Hey guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life One Cut. I'm Brittany and I'm not Laura, Like, hello, guys. This is our Tuesday episode, our big media episode, but we have something a little bit different today. We have produced a Keisha on board, and I shouldn't say we produce a Keisha has replaced co host Laura, not for long, just for one very short moment in timeout for the intro today because very unfortunately, Laura had a bit of a family emergency and little Lola Derby took a turn
over night and got quite sick. She's doing fine, she's okay, but they did have to be admitted into the hospital, so they had been in there today and tomorrow, so she couldn't record even if she wanted to. But we're like, you just go focus on that and we will sort something out. And the result is produce a Kisha. Produce a Kisha. Welcome to Life on Cut. I will thank you.
Very nice to be here, very nice to be on the microphone here, I should say, But usually on the other side, I'm usually just sitting over there in the corner, and you're more dressed than what you usually are when you record. Just with Laura. So so, guys, usually we're in our undies and we have no makeup on, but I have a face of makeup. I've even got fake eyelashes. I did have to go in and do a presentation today. It's not for me.
She hasn't put all this on for me.
It's not for you. It's also not for a boy. So it's literally I had a job today. Keisha came in with me. Laura was also supposed to come. I mean talk about us thriving in chaos. Laura and I always say we thriving chaos. We were supposed to be on this panel, a big international podcast panel, really big deal.
It was being streamed to Europe, the UK, in America and obviously there were people there as well, and we were supposed to be yes speaking about podcasting and the success and giving our tips, and then especially about the discussion group that was kind of this special thing that they wanted.
To hear about.
They wanted to hear about you everybody is in the discussion group and how kind of it's created a community of its own. Yeah, they were more frothing on you guys, the community than they were ourselves. So we were like do you want to know anything about our lot as a community. So last minute, Laura had to pull out of that, so I had to go and fly solo with no prep. So fine, but thank god Keisha came to cheer from me out the back. She was like, you're doing great, sweetie, like keep it up.
Actually was Chris Jenna, like you're doing great, sweetie, going.
Doing the thumbs up. You really didn't you really wear Chris Janna. So anyway, everyone that put Laura and little Lolla Derby in your thoughts today, Now this is just the intro because luckily the day before Lola took a turn, we did record the bulk of the episode. And just so you know, actually, Keisha, this episode slightly because of you.
So why don't you introduce the episode? Well, I think I'll start by saying that when I f I started working with you guys, it was around the time that you told everyone you were dating Jordan, and you got so many messages and they were pretty funny.
They all said, I'm.
Really happy for you, I'm so glad that you finally found love, but I'm actually slightly upset because it means that you're not going to be sharing the shit show of a.
Time that you have in the dating world anymore.
The support was very questionable from you guys at the start. I felt the loved but I also felt they well fear no more. You brought on a producer that is in the trenches with you guys in the dating world, and that is kind of the slight inspiration for today's episode. It is all about closure, and a lot of the messages that we get to Instagram and to the Facebook are all about you know, I feel like I just want closure from this situation, and I have had a
very interesting couple of weeks. Kisha has definitely taken over the reins for the shit show of dating that I used to hold, and I'm very happy to have hit those over to you. You literally came into life on Cutt's life at the exact time, right when we needed those shitty dating stories. So thank you. But yeah, this episode is all about closure, and I've kind of had a bit of an experience in the last couple of weeks where basically I went through a pretty tumultuous relationship.
It was a quite toxic.
Relationship and over the course of time, you know, we broke up multiple times.
It was one of those ones and be.
On again, off again. Well, I noticed that the first.
Time that we broke up.
You know, for me, it was only three weeks after this guy had told me that he loved me for the first time. Red flag, Yeah, a whole bunch of red flags that I was disguising as pink hues shades of red at the time. I remember thinking, like, how the fuck am I gonna get over this? I don't understand how things have changed so quickly, and I feel like I need the answers. I need to fit these pieces of the puzzle together so that I actually know.
What has happened here, so that I can get over it.
Anyway, A couple of broke ups later, I saw him for the first time since we've broken up last week. Not by your sort of stalker ish, wasn't it. It was like, and I don't know if we encourage this
or we discourage this day. It definitely wasn't romantic, but I saw him for the first time, and it was one of those moments that you know when you're in the midst of a breakup and you kind of think, gosh, I'm really looking forward to the day that the thought of this person doesn't upset me, or seeing them doesn't upset me, or I just want closure from this situation. I realized when I saw him that I didn't actually need closure. I didn't need the conversation, I didn't need
any of that. And it was one of those really nice moments for me where I looked back and I went, Wow, this same person, you know, because I've been through multiple breakups with them. The first time I really felt like I needed closure, and this time I didn't. And it was really actually quite nice to look at the personal growth that I've experienced from that situation. So, yeah, I kind of thought maybe we should do an episode on closure. We seem to get a whole bunch of messages about it,
and maybe we can kind of unpack that a little bit. Yeah, so we're gonna talk about closure. Do we really need it? And if so, why, and what are the personality types that feel like they need it more than others? But what do you think? I mean? To me, I feel like, and I know, hindsight it's a beautiful thing, but I think when you're in a relationship and it's early days and you're going through multiple breakups straight away, to me,
that's a red flag. Like if Jordan nine the last six months had broken up and gone back together three times. To me, that's like, this is supposed to be the best time of a relationship, the beginning. I'm not saying this to you. I'm just like, you know, having a discussion. But it's like the honeymoon phase. If you are having that many problems and that much of a tumultuous relationship in the first like two, three, four, six months, I mean,
you should never have that many problems. But I think of it as that's supposed to be the most like all consuming, loving, smitten, sickeningly, disgustingly loved up time of your life. And if you're like breaking up constantly, I feel like you're never going to get to the finish line.
You know.
