Republicans have to talk about it a lot.
And does that mean the H one B visa thing will not be a big priority for your administration, Because if you want to raise wages for American workers, you can't flood the country with tens of thousands or hundreds.
Of And we also do have to bring in talent when.
We got your talent and fail, you don't.
We don't have talent. No, you don't know, you don't. Six words that may have just ended the magatrain. Donald Trump, a guy who campaigned repeatedly on the opposite, is now saying Nope, we cannot do it without immigration. Don't take my word for it. Here's Donald Trump on the campaign trail many many moons ago, when he still actually believed in putting America first.
Well, first of all, I think, and I know the H one be very well, and it's something that I frankly use and I shouldn't be allowed to use. We shouldn't have it. Very very bad for workers. And second of all, I think it's very important to say, well, I'm a businessman and I have to do what I have to do, and it's sitting there waiting for you. But it's very bad it's very bad for business in terms of it's very bad for our workers, and it's unfair for our workers, and we should end it.
So campaign Donald Trump h one b's are a scam and they're basically being taken advantage of by corporations to try and undercut the wages of the domestic population. And then President Donald Trump in twenty twenty five saying, we don't have talented people here that can do these jobs. You cannot possibly take an American kid and train him on how to make batteries the way the South Koreans do.
You know, No, you don't.
We don't have talent people now you don't have you don't have certain talents, and you have to people have to learn. You can't take people off an unemployment like an unemployment line and say I'm going to put you into a factory who we're going to make missiles or I'm going.
To put do we ever do it before?
Well, Lemon and I I'll give you an example. In Georgia they raided because they wanted illegal immigrants. They had people from from South Korea that made batteries all their lives. You know, making batteries are very complicated It's not an easy thing and very dangerous, a lot of explosions, a lot of problems. They had like five or six hundred people early stages to make batteries and to teach people how to do it. Well, they wanted them to get out of the country. You're going to need that lure.
I mean, I know you and I disagree on this. You can't just say, take people off an unemployment line who haven't worked in five years and they're going to start making their missiles.
It doesn't work that well.
All right, Well, aside from the fact that that's just patently false, and aside from the fact that like the university system in America, despite all of its flaws, actually does produce kids that are capable of doing a lot of things. Even if you just assume for a second that the university system does not do those things, it does not prepare anybody to do anything of value, which oftentimes that is true. Well, then how about you actually take a holistic approach to this. How about you actually
do something to help these kids. How about you acknowledge the fact that the printing and borrowing and spending that you did in your first term ultimately destroyed the dollar and made it extraordinarily challenging for these kids to get ahead. How about you acknowledged the fact that the lockdown era and the forced social distancing and the masking for kids while they were in high school, in the most important formative years of their life or younger for that matter,
they were essentially tormented by some of your policies. How about you acknowledged that. How about you acknowledge the fact that the DEI environment completely destroyed the education system and made it so that professors were ultimately just demeaning all of the men in their class or all of the boys,
i should say, and just breaking their spirits. And now you expect them to just bounce back after that in the me too environment and cancel culture and then being put through lockdowns and then put through the most progressive garbage education system you can imagine, And then you go, they can't build batteries. Okay, whose fault is that? Though? Look, I'm not saying that the state is required to make
us capable of doing anything. Quite the contrary. I'm arguing, quite specifically the inverse of that, that the state has hindered the development of these children. And now instead of acknowledging the damage done by not just Donald Trump but every politician in our lifetimes. Instead, he goes the opposite direction, and he says, well, they're useless. They can't actually accomplish any of these things, So we're going to replace them with immigrants, vih one b's or otherwise. In what world
is that America first? And what world is that making America great again? It comes across much more obviously to be an appealed to your donors, to the special interests
that clearly run your White House and run you. And I think that's what your base is reflecting on and realizing and coming to terms with, is that you're a fraud, that what brought you to power is not what keeps you in power, That the people that keep you in power don't want to focus on actually remedying any of the issues that have plagued young people in this country, but instead to replace them entirely, which is in effect, very little difference from what the Joe Biden or Kamala
Harris presidency would have delivered for them. So when you see your poll numbers taking, just remember it's not us that abandon you, it's you that abandon us.
