up and then he was like, oh, I don't want to leave you because he really felt like he needed me, and I was like, you actually don't need me, right, Like you've never just dated. You
should just get out there and date people. And I think it was sort of my way of being like, see, like, there is a whole world out there, there's a whole life out there, and just sort of trying to get him to see that so that he would realize he doesn't need me.
Yeah.
I bought it up because I had watched an episode of You Can't Ask That and it was about polyamory and I remember being like, Wow, that is so interesting. I'm so intrigued by this. This sounds great. They really sold it to me, but I just never thought I could do it because I was like, I'm too jealous. So I just, yeah, I bought it up. I was like, how would you feel about that? And we chatted at it, we sort of realized that the idea of like a
traditional marriage wasn't really for us. Again in hindsight, like just marriage wasn't for us. But yeah, we sort of realized that like that lifestyle, Like we weren't even sleeping in the same bedrooms. We'd already decided that, like we didn't like having the same bed We were like, just because we're married, why we have to sleep in the same bed So we were already not having a traditional marriage as it was. We were like, oh, yeah, let's
just do this too. We sort of just went about it that way.
When you met your partner, So your partner's name is Tiger, and that's your boyfriend now who you're in a open relationship with, and you said you met him whilst you was still married to your husband at the time. Yeah, Now, can you explain to me a little bit about how you made that sort of transition where you were like, cool, I want to be in a relationship with you. But because the foundations at the beginning of that relationship was that it was open, how did that then progress into
where you're at now? And how have you navigated the start of your relationship?
Yeah?
Yeah, yeah, like the way do I start? Now?
Well, it's interesting because when he met me, he didn't realize that my marriage was rocky, Like why would he. I wasn't going to tell him on my first date, like yeah, no, things aren't great, and I'm just doing this as a last ditch effort, Like I was like, yeah, no, you know, like because of course he asked me about it because it's on my hinge profile, like, hey, I'm married, so he asked me about it, and I was like, yeah, yeah, you know whatever, you can love more than one person.
Like I was so naive, so naive at the time about open relating, but you know I was, I was learning and so I think though when we started seeing each other, I think he had just always assumed I would want an open relationship. And I did want an open relationship because I could see the merit in it.
And I was also I'd just come out of a marriage, so I don't want to just go from like one huge relationship into another and just be stuck in monogamous Like that actually terrified me, so I didn't want to be in a closed relationship. So we started dating, but we were dating in a stage four pandemic so we were actually monogamous because the Dan Andrews government sort of made it be that way. We couldn't sleep with other people.
He cocklocked you basically, yeah, exactly.
So we were actually monogamous because we were only sleeping with one another and we were definitely catching feelings, like I was head over heels in love with this guy. But then when the state started opening up again, this is how we came about being in a relationship. I was talking to him about like I was like, oh, I'm going to get back on hinge and he was like, oh, okay, yeah cool, because we'd never had any chat about being
official or whatever. And then he slept with someone and I was so upset, like my little heart broke into pieces when he told me. But then we chatted about it, and then we sort of decided, well, you know, we should come up with some boundaries for one another if we are going to be sleeping with other people. And then but once we started coming up with boundaries, we were like, wait a second, so like, is this a
relationship then if we're making rules for one another? And yeah, that's how we sort of decided that not only would we be boyfriend and girlfriend, but we would also be in an open relationship.
So how long have you guys been dating for now?
Yeah, so we've been together over a year now, like fourteen months, and it's it's just ever evolving. Like one thing I will say about an open relationship, it makes you a really proactive and really active participant in your relationship because you constantly have to be assessing how you feel, talking about how you feel, moving boundaries, discussing your needs and your wants, and listening to your partner. Like you
have to really be proactive. It's actually exhausting, to be honest, but it's rewarding because aside from the fact that I get to sleep with other people, then he gets to sleep with other people, and we get to explore our sexuality together and separately. Aside from that, which I think everyone thinks of when they think of an open relationship, the benefits to our relationship together, like the foundations that
we have built, are amazing. Look, I think there's so much that people in monogamous relations and ships could learn from open relationships. But in a monogamous structure, you don't really have to do it as much, like you definitely should, but it's not a necessity, whereas in our relationship, like we actually have to be doing that because we would not be able to survive otherwise.
Before you was Tiger in monogamous relationships or had he always been exploring open relationships or was this a really new thing for him as well?
It was a new thing for him. It was just a new thing for him to have a relationship. Like he hadn't been with someone for close to ten years. So like when he told his friends he was seeing someone, they were just losing their minds, like what the fuck? Like who is this chick? Because you know, like he's such a lone wolf even though his name is Tiger. And yeah, so for him, I think I think everyone was sort of like a bit just blown away that
he was with someone. In general, add to the mix that it was an open relationship, I think everyone was a bit surprised because, yeah, it's not something that he's used to doing.