It's funny going through that experience. That was the first time I've kind of had one of those stars of relationships. And I think it's kind of the boiling pot analogy. You know how they say that you can have a frog in a pot and if you just gradually heat it up, it doesn't realize that the water's getting hot
around it. It was that I didn't realize there were these little things that happened at the start that kind of started getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and by the time I kind of realized what was going on. And I mean, I'm to blame for it as well, and I'm not saying that this other person is completely at fault. It was one of those situations that I think I just gradually became desensitized to, and I kind of misinterpreted the toxic nature of it for
passion common misconception. It happens. It happens to the best of us. It really does. And we've spoken about it before, but I think that that is something that happens a lot. And we get to this point where we're like, oh, this is a boring relationship. He doesn't love me as much as my last relationship because my last relationship he was so jealous and he was so needy, and that's love,
Like I'm telling you now, it's not love. Well, I started to think that that was quite thrilling, and I think I became desensitized to just how fucked up it was. And you know, probably vice versa, he would probably be saying the same thing about me. I have a friend his name is Brad and he used to say this thing to me back years ago. So it's a bit sad that I haven't learned this until now. But here we are. He used to say, if you know the what,
the why doesn't matter love that. Yeah. So he was like, Caish, if you know that someone doesn't want to be with you, it doesn't matter why.
You know that they don't want to be with you, So that's it, move on.
And that's what I mean. I'm lucky that I'm in a really beautiful place in my life, only because I've gone through so much shit to get here. And I wasn't always like this, but I'm in a place where I honestly am like that. And I was talking to Jordan about this last night because I wanted his opinion on it. I'm like, if I broke up with you tomorrow, you know, out of nowhere because we're so great, would
you be all right to move on? Or would you want to come and meet me and have a sit down talk because you need answers and you need to know why. And he's like, god no, And then I was a bit like, what, You're not going to fight for me? And it like started our own fight. I was like, what do you mean, You're not going to
fight for me? He's like, if you told me you don't want to be with me, because I don't really care, He's like why, He's like, I want to be with someone that wants to be with me and if for whatever reason, and then I was a bit like five for me, God damn it. But I'm the same if someone said to me, now, I don't want to be with you, of course I would ask why, and I would prefer to know. But it's not the end of
the world. If they wanted to ghost me, I know that I could still move on just fine, because I did it when I ended my two year relationship with the sociopath. Trust me, I did not get answers for a long time. For over a year, that guy, that man was not going to speak to me, and in all honesty, I was a bit scared to speak to him, but I didn't get any closure. But I was like, cool, that was not meant for me, and that was pretty fucked up. So I'm just going to get on with it.
Well.
I think that the one thing that I will add is that I do like a lot of the people who.
Listen to this podcast have anxiety.
And I think that when you have had an anxious brain, if you go through a situation like I did initially with this same person, for me, it had just gone from so good to so bad so quickly that I was kind of left with so many questions. And when you have an anxious brain, you tend to catastrophize things and tend to kind of just go over it over and over and over, and you will come to the
worst case answer unless you're given something else. And I think that that was something that I've kind of had to try and train out of myself, because I will naturally jump to, well, this must be what happened, and that must be what occurred, and that's why they've broken up with me, and it is not good for your confidence or your ego. And I think that's the other thing as well, is when you kind of have to distinguish the difference between is this your ego that's hurting
or is it your heart that's hurting. Is this actually really upsetting me because I thought that I would have this life with this person and now all of a sudden that's been taken away. Or is this just a bit of a blow to my ego because this person doesn't want to be with me, and I'm upset that they don't see that I'm amazing. Yeah, like why like come to the party, don't you know what? How lucky you are? We've all been there. But before we get into that, I guess what. Okay, I have another question
for you. How would you feel if you saw your ex or if he saw you online dating? Would that be cool? Are you at a place that that would shock and hurt you? Or would you just wish there was a possibility that you never had to see him on there.
Again, I wish that there was.
A possibility I never had to see him in general. Again, Yeah, I wish there was a possibility to get rid of that. Okay, well I can't do that, but I read something really interesting today. Tinder have just brought in a new feature and you can now block certain people in your life
from seeing your profile. So you can put in your I think you just put in their phone number, so you have to have the contact If you put in the phone number into Tinder, and it will block that person from being able to see I think that's bloody brilliant.
There were so many people I was trying to avoid when when I was on the dating circuit, especially like I mean, like this makes me sound really sad, but you know, single six years in BONDI that's not that many people in bond eye Like I turned through some days, there were definitely some people and whether they were like flatmates, friends, ex's, work colleagues, there were people that, like you just didn't want to see on there, and I wish at the time I could have blocked them, But you can do
that now. I thought that this feature would have already been a thing, like surely I thought that there would be a button where it's like hide by a profile from that person. See. I think that's really good actually, and I think that that should be something they bring in so you can do it as you go, because you might not have a contacts number. But it does present another problem. Some people have come out on Reddit and all these conversation chains and they're like, this is
all well and good. You can block your ex, but what about the fact that you could block your current partner or your partner's friends and just have a field day cheating. Well, how many times we've had a lot of people writing actually we had one only on an ask gun. I think two weeks ago where a work colleague went to Queensland on a trip and saw her colleague's husband on Tinder. He's obviously gone away, and thought that, you know, he's far enough away he's not gonna know anyone.
What are the odds she's seen it? And then she's like, Holy Molly, do I tell my colleague that I saw her husband on Tinder? So it gets to a point where you could go through your phone. I mean, hypothetically, I hope no one does this, but you could go through and block your partner and all your partner's friends
or your family or their family, and then go to town. Well, for starters, I think you'd hope that if you were going to cheat on your partner, your partner wasn't also on Tinder, right imagine if you both like that would kind of be like, ah, well you were doing it to me too.
But also I don't.
Think you'd have all the phone numbers of your partner's friends, would you. I mean, if this is clutching at straws, I think that if someone's going to go to that much effort to get away with cheating, they've probably got like a whole bag of tricks up their sleep, right, I mean they're gonna get caught anyway, if anyone's listening. We're not encouraged this and don't do it if you
always get caught, like always, all right, producer Keisha. Before we get into the episode, we have our favorite segment accidentally unfiltered. This is not your first radio Do you want to kick start? Yes? I do.
And firstly, thanks to everyone who sends these through.
It's often like the three of us kind of scrolling through and having a good old giggle. Sometimes they think that they will come in at such funny times of the night and my housemates will just hear me, like start cracking up laughing, and I.
Wonder whether they know what I'm laughing at. Okay, here's one for you.
