Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We pay our respect to their elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander peoples today.
This episode is recorded on Gaddigal Land of the Aurora Nation. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Laura and I'm Brittany. And Brittany, well, we have a very very interesting episode for you guys today. There is something I wanted to ask you first, britt I don't know. I'm giggling like a nervous school.
Girl because you always bring me with these like I've got something I want to know and I'm always like, I don't know where to go with it.
Well, it's because it's got to do with dating. So I want your opinion.
Is it what not to do? Because I can tell you that.
You're like, I've got ten years of experience of what not to do with dating? Always too fucking soon, don't ask me how to do it. No, I was having this conversation on the weekend, who needed some dating advice, and I gave my dating advice, to which she told me it was fucking wrong.
So that's why.
So she asked you for the advice. You gave your best response. Then she was like thank you.
Now she looked at me like you have clearly been out of the dating game for so long that you can you phone a friend?
Can your phone break? Your advice is irrelevant? What was it?
She's been dating someone for about four weeks, right, casually dating but really likes them.
How many times a week?
What's the average? I think like two? Well it started off like one or two. Now it's gone up to about three times a week that they're seeing each other.
Okay, maybe eleven times. I'm just trying. I'm just trying to get a hit around my head.
Around eleven times they've had sex, Like things are progressing, she really likes him, but there has been no conversation about what they are. And she said, like, what is the appropriate time frame? Like how many weeks go past before you should bring up like what are we?
Are?
We exclusive? Where is this heading?
And I was like, now one month, Like you are so deep in that that if you're feeling it already, you might as well, have the conversation, and she looked at me like I had been drinking the kool aid.
I think this is very subjective because I'm going to say something and I can't believe I'm gonna say this. You gave me different advice recently, so I was I've dated one person.
Yeah, that was because I didn't think you should date him.
That was why the advice was, don't make it exclusive. It had nothing to do with time frame. It more had to do with situation I had.
Yeah, let me say I had dated someone, only one person, you know, since my breakup, and we were only probably four weeks into very casually dating and he got the feels great.
Laura was like, no, it's only been a month. It's too soon.
I'm not feeling this. It's like it's all hectic. You got to play like not you got to play a cool but it's like too much, too soon. But if you loved him or the situation, you would have been exactly that. You would have said, yeah, a month's great, go for it, get into it. But it's because you didn't like us.
No, okay, yes, on one hand, you have a point, but on the other hand, my thing is not so much about like making it exclusive. You don't have to at the one month mark be like, hey, are you my boyfriend? Are we going to be boyfriend and girlfriend? More so just around like what is this? What do you want out of this? And having like an if you haven't had that conversation by the month mark, what are you afraid of? Are you afraid that they're going
to say I don't want anything. This is just super casual and it's not going anywhere, in which case you then would have to make the decision as to whether you want to keep seeing them or not. I think by the one month mark of like hanging out, going on a few dates, getting to know a person, if you want something that's exclusive, if you want it to go in that direction, then that's probably about the time that you have to like put on your big girl panties and say where do you think this is heading?
Because I would like this to be a little bit less ambiguous.
Yes, but I think it's I don't think there's a timeframe, Okay, and I really really don't And I know if this isn't the advice anyone needs, But when I was with Jordan, we said we loved each other after a month, like we were just obsessed. I have dated other people for six months. They've said to me, what are we And I'm like, well, it depends on the person, the vibe and what you guys want.
Are you both in the same place?
The only way she can know is surely, And in most of the situations there is a bit of a vibe, Like you know, you get a reading from the other person and what they're looking for. Are they still going out and haven't mentioned anything? Are they still on dating apps? You are one hundred percent entitled to ask what we are and if you want to, I encourage you to. You just have to be prepared for whatever the answer is, totally.
And I think that that's the good thing though, right Like, even if it's an answer that you don't want, at least then you know what you're in for and you can make a decision. My reason for this is because like, you could spend a year seeing someone thinking that you're heading in the right direction and then them being turning around saying, no, we're just keeping it casual and keeping
my options open until something better comes along. You could go so far down a situationship that you're entrenched in the situationship and then you only have yourself to blame because you didn't have the chat at four weeks. But I think it's also imperative that you do it in the right way. There's a big difference with being like, Yo, let's lock this shit down. I want to marry you for four kids, white picket fens, two dogs, four to Colie sheep dogs.
Like there is a way.
You can do it, be my boyfriend, yeah, or you can just say hey, can I just ask are you so we're on the same page?
Are you still seeing other people? Do you want to see other people?
I think it's just has to be in a really casual cloak your way, because it'll start the conbo. He's going to ask you back, then you're gonna say, well, to be honest, I haven't seen anyone. I don't really want to. I'm pretty invested to see where this goes form. That was a good one, said, to see where this goes is played cool girl vibes.
No, just don't play psycho vibes. I'm not very cool, but I know how to knob his.
I mean I did till Matt after a month of dating, whilst he was dating multiple other women that I loved him, even wanted to be with him for the rest of my life.
So you know, sometimes it works out that way as well.
I mean, that's a whole different httle of fish. That's a different world. But okay, good luck everyone that's in that situation. I do not envie you.
We have some pretty big things we want to talk about in today's episode. Now, I kind of we didn't really know where to start with this, but I guess the first thing.
Let's start with the first thing. It's always a good place to start. It's good to start at the beginning.
We want to talk about Rebel Wilson, Rebel Wilson being Britney's very good friend, but also the fact that she made huge headlines over the weekend when she came out with her new relationship.
So we're going to unpack that.
We're also going to unpack some very interesting articles that came off the back of it, and we have.
A lot of feelings about this.
But then we're also going to get into today's big topic, which is around toxic masculinity. And we got the opportunity to interview Will McMahon, who some of you guys might know from Will and Woody. Last week Britain, I sat down with Will and we had a very vulnerable conversation where everybody cried.
You may hell may not have seen it. That's okay if you didn't.
If you didn't see it, you could all jump on Instagram because both of us crying is on Instagram at the moment. It's a conversation around vulnerability. But more importantly, we talked with Will around toxic masculinity and his experience with depression. That is something that we're going to get into. First break, Let's talk about Rebel Wilson.
Yes, And I want to make it very clear here before we jump into this. Some of you may know, those of you that in you and don't know. Rebel is a really good friend of mine. We've been friends for.
A while now.
I love her, respect her. She's an incredible woman, and I don't want this to be a chat about Rebel. I want this to be a chat about what has happened off the back of Rebel's relationship announcement.
Really want to drive that home.
I feel like we'd be having this conversation regardless a few days ago on Friday, which whenever you're listening to this that was the tenth of June, Rebel came out and announced a beautiful new relationship. She's very happy, She's in love. She put a photo of her and her new partner, Ramona I on Instagram and she said, I thought I was searching for a Disney Prince.
Maybe what I really needed all this time was a Neat princess. Hashtag love is love.
I actually get emotional thinking about it because I'm just like, we love love. I love love love, and of course, of course being good friends with Rebel, this is something I've you know, I've got along the journey with her, and I've known.
You crying, yeah, because I just think I just this.
Made me really mad and upset, and I would have these feelings for anyone in this situation because it just must be really, really tough. And to see her post something just be like, you know what here I am. I'm so happy I'm in a stable, healthy, loving relationship makes me feel warm in ise.
