Her burning body was found nine hours later, So what happened? So the missing nine hours is what we're really trying to fill in.
Is they planned to do this or was it a last minute thing done in haste and panic, because the disposal of the body seems to meet not to be well planned at all.
Where was she going and who was she going to meet? Now we believe that the person that she was going to meet is probably the person that killed her.
I'm Andrew Rules Life in Crimes, and today we welcome to our humble studio Ashley Hansen, who is interstate and she's been working on a big project that is quite fascinating. I clearly don't know as much about it as Ashley because she's done a heap of work on this, but it is the big story that's currently hitting the airwaves, and it is about the murder of Rachelle Child's in two thousand and one, and really it's about the failure of the system to work out who killed her twenty
four years ago. Is that about it, Ashley?
Well, it is a big case. You are right, and we do go back to the very beginning of Rochelle's life and we focus it on the days and weeks leading up to her murder, and then we pull apart the investigation and go back over the key pieces of evidence to put it back out in the public domain, because we think that that is the best way where we're out in terms of twenty twenty five to solve this case, because it's now been a cold case for over twenty three years and the family wants justice.
Well, no wonder, now, I cheated before I came in to talk to you. I did watch some of it and get a little bit of an idea. It really is a fascinating case because Rachelle, young woman, worked in a car dealership and you know, I won't say rural South Wales but provincial New South Wales. And she was going to meet and you'll tell us better than I can. She was going to meet someone we don't know who at a particular pub where she had not been before, and she vanished. Is that what happened?
Well, her family say that they found out that she was going to meet someone in the days after her disappearance, because there was this frantic search for Rochelle. As of
Friday afternoon they realized that she was missing. But by then in the early hours of Friday morning, her burning body had been discovered at GIRoA, which is one hundred kilometers away from her hometown in Bargo, so police hadn't put two and two together, and because the body that was burnt at GIRoA, it took days to formally identify
that victim. So it wasn't until the Sunday did the detectives come and inform the family that was still frantically looking for Rochelle and say, we've actually found her, and sadly she'd been murdered. So we pull apart the case and the days leading up to it, as I said, and then the days and the weeks and the years that followed the investigation. But from the family's perspective, they said that they knew that she was going out because she had this urgency to go somewhere. She left work early.
They think that she made it home, so her clothes that she wore to work were at home, and the police and her friends found them in the days later on the Saturday, I think they confirmed that they were
her clothes. So the belief is and the evidence suggests that she did make it home, but where she went to after that, nobody knows, and her burning body was found nine hours later, So what happened, So the missing nine hours is what we're really trying to fill in because there are still so many gaps in this case.
I can see that. So it's conceivable that whatever went wrong could have gone wrong even at her own house, that someone could have been waiting for her. She gets changed, she puts on some other clothes, ready to go out, and the bad guy turns up and grabs her or something there possibly, or she drives off in her old blue Commodore that she drove, is it right, her favorite old car, that's right, and she heads off to perhaps the pub where she told her sister she was going. I think Bargo Pub.