So a few years back, my boyfriend at the time and I were out for lunch and he had invited along one of his work colleagues. And I'd never met this work colleague before. So we're sitting there, we're having lunch when we're chatting about everything, and the conversation went to tattoos and I started telling him about this guy that my girlfriend had previously hooked up with. She told me that he had a suck Me Off Beautiful tattoo across his underline. So he's a cat. Is something you
want to take home to your mama, darling? I proceeded to say, I mean, how gross is that? Why the hell would you get anything like that tattooed on your body? Every girl is gonna think that You're absolutely disgusting. You can only imagine my face when this guy looks at me straight in the eyes, stands up, the top of his trousers down and starts bursting out. Last, did he have sight suck me off Beautiful and tattooed on the top of his undeline? RIPENI fuck my life? How small
can this world get? I'm still embarrassed to this day. What firstly, bro go and get a laser removal. No one's the time, but I don't care what bet you lost. Secondly, what are the odds that you're telling a story this happened to your friend? Your friends slept with someone, and it's the person sitting across from here. It's probably in probably want to has anyone else slept with this person? Can you ride in? Yes? Send a message if you've slept with the guy that specifically has a tattoo that
reads suck me off beautiful tattooed on his undeyline. Have you gone for me? Yeah? I do. My one is like proper cooked. I feel a bit gross reading it, but whatever. So the other day I came home from work and I was putting my stuff down on the kitchen bench when my three month old kitten jumped up to say. As I was patting him, I noticed something on his fur. It was as though he had gotten into something and it spilled in him, sort of like milk. Maybe it had me rattled. Everything I could think of
was nowhere in sight. Then I remembered something. I remembered how only a few weeks prior, my partner was telling me that he was trying to have a little sexy alone time, but the kitten kept trying to swipe his balls while he was doing it. Had suddenly clicked in this moment. I turned to him as he finished descending the stairs, and I said, Babe, did you come on the cat? His face went from laughing to shocked, and that's when I knew. I burst into laughed at he
dropped to the ground. Turns out he was doing his thing and had mistaken the cat for an item of clothing. Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait, mistaken the cat for an iseam of clothing for it? How do you do that? How do you either you have like shot it out and it has intercepted it as it's like a running or you're a sicko or you're blind and whatever out. Surely they surely they shoot it out, don't they don't men just try and see how far it can go?
Surely not?
Yeah, I think so. I reckon it keeps people out there being like one hundred percent they have at least once in their life they want to know like what power and distance they have because they think it's like they think it means their swimmers are stronger and things, so like I can guarantee you velocity to them. Do you know what's actually really interesting? Can you all ask your partners in your life if they have ever done this, if it's a thing that men do where they want
to test the power of their sperm. We're gonna put a pole up and I'm gonna ask you. I want you to vote on behalf of the men. You're like super curious. I'm gonna say yes, I'm gonna I'm gonna say more people have done that once in their life. What are you gonna do? That's pretty cooked and a bit fucked us. I'm not saying it's not cooked. Well anyway, it was lovely to join you for the intro. But don't worry, guys, I'm not on the rest of the episode. Your gal Laura is about to join you right now.
Thank you for coming on, Keisha. We are in my lounge room. We are clothes though, so it's so different. I don't really know what to do with it looking at someone's but we've loved having you and I'm so glad you guys all got to meet producer Keisha because she is very big behind the scenes these days and she helps Laura and I out incredibly, So thank you for coming, and guys, let's get into the episode, all right.
So on today's episode, we are talking about closure and now. The reason why we decided.
To do a whole media episode on the topic is because you'll asked about it all the time.
Honestly, it's one of the things where and we get it in so many different variations, but one of the most common ask gun cut questions that we receive is the constant question of my boyfriend or my girlfriend has just broken up with me and I didn't see it coming and I don't know how to move on, And I guess like the bigger picture of this is unpacking closure. Did you receive closure? How important is receiving closure to
be able to move on from a relationship? And what are all the different aspects of gaining closure if you feel like you've been ghosted or you haven't been left with all the information and the tool that you need
to put a relationship to bed. And at the start, when Laura and I were like, cool, let's unpack closure straight away, I was like, when we say to each other, because we always do this before we go into our research, we ask each other's opinion straight off the bat, what do you think about this?
How do you feel about it? And straight away I was like, I have never really felt like I'm needed closure. I felt like I'm someone gives me bad news and I'm like, cool, I'm just gonna move on, but like I'm a.
Fly risk, I also go to an other country and like deal with my heartbreak by being in Barcelona.
But yeah, I used to just bury it and well, at the time, I was like, I didn't think I needed it, But I also had other coping mechanisms where I was dealing with it, where in my head I'm like, cool, I don't need to deal with it, but I was. But when I started to really have a deep dive and think about my past, I wasn't always like that.
There were times in the early days in my early relationships were all I wanted, and I remember turning up to my ex's house on the doorstep in tears, inconsolable, saying why tell me, like, just tell me, why give me a reason? I needed the closure, and I honestly believed that I could never ever move on until I
got that closure. And then I've realized as the years went by, as I got a little bit older, a little bit wiser, and a little bit more shut on, I realized I didn't really need what I thought I needed. And then we started to get into this, Okay, is closure for everyone? What does closure mean to everybody? Because the closure is subjective, it is the meaning is different for every single person, and.
It's also different case by case relationship as well. Like we do have a tendency as humans to want to package something up and to make sense of something in our minds and go, okay, this is the reason. Let's put a nice bow around everything and pop it to the side, which means I can now progress onto the
next thing. Everybody approaches the need for closure differently, and like, for example, if you've been in a long term relationship, your need for closure, if your partner was just to be like, hey, cool, I'm leaving, it's probably a lot greater then somebody who gets ghosted after one date. Like you know, we're all on this spectrum of like needing some sort of validation as to why a relationship has come to an end. But this doesn't just have to
apply for relationships. And I think that's really important because you might be listening to this being like, hey, I'm in a really happy relationship and I don't really need to listen to an episode on closure. But this could be in regards to work, Like, for example, in this past year, a lot of people have been made redundant because of COVID, And maybe you were doing a great job.
Maybe you worked for a great company that you had put a lot of time and energy into, and you were made redundant, and somebody else wasn't and you weren't given the answer why, And you can use this episode for a tool to be able to help to get over that and the trauma of how you feel the fact that you've been made redundant or being fired. You can also use this conversation in regards to like a friendship breakup.
