Life Uncut acknowledges the traditional custodians of country whose lands were never seated. We pay our respects to their elders past and present.
Always was, always will be Aboriginal Land. This episode was recorded on Drug Wallamuta Land.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut. I'm Brittany and.
I'm Laura, and this is ask gun cut where we answer you're deep, you're dark, and you're burning questions, but usually where we talk for twenty five minutes.
First, well, yeah, that, I mean, that's what a podcast is, That's what I do. We talk. But you've you've come in a bit flustered this morning. No, I'm not flustered.
I came in with my phone because I woke up this morning and I'd lost my laptop, couldn't find it, wasn't in my house. Spent a good three hours last night like cleaning my house because we have an inspection today. And then I realized, ah, I haven't seen it since lunchtime yesterday, when it was in my handbag under neath a table at a cafe.
Oh my god, you left your laptop and your bag at a cafe.
Turns out no, but I thought I did, okay, so I thought I left it there. I left the house and I was like, Matt, please go and sort this out. I brought a home. It was underneath the actual dining room table.
But this I'm sorry that, Laura, that story was far less dramatic. I know, much better story when I thought it was at a cafe.
I know. But the part of the story that's the big part of the story is that I think my brain is actually broken down. I think I've gone into that part of my life where maybe i have some sort of like.
Memory loss sat dementia.
I don't know if been called that, but honestly, I have done so many things recently in the last couple of weeks where I have absolutely no recollection of doing them. And some of them are small things like I'll put my keys down and they're in.
The fridge my house.
Remember, It's almost like I just had these complete blackouts.
Do you know. I think it's because in my expert scientific doctor her opinion, I'm going to call it. I don't think you've got early on set dementia.
Thank you. I'm glad because I am only thirty six, I've done studies.
Well, I mean, you can it's a thing, but it's not common. But it's a thing. But I think you just have too much on your mind and on your plate. And I correct me if I'm wrong, But I think, like me, you don't write lists. You keep it in your brain.
It's not even stuff that you would write lists for. It's like, where did I put my hand back? I'm not going to put that on the to doo list.
But it's because your brain isn't registering that that's so unimportant, because you've got a billion other important things to do, like feed the child, keep the child alive. Just one of them, we don't knows. We're lost her in one of the boxes. Lola's gone.
Lola is the sturdier of the two. She'll be able to fend for herself for a while. Yeah, I feel like Molly get picked up by a bird or something. She lives in at the rest of her life, in a nest somewhere.
Bad takes half into the train. Lola is definitely more sturdy of the two. But that's why I think it is. I think you're just too hectically busy. Maybe try, maybe try starting to do like proper lists and categorize them and see if it like subconsciously freeze up space in your brain, because.
It might or maybe I need to start some mindfulness things.
No, start doing meditation. Yeah, but let's be realistic. If you never yeah, you you're like, I feel like I'm supposed to be doing for me right now. You will never do that, So like, let's be realistic. Let's do things that you will actually probably do.
I'm the sort of person who anytime I've tried to do meditation, after about twenty five seconds of trying to do the meditation, I kind of no, I don't forget, but I get a bit bored, and then I picked my phone up. That's what I do, which is and then I start rolling. Yeah, and then I'm like, oh shit, go back to the mindfulness. Close my eyes for another twenty seconds, and then I'm like, oh, it's happening over here.
That's not it. That's not the whole point. You need to be phoned in another room. I'll go and find it.
If I put another room for two long birds.
I will find you. Okay, well you need to work that out.
Okay, So look, if I don't know what I'm talking about today, guys, it's because I'm trying to do everything off.
My phone laptop. Another thing people do for brain power is sudoku. It's actually something to keep your brain healthy. And actually, Laura, have you seen the Chris Hemsworth documentary that he did. No, it's about his life in general,
but you know, I don't know if you've heard. He's lightly spoken about not giving up acting and giving up Hollywood, but way way way peeling it back and having a rest because he found out that he has all the genetic markers for like Alzheimer's young Alzheimer's too, and it is in his family apparently, so he's he's completely changed his whole life. As soon as the doctors gave him his results and said this is something that could actually
be happening to you, He's like peeled back everything. He's done, all this research on what to do for your brain and about a life, but it could be something that your little frizzle brain might be interested.
Well, I know we joke about this, and obviously I don't want to go from joking about having memory loss to talking about Alzheimer's. But Alzheimer's is something that's very prolific in my family. So as much as we joke about me for you getting things, then usually turns into the joke about how I'm the one who's going to get early on set Alzheimer's.
That's not actually funny. It's not funny.
And you know when I say this, I mean my so my great aunt, she passed away, my nan sister really young, like in her late fifties from Alzheimers. It's just seeing so young and it happens so rapidly as well. But in saying this, I would actually really be interested in doing an episode about like living alongside a parent who has Alzheimer's, because I think that so many of us are getting to an age where we do have
to consider our parents' health and well being. So many of us are going to have parents who struggle with Alzheimer's or dementia, or whether it's not a parent's a grandparents. So if you think that that's an episode that you would be interested in, slide into the DMS because I mean, it's for my own therapy, but it could also be.
For yours too. It is funny when you say you know, you end up being a butt of the jokes, like you forget everything, You always forget anything like, it's funny when you say that and you're actually like, well, you know, sometimes that might offend me. I remember we used to do that with my sister Sherry. We used to say it all the time because you'd talk to she wouldn't hear you, and I'd be like, what are you deaf? Like we used to be like, why are you so deaf?
When she was deaf and we didn't know she ended up getting hearing aids in retrospect, And it wasn't we weren't saying it meanly, like you'd say something she was like huh, and I'd be like, are you deaf? Or something like, you know, those throwaway comments you don't think.
But these are the things, and I think for people who are genuinely I mean, obviously there's a big difference between people who are you'ro divergent who have ADHD and have forgetful, and people who are just generally forgetful because they've got too much on. But it can be really embarrassing because you become and I know we were talking about this before, you become the butt of the joke. You become the like, oh, of course Laura forgot it
because she always forgot it. And when you hear people say that, even if it is true, even if I do forget things a lot, it makes you feel useless. It makes you feel like you're not good at anything, and it makes you think that people think that you're unreliable, and that then can really affect your self esteem.
You know.