And I guess the thing is is that you personally have known, yes, that Rebel was in this relationship for a lot longer than just since Friday last week.
Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like I said, I was there when they're not there physically, she's she's like, she's filled me in on the details from the get go. So what has happened is and what has made us mad? If nobody knows, we're going to explain what happened. She came out on Friday and everyone was so happy for her that when there was nothing negative written, then the Sydney Morning Herald released.
An article that we want to talk to you about.
And this is the main thing we want to talk about. Like we're very, very stoked for Rebel. We love love, but this is the thing that really made us fucking mad.
It was on the eleventh of the sixth, so Rebel announced on the tenth. This article from the Cidney Morning Herald came out in the eleventh. The heading is Rebel starts spreading news of her relationship coming out Rebel style.
Now, Laura tell.
Us a little bit about why this is so problematic, because I am so mad, Like I would be mad reading this about anyone, but when it's a friend and someone you know as well, there's a level of respect and fierce protection for anyone in your life, family or friends. And I think when you see somebody be attacked on a private level, let alone a public level.
It just I'm just I'm so infuriated.
So I want you to explain it a little bit so I can just take a breeze.
Okay.
So the article that was written, it's from a journalist named Andrew Hornery. It was published in the Sydney Morning Herald. As Britt said on the eleventh, and now what this article is essentially claiming is that the journalist Andrew knew that Rebel Wilson was in a same sex relationship. They actually contacted Rebel two days prior and had said, we know that you are in a relationship with Ramona Agruma.
We're giving you two days opportunity to give us a statement, you know, reply to this with your own comments because we're going to run a story. And what Rebel actually did is instead of giving her comments to the Sydney Morning Herald, who had reached out to her PR team, Rebel ended up going public with her relationship herself on Instagram, as we saw with the beautiful post that she put up. Now, this article that's been written by this journalist is all
around the fact that he has but hurt. Basically that she took the opportunity she took the exclusive away from The Sydney Morning Herald, that they had done the research, that they had that scoop, and that instead of them being able to be the ones to release the news, she got in and did it first. This is one
of the quotes from the actual article. It was an abundance of caution and respect that this media outlet emailed Rebel Wilson's representatives on Thursday morning, giving her two days to comment on her new relationship with a woman La leisureware designer Ramona Agruma before publishing a single word. Mister Hornery then argued that if he had outed the actress, it shouldn't have been a big deal, as sexual orientation is no longer something to be hidden even in Hollywood.
The absolute irony of this article and also social media. Other news reporters are up in arms about this. But the irony is is that Andrew Hornery is saying that, look, you being in a same sex relationship shouldn't be a big deal, So why did you have to go ahead
and take that exclusive away from us? But we all know that we don't live in a perfect world, and in this world, for some reason, when somebody has identified as heterosexual for such a long time and then they come out as a same sex or in a same sex relationship. That creates so much engagement, that gets so many clicks. That is a huge fucking headline for some reason, but it is, and headlines and engagement are a currency.
He is very aware that he had what.
Was potentially one of the biggest scoops of his career been taken off him, and this entire article is trying to claw back and say, hey, we knew about this first before she put out her own statement.
Well, he described it as a big mistake of giving Rebel the opportunity to comment for the two days that he did. He said it was a big mistake, and he said she chose.
To gazump the story. Now gazump, Well, who even are you, Andrew? For starters, I've.
XuMP the story and choosing to come out herself on social media quote, her choice to ignore our discreet, genuine and honest queries was in our view, underwhelming. Now, Andrew, I have a view myself, you, sir, are underwhelming. In twenty twenty two, fancy getting mad at somebody for choosing to tell their own story about their relationship on their own social media and you have the audacity, sir, to write an angry article saying, who do you think you are to have told your own story?
Andrew Hornery, we are dedicating this episode to you. But also, can I just mention the word gazumbed, which I think we all had a giggle at when we first read it.
I do.
I also think that that attributes to just how archaic this journalist is, Like who uses the word gazumped in the first place. There is such a warped perspective as to who owns a story, and I think that's what Rebel has been robbed of. She took the opportunity to say she was essentially forced to come out with her own sexuality, and we don't know where she sits in terms of like, obviously she's in this loving relationship, but was she at a point in her life where she
felt comfortable to talk about her sexuality? Was she at
a point where she felt comfortable to share that? And she was essentially forced by a Sydney Morning Herald journalist who had a real gotcha moment to come out and share not only her relationship that she may not have been ready to share, but also the fact that she is in a same sex relationship, and that regardless of whether we're in twenty twenty two, regardless of whether that is well received, regardless of the general perception towards her relationship,
it must be very hard to get to your own, in your own personal identity, to make that decision that.
You're ready to share that with the world. And that's exactly right, Laura.
It's not even this isn't I mean for me and hopefully for a lot of people, they see this as this isn't even being forced to come out. But it's also been forced us to talk about a relationship in general, even if it was a heterosexual relationship, it's irrelevant. Somebody stuck a knife in and twisted it and what do you do with that information? It's taken away from you.
And of course, if you have two options, one some publication is going about you, or two you can take control yourself and be, you know, the one that tells the world your news. Of course you're going to.
But that's exactly right.
It was you've got forty eight hours, Oh we're going to do this, regardless, and to then have them be up in arms that you robbed them of that story when they were robbing you of something, so they're robbing you of privacy. Privacy respects a lot of things, So it's unbelievable. I actually read the article multiple times because I didn't believe it. I know, at the end of the day, Rebel is secure and she is in a loving relationship, and I know that she's very happy in
that relationship. But she did come out with her own response in her own tweet, just saying, you know, it has been really hard and she's just trying to handle with as much grace as she can while literally the whole world watches on. This is what it is, and she is Can I say, I can commend her, but she is handling it with such grace and such humility to have been thrown into a situation that she might not have been ready to do. Well.
We did a bit of deep diving as well, so Andrew Hornery, who was the journalist at this publication. As we mentioned now, he has written many entertainment news for The Sidney Morning Herald, and as much as he had written this, adding the same relationship should be a redundant concept. In twenty twenty two, love is love right. That is
how he started off the entire article about Rebel Wilson. Now, in May fifteen of twenty twenty two, he wrote an article which was titled the man who helped Thorpe take his first steps out of the Closet.
He also wrote an.
Article in July nine of twenty twenty one which was I couldn't go on living a double life? Why conservative Michael Yabsley came out at sixty four. Now, this is a journalist who is very, very aware of how a heterosexual person in this celebrity limelight, who turns to being in a same sex relationship or who identifies as being gay, how that creates clicks. He has written multiple articles on this, so as much but he says in twenty twenty two exactly about that as much as he says it shouldn't
be about it in twenty twenty two. He is acutely aware of how important this is as prime real estate entertainment news. And I think that is why people are so fucking pissed off because it was dressed up as oh, why did you have to take this exclusive from us?
If it shouldn't matter that much.
But at the end of the day, regardless of who someone is dating, their personal life should be able to be shared in whatever way they feel because it is their personal life, celebrity or not.
The entitlement from this man and this article is astounding, and I think I think we've covered it all. I think we the world now knows our opinion. LAWA, I think I know where we stand on this.
