“I started my law firm, then moved to DUBAI” | Ruby Powers

I used to think it was just cake and tacos and I'm fine , instead of actually using the right core values in my hiring .

In this episode , ruby shares her incredible journey of running a law firm remotely while navigating the complexities of immigration law . We dive into the nitty-gritty of building a strong team culture across borders and why hiring for cultural fit can be a game changer .

Plus , ruby reveals how embracing technology can streamline your operations and keep client relationships thriving . Streamline your operations and keep client relationships thriving even from thousands of miles away . But that's not all . We'll also discuss the must attend ABA tech show and why it's essential for staying ahead in the legal tech game .

If you're ready to transform your law practice and discover how to thrive in this new era of remote work , then buckle up . Let's dive into the wisdom of Ruby Powers and learn how to live life beyond the briefs .

She's a board member on the ABA Tech Show and she's doing more things with less time than just about anybody else that I know . So , Ruby , welcome to the show .

It's always in flux , but we are a full-service immigration practice so that means we help those with employment , investment-based family , consular processing , complex citizenship , asylum removal , deportation and humanitarian , as well as even some federal practice with mandamus cases that have been taking too long . So I've been practicing for 16 plus years .

Even before I graduated I was always doing immigration , worked for the Committee on Homeland Security , ut International Student Office , so it's sort of what I eat , breathe and sleep , besides law practice management .

In fact , some judges make us go in person For USCIS , which is where you have maybe interviews in the US under DHS . Department of Homeland Security many of those are in person . If they hold an interview , very rarely can you attend over phone or some other way . And then Department of Labor we don't really have interviews with them .

But Department of State you're usually talking about consular appointments at embassies , consulates abroad , in person . So that's one answer to it .

But in terms of whether or not the client should hire us more colloquially or not , really , we can help a lot of clients on US immigration matters , regardless of their geographic location , because it is federal and we're able to assist them through Zoom phone . Email are fine for USCIS . Electronic is fine for most court .

So a lot of that has only happened in the last few years , made it easier when I ran my law firm from Dubai back in 2011-12 , it was a lot harder and we didn't have WebEx , so it was way harder , sorry .

I'm all like , well , I'm not going to move halfway around the country . If we're going to move , let's move halfway around the world and make it worth it . And so we're two former exchange students . So he's like , okay , so he gets a job in Dubai .

I literally land with a six-month-old on my hip and in a sandstorm , and my firm had already been a year and a half old . But I was able to set it up with an assistant in Houston and ran it via Skype and Dropbox and G Suite , and so it was quite an adventure .

But I only went back to the US one time during that 15-month period and I was able to run it even with a 10 and 11 hour time difference .

Is she watching , uh , soap operas all day ? Like , how did you navigate that ? All of those unknowns ?

And reality is she and I chatted all the time when I was working Dubai time was like 2 pm to about 10 pm Dubai time , which was like US morning to early afternoon . We were chatting on Google all the time and communicating . But yeah , we definitely had worked together before . She had a lot of experience .

I trusted her and she was my eyes and ears on the ground in Houston and then from that , we had a good understanding , even when she was leaving to give me enough lead time for me to find some replacement , and then I was able to hire more people and be able to onboard them , even though it was remotely , and so in reality , that was sort of like my 1.0 .

And when pandemic hit , it was like my 2.0 . I was like you know , hold my beer . I got this and it was like so it's interesting because , know , hold my beer .

So I have an ea in the philippines and he works synchronous to us , meaning that he's up all night working on our , our stuff , and he tells me there's a whole 5% to 10% of the economy is in this subculture and so he's not alone in that . But you were working 2 to 10 . Is there a subculture of people that are working effectively ? Us hours in Dubai ?

No .

A lot of them didn't work and so I would hang out with them during the morning , do play dates , and then so I had this little business card . It was more of like for fun . I was like a mommy by day , attorney by night , because I would .

I'd hang out with all the nannies and the moms and there was one dad stay at home dad , um and uh during the day , and there was one dad stay-at-home dad during the day , and a lot of them if they did have a job , it was because it was sort of like a briefcase career or something you could travel with it and you could do it wherever .