As friends, we can kind of be like very critical on the things that maybe aren't perfect about our friends or the things that they do that might be a bit different. And sometimes I think we have to have the empathy to go, oh, that probably makes them feel bit shit about themselves because they already feel shit about themselves with those things.
But I say this because you found your laptop.
I found my laptop, but I felt stupid. And I really remember this massive period of my twenties that I went through where I would forget things all the time. For example, this one day I put the day's takings from the shop, like my shop in the city when
I used to work in Westfields. I put all the money at Christmas time on top of my car and I put all my groceries and everything, and then I drove away and my wallet was gone and all the money was gone, and I just remember thinking like what is wrong with me?
Oh?
You guys are both looking at me like what the fuck anceric was?
We've been four and a half years. You've never told me that story. You've told me okay, you've told me a story where you left your wallet on there, but I can see in your face you left down the fact that you left the takings.
No, because that was a separate time. These things have happened multiple times in my life.
But do you not actually do you not actually want to think why and then try and figure that out. And I don't mean why he's in a bad thing, but like, have you ever tried a diary or like a points list or to do list, because you do have a lot of shit gone on in your life.
Yeah, I definitely have tried those things, but they don't seem to help in the same way I think that you know, people like, just do this, it's so simple, and it's not simple.
Well, next time you lose your day's takings, lose them at my house.
Yeah, thanks, I lost my keys in your house and also my entire wallet and my income. Mat I don't the wallet never showed up, but the keys are here, and I have a new house.
It's so we So last night we all it was super cute. We had like a movie night and we all watched the documentary Ashley Madison. We didn't watch it together. We all watched it in our own homes. It wasn't that cute, but we had our own little snacks and Keisha started Actually ke Shea's like, oh my god, I've started watching this doco. It's so good. And then I was like, I'm going to turn it on. So this is in our group chat. So I turned it on.
Then Laura's like, well, I've got fomo now, so you turn it on.
So we sat there all together but independently and text each other throughout watching the same documentary.
Were like, oh my god, could you believe this? We're like, I'm two minutes behind you. We can't keep anyway. It is wild. If you guys haven't seen the Ashley Madison documentary, we can't recommend it enough. But Laura, why don't you tell people what it is if they haven't heard about it? And you know why, I say, if they haven't heard about it before, I let you tell. I had this conversation with Ben last night and he's like, what are you doing. I said, I'm watching Ashley Madison, are you guys? Oh?
Who's that? And I was like what. He's like, who's Ashley Madison? And I was like, don't you know what Ashley Madison is? And he's like, am I supposed to know what Ashley Madison is? And that's when I realized maybe it didn't stop the world in it's tracks like I thought it did.
Well, I find it's interesting because I asked Matt and he was like, oh, yeah, I know what that is. And I was like, well, why do you know what it is? It was leaked and now you'll understand why. Okay, So for anyone who doesn't know Ashley Madison, it is. It's a site that's still around. The documentary it's on Disney Plus if you want to go watch it. It's
a three part mini series. Basically, there's three episodes and it is a documentary that kind of recaps the massive scandal, the rise and then the fall and then the rise again of this dating website called Ashley Madison. Now, the reason why Ashley Madison was so hugely controversial is because it was an affairs website. So even the tagline was Ashley Madison life is short, have an affair, And I
mean I remember. The reason why it kind of came into in terms of like within Australia it came into full mainstream public media was that in twenty fifteen there was a huge data league from Ashley Madison. And now you can imagine a site like this, an affairs website is based on secrecy, it's based on privacy. So many men and women had signed up to this thinking that they had anonymity to go about and have affairs without their spouse finding out. There was a hacker group called
the Impact Team. They went in and they completely stripped all the data from Ashley Madison. This is globally worldwide, millions and millions and millions of users, something crazy like thirty two million users. Their information was taken put into a Torrent and Ashley Madison was given thirty days to shut down their site or all of the information of their users was going to be disseminated throughout the dark web.
And basically what happened is they got to the end of that thirty days and it wasn't a hoax, and bit by bit, massive chunks of data was released and there were websites set up where you could go on and you could type in the name of a man or the name of a woman, or an email address and it would basically dos any of the users. So much so, and this is actually on the documentary. It's so interesting. Fitzy and Whipper had a segment on their radio show where you could ring up, and they've got
the sound grab of it. This woman rings up and she says, I have a feeling my husband might have been on the website.
And they did it live.
They searched his email address and sure enough, the woman's husband was on there. This is playing out across breakfast radio in Australia, like that's how big it was. It
was wide world wide. But there were so many points of this documentary I thought was so interesting, so many moral debates around obviously cheating it's a horrible thing, it's completely unethical, but whether it's better to do it on something like an affairs website where everybody there at least knows the intention of what they're doing, or the way in which they used controversy to drive marketing, and they had this incredible intense explosion.
Of user subscribers.
It was also the kind of debate between what was more immoral is that the people who signed up to use the website and they were having affairs on their spouses, or was it the data league itself who was doxing all these people? And you know, there was not really any differentiator. It wasn't like they were saying, oh, well, these users have had multiple affairs, and these users just signed up and never had an affair. Everyone was kind of criminalized in the same way.
Everyone was lumped into the same sort of package of if your name was on there, you did the wrong thing. The reason that was sad with the leak is and I say sad because it did result in people killing themselves,
resulted in suicide and depression. But there are a lot of people's names that were on there, and the point that they made on the docu series were there a lot of women's names that then became adulteresses in the public eye whence their names were released, but they only ever went on there to try and see if their husbands were on their Like there were women that were like, I'm suspicious about my husband. I'm gonna go and try
and suss this out. Then their names will eat and then their quote unquote careers and lives were ruined because everyone in the world could see that they were on this site. I am on the fence with this site. And I'm saying this because it really provoked some thoughts when I was watching it that I didn't think I would ever have. So I do not condone cheating at all. I want to make that clear. I think if you're gonna cheat, don't be in the relationship.
Also, we live in a world now with us, so I mean, I understand that back in say twenty fifteen, it wasn't as liberal, but in this day and age, the different types of relationships that you can offer it to. You can have a polyamorous relationship, you can have an open relationship. They are not as socially frowned upon as what they used to be. People are so much more open and accepting to choose. Adultery just doesn't really, it doesn't fly anymore. It's like just fucking lib authentically.