But also social media in general, like there are so many I mean, if you have a Google of this now, there are so many people who are up in arms about it. There are so many other journalists who have commented on this, there are tweets about it, and I think it's incredible to see that we are at a point in society where love truly is love. Rebel Wilson's relationship has been embraced with such positivity and real compassion
from the general population. However, it's really disappointing to see just the way that the media perpetuates stories and continues to think that this is something that's scandalous, that's worthy of a news article. The other part of this is that we still are a society that is obsessed with labels. Whether we like it or not, we love to say this person's heterosexual. This person's now a lesbian, this person is in a bisexual relationship. Everything has to have a
label because we struggle with ambiguity. And I think when you bring this back to Rebel as a person and now, like, I do not know Rebel at all. I know obviously you do, Britt, but it must be challenging spending forty years of your life identifying as being a heterosexual and then going, Okay, I have these feelings, I'm in this relationship now I'm really happy, but what does that make me?
And having a publication trying to make assumptions as to the way that you identify, and I think, like, there is so many layers to this that go beyond just someone being in a relationship, because at the end of the day, if Rebel Wilson had been in a relationship with a not so famous man, this would not be headline news. We'd just see a small byline in one of like the E news articles which was like, hey,
Rebel Wilson in relationship with like hot man. The only reason why her relationship was so headline news last time was because it was with a billionaire, and now it's headline news because it's with a woman, one hundred percent, Laura.
That's entirely accurate.
Everyone has their own journey in love and life and relationships, and of course Rebels obviously had to figure things out along the way. I'm not going to comment on that because that's not my place to comment on what she's been through in her discovery and things like that. But I can comment on things that Rebel has commented on herself, which is the fact that she has been looking for a love for a long time and she's finally found it now, and that's what the world should be celebrating.
That she is fucking happy and secure. I wish that wasn't taken away from her, and I wish I wasn't forced upon her. But the other thing I wanted to add is we are in no way saying Andrew Hornery, the columnist, the guy that wrote this, the journalist. We are not saying that he's against her relationship and against gay relationships. That's not it, because I do think he's in support. Our problem comes with the fact that this was forced upon Rebel and b the way in which
he chose to write about it. This is where the problem comes from. And even just in the article herself. It is steeped in subconscious negativity, and I think this is something that a lot of people might not realize when they're consuming media.
I just want to.
Read you one example of what I'm trying to say. In this article, where that he's talking about her new relationship, he says things like Rebel also used this same platform, Instagram, to brag about her past relationship with her billionaire boyfriend.
Okay, the word brag.
Rebel didn't use Instagram to brag about anything. Rebel used Instagram to do what people do as to post a photo of their life. She posted a photo of her boyfriend, and all of a sudden, she's bragging about it.
It's really interesting.
I mean, this is a tactic that we see across so much media, how journalists will use really negative undercurrents in their wording which give you an impression of someone without even realizing it. If you read that article in your like this person was posting photos where they were bragging about their relationship, it instantly incites in you that they are superficial, or that they're entitled, or there's somebody
that you wouldn't like. Whereas if they were to just write on the platform where they posted a photo of their boyfriend, which every single person does, you would have a very different impression. But because of the tone and the way that an article can be written, we are subconsciously conditioned to like someone or to dislike someone, and we see it a lot in the way that women are framed within media in general.
Totally. And the word gloated is in here as well.
Her friend who set them up, he Sheridan, he had spoken about setting them up, and all of a sudden, he's gloating about it. So where Rebel's gazumping it, she's bragging. Her friends are gloating. This is allly in this one tiny article. So when you're consuming this media and this is everyone reading it, when you're consuming it, all is subconsciously.
All these words are like hounding into the back of your head and you're like, and you walk away from that in a different way if you read that article saying spreads the love about this new relationship. So it's something to be conscious of as well when everyone is consuming media. And I could talk about this for a long time, but I think that's enough of that chat. Congratulations to Rebel. We love that she's happy, and in love. We love to see it.
So I think I think that's all we need to say on the topic, and we'll put down our pitchforks to Andrew Hornery.
Put down, lay them down, everybody, Everyone go look your best life.
Alrighty, I am jumping on.
Here very quickly because there is some more information to the story. Things have happened since we finished recording. Now, Britta and I we recorded this discussion about Rebel Wilson, about the article and about Andrew Hornery and her being forced into coming out about her relationship potentially before she was ready to because of this forty eight hour deadline that was put on her by the gossip columnist. Now, Andrew Hornery has just come out with an apology, and
that came out at one o'clock today. We think it would be remiss of us to put out this podcast episode without at.
Least acknowledging this apology.
Now.
The apology was also published in the Sydney Morning Herald and it was titled I made mistakes over Rebel Wilson and will learn from them. In the apology, Hornery attempts to explain why he wrote the article that he wrote. He attempts to explain why he originally gave Rebel Wilson a forty eight hour deadline to comment on her relationship, but he also says this, I genuinely regret that Rebel has found this hard. That was never my intention, but
I see she has handled it with extraordinary grace. As a gay man, I'm well aware of how deeply discrimination hurts. The last thing I would ever want to do is inflict that pain on someone else.
Now, I really think it's important.
Just because Andrew Hornery is part of the queer community doesn't mean that that gives him or anybody the right to make somebody else feel forced to talk about their sexuality before they're ready to themselves. It's not a get out of jail free card. He also goes on to say in this apology that the tone of his column on Saturday was also off.
I got it wrong.
I allowed my disappointment to cast a shadow over the piece that was not fair, and for that I apologize. Now we'll put a link to this article in the show notes as an apology. Unfortunately we can't put the original article in the show notes, as The Sydney Morning Herald is now removing it and replacing it with the apology article.
However, if you guys do a.
Google, there are loads of articles surrounding this. But what I wanted to say on this and before we move on to the next part of this whole episode, is that I think it's such.
An important thing. It is Pride Month.
It is so amazing to see so many other publications, so many other journalists, so many other entertainment journalists, gossip journalists commenting on this story and really holding this type of behavior accountable because it's twenty twenty two. Nobody should ever be forced to talk about their sexuality before they're ready to. And it truly doesn't matter how famous someone is, how many Instagram followers someone has, or how interested we
are in someone's personal life. It's nobody's business what their sexual orientation is. And nobody should be fearful or have to come out because they're scared that their story is going to be told by the press or by the media before they're comfortable.
Well, it is time.
For us to get into our favorite part of every single episode, and that is accidentally unfiltered slash confessionals slash potentially when it's funny, whatever is coming into our lives I have an accidently unfiltered for today, or do you want to You were piercing yourself on the couch earlier. I know, but I always think that's really funny, and then you it doesn't land as well with your fucking Okay, I am going to go first, because.
Mine's very innocent. It's got nothing to do with poop, nothing to do with sex.
And I'm here for it. I probably won't enjoy it then, Okay.
My partner accidentally broke one of my favorite bowls the other day, No hard feelings. It was an accident. Still annoying, yes, but it was one of my favorites. I finally got around to going out getting some super glue and gluing it back together because I just wasn't ready to let it go. I left the bowl on the bench top to let it set and dry. This morning, I was tidy in the kitchen and I went to put the bowl away.
It wouldn't move.
This super click seems to have seeped out of the cracks in the bowl, and now the bowl is super click the kitchen.
That's so fucking annoying. You don't know what to do, so I've just left it there. My partner hasn't noticed yet because you never cleaned shit up.
