This episode was recorded on Cameragle Land. Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life on Cut. I'm Laura, I'm.
Brittany, and you are pretty in pink today. Britt Oh, thank you?
I am.
I love it.
How you pretend like we've not spoken about this?
Thank you?
Why I am head to toe in a pink knit?
You're dressed in something that I would wear, which is why when I saw you, I was like, WHOA weird for you but cool for me.
I'll have that when you get over it.
It's not necessarily it's not necessarily weird for me, but I am trying to be more vibrant. So I am literally head to toe in like a very bright pink knit, long pants, high neck whatever. It's a nit stye great. Ben said to me, wow, babe. I was like, do you like my out? He goes, yeah, Wow, you look like Stiffler's mom. And I was like, what's I got it going on?
Yeah, that's Stacy's mom, Stiffles's mom.
God, And I was like Stiffler's mom as in from American Pie? Can I confirm? And he was like, yes, she was hot?
That's fine?
Was that Jennifer COOLi Yes, it was White Lotus. Yes, it was absolutely Jennifer COOLi. He's like, well, not obviously, He's like doubling down. He's like, obviously, like your face doesn't look like her. But and I was like, just stop it. I was like, I was vibing this and I wasn't going for Stiffleer's mom.
But it doesn't matter if you're going for it. She would wear that. But you look good at it.
Hey, speaking of white Lotus, now.
Is that all we do? Now we're a White Lotus podcast?
No?
I want to tell you something because I am really into white Lotus like the rest of the world. But I found this so interesting. So my algorithm now on Instagram has started to feed me white Loadus stuff. I guess because we've been looking up a lot of stuff for things to discuss on the podcast. But I want to tell you what I discovered. So, do you know in White Lotus, the beautiful, quiet, young Ti girl that is falling in love with the other Thai worker that works in the heart the security guard.
I think I'm about to say, yeah.
So she's great, but she's not, Like do you really overly notice her? Is she a main character? All this stuff. No, Well, it turns out not only is she like one of the most famous people to ever have Grace's screens of White Loader, she's one of the most famous people in the world. She's like a K pop star, isn't she in the world? She's got one hundred and six million
Instagram followers. Her name is Lala Lisa Mannible Manobile. I don't know if I've pronounced in her last name, mononymously known as just Lisa, and she is like uber uber famous. They almost couldn't cast her because the security that she needs personally to even go and film on set was astronomical, and I.
Was so fascinated by that.
It also just shows that we live in one paradigm of the world, you know, like our Western pop culture version of what life is like. That is just one version of what exists, and there are so many other celebrities and celebrity drama and gossip and everything else that's happening in a whole other side of the world that we're not tapped into.
I even think it's like more on a micro level than that, Like when you go to awards and that kind of thing, and you can be sitting next to your best friend, and you're like, like, fame is so subjective, you know, like you can look at someone and be like, oh, my god, that's that person. And this happened for me when I went to the TikTok Awards and my friend Chantel was like, Oh, that's that creator or that's that person.
I was like, I've never seen or heard of them, but I was really excited that doctor Carl was there.
Kisha and I were Kish and I on the weekend were literally at dinner with at the f one and these two, like I guess there were influences, but we didn't really know. They seemed really nice, but they have like ten million followers each. At the end of the night, we were like, oh, we just I'm just not in that world. We don't know who you are. But what is even more interesting is Lisa this actress. You know what the Oscars like two weeks ago, where Margaret Qualley did that
amazing dance to James Bond. Did you guys see that? Oh you're missing out? It was incredible. She'd a whole incredible performance.
But Lisa this.
Actress was like the main singer in that dance at the Oscars two weeks ago, and I think there's a lot of people that are connecting the dots now, like myself being like, oh my god, that's wild. But yeah, uber famous in the K pop world, So.
There you go. That's what really niche thank you. I enjoyed it.
It's actually not. It's like trending online at the moment. And if I am gobsmacked by that, I think a lot of other people.
I'm trying to find out how I knew that.
I think I heard it only last week, and I'm wondering if it's the same way that you found out.
I think it might have been great to the radio producer told.
Me, no, I saw it online. I'm just getting fed this stuff now.
I just want to say one thing before we get into answering your questions. I would like to say thank you to every single person who validated my conversation from last week about exhaust fans and how much they triggered me and how much distress they caused me, because I mean, I'm not surprised.
I knew that there was going.
To be allies out there who also feel the same, who feel personally victimized by exhaust fans, but I wasn't expecting it to be quite as much. And every single day I get s reels by people who have made funny videos about how exhaust fans are triggering, and I'm here for it. So thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you for validating Laura, because Brittany didn't agree, and I just want to.
Say, no, I did agree, but my I don't have an exhaust fan related I was like, do I like the sound? No, but it doesn't grind my gears enough to the fact that I would have to like leave the room.
Yeah, I can't even think about it. It causes mistress.
I also hate it equally as much as you. I so so feel this. But we did get one message that was saying, guys, it's not an exhaust fan. This is a range hood.
Yeah, what's the difference?
You know what I mean?
Isn't that an exhaust fan?
It is. It's just called arrange wood. They've been they're splitting straws there.
I think it's splitting hairs.
Can't you split a straw?
Why would you? I'm pretty sure you slit straw.
I'm googling let's do our vibes for the week.
I have a podcast.
I've started listening to, which I actually am so fascinated by. It is a little bit dark, so I do I mean it actually, I take that back. Like all my podcast, it's not a little bit dark.
It's very dark. But it's called Lucky Boy. Have either of you seen it.
I've listened to the whole thing.
It's fascinating.