She didn't tell her sister that she was going there, and we really look into where that information came from. Oh, in terms of her going to the Bargo Hotel, because there aren't any verified sightings of her at the Bargo Hotel. So initially because her car was found there in the days after her murder, and this was when the family was still frantically looking for her. Her car turned up parked at the back of the Bargo Hotel. Now back in two thousand and one. The Bargo Hotel was a
bit of a rough pub. The bikes, the local rebels bikes used to drink there and it's been renovated now and very family friendly, so I want to make sure I make that distinction. But at the time, it wasn't somewhere where Rochelle would have gone. And a couple of reasons for that of this, well, she'd never been known to go there before. Thursday night was pull competition night and it was also topless waitress night, so mostly the pub was full of men. That was the clientele usually
on a Thursday night. So the fact that her car turned up there really stunned her friends and family because they were like, what's that car doing here, Like, we've never known her to go there, And then the other clues that police and family have always have come to the conclusion and belief that she didn't drive her car there, but possibly it was a staged crime scene, so whoever killed her may have dumped her car there to cover his tracks in some way, And in the beginning, certainly
it worked because the media reports all around Rochelle and her disappearance was this belief that she went to the Bargo Hotel and certainly someone who is a key person of interest did say that she was going there to meet someone. So we go into that and we explore all of that, but it's a vital piece of the puzzle because who did drive that car to the pub? The pub manager at the time, he gave evidence and did a statement with police and he said, there's no
way she was in this pub. He would have known. She was really recognizable because she was blonde, she was attractive, she was twenty three, and she would have stood out, especially given it was a really bloky night at the pub. And there was this other sighting of her at the pub, and this is where we think, you know, things could have been confused over the years. There was a sighting of another twenty three year old that night and the bartender said, I did serve this blonde woman and she
was twenty three because she checked her ID. Now that person was identified and just by coincidence, that person looked very simil to Rochelle, but wasn't Rochelle Noe. So that's all part of it too. So we go back over Yeah, the case and the car is just such a yeah. As I said, the car is really the key to all of this because who drove it and where did they go back to? So if the killer drove the car there, then how did the killer get home and
get away? And so we're going we're trying to retrace the killer's steps and also Rachelle's to try and ultimately bring about new witnesses that could potentially be the breakthrough that this case needs.
Where else could she have been going? She spoke to her sister very briefly because the sister was busy. This is after work on the night in question.
So on Thursday, she left Camden Holden shortly after five pm and there was this phone call with Christy, her sister, and she was talking really fast on the phone and Christy was on the other line. So she said, I'll call you back, and she never did, cause that plays on her mind still to this day, and she holds a lot of guilt about not calling her back because
she didn't really get into what she was doing. And obviously Christy had no idea that that would have that would be the last time she'd ever speak to her sister.
So there's that phone call which left Christie believing that she was definitely going somewhere because she was excited, and she was speaking really fast, and that was something that she used to do, and she was obviously heading somewhere and heading to bargo her home to get changed, so she had somewhere to be And a lot of other people gave us that evidence and have said that to us, like the last customer that served her, So there's no sort of confusion around that she was going somewhere, it's
just where was she going and who was she going to meet. Now we believe that the person that she was going to meet is probably the person that killed her. And the reason for that is because no one came forward afterwards and said, well, Rachelle didn't turn up, she hasn't met me. So no one's come forward and said
that she failed to turn up to meet them. So that almost rules out the fact that there was this random attacker going around and she just happened to cross spas with someone, you know, a really dangerous man just by chance that she you know, unlikely, highly unlikely because of her actions leading up to it and her excitement. But another really important part of this case is her excitement about being loaned a hold in Walking Shaw. Now, yes, I'd never heard of a walking Shaw Andrew had you, I.
Had, But then again I'm older and you know, different generation, and I had heard of walking Shaws. I think I remember the original walking Shaw.
There you go. Well, you'll probably know a bit more than I do. But I have had to do a bit of research into walking Shaws because I've never heard of them before. But why it's important is because Rochelle was a whole and fanatic. She was mad about cars and particular Holdens. So she held this belief and had set it to a couple of people that leading up to the June Long Weekend, which is the weekend before she was murdered. She was murdered on the Thursday night.
The time of her death isn't exactly known, but her burning body was found at two just after two am on the Friday morning before the June Long Weekend in two thousand and one. Now, she'd told her sister, and she'd also told a few other people close to her at the time that she was super excited about being loaned a Holden walking Shaw from Camden Holden. So that was her belief for whatever reason. So we really look into whether or not there was any truth to that.
Did a walking shaw exist. Was there ever a walkn saw? Why did she hold that belief and why did someone promise her a walking shaw for the long weekend? And being the car found that she was, she was super excited about that.
Great bait to get her in would be to mension something like.
