Lemme record too. Okay. Hi. You didn't. Hi. 200 episodes later. 200 episodes later. That's a lot of talking. That's a lot of talking. That's nearly four years and we haven't missed a week and we haven't repeated an episode either. 'cause you know how I feel about that from the vault. Thank you. I'll go and look in the vault myself. Thank you. Yeah, I feel like it's been a way that we ourselves have been processing, , . We didn't know we, what, what do we do for our hundredth episode?
We talked about the things we'd learned, right? Yes. And we were in New York together. Do you remember? Yeah, yeah, I do. Of course I do. but coming up with what to do for the 200th was, I think we kept coming back around to why don't we talk about what we've learned, like we've done that stuff. Yes. So we, we have a few things that we're gonna do for our two hundredths today. We have a bit of an ask us anything.
We've had a lot of questions in probably over 50 questions, so we are not gonna be able to answer probably most of the questions we've had, but a lot of them are really good episode ideas. Yeah. I looked at those questions and I thought we, there's a whole episode in that. So thank you so much to everybody who submitted questions for that. We also have something just a little bit fun, a little game we're gonna play as well. And you guys can play along at home and see if you are right.
And then at the end of the episode, we actually have a very big podcast announcement. And it's not one of those announcements where it's, okay, we're gonna do this event in this country. And everyone's like, great, that doesn't apply to 95% of people. It will apply to every single person who listens to our podcast regularly. Ooh. If it were me, I would be scrolling to the end. I would be like, nevermind the episode. What are you talking about?
Yeah, exactly. And I think, I think it's exciting, just so that to preface it, we're not announcing that we're stopping the podcast just in case anybody's thinking that's the announcement. This, as far as I'm concerned, is a fun announcement and I'm really looking forward to telling everyone. Yeah. Yeah. Same. , But first we are gonna get to your questions and play our game. Yes, I think we have about 11 questions to get through, okay.
Number one, I didn't write down who these were from, so I don't know if everybody wants their names necessarily read out. So we're just not using any names. I feel like change is not on the cards for me. Is this a normal feeling when confronting binge eating? Did you think you were gonna recover? Um, I always had hope at the end of the day, but did I go through periods of time where I was in despair?
Absolutely. And yes, I mean, yes, I thought that I would not recover sometimes and other times I was like, well, I keep trying anyway. There must be a reason I keep trying. Yeah. The amount of times I thought, do you know what, I'm just gonna give up. I'm so fed up of battling this, but it's almost like something doesn't, doesn't let you with this. Yeah. It's not like you can just choose to, I'm not gonna try and stop this because it's causing Yeah.
Pain and, and it keeps pulling you back to something. So I think there were moments where I felt very hopeful, very similar to you, and moments in the times when I really felt like I'm not gonna be one of the people who recovers. It tended to come down to this idea of I'm not a consistent person. I felt like in order to stop binge eating, there were these things that I knew that did help, but I needed to be able to do them really consistently. And I didn't feel like I could.
And it was actually in embracing my inconsistency and sort of accepting this. And I know your recovery was a bit different, but for me it was more like an in and out, in and out. In and out. Yeah. And spending more time out. And that grew and grew and grew.
Um, so I actually had to allow my inconsistency to be there Instead of beating myself up for messing up again because I forgot all the things that helped me, I started being much more appreciative when I remembered the things that helped me, and I felt able to put them into practice again. Mm-hmm I think it's quite, I'm looking at the question, you know, is this a normal feeling when confronting binge eating? I would say, is this a normal feeling when confronting anything?
There's ways in which , I still have thoughts in my head now around habit cycles, or, or just ways of being that I am that I'm like, I, I wanna change and I keep trying to change and I'm not changing. And there are times where I feel really down about it.
I think that anytime we're looking at shifting something that's asking a neural pathway to change, like something really rooted to change , I don't know that I've ever experienced or would expect myself to experience,, an endeavor with within which I didn't feel like, oh, this isn't working and it's not gonna work. Those times where I'm in that head space, I'm the most dysregulated, I'm the most. Depressed. I'm the most like exhausted, but that's normal.
I think the difference is that even in the here and now where I'm working on changing things, I expect that I will come to that spot and then I will be like, okay, like rally again. I'll eventually find enough energy to rally again. That's how it's always worked. So I don't take it as seriously, but I fully feel immersed in this idea of like, you're the worst. You can't do it. , This is hopeless. I also know not to necessarily trust that that is the end of the story. Yes. Lovely answer.
And then I would just leave it with my favorite quote, which I have said several times on the podcast, CS Lewis won. Isn't it funny how day by day nothing changes and then you look back and everything's different? I think sometimes the change is so gradual, but I believe that there's something in us that keeps pulling us back to. Trying and if we become more compassionate and we can sort of shift the energy around how that's unfolding it, it's slow. It can be really slow, but, um, yeah.
Comfortable too. Yes. Um, next question is more like a, people didn't have a lot of characters to use 'cause they were asking these on Instagram, so it simply says, talking to kids about food adolescents too. So what are your thoughts on this, Steph? I'm deferring a hundred percent to you on this one. This could be an episode as well. And I, it is actually with Molly Forbes way back in the day.
We might think about getting another, uh, another lens on it, but my personal lens being a mother, , is that I think the most important thing is To have humility and to not be afraid to self-correct. So there are times where something might come out of my own mouth with my kids where I'm like, oh, I wish I hadn't said that. Or like, Ooh, that betrayed my internal, you know, beliefs about my older beliefs about food or, or even my fears about how they're eating, right.
And when and if something comes out of my mouth that could be at any point internalized by them as a self-talk that might grow and grow and grow and become a way that they believe something about themselves or their bodies or food. My most important strategy is to. Acknowledge that I've said that and that I wanna re-say it or I wanna re-clarify that.
So we've talked about this in the past when talking about the kids, um, because if my parents had ever sort of gone back around and said, like, actually what I just said is actually something I'm working on changing in my, you know, in my own head, and actually this is what I really think about it, that would've been very helpful for me to understand. Oh, okay.
