Who How and Why JFK was Killed

I'm Karen killed JFK.

I mean, I do, because it's really interesting. But I noticed that the calendar says twenty twenty five. He was killed in nineteen sixty three. And so my opinion about who kill JFK has about as much relevance as who killed William McKinley, which is to our James Garfield, which is.

To say, not an enormous amount.

Statement Ben Shapiro made has naturally backfired because now people are questioning Israel's role in John F. Kennedy's assassination, even mind that John F. Kennedy was trying to stop Israel from developing nuclear weapons at the Demona Nuclear Testing Ground. He was also forcing APAC to register as a foreign agent. Obviously after his assassination that didn't happen, and Asnett and

While John F.

Kennedy was trying to stop Israel from developing nuclear weapons, the CIA chief at the time of John F. Kennedy's assassination was actually working with Israeli Massad, sending them radioactive

I'm not going to pretend that I have the answers, ladies and gentlemen I don't really know, but there are experts out there that have spent decades tirelessly researching every aspect of the JFK assassination. And I am thrilled today thanks to my friend Richard Booth, who is an OKC expert, to invite on and to have on mister Jim Dugenio.

Thank you so much for doing me, Jim nice, nice to be here.

And by the way, that that overture that's see, this is something that not very many people know about. Is you have to have the story there, okay, about Demona and the repatriotation of the thousands of Palestinian refugees that Kennedy was advocating for. But there's another part of the equation.

So Kennedy was.

Really caught in a very difficult situation with this new Middle East policy that he was trying.

You know.

It was like trying to juggle four eggs at the same time, you know, And so it was a very difficult task that he had and make no mi stake both the Israelis and the Saudis understood what he was trying to do, and they really didn't like it. In fact, beyond that, they were trying to subvert it. All right, Okay,

That's how much Nasser loved Kennedy.

When Kennedy passed away, Nasser couldn't sleep, okay, and then he he demanded that Egyptian television play his funeral. I think three or four times that he had had broadcast on Egyptian national television, you know. And Kennedy's death is, of course what led I believe to the sixty seven war, because Johnson and just about every president afterwards, whereas Kennedy was trying to do a balancing act, everybody else just

I've evolved my position on this overtime for the longest time, you know, being a libertarian, I'm very skeptical of my own intelligence agencies, and I've always just assumed it was probably FBI, LBJCIA, you know, inside job, and I still

So I am.

I'm much more open to all participants at this point, and as I said, I don't have a really firm conclusion, but at this point I do think that that in terms of motive, just motive alone, it does seem as if Israel had the most motive.

Well, okay, I'll get that now. Let me interrupt you there for a second.

Sure, there's a lot of institutions who had a lot of different reasons for killing JFK.

You just mentioned a few of them, okay.

But see, then what we do is we get into the actual investigation of the crime and the forensics of the crime. I've been doing this for thirty two years now, okay. And see there isn't any evidence for say, like the Mossad, you know, when you examine the actual crime scene and stuff like that.

Okay.

So as George Galloway once, I was on his show a few months ago, and we talked about this, okay, and he asked me this question, and I said, you know, I've never seen any evidence, you know, for the Mossad or the Israelis being behind the Kennedy assassination. And he said, neither have I. But I don't think they shed in these tears about his death. So I think that's the

To the modern world.

Oh, I completely agree, and I think that's why it created such a firestorm when Ben Shapiro said that, you know, who really cares?

What's it matter? What difference does it make?

What matter?

Well, it was a sitting United States president that was assassinated, and we still don't really have the answer as to who and why. And yeah, I don't think that there's many things that matter more. According to Ron Paul, that was the moment that the Republic ended. So that's a pretty big deal from Ron Paul's perspective. Ben Shapiro, I

Well, see that that's what a lot of people are thinking.

That see, because Angleton more or less ran the Mossad desk at the CIA, and see as more of these, more and more of these documents come out, it bes beginning to look like at the very least, you know that Angleton knew everything that os Hoold was doing, you know, up until yeah, a long long time. And as people have come to the conclusion, Angleton had a something like a I think one hundred and eighty page DOSSI eight on Oswald by the day of the by the day

I remember that story, but please recap it.

Yeah, yeah, Kim Philby was a British six liason and you don't know six is there CIA?

Okay?

He was a liaison to Langley. Excuse me, he wasn't Langby the CIA headquarters, you know, in the nineteen fifties, and he and Angleton became best buddies, all right, But what happened was Philby was actually a Russian agent, Okay, he snookered Angleton, hook Line and Sinker, and Angleton's rival in the CIA, a guy named Bill Harvey. All Right, he suspected that Philby was a Russian agent undercover, and Angleton didn't, all right, And when we're came the worst.

And then he.

Started talking about how he had taken Angleton for a.

Ride, okay.

And this really really did something to James Angleton, okay when he was exposed, you know, and and and the CIA gave Harvey a lot of credit for suspecting this, you know, whereas Angleton was more or less out on the the out in the.

Cold the whole time.

And so this really kind of radicalized Angleton, okay, to the point that he began to suspect everything left and right, you know, was part of this giant communist conspiracy. And this went on until finally Angleton was fired by Bill Colby in nineteen seventy five because he had more or less paralyzed the whole CIA, you know, and into this whole paranoid state. And a lot of people think that

And one other point that we should bring up.