Well, the thing is, it does fly because still there's seventy and seventy five million users on this site. Like this data League didn't crash the site. The whole all point was they wanted this site taken down. They wanted it to end. They were like, let's leak thirty two million users, They're going to have to shut the site down. All it did was give it free publicity around the world and the sign up went through the roof. So they're now it between seventy and seventy five million people
on this site. So adultery still exists, cheating and these affairs is still more rife than ever. But to be clear, you didn't have to be in a marriage or a relationship to go on this site. You could be single, like the worst single people going on there that obviously just wanted to be involved in an affair or it was just another way to go and have sex the thrill of it, because it does take away from the fact people generally weren't wanting to go on there and
have proper relationships, although they did. There were some people that were in relationships for like eighteen months that was sleeping with the same person, so it was a proper affair. Other people going one off hit sex and going back to their families, and I can't imagine the number of families and relationships this ruined. Once this came out, and the fact that this happened but I also had this thought where I was like, I actually won wonder how
many relationships this saved? And what I mean by that is, you know, we've spoken to so many people Esther Perelli's one that comes to mind, so many specialists in this relationship field that have said it's actually quite hard to stay in a committed relationship for fifty or sixty years, and sometimes people want to go and find something outside of the relationship, but they don't want to leave the relationship.
They love that person, they loved the family. And there's a part of me that thinks, I wonder how many relationships were saved because someone man or woman completely loved their life, They loved their family and their kids, but they felt like that one sex drive was missing, or they weren't getting what they needed from their partner. So instead of leaving completely the family and going starting a new life, they went got what they needed for and
I came back to the family and continued. Now I'm not saying it's right, but I do wonder how many people, how many men went and did that and then stayed in the family without their partner knowing their partner thinks they're in this lovely committed relationship. Still it makes the home life better and life goes on so morally wrong, it's so moral. I mean, it's just a thought that popped in my head. I was like, fuck, this ruined people. But I wonder how many families stayed together.
I think I struggle with that sentiment because I'm like, well, I mean, is a relationship that's based on one sided lies, you know, a fabrication of what the truth is? Someone who's doing one thing in their private life and another thing in their personal life, is that a relationship that's worth saving. Obviously, there's people who maintain relationships after cheating,
scandals and affairs. It happens all the time, but they usually maintain relationships once there's been transparency and there's been change. I think that like, yes, you could say, oh, it saved relationships on a technicality, But if you ask the woman who was being lied to, is that a relationship that she would have wanted to stay in? I think you would get a varying number of answers. Some people would choose to stay and some people would absolutely want to leave.
So no, well, this is I guess I'm saying. It's like I'm saying it's think of this, there would be and this is sad, but there would be so many people out there that don't know that their partners were on that site. They don't know that to this day, they're still in a relationship and they don't know that their partners are cheating on them, but they feel like they're in their solid relationship. It's complete manipulation. It's not healthy and it's not right. But people also staying relationships
for other reasons. They want to stay because of the family unit. They want to stay for their kids. I reckon there would be loads of people out there that have gone fucked someone because that's what they felt they needed, but they didn't want to leave their family, come back had a great family. She never knows. I'm not saying it's right, it's disgusting, but I reckon there are people doing that, getting what they need elsewhere and coming back to the family.
But I think that's exactly what people were doing on this site. That was the whole purpose of it. It was a site that was set up for people who didn't want to leave their marriages, but they wanted to deceive their partner and have an affair.
Yes, so Did that save the relationship? Is my question. I don't know.
I don't think you can answer that question though, without saying is it a relationship that the other person in it, who the non consenting person, the person that's being deceived, would want to be in. So yes, it's saved the version of the relationship that is exist, but that relationship is not real in the essence of which both parties believe it to be. I think cheating is it's such a challenging one because we look at it in a
very black and white way. We think, if someone's had an affair, of someone's cheating, then it must mean that there's no love at all. If we think that someone has, you know, stepped outside of the monogamy what you both have chosen in the relationship, then that person isn't essentially
a terrible person. And I guess the part of this documentary I found so interesting is more so the debate around There's no question cheating's awful, you know, but people think it is so morally and completely bankrupt that it justified having all of these people's personal data elite and having all of their nudes leaked, having their addresses league like it was so prolific the amount of information that was leaked about these people, and it's like, does the
punishment and I know we say this a lot when it comes to social media and kind of internet vigilante, but does the punishment fit the crime? And something you mentioned earlier, but just briefly, like, there were people men and women who were on this site who lost their jobs. Obviously, they lost their families, they lost their relationships because their
partners left them. But there were also people who suicided off the back of this because they felt as though they had completely lost any control in their lives or respecting their lives, or sense of purpose and well being. And you know the fact that everyone was painted with the same stroke, the fact that there were people who had had long term adultery and affairs, and then there were some people who had actually never ever had an affair that only just signed up to the site. Were
all seen as equally as bad as each other. I think that that's where the real gray area around, like who was more in the wrong when it comes to this kind of conversation. And then the thing I thought was so interesting so that the CEO of Ashley Madison, this guy named Noel Bidterman, he was kind of at the forefront of this entire site, like it was his personality, his pizazz, his media presence. He did not shy away from the controversy of affairs even though he was supposedly
in a committed relationship himself. His wife was also one of the figureheads of Ashley Madison, and they really leant into this idea of like even though he was in a monogamous relationship supposedly. He was so clever in how he really lent into this idea that all publicity is good publicities. And you know, he would be on some like religious esque talk shows whether debating whether or not that there was an ethical standpoint. He was saying, well, look,
everyone cheats. I didn't create cheating. I just created a safe platform for which people could do it on anyway. During this data league, it's revealed that he was also having extramarital affairs, which his wife had no idea about. And one of the n tiles that came up because Noel Bitterman he refused and declined to comment on all of that part of it. He was stepped down as
a CEO. It frames him as though he was also a victim of the data breach, So even though he was having an affair on his wife, he was also someone who was caught up in this defaming of his public figure. And I thought that that was a really interesting twist on the whole thing. It kind of packaged it up for me.
Well, I think when you say like this is fine, I think this is funny. When you say who's morally at fault, Like, who's morally worse a person cheating on the person that's leaked the data? I had this same thought, but in a different sense, morally speaking. It came out that not everyone on the platform was real, right, Not all the women on there were real. They were bots.
