Hold on, you got to stop interrupting, Okay, let him finish.
Size.
So the tragedy that's been inflicted on Gaza is orders of magnitudes greater than October seventh, even if you had the right Let's say somebody broke onto your property and killed some of your family members, and you want to
go kill this guy. If he goes back to his apartment building, and you know that there's women and children in that apartment building, and so your move is to blow up the building, what you would be charged with is murder in the first degree, cold blooded, premeditated, intentional murder. Now you could sit there and tell the judge, I didn't want to kill all those people. Why would I want to kill all of those people. I just had to kill that one guy. But that's that's not what counts.
You did it intentionally. You dropped a bomb knowing that there were women and children in that building. That is intentionally murdering innocent people. And you, if you're going to advocate for this war, so why can't you just say yes, that price is acceptable, because then we could have a real conversation about why the other side is going to look at you like a monster.
Dave Smith, what a week, brother.
So Dave goes on Rogan does back to back episodes, which is fairly rare. Apparently he got Douglas Murray to take on the debate, and he did so yesterday, and the internet is quite on fire as a consequence of it. And I'll tell you this, the only thing that you really take away from this is that there is only one group of people left that actually sides with the Douglas Murray's of the world, and that is the Ryder die Zionist crowd, the israel First crowd.
And look, that's fine.
Of course, there's going to be a constituency that agrees with anybody on any side of a debate. But if you actually watch that debate impartially, which I'm not capable of, but I know based off of the comments, there's a ton of impartial people. There's a ton of fans of Douglas Murray that are like, Jesus Christ, is Dude's insufferable? Like how could you possibly go? All right, so let me start square one. Douglas Murray opens up and I'm
not exaggerating. I am not exaggerating one iota. He spends the first forty five minutes of this debate, lecturing Joe Rogan about the guests that he's had on and the level of scrutiny that he's applied to them, and whether or not he's had enough experts, whether or not he's had enough diversity of opinion when it comes to Israel Palestine. It is amazing to witness, particularly for those that don't know.
Douglas Murray has made his name over the past decade raging against the woke, and then he proceeded to utilize almost every woke tactic you can muster, so much so that he actually chastises Dave Smith when he mentions some of the architects of not just the War on Terror, but Clean Break and the entire new Conservative foundation in the nineteen nineties that changed the geopolitical outlook for the
United States Empire. It's irrefutable, but Dave doesn't even mention the religion of the people that he's talking about.
He just says their names.
That he had seen the plans at first in nineteen ninety one, that they came from Paul Wolfowitz, that basically then they got what's funny about what the four star general said? They can continue no I'm just curious what's laughable about this.
He's like Paul Wolfowitz, Douglas worry. He goes, whoaa, whoa. Do you know what you're doing right now? Do you know what kind of fertile ground you're creating for anti Semitism to foster.
It's a very strange thing always when Wolf's his name comes up, because he was a relatively low level person to whom almost everything can be ascribed, and.
I didn't describe. Again, if this is I didn't describe every you didn't, I'm literally telling you what anyway. No, I'm telling you.
What the four star general said about him, and I wouldn't say Deputary Secretary of Defense is like a nothing position. It's pretty consequential.
Possisi and Dave's like, I'm just telling you the name of the guys. He's constantly lambasting Dave as not being an expert and others other guests that have been on Rogan not expert enough. You shouldn't be talking to these people. You ought to be having more people like me, Douglas, Mary with my Paul shackcent. Don't you understand that you're in the presence of royalty. I have the most brilliant ideas you ever did hear. Sorry, that's not as potious
he is, but you get the idea. He's chastising him for not having experts on and then Dave gets on a roll and starts rattling off the names and quotes of different politicians and intellagency heads and things of that nature that have demonstrated definitively that, yeah, America's foreign policy has been dedicated and dictated to the ends of Israeli
desires many times over the past forty years. In particular, Instead of just contending with the argument, he just Lambassa him for mentioning a Jewish last name that is woke one oh one worse, it gets way worse than that.