If you've got a friend.
Who you know you've lost touch with, you don't really know why or what happened, and trying to kind of reconcile why that person just remove themselves from your life can be really, really, really hard unless you understand and the why. But the thing that we're going to kind of get to the bottom of is that the why is kind of irrelevant. And that's where I think, once we've unpacked this whole conversation, where we're going to get to in the end.
Yeah, And like Laura said, it's not just relationships. It definitely is your work. It is a status or a way of life. It's also a death or a loss of someone that's really important. It comes in so many avenues and it's important to ask yourself, can we really expect and rely on somebody else to bring us that closure? And what we need but to start off with or what is closure? The social psychologist Ari, and I'm going to get this wrong, Ari Kraglanski, Did you guys? I
just don't know how to protest the last okay. Ari Kaglansky coined the phrase.
I also think if you say anything with like a lot of conviction, everybody listening to this is gonna be like, yeah, Koglansky guy, he knows his shit.
Well, no one's going to write to inmbay. I think it's Klogonski. If you do. Don't slide into my DMS with the correction, except.
For like the one or two people who are actually a psychologists that listen every sort and when we say something wrong, we'll have a psycho just write to us and be like, hey, girls, I love your podcasting.
You didn't nail that part. But the phrase that you we've all heard of the need for closure, finding the need for closure, I have the need for closure. It was coined in the nineteen nineties, and it's referring to a framework for decision making that aims to find an answer on a given topic that will alleviate confusion and ambiguity. Now, I find this interesting that as humans, we feel like we can't get there on our own. We feel like
every single thing has to have an answer. And what I find interesting is often it's not an answer that we're searching for, but it's an answer that we want.
Well, I think the interesting thing with that is, as humans, if we're missing a link, So for example, if someone breaks up with you, or if you lose your job, whatever the thing is, if you don't have all the reasons, we like to make up reasons. We like to try and fill in the blank. And then by filling in the blanks, all the things that we have created as assumptions come truth and like, sometimes that's helpful for healing, but other times that can be really detrimental.
So we're looking for answers to try and close or resolve these painful feelings. Essentially, that's what we're doing. But while we're doing that, we overanalyze what's happened. We examine every single piece of the puzzle, and then closure is achieved when we are satisfied that all the puzzle pieces meet. But the problem is, and I think this is something that I used to do as well, and Laura and
I were talking about this. Sometimes you like I need closure, you go to get your answer, but it's not the answer you want. I remember, like a past relationship, them saying I don't want to be with you anymore, and I was like, okay, I'm coming over. I went over and I was like, okay, tell me why. Why don't you want to be with you anymore? Because in my mind and in my life and in the perfect future that I had created, I was obsessed. I was so
in love. It was everything. And they were like, I don't think I need to tell you that, and I'm like, you do need to tell me that, and he's like, fine, I don't love you anymore and I was like, excuse me. I was like, yes, you do. I was. I was like, you do love me? And he like I don't. And I was like, but you do. Because couldn't comprehend how
not how you couldn't love me. But I couldn't comprehend how I could have the feelings at the level that I did, this all consuming love and how I thought we were together forever and I thought it was perfect and that someone couldn't be meeting me at that level. So for me, that didn't do anything except make it worse. Fast forward to now and a lot of shit that I've been through. If someone said to me, like if Jordan came and said to me, I don't want to be with you anymore, if it was like a grown
up conversation, I'm not gonna walk out the door. Of course, I'm gonna ask why. I'm gonna be like, hey, like what's happening, Like where did that come from? What's going on? But if he was like I just don't I can't explain it. If he just said I just don't want to be with you, I'm at such a different place now that that in itself is enough for me. If someone can say to me, I don't want you for me, I'm like, it doesn't really matter why then, because the
why to me is relevant. If someone's just like, you're not my person, you're not all right for me, and I don't want you in my life. I've been through so much now that I'm like, cool, that's all I need, because I just want to be with someone that wants me. And if you don't, I'm fine, and I genuinely like i'd be very upset, of course, but I'm at a place now where I'm like, there's nothing to do holding onto that and sitting on that and dwelling on that
doesn't bring anything positive to my life. All it does is keep you like in quicksand stuck in quicksand.
Okay, so the reason why I laughed is not like, hey, guys, I'm pouring my heart here and Laura. I'm looking at Laura laughing, and I was like, I've either got something away face, or do you know.
If that John's about to break up with me, buck and I would not be laughing at that.
No, I'm laughing because you like accosted an ex boyfriend as to why he didn't love you anymore. And I'm just thinking about the time that I told an ex boyfriend he wasn't breaking up with me. He was like, we're breaking up and I was like, we're not. And then we stayed together for six more years. And I'm pretty sure. I'm pretty sure for the entire time he kept trying to break up. I'm just very stubborn. We
live when we learn people No. But I think one of the things you've just said that and maybe this is like the most important part of this, but this idea that obviously in your romantic relationships, you're going to be invested. They become part of your identity. They become part of who you are and what is important to you. That's just what happens. We intertwine our sense of self worth with the person that we are having a life with or creating a life with.
Now, the issue is if you are getting your full.
Source of love or admiration or self value or whatever it is, if you are getting all of that from somebody else. When that person leaves, a huge part of your identity walks out the door with them. And I think for some people, and I know this for myself. In the relationships that I have struggled the hardest to get over, the relationships that ended that cause me the most hurt and trauma. They are the relationships where I
completely lost my sense of self. So once they had gone, I was like, well, who am I now that they're not here? And so it wasn't so much around needing closure, but it was around I can't do this because I don't even know who I am anymore. And I think that a lot of people who when they get their sense of self or they get their love or whatever it is, that thing and I think that it's really important to kind of unpack what is it that you're getting from that relationship that you are not able to
get from other areas of your life. So that why can't you move on? Why are you stuck? Why do you keep looking in the revision mirror and looking in the past, Because until you're able to kind of be in the present and start to mend those things, that's where the closure comes from.