There were fake people with fake profiles, and they were there to lure these I'm saying men, but they were The women were fake, were there to lure the men into the site. And everything was paid on the site, so you didn't just pay your membership, but then when someone wrote to you you could see like a little bubble, and to continue the chat you had to pay more money, buy more credits, so it was always paying more and more,
more and more. Once you were on there, and when I didn't know all this time, Like I've always known about Ashley Madison, but I never knew it was I never it never crossed my mind that they'd be fake profiles on there. I just thought people went on, they all fucked, they all had their affairs, and then they got on with their life. But when it came up that there were these bots on there and they were fake, I was like, that is so unfair to that person
that is paying that. And then I was like, hang on, that person's paying their money to cheat on their wife. And I was like, which is morally worse the fact that someone's gone to pay money to cheat or the company that is taking the money for them to cheat and it's fake. I was like, it's which is a burse, the chicken or the egg. But I didn't know who
I felt more so for. I sort of felt so for the person trying to have the affair, because I was like, they're not even on the other end, Like there's not even a woman that you're talking to.
You've just been docks to the entire world for the affair that you didn't have with a bot with exactly.
And the man there's this one man and I felt really sorry for him because he wasn't. He was one of the men on the documentary that was just talking. I got the impression he wasn't in a relationship. He was just a single man that wanted to go and meet a woman as a swinger. Yeah, he was a swinger. So I felt like he was you know, he wasn't doing the wrong thing. So I think I had more
empathy for him. But it was really sad. He was like, you know, I was writing to all these people and he's like, I'm a lot of fun to hang around, and he was really sweet, and then he's like, no one was writing back to me and my heart program because I was like, there were all these It showed all the messages he wrote and no one responded, and just because they were all bots.
I mean, it's the same as being on any dating site, right, like some people are going to hit home runs, some people are going to get nothing. It's you know, it's all very dependent. But the documentary is so interesting, go
and watch it. I mean, no matter how morally corrupt you think cheating is, I think that that's something that pretty much everyone can agree on to some extent, that like cheating is the reason why it is so just like so hurtful and so insidious, and like it ruins relationships so much, is because of the breakage of trust, right, And it's that one person thinks they're living a certain life, one person thinks that everything is one way, and then
it's almost like their entire reality was Alie and it's rediscovering, well, what is our relationship if it wasn't the version of it that I've been living, And what's the version of it that you've been living.
Yeah, And the last thing that I want to say that I found really fascinating, and it goes back to the point of when the founder said, you know, I didn't create cheating, I'm just giving you a space for it people who've always cheated, was when they they sort of were trying to take Ashley Madison brand global and they took it to Asia and they took it to South Korea because they were trying to take it global, and infidelity there is a crime. It is illegal, and
I thought, wow, why would you take that there? They're having between twenty to forty thousand sign ups a day in South Korea, but these numbers, when they're put right in front of you on a screen, really took me back. I was like, I actually can't believe how common it is. Now when you see the numbers there in black and white in front of you, I was definitely taken back. I was like, Wow, it's far more common than I thought.
It was the only thing that I really thought about those you know, up to forty thousand people signing up per day. Was like, this is a company that had no issue with lying about the validity of the people on the website. It had no issue with, you know, creating a bit of a false narrative that data came from Ashley Madison. So I'm like, do we take this with a grain of salt? I even question the amount of people signed up now, I'm like, do you just want to create the kind of picture that this is
a lot more normal in quotation and what it actually is. Yeah, of course, with absolutely. We're only giving the information we're given and that's all we can talk about. But I still I don't believe that they have it, even if that's exaggerated. I don't believe they went to the country and no one signed up. I would love to know if any other third parties have had access to be able to confirm these numbers that would be really interesting.
I agree with what you said, Keish in terms of like creating this illusion, but I also think then there's like another question that you compose yourself, which is like, well, what defines cheating? Because, like we said, you know, some people are using it and actually having real life meetups, some people are just using it for online validation to get text messages. People use online dating and have very
varying degrees of what constitutes cheating. That I think is a whole, separate kettle of fish that we can unpack on a whole other episode.
But it's definitely our reco of the week. Yeah.
I mean, look, when we talk about vibes and unsubscribes, the three of us sat and watched all three episodes last night independently by ourselves texting each other, and it's I just found it so interesting because it really was a cultural phenomenon between twenty fifteen and twenty twenty. In addition, I mean, I know, we kind of just did an entire vibe and unsubscribed this week. The whole episode is a vibe. But I do want to recommend Esther Perell's
her podcast. I know that it's one that's been out for a little while, but that she's just brought out the new season of it, and that's where should we begin. And I was listening to one of the episodes the other day. It's called Donor Daddy. So basically this podcast is couples come in and they sit down for a one only therapy session where they unpack whatever the big
issue is in their relationship. They definitely don't walk away with all the answers, but it is so voyeuristic and so interesting to hear about the issues and complexities of other people's relationships. And obviously, if you're listening to this podcast, you're probably quite interested in people's relationships. So this episode, Donor Daddy was all around a man who was in
a committed relationship. He'd had an affair in the past, but they were in a really good place now, and his wife had found out that before they were married, he had actually donated his sperm to one of their mutual lesbian cup friends, and so he had a biological child to another set of parents. But he also had biological children with his wife, and so she was dealing with the betrayal. She was also dealing with the complexities around what does it mean that he has other biological children?
And should their children know that they're related? It was so interesting. I was like, Wow, some people really have some things disorder out.
My life's not so bad. My own relationship ain't so bad.
It's not so bad that I forget things and Matt forgets to tell me that the electricity is getting cut off on a Thursday.
Okay, Well, my vibe is also TV show. It's on Apple TV. It is called Hi Jack. Do you know Idris Elba the actor? He's absolutely brilliant. This whole series is set on a plane. I was like, how could that possibly be good? So I kept going past o.
My god, sounds like snakes on the SLA having flashbacks.
That was horrible. Yeah, I'll make it end. I was like stakes on a plane, Like why am I gonna watch this? I kept going past the past it, and then I saw somebody else raving about it, and I was like, Oh, maybe there's nothing else to watch. I'll give it a go. Also, it oh so hard. What's the thing of him? Just because he's soanly and who is he? Yeah, I've got a picture of him because I knew you. Ah yeah, BEAUTI yeah, you wouldn't kick you up it. He's also in Luther. Back to Hijack,
it's on this plane. It's just from Jubid to London. It's a flight that gets hijacked, and it's just the main character trying to negotiate his way out of it and calm everyone down and figure out what's going to happen. And you wouldn't think so much could happen on a plane, but it does. And I'm just I've been hooked. The only the only caveat is it's also one of those series where they've dropped like the first half and then you're up to date now, so you have to wait.