It's been two days. It's only a matter of time until he goes to move it or put it away. He realized that the bowl is.
Now a part of the kitchen freasure. That's a good thing, that it's your favorite.
It's going to be there forever now on prime possy, right there on the kitchen base.
But a moment that you got to put it away, that moment of realization were you're like, oh fuck, this is stuck.
In the middle of you also, can't take it off. It's going to damage the bench, I reckon. You just get yourself a kitchen stool. Park it right there, and that's where you eat breakfast from now Cereal every day in the safe spot. Okay, that was very grated. It was, But I love a g rated one. Mine is less jeep.
Oh, actually no, it's it's g rated.
This is very g rated G plus. There's no sex at all. There's no sex, no scandal.
All right.
I'm on a day trip with my boyfriend and we were in a cute homeware store down the coast. I was standing there looking at some knickknacks and I felt my boyfriend walk over and stand next to me. I was just telling him how much I needed to go to the bathroom. So not only did I tell him how much I needed to go to the bathroom, I grabbed his arm and I gave him a cuddle, and.
Then I whispered into his ear. I really need to be.
The shock I got when a random man turned around and said, oh, do you and his girlfriend was standing on the other side of him. I quickly grabbed my actual boyfriend and hurried out of the store, whilst almost pissing myself with laughter. And because you needed to physically go to the toilet, bless, I think that's great.
I'm here for this. I love the innocent.
Accidentally, I need to be well, it's better then I've got diarrheom about to shop myself.
Imagine if she's had that. That was really graphic.
When was the last time you grabbed a love interest and said, I've got diarrhea and I need to shoot myself.
Last time we had diary, Well.
I haven't had a lot of interest in a while, so that answers negligent, But diarrhea actually was more recent.
Please don't all right? Well, on that note, let's get into toxic masculinity.
So today we are talking about toxic masculinity slash mental health slash the fact that last week Laura and myself and Will.
And Woody had a lunch. We all cried, we all had a breakdown.
We all talked about like deepest darkest feeling.
Did we have a breakdown or did we have a breakthrough both?
Yes, one preceded the other. Now this was we did think that was actually was really quite special.
So Will and Woody if you guys don't know who they are, they are a radio duo on KISSFM.
Very very popular radio duo.
Yeah, and they're two men who have opened upper space to talk about mental health. They are also both on Celebrity Apprentice at the moment, so they get in a lot of air time. But I guess the thing that's so unique about them is that traditionally radio you don't really think about men talking about their feelings.
It's not really the space for it. It's a space for shot like jocks.
It's the space for inappropriate sexual fucking innuendos. It's not really the space for two men to cry. Now, this thing that Britain, I did this share my food concept. It's something that you guys can roll out in your own home if you want to do it. It's all about sitting down with the people that you're closest, with the people that you love, and having a conversation that
goes beyond just the hey, how you're going. It's asking questions that kind of really taps into the more vulnerable conversations. And let me tell you, if Britta and I can end up both in tears with cameras on us whilst recording what was essentially a podcast, you guys will be fine with opening up and crying in front of your closest nearests and dearest.
It was literally the Bachelor all over again. It was it was food, crying questions. I was like, the cameras in our face. I was like, this is a bachelor again. No, but it was a really beautiful lunch.
We were relative strangers having this conversations. And one of the topics that we got onto when we were doing this lunch was toxic masculinity. And I know that this is not a new concept, so many of you probably
already know what toxic masculinity is. But this month is actually men's mental health awareness month, and so we thought, what better times than have a conversation around toxic masculinity with someone who has been incredibly open and vulnerable about their experiences with depression and mental health and how toxic
masculinity has affected them. So this interview that we're going to do today is with Will McMahon, and he talks about his own experience, but to also give you guys a bit more of an explanation around what toxic masculinity is in case you're not aware. It comes down to these real gender stereotypes, this sort of idea that boys will be boys, men are manly and masculine and don't
have feelings and shouldn't talk about their feelings. Men don't cry, and men don't cry because it is weak and pathetic and emasculating to have feelings.
Now we all know that that is absolutely not the case.
That men have many feelings, they just haven't been given the same ability to talk about them as what women have.
And now we have podcasts.
We sit down with our girlfriends and talk about our relationships, We talk about love, we talk about the way that we feel in a really open way. Because because traditionally feminine and women in society, we're expected to be more in touch with our feelings and to be able to speak about our feelings openly. This doesn't subscribe to what is and what defines stereotypical masculinity. Now, this is like a really top level definition of it. And there are
so many ways around how toxic masculinity impacts everyone. It doesn't just impact men, It impacts the LGBTQR community, It impacts women, It impacts literally every single person. And this is a really great quote that I think perfectly sums up what toxic masculinity is. It's written by a journalist named Jessica Keith, and she says, toxic masculinity is what you get when a bottle of unpasteurized, full fat maleness
is left out on the counter to kurdle. It's what happens when traditional ideas of what it means to be a man, strong, violent, powerful, too tough to be bothered with pesky emotions are prioritized over pretty much everything else. It embraces violence and aggression as napru male traits and
smugly excuses these behaviors when they harm others. It's the whole boys will be boys mentality toxic masculinity is so dominant in our culture that anyone who doesn't identify as a windmill, high fiving alpha male is bound to suffer.
It's super important to note exactly what you just said, Laura, that toxic masculinity does affect everybody. This isn't a one size fits all, and there is a bit of a crossover with stuff that we have spoken about on the podcast before, things like weaponizing competence, rape culture, gas lighting, and we've covered these in episodes we've done surrounding domestic
violence and coercive control. So we really do want to note that this is something that we realize affects everybody, and today we are covering it from a male perspective, but just so just as an example, like a very generalized example of what toxic masculinity is. It's like when
you're back in the schoolyard as a teenager. I think back to your school years and I know this is a word I don't even use anymore, and I would never an insult, But when I was a teenager, the word that everyone would use, the slang that everyone would use, was when a guy had any kind of feeling or emotion or got upset about anything.
It was don't be fucking pussy.
That was the word every other boy used to say to them, Don't be a fucking pussy and.
Back, and like you would just never ever say this.
Now I'm going back and I don't want to tell you my age, but I'm going back fifteen twenty.
But like it's pretty I'm pretty well.
But we wouldn't use pussy to describe a woman, would You wouldn't say stop being a pussy to a girl who's crying about something.
And that's why I think, like, obviously this.
They're literally saying, they're relating them to a woman's vagina, Like that's what it is. It's saying you are so soft, you're like a woman's. Like when you think about the comment, it's so ridiculous, like what a stupid statement, But it had meaning to it, which was you're acting like a woman. The meaning behind you are being a fucking pussy is you were acting like a woman because only women would have feelings and cry totally.
And I guess the other thing that this ties back into is when we actually sat down with Will and Woody and had these conversations over our share my food, another word that Woody used, which I was like, fuck, that is such a word that men would use to describe themselves negatively, but it's not really a word that
I think that we would associate with women. So we had to do this experiment where basically, like we had to use a word to describe how we think other people see us, and Britta and I both chose like quite effeminate words that described us. And Woodie said he thinks that other people see him as a coward or cowardly, and I was like, wow, that is such a strong word to describe the way that you think people perceive you outside of yourself.