Have you been to the Crossing Poins?
No?
When we lost out at all?
I've never been. You've never been? Well? Am I not allowed to talk about it? Now?
I have never been to Have you ever been to Nazi Germany?
Are you allowed to have feelings about them?
You can't time travel, but you can't travel, Okay?
But so what so what's the point?
Like?
No, I find that lots of people have been there and agree with me, and lots of people have been there and agree with you.
So I don't want to spend a year.
And a half talking about about a place. You should at least do the courtesy of visiting it, all right, I just think this is a non argument. No, I think it's a non argument.
But if you have to go and touch the ground, I think you.
Have to see.
I think it's a good idea to see stuff, particularly if you spend a career talking about it something. Yes, I have a journalistic rule of trying never to talk about a country, even IMPOSSI unless I've at least been there.
So and what was near universally perceived to be a slaughter. The only thing that's being brought up is is this moment, this own by Douglas Murray as he criticizes Dave for talking about a war zone that he hasn't attended. Well, first off, let's point out the woke tactic there, that this is straight out of the woke booklet of how to defend yourself. This is lived experience argumentation that you can't possibly have any opinion on. I don't know abortion rights,
women's rights, trans rights unless you are those things. And Douglas Murray would be the first to tell you, this is not an argument. I can have opinions on all of these things, and in fact I can convey an opinion in probably a less biased way, So that's just not an argument at all.
He did so.
Poorly that his supporters are leaning on this as this anvil moment that just shattered Dave's entire defense. For the life of me, I can't understand how, but I just want to point out that the only reason you utilize a tactic like that is because you are losing, because you are being flatlined, because you don't actually know as much about this topic as you claim to. And I genuinely mean this when I say it again, no hyperbole. Dave Smith understands this conflict way better than Douglas Murray.
He's read more about it, He's sure, he's talked to more experts about it, he's talked to more people about he's listened to more things about it. It's so evident, and I implore you if you haven't watched this, despite the fact that it's absolutely excruciating, maybe fast forward through the first hour, but if you actually listen to the content of the arguments, it's not close. Dave knows everything every in and out of this better than Douglas Murray.
And the only people that can't see that are those that are so so indoctrinated, so biased towards the Israeli side, that they're just going to dismiss out of hand everything Dave has to say, And Douglas Murray intentionally gives them that opportunity to dismiss Dave's arguments by saying, you haven't even been there. Now, let me point out one real
flaw in that argument. There has been hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, arguably thousands of journalists and aid workers that have been blown up over the past eighteen months during this war. So for you to argue, oh you have if you haven't, if you haven't been there, how could you even have an argument. Well, if he goes there, he may not come back to be able to debate you, Doug, Dougie. I know it probably really pisses him off if you just him as anything other than Douglas. Oh, Douglas. But
that's the truth. This is a vicious war zone, one of the most vicious when it comes to non enemy combatants in recent history, far more dangerous than Ukraine. You can go to Ukraine as a journalist and probably get out alive. You go to Gaza, you're definitely taking your life in your hands if you're not just a reporter, not just a journalist, but also aid workers, ambulance drivers, paramedics.
There's footage of massive slaughter of these people time and time and time again, so much so that you have reports that come out of the UN and others that are saying, yeah, like these are human rights violations. This is just a total non argument. And then on top of that, do you think that Douglas Murray went to Gaza during the war and just wandered about talking to did he interview Hamas or do you think that he was probably brought in there by the IDF and shown
a very curated view of everything. And this is the broader point I want to get to. Despite describing himself as an expert, because obviously that's the insinuation of saying, well, Rogan, you should have on more experts. Why would you talk to this silly lad like Dave Smith, a good comedian. You're going to get information from him? Are you a fool? Marta Maide, Daryl Coopa, you fool? He doesn't even classify himself as a historian. Here's the thing about Douglas Murray
that people don't know. Douglas Murray is not an expert either. He opines on everything from Ai to China, to Iran to Russia Ukraine war to Israel Palestine war or What he is is a professional propagandas he travels around to these war zones. Yes, I would imagine at the at the expense of the empire that wants him to then travel around defending their empire. But that doesn't make him an expert. It makes him a propagandasm. Might I add
he's not some PhD. He's not a historian himself. He doesn't have any sort of honorifics that would give him despite the fact that you shouldn't do this, but if you're going to do it, you better at least have you know, master's, PhD something if you're gonna just be all snooty about it.
