There's a funny nickname that some might consider funny others might not, which was.
What it was called slapfest. I say he turned around and looked at me and goes listen. I can't remember it, but it probably was me. He said I was a very sick man out there, and that's all he'd really say about it. He was quite charming. He could charm me. He charm the female stuff. He charm everyone, the male stuff, even the prisoners to agree.
I'm Andrew Rule is his life and crimes. Today, we have a guest in our studio. His name is Brian Coughlan, and he comes to us after serving something like twenty six years looking after prisoners in one of our biggest and toughest prisons. Brian came to work in the prisons after twenty years working as a photographer at the races, which strikes me as a very interesting juxtaposition of two
different professions. Brian Coglan, who are you and how did you become the man who went from taking pictures of race horses to looking after prisoners at Port Phillip, many of whom were also very interested in racing.
It's true, Andrew, True. What happened. It does seem like an odd crossover. But I used to work with the VRSE or for the racing Victoria and doing the photographs, and through a series of different things, photography changed a lot. Digital photography became a big part of it, and copyright was an issue. And to cut a long story short, I ended my association with the racing industry and had to find something else. Why prisons.
Is it true that you met someone at a dinner party who said, have you ever considered working in the prisons?
Is that true? That part of it is true? Yeah? Is it a school dinner party? And one of the managers from the it do only just opened Port Philip was what year ninety seven, right at that hitching state. Yeah, it opened in ninety seven. This was ninety eight. When I finished at the races, you'd be in your late thirties. I was around about thirty seven. Yeah, and yeah, I
had to find a different career. And of course when somebody suggested a prison, I'm at a dinner party in Campbell I'm not expecting anyone to talk about a prison on the other side of town. Very different anyway, To cut a long story short, I looked at it, and the guy I was dealing with was running the industry's part of the prison. He was trying to get some industries up and running right, and he was talking about getting me over to work under him as a rep.
I suppose to go out and get work for the prisoners, but part of that was I had to do the training. So I went in and started the officer training. And how long did that take? It was about six or eight weeks. I think. Where did you do it? Out at a site close to port far out in Labanon, yep. And the training was fascinating. I loved it. And I said to Rob, the guy who'd come involved, listen, I might try and stay on the floor and actually work in the prison if you don't mind. And he said
I didn't think what I said? Oh no, Well, this has all been fascinating. And the way Group four was selling it back then is they were trying to bring on a sort of a Scandinavian field to corrections.
Group four, of course, is the private company that was awarded contracts to run private prison or prisms in Victoria correct in parallel with the state run prisms.
Yes, yeah, okay, you worked for Group four, not really for the Victorian state. Yes, well I was employed by Group four, but we worked under all the all the same rules as you know, in corrections, through the corrections and the Commissioner's requirements and things like that. So yeah, but we're employed by a private firm, which of course was controversial back then it was.
And they adopted this Scandinavian or Swedish model, which was to treat prisoners sort of as fellow humans, not to stand over them, not sort of that semi military discipline thing, perhaps use their first names, correct, and to try and exert use your unpleasant personality as a tool to keep sometimes unpleasant people in check.
Yes, and how did that go? Well? When they first opened up, it was a shit show, to be honest. It was the prisoners were just running right. There was no ex Pentridge staff. They'd made a conscious decision not to employ Pentridge staff and things like that. And for the first year, which I wasn't there for, it was terrible. They ended up burning down one of the units, Scarf South. There was no locks on the traps. It was just poorly run. There was no interior fencing so all the
prisoners could mix. It was a really average way.
Who designed that. No interior fencing so all the prisoners could mix.
Well to be a problem. Not many, not very much interior fencing. There were the protection yard was separated and the management yard was separated, but the rest of the prison was pretty much open, so there was a lot of standover, a lot of mix. It was just poorly run. How many prisons roughly when you started round about one thousand, so it's.
Early ninety nine, you're there about a thousand prisoners. You were one of how many officers do you think?
Oh? In the staffing numbers weren't too sure. But it was another thing that g foursa Now I don't know if it was the money saving thing or whatever, but they would put three staff into about round about sixty to seventy prisoners.