Like , sometimes people have thoughts and it doesn't mean that they need to, that like you need to stand by them and that, that we need to like die on that hill, you know, just because of maybe ego or, or stubbornness. But I think this unconditional beacon of, of support that's unconditional acceptance of, of the body, of the self, of the child is to me the energy that overrides the details of what we're talking about. I think acknowledging the middle ground of yes, nutrition is a factor.
Yes, nutrition has a place, but it's not the end all and be all that kind of energy. That's where I go with it. It's just kind of like deescalating the morality, deescalating the emergency around something so that the child is actually absorbing more of my energy rather than even necessarily the, the details, right? Mm-hmm. Like just like, okay, yeah, food is food. It has a place, we can think about it.
This, we can think about it this way, but I'm not gonna go to either extreme with it, and if I hear myself speaking in an extreme or wanting to speak in an extreme based on my own, again, raw biases, it's a self-check and it's kind of like a, let's, let's look wider than what we're like, let's, let's just declassify the emergency, which is typically my go-to with myself and my kids. Anyway. What I like about your answer is actually it's sort of prioritizing authenticity over ideal.
I think when you're still doing this work yourself, but you want your kids to have a different experience, if you start saying to them things that. Do not feel true to you on any level. It's okay if you're conflicted, but you're just telling them the ideal things you want them to believe. They will see you in the way that you are acting and being, you know, it's that whole like do as I say, not as I do.
So I think by acknowledging what you said there, your own biases and your own challenges with this, I love that. Obviously age appropriate if they can, you know, once they get to the age where they can understand those kinds of concepts. Mm. Next one. How to clean out your closet when coping with weight gain, body grief, avoiding, again, people are having to truncate their questions to fit them into the Instagram box. But we get the gist. The question is very, it sounds very practical.
So first of all, from a practical basis, I think it's important to be able to look in your closet or wardrobe, as we might say. Do you say wardrobe at all? No, except for the lion, the witch in the wardrobe.
Look in your wardrobe and to look in your wardrobe, and you can only wear like one slither of clothing at one end of the wardrobe, I don't think is helpful from like a, a healthy mental place So I think there is something about removing, at least from eyesight when it feels challenging to perhaps throw them out. Can you bag up clothes? Can you put them somewhere else so that when you are opening your clothing spaces, you can wear the majority of what you see.
And so sometimes people will put things in bags, put them away, and then at some point if it feels right or they're ready for it, they'll take those bags to charity or goodwill as I believe. Mm-hmm. Say across the pond. but it can be done in stages for sure. I think the most important thing is that you are not opening your closet or wardrobe and seeing a whole load of clothes you can't wear. Right.
I think that just will reinforce every single day this your body and your body not being able to fit these clothes. Mm-hmm. I agree with that 100%. In terms of the prioritization of like, that's the most important thing.
, , I spoke to a client yesterday who is in this process and she kept asking herself to create a space within which she could have the time when no was in the house or kids weren't around to really go through her closet, get rid of things because she knew it was gonna be emotional and would potentially need to process a a lot and maybe have some tantruming. So she actually. , Carved out this time to do the thing.
And she had procrastinated and procrastinated and she was like, all right, on Saturday, no one's gonna be home. I'm good. This is what I'm gonna do that day. And right when after she made that decision on Monday or whatever it was, um, she said to Tuesday night, I had a 20 minute gap and I just did it all. Then almost like the cushion of knowing that she would had this dedicated space to do it, almost did something else so that she was, she was like, let me just do it now.
And she's like, that's kind of the way I work in general, where , when I have this thing looming, it's like, I'd rather just do it in the here and now . . Other times I think it would serve a lot of people to be like, I'm gonna dedicate this time and space to purposefully moving into my feelings about this and to purposely move into something that I might need to like have a whole day to really process. , Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. hormones with PDD on what PI know what PDD is.
PMDD, that's why Premenstrual dystrophic dis dysmorphic disorder, I think it is. Recovery is like two steps back with each hormone cycle. It could be persistent depressive disorder too. I just assumed 'cause of the hormones and it mentioned the cycle. I know. And it just sounded like hormone cycle either. Sounds like that. This, this question is one of the many questions we had that are huge topics. So we would actually love to do an episode on P-M-S-P-M-D-D.
So this is where we need your help listeners. If you know anybody who, this is their field and they're out there talking about it, we can invite them on as a guest. Do you have any thoughts on this topic though? I do in that, um, I also notice increases of. Desire to eat with hormonal cycles and until, and that still exists even when my restriction doesn't, so my appetite does go up. But when I was restricting, it was , exponential. And so I felt, I remember feeling like this.
And so I, even though , in my experience, this changed a lot when I wasn't restricting. But it still exists to some degree with appetite. And I think that when you're still kind of battling the binge and restrict cycle, this is the thing that seems like it, like undoes the rest. And to almost look at it, and this is what I do with it, is to look at it like during these times of the month. My appetite will rise.
It's not necessarily a reflection of disorder, even though it feels like such urgency to eat. That urgency doesn't necessarily indicate, oh, it's part of the pathology of binge eating. It might be, it's part of the appetite increase. And then we're talking about the meta eating and things like that. , So almost to recharacterize it a little bit as, um, to be more flexible during that time so that it doesn't explode into meta binging. Mm-hmm. Or meta guilt.
Yes. And I think the other part that can make it feel disordered is that bottomless feeling like that hormonal hunger, sometimes it feels like it just can't quite be satisfied. And that, I think is just a scary feeling when you struggle with disordered eating. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Definitely one we need to dive into more, but we're gonna have to move on for today. Do you wanna ask a couple of questions? I don't want to take over all the question asking.
Well, the next question actually to me is tied very much to this. So the next question was, do you ever find yourselves close to a binge or in one. Do you? Do you, do you? Well, here's, here's the funny thing. 'cause I saw I'm, I think this came because I saw this question come in last night. Last night. I dreamt that I had a horrendous binge. Oh. And I couldn't stop posting. I posted about dream binging yesterday. I. I don't, I don't think I saw that post maybe. Oh, that's so weird.