So I'm only up to episode three at the moment, but it follows a man whose story he was deeply affected by child sexual assault from his teacher. So he was fourteen years old and he got into a relationship with his then twenty seven year old teacher, and it's this very fascinating discussion around who is allowed to be
a victim and who is a perpetrator. The teacher in question never faced any repercussions for what she did, and there's so many discussions around whether he was the only child, whether there were more boys that she took advantage of, And it really shows how the system deeply fails boys because it is this expectation that because they're boys, that
they can't possibly be victims of female perpetrators. I mean, as much as it is incredibly dark, like I'm enjoying the storytelling of it and the way that the podcast has been constructed.
What was your thoughts of it?
Well, the only thing I'll say is, because I've finished it and you haven't yet, is that the only thing that you said was incorrect because you haven't got there yet. Is she is held accountable. But it takes far longer and it's more of a roundabout way.
Legally though was there prison time or anything, Because.
I won't give it away, but there are repercussions, not to the level that there should be one hundred percent will say that. I think it was also a bit of a product of the time because this man now is in his maybe his forties, and it's nearly forty yer. It's taken him a long time to realize what happened to him was in fact assault, whereas at the time it's called lucky boy because everyone was like, Wow, you're so lucky, You're banging the teacher kind of thing. But
it took him a long time. And then when he starts to realize that maybe there were other people and it really affected who he was, he decides to go and advocate for himself. But it was like, oh, let's just get rid of this teacher and sweep it under the carpet, but it's fascinating.
So she went on to work at so many other schools. I think it was like seventeen schools. It establishes that she moves throughout her career, and it's insinuated at the point that I am at that she continued this molestation throughout her career, and there was so many other boys
who are affected by this. I also think it's very interesting because Gareth is now a forty year old man, but he has dealt with mental health struggles throughout his entire life, and he has dealt with trying to make sense of what happened to him when he was a really little kid, and he asked the questions like would I be this person had that not happened to me? And he never has has received that sort of validation.
It is definitely fascinating, very dark, but I really think it's an important listen because it rewires exactly that that question about who is a victim and who is a perpetrator, and why do we see boys and young girls who are the same age differently, and why do we see female and male perpetrators differently? So it's called lucky Boy it's being created by Tortoise Media and it is a four part podcast.
It's fantastic.
Yeah, can definitely recommend that. My recommendation this week is something that is I mean everyone is talking about it online. It is one of the best TV shows that has come out of Britain or anywhere in a decade.
It is so good.
It's called Adolescence. It's a four part series. The reason it has been so highly spoken about is not only the themes it explores, but the brilliance in the acting, the writing, the plot, the meaning and the way it was filmed. So each episode is shot in one shot, one continuous shot, and it's quite incredible to go on the journey. So when they start to the end, so an hour worth of shooting, which is probably like half a day really, it is one shot on every single character.
The people that needed to work on it, so like other assistant producers, cameraman are dressed up so that when the cameras go past them it looks like they're also in the scene even though they're doing their job. And it centers around this thirteen year old British boy who murders a female classmate. It's co written and he also acts in it and produces it. By a man called
Stephen Graham and his purpose of it. He was sitting at home one day and he opened up the newspaper and he saw this young British teenage boy had murdered a girl. He'd stabbed her. Turned on the TV another part of the country, a young teenage boy had stabbed and murdered a girl. This had happened multiple times, and there's a real problem in Britain at the moment with male violence, Like we know it's everywhere, but seventeen percent of male violence last year in Britain had happened between
ten and seventeen year olds. And he is decided, He's like, oh my god, I am a father. I am going to highlight the impact that people like Andrew Tate, that things like social media and the external pressures and online pressures are having on our teenagers. And it shows it in every aspect. It shows it from the parents and
a really stable family home. So it's trying to intentionally highlight that a lot of problems don't necessarily come from unstable family homes, like they have a really loving mother and father. It goes and highlights the school system, the issues that are happening there, and in this particular show, a lot of the issues have come and stemmed from online social media exposure. It is brilliant and there. It is one hundred percent on Rotten Tomatoes. Is not one
person that has written anything bad about it. It is going to be the most award winning show of the year. I cannot recommend enough. The only thing I'll say is you get a bit motion sickness when you're watching it because the cameras continue a shot, they are running, they are flying, following people. It's truly incredible in every single aspect. I haven't felt this strongly about something in a really long time.
Where's it available.
It's Netflix. It's for four episodes. It would probably be number one at the moment if you had a look. So it's a pretty easy watch in terms of its bite size, quick four episodes. I watched it in one night because I just became obsessed with it.
My vibe for this week is one of the most beautiful interviews I have listened to. I would say maybe ever, it's something that I know I'm going to think about in the weeks to months to maybe even years to come, and it was on Inherited Podcasts, which is by Shameless Media, and it's the interview with Michelle Andrews. So Michelle being one of the co founders of Shameless, she is also a friend of all of ours, and it was such a moving conversation. So it's Ruby who interviewed her, and
I know that you've been uninherited as well. In this episode, Michelle spoke so beautifully about this friendship that she had with Zara, and to be honest at actually, there were a lot of parallels that I could draw between your friendship and my friendship with the two of you, because it's quite a unique dynamic where you.
You know, you guys started a business together.