It doesn't have any of that.
He's got a bachelor's in English. I have a bachelor's too, Doug. Can I talk to you? Okay, maybe Dave doesn't have a college degree.
I do.
Now are we on the same level? Will you take my opinion?
Seriously.
I mean, it's so absurd. And then you have the entire, the entire defense brigade for Douglas Murray consists of as I was saying, all all of the woke right, what like, the actual rogue woke right, not the James Lindsay described woke right, which is anybody who's even remotely critical of Israel, which, by the way, James, we figured out I gotta point
this out. In the middle of the night last night James Lindsay posts and he says, now people are referring to Douglas Murray, this man who wrote X Y Z book as a neocon.
LMAO.
You won't believe this. But Douglas Murray, in two thousand, I think it was two thousand and five, maybe it was six, writes a book, Neo Conservatism, Why We Need It, and it is a defense of neoconservatism. He is arguing overtly that neo conservatism is the way forward, particularly because of the threat of radical Islam. He is a neocon. You don't even need to have the book to know that.
You could just listen to the debate with Dave and you would have concluded the same thing, which any impartial, observer or just fair minded person was capable of gleaning right away. Yeah, he's a neocon. But if you need proof of that because you can't think for yourself, well, here's a book written from Douglas Murray called neo Conservatism, Why We Made It. That is an affirmative statement based off of an advocacy for an ideology, which is neoconservatism,
which means that you are a neokon. It's irrefutable. Douglas Murray is a neokon. So this is how tilted the worldview of people like James Lindsay and others has gotten that they can't even despite proof to the contrary that they are wrong. He got community noted too, But people are like, what are you talking about? This guy is
a self described neocon. That doesn't matter though it doesn't matter that he's written a book on it doesn't matter that he is literally literally his entire job for the past twenty years has been to talk about and debate about, and go around in high flutint areas and defend the empire, defend the latest war like there's almost no war that he hasn't defended and been an advocate for from Israel, Palestine, Ukraine, Russia, the War Afghanistan, every major war, and it happens to
be that it's all of the major wars that the US has funded one side or the other on or fought in for that matter. And I don't think that's a coincidence. Now I can't prove this, I absolutely can't prove it. But if you look at his track record, and you look at his inability to actually make an argument with the slightest bit of pushback, you might conclude that this man is not not a historian, not an honest actor, not a debate participant, not an author, none
of these things. He's a propagandist. And I have to wonder, and I do, just being honest, I do wonder it if he's not an intelligence asset. This is the type of guy that you would want just put it like this.
I'm not saying he is, but would you like to have some high falutin, very intelligent sounding, despite not being very intelligent, type of guy that can go along and go around rather on the media circuit and just say you must understand that the Hamas will not accept anything short of the complete destruction of Israel, and therefore there is no choice. Sure, sure, yes, the death of innocence is always tragic, But forty fifty small drop in the bucket.
Have I told you what happened on October seventh, Maybe I could remind you. Maybe we could circle back to that, Maybe we could stirkle back to the beginning of this war. Now to give Dave a little bit of criticism, even though he doesn't really deserve it. The one thing that I really, I really thought he should have done, he should have taken Murray into deep waters and drowned his ass. He doesn't know fucking any like. I sensed this very
early on. This happened very similarly with the debate I did with.
That Austin guy. I won't even give him the plug.
But he didn't know the dates. He didn't know the history of Israel Palestine, he didn't know the history of the creation of Israel.
He didn't know any of it.