Bank you touched on something which was like the biggest question that came in, And we're going to jump into some of the questions that came in from listeners, but like, and I can only imagine it is the one thing that everybody asked, But how do you deal with jealousy.
Yeah, U's the number one question. Look, I will say, first of all, I understand when people are monogamous that they think of an open relationship and the first thing they think of is jealousy, and they think there's no way I could do that. And I need you to know that like I was that person too. I always was intrigued by open relationships, but I knew I was such a jealous person, and I was like, there's no way I'll ever get to a level of just being like,
so chill with my partner, sleeping with someone. Now the thing is, now that I'm in an open relationship, I see that I was looking at jealousy from a monogamous point of view, And when you're in a monogamous relationship, you experience jealousy just like you do in an open relationship. Like, jealousy doesn't just go away, it's a feeling that exists. And so I used to get jealous in a monogamous relationship.
Just watching my heart and a talk to a woman right like that would make me so jealous, but I wouldn't say anything because it seems one rather irrational to get jealous of him talking to someone and two. In a monogamous relationship, there is a fear surrounding bringing it up because if I was to say to him, it made me really jealous watching you talk to someone, which actually is not irrational. You can have that feeling like
you don't. You don't feel bad for having a feeling, but bringing it up is almost accusatory to him because he's like, well, what do you like. He's not going to be like, oh, I hear that you're jealous. He's going to be like, well, I hope you wouldn't be about Usually the reaction is, well, I'm not doing anything, I'm just talking to her. Like you don't feel supported in having that jealous reaction, so you don't want to bring it up because you don't want to see m
crazy and you. Jealousy is just never actually dealt with, So when you are dealing with that, that's how you do a jealousy in a monogamous relationship. Of course, you think there's no way I could experience an open relationship because all that jealousy would just eat me up, Whereas in my relationship and an open relationship, jealousy is not something that you're afraid of. You're not ashamed of it. You recognize it's something that's absolutely going to happen, and
it does happen, it comes up. I get jealous naturally, but I get to deal with it in a really healthy way. I get to say to my boyfriend, Hey, I'm feeling really fucking insecure right now, which is something I would never have done in a monogamous relationship because I didn't want like I was a bad bitch, right, Like I didn't have feelings and I whatever. But in real life, like, I am actually a jealous and insecure
person and that's totally okay. And I can just say that to my boyfriend and he'll hear me, and he'll support me through it, and he will put my fears to rest. And not only is it healthier for me, it's healthier for our relationship, and also it just sort of takes away the power that jealousy has. So yeah, I understand why people do immediately go to that fear of like, oh my god, jealousy, but you know, it's not something to be a shit. And I used to
get so jealous when I was monogamous. As I said, like I would get jealous at a party if my boyfriend was talking to someone and I had this like full circle moment a few months ago because I was at a party and Tiger was talking to someone, and like immediately I just had that fear of like, oh shit, like I would go over there and like put my arm around.
It to be like he's with me, claim your territory, yeah right right, like just like just so you don't get any ideas, sweetie.
Like I had that initial feeling and then I just had this like, oh, I don't have to do that, because at the end of the day, Yeah, he might want to, he might be flirting with that girl. He might right now be thinking I really want to hook up with this girl, and you know what, maybe he'll get her number and maybe he will hook up with her.
Like I don't know, but I know that I don't have to like go over there and mark my territory because I know at the end of this party he's going to talk to me and he's going to go home with me, and I can say to him, hey, it made me jealous when you were talking to that girl, and he'd be like what no, like I was just having a conversation, or he's going to say like yeah,
it's pretty attractive to her. Maybe I'll see how it goes, Like, it'll get talked about, it will be discussed, and it will put my fears to rest, rather than me just sort of like going off in a half feeling I can't talk about it, getting angry, and then just letting it bubble up in unhealthy ways later, which is what it would happen in a monogama's relationship.
God, Like, as you're talking, the questions just keep flying into my hand. I feel like I could talk to you forever. Now. Picture you at this party. You're at this party. He thinks some of the chick's hot, they're having a great time. You're mingling with someone else. I want to start getting into the rules. Is he allowed no to go home with her that night or does he If he's gone to a party with you, he leaves with you.
Yeah, that is a rule. That's one of the rules. So like, if we're together, then we're together that night. And one of the rules is like we can't cancel plans with one another for an outside partner. So if he was with me, he's not allowed to walk up with people in front of me unless we've like arranged
for that, and we're having a threesome. But you know, if he was just like at a party and flirting with a girl and then went home with her, that would be a big no no. But he would not do that because it's one of the boundaries of about relationship. But yeah, it's really important that your partner feels valued and wanted, And yeah, that would destroy me if that happened. So yeah, not gonna happen for me.