Obviously Michelle and Zara did as well, and they have this really deep friendship where they are so supportive of each other, plus being business partners, and so for us it was like plus working together. And I loved the way that she spoke about her friendship with Zara and just how pure and how supportive of each other they are, and just how unique it is to find a friendship
that is that true. She also spoke about her and Mitchard's that's her husband, are their fertility challenges and kind of their road to pregnancy, and that obviously was something that she spoke about a lot in their Glass podcast. But then the last part of the conversation, and the part that I feel like I could even hear up thinking about it, was her speaking about her mumd being
diagnosed with incurable brain cancer. And there was a particularly you know, fascinating part to this story where she was diagnosed with the type of cancer that Belle Gibson claimed to have had, and it was kind of all at the same time that apple side of Vinegar was thrust into the spotlight, and her mom just sounds like the most incredible person. She sounds like this person who has had such a fulfilled life, and Michelle shares a lot of what her mom has taught her in this episode.
And that's why I think I'm gonna kind of think about it. I feel so emotional thinking about it. Was just such a beautiful conversation, the way that Michelle speaks about her mom and the impact that her mum has had, especially at a time where you know, she's pregnant and it just seems as though these very cruel situation has happened at also one of the most beautiful times in her life and how that's going to kind of impact her.
Yeah, I feel silly for getting emotional.
It was, Michelle.
I hope that you hear this.
It was one of the most beautiful conversations I have ever listened to.
I agree, and I think I'm doing a lot of self reflection even just listening to those conversations. And something that she said the other day, she said she asked her mum to put a bucket list, like, write a bucket list down. Now, I'm gonna get emotion, you know, tell me what you want to do in this life and I'll make it happen. And the whole bucket list was the most mundane.
Everyday things.
I just want to go to the park with the dogs and my grandkids, things that she can do every day. And then Michelle was like, Wow, you are the definition of success because your bucket list is already the life you live. Yeah, And I was like, that's what that's what people strive for. Yeah, So I agree. Beautiful conversation and if Michelle does listen to this, You've got all of our love here.
Yeah.
Yeah. So that's inherited podcast. The episode most recent one with Michelle Andrews.
Question number one. I'm venturing back into dating as a single girl in her early thirties after a very toxic relationship ending a few months ago. I also found out last year that I am unable to have my own children due to some very bad healthy sh shoes. This was devastating, as I always saw myself being a mum
one day. My question is at what stage do I disclose this to potential partners A couple of dates in it just feels really heavy, and most people I meet seem to want kids, so I'm mindful of wasting their time, but I'm unsure how to approach this.
This is so I mean, we talked about this just beforehand, and this is such a hard one to answer because I understand on one hand, like, firstly, I'm so sorry that you're going through this, Like it's an incredibly hard thing that you're having to process for yourself and.
That you never expect when you grow up. You never think that that's going to be you.
Yeah, But then also being in this state where you're like, am I stopping someone from having something that they want in their life? And then when do I need to tell them about my health? Or medical or whatever it is issues that I'm having. I don't think it's a couple of dates in I don't think that you owe it to someone straight away that you need to tell
them that you're not able to have kids. And I say this because yes, you may not be able to carry children, but it doesn't mean that you don't want to have children, and it doesn't mean that you don't want to have kids. It would be a different conversation if you'd said, I found out that I'm not able to carry children and I don't want to have them at all because of that reason. Then I think it's okay to speak about it to people and find someone
who's aligned in not wanting to have children. It just means your journey towards becoming a mother is going to be harder and more intentional than what other people's might
have to be. So I would say it's definitely a conversation that needs to be had, but I don't think you need to have it until you're invested in that relationship, Like until you're sure that there's something worth putting your time, your energy, and your focus into and they've shown you that they're also equally as interested in you, and yes, maybe they might want children, but they also want you and to be with you and to have, you know,
some sort of relationship with you. Then I think I would be approaching it, but I don't think I would be offering it up as a conversation on the third day.
I feel a little bit differently, Laura. I think that you don't. I wouldn't be waiting until I'm invested and they're invested. I don't think it's a conversation that you have to voluntarily offer that information up before it's a conversation. But if it does come up, which it often does early in dating, if it does come up and there is a question that is posed to you, Hey, how do you feel about kids?
Do you want kids?
I think that that is when the conversation does have to come up, because also you want to weed these people out from the start, and if they've asked you, you can't lie because that's not going to end well either. So I don't think you have to be invested, but I think it's a positive thing for you to have that conversation quite early on, because they're going to show you who they are and what they want and what
they're okay with from the beginning. And if someone says, well I only want my own biological kids, or I only want my person to be able to carry their child or whatever else, that's going to show you who they are and that that person is absolutely not right for.
You, I totally agree with you, completely brew it. I don't think, though, that you have to go into it being like I have something I have to tell you. No, I don't voluntarily admit to you. Know, you haven't done anything wrong. You're not stopped them from anything in their life, and it's because it's something that you know is a part of your life, and that's a conversation that has to be had. I don't think it has to be
met with like I'm a burden. And that might be how you feel at the moment, because it's still something that you're processing. And especially when you say, you know, so many people I meet they want to have kids, and so I feel like I have this responsibility to
disclose it to them. I think the way that you've just described it, brit takes that burden, that responsibility away a little bit, like, yeah, I do really want to have kids, but you know, I've had a lot of health issues around this, and it's for me.
It's not going to be a clear and easy route.
So I need someone who's willing to go on that journey with me to have children, like whatever that looks like in our future. Yeah, I think that that is an okay conversation, But I definitely don't think you owe it to someone to give your medical history or to give anything about yourself until you're at a point where
you're ready. However, that said, you definitely can't wait until they're like one year two years deep and invested and they've been talking about how they want kids this whole time, and then you turn around and go, oh, actually, sorry forgot to tell you. Didn't want to tell you, didn't know how to tell you. I've known this thing for forever and I just didn't share it with you because that I think would build a lot of resentment in your relationships.