And I don't know this for a fact, but I suspect strongly that if Dave had had done that, he would have demonstrated very rapidly that Douglas Murray does not know this case. He does not know that this conflict or the history therein and I thought he had a real opportunity to just absolutely beat him down with that.
And the reason I strongly believe that, on top of the fact that he didn't demonstrate a real breath of knowledge when it came to the modern times, is that he was constantly, I mean so much so that he spent the first forty five minutes of a three hour debate putting Dave and Rogan on the back foot. That to me is indicative of someone who cannot win on
the merit of their argument. If you put your opponent on their back foot, put them on the defensive, well then it's going to be much harder for them to dig into your ideology and point out the flaws in it. So you spend the first full I'm not exaggerated, the full hour of it was not at all about this debate on hand. This was just about spinning and framing to try and put your opponent on the back foot. Had they actually had three hours, I know Dave would
have gotten here. So this is why I'm not being very critical of him. But that was not accidental. I think that Douglas Murray went into this debate nervous. I think that he knew that he could not win on the marriage of his argument on top of the fact that we have eighteen months of footage and the destruction and public popular support is waning. If not adamantly opposed to this conflict, certainly America funding it, we're opposed to that for sure.
So I think that.
That's that's really why he approached it this way, despite the fact that, yeah, sure it may have. It may have prevented him from demonstrating a severe lack of depth when it comes to this topic. What it did do is show how unbelievably smarmy he is and just make I think anybody that came into this thing without a firm opinion on one side or the other despise him like that was that was the main pitfall in that strategy.
Sure he didn't he wasn't totally unmasked as being a rube when it come to this when it comes to this issue, But it did demonstrate his character, his condescension, his unbelievable you know, he just it was so obvious he was looking down on both Dave and Joe like and everybody in the audience. I mean, basically what he's saying to you by by Lambad sing Rogan about his guest selection is that your audience isn't intelligent enough to listen to an opinion that they don't agree with and
not just adopt it as their own. This is the exact same argumentation that Sam Harris has been making as of late. Basically, anybody that was like anti woke warrior, not anybody, but a lot of the intellectuals, a lot of the like former lefty academics that came out strongly against the woke onslaught in twenty sixteen through twenty as soon as Israel was in a war, Suddenly none of
those lessons were extrapolated forward. They just completely circled back to all of the woke tactics, including the iron law of Wolke projection Colling by James Lindsay, which they now utilize against us by calling us the woke right, despite the fact that they are in fact explicitly that they are the woke right.
But that's woke projection.
So just as the woke left was constantly calling you a racist while they were saying that, you know, white people deserve less rights, and you like, well that seems pretty racist, Well you can't say that because you don't have power, right, or you do have power. Rather, I mean, it's just all an absurdity. And I think that what's most important about what Dave has been doing. He speaks in a common man parlance. He's able to convey his ideas in kind of an every man type of way,
and I think because of that he reaches people. It's a much more approachable way of communicating with people, contrary to Murray's posh you know, no, do do do do? I think that Dave's way of doing that and having the truth on his side and having the facts on his side and being able to be honest about everything enables him to reach people that otherwise we wouldn't be
able to reach. Like if you just had if there was two academics there, it would have been people would have came away, probably split and just agreeing with whoever they lean towards in the beginning. But I think Dave really swayed a lot of people because of Douglas Murray's attitude. While Dave's attitude was like one of genuine concern for the plight of the Palestinians and for the israelis much more kind of just a humanistic approach to this conversation.
Some people will say that's appealed to emotion, but I think when you're talking about the death of forty or fifty zer innocent people like you ought to have some emotion about this. So I didn't have a problem with that. But I think the most most important thing that Dave's done is that he has shattered time and time again, You and I and everybody else in this world has done the same.
But Dave's done it on a very high level.