No. 'cause I always, I always like your post and I always make sure I scroll through and hit the, I make sure I interact with it. So I hadn't seen that post. I think it was the question that came in. And I remember in this dream, like, 'cause I'm eating and eating and eating and I'm in my mind, I'm panicking. Mainly because of the job I did. Right. And I'm thinking, I know I've said before that if I were to have a binge, I imagine I would talk about it on the podcast and make sense of it.
But I remember in the dream feeling so much shame and thinking, oh, I can't, and then thinking, but I could tell Steph, I think I, and I remember in my mind I was like, I think I could talk this through with Steph, but because it was a dream and I was binging and I didn't know why, it was kind of scary. And I used to dream about binging as well when I was actually bing and sometimes the relief of waking up and knowing that I hadn't been Yes.
Which I did have, I had the same relief when I woke up and I was like, oh yeah, no, I didn't, it didn't happen. I even woke up thinking that I had a gift that I had binge that had been yesterday for a second, and then I realized it was my dream anyway. no, I do not have the kind of binges I used to have. And I think we have touched on this slightly on the podcast. There have been times where my, my desire to eat has felt urgent and it might have felt a bit compulsive.
And this normally happens for one of a couple of reasons. Sometimes if I don't eat enough during the day, and it comes to later on, and then I have that hunger, it's like I can't quite hit that point of satisfaction. I'm uncomfortably full and I want to keep eating. And so I might end up eating past the point of comfort, but it's not me going out and buying a load of binge foods and then deciding to binge. That's the difference. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
The other way it can show up, which isn't quite binging, but it's all still very much tied in together, is, um, there are times when I notice like I'm just craving sugar more and I find myself just reaching for things more often and it feels like I'm sort of using foods to, it's not checking out because it's not what it used to be, but sometimes when I notice my sugar cravings are higher and I'm reaching for sweet foods more often.
Sometimes when I stop and I check in with myself, normally when I stop and check in with myself, there's something I'm avoiding. And so sometimes for me, I kind of use my appetite as, it's like my little signaling, if you like to go, oh, you know, you're finding yourself wanting to eat a bit more. Is there, is there something going on? Do just wanna just like, just do a little quick emotional check in. and then usually I can find, I can find the reason for that.
Yeah. And that it's a relief when I do, so it kind of holds me, accountable is not the right word, but it pulls me out of avoidance. Mm-hmm. And so now I just appreciate it as being like, my little warning flag. It doesn't have that emotional, oh my goodness, no, I'm reaching for more foods than I think I should. Is that the reason why it's different than it would've been? So the check-in sounds easier.
, Whereas at a different point in your recovery, it might have been like, uh, I am checking in. I still feel completely out of, is it more like the relationship with the check-in has changed so it doesn't need to become bigger than Yeah, and largely my relationship with myself. I had so much more morality around feeling the way I felt.
Yeah. And so I think questioning the stories that are going on in my mind sometimes that are going on in the background, and so they're creating more like a mood than a conscious emotional experience and not making myself wrong for anything that I think will feel. Yeah. Yeah. That's the big, that's the big change that is like, oh gosh, yeah. Time to check in. Often it's a relief when I realize I need to check in. Yeah. Because I just don't seem to remember all the time.
I would say my answer is exactly the same except it's, , regulation. I'll find myself needing to re like, regulate my body when I'm anxious it, I'll use food to kind of come down, but the check-in itself, , is different. It's like, oh, I, I know what I'm doing and I'm not upset about it. It's so therefore I, I can't believe how much eating would occur in response to the eating like that To me, I'm like, I realize now what a big portion of binges that was. And , that part doesn't exist.
I'm calmer about it, so it's, it doesn't turn into that. But the other place that it would happen, , where I get that bottom is hunger and, . And, and hormones, which is why this question came right after the other one. Like if my appetite increases for whatever reason, including sometimes if I've lost a little bit of weight, inadvertently just the nature of the ebb and flow, I'll notice my body kind of like my appetite will go up and I'll get, I'll get hungrier than normal.
And that bottomless feeling can feel like, oh, I'm hungry in like a bingey way. Like I just wanna keep eating and eating the difference. The biggest difference is that I get a cue at some point that I'm actually done, that my body has found what it was seeking. It just happens to be a lot more food than I normally would have. And that cue I can register and be like, okay, like, and then I'm done. 'cause the psychology doesn't have a field day with it, which is where meta would happen.
So, , I don't think I've had any experience. Of eating where that cue hasn't gotten registered. Even with regulating, , my body actually does reach a point where it's like, good to go. I needed more to feel grounded, but I feel it now. And once I feel it,, , that relationship is so different. Whereas it used to be like, what the hell? I'm gonna keep going. 'cause, 'cause all of a sudden at that point it was like, I'm binging, I'm moralizing that I need to compensate for that.
And all of that piece is what would keep it going almost urgently. Keep it going. But I don't feel that anymore from the psychological point of view. So that ends it there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Next question, which was really interesting and it brought up some thoughts for me and I'm really interested in your thoughts too. Yeah. Which is, do you think that the fact you both settled into a straight size body strengthens your belief in intuitive eating?
And do you think this is the reason there are fewer plus sized influences that are in the recovery field? I think they mean as opposed to generally. Yes. Yes, yes. . I don't think intuitive eating specifically was, well, I know it wasn't my recovery method, so I had read the intuitive eating book. a few years prior to re quite a few years prior to recovering. Gave it a bit of a go, felt like it, quote unquote worked for a bit, but then I, when I binged, I was like, okay, this doesn't work.
I would say retrospectively, the things that I have done and that have shifted, I can put that into the intuitive eating framework because it's in there somewhere, including a lot of the emotional work that I did is in the cope with your emotions, with kindness. The self-compassion piece has been one of the biggest things. So the question doesn't quite resonate because I don't think that was about strengthening my belief in intuitive eating.