Yeah, I genuinely think we don't have to overthink this one in a way, And I don't want that to be insensitive, but I think it's best for you to say, hey, like, this is my situation. So if someone says hey to you on kids, you're like, yeah, actually, I really really do Unfortunately I can't actually carry my own so it might be or have my own. Sorry, you haven't actually said Carrie, You've just said have so I don't know
what your situation is. Maybe that means biologically you can't have your own children and it will look different for you. But I do think it's a conversation that if it is brought up, that you just say it and you don't say it with a way where it's like you're apologizing to them or anything like that, because it is just a part of who you are and your journey and your story and your body, and that is it. That's a part of your package. And I don't think
that's anything to feel shameful or be embarrassed for. Or I hate the fact that you're even overthinking it now and it's probably giving you a level of anxiety, Like God, when do I tell a potential partner you're thinking about it?
A lot for you to written this in Yeah, but I understand why it's so totally I do too. You know there are going to be people out there. I mean, you haven't said whether you're in a heterosexual relationship or not, but there's going to be people who and I'm saying, I'm guessing because otherwise, you know, you'd be able to figure it out. There will be men who having children
is a number one priority for them. They want to be a dad, they want to have kids, and that's going to be something that you will find out pretty early on in the conversations, you know, like, and you will know that maybe that's not someone who there's going to be a great potential in pursuing a relationship with. But you will also meet other people who are like, yeah, I've thought about the idea of kids. I'm not sure, like you know, haven't met the right person for it yet.
People's perspective on whether or not they want to be parents.
Not everybody's idea is fixed, and a lot of people aren't one hundred percent sure, and their willingness and excitement around having kids really kind of kicks into gear when they find someone who they want to do it with, you know, Whereas like, I know a lot of people have had the conversations of like, yes, the idea of having kids is something that I would like to explore, but I want to be with you more, you know, like that's and I mean, that's something that you talking
about like those relationships absolutely exist. So I don't think that you should like disclude yourself or think that like dating is going to be so much harder for you in finding someone because of this and because of what you're going through. So I mean, I'm so sorry that
it is something that you have to navigate. And I don't in any way want to make out that it's not a huge deal, because it is for you, clearly, But I just don't think that you owe a responsibility to anyone that early on in dating.
You just don't yeah or involuntarily like you don't need to bring it up as if like, hey, I have something I need to admit, I need to tell you something. You know, I've got a year to live, Like, it's just a part of who you are, and there's so many people who are in the exact same situation. So and I hope you're not listening to this thinking that we're diminishing it or your feelings, because we're absolutely not.
I just don't want you to feel shame embarrassment about it and going to dating like you are the burden, because you're absolutely not.
All right. Question number two.
My boyfriend's best friend has a great partner and three kids who have become a big part of our life. We always saw them as the perfect family until two months ago when we found out that he's been cheating for over a year and got a girl pregnant. Of course, pregante Jesus. His partner was the one who told us and asked us not to say anything. She is a very proud person and was obviously a mess. I supported her and of course trying to say all the right things.
But nearly three months later, she's just still with him, seemingly in denial, while he acts like nothing happened. My boyfriend and I are struggling with all the lies as he used their friendship to cover his tracks multiple times. Do I keep being friends with them and pretend this didn't cause so much hurt? I'm worried we will lose these kids because we have hardly seen them since all
this has happened. I think she's saying, like, the connection with the children, yeah, and we really just don't know what to do.
Advice please?
What a dick?
Nob This takes a different level on We often have conversations about I don't agree with my friend's morals. They're cheating, What do I do do I have to be around them? I don't like my friend's partner. This is a little bit different because not only do you not agree with what your friends are doing or what he has done, but he's also used your friendship to do it.
He has used you as the excuse.
Hey, I'm going to catch up with Brian today. I'm going away for the weekend with Brian, whatever it is. Meanwhile, I'm assuming Brian has no knowledge, because if your husband did know that he was the reason, or he was the excuse and he went along with it, that's adding another layer. So I'm going to assume he didn't know
he was the excuse. But then you got to think if you were going to use a really close friend as an excuse, surely you would be telling them in case it came up in conversation, Hey, just so you know I was with you this weekend.
No, because there's so much secrecy and shame obviously, like he's cheating, he can't then say to his friend, Hey, I'm using you as an alibi because I'm fucking this other person.
But they probably would be people that do It.
Was just a terrible mess of a situation where he was on all fronts in order to get away with what he was doing.
Yeah, I think it's difficult with the kid aspect too. It's easy to pull yourself away from a friendship if it doesn't serve you anymore. But when you have an attachment and you've said you're very close to their kids, almost sounds like you've got that like auntie, uncle god parent relationship and they've become a really integral part of your life, it is harder to extract yourself from that. But what I will say is if you despise him and are so disgusted by him that much, then you
can't force that friendship. You can't fake that. You can't fake being around them. Doesn't mean you have to lose your friendship with her, but I do think it's a discussion that you need to tell her, like, Hey, I'm really I'm really struggling. I'm going to support you if you want to stay because you've made the decision. Maybe they've made the decision to work through it for the family and for the kids, but.
You still have to be okay with it. You still get to choose the people that.
You have in your life and that who you hang around with totally.