The Trump administration seems to have been hiding these emails. They're not good, Okay, they are completely indefensible. But I already told you I was done with MAGA at the moment he looked us in the face and he said, what files right, what are we still talking about Jeffrey Epstein. Pam Bondi said it was a Democrat hoax. No, I think the entire nation has been hoaxed by Republicans and Democrats, and there are pervert elites that sit at the top.
And you can point to many different dates throughout the past couple months that would probably be good indications that the Trump train was totally off the rails. For me, the most obvious date are the inflat auction. Point that really jumps to mine was July eighth, when this happened and.
Released yesterday, and Jeffrey Epstein left some lingering mysteries of One of the biggest ones is whether he ever worked for an American or foreign intelligence agency. The former Leader secretary who was Miami US attorney Alex Costa, allegedly said that he did work for an intelligence agency. So could you resolve whether or not he did, and also could you see why there was a minute missing from the jailhouse team on the names.
Yeah, I.
Are you still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. You're asking we have Texas, we have this, we have all of the things right, and are people still talking about this guy? This creep? That is unbelievable? Do you want to waste the time? And do you feel like answering?
I don't mind answering.
I mean, I can't believe you're asking a question on at Epstein at a time like this where we're having some of the greatest success.
Are we still talking about Epstein still? I mean, you can answer the question if you want, but like, are we really can't? Haven't we moved on that creep? No, actually we haven't moved on. And particularly given that your entire cabinet is filled with people that they promised disclosures and justice in that arena, we're not going to move on, including yourself. So I don't even know why that's so beyond the pale.
The evidence we have in our files clearly indicates that it was in fact the suicide.
We released the video showing definitively the video was not conclusive at Jeffrey Epstein's story is a big deal. Please do not let that story go.
Keep your eye on this.
Jeffrey Epstein isn't with us anymore, and nobody seems to want to talk about it.
But that was kind of the moment where I started to realize that there's something deeply, deeply wrong here. Now, I'm not going to pretend as if I was the first person to realize that. A lot of people, including Nick flant Is, identified this before Trump was elected president for a second time, and I stand corrected. They were right. They got it right. Donald Trump was in fact compromised, and I think he was compromised by his donors. Elon
Musk also got it right. It looks like to me when he started to point out that the Epstein files are being buried because of Donald Trump's relationship to him. Now, I've never claimed and I don't know for a fact as to whether or not Trump did anything illegal in the Epstein network operation thing. But what I do know is that thanks to drop site News over the past few weeks, they've been doing incredible work thanks to this email leak of I think it was a whu Barock's
emails that got put online. No other corporate journalist is doing this deep diving, of course, because they are all essentially forbidden from doing so, I guess. But drop site News has been all over this, and God bless them for it. What they've proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt in my mind, is that Jeffrey Epstein was in fact an Israeli asset. And this is evidenced by the fact that he had intelligent agents that were staying at
his property in Manhattan repeatedly. These are Israeli intelligence agents. I also had the former Prime Minister of Israel who was in constant communication with Jeffrey Epstein and stayed with him three dozen times over a few year period, which is more often than I see my own family. I find that utterly bizarre. So yeah, to believe that he wasn't at least an asset of israel I think is
totally ridiculous. So then you have to connect some dots, and this is where it gets uncomfortable for those that are tenfoil averse. But the obvious dots to connect is that Donald Trump is funded to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars by pro Israel donors. Also those same donors are responsible for the primary campaign against Thomas Massey.
Why would they be so opposed to Thomas Massey. Well, Thomas Massey is the one who's responsible today for having passed the bill that is essentially going to force a vote as to whether or not to release the Epstein files. So why is it that these pro Israel donors are so deeply concerned about the disclosures of the Epstein files.
Could it be that, in fact, Jeffrey Epstein was an Israeli asset, that he was in fact building compromont files against the rich and powerful, both in politics and corporate America. I would argue that the preponderance of evidence says yes, that's exactly what his role was. Not to say that he didn't have other roles. He was also a major financial wheeler and dealer in the gray and black market.