That possibly, and that is a very very strong theory that you know, was that the bait that got her somewhere and got her in a place where she was vulnerable because she was excited about it. And no walking shaw ever turned up. You know, there wasn't one that turned up to Camden Holden and that's where she was working as a saleswoman. And you can probably give some insights on this, but the walkingshur at the time they
were incredibly rare. And also a car yard bringing a walk Inshaw into their yard and onto the lot, it would need to be ensured. It's not something that would be done in secret. It wouldn't just be a surprise to the manager or to the owner of the car yard if a car like that was coming in. Everyone sort of told us, look, they'd make a big deal about it. There'd be a lot of plans in place
as to where are we going to store it. Even then, if there was one coming in, it's highly unlikely they would be loaning it out such an expense in sidcar to a twenty three year old saleswoman. And what are your thoughts on that?
Well, I suspect you're right. If this was a kosher offer, you'd think there'd be some trace of it. Now. I don't know whether they'd lend it to her or not. Maybe they would if there was a reason, you know, but there ought to be someone somewhere that knows which car it was and who had the control of it. It sounds as if it's a made up car, doesn't it. It sounds like a made up bait to hook her in by a manipulative person.
It's it's either true or false, really, isn't it. So we look into was there a walking shaw? Did one Edward exist?
Yes?
And so we follow that path and explore that theory as well, because it is a really important part of Rochelle's case. The family believes that all the investigators that have worked on it have also believed that as well, because yeah, why was she promised this walking share and what happened to it? What happened to Rochelle. You know, the main part of this case and the biggest unsold
question is what happened to Rochelle. We don't even know where she was killed, you know, as I said, those nine missing hours from her possibly going home and getting changed yep, And it was nine hours later that her
burning body was found. So in episode three, which is are now available, we go through all the witness accounts down at GIRoA at seven Mile Beach, which is one hundred kilometers away from her home, and some of her friends hadn't even heard of GIRoA or seven Mile Beach, so again they were shocked that she not only had been murdered, but that her body had turned up there. So it was a bit of a mystery to why
that location. So we really look into the location and talk to experts about the mind of a killer and the disposal of a body and what goes into that that thought process, and that's fascinating stuff because you know, the experts give that really psychological insights into what people do to try and cover their tracks. And so we explore the area down there as well, seven Mile Beach, and the car sightings as well, because her car or
a car very similar to Rachelle's. So police have the view that her car was used to go to GIRoA, whether the killer took her body down there, or whether the killer drove her down there and she was murdered down at GIRoA. But there was all these car sightings of the car moving near where her body was found, moving from one side of the road to the other.
So we look at whether or not burning her body was planned b which goes to the mindset of the killer as well, which helps to profile this killer as well. Was it planned because if her murder was planned, it wasn't planned very well. But at the same time, this person or these people responsible have got away with it, and they had a lot of things go their way, unfortunately, because there were so many failures in the initial investigation.
Sadly, yes, you can see that if this had happened in the last five years, parts of this puzzle would not be a mystery because there'd be more CCTV footage, et cetera, et cetera. Now, even the fact that this person had accelerant, they had petrol or kerosene or whatever they had that already with them because they'd planned to do this, or was it a last minute thing done in haste and panic, because the disposal of the body seems to me not to be well planned at all.
It's right beside the busy road, as one of the investigators points out, if you stand where her body was found, people can see you from the road. It's not a great spot to hide a body. So it looks as if it was done really quick and in haste. And they've said, oh, hell, I've got a burner because my DNA will be on it. So they've just burnt her. But did they go and get some fuel to do that?
So you know, did they go to a service station three kilometers away and buy some fuel and come back and burn the body, there'd be all these little possibilities. The other thing is I noticed that she was pictured with Peter Brock at some stage.