It's about retrospectively understanding how the things that I did that helped me also fit the intuitive eating framework to touch on this idea, the reason why there are fewer plus size intuitive eating influences. I was thinking about this and a couple of thoughts popped in my mind. One was, I think it is a much more vulnerable thing to do to put yourself out there in a larger body as an intu intuitive eating advocate.
All I would say, I'm gonna say all sounds a bit black and white, but from my understanding, all plus size influences of any kind receive a lot of hate online for the size of their body. And if I was in a body where I was and I was putting myself out there to be subject to that kind of abuse and judgment, I don't know if I would want to do it. Yeah. So I think there might be a vulnerability piece in there.
I think it takes a very resilient, very, I dunno, massive respect for those out there who are talking about intuitive eating in a larger body and they are out there. Mm-hmm. So I think that's one of the one piece of it. I think another piece as well, I think speaks to. Diet culture and fat phobia that is intrinsic in the way we view something.
So, you know, if somebody is struggling with binging or with the size of their body and they're hoping to lose weight, I think sometimes it might be quite human nature to look to people that we think are aspirational or like, I want to be like them.
And when you are having such challenges with your own body, or you're in a larger body yourself, and that is something that you are struggling to accept or all the challenges and everything that comes with it, that's not me saying you should or you shouldn't accept that to follow. Plus size influencers, I think takes a bit of work already to have happened. So I think sometimes it might be harder for people in a plus size body in the intuitive world to gain a platform from that aspect.
And that still speaks to the fat phobic threads that run, run throughout our culture that many of us have just been brought up, soaked in those messages. I think the algorithm favors the smaller sized intuitive. They're the ones that are getting the following. Mm-hmm. So I don't know that you're as likely to see, , plus size influencers on social media because, but the algorithm is going with what people are reacting to. Right. You know? So it's not just the, it's because people are not engaged.
Is engaged. Yes. Correct. You know, as reflection Yeah. At the grassroots level. , My response to this question is exactly as yours in, in terms of I did not pursue intuitive eating. It didn't come across my zone of awareness until , , and after I recovered. So it's not like I feel like I resonate with having a belief in intuitive eating as a method. 'cause I actually don't personally, like, I don't know that I could have done it as a method, even though the concepts apply retrospectively.
But I guess the question, if I read it and like, what is this, what is the question really asking? There's something about the difference between , my belief in intuitive eating ideas, versus body weight stuff. When I recovered, it was really, and you and I have talked about this, the only reason I recovered was because for the very, very first time in my life, I valued my relationship with food over , where my body would land.
Now, if my body had landed at a much higher weight set point, I don't know that I would've kept, I don't know that I'd be here. I, I can't answer that. , But at the time, I, I just wanted to heal my relationship with food, and so the principles. Not principles, I didn't follow principles. The, the, the recovery path that happened was in that pursuit despite the body.
But there was almost something in healing my relationship with food that felt like I knew that my body didn't wanna be as small as I was restricting it to be. And that felt authentic. It felt like I'm not meant to be that small where I ended up felt like the place where my appetite naturally had been pointing me. Anyway. So there's something that, that went together around the actual process of healing my relationship with food and where my body did land, like they felt aligned.
If they had felt very grossly not aligned, or if I'd been like, I have healed my relationship with food and I'm in a body that I can't tolerate being in, I can't even speak to it because I almost feel like they wouldn't coexist. Yeah. And this question's not on the list, but I saw it. Last night. And so I just wanna speak to it quickly 'cause it just jumps off what you said, what you're talking about. The question was, what other methods are there apart from all in?
And I'm like, well, loads stuff went all in. I didn't go all in. Intuitive eating is not, not necessarily and on the whole, not an all in method. we have uh, an episode. It's so funny, I thought it was 173 and I just looked and it is 173 and now I wish I'd said, I thought it was 173. 'cause it sounds like, I'm just saying that retrospectively. Anyway, episode 173, we talk about the all in approach versus basically not being all in.
There's also CBT if you want a more cognitive, behavioral based approach as well. There's the abstinence approach, which is treating it as an addiction, but I would say they're the main ones really. You've got CBT, abstinence based approach, then within the food freedom you've got all in or you've got maybe a more gradual approach. Is there anything else that you would just. Add to that, or does that cover it?
Yeah, I, I don't really even like think about a, it's like a personal navigation more than that. More than these approaches. But, , did you say DBT uh, CBT, like fair burn? Yeah. Yeah. DBT, but though, as a different way of, I think DBT and Intuitive eating can be mm-hmm. Can work together a lot. But I know some people have worked under that framework parts work too. I mean, any, any kind of psychological approach can be applied, I think, to a path. Mm-hmm. Alright.
Um, what body insecurities do you still have, if any? I'm happy to answer, but also I wanna give you the chance to go first. I mean, we we're both gonna say it, so it's just who wants to go first? Um, for me, and you know, Steph, you'll know this 'cause I've spoken to you about it before. For me it's my, my chin, like under my neck here because I don't have a very defined jawline. And it's something that's I find more pronounced next to you because your jawline is actually very defined.
And my friend pointed that out as well when I shared some of the photos from our photo shoot and I was like, there's a couple that I just feel a little bit uncomfortable about, because of the angle. 'cause for me it's like my. Underneath my chin and hang lower than my chin as well. Uh, um, quite a few angles. And so sometimes when I see myself in profile, it's just uncomfortable 'cause that's not how I'm used to seeing myself. And insecurity is it that it doesn't stop me from doing anything.
It's not something I spend a lot of time thinking about. I have a moment when I see a photo where I'm like, oh, that feels uncomfortable. but yeah, when I was showing it to my friend, she was like, oh, I think it's just 'cause Steph's very jaw defined that you're seeing that. I'm like, I see it in pictures when I'm not next to Steph. But yes, Steph does have a defined jawline. So occasionally there's like a little comparison piece that comes in that with photographs.
That's, I'm just trying to think. Anything else in terms of the rest of my body? It's not like I massively love the size and shape of my body, but it's not something I tend to have strong feelings about. When I hit, well actually I think when the pandemic hit, I started getting more hairs on my chin. So that's probably something like facial hair, probably a little bit more. I've had this since I was a teenager. Oh yeah.