So I do think that people mainly think of closure and they jump straight to a relationship ending, and that's what they want, the closure from a divorce or a breakdown, or I guess sometimes friendships as well. But there is this tendency to near closure faults. I don't want to say more insignificant things, but more insignificant things like when you're maybe you're online dating somebody, or it's very new, it's a few weeks, maybe haven't even met them yet,
and then they ghost you, they just disappear. This can leave you and I've been in this position too. This can you sometimes more beside yourself than when a long term relationship breaks down, because you don't have any answer. Everything's going fine, everything's making sense, and all of a sudden they disappear. Then you start to reflect on yourself. You start to get these really toxic thoughts because you're like,
what did I do? What did I say? And I think the immediate thought process is reflecting on yourself as opposed to it's wrong and it's rude. But maybe that person lost interest, Maybe that person dropped his phone in
the gutter, maybe somebody died in that person's life. But I think it's sometimes more consuming these more insignificant moments like online dating for me personally, because you're like, what the fuck, Like you didn't even get a chance to know me, and it drives this level of anxiety as opposed to when you're in a long term relationship and it has a breakdown. This is when, and this is what I've read, this is when most people start to
drive themselves insane and get really down on themselves. This is when they delete their online dating profiles. This is when they're like, I fucking give up. Everyone's a twat. There's this really interesting story that I read. I think his name was the Angry so like the anger Psychologist, and he was reciting his own story and it was from years and years before he was in a really long term relationship, like eight years and they were spending
their life together. She left him one day. She just said I'm done and he was like, whoa what, Like, let's talk about this, and she was like, I'm not, like, I just as done, and she left. He messaged her and called her obviously NonStop because he's like, you can't just do that. I need answers. When she's like, well I have done that, you know, like this is done. He messaged her every week for months and he never
got a response. She just ghosted him. He for years convinced himself, I can't move on until I get the closure that I need from her, which she never gave me, and he convinced himself of it. So years went by. He ended up having contact with her and he said, can you meet me? So she met him. They met up after all this time, and he was like, finally
I'm going to get my closure that I need. They met, he didn't get any answer, she left, and this is when he realized, fuck all this time, I have put my life on hold because I told myself I needed to have this meeting to have closure, and I didn't get closure. And the realization of him not getting or needing the closure was what gave him closure. Now I know that's like a closure inception, but he's like, I
walked away. I didn't get the closure from her, but I got closure because I was like, I fucking didn't need it all this time. It's me who was in control of how I feel, and it's me in control of if I can move on with my life and accept what's happened.
But that's the reality, right, Like I think the problem is and when we focus too much on like having a nice, neat little bow to package up a relationship and put it in the cupboard, it's the fact is
that sometimes there isn't a why. Sometimes you can't explain the way that you feel, you know, and sometimes relationships break down for lots of different small reasons and you drift apart, and there isn't this one big thing that's like I cheated or I fell in love with someone else or whatever you sucked at your job, like whatever it is, sometimes they isn't an actual tangible why. And
that's because you know, we are very complex humans. We all have the right to leave relationships and change our mind. And I actually genuinely think and some people might disagree with this, but I don't actually think that we deserve a huge explanation, you know we I think maybe if you're in a relationship where you have children and your lives are entwined in that way, yeah, sure, there's a level of care and a level of compassion and empathy
that you should have for your partner. But for example, if you have matched someone on Tinder, you've been chatting a little while and they ghost you, no, you know what, that's a bit of shitty behavior, But you're not entitled to a why.
You know, you can't really get that angry.
And be like, well, you know, I thought that we were going to catch up and then he never wrote back, Like there is a level of why do you feel it's so entitled to having all of the answers given to you. And the other side of that is we never know what's going on in somebody else's life, and we don't ever understand fully what they have happening. And just because someone does something doesn't mean that they're actually into mentionally doing it to hurt you. That doesn't necessarily
mean there's malice in it. It's just that one person's out there living their life and the things that they do even though it affects you, it's not done to you, And I think that's a really important thing to remember. Yeah, I think sometimes we get it mixed up with curiosity, Like sometimes people have done stuff to me online dating and been such twats. I don't want to know why because I need the closure to make myself feel better.
I'm just genuinely curious. I'm like, what the fuck went on in their life? I'm like, it's like I like kept by a bus, Like where what happened to it? Yeah, Like I'm actually curious, So I'm like, what happened to you? But I guess the next part I want to talk about is who needs closure and the personality types. And there's a lot of research that indicates there are certain personality types that need it and certain personality types that don't.
And one study found that people who prefer order and structure and predictability and really knowing their day's plan, they have a more rigid way of thinking and a low tolerance for ambiguity. And these are the people that really struggle with not having I mean, we say closure a lot, but not having the answers to something or something perpetually being the unknown that sort of scares them, and they're the people that really need the structure or they genuinely
feel like they're stuck in their tracks. And in contrast, more creative people, more artistic people, more people that are open minded, and they're more people that are comfortable with ambiguity. They're the people that are better able to cope with people that are like, cool, I don't have an answer, but that's cool, Like the universe. I'm on my path. I'm gonna achieve whatever I want. They're not gonna stop
me from achieving my dream. So it's these more open minded people that don't really feel like they need an answer to a relationship or to a job loss, or to anything in life to move on.
I mean, it's interesting, isn't it, Because I think that, I mean, maybe you are that person. Maybe you are the person who is a bit of an a personality type of needs structure order And you're listening to this going like, yeah, actually, there's been plenty of times in my life where I felt like I needed more closure. But when you said that, Britt, like, I can think
of friends who have struggled with relationships ending. When I say struggle with relationships ending, we all struggle with relationship ending, but they have struggled to a point where they really fixated on the need for closure. And now that you've said that, I'm like, oh my god. They are absolutely somebody who needs more structure and order in their lives, and so maybe in that sense they needed to make sense of it in the way that everything else in
life makes sense. But the reality is relationships are messy, they don't always make sense, and we don't always have answers for it.
Something else I found really interesting is that people that are more religious or have a belief system that maybe is more spiritual, they don't need as much closure as people that don't. And this is all research backed because they have this ideology of this is God's will, so they don't need the answers because they can rely on being like, oh, this is what God wanted for me,
this is what the universe has done for me. I just fund that really interesting because they're just far more accepting knowing that whatever has happened to them has happened for a reason, so they don't need to go and find their asses. I just found that really interesting.