When was that, I'm not exactly sure, but it was a couple of years before her death, and Peter Brock was her idol. Yes, and that was even the number his number which I think it was number five, was on her headstone and it was it was really touching when I went to the cemetery with her sister to see her headstone, and she has a picture there of herself and I think it's Peter Brock's car or a picture of her and Peter Brock as well, but definitely pays tribute to him because he was her idol and
as I said, she was a huge Holden fan. So we're hoping that we might get some Holden fans following us in the podcast as well. Probably will Filling in any gaps in the case as well would help a lot.
It could happen. Sometimes experts can help with subtle things. I mean, even putting out the walking Shaw story, it might produce someone with specific knowledge out there who goes, well, I'll tell you where they all were right then or where they weren't, and the people that know all these things might be able to help triangulate something about the walking Shaw story.
Yes, we're very much interested in any of that kind of information because it wasn't uncommon at the time as well to mock up a Holden walking Shaw. So we don't know if okay, the fakes and the genuine walking Shaws were all checked.
Of course, there's that. It's a very interesting thing. And see, the person that made the offer to her must know about walking shores. They must know something, because you can't make up what you don't know, really, can you. They must have some knowledge in order to raise that who attract her attention. So that tells us that this manipulative killer, sex killer probably has some knowledge of Australian cars and racing cars and hot cars, that sort of stuff. I know, that's a broad church.
I believe that strongly, and I think most of the investigators on the case would agree to Yeah.
So that at least gives them a broad group of people. I've noticed in just checking before we've spoke that you investigators have found something like nine people ex boyfriends or whatever of Rochelle's and eight of them have sort of been able to ali by themselves or whatever. That hasn't yes, So what can you say about that?
Well, so there were nine initially, there were nine persons of interest in Rochelle's murder. And if you think about it, she was a single woman, She worked in a male dominated industry. She was a bit of a tomboy, so her circle of friends she had a lot of male friends as well. Because of her love of cars. She rode horses, but she also played cricket, so her social circle was quite large. As well as her work circle.
So they started off with nine persons of interest, and then during the inquest, which was held in two thousand and six to two thousand and eight, it really just narrowed down to one man, her boss. Now he was named as a prime suspect in her murder, and still to this day he remains the prime suspect in her murder. He was her boss at Camden Holden, so she worked with him for about a year and according to in all of her work colleagues, she really looked up to
him like a father figure. And there were a lot of people that also felt like he had this obsession with her, that he had this Yeah, there's just a particularly interest in her. He may have been favoring her and affording her perks of the job that weren't afforded to everyone else, for example, letting her alone whatever cars and pushing her into sales. And you know, was he being a mentor, because certainly a lot of people say that his behavior wasn't really in line with a genuine mentor.
People have said that he liked her, you know, and he was a lot older than her, and I think it was the dynamic, you know, she was twenty three. She was described as naive and she was also learning a lot. She loved her job and he was the one that used to teach her. So she had a lot of faith in him and a lot of trust. And so we look into him and his past and yeah, his alibi. We do a deep dive on his alibi.
Where is he now and why are we talking so frankly about him?
I can't disclose where he is now, but he is still considered a suspect in Rochelle's murder, and he has always strenuously denied any involvement in Rochelle's death. The coroner had an open finding in two thousand and eight, so basically didn't identify or didn't refer the matter to the DPP. But she did say that Rochelle was a victim of homicide, but who killed her was never determined by the inquest. But through that process, all the other persons of interest by one man were ruled out.
So we'd perhaps call him a person of interest.
Yes, you could call him a significant person of interest, I think would be very fair.
So he's still with us, He's up there somewhere in New South Wales.
Yes, he's still he's still in the community. As I say, he's never been charged over Rochelle's murder. He did participate willingly in three records of interview with detectives and he was very closely looked at. His alibi was looked at. He gave a very involved alibi on the seventh of June two thousand and one, but not a single person can back that up. There wasn't another witness to back
up his alibi. So that's interesting, and we just take a deep dive into his past and just re examine the evidence that we know about and also look at new evidence and people that are coming forward and speaking out after all of these years, and they're prompted to speak out because of Rochelle and because of the injustice that really is centered on this case. You know, someone has got away with murder for over twenty three years.