But not on my chin, you know, I used to have it across my upper lip, misplaced eyebrows, but no, not on my chin. So I guess that's around now. I'm touching it as well. I dunno if you've ever seen that meme where it's like, if you ever see a woman over 14, like stroking her chin, it's 'cause she's just, oh, I do it in the car. I'm always like this. My kids are always like, mom, dam it. I've never been able to grab it with my fingers. You've been able to, to pull 'em out these fingers? Oh yeah.
I've been practicing since I, again, like since puberty. So those are my two. But I wouldn't say that either of them affect the quality of my life or what I would do. Yeah, I would say, , my body insecurities are exactly the same as they were before recovery. They haven't changed at all. I am still, , insecure about my lower stomach and my hips and my, like, , I think I'm disproportionate. I have a, I have a smaller upper body than lower body. Still an insecurity, , hasn't changed.
The level of insecurity around it at times hasn't changed. It's just that it doesn't stop me from living my life anymore. And, and that's the difference. And also that I can recategorize the importance of it. So. Other than that, everything, I have the same opinions, I have the same frustrations when I get dressed. I have the same like, ugh, like anger about it at times. , But it's just how I'm handling it. That has changed.
And interestingly, another one that comes up sometimes is my face being so angular and, and, , drawn it because it doesn't seem to match the rest of my body. And sometimes that is exactly what my insecurity is. , . So, and as I'm aging, by the way, there's more coming so. Mm-hmm. Like skin texture and things like that are coming up. It's just managing it as is the difference. Mm-hmm. That's the difference. So how was it for you when I mentioned your jawline?
'cause we don't tend to comment on each other's appearances at all. Hmm. How was that for me to mention it? Uh, fine, because I'm, well, it's not something I'm like, oh, you see, I'm well aware of my jawline mm-hmm. And my face, I get comments, people will talk about it. My sister's made fun of it. Like, I, I, it's, it's, I'm aware of it. , , I've also had comments that it can be seen in like a one light and then it can also be seen in this other light and mm-hmm. As everything else.
, So it's not this big of an insecurity actually though, as it's, if you talked about my hips, I'd had a different, I've been like, Hey, now we need to pause. Um, but yeah. Yeah. Well, I just an aside, I went to physio yesterday and, I have found out that I literally, literally, literally, um, have a lazy bump like for reels. So like when certain things happen, there's certain muscles that are supposed to activate in a certain order and my utes just don't do anything.
Yeah. This is part of my back problem. I'm overloading my back and my quads because when I'm trying to do what would be glute exercises, there's nothing happening. I dunno why this is really making me laugh. What do you have to do? Um, these things? The, um, fire hydrants? No. 'cause it's not actually about strengthening, it's about activating them. So it's rather about like finding my, I have to stick my fingers like right into the, sort of the inside of my hips and then kind of press on the.
Soaz and then, 'cause my hips are really stiff as well, because I found out now that my hip bones turn inward slightly, and that means that that's just throwing everything off. So when she was looking at my hips, they were barely moving. And then I'm not sure if she was a physio or a witch, she might have been a white witch because what she did was some kind of sorcery. But like I pressure on certain points of your neck and behind your ears opened my hips. Yeah, I've seen that. I've seen that.
What? I know that's, it's just crazy to me. Absolutely crazy. Anyway, let's move on from my lazy belt. Oh, uh, do you ever miss your eating disorder? I miss mine. Not seriously. Just when I'm really overwhelmed, I don't, um, it was such a nuisance to me. It was, it was. I sometimes wonder if I had only been restrictive. If I would. Mm-hmm.
Um, because it's more glorified and, uh, and the payoff would've been a smaller body so I'm not gonna say that I'm above, you know, missing my eating disorder. I think it's just because it was such a torturous thing. , yeah, there have been, I think, the odd moment and one of them, I think I might have mentioned on the podcast when I was buying my house, when I have been so agitated. 'cause it doesn't come out in anxiety in me so much. It, it feels like a stress and a attention in my body.
I was so agitated that I had the brief thought, oh, if I was still bulimic, like I could ease this agitation, because I didn't know what to do with it at the time. And. I'm trying to think of the, I feel like there's been one or two other times where it's just been, and it's like a thought, not a longing. Not, not even a temptation. Not even a temptation, yeah. Almost like this recognition of like, oh, if I was still like this, I could ease this feeling in this moment. Oh, but that's it.
And it's only been with, um, the bulimia, which to be honest, I stopped the bulimia probably a good three years before I stopped binging. So the binging not at all, but so the, the relief sometimes. Yeah. I've had a lot of clients talk about it though, like missing, missing the binges themselves as the comfort and or missing the restrictions. So yeah, I think it's a con It does happen. I, I just don't, it's just not my experience.
Yeah. And it doesn't feel like missing binging or missing it miss the thing is like, oh, I used to have a switch I could press now to get out of this, and I can't, I can't press that switch anymore. It's a bit more like that. Do you know what I sometimes miss though? Is the switch of the body image one where I used to be able to focus on my body image to get me away from other thoughts. Mm. And I sometimes, like, it's like once you see the man behind the curtain, you can't unsee it.
And then I'm like, oh, now I really do just have to, ugh. Like I just have to, I don't have like this outlet that I can now go chase this false sense of control, you know? Mm-hmm. And sometimes I'm like, I wish I could just like get outta here for a minute, but, but by and large, no, I wouldn't, I would never, I would not trade it. Mm-hmm. Not that that was the question either. Um, the next question is, what have you learned from each other in your time together? Oh, mm.
First of all, if you haven't listened to Episode a hundred, I would listen to that because that does like a lot of the big lessons, , spoke about there. And particularly in the first couple of years of the podcast. I think the learning, what I was learning from you was quite rapid because it was so helpful for me to kind of see. This binge eating, let's say, in another light from the other side. That's quite different from my own experience.
So one of the things that I, I, I remember quite early on when you described being really present during a binge that I was like, what? I, I genuinely wasn't aware of people being that present during a binge. I don't know. And, and I don't know if I'd been missing it in my clients sometimes and projecting my experience onto them, but it really helped me see kind of the flip side of what it might be like for someone else. 'cause for me it was always a shutdown, an escape, a quietening and that.