I think he did that on behalf of multiple state intelligence agencies, including Israel as well as our own, probably the UK am I six and also arguably the French. So he's a jack of all trades. So he was serving a lot of purposes. But why is Donald Trump, who is being smeared as having participated in this underage sex trafficking operation. Why would he not want full disclosure if,
particularly if he's innocent. Well, the obvious answer would be that his donors want those disclosures not to be made, and as a consequence, Donald Trump is unwilling to do what's right, to do what he promised to do, which is to be transparent. So I think that's the obvious dot connection there is that, in fact, this intelligence operation is being buried by the sitting president of the United
States because of his donors. It could be argued that there's additional pressure being levied against him, be that violent, financial or otherwise. I can't say definitively why. All I know is that Donald Trump is lying. Donald Trump is covering up Cash Betel and Dan Bongino are doing the same, despite promises to the contrary when they were trying to get in positions of power. Now that they sit in those positions of power, they say, there's no there there?
Why is there no there there? Dan Cash? And if there is no there there, why is it not your job to present me the there? Could you give me the there? I guess not. So my answer for all of this at this junction, because I think It's the most logical conclusion to come to is that the entire Trump administration is essentially under the thumb of a foreign government or foreign intelligence agency. And tragically that has resulted in a tremendous amount of injustice to the American people.
And then you wonder why Tucker Carlson has flipped against Israel.
You want people to follow you. You want to sell your ideas to them. You want to convince them of what you're saying is true. Show some love for them, demonstrate that you love that you care about them. Why are we doing this because we think it's better for you? Shapiro and all of these guys, they don't make an effort to do that because they.
Don't feel that way at all. Shut up, Cattle, you're a Nazi.
Give us the money for our preferred little country, or else we're going to denounce you.
Man.
Those attitudes are incompatible with leadership. I really care so much about this thing, and you better care about it too, Russ. I'm going to attack you in deep platform you.
It doesn't work.
It's illegitimate, actually, and if you keep it up, you're flirting with, you know, real backlash, like a real one, not Nick fuints like a real one, so cool it. Listen to other people, don't treat them like cattle, treat them like human beings.
Or you wonder why Nick Flintes has grown in prominence, Well, it's because we have eyes and we have ears, and we pay attention, and we know that something is awry, something is wrong here.
What we want is for someone to unashamedly and single mindedly advocate for Americans and Americans only. We want someone to say, you know, the only thing I care about is helping Americans. Only people I care about in the world are Americans. And we don't want to just hear that, but we want to see the action taken as well. You know, I've seen some people on social media say, hey, it's America first, but not America only.
I disagree. I think it is America only. Something is totally counter to what our expectations were and to what your promises were, and you were failing egregiously. Just yesterday. He also promised that he would be bringing in Chinese students to fill our university systems on an annual basis. That is no small figure.
Folks are not thrilled about this idea of hundreds of thousands of foreign students in the United States. We have about three hundred and fifty thousand Chinese. One point during COVID you were going to you know, we'll push to get them out, but that was pulled back. You've said as many as six hundred thousand Chinese students could come
to the United States. Why, sir, is that a pro maga position when so many American kids want to go to school and there are places not for them, and these universities are getting rich off Chinese money.
Sure, never said about China, but we do have a lot of people coming in from China. We always have China and other countries. We also have a massive system of colleges and universities. And if we were to cut that in half, which perhaps make some people happy, you would have half the colleges in the United States school out of business. Well, I think that's a big deal.
Why would he do that, Well, because he says otherwise the collegiate system in America would collapse, to which I say, good. Since when are we in the business of defending academia. Academia which has destroyed the minds of young people across this country for decades? Now, why would we possibly be doing so, why would we possibly be doing anything to
keep them afloat much less? If China is our enemy, our top enemy according to Trump and many other people that talk about China as if that's a fact, why would we be bringing in over half a million of their kids every year to study at our universities? And moreover, how is it making America great again to essentially replace the American domestic population that wants to go to those universities but no longer can because those seats are being
filled by foreigners. Here's another uncomfortable dot to connect. But many people are now theorizing that perhaps the six hundred thousand Chinese students being allowed into our country, perhaps that was the carrit that was dangled or the trade that was made in order to get China to allow for the byte dance or TikTok sale to the Israeli side. But regardless, does that possibly mean that we are putting America first? I don't see how you can make that argument.
Certainly not. You're not putting American students first, that's for sure. Okay, Well, then how about the J six justice, seeing as you had a couple hundred plain closed police officers that were
in the crowd on J six. How about the fact that we now have pretty damn good evidence through that data analysis from the Blaze that it looks as if the FBI pulled Kyle Saraffin and his surveillance team off of the J five pipe bomber the guy who or gal actually who was what it appears to be framing the Jay sixers as terrorists, assuming that they did not get catalyzed into rioting and storming the capitol, which they did, so I guess you didn't have to blow up that bomb.