So it's coming out week by week now, so the next oh my god, next episodes tonight.
Can I just say, for this whole time, until you got to the end of what the plot line was, which has been like several weeks.
We just talked about hot No no, no.
I thought it was called Hi Jack, Like the person's name was Jack and you were saying Hi. I've just realized you put a big space when you say hi. You say hi, I can hijack, hijack, hijack, hijack.
Anyway, what platform is it on Apple? Okay? My vibe for the week is actually a podcast of someone that we have had on the show, Grace Beverley. Her podcast is called Working Hard Hardly Working. She had a very controversial guest this week and I could not stop listening to it. Do you guys remember the scandal that involved
Caroline at Callaway? I do yes. In twenty twelve, she kind of was one of the very initial Instagram influences, hugely famous for kind of not really being a famous person right.
Her whole entire life has.
Been embroiled with scandals and lies. So she even lied on her application to get into Cambridge and that was a lot of what her Instagram post was about. In twenty sixteen, she secured a half a million dollar book deal, but she never had any intention of actually writing the book, and she ended up having to payback the publishers one hundred thousand dollars that they gave her as an advance.
In twenty nineteen, her ex best friend, who she had employed to write captions for her, did this Tell All Peace with the Cut and basically claimed that Caroline was a liar, like a full scammer, that she was actually responsible for a lot of her writing, and in that same week, her father died by suicide. So she was kind of in this position where she was being canceled and she was actually dealing with like a lot in her personal life obviously anyway, so she kind of went
into the shadows. And then she's come back this year with an actual book she's actually written.
She finally did it.
Yeah, apparently it's written incredibly well. So the book is called Scammer. And so this whole podcast episode where she sits down with Grace Beverly, they have all these parallels in their life. You know, Grace went to Cambridge and sorry, Grace went to Oxford while she was at Cambridge, and they were both Instagram influencers at the same time.
But they've taken these really different.
Paths and one was honest, one wasn't.
This is what's.
Quite strange about it is that in this particular episode with Grace, she talks a lot about how she had a drug addiction and how that fueled a lot of her quite manic behavior and even now sober. My impression of her was that she is quite a manic person, but she's got this weird, quirky innocence about her, like, I actually don't even know what my personal opinion of
her personality is. She's quite a complex person. But she does compare herself to other scammers that we know, like Anna Deelvi, Billymopharland, And she was like, yeah, but the difference is that I'm not in fucking federal prison, Like I didn't break the law, and yet I'm kind of held to this same social.
Justice as what they were.
But they scammed people out of a lot of money, whereas I paid a lot of people back. And it's just a very interesting episode, really complex kind of issues, Like you don't want to hate her even though she did the wrong thing. Yeah, I don't want to hate her, but I also don't want to support her, like I'm not like I want to go hang out with you.
I didn't like her, but I didn't dislike her. Yeah, but it also sounds like she's on the rebrand trail. Is the PR trail when people have gone So when people have gone into the dust from being canceled for whatever it is, you know they have this not everyone, because not everyone is warranted or able to achieve one. I shouldn't say warranted, but some people are very good at the public rebrand, and it sounds like that's what this is for her.
It's working because look at you. She scounted people, but she said, sorry, well she is. Really it's super strange because you know that this person has lied so much to get where they are, but this episode felt super honest. She was like, my Instagram account started because I purchased
followers and I purchased Instagram likes. It's almost like she understood how these things would work before they were even things, which now you've got me thinking that she's just very, very very good at understanding pr and she this is like a whole other maneuver. But look, she has written the book now and she's kind of detailed a lot about that, and I don't know a lot about her life. I really recommend theisode Working Hard, Hardly Working by Grace Beverly.
It is the most recent episode. You can listen wherever you get your podcasts.
Also, I just.
Want to reiterate we always put the links to our vibes in the show notes. We get a message at least every day being like, what was that vibe?
Blah blah blah.
If you're listening to an episode and you get to the end of the episode and you're like, oh, I can't remember what that was, and you don't want to go back and find it. It will be linked in the show notes. Question number one. I've just found out I'm pregnant. It was a big surprise. Congratulations and congratulations. Yeah, I've been sleeping hopefully. Oh hang on, no, congrats. But the next sentence is we should have pre read this one.
I've been sleeping with the same two guys for months now, and it could be either one of them as the father, as I slept with them both two days apart, and I conceived somewhere around there. Other than being super confused about what to do with the pregnancy, I am also confused about what is best to do in regards to telling these guys. Should I tell them both? Should I not tell them at all? I don't know what to do do ps. Why is the healthcare system so judgy
about unplanned pregnancies. I've had so many questions already, pretty much asking me when I'm going to get an abortion, seen as it was unplanned and I'm single. How awful?
Oh that's really shit, that's fuck, Like, yeah, I mean that for the second part of that, that's really right.
Yeah, the healthcare part.
You don't need us to tell you, but if you do need it, I'll say it anyway. And for anyone else listening to this, whoever gets into this position, you can make whatever decision is right for you, because you
have body autonomy. And if you feel like you're ready to be a mom and a parent and you want to do it on your own or in whatever capacity that looks like, you have every right to regardless of whether it's an accident, regardless of whether you know exactly who the parent is or the father is or not. And you know, don't be made to feel bad for this, because this could happen to so many people.
You know.
I think for a lot of us, we're just lucky it didn't. I think a lot of us would have had multiple sexual partners within short time of each other. And it is a matter of luck and circumstances that other people haven't been in this position. And I'm sure there's been so many women who have been in this position. You have nothing to feel shameful about. Does that make it less uncomfortable for you to have to go and
have the conversation with the guys. No, of course that's going to be something that's a little bit uncomfortable, but it doesn't have to be. You don't have to walk into that conversation with shame unless you specifically lied and said I'm not sleeping with anyone else, it's only you,
then obviously that's a trickier conversation. But I think, firstly, take care of your well being, make a decision for yourself, have a chat to the people around you who love you, who support you, and make the best decision for you. Whether that is going through with this pregnancy or whether it is having a termination. But either of those decisions, it's up to.