And so for someone else, for it to be more loud and like a hypervigilant state, just opened up for me a whole other side of this mm-hmm. That I, I hadn't. Hadn't really understood, and even in my training, like it wasn't really, binge eating disorder isn't normally spoken like that at all. Oh yeah, you're right. It's not. Mm, interesting. I would say the exact same flipped because my experience of recovery was so my way, and then I assumed that every, yeah, just the same.
And it was like, okay, there's clients that are dealing with it in a different way, which is how it was discussed in like all the literature prior to recovery that I thought I'd flipped on its head, but it was like, oh no, there's a reason that that exists.
They talk about it like that, which I think we did talk, yes, we must have talked about this in episode 100, but I can cite what I've learned more recently in the next series of 100 episodes that has probably been coming through more with the somatic work, which is that I used my fierce vocal anxious fiery. Energetic side to heal. And as I did that, I coveted that part of myself in a way that felt like empowerment.
And so I think I have in some ways overcorrected towards that and needed to, to really feel secure on this side of the fence. And your way is just softer, more flexible, less driven by that kind of energy. And at one time I think I would've been like, I don't want, I, I can't have that. Like that's gonna bring me to a place that I don't wanna be. And now I feel like, oh, there's value in letting things go in, , confronting myself in different ways.
I. Then my fierceness wants to like not always defending. , I can't quite, there's something in the softness, which we've been talking about, right? Like the softening pursuit. And there's something about that that I think I'm really being called to, that you emulate. , That I think before I would've been to like, no, I don't want that. You know, I, I can't do that. , That won't work for me.
And now I'm like, well, well, I also feel like this question and our answers is a little teaser towards the announcement that's coming. So if you've been patient enough to be getting through this episode to get to the announcement at the end and you didn't cheat, this is a little hint at it. Am I right? Yeah. We didn't even do that. I did not do that on purpose. No, I know, I know, I know. I know. Mm-hmm. Um, do you want toss the next question?
Sure. It's. What's the one thing that surprised you about each other? Working on the pod together? Hmm. Yeah, I found this one actually quite a difficult one there. I guess there've been a couple of moments, I think. one, when I found out you didn't like mixed spice, I mean, what's that all about? Who you didn't like? What mixed spice, you know, in like, um, when you spice cakes, that's, we call it mixed spice. What would you call it? Like all spice. All spice. The flavor? Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.
Yeah. I don't even remember talking about that. Who doesn't like all spice? Ugh. Um, I get it. It's like you don't like hot cross pans, but more seriously. Um, I remember at the beginning being surprised at how similar we were. Because I was expecting us to be more different. And then as the time went on, being surprised how different we actually were. So I think it sort of flip flopped with that at the beginning it was like, oh my goodness, we're just so in alignment.
And now I see we're so different, like core values and all of that. Very aligned, but so different. , in many aspects of, of this. I don't think I've been surprised by anything. I think you're pretty steady. I feel like, I feel like the way I the way you've shown up has been con oddly. 'cause it's one of the things you talk about with consistency, but it's been, and so I don't know that there's, , I don't think that I have been surprised.
I mean, I think there'll be, there's minor surprises that come up in episodes, but they're not gonna stand out in your mind particularly, you know, when you say something like, really that's not. It kinda comes to mind now, really. I'm okay with not being surprising. I don't mind that.
Um, you know what, I guess maybe it's older, but like the, a couple times that you've teared up on the podcast, , there's times where I, maybe it's like the avoidant or something, like where I think you can be very stoic and like, I don't know, just like you, you know, your boundaries, you know, these things.
And then sometimes when there's a vulnerability, I think that's been like this in this like, oh, there's this, of course there is like, of course there's a vulnerable side, but sometimes I think maybe that was a bit surprising in the beginning like the, the juxtaposition of that. Um, but then understanding too, like, oh, that's how it all works. , That's exactly the, this and that. , That's the point. Um, but I guess maybe initially surprised me. Mm-hmm.
Um. So I had the idea the other day, 'cause I thought it would just be a little bit of fun for our 200th episode to do a bit of a, you know, there's Mr. And Mrs. Quizzes where it's like, who's more like this and who's more like that. So I reached out to Katie, who helps Steph and I on the podcast, so she knows both Steph and I, and asked her to put some questions, uh, together for us so you can play along at home listener. And we have a, looked at these questions.
They're sitting in our mailbox and I'm gonna, I'll, I'll copy and paste them into the chat so that we, we see them at the same time. Maybe we can take it in turns to ask it, and so this, this will just be a quick bit of fun before the big announcement. This is the hook. This is what you do. This is good marketing stuff. That's what you're supposed to do. I know. Okay. I haven't seen them though yet. Okay. I've got them now.
Yeah. Okay. So Steph and I both got, those of you on YouTube will be able to see this more visually, but Steph and I, have both got pieces of paper with the other person's name on it, so we will hold them up, but we'll also say them. This is fun listening audio. I'm excited. This is fun. I'm excited about this too. Okay. Well, how are we gonna do this so that we do it the same time? Wow. Can we do like a 3, 3, 2, 1, but we can edit out the 3, 2, 1, if you see what I mean.
Yeah. I also think we'll get the gist. Let's try it like that. Right now. This is, yeah. Who is most likely to wing it on a quiz? Okay. That's not a question. That's just me being silly. Yeah. Okay. Number one, who edits out more of their own podcast? Bloopers. Ready? Mm-hmm. Steph? Yes, Steph. That's not a surprise. I feel like you speak in a measured way, and I'm like processing as I talk, so I need to edit a lot of that out.
Well, I close a lot of gaps, so the listeners won't know, but sometimes I take quite long pauses, even in the middle of my sentences, and then I just close the gaps, so, but yeah. Okay. Come on. This one's too. No, I didn't think this question was unfair from Katie, but go on. Who's more likely to go off on a tangent during recording? Seth? It's part of what I love about myself and what I'm working on. Mm-hmm.