So aside from the pardons for the Jay sixers, we're not really getting justice when it comes to the entrapment scheme that they fell victim to. Shouldn't people be put in prison for doing that? I would say definitely. How about there being peace in Ukraine? Nope, not that either. Another campaign promised that has fallen flat got no obscene disclosures.
You got six one hundred thousand Chinese students maximum h one b's And I guess we can now take out a fifty year mortgage to buy a starter home for three quarters of a million dollars, assuming I don't get deported for anti Semitism. So yeah, if you rattle off this entire list and then you come to the conclusion that we're abandoning Donald Trump, I don't think you remember at all what he campaigned on. He campaigned in opposition
to everything I just detailed. So when I say that MAGA is not divided, MAGA is dead, I don't think I'm overstating it. In fact, one might argue I'm late to the game, that it fell apart many months ago. And that's sad, because I thought that the coalition that Donald Trump put together was one of the most remarkable things I have ever seen in my life of covering politics. To have the entire MAGA alliance, which was obviously the America First camp, the non interventionist but also more nativistic
nationalistic side of the conservative wing. You get the make America Healthy Again, the RFK juniors, the people that realize that our food supply is largely toxic and our diets are atrocious, and pharma is a huge problem and in fact not a solution in many regards. That was an incredible part of the alliance. Then you bring in the Libertarians and a non inventionist and the actual truly America first, people like myself, and we're like, Okay, this is an
interesting alliance. This is actually building to something. You got Vivik Ramaswami, who's a young upstart who's got some impressive rhetoric and seems that he may be on our side of the fence too, and then you bring in a whole bunch of other people, Elon Musk and Tulci Gabbard, and it starts to look like, Wow, this is a dream team. This is Brett weinst the world were actually putting together avengers of sorts to try and save the country.
And it felt good and there was hope for a time. Genuinely, I felt like there was a chance. I wasn't overly optimistic, but it did seem given the atrocious political establishment that existed prior, this seemed like a huge improvement and an opportunity worth taking. Essentially, Donald Trump gets inaugurated and suddenly the bait and switch becomes more and more obvious. And it's been ten months now and essentially he's delivered on nothing aside from securing the border. So I'll give him
credit for that. I was expecting a bit more, just a tad bit more. And apparently that makes me a pannikin and that makes me a hater and whatever. I'm not really interested in the smears. I don't really care. We don't have time. We don't have time to allow for our political establishment, the political elites, to lie to us any longer. We cannot be bait and switched any more.
We cannot allow for the domestic population to continue to be replaced, which is clearly the plan underneath the Trump administration, just as it was under former administrations. It's egregious, it's deceptive, it's disgusting, and if you want to try and take the wind out of the sales of one Nick Fuentes, you're going to have to stop. You're going to have to stop doing these things. And you're not. You're going
full speed ahead. In fact, you're saying repeatedly that you do not need the support of anybody who wants justice when it comes to the Epstein files. Well, then when I don't offer you my support anymore, don't get mad. You told me not to, I said, Okay. Simultaneously, we have the FBI lying repeatedly when it comes to the Charlie Kirk case and getting tons of things wrong, including in the very first day or two where they said that they had the guy under in custody and then
immediately backpedaled and said, no, we don't. And now they say that they do, and they also say that he worked alone, and they say that if you're digging at all, that you're ultimately an anarchist in a danger to the country. While simultaneously, Cash Ptel, the head of the FBI's girlfriend, is suing my buddy Elijah Shaeffer and others for apparently claiming that she's some sort of honeypot, which I have never made that claim and I have no reason to believe it. I have no idea. I hope that you
and Cash have a great life together. I just really wish that Cash Bettel would do his fucking job. That would be great. So under the Biden administration you got Alex Jones being hit with billion dollar fines, and then under the Trump administration you got Elijah Shaeffer and Sam Parker getting hit with five million dollar lawsuits. All right, I guess things are kind of not changing very much. But it's not all negative news. There's some really good things.
For instance, Donald Trump sent a letter yesterday to the President of Israel, mister Herzog to ask or implore him to pardon bb Net and Yahoo. So at least we got that on our side. That was a bucket list item, that was a box to be checked. When Donald Trump was campaigning, right that he would try and get baby that now who pardoned? Because that makes America great again.