But also I think like cowardly is such a.
Word that we attribute to men, like that they haven't sort of shaped up to be a manly enough man, that that's what makes them cowardly. It's such a gendered word as well. I guess this idea with toxic masculinity is that really pigeonholes a very specific type of man, and that if you fall outside of that, then you're not a manly man, and so therefore you're not a man at all. Like it, it all comes down to
how we view masculinity within society. And anything that deviates from that is not leveling up.
And just on that before we wrap this up.
It's funny that Woody use the word coward to describe himself because there's this huge misconception. And I did say this toward he, Actually I said it to both of them. It's this huge misconception that men think that if you cry, it's a turn off for a woman. If you have emotions and you speak about them and you feel things, it's a turn off and women don't want that. But the funny thing is, and I mean I can only speak for myself and a few friends i've spoken to
this about generally women want men to have feelings. It's a turn on for me when a man can be open about how he feels and can be upset about something that's important to him or that's worrying him. For me, that's not a turn off. It's showing me that we can connect on a different level, and you're comfortable enough and open enough to sit in those feelings.
So maybe by having these.
Conversations and any men that are listening know that they can have these feelings and it's not putting women off like they think it might be. Well, I think that there's been a huge changing tide in terms of topsy masculinity.
Like we said, this is not a new concept. It is something that's been discussed widely, and I do think that there are a lot more atypical manly men, I e. Jason Mamore, who was a big man mountain but who will talk about their feelings. I think that this is changing from the top down. But I think at the same time, it's people like Will McMahon who are being really open about their stories, being really open talking about depression, that are leading the way, and that it's the visibility
that helps to destigmatize these conversations. So with that all said, let's get into the chat with Will.
Well, thank you for coming today and welcome to Life Uncut.
Thank you so much, Thanks Britt, pleasure to be here. Thank you so much, Laura.
Now, we never start an episode without doing it the exact same way that we do it every week, and that is we want to know what is your most embarrassing story.
So I had a bit of a think about this. Obviously, I tell silly, embarrassing stories about myself all the time, so I really didn't want to regurgitate something. But I had something pretty embarrassing slash very embarrassing that happened to me the other day. As you know, I just her a little baby girl.
Congratulations, thank you very much.
I promise this is not some lame parents' story. I'm trying to avoid them for as long as I possibly can and posting about my kids, but I'm finding that very hard. So this is before the baby arrived. Actually, we were trying to induce labor. I'm sure you guys would know that one of the great ways to induce
labor is by having sex. So something I think, well, I don't know, maybe I'm making an assumption here, but I hope, well not that I hope maybe have either of you had sex with the pregnant woman before.
I mean, I haven't been the pregnant woman that that has had sex with, so I know it from the other side.
I'm not doubting that you've got the other perspective in this.
I haven't been pregnant.
When was the last time you had sex with the pregnant woman, Brandon last full moons?
So, yeah, we're trying to bring on labor, and so yeah, we occasionally start having sex. But it's really like it's just a lot.
Going on, Like logistically it's a bit harder, and also things just aren't quite the same when you're out nine months pregnant.
But why logistically don't you just roll them on the side.
Well, yeah, but there's still a bit and like a little human that kicks and there's like little alien inside.
Yeah, so if the baby's like that's just rattling because you're obviously just thinking like are you knocking on the door? Are you not knocking on the door. And then there's just like the nipples are like the size of sauce but saucers. Like it's just a real it's just a hard thing to navigate. Anyway, while I'm navigating all of this, my girlfriend's mum who's staying with us at the time. She's staying with us at the moment while we're sort
of like having the baby, et cetera. She walked in while this was going on, while you.
Were knocking on the door. She knocked on the door, or she didn't knock on the door.
While I was knocking exactly. It was just like this moment where and I don't know, like I'm I'm sure you guys have been walked in by your parents before, like or if you haven't, there's this thing that I'm sure everybody could listening right now can empathize with where they don't fucking leave, they linger. They do this thing where they just stand and like take it in and then kind of like just try and smooth it over with.
Like previously, I've been walked in with my dad and he's like, oh, I'm just wondering what you bought for dinner, and I'm like, just fuck off. And she relied. We did exactly the same thing. She stood there and she just like stood there and she was just like looking at it and like, I it's not my mum's anyway. Sam eventually just like yells at her. She's like mom, get out, and she's like okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, and she like bustes away and she's really sweet.
It was a very obvious will like we under the blankets, and you could have just like stayed really still and pretend it didn't happen.
It was very obvious and out in the open what you were doing.
Oh God, I don't know how graphic we can get here, but.
Oh we can get graphic.
But I'm getting the feeling it was pretty obvious, like he wasn't in there trying to find the head, but like we know it was graphic.
Yeah yeah, yeah, it was like, well, yeah, she was on all fours and like.
Like we're just trying out the birthing positions.
Mark, I swear, Yeah that's right, that's right.
Well that's your mother in law. I had it. Did that go down? Okay?
Oh yeah, we just laughed about She just thought it was hilarious, like it was just a very funny thing.
That is such an wow, an awkward situation.
Will you are currently on Celebrity Apprentice and you're advocating Forgotcha for Life, which is a mental fitness foundation that speaks about toxic masculinity and how it can lead to mental health issues. Now, who do you think toxic masculinity affects and how have you experienced it in your own life?
Okay, So I want to start by saying, I'm actually really fucking scared to talk about this, So thank you appreciate it. But you know, it's funny, like ironically, that is the issue with it, Isn't it that I was
scared to come on here and talk about that. That is inherent in why we have such a problem with toxic masculinity because it's almost just like this word that guys hate to be branded with, guys hate to talk about, and it's just terrifying to even think that I could be labeled with it or I'm going to say something
wrong about it. So I really want to stress before we go into it that there are obviously two sides to this whole concept of toxic masculinity, and that is how women perceive it and how they're affected by it, which I just don't want to talk on it all because I'm not a chick and I've got no fucking idea, and I don't want to try and pretend like anything that men go through can compensate for a lot of the really truly terrible things that men can do to
women as a result of toxic masculinity. But I can talk about it from the perspective of a guy who got very depressed because of toxic masculinity, and basically, I don't think it was the reason that I got depressed, but I think it's one hundred percent exacerbated it, and I think it's the reason that a lot of guys struggle with being who they are really, I can only tell you where I've experienced it in my life and at what point I think it gets damaging for men.