One of the things that always comes up when you have this conversation around closure is the idea of ghost right, Like I think that if we were gonna think of the most stereotypical example of someone needing closure, it's the
person who's been ghosted. When I was having this conversation with Matt, because I was like, ghosting, you know, it's such a modern phenomena, and Matt was like, what's really not It's just modern in the way it's done these days, Like so we ghost people now, by I mean, I would hope that nobody's ever experienced this, But like, imagine if your boyfriend didn't break up with you, he just went on to Facebook and changed his profile to single,
like not in a relationship anymore, I'm single now, and then never text you back.
Pretty extreme form of ghosting. But I'm sure it has happened. That happens all the time. And I actually read something, and I actually read something today that's so interesting and I'm gonna go and have a deep dive. But Facebook are actually changing the way now that you change your statuses and stuff like that, because too many people just changing their status to like broken up without instead of having a conversation.
Yeah, I know, there's gonna be someone listening to this podcast now, Who's like, yeah, I got broken up with over Facebook didn't even know about it. But this is not new. This is not a new phenomena. Like we've all heard of the wife who had three kids at home whose husband went out to go get milk and he never fucking came home. Like, and the crazy thing is, so I was having this conversation with Matt. Matt was like, yeah, my mom's best friend growing up that was her dad.
Her dad literally went to work one day and never came home and that was it. He moved to Perth, had a whole other family. Like, ghosting is not something that's new. It just used to happen in a very spectacular fashion back in the day. But I think sometimes with ghosting, that's like the stereotypical scenario where we want to have closure, we want to be able to understand, well,
why did they do that? But I think it all comes back to this idea of like, just because someone does something and it affects you doesn't necessarily mean that they're doing it to you. And even if that person, like Britz said, did give you some closure in that, they said, well, I don't like the way that you are so extroverted, or I think you're too loud, or I think you're too this. Even if you had all that information, are you going to change who you are
at the core? Like, what are you going to do with that information? Are you going to dull your flame? You know, are you going to be a different person to try and appease that person who's got the issued? No, the reality is is that they're the one that has the issue. They're the one that wants out of the relationship, and it almost always entirely lies with that person. It's not necessarily about you at all.
So you don't have closure, you don't have the answers. You've been ghosted. What do you do? First and foremost, it's super important to know that you are the one that is in charge of obtaining closure. And I think ultimately we can talk about this until the cows come home, but it's always going to come back to you. You are the one that is in charge, you of your thoughts and your feelings and what you tell yourself you need.
Even if you do get an answer from somebody, like Laura said, you don't know a that they're telling you the truth. You just don't know they could be scooting around the truth so they don't hurt your feelings. You also have to be aware that it very well could hurt your feelings. Then what are you going to do with that? But also on top of that, it also still might not be enough. That might give you exactly the reasons as to why it's happened, and that why
may still not be good enough. And if someone doesn't want to communicate with you, which we hear all the time, especially from you guys writing in and saying he won't answer me, he won't give me my answer. If they don't want to communicate with you, that's saying more about them than it is about you. They're not affording you the respect that you deserve in this situation. And I think you need to look at that as in, he's
not speaking to me because I've done something wrong. You're saying, I can't change the fact that he doesn't want to talk to me. I can't change the fact that he's not going to give me the answers that I need. I can't change the fact that they just don't want to be with me.
Well, don't you think it's that old adage of like no answer is an answer, No reply is a reply. Like at some times, silence speaks louder than any of the other things that could or should be said. And now I'm not saying that that's the right way, Like, I definitely don't think that being ghosted or being given zero explanation as to why a relationship has broken down
is fair. I think that, you know, we all should be treating people with empathy and care and compassion, but you can't excit expect that from everybody, And so if you're not getting it from the source, then you have to be able to give it to yourself.
And the key is learning to live with ambiguity. The fact of the matter is, at some stage of your life, whether it is work or love, or friendships or family, there's going to be a situation where you're not going to get answer. You're not going to know why, and you're not going to know how, you're not going to know when, and you're not going to know where, and you're not going to know what to do with it.
Life goes on. And this sounds really really blunt, and I don't mean it to be, but whether you sit in your room and dwell on that for a year, and cry, or you go out and make the most of it and go and get a new job, or go and date. Life is going to go on regardless. So it's really really important. And I can't drive this home enough. It's important to know that the quality of your life is dependent on your reaction to any given situation. You can't change the fact that the situation has happened.
All you can do is control what you do with that, what energy you put into it, and how you move forward. I did ask Matt how does he go about it, enclosure, and he was like, the best way to get over it is to get on top of it or under it whatever. It is not necessarily the best way, guys.
We're not saying go out there and fuck your way of feeling better. But I'm sure it works for some people. But one of the things I did read, and I actually it's a lie.
I listened to it.
It was a podcast, and the podcast I listened to was called The Overwhelmed Brain, and it talks all about like obsessive thinking and how sometimes this idea of closure is actually more closely linked to like obsessive thought patterns than what it actually is related to that person or that like breakdown of the relationship. But I really liked the way this podcast episode, and I can put the
links in show notes. I really liked the way that it kind of summarized how you can get closure if you don't feel like you've received it from the person. And instead of looking at the thing that happened, so instead of looking at the job loss, or instead of looking at the relationship as in like you've been broken up with instead of looking at the final nail in the coffin, that's not your closure, that's the full stop at the.
End of the sentence. The closure comes from the signs.
And one of the big things which I always find really interesting is that we have received so many ask guncut questions which were, like, my boyfriend broke up with me.
I didn't see it coming. I don't know how to get over it.
Yes, we weren't having as much sex anymore, or yes we hadn't been spending as much time together, but I
thought we were good. But now the relationship's over. And so this podcast episode I listened to, it was like, instead of focusing on the full stop, instead of focusing on the fact that that person has broken up with you, you have to focus on the signs, the fact that you weren't having as much sex anymore, the fact that maybe your communication had been breaking down, the fact that like whatever they had been gas ladding you and you'd been finding all of the little things that were actually
telltale signs that were showing you that actually your relationship was disintegrating. That is your closureP They're the things that you need to focus on. And instead of trying to like bundle it up and put a nice bow on it, pick up all those signs. Write them down if you need to. That might be helpful. Write down all the things that were happening that like maybe at the time you didn't acknowl maybe you didn't bring it up because you didn't want to have a fight. You didn't want
to have any confrontation. You didn't want to have to deal with like it seems like too big a issue to deal with. Now, think about what those things were, write them down, and that becomes your closure. That becomes the reason why that scenario is the way it is.