But probably more than anything, the reason that Donald Trump was so beloved is that it became more and more apparent to all of us that the political elite literally hated us. They thought that we were just garbage. From Hillary Clinton calling us a basket of deplorables and just the description of us being flyover country and whatever. It was just obvious that the liberal elites in particular really
had a deep hatred for the American people. So you got Donald Trump, now, who's obviously the remedy to that. And then when asked, don't we have plenty of talented people to get these jobs done, and Donald Trump responds very bluntly, no, you don't, No, you don't. Add to this the fact that the unemployment rate for recent college graduates is now higher today than it was in two thousand and eight and nine, at the height of the
great recession. These kids are being replaced not just by immigrants, which obviously the immigrant flood has declined this year, thank goodness, but also by artificial intelligence. This is a tsunami headed our way. This is going to be a catastrophe of the highest order, and nobody is preparing for it. Nobody is being honest about it. Nobody is giving these kids guidance on how they might ride the wave of the tsunami,
if anything, so that they don't drown underneath it. It's a huge, huge problem, and the only people speaking to their concerns are Thomas Massey, MTG. Tucker Carlson. These are the people that actually seem to understand the problems that the young people are facing, and as long as you ignore them, you're going to radicalize them further. We do have plenty of talented people in this country. All of the damage done to these kids can and must be undone.
We must remedy what ails them. These are our countrymen, these are our children. These are the people that we should put as a priority. If America first means anything, it must mean that, and if you cannot deliver on that, then you should resign or you should be impeached, and I might add that in the mid terms coming up just a year from now, you're going to get shll Act. You're going to lose the House, and as soon as that next Congress is admitted, you're going to be impeached
most likely. And when you are, I want to be very clear, I and millions of other Americans who defended you during the nonsensical Russian collusion hoax and that entire impeachment charade will not be coming to your defense. You have opted to go with your donors over your voters, and we're going to find out if the donors can keep you safe when the establishment comes for you once again,
which they inevitably will. The American people that are paying attention at least are not going to have your back because you didn't have hours. And that's really as simple as it gets. So seeing as you've decided to bait and switch us and condescend to us and ultimately try and replace us, don't be surprised when you get replaced yourself.
It's going to happen. Your presidential term will come to an end inevitably, and you're not going to be able to get anything accomplished because the Democrats are going to control the House, probably the Senate, and your legacy will have gone up in smoke. And it's all your fault because all you had to do was deliver on what you promised. You didn't have to pull off miracles. You
just had to be courageous. You didn't have to really do anything hyper dangerous other than do what you said, and you would have had the American people backing you to the end of the earth. You already have such a tremendous fan base, some truly right or die beautiful people that want nothing more than this country to be made great again, and that is why they got behind you, and then you decided to step on them. And that's sad and more than that, it's infuriating, and it just
demonstrates that you don't have the courage. And I don't know that it's necessarily your honest feelings. It's a distinct possibility that you have been compromised, that you're being threatened financially or physically, I don't know which, or maybe there's other avenues of attack that I'm not considering. Maybe there's threats against your family. There's lots of angles that could justify why you're being such an unbelievable bitch and liar
right now. But it doesn't change the fact that you're being a bitch and a liar right now, and therefore, as a truth teller, I have no choice but to call you out for it. Donald Trump, you are failing. You are failing as a president in your second term. I had such high hopes because you were impeached over garbage, because the media tried to destroy you, because the FBI tried to destroy you, because the entire political establishment tried
to destroy you. I had to believe that there was a chance, just a small fraction of a chance, that you were the real deal, that you were actually interested in putting Americans first and essentially ending the empire. You're not that guy. You don't have the courage to do so. And JD. Vance, your vice president, doesn't have the courage to say that you're failing, so he's also not the solution. We're going to have to find somebody else to me.
The obvious options are Thomas Massey and MTG. And I know that sounds crazy, but that's the presidential ticket that I'll be pushing for, and I hope that you'll support me in that, because I think that's our only hope at this junction, aside from looking after our families trying to remedy what the state can't, and really looking out for our communities, our kids, trying to get them in front of this AI wave. Believe me when I tell you it's already upon us, and it's going to grow exponentially.