The ratio was not ideal, not ideal at all. Really, it was corporate being counting, but not idea.
Was completely different to the CV jarls, where the staff would be behind screens or behind it corrections victorious and so it was different. We were literally placed right out in the middle of the unit and hence, you know, no protection around us. We'd have TVs thrown at us, feces, everything So how did.
You go the first week? You go home, your wife says, how it was work? Toda, you assimilated TV and three bags of crap thrown at me?
How was that? Obviously, wasn't that bad every day? But the good thing about working there was there was a real sense of camaraderie in it with the staff in the early days because we're all new to it. But then they did bring in some people with correctional history. Right now, what prompted that? Truth? I think we literally had about a dozen deaths in the first year. That's a few. Yes, was it colera playe? They know there
was a few assaults, a few. I think sixty five percent of them were natural causes, but they probably were brought on a little bit earlier than that. I don't know. I see and speaking to the directors back then, who were English, everything was weird. Like the contracts they got us to sign. We had ten weeks sick leave, and if you were there for three years, it went to thirteen weeks sick leave. Good Lord, and just stupid things like that which we'd never I thought I'd misread my contract.
I thought it said ten days sick leave, which was pretty standard. Good. Now it was ten weeks and they didn't think that Australian staff would exploit it. So we had trouble staffing a prison because everyone who just gove sick all the time. Anyway, over the years we eventually lost that in abas and things like that. No wonder, yes, No, it was crazy thinking and then they're saying, oh, it's a very stressful job. You probably might need a little
bit of time off. You can take mental health days and things like that, and you know, good lord, yeah exactly.
The net result though is things weren't going that smoothly, so they had to get the iron fist inside the velvet glove. When when did that happen and how did it happen?
I literally came onto the floor I think in a brand about March or so of ninety nine and Scarbo South had just been burned down, the places in turmoil, keys were being lost. It was just a so they got some experienced staff in and straight away you could feel it senior only or what no, from management down
like ex governors of Petrie. Yeah, made a comeback to Shane Kelly, Paul S Banana former heavyweight, former heavy heavyweight champions and they actually gave us the permission or whatever to straighten to joined up right, you know, we got to a stage.
It's a nickname that the staff. I'm not saying it's a literally true label, but there's a funny nickname that some might consider funny others might not, which was.
What it was called slapfest. I see. They literally had to take control of the unit. So anyone who bad mouth staff or gave staff a bit of lip, especially the female's there because there was a fifty to fifty female male sort of rafa the word go out, the prisoners would be called up for a visit. There'd be no visit. Ye whack, whack, whack, go back to yourself, watch your mouth. And to be fair, it actually knocked the place straight back into shape.
Well within it and some of the cheekier elements didn't want to leave their cells after a while, Okase they got into trade.
Yes, yeah, Well they became very careful with the way they spoke to staff. Put it that way, because the staff were always because they are all people, people, people persons, they would talk to the prisoners and use their first names. Now, apparently that didn't happen at the government jails, everyone was called by the surname. They expected to be missed a thing, and so the prisoners were quite uncomfortable with it at first, you know, calling you Brian instead of mister Coughlin or
whatever that was. They grew up in a difference exactly, especially the older school ones. But it eventually went over. And you know, it's terribly hard to to pray someone when you're calling them by their surname, you know, or to call them up, you know, if you're using the intercom or something, obviously you do it, but when you're just dealing with them one on one, which you had to do every day.
You're the nice bloke that came from the races, a friendly fellow, good people person, quite not a mean of threatening demeanor. What niche did you find in the jail? What were you good at? And what did you do?
Mostly? Well, it's probably a good word for it, really, because I became what they called a sash officer standard for suicide and self harm. Right, we'd lost numerous prisoners in the first few years at Port Philip. What did the prison Well, I became known as a care bear, one of the care bears, right, so I'd interview every prisoner on a arrival to poor Philip when they came back from court, or if they got a sendence at court, so you know how you feeling, how are you feeling?