Okay, So how do you deal and how do you heal? I love that I made that up. That was pretty good. Number one, And we talk about this in a lot of situations. But number one is healthy boundaries. And I really love this analogy. If you keep on picking a scab, it's not going to heal. But don't pick the scab. Also, don't text them back. So essentially that's what I mean.
Don't go for coffee DAIDs, don't do drive bys, don't try and run into them, don't stalk their social media, don't clean their phone number, don't text them at least for a while. We're not saying you have to cut these people out of your life forever. Don't watching their stories on Instagram, stop making fake Instagram accounts so you can go follow them. But it's really important. And obviously
this is not going to be for everyone. Some people are going to have relationships where they're children involved, and they absolutely have to have that communication. That's so fine. But the most important thing here is to set boundaries. Regardless of your situation, have boundaries. If you don't have to see them for a period of time, like you don't have children, then yeah, you need to cut them off. Otherwise you're just gonna keep picking up that scab.
Okay, the second one that BRIT's put on this list, which I really fucking like how she's titled this. She's just written get a life, which I'm gonna say this is my favorite point of the entire episode so far in a nice.
Cute way there, but like, get alive, but get alife, get alive, and I know that that is going to hit so hard for someone who is in the absolute trenches of feeling this. But get a different life, get.
A different life, get a new identity, find new things that give you purpose. So I think, like, not only just get a life, but work on the things and
figure out the reasons why that relationship was so important. Like, of course relationships are important, and of course you're gonna love someone for who they are, but if that person was the sole source of why you loved, if they were your sole source of why you felt happy, And this is the really dangerous thing that we can do in relationships, is we can put our entire happiness in somebody else, and so when they leave, we're like, well, how am I ever going to be happy again? Because
I don't have that person in my life. It's really important that, regardless of how strong and how healthy and how wonderful your relationship is, that you still have other things in your life that give you purpose and that you still have other things in your life that give you value.
And maybe that's just starting to go to a new local cafe instead of going to the same place that makes you think of them. Maybe it's a new hobby or a new sport. Maybe it's like Laura where she took up solcial lessons. I took up Italian classes at a local tape. And it's like having great friendships. It's not just like as soon as you get in a relationship allowing everything else to go by the wayside, because you invest one hundred percent in that person, Like that's
so important. And I think that when breakups are so difficult and you require so much closure, it may be because there's other things in your life that are lacking. Thirdly, be patient. Time really does heal all wounds. Be kind, You're allowed to be sad, You're allowed to sit in those feelings. When I say time heals all wounds, time also needs a helping hand. So ultimately, what we want to end on is know that you as an individual are very capable and are complete control of what you
do with your thoughts and feelings. And I think that is really really important whether you really want to go and you're like dying to text them, you're dying to be angry at them. You din't ask them questions, write them down, Just write things down. You'll feel so much better. Call a friend and say what you want to say to the friend because quite often you just want to vent and you don't really care who you vent to.
Laura and I do that all the time. We used to go like, we all call each other all the time and just vent whatever we want to say. I've saved myself so many arguments by just texting them to the bridge, you know, we just talk her off a cliff.
But I think like at the end of the day, and maybe I don't know if you agree with me on this, brit but like genuine closure for me anyway, is when I can look back on a relationship or look at a person who I've had a big fooling at with and think to myself, I wish them well, Like I don't hold any resentment, I don't hold any anger.
I don't feel sad or jealous or anything.
When they're moving on with their life or they have found a new partner or whatever it is for me, genuine closure. And I mean, obviously I have genuine closure with all my relationships ex relationships now, but pre Matt, it was when I could look at that person and go, I don't wish ill of you. I want you to be happy. I want you to move on with your life, and it doesn't hurt me that you're moving on with your life.
That's what I think genuine closure is. Amen. It's a really really beautiful thing when you get to a point where life can throw something at you and you know you're equipped to deal with it. It is a really really nice thing. And I do feel like I'm lucky enough. I wasn't always, but I'm lucky enough to be in a place now where I do feel like I can
deal with a lot. And that's not to say I don't get sad and depressed and angry and mad, but I know what to do with it now, and I know where to channel my feelings and my anger and my thoughts. And honestly, when I learned that skill, it changed my whole life because there's a level of acceptance. And again I'm talking about guys. This is just in
relationships and jobs. I do not want to put the death or the loss of someone in your life into this category, because that is a whole nother ballpark, and of course you're going to need a whole lot of time to heal with that and a whole lot of help from a lot of people. So we're not talking about that. But I'm one hundred percent and I've put a lot of work into it to get to this place.
You could throw anything at me now and I'll feel the feelings and it will still hurt, but I don't let it stop me from living my best life in the future. I just know how to handle it and move forward. And I really hope that everyone can get to that point, because one hundred percent changes your whole life.
And I hope like listening to this episode as well, like you get something out of this conversation, and if you ask somebody who has been holding onto something or feeling like you aren't able to move on really thinking about how you can better invest in yourself, or what conversations you can have with your friends, or maybe go and speak to a psychiatrist or speak to a counselor in regards to like what can you do for yourself that will better put you in a position in the
future to be able to go when somebody or if somebody walks out of your life, go, Okay, that hurts that they didn't take my whole sense of self with them the end. All right, guys, you know that we never finished an episode without our suck and our sweet our highlight and our low light of each and every week.
And Brittany, you can go first, Okay, my suck was that. What's not was it is is ongoing, is that I froze my eggs last week. And what they don't tell you, and what you don't know is that you think once the freeze is over that it gets better because you're on two weeks of hormone injections. I'm days after now and I'm in so much pain still, so for like another ten days or so or until your next period, you are like, I look like I have a small child in my belly. You're so bloated, it's rock solid.
It's very, very painful. I asked Laura to bring me some tea overfish and I I didn't have any like soothing belly tea.
Also, britt kept on sending us videos of her off her face on Oh.
My God, I was if you guys haven't seen my page yet. It was her face. I was off chops on drugs after the anesthetic, and for some reason I got my phone back.