So this is urgent times, and political solutions are looking increasingly fleeting, unfortunately. So it's up to us now, It's up to this rag tag group of misfits on the internet that are simultaneously trying to save the country as well as solve the Charlie Kirk murder. We got a lot on our plate, but we also have no choice but to prevail. So prevail we shall. You cannot break our spirits. Even when you aly to us, Donnie, We're still gonna keep forging ahead. We have no other choice.
All right, Let's get into this brief debate I had with my good friend, the economist Bob Murphy. He was being very polite and chastising me slightly for aligning my messaging with one Nick Fuentes. I stand by how I have been messaging that and making the distinctions between the two of us known while also echoing the sentiments that I think he has completely one hundred percent correct, and
I will continue to do so. But because Bob put together an our compilation essentially explaining his hypothesis as to why I should not be doing so essentially that it makes it very hard for people to distinguish between the identitarian in America First movement versus the non interventionist, libertarian individualist America First Movement. I am not so much interested in, you know, making that the focus of how I talk about these things. I think that we don't have the
numbers for purity spiraling games. We have very little time, and we need people to actually come together to work on these things. So I will continue to do so even when we have areas of disagreement. I'm going if you if you want to put America first, you're an ally. That's how I view it. It's very simple. You might want to push for socialism, we'll debate that after we end the empire and focus on Americans. Okay, how about that? So enjoy this very friendly debate that I had with
Bob Murphy. If you want to support to work at liberty lockpot on X. Subscribe there. I'll follow you back or at libertylockdown dot locals dot com, or go over to my pillow dot com and use promo code lockdown to get yourself some cozy and be swell like Mike Lindell my pillow dot com promo code lockdown. Please do with the like button comment, share it around and I will catch you soon the next one. I am joined today by the only libertarian with more hair than me.
Just kidding. You took a dig at my baldness, so I got a fire back at your illustrious locks. We got Bob Murphy on today. He put out a very thoughtful video last night that I took the time to watch, and I thought it was a fair criticism. I obviously have some disagreements, given that I am the one that's basically the messaging subject of the topic at hand, but I wanted to give you a couple of minutes just to explain your position, and I'll give you my two cents.
Okay, sure, and I appreciate you having me on here.
And to clarify folks, I said that Clint is a tough guy because he has you know, he went completely bald so that was the point that I wasn't taking a dig. He can handle this criticism for sure. And also, I should say is a disclaimer. I only picked your tweets, Clint, or your messaging just so people would have something specific in mine, right, So I wasn't just speaking in.
Generalizing, Bob, what are you talking about? Give us something.
So so my concern with our sides, and I say that without irony, like I really do consider like you and Dave Smith and you know, Glenn Greenwell on this issue, we're all, you know, on the same side of this stuff. My concern is the way that we respond to Ben Shapiro and like Mark Levin, like they're smear tactics that I'm concerned that we're giving them almost too much credit or we're giving them an unnecessary way that they can
appeal to the people they're trying to reach. And so specifically, I think that I was trying to think of the best way I can get this across to your audience
very succinctly. So think back to when like Darryl Cooper was on Tucker's show, right, and he had that now infamous thing where he said, gee, I think the case that yeah, that Winsters with the Chief Villion and so of course everyone's running around, oh my gosh, he's a Holocaust and Iron he loves Hitler and Da da da and so, and I went out, I did an entire episode of my show going through and showing no, you're misunderstand that's not what he was saying. And then back,
you know, before my time. But when Pat you can and came out with his book on the Unnecessary War again anti semi you love nazis da da da in the anti war crowd, No, that's.
Not what he was saying that.
So my concern is when Tucker has you know, Nick Fuentes on and then Ben Shapiro and those guys run around and.
Say, oh, he's talking to an anti Semi.
That kid's a neo Nazi, he's a fascist, but he doesn't believe in the Holocaust. That if we say the exact same thing for him and said, what are you talking about? Come on, guys, the real issue is our support for Israel.
That might you know, normal.
People who look at those clips might say, no, that sounds like he really is.
Okay, again, he could be putting on an act. It's trolling. I get it.
But I'm just saying tactically, I think it would be better if instead just so people say okay, we'll Bob give us something better, instead of saying it that way, to just say, look, there are lots of people who clearly were not anti Semitic and not even saying anything in the same zip code as that, and you guys use the same smear tactics, and so this is your go to card. And you know what, if you don't want you know, anti semi in this space, then maybe
you should stop scaring way respectable people. So it's your own behavior that causes this vacuum. So only someone like a Nick fuent Is who has nothing to lose can come in and talk about these issues. So don't be surprised you kind of created this. Yeah, so it's sort of a subtle difference, but I think, you know, an important one.