Bianca, how did you set the rules? I think this is one of the other big questions, Like the top two were jealousy and then rules. But like I listened to your podcast, you actually, if anyone who was interested and wants to know more about like the ins and outs of Bianca and Tiger's relationship, Bianca and Tiger actually did a podcast episode together, and we'll link that in
the show notes on this. But you mentioned that you originally when you first started dating and you first started this open relationship, that you had a lot of fear based rules and then you had to kind of strip those back again. Can you talk to me a little bit about what those fear based rules were and how it was completely like non constructive to like your relationship.
When we first made the rules, because we didn't really have any understanding of how we would deal with the jealousy or how we would feel later it down the track, we were just like trying to control our fears. So my thing was like, if he's going on a date with someone, I need him to message me once the date is over, like I need to be I need to know that, like I'm still in his thoughts, So I need you to text me when a date is over.
After time, you realize that that's just a fear. That's just like he's messaging me, not because he genuinely is like heybe what's up, or like I miss you. It's like, oh, I have to like write this text, and it's it just becomes more performative than anything. So we sort of realize like, that's not really a rule that we need to deal with, and as you just sort of become more secure, you sort of just realize like, oh, actually you don't have to worry about that. So that was
one of the rules. Another rule that we had, which I think is one that people always ask, is are you allowed to have sleepovers? Because people, I think think that fucking's fine, But like don't you dare sleep together? Like that's too much no pillow talk, like get the
fuck out. Actually that was a rule at first, but then we realized that it was difficult to manage because we had to have like a caveat in there that like, you know, at the time, Tiger was still drinking, so he's like, oh, like, you know what if it's like four in the morning and I'm really drunk, and I'm like, oh, well, then in that case, it's okay, And it just became
a bit messy, so that we got rid of that rule. Also, even though that is a rule, like, it's no longer a rule if I have Like so he was going to be cooking up with another couple, and he was taking a girl that he'd been sleeping with instead of me to this foursome, and the girl that he was going with lived quite far away, and I was like, I'm putting my foot down, like I just want you to know one of my boundaries is that she can't stay over at your house after the foursome is done,
because I don't want her to take my place of like coming home with you after it and debriefing with you, like that's a really private thing that I get to do with you, and that would be something I'm not comfortable with. So he heard that and was like, yep, no worries and made sure that that didn't happen. So those are just sorts of things that you know, while it's definitely not a rule, it's not doesn't mean that
that's a blanket rule. And I have no right to just say, hey, actually, maybe not this time please, because everything's up for discussion and negotiation.
So don't do you, banker, Like, I'm just so intrigued, Do you gone? Tiger's gone off with another girl to sleep with another couple, so they're having a foursome. Yeah, and the thing that bothers you the most is like that connection when they get back. So is there any jealousy of the physical side from you or is it just like, please don't please go and fuck do whatever you want, but don't form that connection, Like do you feel any jealousy knowing that he's having this I guess orgy of such?
Oh yeah, no, definitely that particular foursome. I'd actually met the other couple and we were going to do it together, but then I realized I'm not that into this actually, so I don't think I want to do it, And then he was gone to do it, but we'd already had a discussion earlier that like if I say no, is he allowed to take someone else and have that experience.
And I guess at the end of the day, like when he first said that to me, when he first asked me that, I was so upset because I was like, absolutely not, Like I don't want you having these experiences without me. I need to be that person. But at the end of the day, like that then puts pressure on me to maybe want to have foursomes that I like, you know, I don't want to have. Maybe like if he's keen and I'm not keen, but he can't have it unless it's with me, then I might want to
do it just to make him happy. That's actually going to be worse for my mental health. So it's actually better for me to just be like, you know what, you do this one, I'm not going to do this one.
And yet if you want to take someone else, by all means, because actually, at the end of the day, I do want him to have those experiences, like his sexual journey and his happiness is something that I care about, and I don't want to stand in the way the discomfort that I feel can actually be talked through and worked out, and that's fine, and I'd rather do that than live with him in any way.
I think it's really important to say as well in this that, like, we had other people who were listeners the podcast who wrote in who said that they were in open relationships. But we're in open relationships for potentially very different reasons to the reasons that you're in an open relationship. And I think that, like the rules can be different for each relationship, Like what works for you guys,
isn't necessarily what works for somebody else. And I remember there was this one woman who had written to us and she was like, I've been married for fifteen years. I'm in an open relationship, but I'm in an open relationship because sexually, like that's not what I want with my partner. I can't satiate him anymore. And the pressure to do that was too great. And now we have a great relationship because he is basically she was like,
he is serviced somewhere else. But he and I are still best friends and we have our loving relationship in that way. And so they had very different rules around us. She was like, I don't want to know what you do. So long as like you're part of this happy family unit, you can go and do whatever you want. And she could too as if she wanted to. So I think, like, from one perspective, it's interesting to hear how this has opened you up to a whole lot of new sexual experiences.