And listen. Nine times out of ten it was no one fine, boss or good. It was about what I was expecting or you know whatever. But you know, every now and again you get someone whose cage had been rattled and they thought, shit, I've got to spend the next fifteen years here or whatever, and you just talk them down, or you might offer to contact their family because they wouldn't have seen their family since court or since they've been transit. You could do all that and
I have the authority to do that. Yeah, it was quite good.
It was so you could build reasonably friendly relationships with some people, Yeah, for sure, and beware, of course, you'd be careful not to be manipulated by people. But yeah, depending or you could, with a bit of luck, manipulate
some to lean on others. Now, listeners out there are listening to this and they're thinking, now, who did he actually look after There will be names of prisoners that some of them will be quite well known to the public and some won't but I understand that a fellow that I've had a bit to do with in some ways. I've written a book about this fellow called Raymond Edmonds, who sadly had the alias in the media of mister Stinky.
He was one of the long term prisoners that you knew and cared for, if that's the right word in port Philip, tell me about Raymond Edmonds? What age roughly was he when you got there? He would have been he's about.
Mid fifties or fifties. Yeah, yeah, he was born during World War II, early forties, probably in his early eighties now, so would have been around about mid fifties, I suppose. And when I arrived there, he used to do the rations for the whole prison, right and so his sale was next to a room that was like a storage room that contained everything from bed packs to washing equipment, anything, they'd note, sugar, everything. So he'd do literally on his own,
the rations for the whole jail back then. Back then he did chair and jail for the whole jarl. Yeah, it was like a bit of a prison storman he was, And what was he like?
I know he was a physically strong man when he was a cheer farmer, regarded by young men who knew him when he was a young man as a fellow that could lift up a very heavy trailer hitch. And he was actually a crack shot to a very good shot. But he was a strong man in the sense of farmers being strong men. I don't know that he was renowned as a fist fighter, rule or anything, because he wasn't a criminal per se. He was a deviate, but not well he was exactly, but he was never a bank robber.
He was in on some pretty heinous crimes, but when you're actually dealing with them on a day, you could He was quite charming. He could charm. He'd charm the female stuff, charm everyone, the male stuff, even the prisoners to a degree. And I often wondered how he kept control of them, because when he moved on to a bigger unit, he would literally just sit by the front door of the unit, and the prisoners had come up and ask him for stuff. And he was very fair.
He was always, you know, whether the protection mainstream management, didn't matter what you were in on, he always, you know, blokes were trying to stand over you know, terrorists or pedophiles or something like that. He'd make sure they always got their meals, got everything that they're entitled to. Really, yeah, he was very fair along those lines. He was like so institutionalized. This was his life, so he just had to make the most of it.
Now, this is just for our listen sake, and this is a man who this is his known offenses. He murdered a pair of teenagers. Gary Haywood been a medil in Sheperdon or near Sheperdon in nineteen sixty six. He also and was not caught. He was an unknown assailant. He was subsequently caught nineteen nearly twenty years later because
he's a fingerprint. The fingerprinted him at Aubrey over an indecent exposure charge, and they realized that this print matched up not only with the murdered boys car, Gary Haywood's car, but with Prince left at many rape scenes in Melbourne in the eastern suburbs. So our nineteen sixties killer was in fact our nineteen seventies suburban rapist. And he was
a very prolific rapist. And although he was only convicted of several rapes, like five or six or something, he thought that he did dozens and I'm only fifteen to sixty or god knows what. So he was a seriously violent offender over at least two decades, this guy, And I'm just wondering sort of how he sort of could pull much weight in jail with that history.
Well, as I said, it is literally beyond me how he survived so long without being assaulted, you know, because of the nature of his crimes. Listen, he wasn't obviously proud of them, because I spoke to him numerous times about it. And I actually returned from a party one night. Where as you do if you work in the prison, people ask you questions. Someone asked me if I knew him.