Somebody needed to take the girl's phone away, and I just started to message my group chat, my friends and stuff.
But I don't remember doing it, and I'm just sending them ridiculous videos.
So I've just come out of the anesthetic. That's so drowsy. I don't think I'm all the way back to normal yet. I better go before I say something stupid. Probably be good to red a podcast now, that'd be fun.
This is one video I'll show you, Laura. I'm like seductively looking at the camera and I don't look away, and I'm drinking my sprite and I'm just looking at it, drinking it. And then at the end, I don't pray guyeicondact and I'm like, it's delicious and that's all I say. And that's the video. And I said that to my friends and I'm not like what, But I'm just stealing a lot of discomfort and pain. But it's so fine and it's so manual. But that's for sure, my suck.
My sweet would have to be if you guys listened, I'm taking a little bit of Laura's sweet today. It's not the same sweet Laura, don't I literally just spoke about She was like, what is your suck?
And you're sweet? And I told her my sweet and now she's stealing my no I see it happening, glazing over it.
She was like, fuck, I don't have one. My sweet is a part of your sweets And I feel like you actually need to go first. Okay, guys, my sweet I'll jump here. You jump in. You know you say you suck first.
We try and bring you these episodes with like high energy and lots of positivity. But I actually rocked up at BRIT's house in tears today because I just sometimes have the parental guilts, which I've been having really bad in the last little bit. Mollie has been sick this weekend, Lola has conjunctive, and I've just been kicked sideways from the whole parenting thing. And it's funny because I get a lot of people who message me in They're like, how do you manage to do it all? And the
truth is I don't. Some days has their breakdowns too. Yeah, some days are great and some days, you know, I feel like I'm kicking goals. And then I have weekends like this weekend just passed, and I feel like a really really shitty mum, and like, look, Mully's at home and Laura's at home, they're both unwell, and Matt's with them.
And I just did six Days by myself while Matt was in Hamilton Island, and like, I'm not a bad mum by leaving at home for two hours to come and do this record, but I feel like a bad mum, Like I feel like I'm doing a shitty job and I just want to be home with my girls, so which.
You're absolutely not, But I mean to try and make light of a situation. My favorite part of that situation. Obviously there's nothing good about it, but you and I have cry in front of each other so many times. And when Laura cries steal in front of me, she does this really cute thing. Well, she curls something a ball, and then she pulls her jump up like she's actually a child. She pulls her jumper over her head so her head is in like a turtle inside a Shellogy cries.
I still like she won't let me just see a cry like a little scrotum that sucked back inside.
I struggle with vulnerability, guys, and don't really cry in front of people, so I like to pull my shirt over my head and crime and I'm a real ugly crier.
So yeah that's what I did. So yeah, look, I've been.
Having some pretty hectic mum guilts lately and that's my suck, which I hope you can reason.
Like you just said, you just did the six days on your own, and you're absolutely not being a terrible mother. And obviously I can't understand their parent guilds because I don't have children, but I can one hundred percent tell you you are a bloody good mom and you're doing a bloody good job.
Yeah, but you're the stupid thing about this is and like for me now, like I admit this now, because you know, we're one big life on Cut Family, But me saying on the podcast, like you know, obviously me coming and doing the record for two hours and Matt was away for six days, Like I'm not justifying that to myself, like I realized, I'm actually justifying that to people who are listening who might go, oh, well, you
are a bad mum. For leaving your kids at home and they're not well crazy like that's what I think, you know, and like it's conjunct dividus and they're still a cult, like it's they're fine, But I don't know. I think like anybody who has kids knows how you go through these stories of like some days you do really feel like you're nailing it. Another days you really feel like, wow, maybe I'm not that good at this
whole parenting thing, and yeah, maybe it's important. Maybe like having this doubt and having this sort of imposter syndrome when it comes to being a mum makes us be.
Better mums in the long run.
But anyway, that's my as I suck my sweet is and my sweet will will be for a while. Was the bonus episode that we did last week, Guys, I have had so many of you messaged me. I've kind of forgot a story I told on the bonus episode.
Was if you haven't listened to the bonus episode, you guys are missing out. It's like, it's my favorite episode we've done in a really long time.
So you need to go back and listen to it. It's a bonus episode. On just accidentally unfiltered stories. So many of you messaged me about a story I told on there about how I used to date a guy who wanted to have sex with the back of my knee.
Okay, he did. He had a lot of sex with the back of your knee, the knee fat when you crease it, because he wanted to have sex with all of you.
Yeah, go listen to the episode. It's great, that's my sweet. It's really I go. Actually, every time I listen back to it, it makes me laugh. Okay, I hope it has the same effect for you.
So my sweet is not like Laura's Sweet is a bonus episode and how many people wrote to her about it. My sweet is the fact that I was also getting a lot of messages about the episode in general, but about Laura's boyfriend wanting to have sex with her knee. But it's not mad now, guys, but Doris, I was eighteen. This is my favorite part. My sweet is getting a message from Laura that said, hey, Britt, I'm getting a lot of messages about a knee thing and how funny
it is. What are they talking about? And I was like, oh my fucking god. I was like, are you serious? And she's like, yeah, what was the knee thing? This was a day later. I was like, how have you forgotten? I was like, the knee thing where your X fucked you knee. She's like, oh, I forgot that, That's what they were laughing at. I was like, how have you forgotten the funniest story in existence?
Okay, if you have no idea what we're talking about, go back listen to the bonus episode. You will not be disappointed. You will have a good chuckle. And that is in from us for today.
Guys. I am sick of my own voice this week. I feel like I feel like we've been recording every single day. So that is me. I am tapping out and I'm going to eat some more ice cream because I'm an ice cream fiend. You know the drill. If you aren't part of the Facebook discussion group where you at, that's where all the magic happens, is where all the big juicy conversation happens, and that's where a lot of people are making friends. So that's life uncut Facebook. On
Facebook discussion group, don't go into the page. I mean, do go into the page, but it's like secret squirrel clubs, So go onto the page and then go into the discussion group. Likewise, follow us on the Gram Life Uncut podcast. Keep your questions coming in to the Instagram dms, make sure you're title them ask Uncut. Also keep your funny
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