When Alan Dulles died in nineteen sixty nine, James Angleton carried his ashes to the burial. That's how close James Angleton was to Dulles. And now flash back to nineteen sixty one.

It was John F.

Kennedy who fired Alan Dulles, right, all right, okay, And Angleton owed his whole career.

Was Dulls the original head of the CIA.

Well, Dulles was the head of the CIA, he was director of the CIA. Angleton was head of counterintelligence, all right. And they used to call Angleton no knock Angleton because he was the only guy that could walk into Dulles's office unannounced.

That's how on good terms they were.

So when you can imagine the way Angleton felt when Dulles was fired, okay. And by the way, it wasn't just Dulles. Kennedy also fired Cabell okay, who was the deputy director, and he also fired Bissle Dick Bissell, who was a director of plans. Now, I don't know if you understand this, but the reason for these firings and the reason for us is in the media right now.

Happened, all right.

And then he made that famous edge, which I'm sure you're familiar with, that he was gonna splinter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds, all right. And this is when Schleschinger, who was a White House eight at that time, he and Kennedy decided that they were going to go ahead and revamp the CIA. Okay, and and the Slushinger pri And by the way, I'm sure you're aware of this. That memo that Schleschinger wrote has only now only now been completely declassified. Can you

You know, and the thing doesn't doesn't that scream? There's a reason for that classification?

I would I would think so.

Yeah.

See, one of the things that that the CI didn't want you to know.

Is this that.

In just for example, in the American embassy in Paris, the CIA had one hundred and twenty eight agents under State Department cover in that one embassy.

All right, that was one.

Of the things that the American embassy in Paris.

Now, why is that so important?

Because Charles de Gaune, the president of France, strongly suspected that the CIA was helping the renegade band of Algerian officers, the OAS, to overthrow him. Okay, and during the attempt at overthrow, should explain what the OAS was. Yeah, that won't take long. See, sure, France was involved in this civil war off their Northern Africa colony Algeria that wanted to be free, okay, and there was and de Gaulle

And so this is why that memo.

Which in which Schleschinger exposed how the State Department had been penetrated by the CIA. This is why the CI didn't want to know anything about it. Now, let me give you a little backstory on this, as I think most of your listeners know. From nineteen ninety four to nineteen ninety eight, because of the firestorm over Oliver Stone's

And they declassified about me in pages. But they're not done yet.

And so this is why Trump had designed that executive order. Prior to the creation of that board, the CIA had classified. Now get this, the Strutchinger memo sixteen pages long. They had cut it down to five pages, and of those five pages, three of them were completely blacked out, were completely with They didn't want you to know anything about the Schleschinger Memo, all right. So then when the review board came in in ninety four, they managed to declassify.

Were there under CIA cover.

And Schlessinger said, more or less, how do you run your foreign policy when almost half of these people in these embassies are CIA agents? Okay, And let's just remember in nineteen sixty one, not only did the CIA capsize the Bay of Pigs by lying the JFK about it, because he never would have launched it if you would have known what the real circumstances were. They not only were urging the oas to overthrow the gaull in Paris.

But.

They had subverted JFK's policy in Congo. Congo was a former Belgians colony that had just been set free, and a man named Patrice Lamumba had won a democratic election under a constitutional republic. All right, he was going to be the first elected president of Congo. Well, Dullasnesse I didn't like this, and neither did Eisenhower, all right, and they devised a series of plans to assassinate Lamumba, all right. And I believe there were like four or five plots

To place.

Lamumba under house arrest. And then once he was set free. Once he escaped from house arrest and he was fleeing to his base in Stanleyville, the CIA helped his enemies because there was a secession crisis. The state of Katanga, with British and Belgian help, was going to try and break away from the rest of the Congo, and Lamumba was resisting this. They helped track Lamumba and turn him over and fly him to Katanga, where he was placed

They just burned the rest of the corpse.

Okay, so these are the kind of things that the CIA was doing to toward Kennedy's foreign policy.

And remember this is just sixty one.

Where you have Congo, you have France, okay, and and which one am I forgetting?

Okay? And the Bay of Pigs. Right, you have these three. This is just nineteen sixty one.

So what choice did Kennedy have except the fire Allen Dullas and decapitate, you know, like taking Cabell out and Bissel, all right. And then he reduced their budget by about twenty percent, all right. And then he tried to pass this reform thing, you know, him Instructioninger got together and tried to reform the whole CIA from top to bottom, but they met too much resistance and the guy that they had picked out, there was no way they were going to be able to get him through.

So what JFK did.

Instead was to pass the famous National Security Action Memorandums fifty five, fifty six, and fifty seven to limit what the CI could do in covert action and bring more under this supervision of the Pentagon, which Kennedy thought he could control more because that's a more open group than the CIA. And then they brought in John McCone, okay, to be the new director. All right, now, I don't have to tell you or your listeners that this didn't

Kennedy.

And this is why here we are in a new millennium, twenty twenty five, and we had to have Trump's executive order and somebody like Chelsea Gabbard to try and go ahead and declassify the rest of these documents. I think we're up to seventy seven thousand pages now that are being finally declassified.