I said I do, And she then told me that she escaped an attack by him and told me about this and it was up on the border, I think it was around a Choker or Moamma or somewhere up that way, and gave me some details about how she was on a bike and some guy jumped out of the bushes and pushed her off the bike and tried
to assault her, and she got away. So I walked in may or may not, but I raised her with him the next day he said, oh do last night and I said, oh, I went to a party, and I said, actually, I was talking to a girl who thinks that you might have attacked her at one stage. And he sort of pulled a quizical head and I said, listen, I don't know. I'll tell you what she told me and see if it makes sense, and told him I was up on the border and he was living in
a humpy and in some bushes near the border. And he turned around and looked at me and goes, listen, I can't remember it, but it probably was me. He said I was a very sick man out there, and that's all he'd really say about it. And I thought, oh, that's weird, but he didn't deny it. And when he said it could have been made, he said that sounds like what I would have done. And I was, gee, that's weird.
That's Raymond Nebman's mister stinking. And he was quite to this day, even though he's quite old. Will never be released chair Yeah, he won't be released, I don't think, not except possibly on his deathbeat or something. Now, there are others and more recent people that have become well known more recently who are well known to you, and one of them would be Tony Mockbell.
Yes, yes, tell us about Tony. Well, when I was still working at the races, we'd first run into a crew that earned the Tracksuit Gang nickname this Lateneah exactly, and they'd all turn up in their flashy track suits and carl chains the work, looking looking the part, but they'd bet like there was no settling, you know. They'd take on a few of the bigger bookies back then, and as I knew of most of the bookies back then, I don't know who dubbed them the Tracksuit Gang, but
that's what they became known as. And anyway, to cut along story short turned out to be Tony Mockbell and his brothers, and next thing you know, they're in a poor Philip on various different charges and things. For three of them were there, I think at this stage anyway, And as I was doing the sash up in my office in the missions building which was separate from the units, and it wasn't uncommon for Tony to come up and stick his head in and so how are you going?
And I say good? He goes, can you ring Jimmy Cassidy for us and for our listeners benefit?
Jimmy Cassidy is a Melbourne Cup winning jockey in a very very good jockey, but a bit of a scaley wag. We know that because he was rubbed out as a jockey for at least two years for communicating with people like Tony Mockbell and various other gangsters.
Yeah, well yeah, I was all at arms distance to that, obviously, but I said, mate, I'm sure our phones are bug to. You're not using my phone, you're not doing this. And then it turned out that my brother in law was training horses for him, or my brother in law's brother. Actually, oh, I know Jimmy Coleman, who's a character. And I ranged him immediately and said, Jimmy, for God's sake, look at you know what are you doing? I said, you know who these guys are, because we'd never had any run
ins with criminals or anything like this. And he goes, well, I'm starting to hear and I said, okay, well just be careful, you know, and he goes yeah, and he said, listen, all I talk about is racing. And I said, yeah, but he's phones. This guy's phones will be bugged and everything like that. And he goes and Jimmy says to me, well, that might explain when my horses keep getting knocked off every time I tip him one. I said, you're tipping it to half Victoria Police. You know it's wonderful, is
that right? That's true. That listen. I know I've heard all these things about Tony. He said, I just deal with who I deal with. He's fine. He pays his bills, he's courteous. He always pays bills. Or sometimes jim have to remind you. Yeah, sometimes sometimes he'd get a little bit slower and maybe cash flow issues. I'm not too sure, but and.
He have to you mention it, and he could mention someone outside to fix it up.
I don't know if it ever got to that stage. But you know, well he was inside out. He paid, he must have got something. Well, that's true, that's true, A relatively a friend to do. Yeah, possibly in cash. I don't know. I never really went down that track because I thought, oh god, I've got to keep away, you know, I've got to keep an arms distance from these guys. But having said that, never had any issues of them. They're always polite. The three of them were
always polite and always quite funny. You know, quite interesting company. We talked racing. We talked racing a lot. They loved it and I loved it. Yeah, and broke down a few walls and there, you know, I saw ex jockeys and I saw bookies and inside inside. Yeah, an approximate idea first names only. Okay. You know there's one that wasn't too famous. He was a rails book maker. We everyone dubbed him fat Harold, but he was still stay fat, insight poor. Oh fat Harold came in with a broken wing.