But I think it's really important that you've got those sort of boundaries and parameters around things, where you say if you don't want to do or have a force it. The whole point of having an open relationship is more so that you're not forced into doing things that you don't want to do and the other person can still
have those experiences the ankle. One of the big questions that we had as well, is is there ever And I know that a lot of these conversations come back to fear, But is there ever a fear of Tiger falling in love with somebody else, of actually developing that connection? And you know, I think that sometimes when we do have the physical, sometimes the emotional comes with it without our intention behind it. You know, is there ever a
fear that he will develop that for somebody else? Or that you will develop that for somebody else.
Oh yeah, yeah, that is a natural fear to have. But first of all, I think I think we forget, particularly when we are monogamous, We forget just how shit it is dating, Like we forget just how many more dud dates you go on, Like there's more people out there that are not going to be a great match for so the chances are quite slim.
You're like, I feel confident. I know what's what Fisher left in the sea. I feel confident.
Yeah, exactly, Like, but at the same time, like, not only so, not only would someone have to like tick a whole bunch of boxes, they would also have to be so much better in the sense of like the connection that he and I have and the connection that we have because we've been building this relationship is out of control. So I don't really see someone coming in
and knocking that off. Like I know it's ironic because that's how I met Tiger, But at that time, that was a last ditch effort to save quote unquote a relationship that I was no longer really invested in. So I'm actually invested in this relationship. He's invested in this relationship. We love each other very deeply, and we're so open with each other, like no one on this earth knows me like he knows me, and I would say the
same about him. So I think, like for someone to come in and threaten that, that would be really hard, really hard for them to do. It's a tall order, Babe.
I love that. I love the confidence. I want to pause on that for a second and just go back, just back to the foursome. When you're organizing a foursome, when you're trying to look for that, how do you do that? Is there? Do you just go on to Hinge and say, I'm looking for another couple or is there an app that's dedicated to this kind of a thing, or just for just out of interest sake and for people out there that are looking to explore that with their relationship.
This is not like my thing either. I need everyone to know that. Like I was so sexually repressed, and I actually think that like open relationships helped me in this way because I had been in quite long term relationships and yeah, when you're in a monogamous relationship, I used to like guilt myself just for finding someone else attractive. And I would say to people like no, And again as to my husband, h which was a lie because
you're attracted to other people. You might see someone and you see that they're attractive, but I would shame and guilt myself just for having the fucking thought, so I would close off. I would put my blinders on and just like repress my own sexuality. Also, though, I wasn't really sexually satisfied in my marriage because my husband and I weren't really sexually compatible, so I was just like
completely closed off. I also drank a lot, and alcohol was really the only way that I could have sex, so I was like not sexually satisfied at all, and I literally had closed off almost every sexual part of my being just to survive. So for me to be having foursomes, that's fucking crazy to me. Okay, because, like to I was so sexually repressed that I've now discovered
that I'm bisexual, which is mind blowing to me. So it is actually crazy to me that I'm having these sexual experiences because before I could barely struggle to make out with someone on a couch while I was sober, like that was a struggle for me. So yeah, it is crazy to me. But It's great because I get to unleash and feel this sexual power inside of me. And I think it also really helps that I have my partner there with me. Yes, there is an app
dedicated specifically to the things. It's called field Feld, and that is a dating app where you can sign up and you can go as a single person, or you can sign up and have your profile match to your partner. And I will say though, that having those experiences and being able to go with someone that I love, in care and trust so much has made it easier for me to do. If I was just a solo gal out in the world, there is no way in hell I would be rocking up to a foursome Like that's
terrifying to me. I mean it's terrifying to me as it is, like they're fun and I really enjoy group sex and I've really started to enjoy that part of myself and it's really nice getting to learn this new aspect of myself. I guess, but I would never have done that before. Like it blows my mind and I'm the one doing it, so yeah, I totally care where you're coming from.
You said that getting into an open relationship was part of what has like opened you up sexually and it's kind of changed your I guess it's fully changed your perception around sex and around relationships. But you also just mentioned that you more recently discovered that you're bisexual. How has this come about from? Has this been a result of being an open relationship? Has this been a result of being with your partner Tiger?
Like, I really didn't think that I was good at sex, Like I just didn't think I was, particularly because I had been a drinker, so like I would need to drink in order to feel uninhibited to have sex. But then I would end up having pretty bad sex because it would be sluppy. And also when you drink, it really limits your capacity to orgasm, So I was not super sad as bad. And then on top of that, I would wake up the next day. I mean, when you wake up after a night of drinking, you have
that anxiety. You're already dealing with a lot of shame. So add to the mix that I would almost only ever sleep with people when I was drinking. I would wake up not knowing who had been in my body, like feeling so shamed, like I was just there was just so much shame around sex for me, and also like I'm a woman, so naturally I'm just shamed for everything that day do under set And so when I met Tiger was the first time I'd really had sober sex with a new person. It was the first time
I'd had really incredible, like soul opening sex. And he really helped me, I guess, in making safe, comfortable environments for me to be able to explore my sexuality. And did start having threesomes with him and other women, and it was enjoyable, but I never really like was like, oh, you know, I guess I'm somewhere on the bisexual spectrum. I guess, so like for me, I was like, even though I was sleeping with women, I was still like,
I wouldn't call myself bisexual. But I guess over time, I've started to recognize sexual energy inside of me, and it's such a magical part of ourselves and it's such a shame that so many women close it down and don't access that part of you. But I can actually feel the difference in myself. I can feel my sexual
energy and I'm no longer afraid of it. I'm no longer ashamed of it, and it has led me to experience some incredible sexual experiences with women, and yeah, it's made me realize that I'm so into that and now understand that I'm bisexual, which is crazy because I didn't even think I liked sex before.