Well, here's a question for you, because I got so many different directions I could take this, But first off, I want to point out you've got the arming the insurgency in Congo, also doing it in France. That's exactly what the CIA continues to do to this day. They did it in Syria, They've done it in Yeahmin, in Lovethon, all over the place. So whatever his reforms that he attempted to make, they don't seem to have stuck. Like

Is there any truth to that? What are your thoughts?

The briefest of interruptions, My apologies, but Mike Lindell and his employees want to personally thank you for your continued support of my pillow. They have a big allotment of their bed sheets that were earmarked for the box stores this spring. Well they did it again. The box stores didn't come through, so they're going to pass the savings on to you. Now there's no middleman, so you're going to get wholesale prices on their famous Giza Dreams and

You some cozy.

Okay, let me let me give the answer to that question in two stages. I'm sure you're aware that this was a third plot to kill Kennedy in just the autumn of nineteen sixty three.

Actually that oh you didn't know, okay.

No, there had been a plot in Tampa and the guy there was the fall guy. There was Gilberto Lopez, all right. That was one of the longest motorcades in presidential history. And there had been a tip about Gilberto Lopez being set up, and they brought in all this security, and the whole the Floridian Hotel where Kennedy ended up at, was covered floor by floor, all right. And then Kennedy was so grateful that that he'd been well protected he called in all the agents afterwards, okay, and shook their

That was Kennedy.

Canceled his trip to Chicago, and they apprehended Vala before uh he was supposed to arrive. And that's the way that was foiled.

Okay, Now real quick, were those Hispanic names? Were they going to be Cuban? Was at the angle that.

They were a lot of people believe that.

See, Lopez had attended a Fair Play for Cuba committee meeting and that was the organization of the Oswald was advocating for in New Orleans.

Then if you can believe this, right around the.

Time of the actual assassination, Lopez flies to Texas, then he flies to Mexico City, and then he flies It's the only passenger on a Cubana airline into Cuba.

Now that's pretty interesting.

Okay, you know, and the Warrant Commission didn't make anything of that, now.

Right right, don't. I can't explain that, But that's the case, all right. Now.

Valley in Chicago had a profile similar to Oswald. He had been in the Marine Corps. He had been at a base where a U. Two plane flew out of like Oswald, and he had been a trainer.

I think it was.

On Long Island, Okay, of anti Castro Cuban exiles, you know, very similar profile to Osweald.

All right, now, can these be just a coincidence?

I mean, this is all in just November of nineteen sixty three. Now, of course, as everybody knows, including all your listeners, you know, Oswald was seen at a training base for CIA in the Cuban exiles, you know, down in New Orleans. He had been at a base in Japan that housed the U two. Now getting back to the original idea, Yes, I believe there are many, many, many indications that Oswald was recruited as a double agent, all right by the CIA.

And this is why he's learning Russian in the Marine Corps.

Can you imagine this, a guy getting Russian newspapers, in Russian records and in his barracks, going ahead and trying to learn Russian, okay, in the Marine Corps at the high of the Cold War.

All right.

Then he gets not unless and then he gets what's called a hardship discharge about six or seven or eight months after before he's supposed to be discharged. He gets let go on a hardship, and the hardship was that he had to take care of his mother back in Texas. Okay, well, Oswald, it usually takes three to six months to get a hardship discharge. Oswald got his in eleven days, all right. Then he didn't He went to Texas for seventy two hours,

Then he's allowed to go.

All the way to New Orleans. Then he goes across the Atlantic. Then he goes to England, to France and Helsinki. And Helsinki.

Is the only.

Capital in Europe where you could get a visa into the Soviet Union in less than a week.

All right.

Now, while Oswald's there, he's now here's a guy who's supposed to be an impoverished marine.

All right.

He's traveling all the way out of the United States, across the Atlantic, across Europe. And when he gets to Helsinki, he stays at two four star hotels, the Hotel at Tourney and the Klaus Kerrique which you know are like very very high fluting kind of hotels.

All right, why would you do that? Okay?

And so then he goes into the Soviet Union, all right, and they suspect right off that he's a CIA agent. They don't trust him at all, okay, and so they don't allow him to stay in Moscow. And then they send in the Minsk okay, four hundred miles away, and they surround him with a ring of intelligence agents okay. And then they actually place a listening device in his apartment. And by the way, he has a very nice apartment overlooking a lake.

All right.

And so these are all the earmarks that seemed to indicate that Oswald was some kind of intelligence agent. Now let me add one last thing, the Oswalt's file. When the House Select Committee examined Oswald in the CIA, they assigned a woman named Betsy Wolf to examine Oswald's intelligence file at the CIA. Betsy Wolf first asked for all the division charters the CIA. I think there's nine divisions. She read them all through. Then she did a little graph. Okay, well,

All right, it went there.

And there was no tool one file on Oswald for thirteen months. The tool one file is the most common file in the CIA. If Oswald defected, he should have had a tool on one file. Well he didn't, all right, And so this very much made Betsy Wolf very puzzled. Why did Oswald file not do any of this stuff?

And so she started calling in. So she started calling in all these retired.

CI officers and she asked them and she goes, isn't this weird?

And they said, yeah, that is weird.