I think that this is a really, really hard one because the reality is your friendship has changed. Regardless of whether you talk about it or you don't talk about it. Your friendship's change because he's not the person that you thought he was. He doesn't behave in a way that's congruent with the morals and the ethics and everything else
that you have in your relationship. And because he's not talked about it at all, like by the sounds of things, he's just never said anything like she's spoken about it to you, but he's just pretended like nahhing has happened. There's no accountability, you're not seeing any remorse. So therefore it makes you question his intentions even more. I would say, in this instance, if you were ever going to even remotely salvage this friendship, a conversation probably has to happen
between your husband and his friend. Like I think you've obviously had many conversations with the wife, I think a conversation needs to happen between those two. But I also do think that if his wife wants to pretend like this didn't happen, and she wants to stay in that relationship, and they're just brushing everything under the carpet. There is absolutely nothing that the two of you can do about that,
like that's their prerogative to do. So, however, it is understandable that it's changed your perspective on their relationship and also on the friendship, because you know you can no longer just happily go out on your couple dates and both be talking about, you know, like how great you are, aware you're at all like the things that's happening in your life, because all you're thinking is you're a fucking liar.
You've been having an affair free year, and you've got another woman pregnant, Like I don't know you, I don't know who the person is. And this is the thing about cheating, It's like it doesn't just affect the person who's in the relationship. Of course, it affects that person
the most, but it affects everything. It affects all your friendship groups, and there's so much repair work that needs to be done, not just with your partner, that with all the people who you're lying affects, and like the friendships that it deteriorates as well.
I would also try, if you haven't yet, to really talk to your friend and understand why she's staying and what level they've gotten to, and try and understand his actions. What has he done to repair the situation after is he put in a lot of effort, Because sometimes we can feel a bit of an ick for our friends or a level of discuss for our friends when they are staying in a situation that we can't understand why.
And maybe that is what is happening to a level here because you're like, Wow, three months later, she's in denial, She's just there. I can't believe it. Yeah, yeah, I think you need to understand why and what she's going through. It's not always black and white, and leaving a situation sometimes is really hard. They have kids and they've been married and they're together. So I would try and understand see where she's at, still continue to support her before
you make any drastic decisions. Yes, this is about you as well, but indirectly it's more directly about what your friend is going through at the moment.
I mean, and also you know she might be a very private person, but there's no way that she's just brushed this under the rug in terms of her own relationship, like she is suffering yeah, three months on finding out the husband's had an affair for a year and got another woman pregnant, Like, she is suffering, and she is suffering quietly, And it may be because she no longer wants to share with you how she's feeling, because she's
made the decision that she wants to stay. But that doesn't mean that she's in a place of like denial or pretending like it didn't happen. It just means that she's humiliated, Like this is a truly humiliating thing to go through finding this out. I'm so interested, Like, is the person who we got pregnant having the baby?
Like, yeah, is he going to be in there life?
How do you just brush this under the carpet and pretend like it didn't happen, Like I mean for an aftermath, like, please tell us if he's going through with it. I also think as well, the only thing I want to add to this is three months later, it's still very fresh, Like we don't know how this is going to pan
out in the long term. I would say, do what you can to still be a part of the kid's life, but I think for your own preservation and if you really do just have, like you said, Britt, the ick or like a disgust for your friendship without having a conversation to try and repair it, and without there being some sort of level of accountability or understanding or even like some showing of remorse from him, It's almost impossible for you, guys to sit down with him and think
like that he's the person that you once did because you're opinions of him have forever changed.
And also, like we always say, put your own oxygen mark gone first and you're most important, And I mean I believe that in a lot of aspects. But in this situation, of course, you're going to do what is right for you if it's troubling you the friendship and you don't want to be in anymore. But at the end of the day, the core part of a friendship is that you are there for a person when they go through their ups and downs. So I would hate for your immediate response to be, hey, I'm not going
to be a part of this anymore. I feel like your immediate response needs to be there for your friend, try to understand her and support her, and then make your decisions on what you want to do with that friendship. As a whole.
It's hard though, isn't it.
It's hard though when you're like, I want to be there for her, but he's not outwardly taking accountability. And the thing is is with cheating, right, when someone doesn't take accountability in more ways than just with their partner, like other people knowing, then there isn't social accountability, right.
It's like he gets to go on and save face and everyone still think he's just this perfect guy, and there hasn't been any sort of like showing up in terms of like show going up truthfully in your.
Relationships, brit I have a question for you.
Have you ever been in a situation where you're friends with someone and someone's cheated or you found out something about someone that changed your opinion of them and change the trajectory of the friendship.
I have had friends in the past that have cheated on their partners, so they were my friend that did the wrong thing, and I maintained those friendships with them. I didn't agree with it, but I really tried to understand the why and what are they going to do about it afterwards? And where is that going to go? You know, because that's the important thing for me. I just would hate in this situation for you to end your friendship because of something that your friend's husband did.
That's where it comes down to me. I think there's maybe there needs to be some lines drawn in the sand before you make these really big life altering decisions if they are a really good friend, because part of friendships is you're not always going to agree with what your friend does, but you do need to be there for them in the rough parts. Otherwise, what is the point of a friendship. Your friendship's not only there for the highs and the fakeness and the really top surface level stuff.
Lots of people go.
Through really traumatic things and that's when you do need friends. So maybe you need to dig a little bit deep with her before you make these decisions. That's my only Yeah, my only worries you were going to pull away from something that he did, which isn't necessarily fair on her.
Yeah, But I think about this, and like when I think about my past relationships, we you know, when I was with my ex who cheated, we had couples that we were friends, like my friends. They were our couple friends, you know, when it kind of because I would obviously go to my friend and I would tell her what
had happened. And then a couple of months later, like I was in repair mode because I'd gone back to him and everything else, and we didn't have kids, Like we didn't have those things that make it even harder to leave. They got to a point where my friends didn't respect him, and like my friend's partners didn't respect him, so like we went from being able to hang out as like a couple friends to my friends and their partners being like, I want fucking nothing to do with him.
He's a flog, and like that really affected my friendship.