But they were all there because another spouse had a visa that brought them there , and then in the afternoon I would just have theanny take over , cause my husband was in other countries , like he was in Abu Dhabi or Saudi Arabia or you know , johar somewhere .

He was somewhere and , um , and I'd be like , okay , I have to call again , um , and then , uh , she'd help me . Um , she was from the Philippines .

There's there's a lot of , uh , filipinos in in Dubai , um , and so we , we , we got along really well for that that year or so that we were there , but , um , yeah , there weren't a lot of people like me exactly . So , uh , I think one of the things I missed the most was just that , that interaction .

I think it became more common during the pandemic that you could have , like these little virtual coffees , you know , um , but that really wasn't part of the culture back in 2011 . You're like , if you're going to see me , you're going to see me , or we're going to talk over the phone , maybe , or something like that . But , yeah , I made the most out of it .

Uh , there was like a local Houston number so that it would make it easy for people to call me without having to log in .

Um , what , luckily , for that year and a half before I moved , my firm had been in existence and I had sort of built a niche within consular processing and waivers and so people were seeking me out in that respect because of that expertise .

And , um , I I just went ahead and did marketing like I normally did and um , kept the word of mouth going , um , but it definitely it was a little scary , with that leap of faith , knowing that could I keep generating business to justify you know all the costs , but I was able to because we were able to grow and I did have to get rid of a lot of my

court cases because I wasn't going to be physically there .

You know , I started my firm in November 2009 , during the Great Recession , and so I had a lot of time and not a lot of clients , so I did a lot of hustling , reaching out to a lot of community contacts and doing speeches and writing articles and answering questions on Avvo Avvo was really big at that time and um , so I , I kept that going and I and I

and then you know , getting reviews and um , just doing a lot of the things I , I , I saw that were were working , um , and trying to have happy clients so that they would refer to , you know more , more business , which is what was what was happening .

Um , in fact , I have an interesting story about how , when I was about to leave , my assistant told me she said well , you're going to have to call every client and ask them if they want to stay with you even though you're moving to Dubai , and I said no , I'm going to call every client and I'm going to say , hey , this is what's happening .

I'm moving to Dubai , but nothing's going to change . I'm still going to be able to help you , and I think that paradigm was so critical to me being able to keep things going and sort of as if geography didn't even matter .

One firm was very high tech and back then even like and if you didn't have an email you weren't going to be a client and she never saw the clients in person , it was all remote . So that's really where I got a lot of my idea and she had that niche that I learned from . That . I used as well , um , with waivers and console processing .

And then the other firm I worked for was super , uh , more um , high volume , low tech , um , heavy Spanish speakers and um and more like removal in court and sort of like , um , you know , there was even clients who were illiterate and I could read Spanish better than they . They could , and that was their language and it was .

It was so , so different the two experiences , but it really helped prepare me to have my own firm .

But I am very interested now in because you did it from overseas and it sounds like some of your team is virtual or still virtual assistants or physically not in the office now . So I am interested in the culture building from that aspect .

So what kinds of things have you implemented in the practice to create that consistency , as you've grown , for people who aren't physically present in the office all the time ?

I wasn't keeping tabs on the culture and it was getting a little toxic without me understanding it , and I had a higher turnover . I used to think it was just cake and tacos and I'm fine , instead of actually using the right core values in my hiring and things like that . Instead of actually using the right core values in my hiring and things like that .

So , and then I think , also having lived in about seven countries like UAE , turkey , mexico , spain , belgium and I feel like I'm missing something .

Maybe US , but it really keeps me real to realizing people see the world differently and , with my husband being from another country , my mom was born in Mexico , so what other thing that helps us is that we have a lot of clients from everywhere too , so we also we are always seeing the world from different perspectives , what I would say , because we have a

hybrid situation where some assistants are never come into the office and they're in , like Argentina , honduras , mexico , and then we have other team members that are in , like Arizona , colorado , that have never met people that are working , you know , and we're always having to keep tabs on the time zone when the time changes , which is a pain right .

And then I have to sort of allow the people who like to work earlier to just stick with whatever time zone . Anyway , um , I think the biggest thing is one of the things we do is we have an office meeting every Tuesday and I ask them to be on video so everyone can see each other's faces and just sort of have a little bit more of an interaction .