You to choose.
And I also think before you do make that decision, seek out podcast episodes, seek out people who have been in a similar position, who have chosen both options. And I say this because so, for example, Booker Nile, she's just had a baby to somebody who she's co parenting with. I don't know the surrounding situations of their relationship, but she was on Maths a few years ago. The person that she's had the baby with, she's not in a
relationship with, so now they're co parenting. We're very much being brought up on the traditional you know, you're in a relationship, you have a baby. But I think there's so much more choice now, so I think really seek out people who have done it, who have paid the way, and see if it's the life that you want. You know, if you want to be a single mum. That's the first step. The second step is do you have to
have a conversation with these men. You only have to have a conversation with them if you choose to keep the baby, or if you want them to support you through a termination. If you want to have a termination yourself, you can do that and you don't have to speak
to them. That's how I feel about it. I think if you are happy to have your friends or your family be or support people, then you don't necessarily owe it to them to sit down and have a conversation about your fertility, the fact that you're pregnant, and the fact that this is happening, especially if you don't know who is the biological father.
I agree with everything you just said. I don't know what more I would add, other than really to reiterate that it is your body and it's your choice one hundred percent. You do need to have the conversation. I think if you choose to keep the child, because the father is entitled to know that they're a father. I really do believe that. And maybe that's just me. Maybe there's other people out there that think that they don't have to tell them that they have a kid in
the world, but I'm not one of them. No, I think the man is entitled to know. He might be stoked, he might have always wanted to be a dad. He also might freak the fuck out and be like, I'm not ready for this. It's hard too, because we don't know your relationship with these men. Have you been sleeping with them both for years and you're close to them
and you have a love for each other. That's you know, a friends with benefits or is it someone you just met, because that can change things in your mind about what you want to do for sure, But at the end of the day, no one can make the decision. Unfortunately, accept you and that sucks because it feels like the
weight of the world is probably on your shoulders. If you feel like you want to talk to these two men and gauge how they would feel, I think that that could also make a big impact on your decision, because, believe it or not, it will change things. If one of them is going to be really active in the child's life and say that they will support it financially, they will support you emotionally. There's a big difference knowing that, and that could change. They could say that now, and
of course in the future it could change. No one's going to know what's going to happen in the future. But you could also go and talk to them and they could both be like, what the fuck, Like, we don't want anything to do with this, which makes it harder, and that makes it harder again. So if you think knowing how they feel about it is going to help the situation, help your decision one hundred percent, ask them. But again, it's like, all we can do is talk
this out for you. It's a really hard decision that you're going to make on your own.
Have you seen that episode of Bridget Jones's Diary where she's like pregnant but she doesn't know which guy is the dad and then remember that, so I think it's number two or three, I can't remember, But anyway, Bridget Jones, she's pregnant and it could be the man that she's always been in love with, or it could be the naughty boy, which was Hugh Grant, and then it turns out that it was like the lovely plucid fan that she'd always been in love with. There is a thing
called amniocentisis. It's a test that can be done in eutropes. So basically, it's a needle it collects amniotic fluid and in that amniotic fluid is DNA from the baby. Often they use it to test for genetic abnormalities, but it can also be used to test for DNA. So if you've made the decision and you want to get that test done, you can also wait. So you could wait
until you're past a certain point in pregnancy. You could have that test, and then you could go and ask for the two men to provide them samples because you want to do a DNA test. Obviously, hopefully one of them says yes, and then you'll, you know the rule of elimination, maybe both of them will say yes. But I think like you have many options, and you have many, I mean very very big decisions. Ultimately, whatever you choose, whether it's to have an abortion or it's to have
this child. That choice is completely up to you and you should feel no shame over either of those options.
I did an interview yesterday Laura actually really unwell and couldn't do it, unfortunately, but this has really reminded me of it. She's a woman in the UK. It's coming out in a few weeks, but she's a single mum
and she really really really drove home an interview. You and you alone, as the individual, as the woman, need to really really want this child, and that decision shouldn't be based on somebody else in your life, like the man or the partner, because at the end of the day, especially in this situation, a lot of that is going
to be falling on you. So as hard as it is, I wouldn't have in your mind, Okay, if I go to this man and he says he's excited, I'm going to keep it, and if he says he's not excited, I'm not going to keep it. I wouldn't put it as something as simple as that, because you inside and you alone, have to really really think that this is something that you want in your life totally.
Also, because it's a good chance that you barely know these people like you might not know how they're going to show up in parenting. They might say, oh yeah, I'll be a great dad, and then they might be an absolute dropkick. So like, I think you know, like absolutely what you said, Like the decision has to be solely made by you, and if you do decide to have an abortion, you don't have to tell them to either of them.
No question Number two. I'm thirty five and I've been divorced for twelve months. I met this guy at a work event three months ago and we instantly connected. Now, I had sworn off anything serious for a while as I worked through the post marriage life change, et cetera, et cetera. But when I met this man, I let nature take its course. It started as and.
Getting down to.
It started as a three day conference event, and then he flew home to London. Now we have spoken every day since. We are planning a rendezvous in two weeks in Bali. Here's the catch. As soon as he got back to London, he told me that he still lives with his ex. They broke up in November and she was going to be moving out.
No. Three months later, been there, baby, it's probably the same guy I dated Three months.
Later, he's still living with her, and last week she told him she wanted to get back together and can't imagine life without him. I met a loss as to what to do. He has been upfront with me, but has been struggling with the emotional toll of the whole situation right now with her, No, I feel like I'm starting to back away from him, which is probably good. I don't want to be the other woman. I don't want to be the rebound he's told me that I'm not.
I don't want the drama. Also, the long distance thing is something I can handle. But am I being unreasonable to tell him that now he really has to stop living with her if he actually wants to be with me.
I this is like igniting traum And this was my relationship in my twenties. This happened to me. Relationships that field is hard. People who are like, oh, we're still living together, but we've broken up. What to me that feels like is that having broken up, they weren't broken up. They were probably still in a relationship when you hooked up. And maybe he's trying to break up with his girlfriend,
Maybe he's trying to sever the relationship. But I think you deserve somebody who's being transparent about where they're at. There is always a chance that they are broken up and he's just been trying to keep the peace. But if you want a relationship with him, and you want to do long distance, and you want to have trust, which is the most important thing to build a relationship off, he needs to show you and almost prove to you that what he's saying is actually congruent with what he's
doing in his relationships. So that means either moving out or having some transparency that you're seeing each other, Like when you go to Bali, is you're going to post photos of you? Does the girlfriend know that he's going to meet you? The ex girlfriend know. It's the secrecy around it, and it's the inconsistencies with him saying, oh, I just need to take care of my ex girlfriend.