His file should have gone to the SR division, And you're right, there should have been a tool one file opened up on him almost immediately once to see how he got the news that he had defected. So she called in guy after guy, and they all agree with her, but nobody can answer the question. So finally, in November of nineteen seventy eight, just when the House Select Committee is ready to adjourn.

She calls in this.

Guy named Robert Gambino, and Gambino is the head of the Officers security at that time at that time, in nineteen.

Seventy eight seventy nine.

So she poses this question to him. To her, she poses this question to him. He says, Look, it doesn't matter how many documents come in, and it doesn't matter if they're pre stamped.

If the client.

Has gone to the first gate, which is the Office of Male Logistics, and he has requested that they go there, they will go there. In other words, and this is one of the most startling discoveries we've made. Somebody had rigged Oswalt's file from the very beginning at CIA. Now why anybody would want to do that, and for what reason they would want to do that, and how they can to have that kind of foresight into what somebody nobody knew about at that time.

This is one of the greatest mysteries you know, that we have about about Lee Harvey Oswald. So yes, I mean that Oswald was an agent from the beginning.

Yeah, well I agree, And so I mean the obvious answer as to why they would have obfuscated his files from its inception is because he was brought in explicitly for really nefarious shit like assassinations of presidents or assassinations of civil rights leaders or who knows what I mean that that would be My initial assumption is that yours or am I reaching?

Well?

I believe that from the beginning. I don't think they could have figured that out that early. But from the beginning Oswald was going to be a double agent, okay, And they did not want anybody to know about this, all right, because I think they believe he was going to be a valuable double agent that he could spy on the Russians for them after he learned the Russian language, et cetera.

You know. And when that did not work.

Out because a KGB was too smart, okay, then he was brought back to do his mission with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. This was in nineteen sixty one. It's hard to remember this, but in nineteen sixty one, this was a very high prestige organization that wanted the CIA, the White House, the Pentagon, et cetera, to let the United States coexist with Cuba, all right. And it had people like Norman Mailer and other celebrities you know, who were a part of it. They took out a full

All right. Now, Oswald, of course.

Was leafleting in the streets of New Orleans, and he was trying to call meetings, et cetera. And he was really, in reality, he was trying to find out who is a Communist sympathizer in New Orleans.

It never figured him.

That maybe somebody had a different agenda for him than just you know, setting up the fair Play for Cubic Committee.

And he very stupidly.

Stamped on one of the leaflets he was handing out the address of five forty four Camp Street, which of course, is where Guy Banister's offices were at that time in the summer of nineteen sixty three, right, And it was this, that stamping of that address that eventually led Jim Garrison to walk down to five point forty four Camp Street because he remembered he had an acquaintanceship with Banister and find out that Banister's office was there in nineteen sixty three,

I like some legal representations. Police officers not allowed me to have any. I don't know what this is all about. I work in that building. Naturally, if I work in that building, because of the fact that I lived in the.

Yeah, I'm.

All right.

They've taken me in because I've been to the Soviet Union, Okay, And he's exactly right.

That's that's the reason that.

He And by the way, he didn't have a lawyer the whole time he was in detention. That was from Friday to Sunday. And there's evidence that the Dallas police for trying to discourage him a certain lawyer from actually going in and representing him.

You know.

So here's a you know, I think, to get back the original question, this guy was the perfect Patsy. He'd been to the Soviet Union, he had been a pseudo communist on the streets in New Orleans. They said, he had been to Mexico City, and he had been to both the Cuban and the Soviet consulates there, trying to get back to the Soviet Union. So when all this stuff comes down and he's on this building, he's in this building where the motorcade route. Hey, you couldn't have

Got well, they sure did.

But yeah, well those are two dress rehearsals. You know, we get it. The third time you.

Get the right well, and what it makes me think is, well, first off, the fact that the Secret Service stopped.

The one in I guess you said it was Orlando. Was Orlando the first one?

It's the secret the Secret Service.

What happened there in Tampa was that because of the FBI lead, they brought in not just extra Secret Service guys, they brought in FBI guys, they brought in state police guys. There were I think something like along the parade route and in the hotel there was something like seventy five agents, Okay, which is just the opposite of what happened in Dallas. In the Dallas incident, you had a security stripping.

Of the motor and this is this is a defects.

This is all despite the fact that Oswald is working in the book depository on the route, and Angleton has one hundred plus page dossier on Oswald. And you think that the security was reduced accidentally. I'm sorry, but that just that just doesn't add up. But anyways, the point I'm trying to get to is that you have these three attacks or attempted attacks that all coincide, and you know, rapid succession, very very short time frame.

It seems to me in about one month.

Yeah, I mean that's I know that it's regular. You know, it's not totally rare for there to be attempts on president's lives, but three in a month seems as if there's a fucking operation being ran.

You have all of the.

Backstory to Oswald, which makes it seem as if he's almost certainly a CIA agent. You have the CIA who's putting him in these positions that basically tarnish his reputation and make him look like at the perfect fall guy. We're gonna blame it on Cuba, We're gonna blame it on the USSR. It's like he's the perfect guy to go down for this thing. He refers to himself as a patsy. They won't give him an attorney. It all seems to me is if he's probably innocent of the crime.

Who pulled the trigger?

Jim, Yeah, Well my.

Yeah, it's funny this is I've just asked this question this morning. You know, when people ask me, I have to say something. I don't want to dodge the question, you know.