And I think that's an important point to make, is that, like when you think of the word toxic, toxic implies that something's poisonous, right. I think that when we think about toxic masculinity, we think about people wielding masculinity, you know, like it's something that they using to hurt other people, Whereas it's poisonous, so it's also damaging to the people who are wielding it. And that's what I think. There's
this duality with it which is really interesting. And if we approach it as this thing which is like, don't get me wrong, needs to be squashed and shut down and eliminated as much as we can so it doesn't hurt others. We need to approach it, I think, for a long term goal through where it comes from, in order to stop it harming people who are the ones
who are wielding it. And I think that's the really, really tough part about it, because the guys who are using it, the guys who are victims of it, will never want to admit that that's something that they are using. I wanted to give you an example of toxic masculinity in my life. So I went to an elite private boy school. And this is something that I haven't really spoken about on podcasts. I spoke about it on The Imperfect a while ago, but Hugh and I decided to
delete it. And it's hilarious that we decided to delete it because we didn't want backlash. But I went to an elite private boy school. That's a place where, like you get taught to be a goal setter, you get taught how to achieve, you get taught ambition, you get taught. You walk into the hall there and like the honor boards are just filled with names of boys who were
like cricket captain, footy captain. And I was like a drama nerd, and I was just a full on nerd like love, I love music and poetry and these are things that I could only admit well after I've left school, because I used to go to school and I wanted to be a part of it because that was the only thing that I knew. How that's the only lesson
that I knew. And I remember being on trams leaving school where we used to do like gangbang chants about girls on the tram, like echoing each other's voices down tramps to the point where like naturally school girls would get off. And I look back on that and it's just like, who the fuck was I? What am I a part of? How did I get here? And the
truth is that I wasn't taught. Young boys in those situations grow up to be often colossal dicks because they're not taught any other way with how to deal with society, with how to deal with life. They're grown up around boys, and you don't talk about your feelings, you don't talk about what you're weak at, you don't talk about what you've learned, you don't talk about how to you know, how to be nice to women. It's this dick swinging
competition and that's the only thing, you know. It almost makes me sad in a lot of ways when I look at a lot of these boys, and I look at a lot of my friends, and like a lot
of people who get slammed for being toxically masculine. And you know, people can rake me over the calls for this, but I have a degree of sympathy for people who get caught in the web of this machine, because unless you're ripped out of it by something like me, I was ripped out of it by depression, it's a pretty hard circuit to break.
I think that as well, in that this idea that softness or feelings or being vulnerable, somehow we've tied that concept up with weakness. Somehow it's become that they coexist together. And like even just crying or showing like your feelings or not being this constant like achiever, resilient, the foundation for a family, like the men of the house, these sort of ideas that we've created anything less than that this softness is tied into an idea of failure.
One hundred percent. One of the greatest lessons that I've learned through everything I've been through. The strongest people are the ones who figure out that your strength this through your softness, and that is a beautiful trait to cultivate. And it ties into something I told you I had a baby recently. Something I found really fascinating while we were having learning all about pregnancy is that oxytocin brings
on contractions in pregnancy. Oxytocin's the love chemic makes you feel really good about yourself, like when you hug someone or when you fall in love, and oxytocin can't be released in the face of adrenaline, so like often women will stop having contractions as soon as they get to hospital, or like when something startles them or all these things, because their oxytocin just goes nuh, that's adrenaline. I'm out.
It's exactly the same thing with this idea of toxic masculinity is that like boys don't get a chance to access their oxytocin, they don't get a chance to release oxytocin, So of course adrenaline's going to rule the rist and that's the only thing that they know.
Well, you've been really open publicly about your battle with depression. How did you go about living your everyday life whilst you were struggling and not feeling as though you could talk about it? Because that must have been so hard.
A lot of people say to me, I can't believe you do what you do or you did radio while you were depressed, Like that's a common thing, because when you are depressed, the last thing you want to do is do a comedy show with your friend. So I actually count myself as really really lucky, just incredibly fortunate that I was totally broken, but I had to go
to work to do a fucking comedy show. Like I was lucky because most men who get depressed, most men who come up against something like this, go to work and they hide behind a piece of machinery or a photocopier or a computer, and they have the opportunity to continue to bury this stuff. Whereas I had to go to work. Given that I was young and dumb, I was spending all my money on drugs and alcohol on the weekend. When I was living in Perth. I didn't have any money, so I had to go to work.
So I was like this Catch twenty two where like all the burrs and the drugs was just driving me under, but I had to keep working to afford it.
A vicious cycle. Indeed, it was.
A shocking setup. It was a death spiral. So I had to go to work, and then I get to work and it like beautifully. I did the show with my best friend and he was just like mate, but he didn't even need to say to me, this is just not tenable. We can't continue on like this. So I was kind of forced to go to a psych My old content director Todd Campbell, who was a beautiful man and I know he had his own demons as well. He walked me down to the GP and he was like, mate,
we're just going to get you looked at hilariously. I went into a GP. She gave me a box of antidepressants and said, this will sort you. And then I got kicked out, which is really funny in hindsight.
Isn't that ridiculous?
Extraordinary? But then we worked through it and I started learning about all these ideas of masculinity and like how I felt like I needed to be someone that I wasn't and I feel like we all kind of feel that with our genders, right. That's why it's so cool these days we talk about gender fluidity because everyonem with
their gender. You feel like a bit of a square peg in a round hole, Like you're a woman, but like there's still this image floating around somewhere in your subconsciousness about what the archetypal woman is, and you're still not quite there.
Matt and I have had these conversations, but not just in terms of like gender identity roles, but in terms of parenting roles, like I have a village of other mothers around me who talk about what it is to have an identify you of being a mother, what it means to go through losing my identity and refinding my identity, and this huge transformative time which has been the last couple of years. And then I've spoken to Matt about the things that he struggled with, and he doesn't have
that community. Dads don't get together and talk about how they feel about being a dad, how their lives have changed. He's like, not even just that side of things, but like we don't get together and talk about sleep routines, like that's what moms do. And I think these type of gender roles not only does it play into this idea of toxic masculinity, but it ties into everything around how we structure society and how we structure our roles in the home and what flow and effect that has.
One hundred percent, As I said before, I'm really lucky. I'm really lucky that I had to address this stuff, and I'm lucky that I can talk about it with you and people always find it so refreshing. I find it hilarious that I, like, people find this so refreshing that I talk about this stuff candidly because this is
now just second nature to me. But it would take a lot of my friends drinks and drinks and drinks and drinks and drinks to pull me aside and be like, yo, bro, you know that like depression stuff you've been talking about recently, Like you know, and we you know, we might get there, we might move past you know what multi we've got on tonight and like, I don't know whatever. That's a couple of like classic blokey topics, but they get thrown around.
That's fine, that's banter. That's blokey banter. But what men need to develop is the capacity, as Gus Wallin says, to go beyond the banter, to move your friendship from an acquaintance to a friend. And if we can tie that back into toxic masculinity. The funny thing about dudes who because like it's not like these guys don't have emotions. They're fucking people, right, But the only emotion that toxic
masculinity lets you have is anger. So a lot of the men that you meet who are the biggest dicks on the planet, who are just angry all the time, are really fucking upset, and it's them projecting that. And this is the worst part about toxic scunity is the
victims of it. Yes, he's a victim, but as the other people around him who experienced the anger, who experienced that, as he projects on them all of his problems because he's never allowed himself to actually look at them, because society tells him that he can't look at them because he's not a man if he does.
I think it so hugely ties into like this concept of vulnerability, and I know the word gets thrown around a lot. Vulnerability is so important to forming connections and relationships, right, It's like that factor that allows you to really understand who that person is. That vulnerability is almost like looking inside or having that keyhole to look through and go, oh, that is who you are. And I think with that comes a greater level of understanding. When was it or
what shifted for you? Apart from understanding or finding out that you were depressed through going through like you know, the formal medical channels, what was it that changed for you in terms of being able to talk about your feelings ultimately.