Then it forced me into a situation where I had to choose my relationship over my friendships. And like, now, you know, obviously, years later, I've done the repair work and I'm still friends with everyone, and I can look back and go, that was a terrible situation. But I just so feel for this woman who's trying to keep
her family together totally. She's trying to keep a family together, and she has a partner who seemingly is not taking responsibility, and I just don't know how this is going to pan out for everyone.
All Right, let's talk Hall Passes. My partner of seven years has asked what I would think of having a whole pass for one night with a complete random We're twenty five, and he says he would like to experience other sexual partners. Since we've been together since we were eighteen. I am not opposed to the idea, and I have thought about it before. He has said it would be with a stranger and only once, and we would never tell each other the when, where, who, why, what once
we had done it. I am leaning towards a yes, but have an underlying fear that our relationship wouldn't be the same afterwards. He is one hundred percent of my penguin, and I believe we will last a lifetime for sure. I guess my question for you is is this a reasonable request? And what boundaries would you put in place around it.
This is fascinating and I think look could be great, could be playing with fire. My only question is, and the only thing that feels like it wouldn't align with me if I was going to open up my relationship, because obviously everyone does this shit differently, and I think your best bet would be actually to speak to people and to do some research on people who have successfully
opened and closed their relationship. None of us, the three of us have had experiences where we have successfully navigated open relationships and then close that relationship again. We can have our opinions, but like, don't go have skin in the game.
Put it that way.
My only thing though that worries me is you say we will never speak about when, where, or once we have done it. That means that to you and mentally and emotionally, that relationship is then open because you have no caveat as to when it has happened and when it is now closed again. And I think that that's very dangerous for a monogamous relationship if that's what you want as your end goal, because who's to say that it has happened, Who's to say that it's still happening?
And also, if it has happened, who's to say it's not going to happen again? If he never has to have a conversation around the parameters of which the rules are.
I totally understand the way he's feeling. I want to start by saying that it's pretty normal to have these feelings of is the grass greener? What are other experiences like when you've never been with anyone else, when you're eighteen and you get together. You're an adolescent, you've just finished high school, and all of a sudden, you're in your mid twenties. You think you're going to be with this person forever. Like I think you can truly love someone but be very curious as to what else is
out there in the world. So I would say those feelings are normal, but not a lot of people go down the track of then acting on them and opening him. The first thing that jumps out at me is when you said, what boundaries would you put in place if you did it. I don't like the fact that he has come to you and set the boundaries straight away. He has said it will be with a stranger only once, and we'll never tell each other about it.
That's not how this works.
Open relationships need to be completely consensual, and they need to be so many boundaries and rules that are set by both parties. If you decide to open this, you get equal say into what you're comfortable with and how it works. Personally, if I were to go down this track one day, I would never let it happen without
me knowing about it. I think I would want to know, not necessarily all the details, but I would want to know that it had happened, And there needs to be a level of if you decide you want to know more, that he tells you about it, because that is what will be destructive. If you start to ask questions and he says, hey, we set the rule. We're not talking about it. I'm not telling you if I did it. That will drive you insane, will be the demise of the relationship. Yeah.
My other thing in this though, like, and I worry because I'm like, I don't want you to do something because you feel as though you have to, and I know you've said you've said okay, like you know, I'm okay with exploring the idea and what not. My thought is is that there are other ways that you can explore other sexual partners without it having to be this like, he gets to set the rules. We're going to open the relationship, and I'm never going to know when it happens.
It seeds to fuck when everyone's but not tell me at some point.
It's gonna happen. The thing is is, you know you could potentially seek out having a threesome that would be a consensual, additional way of having another sexual relationship without it being you know, not being part of it. He could if he really wanted to go to a sex worker, which is then a transactional sexual experience. The only thing I think that you need to keep in mind is that it isn't easy. It isn't easy to find someone to have sex with, Like you have to put groundwork in.
You either have to go on the dating sites or you've got to go out at night. You've got to put in the flirting. Like if you're going to have a one night casual sex experience with someone, there is effort that has to be put in in order to
manufacture that relationship. And so I really want you to be aware of what that effort looks like, because that could be the part that feels the most damaging or the most hurtful, because it might require flirting with one girl that didn't work out, got to flirt with another girl,
Okay that didn't eventuate. I'm texting this chick over here to try and like, you know, I've got to go on a couple of dates in order to then, you know, I think be really really clear about what constitutes this one night whole pass pass out, because you can't just meet someone in a corridor and go, hey, you want to fuck a right?
Cool?
Like, this is it, and then we can't tell anyone about it. It requires energy and it requires effort, and how are you going to feel about that energy and that effort and everything else that goes into opening up
this relationship. See, I just think so many conversations have to happen, and I think seek out as much information as you possibly can around how to open a relationship successfully and also how to close it again, because that's what I think looks like is important to you, is some sort of long term monogamy.
Well, you've also said that you're worried that your relationship is going to change if you do it. Absolutely it's going to change. That's one hundred percent guarantee. It is not the same as it was. Feelings will be different, thoughts will be different, the way you interact is different.
And I say that because I have some pretty good friends that are in an open relationship, both of them consensually, and even though they were both wanting the same things and they went into it that way, it absolutely changed to the point that they're like, oh, this isn't how I thought it was going to be. And I want to close it again, and it has to be fluid enough to be able to close it whenever you want.
If something changes, even if you do close it again, you do have to go in knowing that something has changed, something has happened in the relationship. Even if you both said yes, it will change the way you think and feel and interact with each other, not necessarily.
For the worse.