Which would be the prudent thing to do.

You know, But in my opinion, the CIA and the Cuban exiles were responsible for the actual assassination. Then when Oswald survived the Texas theater, when he managed to get out of there alive, and they started parading him in front of these crowds, and he comes off looking too well, proclaiming his innocence. I believe that the agency called in their good friends, organized crime, who they had tried to

And we know this because.

He made out a request to make this phone call the secret Service vetoed that request. There were two secretaries there, and one of them wrapped it up and threw it in the trash can. The other secretary was very curious as to why that was vetoed, so she fished it out of the trash can, brought it home, kept it, and showed it to some people. Well, imagine this, John Hurt turned out to be a military intelligence officer. Okay, now, ay,

And in that area, not in proximity, but in.

That area, there was a place called the nags Had Base, which was a staging ground to send Naval Office defectors to the Soviet Union. Oswald, being in the Marines would come under the purview of the Navy. So this is why Victor Marquetti, who had been in the CIA and had written a best selling book about his experience the CIA and the Culton Intelligence, when he was told this, he was shocked, and he said, when Oswald made that request,

Day, Jack Ruby. Now, now imagine this, I imagine this. I don't know how old you are, but you've seen films of this.

Of course, there were literally scores of people in that basement of the Dallas Police headquarters, all right. They had all of these newsmen, all these newspaper guys, and the cops were supposed to escort Oswald out in what is called a four corner pocket protection. That what that means is this, you have one guy on one side, one guy on the other, one guy behind them, one guy

All right. Now, there's a whole.

Long story I could go into, but we probably don't have time to do it as to how the heck Ruby ever got in to the Dallas Police headquarters, all right, Because there was a guy clearing people at the at the Main Street ramp and the House Select Committee on Assassinations did not believe that Ruby came in.

That way, which is how he said he came in.

Are you going to show the assassination of Oswald? I sure, am, okay, go ahead.

Mudon reporters and cameraman were waiting for Oswald to come down an elevator there to the right to be transferred to another jail. A man named Ruby was waiting too. The scene began with the familiar routine of news coverage of public events. The officers come down. There goes Ruby toward Oswald. He's firing. Oswald slumps to the floor, and as he does, the police officers beside him leap upon Ruby as we now know him to be after the confusion had sorted itself out, throw him to the ground.

You notice that, and if you want to show it again, that's fine with me. Fritz doesn't even turn around until the gun goes off. I mean, this is the kind of police you had in Dallas.

It's it's amazing.

They leave his his front wide open, and no one even appears to draw their gun after like shots are getting fired. It's it's it's just not how cops react to shit.

It's just now.

Let me tell you.

The Warrant Commission was very aware of the evidentiary problem this created, so they tried to get away with saying that Oswald might have known something like sixty years seventy excuse me, Ruby might have known sixty years seventy Dows police officers. There was a witness they had who had

If he was just waiting to take him out.

He was stalking Oswald that Friday night. That Friday night when the Henry Wade, the DA had the famous midnight press conference, okay about what the state of the case was, and he screwed up the organization that Oswald worked for he called it the Free Cuba Committee.

It wasn't.

Jack Ruby raises his hand in the back of the room with glasses on and a tablet in front of him, and he says, no, mister Wade, it's the fair Play for Cuba Committee. So he actually corrects Wade the very first night that he's in the office. How the heck did Ruby know that? And by the way he disguised.

Two nights later he's then his assassin.

So two days later he's right.

And by the way, that morning, that Sunday morning, he got to the police headquarters at about nine thirty and he's actually asking when are they going to bring Oswald down? Now, look, if you have the guy there Friday night and he's correcting the DA about the proper organization.

That the guy works for.

And then on Sunday morning he gets there early to find out when the transfer is all right, then I think there's something, you know, something going on.

With this, yeah, you know.

And the whole thing about how Ruby got in the house selectimitt.

He never believed that he came in through the main ramp.

They think he had help through the police to actually get in the back door.

Because let me let me say this.

If you've never been to Dallas, you have to be there to see that.

The back entrance.

Way of the Dallas it was actually City Hall, the Dallas Police are in the basement, is right across the street from the Western Union Station.

Let me say that again.

The back entryway to the Dallas Police headquarters is across the street from the Western Union Station, which is where Ruby was.

And if you if you don't see this, you can't imagine it. But all all all.

The policemen would have to do is like wave okay, and Ruby.

Could come in and get in the back way. All right.

So this is something, by the way, you will not find in the warn report. You won't see a picture of the back door across the street from the Western Union Station, you know, because it would make it too obvious if what the heck is really going on?

Well, and then just let me just finish this something else.

If you see films, there's a very famous underground film on YouTube. Maybe you've heard of it, maybe you haven't. It's called evidence of Revision. They have these movies that I've never seen before. From nineteen sixty three, right before they bring Oswald down, Ruby is hiding behind this policeman named Blackie Harrison, who's a real big guy. He's like six three two fifty. You can very easily see Ruby hiding behind him before Oswald comes into the foyer.

And one last thing.

If you listen closely, you will hear horn go off when Oswald comes into the foyer area. Then you will see here a second horn go off right before Ruby breaks from the crowd and shoots Oswald. Now Here, here's the kapper, here's the kapper about this? And this story always gets more and more bizarre. I hadn't seen these videos. There was only one network at that time to carry the Murder of Oswald, which is NBC.