And I'll throw this back in with Woody and like what we had to do, We had to keep working together. You know, that was our job, and we liked our job. There was no getting around the fact that I was like really upset a lot, and I was really really glum, and I was like really glum. I had to try and explain to him what was going on. I had to try and explain to him why I was so upset. I was so depressed. One day, I couldn't get off my bed and Woody came around to my house. I
was just in tears. I couldn't move. I don't know if you've been like this, sometimes you can get so depressed you can't move. Thankfully, I haven't been there for a long time, but I was just on my bed, like and the idea of walking to the bridge was like walking to China. It was just like everything was just heavy and yuck. And Woody came around and he was like he was trying to understand what was going on. Bless him. He came over and he was like, bro,
I get it. You know, like this one day, I had a pimple on my ass and it was so fucking painful that I was pretty sure that I wasn't going to be able to sit down on a chair at school. So like I just stayed in bed for the whole day. I was like crying with laughter. But it was like this olive branch from someone who just didn't know what was going on, And it made me realize that he also didn't have the gears to understand
what was going on here. And this is the reason that I think that we have an issue, we have a mental health crisis, is that I realized I was the one who was going to have to first show the vulnerability which was going to get him to open up too, so that our relationship could move beyond pimples on asses and girls and football and all of this stuff. And as two guys who went to a private school who that was our language, it was fucking terrifying. I was like, shit, how do I do this? But then
I just started spilling. I started spilling about how insecure I felt, how invalid I felt, how awful I felt, how I thought I was never good enough, and like all of these things. From that moment on, and I would stress this to all guys who were scared about having this sort of a chat with their friends. Our relationship just exploded, like it just blossomed and blossomed and blossomed as you just got layers and layers and layers
and layers and what you're talking about. I like to think of vulnerability as like a dissolving sort of an ointment if you like. It kind of just like works its way. It like just steadily unsheaths the layers which are protecting all the good stuff, because it feels like initially it's like, oh, this is the stuff that I would never share with anyone. But you can only gain from sharing things that feel insecure to you to others because that gives them a chance to be insecure too.
Like if you roll around the world putting people in this position where they feel like you're perfect, they instantly go into this mode where they're like, Okay, well, well they've got it sorted out. So I'm not going to come out here and show them that I haven't got it sorted out, because then you know, that'll be terrifying. So as soon as you show anyone that you are fucked up, insecure, vulnerable, terrified, it transforms every relationship on the planet. I often do it with like big guests
that we have on the show. I'll just be like they'll be like, hey, you going, I'll be like, oh, you know, and it might be something stupid like I stink like shit today, or like just something fun or small or just like a little bit and it's just a little cookie, like a little vulnerability cookie, and they're just like, oh cool, I can let my guard down. How nice. So that day, on that on my bed, that day was probably the first day that I remember really trying to tell someone what it felt like.
I love that he compared you to a pimple on his ass in this most crucial moment in your relationship history.
Oh isn't it amazing?
For all the.
Women we have obviously a very large female based audience, For all the women that are listening right now that have someone in their life, a brother, a father and uncle, a friend, someone in their life that they think could be struggling. They're not sure. Maybe it's like you in the early days. Maybe they don't know yet, but something doesn't seem right. Maybe they do know something's wrong completely.
What is your advice on how they should approach the situation, coming from someone that's been there.
So the first thing I'd say is, you know that Celebrity Apprenticeship episode where Iran a retreat on the you're in a child. And I was hanging out with all these guys who were super Marcho duds, Darren McMullin, Vince Colossimo, Benji Marshall, like people that I actually really looked up to and who were super macho men. And for the first two episodes of the season, you know, I were having a shit one because they were just big alpha males.
And you know, I just told you all about this little soft cocoon that we'd created for each other, and we're very, very very vulnerable, and like we were kind of keeping up and this sort of stuff. But Benji asked us to this retreat episode and I did this meditation on your Inner Child, and it was the first time any one of us had been vulnerable or kind, just outwardly kind to each other, and they burst into tears, like they cut so much of that footage, Like I
had to hold Darren for minutes. It was full on, and it was proof of the power of being compassionate with people like that. And I just you said, you've got lots of female listeners, and I just don't expect them, nor am I telling them to go and be nice to someone who's a fucking asshole to you, because I don't know the level of hurt they've caused you, and I don't know how much of a dick they really are. And maybe that's you don't need to is the other thing.
I'd say, that's not your role. But if it's someone that you love, the expression kill them with kindness comes to mind. Getting through this vortex of masculinity, if you can be kind to that person, if you can show them compassion in the face of all their dickness, you will find the results are extraordinary. And it kind of comes back to what I was talking about before, about this idea of masculinity being poisonous and it hurting them too. And if I can use another analogy, do you guys
know who Eddie Betts is? Okay, he's an AFL footballer, is like one of the best indigenous players of all time, and he was at this game and he got a racial slur from a little girl in the crowd. Naturally, he pointed her out and they went to go on a vict her from the ground and Eddie found out afterwards that they evicted her and like you know, cut her membership up or whatever they did with her, and
He was like, what are you guys doing. You want to expel this girl, cut her membership up, torture, Like what do you think that's going to do to her? With racism? She's just going to think I'm a fucking dickhead and she's going to be an even worse racist than she ever was. So he was like, can we bring her in here? So they brought her in. He sat down with her, he spoke with her, explained to her how and why it hurt him. I'm not in
a minority group. I'm a white, heterosexual guy. So for me to talk about anyone in a minority or in a position of feeling undermined by another majority group, let's say, is very high handed. And I really don't want to
do that. But I look at that and I go, holy shit, that is the way to treat people who are wielding this level of if you can find the gear toxic masculinity or just masculinity in general, or anger, if you feel like they're expressing that, and I promise you the layers are there, like they're there, but it's just how to wade through them. If it's someone that you love and they're depressed. Two okay rule is my rule. First, okay, are you okay? Every guy on the planet's going to go, yeah, mate,
what's for dinner? Are you okay? Wait for the classic yeah, I'm fine, what's for dinner? And then go no, no, no, are you okay? And then you stand a chance of getting somewhere.
You're so right in saying that whenever you do ask somebody how are they, it's just our default response to say, yeah, I'm fine. Like nobody wants to admit or come out straight away that they're actually having problems or that they're struggling with something. What do you think needs to be done in order to help fix these issues that surround
toxic masculinity? And do you think it's something that needs to happen on an individual level or something that we need to look at from a much broader scale.
We talk about reactionary change, and then there's like cultural change, like actually from the ground up is the only way that this is going to slowly happen. And it really comes back to all of the stuff that we've been talking about about teaching boys that you're not in a race with blinkers on and you don't have to reach a finish line before everybody else. In fact, given that you've got the blinkers on, you're not seeing the fucking world.
You're not enjoying it. Happiness isn't only achieved through success. You don't have to be the best and the quicker. You can learn that being vulnerable and being insecure makes you more accessible to others. That means that you will have a richer, far more fulfilling life where you're not this island where the only way you can communicate is through competing. If I could go up to myself as a teenager and encourage me to explore all the softer sides of myself and to be okay with that, I
would probably have saved myself a lot of hurt. So I think that's I think that's really the key is trying to educate young boys by showing them, and that's what I'm trying to do as much as I can.
I think that a big part of that is and this is why it's a little bit disappointing to hear you say so much of this was left on the cutting room floor or on celebi Apprentice, because I think a big part of this is televising this. You guys had a moment where a lot of in your words, big marcho masculine men broke down and we're very very upset and vulnerable, and there was a beautiful moment there that we know happened now thanks to you.