It could be amazing. You both could love it, and it could be exactly what your relationship needs. But it very well could do the opposite. So you need to be one hundred percent on board. Not doing it for anyone else. Go into it with open eyes, knowing that things will change, and yeah, maybe seek some outside resources. We've done podcasts with people in really open flowed relationships. We've done it with people that are in quadruple relationships,
three people in relationship. We've done so many different types of podcasts that.
You know, the one thing that is like the constant every single person that we have ever spoken to who has navigated as successful opening up or closing of a relationship, This same thing that every single person says is that it requires the most deepest level of communication and trust, like it requires so much more trust and honesty than what a normal heterosexual monogamous relationship requires, because that's like
a set and forget, Hey, we're going to be monogamous. Cool, we're a monogamous and these are the rules of monogamy. Whereas opening the relationship up means if you want to know information, you have to sit down and have those uncomfortable conversations and understand the wise and understand what it is that they're doing and who is it that they're meeting.
And I think that very few people can navigate open relationships without knowing any of the parameters around it and just have this like I don't want to know about it. I'm going to completely ignore anything that you do, and we're just gonna pretend like it hasn't happened. Yeah, that to me, it seems like an unusual way to approach an open relationship.
Yeah, I think the zero information rule is very unusual. You'd be the minority. But there's so many levels. Some people just want to know that it happened, then that's it. They don't want any details. Other people want to know more details. Some people want to know one hundred percent of what happens.
I would want to know everything. I would want to know everything. I'd want an Instagram handle, I'd want.
The whole thing.
I would want to know nothing.
But you want to know nothing because you don't want to open your relationship, you know what I mean, Like you want monogamy. Like I think that for people who are like I don't want to know a single thing, it's because they can't handle knowing, so therefore they can't handle the open relationship.
Which means they're probably doing it for their partner.
Yeah, there is someone in my life that I don't want to give too many details because I don't want them to be identifiable. But they have been in a relationship for a very long time.
With their partner.
They have both it's such a weird I don't want to say strayed from the fidelity of their relationship, but they have both had other sexual experiences outside of the relationship. They are both aware of the fact that that has happened. They want no information further.
But was that cheating or an open relationship because they're very different.
Look I think by you know, standards, it would have been deemed as cheating the first time, and then it was much later that they found out about, you know, the indiscretions, I guess you could call them. And so I think it's more of an understanding now of the fact that if they've been together since they were so young, they're going to be together forever because their lives are set up together and they do love each other so much.
Maybe they just have to accept the fact that there are going to.
Be times where one of them at some point in time, or both of them at some point in time, does like stray from this idea of a closed relationship, and they've just both been okay with that, and they've both said I don't want to know about it. I know that this might be quite a unique situation, but it is a situation, you know. So I know that most of the people we've always spoken to on the podcast are the people who are willing to talk about the fact that they're in an open relationship.
The thing that I think, though, is different about that is that just seems like someone who's okay returning a blind eye to cheating, yes, rather than having both hall pass because they yeah, yeah.
But I feel like that's a slightly different situation.
Well, I think it's more about having a monogamish relationship, you know, like the understanding that most of the time we're in monogamous and then every now and then, if we expect to be realistic about the course of thirty forty fifty years being together and not having many sexual experiences beforehand, maybe there's going to be a time where, like each of them does go and experience someone else.
Yeah, And I think the reason I think that is slightly different is and again, like, of course, all relationships aren't cut from the same cloth, and if it genuinely suits you to not know a thing, then that's fine. But I think that's different because they both just did the dirty and found out about it, and then they're like, cool, you know what, if you're gonna cheat on me in the future, just don't tell me. This is a bit of a different conversation because they're both trying to say,
we want to do it once a year. It's a thing, but I don't want to tell you about it. I just think they're different conversations in a way because your friendship sounds like it's a bit accepting of infidelity. Because they got forced into that situation, they both realize that they're both doing it. And don't want to lose each other. Don't want to lose each other, which is so fine.
I'm saying that because they are obviously so loyal to each other, they just have a different definition of what they want their sexual relationship to be.
Exactly, And it's so fine. Like if two people are consensual in something and that's what they want, that's okay. But I think for this woman that's written in, just don't get forced into doing something because you're worried that you're going to lose him if you're not comfortable with it.
It's also good that he came and had a conversation with you about it, rather than cheating on you, like he could have just done that, which would have been a pretty flog move. But it's nice that there's been a conversation, and it's great that you've been receptive to the conversation because a lot of people could take that as the beginning of the end, or could take it as being super offensive, will be like ego hurt by it.
It sounds like you guys have a very healthy way of communicating, and that seems like the first and best step to potentially navigating this successfully.
Please tell us how that all works out. We would love to know.
Yeah, aftermath this shit.
Yeah, don't tell him, but tell us. That's the difference.
Also, what you were saying, we were about the whole, like the admin of actually having a hook cup.
He will likely not like the fact that it's a lot easier for you to go out and find someone.
I have a hall past one hundred.
Oh no, I disagree. It's so easy for anyone to go and have sex if you want sex these days is made to be the easy. That's why infidelities through the roof. You can find someone to go and have sex with whilst you're in bed with your partner. It is not hard to find someone to have sex with.
It depends on what you are looking for.
Like, I have a really good girlfriend who is like fucking in her sexual peak right now, will happily say that she'll have sex with anyone, and that's great, Like good for her.
She's just who that is.
She's out there for experiences and she is living her literal best life. Yeah, and she could have someone to have se with Monday, Tuesday, Wednesdays, Sat or someday. Like it's not for her, no problem. She's also very attractive but she is like, I am not wanting our relationship. I do not want connection. I want physical gratification and that's what I'm here for. And she's literally living her
best fucking life doing it. And so I think if you're approaching it with that and you're not having to do all of the after care of the dating side of things, then that transaction is easy to come across if you know where to look for it.