And I had a tape of it.

Of course, a friend of mine calls me up and he says, Jim, what version of the Murder of Oswald.

Do you have?

I said, what are you talking about? What version of the Murder of Oswald do I have? He says, do you have the one with no horns? One horn or two horns? And I said, of course I have the one with one horn. Okay, then you have the editor one. I said, what are you talking about? And head I'll send you the real one. So he sends me the real one, and there.

It is two horns.

Okay, they edited this, the networks have edited this to make sure you don't see here are those two horns going off.

That's very interesting And and do I have this right? But wasn't Ruby? As soon as he was arrested for the assassination of Oswald? He's then he's gonna I think he's gonna testify, and and he's met in prison by Jolly West, who was responsible for the most you know, nefarious psychological experiments that were happening by the CIA at the time, and he loses his fucking mind and then dies.

Am I wrong about that?

I hate to say this, but you're not wrong about THEA.

Whenever you think that this case cannot be any worse, okay, whenever you think this case cannot be more censored, you're exactly correct. We just ran an article at my website called Kennedy's and King about this very subject by a guy named Washburn.

Okay.

He examined this issue like nobody has ever examined it before. And the sum total is you're correct. How on earth Jolly West was allowed to go in and treat Jack Ruby and destabilize him to the point that he was.

And you're you're I'm sorry, just a.

Minute, Cassandraw, I'm doing an interview right now.

Why don't you give me about a half an hour? Okay, thank you, all right?

How now imagine this situation. Here's the guy who just murdered Oswald, and somehow the Dallas police let Jolly West come in and treat Ruby. Now what credentials did Jolly West have except that he worked for the CIA part of their mk Ultra program for another and he comes in. It's just this is just a coincidence that he comes in and he's allowed to treat Ruby, and Ruby starts having delusions. He's destabilized, and he's writing these nutty letters,

He was involved with CIA gun running.

We know this because we know people who saw him, you know, off the coast of Texas running guns, you know, into Cuba, all right. And and also he wasn't f behind formant and the Warren Commission never breathed the word of any of this stuff, of any of this stuff, you know that's not an accident.

Well no, I don't think so. You know. Let me here's a capit of that story.

Even the Warren Commission, the two man team on the Ruby Desk, even they complained that they weren't getting the right information from the FBI and the CIA because they said, look, if there's a connection between Jack Ruby and Oswald. I remember this is nineteen sixty four. They're saying this, it most likely is in the area of the anti Castro Cuban exile community.

All right, that's where it lies.

And they were essentially begging to get information about that nexus. Bert Griffin, who was one of the guys on the Ruby Desk, when he testified before the House Select Committee, they asked him, we have this written request from you that you want information about Jack Ruby from this CIA. You made this request in May of nineteen sixty four. Do you recall when you got the reply? And Griffin did not want to answer the question, and they said,

It took five months for you.

To get an answer to your query. Now, why is that so interesting? Because the warrant commissioned volumes were published in September the twenty eighth, So in other words, he gets the reply three weeks before, or they're going to the printer's office before. Okay, right, yeah, so this is this is how bad the Warren Commission was on this subject of Jack Ruby and his multifarious illegal.

Kind of activities, which made.

Him the perfect guy, you know, to go in and rub out. Also because he knew him almost every half the police force. And by the way, when I say half the police force, that's conservative, because there are people who said he knew even.

More than that.

Those guys you can imagine when when Ruby's walking around there, they're probably saying.

Hello to them.

You know, he's right waiting for Oswald to come down so he could kill him.

Yeah, he's so well, he's so well tied in it's unbelievable. And I mean the fact that he loses his mind, uh, right after Jolly West meets him is just like look, at some point you just have to take a leap of faith and go like, all right, the CIA used the guy to take out their patsy, and then they used their guy to take out the hitman against the patsy, and then that's how you tie the bow and it's over.

Like.

But but you if they're going to do that, you have to assume that they were behind the assassination to begin with.

That is there's all kinds of suspicion right there, you know. I mean, I'm so glad you brought this up about Jolly West because hardly anybody ever.

Talks about this.

I mean anybody talks about it.

You know, And it's so it's like, you know, it's like to me, it's like an arrow hitting the center of the.

Target, exactly right.

I think I think it is. I think it's the most damning evidence aside from like if you had footage of a CIA agent pulling the trigger, like it's it's so it's such a big deal. But all right, so you said earlier, and I need to dig in because we're kind of bearing the lead here. You believe that it was Cuban revolutionaries and CIA that actually pulled the trigger?

Do you know they were?

They were involved in the plot, the setting up of Oswald and then the Uh, we don't have to go into this, but if you take a look at the trap in d Lee Plaza, you know you've got the dal Text building. You know, behind you've got the grassy knoll. Okay up here, and then you have the Texas school Book Depository and you have what's you probably heard of this because when I interviewed people in the military, Jim, this is what you call an L shaped ambush because you have at the long end of the L, you

And that's what Dealey Pla was. Yeah, no, I agree with that.

And I'm just curious, do you think that Oswald actually fired a shot or not?

No?

No, you I mean, look, but you believe that a shot was fired from from the book depository, but.