Then we also know it was cut.
That would have done wonders for so many young men, boys, teenagers to see that, to see that they're idols. Oh shit, like they cry too, they get upset too, they're talking about their feelings. I think that that makes me a bit upset that that happened. But again, it's just people like you going out and finding the good fight now and being very vulnerable and open and talking and sharing
your story. And we can't thank you enough for coming on today to share your side and the things that you've been through and the work that you are doing to try and change the next generation.
So big shout out.
To you, Will, Thanks Brett, I appreciate it.
Tell everyone where they can find you besides the radio.
But don't listen to them, listen to like to Will and Wode, listen to.
I try and keep a pretty low profile online, like I'm very much just Will and Woody. Socials is probably a good place to follow me if you're interested in following me. I did a podcast called share my Mood recently, which ended up in the share my Mood app, which we made last year, which was all about creating an app where people could talk without having to physically have conversations, because guys have confined conversations so hard, so we made an app where you can share how you're feeling in
like three clicks on your phone. So if you want to learn how that worked, Share my Mood is the podcast as well, where I kind of like really go into this stuff and try and explore white such an issue and more importantly, how we can change it.
So yeah, well, thank you so much for jumping on and being a part of the pod and for exactly what Brits said, for giving the topic visibility, because I think that that, like above everything, is one of the most important parts of this conversation is just acknowledging that it's a very real topic, but also that the more that we talk about it, the more that we destigmatize it, and the more that you know, the next generation of boys or this generation of men who are feeling exactly
the same way, it opens up that conversations in people's households, and it also arms women with a bit more information around how to have these conversations with the men in their lives.
I hope. So, guys, thanks so much for having me kill them with kindness, kill them with kindness.
It is time for our favorite part.
Actually, shouldn't say that, because I always say accidentally unfiltered as our favorite part. Then I say, suck and sweet is our favorite part to me favorites. We never finish an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight and our low light of each and every single week. It's a nice thing for you guys to do at home too, with your family and your friends.
Actually, funnily enough, Will and Woody played this game, but they called it something different and I was like, guys, we already trademarked it.
Yeah, it's our suck and sweet. All right, Britt, what is your suck for the week? My suck is Last.
Night, Delilah projectile vomited all over the floor.
That's disgusting in rank and was medication.
So it means I have to remedicate her again because it means that she didn't she didn't keep it down.
So love that for me. It was really chunky too. It was if I really need to explain it for you, but good. I love to talk about the consistency of a dog vomit, but it wasn't. Remember the last time she vomited, Laura, we spoke about in the podcast. It looked like, no, I can't.
Describe it, and it was it was in like my new deep rug. This was, Thank the Lord, this was on the floorboards. So it was absolutely fine.
I can't overstate this. The last time I was here when Britz Dog did a vomit, she vomited into high pile, into like three centimeter high pile rug and I had to pick it out with my head on.
You make that sound like I made you pick I didn't make you get on your hands and knees and clean up her vomit.
I was.
I wasn't gonna sit here in the room and just let you do it clean up around my feet?
Was I Laura very much?
She did get on a hands, knees, she did assist me in the vomit cleanup, and anyway, that was gross. My sweet for the week is Delilah, and I experienced the most insane sunset last night. I saw you in SCRAMed posts, which was like me on my romantic walk with my dog.
It was tag lover's Love.
It was so funny though everyone was The sunset over BONDI last night was you know how sometimes it just turns it on. It was incredible. There were dolphins, there were whales, the sun was the whole.
Sky was orange. Was beautiful.
At the top of his headland, I reckon. I was the only person there on my own. It was all these couples taking these photoshoots of each other, and then there was Delilah and I and someone was walking past and I was like.
You might take a photo me and my dog. They didn't do a very good.
Job, but everyone was doing in these couple photos, and Delilah and I were there like spooning into the sunset.
It was beautiful, But how.
Annoying is it when you ask a stranger to take a photo of you and then they take only one or two photos and their shit. I said, take the photo, take multiple photos until you get the photos.
I never asked. I wouldn't. I was too awkward. But I was taking a selfie and someone just walked past and they're like, do you want me to take one faking. I was like, oh, okay, that's if that's not too much strong. It's our anniversary, you know, I didn't say that anyway. My sweet was the just a really beautiful sunset? Yeah, that was it.
Something something so easy, normal and nice this week. But it was a very special moment.
I love that. Thanks, that's beautiful. What's your son? My suck?
Is that?
I think Moley might have worms?
Yeah, gets in the car today, she's like, so you guys might need to all take worm in tablet.
No, do you know what?
She doesn't have worms. She's just constipated. And that's really annoying as well.
No, it's worse. I'd probably run the worm.
I don't know. I feel at least worm is just one tablet and you're done. Constipated kid, Yeah, conservated kids. You gotta like all day, my tummy hurts, my bum hurts, and you're like, we just have some prune juice, starling.
Hey might have to pull that poop out. How do you do that? Oh you have never had you can? Yeah, sometimes you have to pull a poop out.
I am not doing that. I did not sign up for that level of parenting. We will go to the GP if it comes to that. She's been a bit sick. So that's my that's my suck. My sweet for the week is at a really nice weekend. I actually did some really lovely things. I went to a kid's concert.
I did.
I did see the dedication to the concerts diversity.
I am your number one groupie in your sweet probably three. Yes, I'm like a fucking obsessed with them.
Okay, it's Matt o'kine and I think he thinks I'm obsessed with him now and it needs to end. It's embarrassing, but uh yeah, I've got to I've got a rush on divers City. But it's because my kids are obsessed with them and it makes my life, Laura makes my life so much easier. Like, parents, please go and put it on. Secondly, I have a couple of sweets in the space of a week. It is my mom's birthday, my NaN's birthday, my Auntie's birthday, and Marley's birthday.
Wow, it was a busy time.
It is what happened nine months before now, like I don't even remember much. Well, apparently the TV was broken in all of our households, so we had like a little combined weekend birthday thing on Sunday, and my NaN's been in a nursing home for quite a while now, all through COVID.
It was like quite a sad time for her about her dementia is very very bad.
But we were able to bring her out of the nursing home for the day and spend some time with her.
And even though she kept saying who are those two belonged to? And I was like, yeah, my children, Nan, it was still a really beautiful day.
So you know, and I know that those moments are going to be few and far between with Nan, and yeah, it's just it was.
It was beautiful.
You hold onto those moments, fair, and you will there the moments you will keep forever. It was just a nice, normal lunch, but you'll remember it for a very long time.
Yeah, and also just let my kids get to stools be with their great grandma.
Like I know that she won't remember it, and I know that even.
Molly and Laura won't remember it, but like we have those photos and yeah, it's a really special time. But anyway, guys, that is it from us, a big whopping episode and we'll be back on Thursday with Ask Uncut. If you have any questions to ask Uncut and you want to slide into the DMS that you can contact us at Life Uncut podcast. Send us your question just right ask uncut at the top and we will do our best to answer your question next week. This week Wednesday, Thursday, who even knows?
In like Monday's time, not tomorrow With the next don't forget to tell you mum, to your dad, tell you dot, tell your friends, and share the love because we love love.
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