And moreover, if it wasn't for their bad behavior and smearing and labeling a bunch of non anti Semites anti Semites, Nick Fuintes probably doesn't exist, you know, like that's his origin stories. That's what Ben Shapiro did because he was questioning, you know, our relationship with Israel andies like anybody that questions the Jewish person as to having dual loyalty as a you know, classic anti Semite, and Nick Fuentt is is like what you know, and he's seventeen years old
at the time. You know, I, as I said, I watched your entire breakdown, and I am sincere when I say I thought it was very thoughtful. I actually have a clip that I want to play for you, because this gives kind of the counter argument to the ideas.
Not me denying the Holocaust, is it.
No, that would be hilarious, but no, it's not that. Yeah. So a couple days ago, or maybe it was a week ago, I don't know how long, there was this moment with Dave Portnoy, who is Barstool Sports guy, and this is what happened. Hey, everybody, all right, So there's this kid who says f the j's and throws coins at Dave Portnoy. Obviously an egregious thing to do, not particularly violent, but still, you know, very very shitty and
not a good sign for our culture. I will agree with that, But I want you to hear what Nick Flint has had to say about this.
Okay, this kind of thing is really a problem. And before anybody says I got the call or you know, somebody put me up to this, we do have to be very careful here, because this is nothing other than what you could accurately describe as j verbal abuse. Going up to somebody and saying fuck that person in public and saying fuck you, That actually doesn't change anything. It's rude, it is disorderly. This is not how we're supposed to behave. I don't think that we can hold a society together
if this is what it's going to turn into. And I don't think that's any type of civilized way to live that people should be getting a screened at or heckled or punched or beat up. I do actually believe in civility, and I think that's what America is about. I think that's Christian and so I would caution everybody because, don't get me wrong, I don't like Dave Portnoy. I think he's a poser. I think he's an asshole. I
think he's a trader. But if I saw him in the street, I wouldn't run up on him and yell fuck you. Honestly, I wouldn't confront him at all. And if I did I would be polite. I don't think that's the right thing to do. I don't think that's the right way to conduct ourselves, and I can't approve of it.
I know you're big into non violence, as am I, and I think that the obvious claim that he's making there is one that is relatively Christian ethos, that you don't want to be aggressing on your fellow man, and you don't want to be verbally assaulting or physically assaulting them. And I just wanted to contend with the argument that many people have made because of the clip that you did play on your show, which is when he was I think he was eighteen years old at the time
where he's doing the whole oven cookie thing. He's just not that guy, you know, Like there is additional nuance to him. That doesn't mean that he's not a white nationalist. I think it's fair to describe him that way, but I do think that in terms of calling him a Nazi someone who's actually interested in vicious political violence and Paul Groms or whatever, I just don't think that's accurate.
And I think that the nuance on this actually does matter because he not Because I'm trying to get people to support him, but because he has a tremendous amount of support, like that's just the truth. He's got millions of people, young men in particular, that really you know, look up to him at this point, and that ideology is not going away. So my contention is that having discussions with those same audience members or with Nick himself
is to our benefit. And I think that the energy that his movement brings, you know, this kind of infusing a fight back into young men in this country is a good thing. It's a healthy thing, and it's something that we need, and it's something that libertarians actually lack to a large extent. So I see it as in many ways a positive sign, and I know a lot of libertarians, you know, view it as purely a negative.
So I don't know. I guess I just have a very nuanced take on this entire Kroyper movement, and I'm just curious what your thoughts are After I ranted.
Sure, okay, well thanks for that.
I guess I would ask your viewers because I've encountered some fans of Nick, and they come with as much understanding and grace as you're giving Nick and his statements over the years. Please also don't assume I'm saying something I'm not. And so to be clear, I had no problem with Dave or Glenn Greenwald or Tucker having Nick on their show. And I don't even have a problem that they didn't say, hey, you're a naughty boy, like I sais. That would be pointless. What would be the
point of doing that. So now that again I had a very mild I guess I put it this way. It's not a coincidence that the New York Times picked the most badass photo of Nick Fuente as they could find, like.