So let's jump into what I think is probably the most interesting part. Obviously, this is going to be different for every person and every couple. What are the rules basically that work for you? Guys? What have you decided is your set of rules is going to keep a really healthy, open relationship.
Yeah, so first rule is we have to tell each other everything. So if he was to hook up with someone and not tell me about it, then I would consider that cheating. So yeah, that's a rule. Another rule obviously, save sex, that's a given. No hooking up with each other's friends.
That's a solid rule.
Yeah, that is a rule. Like, I definitely have some friends that like they'll like flirt with the idea. I think your friends are the ones that actually think that we would be so chill with them hooking up with us. That makes sense, Like I think his friends might be like a little flirty, and my friends might be like a little flirty with him because they just think, like, oh, it's an open relationship. You guys are called and I'm like, no, you can't fuck him, okay the back off. Yeah, he's
literally anyone else can except for you, bitch. No, Like, I actually have some friends that I wouldn't mind. I'm like, I actually wouldn't mind if he slept with them. But then there are some friends where I'm like, I don't know about you, so uh yeah, just to make it easier, no friends. Another thing is yeah, no canceling plans with one another for another partner. And what is the other rule? Oh yeah, if we're together, then we're together. No hooking
up with people right in front of one another. So that's about it on the rule front.
At this point in time, when you guys do go and you're with somebody else, do you I know you said you want to tell each other. To what level do you tell each other? Is there one of you that wants to know more information than the other or is it like not spoken of, Hey, I hooked up with someone last night, just so you know, and that's it. Like what level of depth you go into?
Well, it's interesting because I don't need much detail, Like for me, I'll be on edge, like if he's gone out or like he's going on a date. I'll be on edge until he tells me like yes, lot with them, and then all of a sudden, all of my fears just like it's like this chill over my body and I'm like, okay, yeah, dope, Like I never ask any details, you know, Like he mentioned a detail the other day and I was like, WHOA, that is confronting. I did
not like WHOA, Like that what the fuck? And he was like yeah, like don't you want to know more? And I was like I don't need to, like I don't need to know more, Like fucking no. Because I think what I've realized is that for me, I'm okay with him sleeping with other people because I know that
the sexual relationship we have is fucking incredible. I know that the sex we have is really beautiful, and I love getting to share sex with him once we've been with other people, like it's so nice to reconnect with him. So I guess for me, my fear is when I don't know that he slept with someone, I feel out of the loop, and that's where I'm insecure. When he tells me, hey, I slept with this person, I realize again, like, Okay,
I'm his person. I'm the one he's telling this too, Like, yeah, he may have slept with someone else, but I'm the person that he shares that with, so that allays my fears enough. I don't really need to go into details
about the sexual acts they got up to. It doesn't really phaze me because at the end of the day, I know that the sex I share with him is pretty damn good, so I don't I don't want to hear about it, Whereas the other way, he wants as much detail as possible because I think for him, he just wants to know all of the facts and once he has everything and there's no shadow of a doubt and he's got all of the information, then he can feel more at peace. So we're both very different.
We talked about this a little bit before we actually hit record, and I want you to share this with everyone as well, But like, what happens and what's the long term plan for an open relationship? You said something really interesting, which was this concept of like, you can open and close a relationship as many times as you want.
And I think that, like for a lot of people, the idea of getting into an open relationship might sound appealing, but then like where does that open relationship lead to? Where do you guys foresee yourself and where is your relationship heading?
I think like so many people think that, oh, like open relationships is cool and everything, but when you settle down, like you'll settle down at some point, like you're not going to be open forever. But we're sort of like, well, we've gone through the really hard parts, like we've worked towards this, Like if anything, the more we do it,
the easier it becomes. So I don't foresee that like we would just be like, well we're closed off now, like you know, like for us, seriousness doesn't equal monogamy, and monogamy doesn't equal seriousness. Also, there is like a part of me that does worry, like, oh god, you know, I'm so public about this and so many people ask me about it that like I don't want to become like the poster child for open relationships. And then if I was to decide that I don't like doing it anymore,
that would be like me renagging and whatever. Like, but you know, there have been times that I've closed the relationship up because I've been not able to cope, like mentally or whatever. And I'm like, I just can't deal with this right now. So for this week, can we like we're closed off, Like it's just closed and that's fine.