And someone or the people that would do that to a young, innocent, beautiful woman who was loved by so many, I mean, they're a dangerous person. And what I will say as well is most investigators. The theory is that investigators believe that this was a sexually motivated attack. So because she was found partially naked from the waist down, and because of the fire, you couldn't determined whether they'd
been a sexual attack. But from investigators and police perspective, they always treated this as a sexually motivated attack, and the fire was to destroy evidence, to destroy DNA. So the killer, you know, essentially has got away with murder and a very very dangerous man.
The person of interest that you refer to have they got an interesting past or a dull past.
I would say it's an interesting past. Yeah, I would say it's a very interesting past.
Interesting and relevant relevant to this sort of thing.
Relevant. Yeah, Relevant's a good word.
Probably. We won't say much more about that as my thoughts, but that is interesting indeed. I mean in your experience of mind, we know that often these matters concerned people well known to the victim, usually don't they That's it probably eight out of ten.
And what we do know, as I said before, is that we know that her personality was the type of person she was a little bit shy. Even though she was outgoing in one sense, she had a bit of shyness about her. It's been described to me as she was someone that didn't like to go places on her own and We do know of an instance where she met to meet another man in Queensland and she took her girlfriends because she didn't know him. She hadn't met him before, so it would be out of line of
her personality. It wouldn't be characteristic of her to go and meet someone she didn't know and that she didn't trust, So she wasn't a risk taker in that sense.
Okay.
So that's why police and people closest to Rochelle are so convinced that whoever she went to meat she knew and she trusted.
Sketch a bit of a pen picture or perhaps a word picture of the Rochelle that you've come to know in a secondhand way she come from. One of her parents. Do tell us about her sister? What sort of girl was she?
Yeah? Look, she's the sort of girl that I wish I would have known because she sounds so lovable and likable, and she was cheeky, she was witty, she was she was really going and just always up for a good time. She loved her animals. She was a big animal lover. Has she had horses, she had dogs, she had a cat, and she was just that sort of person that everyone has a memory of and really fond memories of her.
So her death had a huge impact and there was almost I think it was almost one thousand people turned out to her funeral. Beautiful family. And look, I've only met her sister, her younger sister, Christie, and she's the real driver of this podcast and the person that prompted this investigation really because she was the person I went to over twelve months ago and said, look, would you consider doing a podcast about your sister's unsolved murder? And
the timing was just right for her. So her sister's an assistant principal and she's incredible. You know, she's so motivated, she's so determined to get this case solved after so many years, and we'll just keep fighting and won't give up. And her mom's the same and she's beautiful too. They lost their dad. Christie lost her dad a couple of years ago during COVID Sadly, he died of brain tumor, which was really sad because he was the leader, the advocate for the family. He was the one that dealt
with police. He had interactions with detectives down at Goldburn when they were training to be officers, and he would give that insight into dealing with victims' families. He's a really strong, stoic just a really likable guy as well from the sounds of it. So it really fell into Christie's possession this baton that she's you know, has taken on to be the charge and the leader to try and get this solved and to keep it out in the public domain and to motivate police as well to
re examine her case. But not just relook at it. We're talking about reinvestigating it, so just doing things that could lead to a breakthrough in the case. And they're just things like the reward. I mean, it's sitting at two hundred thousand dollars and you know what house prices are in Melbourne and Sydney that you know that is well,
it sounds like a lot of money. It's still not a life changing amount of money if you're going to break a loyalty or go out on a limb and speak out about someone who maybe you're very fearful of as well. But relationships change over the years, and that's what we're hoping that maybe someone who knew something at the time but was too scared to come forward or didn't have the confidence. Maybe maybe an increase in the reward could bring them out, could.