It just wasn't. But not at that window. I think it was at the other end. Okay, r.

Sebastian Latona, if you don't know who he was, was the FBI's number one fingerprint analyst. Let me say something about this introduction before we get to the point. I know a DA from New York City who studied the Kennedy assassination, and I asked them about Sebastian Latona, because, Jim, do you know how good Sebastian Latona was. Every DA in the country wanted him to testify in their case.

Then he brought in his.

Photographer and they lit up the thing and they took pictures. Okay, they spent hours trying to get prints off this rifle. They could not get any what they call usable prints off the rifle. That is, you had to have something like eight points of identification on the print. They could never get those off that rifle. So I don't believe that that that that you could.

Have convicted on Oswald.

So Vashal Latona would have been a great, great witness, you know, for a not guilty verdict, all right. And on top of that, I don't think he was on the sixth floor. I don't think Ozel was on the sixth floor at that window. So answer the short answer to the question, I don't think OsO was involved in the actual shooting.

That's that's amazing, And I mean, but at the end of the day, doesn't really matter if you can convict him in court, because you intend to take him out anyways. So right, who really cares he's in the public guy in the public guy, he's already going to be, you know, the fall guy or the guilty party. What I really want to ask is something that has bugged me forever.

And then the which.

Probably would have been fatal in its own regard, but the one that really does the business to him, that launches his head backwards. It appears to come from I think it's from the grassy knoll, but it could be from another location. I'm not sure, but it appears to come from the front. What's your opinion on that.

Well, I totally agree with that.

The fatal headshot if you watch a defruiter film, knocks Kennedy backwards with such force that he bounces off.

The back seat exactly all right.

Now, on top of that, forty two witnesses at Parkland Hospital and but does the medical center all said that they saw a baseball size hole in the back of Kennedy's skull, which is trying to make an addicative of an exit moon because I don't have to tell you this, but for people who aren't aware of is you know. And when bullet wounds come in, they make small entrance wounds,

You know what, his wife, His wife hops up on the back of the car to go pick up the back of his head.

That's exactly correct. You you see.

You you couldn't write this thing for a sci fi short story.

But his wife, when they asked.

Her, they said, why were you going out the back of the car, because you can see her reaching out for something on the on the trunk of the car, and she said, I was reaching for a part of his skull that had flown out the back. She had a panic attack. And but you don't know the cap or to that one. She actually gave it to one of the doctors at Parkland Hospital.

When she got there, she was still holding it. Yeah, she was holding it the whole way.

Yeah, holy shit. I mean that's a that's a good wife. I'll give her credit for that. Yeah, all right, So yeah, my my read to this. A lot of people have called me crazy for years for saying that, but I'm like, look, I'm just telling you what I see.

Man.

It looks clear as day that the definitive kill shot, the one that really there's no chance you're coming back from it comes.

From the front. Do you do you know who that gunman was?

No?

Now, now look I can theorize, you know, and all this stuff, you know, but no, I I don't. I don't know who the actual guy was in the front, all right, But I can tell you there's all kinds of evidence that there was a guy you know, on the grass, you know, Okay, And I believe that is You're exactly correct, that was the one that was the coup de gras, right, you know, and it came from the front. Now, let me tell you something else, but you're probably aware of. The Zapruiter film was not shown

Okay, you're talking twelve years.

It took twelve years to show the Zapruder film on national television.

Are you are you chilling it up?

I'm actually I'm looking for Dan Raggy describing the Zapruder film because because he lies through his fucking teeth.

Then.

His head fell violently forward.

Yeah, exactly right.

I'm seeing if I can find it it's I bookmarked a bunch of stuff, but I may not be able to find this one because there was so much information. So you can you can keep going in the meantime, all right.

And so if he watches a Fruiter film, and by the way, Dan Rather saw this the Bruder film, all right. The most memorable thing about the Fruiter film, of course, is a tremendous force which I mean, it looks like he got hit by a baseball bat that he rock gets backward and he literally bounces off the back seat,

All right.

This is this is truly unbelievable, you know. And then when the American you got.

It, I got it. Let me let me just run a little bit of it.

And keep in mind here that President Kennedy and Governor Connolly are seated on both on the same side of the car, on the side facing the building. Missus Kennedy and Missus Connolly are on the side of the car away from the assassin, about thirty five yards from the base of the building. President Kennedy in the film put his hand up to the right side of his face aside facing the assassin. He seemingly wanted to brush back

She was not looking at her husband.

At that moment, when the President had his right hand up to the side of his face, he lurched just a bit forward. It was obvious the first shot had hit him. Missus Kennedy was not looking at him, and nor did she appeared to know at.

That instant that her husband had been hit.

Governor Connolly in the seat immediately in front of the President apparently either heard the shot or sensed that something was wrong, because Governor Connolly, with his coat opened his button was undone, turned in this manner, his hand outstretched back for the President, and the governor had a look on his face that would indicate he perhaps was.

Saying what's wrong, or what happened? Or can I help or something.

But as Governor Connolly was turned this way, his white shirt front exposed well to the view of the assassin. The governor was obviously hit by a bullet and he fell over to the side. Governor Connolly's wife immediately seemingly instantaneously placed herself over her husband in a protective position, it appeared, and as Governor Connolly fell back to President Kennedy was still leaned over at that moment, another bullet obviously get the head of the president. The President's head

She stood up. The President slumped over to the.