That makes me go he's lying to you. If your instincts are telling you something is wrong, if your body is telling you that something doesn't align, listen to it because it is the most powerful tool in you actually figuring out when someone is lying to you.
Okay, two things. The question is am I being unreasonable to tell him that he has to stop living with you if he wants to be with me, No, that is not unreasonable. Number two, some people do Devil's advocate. Some people do break up and stay living together for a long time for situational reasons, cost of living finances, maybe they've been together for a long time and they're trying to work their shit out mortgage or payments. You
don't know, it does happen. I know. I have a friend who got into a relationship and he was living with his ex, and she was all very skeptical about it. Right, She's like, you can't do that and be with me. You're obviously something's going on. Long story short, they've been together for a long time and he still was living with the ex, so she would go over to her boyfriend's house and the X was there. It was two bedroom house and they lived there and that was real.
Now I'm saying that that is probably a rarity and an exception to the rule, but it is out there, and I don't want to blanket this. If this is it really is this beautiful thing and it's your soulmate. Because I'm all about long distance, we know that. But it comes back to what Laura just said, If he can still me make you feel safe in that by posting you and making sure that the girlfriend that you know, the ex that he lives with now knows about you.
If it's all out in the open, then it hits different, right because you're like, well, he's proud to be with me. She knows about it, so he's obviously not still in a relationship with her. But if he's making excuses as to why no one can know about you and he wants to keep your private and he.
Doesn't want to hurt her feelings because she's she's not coping with the breakup, so he doesn't want to add to it, well.
Then you call bullshit. And I think that is what it's going to take for you to figure out if this is the right thing or not. Is how open he is about the relationship one hundred percent because the situation could be real and he could be telling the truth and he could be amazing, but he could also be a fucking bullshitter that's just having an affair with someone on the other side of the world and he's living with his wife, like you don't know.
Totally, and big questions are like, do you have plans to go over to where he lives at all. I know that you've mutually made the decision to meet in Balley because obviously it's closer, and it's cheaper, and it's beautiful summertime now, and it's certainly not in the UK. But is there any long term decisions to go over and see where he lives and be in his space, because I do think that that's a pretty big indicator
as to whether he's lying or not lying. It's very easy for him to say I'm going on this work trip and come meet you in BALI I think going back to this idea of transparency and feeling as though you're not a secret, like brit said. And then the
other part of your question. You said that they've been split up for several months now, they're still living together, and that his ex has recently said that she wants to get back with him, and he's obviously told you this, But what is his response to that, Because if he is set on the fact that they're not getting back together, then that's even more of an indication as to why they need to not be living together, because it's not a friendship. It's not to people who are mutually on
the same page. And so he needs to really put some action into place where he's creating separation in what is his ex relationship and his current living space. And I think you're being completely reasonable to expect that, especially if you're going to commit to someone who lives in another fucking was.
A part of me. There's like two hard baskets. Some people also just type his name into Ashley Madison and see if he's on there.
All right, last question. I met this guy on Tinder seven weeks ago and we've been seeing each other every single weekend since we met. We've had such quality dates and they always last for more than five hours on the night. This is so specific. On the night we met, we had what are you looking for?
Chats?
I told him that I'm looking for someone to spend time with, hangout with, have fun with, and get to know before getting into anything serious. Good thing is that he wants the exact same thing. But then on one of the dates, he suggested we go away, and so we did. But while we were away, we didn't sleep together because I said I wasn't ready and felt like I needed more time. I'm gonna sum up the rest of it. They then went out on another date after
they've come back from this little weekend away. But he had been a little bit mia the night prior to their date, so.
They've been texting. Then he'd stopped he'd got a bit cold.
Anyway, she finds out that he has gone back on the dating apps and he's been on a date with someone else, and that's why he wasn't texting her that night. And she's written, now, I know he's not ready for a relationship because he just came out of one. But is it right for a guy to spend so much time with me, take me away, and then decide to go back on the dating apps to match with more girls. We spoke about being friends for now, but then we caught up for dinner over the weekend and he held
my hand and he kissed me. I don't know about you, but I don't usually make out with my friends or hold hands with them. What should I do? Should I end this? I have feelings, Jimmy stuff.
The guy's just come out of a relationship. He wants to have sex. Yeah, I just think it's I actually don't think he's done anything wrong. To be honest, you feel like he's done something wrong because you actually took
another step as opposed to a date. You went away for a weekend and you spend some quality time together, and it's hard because it makes you probably like them more, it makes you feel like you're getting those boyfriend girlfriend vibes because that is usually something that you do with a partner. But he's also been pretty clear that he doesn't want a relationship right now, so he's giving you
some great time. When it sounds like when he's with you, he's actually been quite attentive, like he's holding your hand and kissing you and making you feel great, but he's not lying to you. He's always said this is what I want and I'm not ready for a relationship. But he's still making you feel good with the time he's giving you. I'm not saying it's fucking great, but he's
not doing anything wrong. And if it's upsetting you that he's dating other people and then sometimes he's with you and sometimes he's not, if you're confused, if you feel shit, we can't ever say this enough. If you don't feel good in a situation, remove yourself from it. Because you do have that control tome. You can just say, you know what, let's just be friends friends don't make out well, friends with benefits do, but like, let's be friends without
benefits because there's no benefits right now. You're not having sex, no, but they're hooking up, you know, so they are still semi benefits. But I think she's upset that in between you seeing other people, which is like, you know what, he's a young person that's single and doesn't want to day.
It is what it is, Okay, So I agree undred percent, and I just want to reiterate in case anyone missed it. They spoke and the thing that they said that they're looking for and they mutually agreed is they want to spend time with, hang out, have fun, and get to know someone before anything serious. So you guys are still in there before anything serious phase.
Right.