I don't know how he got off the bus. So he demanded to be put into the hospital. And I think they said, mate, it's broken. You know, we'll fix it if it needs fixing, but we can't do any more with it. You've got to go down to the units. So anyway, he did his time. I think he was in on embezzlement or something. He was an accountant or something, so he was no physical record jockeys. Yeah, mainly things like drink driving.
And I remember one from Gippsland that ran down the freeway the wrong one killed.
Yeah, that one was there. He was there, very good horseman, well, lousy driver, yes, bad drunken yeah, it looks like he's probably given up the grog and his nephew's riding very well. His nephew wrote it double the other day. So yeah, no, nothing serious with the jocks, you know, they're always just in on drink driving and stuff like that. All though that was that was a fatality obviously. Yeah, that was
a very good Yeah, that was a bad one. Yes, But I think having worked at the races gave me that laconical Yeah, you could talk to them and they liked it. You sound a bit like Joe Brown, the old time race caller. Oh really, do you remember him? I do? Yeah, I wish I could have called racers. They would have been good. Oh yeah. Yeah. So I think that that racing background actually made it easier to
deal with these people. You know, you're dealing with everyone from you know, the big wigs and right through to.
Strappers with the bum out of them exactly. Yeah, and that's handy in jail. That ability, well, it's proved to be handy over the years.
Yeah.
So you were in there for twenty five or six years, so there's other people that have cropped up come into your view. And now again Mockbell went out again because he yeah. I think now he must have been there briefly then got out. Then did his runner did he?
Well, we have captain, We had our capitan captain and of the should he escaped on I forget the name of the boat, the guy who Yeah, and one of the crew, and they loved him. The Greek fellaws, Yeah, were they there, Yeah, yeah, they were in. They both died in jail. I can't think of the captain's name, but Isa was one of them. And I think they both passed away in jaril. And because I used to say to him, you know, will they say, oh, you're not Tony. Yeah, and I'd say, what did you say?
He goes, No, I never give him up. I never say anything, you know, all of this sort of stuff. So they actually liked him and yeah, and didn't have any real hard feelings against him. It seemed like, yeah, but anyway, they obviously knew what they were doing, so.
Pretty good at it. And your memories of Tony Mokbell, are you sure that it strucks where that that'll be? After he they prought him from Greece. Oh, yes, and you know he vanished, he got tipped off. He vanished. Everybody said, he's run away, you know, and he's at the Camel Races in Dubai where you know, he's in
the container that got on a ship together. And the reality was he was hiding at Bonnie Dune and then he did this trick where he sailed in his own yacht that he bought from Western Australia over to the Middle East and the end of Greece. Correct then he was subsequently arrested very wonderfully in Greece with his wig on and he was brought back to Australia and he gets banged up and goes to Jalen.
That's when you've that's when I ran into view.
I think you might have seen at some point Carl Williams.
Very early, very early, when he was a poor Philip, that he was a nobody. Literally, well, you wouldn't have paid attention to him. And what happened next, did he Well that's when it kicked off, when he got out and we had I think it was Jason Moran in there at the time. Jason was going to go down to Fulham, I think, and wouldn't go. I think it was maybe from a bar blue in King Street, him and Alphonse I think went on and slashed up a bar and that's right, and that lead of course to
Elphant's being murdered. Yeah. When I say Carl Williams was there, he was there, but he was a nobody was there. And then when he came back in later he went to Barwin. He didn't come to Portfellow because there's too many underworlds at poor Fellow. He was pretty much a no one, you know. He wasn't any trouble or anything. No one thought anything about him. Really, we might leave our first episode there.
Thanks Brian for joining us and we look forward to talking to you again.
Thanks Andrew, it's been a pleasure. Thanks for listening.
Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for True Crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot com dot au, forward slash Andrew rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at news dot com dot Au. That is all one word news podcasts sold And if you want further information about this episode, links are in the description.
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