There We'll do a fun thing , like we'll ask a question and get the participation and sort of like . You know , it was like National Cheese Day or something like what's your favorite cheese ? And then we were all getting hungry talking about it . But , you know , everyone is bringing their different cultures to it .

You know a lot of those things that people were doing during the pandemic to keep everybody together . That's pretty much what we have to do all the time Because we don't want to create like the subcultures of the in-person versus the virtual , even though it's really easy for that to potentially happen .

I think the other thing is like you communicate Like honestly , I don't even know who's in the office and who isn't , like there really is if I could wanted to double check , but it's . It's like we're working seamlessly . You still have access to the phone number , the chat , the email . You have your little chat groups .

Like you're , you're a part of the team , regardless of where , where you are . If you're physically in , like legal teams will do presentations and so that gives them a chance to do some public speaking to the team , but trying to do as much as we can to keep that culture going . But I think the other part of it is in your hiring .

I like that idea with Gino Wickman , traction , people Analyzer and having like those key core values of what you know team . For me it's like team player going the extra mile . You're really passionate about this , this cause and immigration .

And so we keep that in mind when we're interviewing , to make sure , you know , constantly learning , so that when we're hiring we have more of a cultural fit , because I really think whoever you let in is you know that hiring is so critical , because then it can either water down or fortify the culture .

And and and you know that hiring is so critical because then it can either water down or fortify the culture and you know , continue either on the path or distract you from where you're trying to go- the easier thing to do is to pay attention to it once they're in the door and then either re-educate or fire to culture or core values mismatches .

So one of the things that we've been doing that I think is helpful is I'm almost entirely removed from the hiring process .

Like I'll greet somebody at some point but our HR manager my wife does the interviewing and then they come in and they really do panel interviews with whoever they're going to be working with , and then I rely on what the staff tells me or what the team tells me about the person more than what I think about the person .

Because one time I almost hired a paralegal and then I went around the office and asked everybody else what they thought and they , like she was rude to somebody in the bathroom . She let the door shut on somebody's face coming in the door like ignored somebody while sitting in the lobby . Well , I'm glad I asked .

So what is your hiring process to make sure that you're not letting in these culture vampires ?

There they'll go to like a more in-depth interview with a person they would actually work with . So if , like me , my associate , if it's a I don't know law clerk or legal assistant , then the associate would talk to them and ask more questions . We actually divide things up so like there's like more practical things for the first call .

Then there's more of like a behavioral questions which I think are so critical . You know , give me a time in which you just you disagreed with your supervisor and what was the result ? How did you deal with it ? What was your ? What was the result ? And I learned this a long time ago to use the behavioral questions because it gives you an .

It's harder for them to fake it , because they're sort of thinking really quickly , trying to find a time in which it really happened , you know . Or if you say some a typical question like what's your biggest weakness ? And they'll say , oh , I'm , I'm too perfect . Yeah , exactly . But if you think of the behavioral , it's like an actual scenario .

Or give us a time when you had to work with a difficult client and what did you do and how did how to get results and or what happened . And so those behavioral questions are really critical , but they're not everything . And then the other thing is like actually asking , like the skill set type of questions .

You know whether it's legal or admin billing , and you know QuickBooks or something like that , or marketing , like give me , give me a sample of what you would do . Here's a scenario . So we do the multiple process because , like you said , you don't want just one person interviewing because then they could miss something .

You do want to get the feedback , because you want them to want to enjoy working with that person . Um , but I think what that people analyzer I was mentioning is like you could have two resumes in front of you and everything looks about the same , right . But if you're actually purposely asking , do they meet the core values ?

Like are they , let's say in my case , like , are they a team ? Can you give an example of how they work together as a team or are they willing to go the extra mile ? Can they give you an example ?

Maybe you could ask it in a different way so that you're not really prompting that answer , but you're you're trying to get a feedback on if they , you know , are more of a problem solving , problem solver , or more of a problem identifier , and then , like you know , you know , delegating it up instead of actually solving it .