Just don't fuck anyone. It's closed.
Yeah, you can't do that this week again, you can just open up and close. But I think for the long term, I mean, I don't want to speak for him, but I think we're pretty in this for the long haul with one another. And I do think that we've worked really hard to get to where we are, and honestly, there is still so much more to go, Like, I have so much more to learn, and I'm still not
one hundred percent secure. Of course, I don't know that anyone is, even if they're in a monogamous relationship or not. I don't think anyone's one hundred percent secure. So I still have a lot of work to go and I'm enjoying the journey and I want to keep doing it with him, and I'm pretty sure he wants to keep doing it with me, so I think we'll just yeah, keep I mean, for me, after being married, I've realized a few things. I've realized that I never want to
live with a partner full time again. That alone, in and of itself, I think people think is crazy. I think people think, well, at some point you'll settle down and you'll live together, but I'm like, that's just not in my future. So I think that for me, I'm probably not going to have a quote unquote traditional relationship. Ever, I think for me it's yeah, it's it's all up
for debate. Everything can be chopped and changed. I think the like I genuinely, when I think about closing it, I feel unwell, yeah, like I love him so much and I want to be with him, but I think after having all of that freedom, to have that taken away actually just feels like a like bird getting caged. Like it really does feel so limiting. So I don't see it happening anytime soon. But yeah, I'm sure that people are just intrigued by it. And also I get
hit on a lot by listeners, which is great. My oh, there's just like a dating pool right there in my damn's dope.
But this is also because I know that when you say, like, you don't want to be the post a child for this, but I think because so many people don't talk about it, and like there's a woman who I follow on Instagram. Her name's Totally. She's from the UK. She was married for quite a long time. Same thing opened up her relationship, but it worked for her and her husband and they've
been together having a very happy, open relationship. And she came up publicly and spoke about it, and she then went onto her Instagram and she was saying, like, you know the amount of trolling that she had received from people, because it threatens our idea of what is a normal relationship. And when I say no normally, I mean like quote
unquote normal. We live in a society that's very monogamous centric, like that's where we feel safe, and these sort of like polyamorous or open relationships threaten our idea and threaten our normalcy around what a relationship should be. And I think for a lot of people who have been in long term marriages, it's almost like their greatest fear realized that maybe their partner might want to be with somebody else.
And that was the way that she described it. She was like, I have received so much trolling from people who don't think that my relationship could possibly work, that I must be miserable, that we must not love each other or that we're not enough for each other because
people can't necessarily see that different is also okay? Did you find it challenging at the start when you told your family, I mean, going from being in a very monogamous like married relationship to sharing with your friends and your family and your external community and also having a public profile just sharing it with your following. Was that daunting? Did you get backlash? What was that experience?
Like it was difficult? I think for the most part, I'm actually kind of used to it because like being a sober person, I know that people's immediate reaction when I'm like, hey, I'm sober, their immediate thing is I could never do that, or like or I only have like a couple of drinks a week, Like I only do this, And so I'm kind of used to already
not being the quote unquote norm. And I know that the things that I do do challenge people's fears, like it makes them think and I don't agree with this, but I think people see that and they think I couldn't do that, So therefore it alerts a fear in them, and they are just like, well, like to tear it down. I have to poke holes in that because I don't think I could do it. I don't want them to think that they're better than me. I feel that they're better than me, so I'm going to just tear it down.
So I totally understand that. And yeah, I've already dealt with it with sobriety, so like I guess I was kind of just used to it with open relationships, but I haven't really received much backlash, more just people being confused and people just saying, yeah, I don't get it, I don't get it. I don't get it, but I will say I too have struggled. Like I've also grown up in a monogamous centric world, so there are times where I have been like having to check myself and
be like, this relationship is valid. I know how it feels, I know how much I love him, I know what he means to me. But of course I even have those feelings of like this is crazy. Do I really love him if I'm sleeping with other people? Like one hundred percent? I have those fears, and I understand them and why other people have it because they're not even experiencing the love and commitment and feelings of love that
we have for one another. So I totally see how to an outside person it would feel that way.
The way that this conversation came up originally was we had someone write in an ask on cut section and we were like, we can't give advice on this because we've not we don't have a lived experience on this. And the big question was this person was in a long term relationship they wanted to broach the conversation of
maybe opening up the relationship. I want to throw the floor to you, like, for somebody who is in a long term relationship and they want to open up their relationship, now, how would you give advice on that or what do you think would be the best steps? I mean, I know that you said that you have done it and it was really difficult, but what do you think could be a better way of maybe tackling Matt Well?
There are definitely books that you can read. So the ethical slut is sort of considered the bible of non monogamy, but there is another one. I just can't think of the name.
Ethical slut. What a great name.