Loosen tongues over time. And is there anybody in particular that might have helped with an alibi? Is the reward aimed at certain people?
Do you think, well, we're hoping that an increase of the reward could reach anyone that has any intimate knowledge about someone's behavior. Either on the night that Rochelle was murdered, or the days that followed, or even the weeks and the months that followed, there would have been a suspicion. You would think that there may have been people that thought or heard things over time that maybe didn't add up or they sounded a little bit strange. And yeah,
we're just asking for this reward to be increased. The family is pushing for it, and we certainly believe that it's not money that you have to pay unless somebody is convicted. Usually that's what a reward is only ever paid, and it would be well worth it and money well spent in my view. So we're just asking for that reward, and we think it's important because you just don't know
what that money could motivate someone to do. To tell the truth to come forward and maybe just give a little piece of information that could potentially solve this case.
Ashley, what attracted you to it or who attracted you to this?
Well, I just remembered it as a young journalist. So I was working in Woollongong at the time, and I think it must have been the time when her inquest was on in two thousand and eight or around that time, and reading a story about it and just I remember just feeling shocked and sad. And then I went on and I did TV reporting for years, and I worked at Channel seven for about ten years, and then when I left Channel seven, I went into and was doing
a bit of freelance news reading. And I was just in this sort of spot in my career where I wanted to do something new and different but still be a journalist, but just delve into one case. And so I thought I'd love to do a podcast. I was inspired by Headley Thomas's work yep, as you know his success, and I just really got into podcasting and I thought I'd love to just yeah, have a look at one
case and see if I could do a podcast. So I reached out to Christy because this is the first case that came to mind was Rochelle's case, and I did a bit of googling, obviously that's how you start, and one of the first articles that came up was about Christie just a few years earlier saying I would look at doing a podcast and I'm wondering if Headley
Thomas might be interested in this case or whatnot. So I reached out to her and she was already talking to Headley but he hadn't really started on her case because she didn't know at the time, and obviously Headly didn't say it at the time, but he was very much invested in Bronwin's case, which is the podcast that's now out, so you can see the huge amount of work that went into that podcast. So yeah, so Christy thought about it and she's sort of agreed, No, now's
the time. I'm ready to do it now, because it's a huge investment emotionally and time wise as well to have a journalist go back and through the case like that, you're opening wounds. But she's been so forthcoming and it's just been an absolute joy to work with her. She's an incredible person and I would love for them to get the outcome that they so desperately want.
Yeah, of course, where did those girls grow up with their parents at Bargo.
No, they actually grew up at Glenfield. They grew up in Glenfield in Sydney's southwest, I believe near Campbelltown area, Glenfield, and they grew up out there. They were into dancing and I think they had horses when they were growing up as well. And what prompted Rochelle to move She was going out with the guy and they wanted more space because she wanted to have the horses on her property.
And I think because of house prices and whatnot, she rented at Bargo because she could get this, you know, a couple of acres there. And she was living there with her boyfriend for a little while, I'm not sure how long, and then they broke up and so that that's what prompted Christy to move in. But Christie'd only be living there for sort of a month or six weeks so, and Christi is Rochelle's youngest sister, so she'd only been living there for about six weeks and then
this tragedy happened. And yeah, the story sort of goes from there.
It goes from there. Actually, how can our listeners tune in and listen to this.
Well, they can visit the website dear Rochelle dot com dot au. So that's d e A r r A c h ewl e dot com dot au.
Perfect and that name is yes as you spelled it out at Rochelle r A not that's it. We will put the URL in the description of the episode. Actually, wish you all the best and we look forward to tuning into your most excellent work. It's a fascinating case and if there's any justice or luck in the world, something that you do will loosen someone's tongue and get a result.
Thanks Andrew, that would be an absolute dream.
Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald Sun production for True crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot com dot au forward slash Andrew rule one word. For advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at news dot com dot au. That is all one word news podcasts sold And if you further information about this episode, links are in the description