Y'all need to help out , they are , but , um , you know , I need some problem solvers here , um and so anyway , I think there's a lot of good , uh , ways to like and I think you're you , you're doing a lot of those with your firm , um , and to make sure you get the right person , because I think a lot of times it's like , well , just make sure you know how

to do X , y , z , but really that's just , that's not , that's just one piece of it . They're there , they're . You know their personality , the way they see the world Like . Here's another example Are they like the Carol Dweck book , the fixed or the growth mindset ? You know , are they more of a fixed mindset type of thing or their growth Like ?

We want growth mindset people . We want people constantly wanting to learn and improve and say , hey , you know , maybe this could be done better .

And even if you are , maybe you don't probably want them coming before they've given some thought to what do I do next ?

But having somebody who's a core value and a culture fit in your firm and having a culture that can actually be identified within the firm allows them to kind of think through okay , well , given that this is what we're about , how should I solve the problem or how should I think about solving the problem there ?

And it doesn't mean you shouldn't have written procedures , no , but your written procedure can't cover everything because it's you know , there's always something new in the law .

And then you reward your , acknowledge and reward the person who comes up with an idea , as opposed to like , oh , that was a stupid idea . Why did you even say that you know ? Because then that that gives the wrong message . So really , or or not even acknowledging it or not even giving the reason why you're not going to do the idea you know .

So there's a lot of things that unspoken yeah , a lot of the culture is unspoken , spoken ways of doing things , and that's why it's so critical because when you're the boss , or you started the firm or , and you're like up there a lot of times you don't know what the rest of the firm's seeing and observing , and so that's why you need to have other team

members , leaders and keeping tabs on it , and I mean I'd say even having one person be in charge of keeping you know tabs on what is the culture and how do we reinforce it and you know , and continuing to make sure that it's the culture that you do want with the firm . How do you think about ?

Um , and sometimes that makes me nervous because I'm like I'm going to make sure that this is within the bounds of ethics and doing the right thing for the client , um , but like so , um , I met you at the file's Lex Summit and we are just switching over to FileVine now and , as I'm learning and we're building out our platform , there's all kinds of stuff that

my team is doing that I don't know how to do , and I didn't create the process as a leader in your firm about balancing between creating people who can create systems and the need to set guardrails or know what's going on . Does that question make sense ?

And then I've been on so many calls with our different vendors this last year , I guess .

To go high level , I think you have to have a culture where you're open for change and you're not afraid of it . So that's what the leaders need to convey that you're like this is going to be better . And it's sort of like the ad car concept with helping usher people through change . We're doing this .

The reason why is because it's going to make us more efficient , and you know we're . It's all going to be better in the end and it's gonna be a little painful as we're getting there and but we're gonna need your patience as we're toggling between different programs and then learning the new systems .

But then you also want them to start taking ownership , like I need you to take these courses , I need you to understand how to use these programs and then I need you to figure out can we do this better . So that's a component of it .

I mean , I know what you ask is like multiple prongs , because the other prong , I see , is , as leaders , we cannot completely blindly just say , hey , go , move us over to the system and make it all work right , because we're the owners and we're the leaders in the firm . We need to know how things work .

So , like I was in a lot of different calls I might not have been in every single call because that wasn't the best use of my time , but then I would ask a lot of questions I was in a lot of the key calls and I'm still in subsequent calls as I'm trying to piece things together to make sure , because I'm thinking as a business owner , I'm also thinking as

a lawyer , with the ethics component , and I think you really , depending on the size of your firm and what you're trying to do , you need a lot of key roles filled .

You know , and in some cases , in many cases , I think a lot of the tech programs out there are so robust , like Filevine for example , that you need another implementer company that you're working with in many cases .

I was on a call this week and we're connecting you know it's been connected with Bob and we're making it all work together and basically I love that I need to be on those calls because I make I make connections between the different departments .

So I know that it was a it was a big , big question , but I hope that you know , I've come in so many different ways . You know from the big high level , but then you still need to . You can't just give them like a carte blanche and disappear because you know you're building the basically infrastructure .

You have to remember as the tech changes , your operations change and you need to have that open-minded concept . I think about that Zig Ziglar quote about the ham or the roast or whatever , where the husband's like why do you cut off the two ends of the roast to the wife , and the wife's like I don't know , she called the mom .