The only other part of this I think is important is he's just come out of a relationship where he's been a boyfriend. It's so easy to do that. Like all the nice things they're cuddling, the kissing, the going away for weekends, the spending long days together. That's like
full on boyfriend mode. And sometimes even though people are not looking for relationships and even though they just want something casual and they want sex because they're so conditioned to be in the comfort of a relationship, they slip into boyfriend or girlfriend mode, right, Like we can slip into that and use someone almost like as an emotional support blanket because we are so used to having that person around, and so his kind of transferred girlfriend tendencies
onto you, but without any of the commitment. I think, like in terms of like going away for the weekend and spending really long time periods of time together, because if you were just going to be fuck buddies, you probably wouldn't have a weekend away together.
So that's where you're confused.
You're like, hey, but you're doing all these things, you're planning all these things which might pertain to it turning into something more serious, but then you're also still seeing other people.
I actually think it's what he's doing is nice. If I was going to casually see someone, literally, you know it's not going anywhere. You want your time together to still be good. You want to be having fun, doing fun things, laughing. You want to be getting the intimacy that you need because that's what we do, right, We want to go and get an intimacy. Hit doesn't mean
you have to go and get married. I think I would rather be treated like a million dollars in the time that we are together, then traded like walk in, have sex, put some pad tie on the table, don't even get out of the container, and put a bullied it straight out of the plastic and then leave. Like for me, I think it sounds like he's doing actually all the right thing.
No, I think the reason why it's confusing, And I do agree with the person who wrote this in if a guy that I was just seeing who i'd said like, let's hang out and then it might build into something serious. If he was taking me away for weekends away, I would assume that it would be turning into something serious. I would have assumed that we were heading towards something. I think the weekend of way thing is where it becomes a little bit of a that's above and beyond the necessity.
Yeah, but it comes back to listen to what they says, like what he's telling exactly.
It absolutely comes back to listen to what they say. And then also I do think the sex part of it is a big thing, Like if he's looking for something more casual, if he was expecting that, you know, a weekend away would probably mean so that he would have some sex. Then I think there is probably a part of him that's like, Okay, you're great. We obviously like hanging out with each other and we're having a
lot of fun. But like the other needs that he has, which is sex, he's looking, Yeah, it's sex after he's been you know, in a long term relationship and he wants to have a bit of fun. Those needs are not being met and with you, he's not getting the sex and it's kind of just, you know, it's friends. That's then maybe going to head into a pretty much serious relationship and maybe he's not ready for that commitment yet. So ultimately, has he done anything wrong, No, not at all.
Are you feeling a bit betrayed? And are you not going to get what you want out of this relationship? Who knows, but I agree with you, Britt. I think if you're not happy, then it's totally up to you to end it or I think have a few more personal sort of boundaries in place where you're like, cool, I know that you're seeing other people, So I'm not
going to put all my eggs in your basket. I'm not going to take this too seriously, I'm going to decide whether I do want to have sex with you or not have sex with you, but you can determine the friendship slash relationship as well.
Also, just to really drive home, don't feel bad that you didn't have sex with him or you don't want to have sex with you, because that's You're both on your separate journeys, right. He's looking for someone to sleep with. You're looking for someone to probably sleep with, but maybe take your time with the develop something more. Both are fine. It just means you probably aren't the match at this point in time because you want different things. It's totally fine. But also ask him.
Like, ask him what he wants. I know he said he want someone to hang out with, and you had that conversation on date one, but you're not at date one anymore, and you've just had nice weekends away together and stuff, and maybe had the conversation of like, hey, I know we haven't slept with.
Each other yet.
I do feel like it's heading in that direction, but I just want to I just want to get a better gauge from you because I don't want to get myself hurt. So like, are you at all interested? In a relationship anytime soon. And if the answer is no, which I think he would be honest with you, then
that kind of your cards are on the table. But I really think if you had those conversations on date one, it's absolutely okay to reassess them at date ten or whatever it's been, to kind of get a bit of a better indication, because it's clear that your feelings have changed.
I was with this guy, and I say with this guy, and I've spoken about him over the years. It went for a few years, and I was in my head. I was like, well, we're obviously together because he treated me like that all the time. We did the families, we went away, we did all the stuff. But he always the whole time was consistent. He said I'm not looking for a relationship, I don't want a relationship, but his actions different. So I hung on exactly like this situation.
I was like, well, human, we went away together, like what pradasarahs. But he always was like, I don't want that. And I could never get my head around and it took me years to come to this realization of fucking listen to what they say, like someone is going to tell you what they want it doesn't necessarily and you know, we do also say actions speak louder than words, and
they're different things. But if someone is physically saying to you like I do not want a relationship, I'm happy to hang out with you for a while, but just so you know we're on the same page, you have to listen to that.
Well, when we had Matthew Hussey on the podcast, I think this is such an important thing to reiterate if you listen to that episode, he had the most incredible advice surrounding this. Often we say listen to what they say, but it's very easy for people to say I love you, you mean everything to me, and then cheat on you, treat you badly, be toxic and abusive. He was like, it's not so easy as to say listen to what
people say, right because people can lie. But you should listen to what people say when what they say is inconvenient to them. What I mean by that is he might be treating you as though you're his girlfriend. But if what he's saying to you is you are not my girlfriend and I do not want to be in a relationship, then in those instances you should not pay
attention to his actions. You should pay attention to what he's saying because it is not convenient for him to say that it doesn't feel good for him, and it could actually mean that you take away the thing that he wants, which is the physical, the affirmation, the comfort of the relationship. I think when they say listen to what people say, you can only listen to what people say if their actions and words are in alignment.
Also, Matthew Hussy is a god, so like he said it, so it has to be real totally.
Can you just go back and listen to that episode if you need a little more clarity, we'll put it in the show notes.
We'll link it anyway. Guys.
That is it from us today. You can go and follow us a Life on Cut podcast on Instagram, on TikTok go follow bringing out a Score Hockey Britt.
Yeah, lady, my follow has been pretty stagnant for a while, so droppin' not dropping does know, they're just just chilling.
Yeah, like up thirty down thirty people Okay, And also lady and cant and also if you have any ask Guncut questions, slide into the DMS and also tell us your aftermaths so we can do an aftermath episode.
Don't be lazy, give us your aftermaths.
You want to know if you advise and kills them.
Lou sleep at night, don't forget toy Mum told you Dad. Toty dot toty. Friends and share the love because we love that. I have said that sign off four hundred and seventy times. Can you sleep that