Side, and I believe rushed against Missus Kennedy's.

Dress.

Okay, I gotta show you guys this because I didn't intend to show it because I wasn't sure how how YouTube would treat me. But fuck it, we're already deep down the rabbit hole. So I'm going to play this apruder film. You guys can see it if you think that Dan Rather's interpretation of this event is accurate or not. Coming down the causeway here and first shot hit him in the neck already from from behind, and then the legal does I mean, does he go forward at all?

That is about the most misleading description that I think I've ever seen of a major event, even for the MSM.

That's bad.

It's unbelievable, and and the only the only way he can get away with that is because the public couldn't see that fucking footage, right, I mean, it's just it's unbelievable. I just want the audience to understand what he's saying, and I didn't play you the full five minute clip. What he says in the lead up to that is I have had the opportunity to watch this footage and I'm going to describe it to you. Take my word

Here we go.

And then he gives this bullshit story that is totally not reflective of what you see with your own two eyes.

And it's just like I mean, it's obviously a cover up.

And once again, this ties into mocking Bird, This ties into CIA, This ties into them giving him the script by which they cover up their own actions. I'm sorry, but it just seems to me like a smoking gun on so many levels. CIA did it.

And by the way, this was the big step for Dan rather to go up to hierarchy at CBS. He was just a local reporter until this happened. And then he blows this story completely and he goes up to laddersde this is the way you get ahead.

In the MSM.

That's exactly right, because now he's their trusted guy. He carried he carried water in probably the biggest lie they ever told, or one of them, and now he's a trusted you know, puppet for him. It's just disgusting. It's disgusting. Like I can't believe that no one has ever I've never seen footage of Dan Rather being you know, accosted with this like why did you lie to us? Like you clearly lied to us, you son of a bit.

You.

I've never seen anybody do it. But he absolutely deserves that. I mean, it's it's such an egregious lie. His head does not go forward, you lying.

Fuck.

His head snaps back about as hard as it possibly can, and I add a huge chunk of his scull goes flying backwards. It's it's I'm sorry for the audience that I had to play it, but you have to. You have to see both in secessions so you could really understand the level of deception.

It's just disgusting. Makes me so mad.

All right, So I got one more question for you, because we're kind of laid on time here, but and I know we could do this for a dozen hours straight if we wanted to. I'm very curious because, as I said in the open, you know, Ron Paul has already basically, you know, declared that that was the day the Republic died. That it's obvious to me that that Ron believes Doctor Paul believes that the CIA took out JFK.

No? I don't. I don't. I don't think you are.

And by the way, I'll answer it this way, okay, And I think this can close it out pretty well. A friend of mine who is a higher up and former CIA guy in the Washington area, said that he knew a guy in the Obama administration and after Obama got reelected because he was disappointed that Obama had not accomplished very much in its first four years. And so he says he's such as a president what happened to hope and change? Because that was the big model that

That's a good way to close it out.

It's scary.

It's scary to I mean, there's like there's parts of me that don't want to believe it, but there's just so much evidence that what I just said is right, that like we there's no vote in your way out of it, that these people have just extraordinary power. I guess I'll end with one final question because I've always wondered this, and I doubt you have an answer, because I'm sure most people have no clue. But you've done

Yes?

Yeah, well, now now very quickly, because you could you could talk about this for four days, Okay, But there at that time in history, all right, we're talking about nineteen sixty three, and let's make it a little wider frame. From about the fifties to the early sixties, there was something called the Eastern Establishment. Right now, today the Eastern Establishment isn't anywhere near as powerful as it was back

I believe that Alan Dulles.

Who I believe was part of the plot, would never have done this unless he had approval from them first, Okay, that they were going to do c y A because they you know, people like Henry Lewis and the Rockefellers and other rich people, and they owned the media, okay, and they that they would do cover for them.

That's what I think. How would happened? Now? Now, can I prove that?

No?

Okay, I can't prove it, but that's what I think after years of studied yes.

No, no, I mean you spent three decades studying this. I appreciate that you're willing to at least give an educated guess, and unfortunately aligns it aligns with my own a little little confirmation bias on my end to just you know, not along. But I think that those I think that that answers the us it's concerning. But I think it's still better to know the truth, or at least to seek the truth, than to live in ignorance.

Bak you so much.

I think that they'll appreciate it, for sure. If you could tell people where to follow and support your work. I appreciate it, man.

Yeah, the Kennysanking dot Com. That's my website. My latest book is a JFK Assassination, Choke Holes, which I was a contributor to. And thank you so much for having me on an in challenge and interview.

All right, Oh no, absolutely, I mean it's so rare I get to talk to someone who's such an expert on any topic and you knew all of it. So I was thrilled to have this opportunity. And let me give a quick tip of the cap to mister Booth once again, who put us in touch. I did not expect to have this conversation. I was actually going to have Ryan Dawson on again to discuss the JFK files. He's done a lot of research on this too, but I think I think you actually surpassed him in this area.

Pease, welcome to Liberty lockdown. Please God give block home to Liberty and come.

But yeah, it's on hold.

Where did it come from?

And where did he