Yeah, ethical slut, So that's a good one. I think what you have to realize, like you have to have a conversation with your partner. Absolutely. I think you also have to realize before you even brought it to that subject, what are you hoping to get out of it? What needs are you not getting met that you want to
be met. Because when you just come to your partner and say I want to open up our relationship, naturally, their fear is immediately like, ah, I'm not good enough, you don't want to be with me, I'm not sexually satisfying you, Like you know, you're just flooded with jealousy
and insecurity. But if you were to go to your partner and be like, hey, I specifically want this sexual need, or I've realized that maybe I want to indulge my bisexual side, or you know what, Like I kind of am into BDSM and I know that you don't like that, so I want to try that, Like, come up with what you want, what need is not getting met, and why you want to do it, and be really gentle
and supportive with your partner. That's the first thing I would say, because yeah, I mean, it's it's natural to just like freak the fuck out when someone says I want to sleep with other people, So that would be the first thing.
So coming with an objective, a solid objective.
Yeah, exactly, a solid objective. And also just like remind them of the fact that you're with them, like you know that it doesn't you don't want it to threaten your relationship. But also like just be prepared because it
is a fucking it's so hard. Like I'm not gonna lie, it's there's a lot of work because there's not just the fact that you're like trying to handle this new form of relationship, but you're also going to deal with so much programming in your own head regarding relationships already, because we might even if you are intrigued by an open relationship, there's no doubt that we are just like force fed monogamy so much like it's really hard to undo that. I've actually found that to be like one
of the biggest challenges. Yeah, there's just so much work that goes into it. Also, just be like open to the fact that like you can ask a partner and at any time either you have the option to revoke the openness, because that is a really important thing. I don't think people people are afraid maybe that like if we open it up, then it's open and I don't like it, and I don't want to be able to say it. You have to be open to like stating
your boundaries. I used to be such like a cool chick that like never wanted to tell someone that they'd hurt me. Not anymore. Now I'm like, I'm insecure, I'm feeling jealous. I need this, I want this. This is how I want you to treat me. Get used to being really open with your feelings and how you're feeling and telling someone that because there's no hiding how you feel, You've got to be really open and in touch with your own emotions.
Are you able to see the same person multiple times? Is this a rule for you? Like? When is the limit of you starting to form this other sort of relationship with someone else?
Yeah? Totally. That is one of the most asked questions. Actually, yeah, Like is there a limit? Can you only sleep with someone once? No, there is no limit. Interestingly, I think we all know just how fucking hard it is to find good sex sometimes and how annoying hinge conversations are, and how much tedious work goes into just getting on the first date, let alone having sex with someone. So no, there isn't a limit. We just are so open and
honest about how we're feeling. So I was sort of seeing someone I was dating a girl, and I was developing feelings for her, and that was new territory for us, and we were sort of working through it, and I definitely handled some things shittily, And it's really trial and error, that's the thing. It's about, like figuring out because I'm learning how to first of all, just to date women, but also doing it while having a boyfriend, and then learning how to maybe have feelings for two people at
the same time. Like I'm struggling, I'm trying to keep my head above water as well. So there's just like so much at play. But I guess at the end of the day, like having respect for your relationship and love for your partner is the most important thing.
Thank you so much for being one so vulnerable, so open and sharing literally like the deepest darkest corners of your soul and your relationship to us. We are so grateful and so appreciative, and it is so interesting to speak to somebody who is challenging our very traditional views of what monogamy and what a happy relationship can be.
And for anyone who's listening to this, and for anybody who has felt maybe like you know, or I couldn't do that, or maybe they've felt uncomfortable or judgey, like I think it's easy to feel judging of somebody else's relationship when we don't understand it. I just want to, like maybe preface, like to take a moment to think
about where those feelings come from. And you know, just because something doesn't necessarily work for you doesn't mean that somebody else isn't completely happy and in a really safe space. And so I'm really grateful for you to share your story, Bianca. And also we know that you have your comedy show just can't be tamed coming to fringe festivals or a comedy show across Australia. When is that happening since everybody is now in lockdown.
Yeah, look, it was meant to be happening in two weeks, but that's not happening, so like TBD at this point. But I'm planning on going to Adelaide fringe. I think that'll be the first one I can get to at this point, like fingers crossed, Like if everyone gets a vaccine, then like maybe we'll be out of here. But yeah, Can't Be Tamed will be coming to a fringe festival or comedy festival near you at some point.
Can you please tell everybody where they can find you and how they can follow you if they want to find out any more about you, your relationships, your comedy and everything else that you put out into the world.
Yeah. Sure, you can follow me on Instagram at Bianca is Malovsky and Bianca is spelt with a K instead of a C because fancy my mum's like Chris Jenner, just throws in a K where a C will suffice. And yeah, that's where you'll find everything on me and your podcast. Oh yeah, you know, I forget about it.