Number three, who's more likely to come up with a random new podcast idea at 2:00 AM Ready? Steph? Oh, oh. Sarah, say it out loud as well. Sarah, I'm sorry, I didn't say it out loud, Sarah. So I put Steph, I just thought at 2:00 AM I'm always fast asleep. You know, I sleep well. Oh, you really took that part to heart.
So I imagined you are more likely, like when I stayed at yours the other weekend and you like, I couldn't sleep last night and I was thinking about this, this, this, and this, and it was all around the podcast. Do you remember? Okay. Yeah. I guess I wasn't taking 2:00 AM literally, but, um, who's more, who's more likely to take the questions? Literally, Sarah? No, 'cause you didn't, that doesn't make, oh, sorry. Wrong one. Um, okay. Who's the bigger procrastinator? Ready? Sarah. Sarah?
Yes. Definitely. I don't know about that though, really, to be honest, but depends. Oh, I don't know. I, I feel like, and we've spoken about this before when you've spoken about like your, your anxious energy can sometimes make you quite productive and my energy can slow down. Yes. So I think of the two of us, it's probably more me. Number five, who's more likely to overshare with a stranger in a queue or a line, I should say. Ready? Mm-hmm.
Sarah. Mostly because I'm not talking to anyone unless Who's more likely to adopt a stray animal on impulse? Okay. Okay. Ready? I'm gonna go with more likely doesn't, I don't think either of us would. But it's more, yeah. Agree. Okay. Ready? 1, 2, 3, 3. Steph? Yes. Just because I think why, why, why me? I don't, I guess I'm not, I dunno. I just, yeah. Yeah. Also, straight animals scare me a little bit.
I think that you are just more likely to think, think something through, and you have better boundaries like that. I'd be like, let's just see what happens. Maybe, maybe, uh, number seven, who takes longer to reply to messages, even though they've read them. Ready? Steph. Steph. Yes. That's, that's, that was easy. That was, do we need to talk about it or no? No. Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm okay with it. It's just all. Who's more likely to overpack for a weekend trip? Ready?
Okay. 1, 2, 3. Sarah? Sarah? Yeah. I over pack. When I came to see Steph, I actually packed my electric blanket, which was half of my suitcase. And it didn't even work in the US because your, your voltage is different. Yeah, I would under pack. That's why I mean automatically You're just gonna get that one. 'cause I don't over pack because I'm not liking to think about packing. Okay. Um, oh, it's yours. Oh yeah. Yeah. Who's more likely to be late ready? Ah, um, I'm gonna say this.
I'm not quite sure about it, but Okay. Go ahead. Ready? Two, three. Steph. Oh, Sarah. I think for me, like being late is the worst thing ever. That's, I don think either of us are late. That's right. I don't think either of us are late, but being late is one of the things that stresses me out. I also think you have more plates spinning, so sometimes there are reasons why you just cannot. Um, on time.
Yeah. So you're more likely to say, can we push the recording back 10 minutes or something like that. It's not the same as just showing up late. That's, that's what I was thinking about. I was like, well, I'll name it if I need to be late. Um, yeah, well, naming it still makes it late, but, okay. Okay. I concur. Um, who gives better pep talks when the other one's spiraling? Oh, I don't think that's fair. Don't a minute. I need a minute.
I think that's rude to ev I can't be like, who gives better ones? I feel like that's just a rude question. You know, it's like direct comparison of like, who's better? I don't like that. Oh, interesting. Because, um, when I was, I was a, there was a comment that I can't even remember what the comment was now, but I remember I was, I was in it with it and I sent you a message and your response was so containing ' cause Yeah.
It was someone who I, it's funny, I don't remember the comment, but it's your response that I remember, which says something about the memorability of that moment and how I felt, , oh, that's right. It was somebody who'd written on Reddit. That they couldn't listen to me because I just talk and talk. I don't say anything and I actually make them want to binge more. I don't remember that specific detail, like no. Yeah.
And I, and I messaged you about it and, , your response was one, to kind of point out how dysregulated somebody might be and that, you know, that whole wanting instant fixes, but you also said that some people find it really orienting to be taken on this path to move around like this, to land as opposed to boom, boom, boom. I can't remember exactly how you said it, but I remember it really, really, yeah. It really spoke to me. So we can do a both, let's just do a both for that one.
Yeah, absolutely. We both, either of us, we have both. Given each other pep talks and the other spiraling. Yes. This is interesting. Okay. The next one is who's more go with the flow and who's asking what time where and what's the backup plan? Okay. I can answer that. Oh, but well, the, yeah, I'm not, no, but both of them are opposites. So who's more this and who's more that? Yeah. So let's just say who's more likely to ask? What time where, and what's the backup plan?
Who's more likely to need to know all the details? Okay. Ready? Yeah. One three, Sarah. Yes. Yeah. Yes. And I would rather go with the flow. Yes. I'm like, no, I, I need a plan. Yeah. I don't, I don't want one. It's gonna contain me. Uh, who's more likely to say we've got time when you Absolutely do not have time. Okay. Ready? 1, 2, 3. I, no, no, that's okay. Um, I feel like the answer's okay. I'm gonna say something, but I might have to talk about it. Um, we'll talk about it. That's fine.
Ready? 1, 2, 3. Sarah. Okay. I put Sarah too. Sorry, I keep not saying it out loud. Okay. . Yeah, I think so. I just feel like in one part of my life, I'm one way and another part the other, but I guess between us. Mm-hmm. Okay. I'll go with that. Yeah. And then I do realize, but sometimes it just takes me a while to realize I get carried away. Then I'm like, hang on a second. Can we, can we back up please? Oh. Who's more likely to plan a spontaneous? This is easy. Okay. 1, 2, 3. Between three.
Sarah. Sarah. Yeah. Because you kiss Because I can, yeah. Right. Exactly. Like it can be a spontaneous trip. Um. Who's more likely to spend money on something completely unnecessary, but cute. Ready? Yeah. 1, 2, 3. Sarah, Sarah, even though you are frivolous bullshit. I know, but that's why, because I don't, right. Oh, number fif. Okay. This one, I'm gonna need a moment to think before you reply, who's more likely, this is the last question, guys. This is fun and not tedious. We're having fun.