The mom's like I don't know , my mom did it that way . So they asked the grandma , and the grandma's like I just had a small fan , but then they kept doing it for generations .

And I like to bring that up because a lot of times if you , you , your team , might just be like well , that's because so-and-so told me to do , and then we're like wait , wait , wait , no , no , let's , let's think about this . That's probably not the best thing .

And so I think that's where the culture comes into play , saying hey , if you see a better way to , by all means please tell us , and constantly finding ways to improve , and so then you won't have those instances where people are just doing things because someone told them a long time ago and never adjusted the policy .

Those are the diamonds on your team , if you can find them . So , speaking of tech , let's pivot and talk about ABA Tech Show . I know you're on the board , so what is a huge event ?

It starts around like Wednesday evening and it won't end up until Saturday midday . So it's , it's it's it's a huge event .

I think it's great for small to solos , midsize firms . It's great because there's a lot of it's part like then the vent , the expo hall is going to be filled with great vendors and you can really learn and go talk to them .

I mean , I've seen more vendors there than I've seen at any of the other legal tech conferences that I go to , but so it's part in the vendor hall , I guess expo hall . Then the other part is the CLE , which is great . Almost every speaker speaks twice and they're really the experts in the field .

It's a lot of law practice management , a lot of tech and some nitty gritty in there , so you can really go deep . I'd say we're trying to make all the content about medium to advance for the most part . So that does sort of create like a you know a subsection of people interested in it .

But even if you're not that advanced , I'd say you're still going to learn something . And then the third part , I think , is just the socialization . There's a lot of you know ABA tech show parties and you know dinners , and then there's like vendor events as well .

There's also the startup alley that Bob Ambroji does that first night and it gets a good chance for these new startups to get a chance to be seen in the spotlight . And so I mean , honestly , I get so many great ideas , I meet so many amazing people . It really fuels me for the whole year and I've had a lot of them .

You know people I've met on my podcast and I mean I've heard of companies growing out of the ABA Tech Show because of the people they meet and the ideas and then thousands of savings and improvement of their firm .

So what I highly suggest and if you really , if you're like I don't know , you know , you know I really have these other conferences and stuff you can get the expo hall pass , which is free and that's just to go to the expo hall , but you still can pick up a lot of the ambiance and um and still get a touch of a taste of it .

Right , you can look at a case management software and then check out their competitor , learn that the competitor does something that you didn't hear about in the first pitch . You can go back and ask like , hey , what does texting look like within your platform ? Can you show me ?

So there's a real value , if you're switching any technology or moving to a different vendor in 2025 , to making it to one of these mega shows , and it's a big lift for you to put this on and figure out who's going to speak , who's going to be in the expo hall , and so thank you for your time and your effort that you're putting together towards putting this

on for other lawyers .

I think there's so much changing in technology and in AI that you really want to be on that Rogers innovation curve and the innovators are early adopters and so those are the people who are going to be there . And this is more for like that small , mid-size , solo type of firm . There's other ones out there for larger firms .

But this is more for like that small , midsize , solo type of firm . There's other ones out there for larger firms . But this is really where a lot of the law firm owners go . It'd be awesome if you can bring like one of your administrators , but I mean , if this is your first time , definitely go , make yourself go and put in your budget .

transition some of the duties of making those implementations to that's , that's a real , uh , real underutilized thing for lawyers . So many lawyers just go the owner by themselves and they don't take anybody with them , and I think that's a huge mistake .

You know in the future , as you're , if you hire , you know by that that companies , that software and that program and it can help you have better , more of like a dialogue for improve , for improvement . But but yeah , I completely agree , you need your whole team , you need the buy in .

And maybe you don't hire , you don't buy the program while you're there , but at least you've had a couple of demos and you're talking to other people who are aware of that program that are there because you can really get , get more recommendations or people saying , no , don't use that .

Or you know , because those are the people who are going to know , that are the ones who are going to go to ABA Tech Show .

I'll be there , obviously , and definitely feel free to reach out and get check out my Power Up your Practice newsletter , my podcast and the book which is on Amazon . Thanks a lot , Brian , I appreciate it .