My podcast is called Damsel Undistressed. I originally started it as you know, my journey post divorce, but it's sort of just turned into being this podcast about challenging society's norms on relationships and dating and being a woman.
Thank you. You are an absolute legend. Thank you so much for giving us your time today and your wonderful wisdom, and we wish you nothing but the best in the best sex possible in your wonderful relationship. Thank you for coming on life I'm cut.
Thank you for having me.
You know, we don't end an episode without our sucking our suite, our highlight and our lowlight. The best and the worst thing to happen to us in this week, and Laura, can you kick start it for us today? I am just heading like headfirst with full excitement and enthusiasm towards Freedom Day. But my highlight of this week is that on Saturday night, Matt and I ordered China Diner. We got like fancy takeaway, we got a bottle of jalapeno mugger eaters, and we just got a bit tipsy
together and had a great, great night. Cute. It's very cute. We stayed up, we talked, stayed up to like nine thirty pm. It was it was wild. We talked about the kids. Oh my god, it was crazy. No, but like, we spend so much time together, but sometimes it's not quality time. So it was really nice to just like have I don't know, like have like a couple of drinks and feel young again. Yeah, so that was my Saturday night. I love that for you, and I'm happy.
But I also love the fact that we've now been doing this podcast for over two years. We have one rule that suck goes first, and every week you're still throwing me the sweet first. Oh, I always forget whatever, Like you know what, I'm here to break rules, like no one cares, no one's keeping tabs. Okay, my suck is such a bad us Yeah, real, real, crazy, real breaker over here with my spicy Jilipino margeratas. I was just really excited to tell you about them. It's the
best thing that's happened to me all week. No, I'm stoked. It sounds like a good night It really was. And also like the weather has just gotten so good. So even though we're in this perpetual lockdown, we are very very fortunate in the fact that, like it's not winter, even just having like a nice sunny day is such a moodlifting experience that this weekend has just felt so much better than the last couple of weeks that we've had. Yeah, yay, love that for us. So and then my suck for
the week. My suck for the week is something that I've spoken about loads, but it's just still happening. I'm really struggling with Lola's sleep again, like she's she's kind of had another sleep regression. She got really good for a little while there and was only waking up like twice during the night, which is still not great, but
it was a lot better than what it was. And now she is back to waking up like six seven times a night, and it's just we're in a bit of a tricky situation at the moment because she is seven months old, but we live in a two bedroom apartment and so she's still next to us in the bassinette in the bedroom and I can't transfer her into her own cot or into her own room because there physically isn't a room. We don't even have a study,
like it's actually quite a small apartment. So yeah, at the moment, we just have to kind of keep on doing this nighttime juggle with the kids until we can kind of find somewhere a bit bigger to live. And lockdown's making it really hard to find accommodation, and so that's just been like an ongoing battle of the last couple of months. Totally. Yeah, it really was exasperated this week. I mean, like I don't, I can't even relate, just
I can't. You actually can't, Like I remember the days before I had kids, where I slept through an entire night and what that felt like. It is wild to think back on those times in my life. But yeah, I don't think I've slept a solid night without waking up in almost a year and a half. I feel like mums say that for like the first ten years, don't they. Yeah, I hate to break it due, but like, thanks God, they are so far off seven a half more years to go, let's do this. My second suite
are actually just really simple and easy ones. My suck for this week is that it's hurricane season over here, So that's great. It just means there are a lot of hurricanes, there's a lot of rain, there's a lot of wild weather, there's a lot of power outages. So that's definitely the suck. My sweet was, you know what. It's so simple, but Jordan is so competitive and he's actually one of those people that's really good at everything that he does. But he has beat me at everything
that we done. We play minigolf sometimes twice a day. We've been playing minigolf NonStop and I've never beat him, and I beat him for the first time yesterday, and that is my sweet because it is like a monumental feat to beat him at anything. So that was my sweet of the week. It's cute, it's small, it's nothing, but it made me very happy. It's all about the small little things that kind of you know, contribute to the second suite. But I can actually hear the thunder happening. Now,
can anybody else hear that? Okay, so that's yeah, if you guys can hear that. Sorry, that's just started. But like I said, it's hurricane season and it is. It is hectic. It's crazy outside. It usually comes in the afternoons in the evenings and it's six forty eight pm here and it's just rolling in. It's gonna get insane. Button down the hatches, guys. That is it from us. Thank you to everybody who's listened to the EP. We hope that you guys enjoyed this discussion around open relationships
and hearing about Bianca's very unique experience with this. And if you guys have any questions for askur Cut, which is on Thursday, you know that you can slide into our dms at Life Uncut Podcasts. Also, you can join in the conversation on Facebook on our discussion group which is his Life on Cut discussion group and I'd better get out of here because I feel like the RUF
is about to blow off. So you guys know that you will tell your mom, tay, Dad toe you talk Wow, tell your mom, tell you Dad, tell you dot to your friends and share the love because we love love