He's the kate.
You gotta know where to look for it though online at the pub Nah, it's easy.
No, it's certain apps. There's certain apps, and it's not your Tinder, your Hinge and your dating apps. It's there's specific apps that are for sex. I think the main one is Fieled.
I mean like people might want to go and download it, Like, yeah, from what I've heard, and I think I know the friend that you're talking about.
She's the best.
Fields more also not just for sex, Fields, also for very particular sex. It's for all your kinks, like where you go when you have a very particular kink.
There are lots of different ones, but that's the main one I've ever heard of.
So, yeah, you're if you're interested.
You guys are giving Hinder mumble hinge too much grace.
They're all hook up.
As they are hookup apps, but I think realistically there's more to weigh through because you've got to figure out what someone's after. Whereas Field and that is the one I was trying to think of. It is one hundred percent. If you're on that, you're on it because you want to have sex. You're not on it because you want to like have a friendship and go out for coffee on a Saturday walk.
I have a friend on Field and I was talking to her recently. She was just hooking up with someone different every two days. She just goes on there, she goes for a walk, and she goes for the coffee with them to suss them first, because she definitely wants to still make sure that she's interested, so she does the coffee in the walk. But like the frequency of hookups, I'm like, get it girl, Like it.
Was they were living by I know, I love this because I it's so far from my life being like, you know, in an eight year monogamous relationship.
But I was like, okay, so what with this app?
I was like, if you've arranged to have sex with someone and they've shown up to your house and like they're not what you expected, or because obviously sometimes you can you're dating, well, no, when you're dating someone rocks up and they lie they're you know, they said they're six foot, they're five to two. Like what happens if someone shows up and they're just like not the version? And she was like, oh, I still have sex with them. She's like, I don't care because I'm just here to
I have sex with them. She's like, it doesn't matter to me as much that they're not exactly the person that they said they were on the profile.
She's like, because it's a it's a transaction of an experience.
She's like if they're an absolute fucking creep or like they've made me feel uncomfortable, She's like, that's a different thing.
She's like. But apart from that, she's like whatever, Like I'm here for a good time in a long time.
It's so interesting, and she's like, have sex, get out of my house. It sort of gives grinder vibes, like grinders, yes, so like it is what it is, you know that you're going there for it, you leave, well, I mean I'm not on grinder. Shockingly, but all my friends that are on grinder say the same thing.
It is like the.
Easiest, quickest, quickest, quickiest, It is the easiest, quickest, most intentional site.
I take it back, maybe because I did I did put in so, like, you know, saying that the required time that it takes to actually like procure that type of relationship, yeah, could be the thing that would be the most upsetting part. That's why it's important to talk about this. It's important to talk about the ways in which you're going to navigate this because like, as we've established, he probably doesn't need to be on you know, bumble for example, Like it doesn't need to be on that.
That's not an efficient way to find someone to just have sex with once and then never ever ever again. If that's the actual rules of this engagement. Yeah, And my rules would be things like not.
That I'm gonna do this.
Everyone Ben would nervo, neither would I mean, but my rules would be like no phone number swapping and no emotional connection. So like, if you did it, it's that person once and you don't get to talk to them and figure it out for a week, two weeks. You don't get to swap messages like you are one and done, buddy. I don't want you to be able to contact them. I want you to go onto an app like that
if you were going to do it unmatch afterward. None of this emotional connection, none of this follow up, none of this checking in. It's like, yeah, you're in and you're out.
Literally. Yeah.
But so there's so much trust that's required. There's so much trust that's required. You can put those rules in place, but you have to trust that someone's following through with the things that they say, the things that you've mutually agreed.
I think you've just made me realize that the you know, the boyfriend in the situation, the partner in this situation, who has brought her this idea of the hall pass. I think a really good question for you to ask is do you want to have sex with someone else or do you want to have like a romantic flirt interest, feel that desire from someone else, Because they're actually two different things totally and well.
Hall pass historically is like who would you have sex with once if you could?
Yeah, But I think defining that is important.
Yeah, because if it's actually that you just want to feel desired by someone else, and like flirting with them
and stuff. That to me would imply that there's a bit more of an emotional connection potential, whereas if it was just the physical act that you've only ever been with each other and you want to go and sleep with someone else, you would likely I mean, I think the best case scenario would be a sex worker for that, because it's like it is a literal transaction, like Laura said, So that might be another good question to ask is what are you wanting to get out of the situation,
What are you wanting to feel from that situation?
So I reason it's just experience. Eighteens been with anyone else? Five No, when they got together, he was eighteen, he's never been with anyone else, and he doesn't plan on it. If they want to get married, there's always going to be a very natural human curiosity whether it doesn't mean that you love each other any less. And I know because I felt the same thing. I was with my partner from sixteen for eight years fifteen, even like we were like high school sweethearts, and I remember those same
I don't know, do you call him intrusive thoughts. Those same intrusive thoughts started to come in at the end of my relationship where I thought I loved this person so much and I could see myself them being a life partner.
But I was like, I can't die.
I never been with anyone else. What's it like to be with someone else? What's it like to have someone else touch me? What sex like with someone else? What's intimacy like with someone else? It didn't mean I loved him any differently, But you're just human and all of a sudden, you've only had this one experience with someone in one connection, and I think could be remiss to say it's not a normal feeling. Some people it's absolutely
fine and they bury the feeling. Some people it manifests and to the point where it probably has with your partners, probably been thinking about this for quite a while, which is why he has brought it up. So it's fascinating and it's interesting. Doesn't mean it's the end of the relationship. Could make it better, but yeah, please aftermath the shit out of that.
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