Is that he has shattered the expert class narrative, the myth that there are only certain people that you must tune into to get your news, your information, your analysis, your political commentary. This is exactly the type of nonsense that he dealt with with Cuomo when he debated him last year, which I was there for. There is just there is just no There is no defense for this any longer. You either have the facts, you either have the arguments, or you don't. And time and time again,
myself and Dave and Tom and everybody else. Scott Horden Obviously we have proven with our track record that despite not being experts in some of these arenas, we are interested in the truth and therefore our analysis, our commentary in real time demonstrates a track record that is far more accurate than the experts.
That's a fact. And Dave said it during the debate.
He said, sure, I'm not an expert, but I will put my fucking track record against any of the experts during the lockdown era, and you tell me who was closer to the truth, and it's not close. All of us were far closer to the truth than the experts. So I think that's the most important thing is that Dave is basically a populous god king. At this point,
he is arguing on behalf of the little guy. He's arguing on behalf of the independent minded, non tribal just like, do you want to know the truth or don't You don't give me your honorifics, don't give me your degrees, don't give me the books that you've read, don't give me where you've traveled to give me a fucking argument, or get the hell out of here. And in that environment, yeah, even a lowly, non college educated comedian like Dave Smith can dunk on and embarrass one of the most highly
touted academics in the past twenty years. That's the new world we live in. The expert classes has basically created their own grave and Coffin and Dave Smith just slowly driving.
Nails one and a half or the other.
Cuomo bang, Douglas Murray bang, Fauci bang. That's what we're doing. That's that's our job. It's not because we hate these people as individuals, but because they're deceptive, Like it's the I don't even look at them as individuals. I look at them as like an amalgamation of propagandistic actors that deceive the public. And we're the whole reason that Dave and I have any audience, any of us have any audience, is because we just seek out the truth and we
try and tell our audiences the truth. What a novel concept, But that's how rare it had been, that's how unheard of this was forever, and now it's not because we have this kind of democratization of news conveyance through the Internet and social media, and now despite whether or not you get a gig at CNN or Fox News, it's not really relevant. It's going to come down to did you get it right. If you didn't, you lose audience. You get it right, your audience grows. That's the free market.
Motherfuckers learn how to play in it.
Do you think you've had enough people on who are supportive by the war?
I don't know that word enough.
If that's a good word.
Let's say, let's say enough people who are on the side of Isabel instead of wild critics.
Well, I've had a few. I mean, I believe God said is on the side of Israel, for sure. Jordan is on the side of Israel. Yeah, Mike Baker hughes, Yeah, I hold.
Them and did it for twenty minutes. It wasn't why he was here.
No, I mean, none of them and none of them is why they're here. You know, it's a good question.
Do you think you've tilted one way?
Me personally? No, no, no, just with the guests, the guests, Yeah, probably more tilted towards the idea that perhaps the way they've done it is barbaric.
But why do you think that is just out of interesting, just because it's interesting in your selection to guess.
Because you're like the world's number one podcast.
Your lamentations mean nothing, The cries of your women mean nothing. Bring your people before me. Uh, Look, it's over for y'all it's over. If you're the expert class, you should have no problem dismantling, dismantling someone like Dave Smith, because he's such a rube, he's such an every man, he doesn't know anything, he's never even been to Gaza. Well, then why did you get trounced, Douglas, Why did you get flatlined in front of fucking fifteen or twenty million people?
Because you're a fraud and the entire expert class is a fraud, and they have been demonstrated to be a fraud empirically over the past five years, much longer than that, but it's become glaringly obvious for anyone with eyes to see and ears to hear that you are fraudulent actors, and we're not playing your game anymore. You don't get to dictate who the guest list for Joe Rogan or the largest show on Earth will be. You don't get
to say because there are no gatekeepers anymore. You will get known based off of your merits, and if you get well known enough, you might get invited on Joe Rogan, and if you get really well known, you might get invited on there, and they get your fucking ass kicked in front of the entire world by a stand up comic Eat shit, Douglas Murray. Welcome to Liberty lockdown, ple's stand your foc to liberty ain't come, but yeah it's on hold. Where did it come from and where did it go