Who's more likely to get lost? Even with Google Maps? I got it. I, I don't Got it. Um, oh, okay. Ready? Yeah. 1, 2, 3. 1, 2, 3. Steph. Yeah. I wasn't sure about that because I don't really know whether you get lost or not, but then I just thought I'm more likely when we couldn't find each other. I just, I, I will get con, I'll get overwhelmed with like things, and I'll get, I'll get lost. Mm-hmm. Um, I've gotten lost on Google Maps.
Yeah, I was gonna say we didn't keep score, but there isn't really a score to keep 'cause it's just No, it's just for fun. It's fun. We're all, we're all winners, guys. We're all winners, right. Okay. Precisely. Speaking of winners. Yeah. Why is that funny? Because it's not because we have, what we're about to say has nothing to do with winners, but it's to do with us. So do you wanna I don't. I want you to. Oh, really? Yeah. I don't know why.
Okay. Well, I think one of the reasons that this podcast has meant so much to me is how much I've learned in the process of doing this podcast. And I know Steph feels similarly, that actually a big part of this podcast has been us still cementing our own recovery. And there have been times when we brought things along to the podcast that live in the here and now. Like early on when I was triggered by a photograph that I saw, um, do you have an example for you Father Wound?
I mean, even more recently, the Anger episode. Oh yes, the anger episode. And so this podcast for my own personal growth has been incredible. And we, we've spoken about it. We still love talking about this recovery stuff. So we are not going anywhere. We want to continue talking about recovery. This is our passion and this is where we wanna be. And we also are going to start. A second podcast. Why am I laughing? I don't new music or something's funny. It's like, yeah.
Who's more likely to spontaneously start a new second podcast? Steph, would you like to tell the listener a bit more about Yeah. Podcast number two. So , something that we, we noticed, maybe you noticed along the ride of these 200 episodes is that they started out being very focused on food and body image and the central tenets of recovery in our relationships with food. And can we start getting a little more existential and more start branching off into other topics?
And I think that you and I are both at a place in our lives and in our own, in our own journeys, right, of being able to and wanting to talk about other things that aren't necessarily a central, , like recovery minded necessarily thing. Even though everything. Everything correlates. Everything overlaps, and it's why we've gone into those branches here on this podcast.
But just to have a space where we're , expanding a little bit outside of the scope of just food and body image and talking a little bit more about overarching umbrellas of emotions, , regulation, , people pleasing, introversion and extroversion. Like just the, the things , that recovery has been a gateway for exploring, but just with, yes, a little bit more of a broad audience, a little bit more of a, of permission to maybe not get it.
So not that we, not that we do get it perfect or get it right or that that's the expectation here, but just a little bit more about , exploring our humanness, exploring our human, , . Process, in a way that we also hope. I, I mean, I personally, it just feels like the next thing to help my own. Path because I think that's what keeps us, keeps us committed and keeps us passionate about the work we're doing is that we're learning too, and that we're invested in. It's in, in the here and now.
And it, it's like the next piece of what we're ready for. And hopefully that will add, , you know, layers to your, I mean, everyone here's a human, so it's not gonna be irrelevant. It'll just be relevant in a different, in a different context. And I think the topics and what we'll be talking about will be very supportive in people's recovery. The themes of the podcast. There's two quotes. One which Steph chose and one which I chose, I think. Yeah. Which for us, sum up what the podcast is about.
So I'll do, I'll do my quote and you can do your quote. So my quote is an Eckhart quote, and it's the, I'm not gonna get it verbatim, but it's this idea of being at least as interested in your reactions as you are in the thing that caused your reactions. So that, for me is such an important part of self-growth and how we manage ourselves, or how we learn to react or, or show up differently in areas where we feel like we are not showing up the way that we want to show up.
Mine is, , Carl Young's quote, until we make the unconscious conscious, , it will direct our lives and we'll call it fate. And this just for me, is why I find these conversations helpful, , because it's like excavating what's going on inside and really seeing it in a more organized, concrete way, which is so helpful, I think, to being able to move things around and reorganize things in more helpful ways. Mm-hmm. Would you like to share the title of the podcast? Yeah. We debated this.
We, we worked on this for a while. We narrowed it down to a few, . Contenders and came up with, um, feelings and other inconveniences available now. So the first two episodes will be being released today on the same day as this one. So you can go straight over now. Search Feelings and other inconveniences in the podcast platform. It should be there. Fingers crossed if the technology has gone the way we hope it will.
Uh, and you can check out the first couple of episodes what it means for our posting though, because as you know, Steph and I are in different time zones. We're both running like full private practices and all the other plates that we have spinning. So therefore our posting schedule is gonna look a little bit different. So what we are going to do is there will be. The Life After Diets podcast will be fortnightly and this one will be fortnightly as well.
So we will be releasing an episode every week. So for those of you committed listeners that listen to every episode, thank you. We love having you here. It just may mean that you need to bounce between two different podcasts to hear an episode from us every week. We have a YouTube channel as well that has probably just gone live today. Future Me will have made that YouTube channel go live. Which one of us is most likely to make the YouTube channel go live? Definitely Sarah.
Um, so please come over to YouTube and follow us there. If you are somebody who watches us on YouTube. And as always, we would appreciate your ratings and reviews. You could even use our old standby Nice ladies. Five stars. Is that what it was? Yes. Yeah. Worth a listen. Nice ladies, five stars. Worth a listen. Worth a listen. Oh, yeah. Worth. Listen, come up with a new catchphrase for you. But we really do appreciate it. We'll get our podcast, , out there and you Yeah, yeah.
It'll get it out there. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Exciting stuff. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Thank you all for being here. We hope to see you there as well. And thank you, Sora. Thank you Stephanie, my co-pilot in this journey. Look forward to another 200 episodes with you. Oh my goodness. Bye bye. I.