James Dean, and saying the new leader of the right, like.
The left, totally wants it to be a conventional wisdom. Now that Nick went has just took over, he's the idea. I'm saying it's worth thinking through. Now that doesn't mean just because they say something, therefore we shouldn't say it. But I'm saying, think through why they want to say that, and that's in their interest in terms of the next
election or to frame it. So that's why I just think we should be a little bit cautious and not just give it to him on a silver platter and say, oh, yeah, we're basically Nick fun days.
Now.
Well, see, this is the other point of contention between you and I is that you know, you took the screenshot of James Lindsay posting my video that opens with a segment from Nick Fuentes, and because it was a screenshot that you showed, it shows you know I James Lindsay says, I tried to warn you about these people, and he's talking about me, and he's talking about the
anti war right. But if you're actually on Twitter and you see that post, the video is playing underneath it and what's being said, as you said, there's really nothing to disagree with. It's like a pure America First message. So my point is this, regardless of what we do, James Lindsay has been calling us the woke right and basically accusing us of this for years, despite the fact that it was never true and I was not in any way defending Nick Fuentes years ago. So my point is, like,
this is what they do. Ron Paul the sweetest man on the planet. He wants to grab the neck of a jew according to Ben Shapiro, and then you got you know, Pap Buchanan and so many others that have been smeared with this when it's just obviously not true. So I'll just straight with you, I'm not interested in
playing their game. I'm not interested in trying to walk on eggshells to make sure that they don't misattribute my beliefs to Nick fluentt Is in his audience, I'm like, I'm going to just speak my mind, say what I actually believe, and kind of ride this wave and see where it ends up. But I'm not going to change my behavior to try and prevent bad actors from acting badly, because they're going to do that regardless. They have already decided.
I mean, the Misis Caucus and myself were already written up by the SPLC years ago, and it's like we're just genuine libertarians, like non interventionist, anti war people, and we're always labeled as being you know, hateful bigots and races.
I actually give credit to the great Bob Murphy who talked about this on his podcast this week. What's happened here is especially on the right, but everywhere all across the political spectrum. Anyone who has the slightest problem with Zionism or with Zionist power and influence in the United States is a media condemned as a Nazi and an anti semi. And I am saying this upfront quite honestly. I have never watched Nick's show, Nick Fointest's show from
beginning to end. I've seen a few clips. I think it's pretty clear that he's essentially the result of what you could have bet on anyway, that if you keep saying that everyone who disagrees with Zionism is a Nazi who hates Jews, you're gonna have a young man say, fine, that doesn't hurt me, and then go ahead and own that and then beat it to beat that horse to death, which is what he's done, right, is stake that out.
And I saw him saying the other day a clip of him, I think in context of him saying, you.
Say, hitler, hitler, hitler, hitler, hitler, every.
Time anyone says anything about any of these issues, and then he says, but that word no longer has any power here. That was a long time ago. It has nothing to do with what's going on with us, and not like that. So what's happened is Zionism, which has a total kind of stranglehold and lock on the center of American politics has marginalized anti Zionism to the fringes where now legitimate anti Semites can claim to own it.
I just think it's really funny. You're trying to have it both ways. Like on the one hand, you're saying anti Zionism is the most the most censored view in America and then acknowledge that entire Democratic Party is anti Zionist. You're saying that the person who criticizes Israel is labeled an anti Zionists. And then you come out here and defend an actual anti Semite, Nick Flints. And this is the problem, Pierce, is that this is exactly how it goes.
They want to what did you're out here saying that because you're out here saying that because you know that every person who is.
Of Zionism, but you see, you're a strong man.
That's what he is.
He said that any person who is at all critical of Zionism becomes labeled an anti Semite, and therefore Nick Flentis has a seat at the table who is an act I.
Didn't say that you have to keep making things.
I didn't say that.
I say people, and I just it doesn't work on me. Anymore. Does that make sense?
It does? Can I say one more thing on that?
Of course?
Yeah, So I totally get everything you're saying. I just want to be clear.
I'm not saying, hey, guys, you know, I think James Lindsay had a point there, and you try to convince that I'm talking about like puting you this way.
I have people I.
Follow and they follow me on Twitter who like James Lindsay and they get mad at Dave or whatever, and like they're cool on other stuff and they like me, and so I was initially surprised, like, how come everone just doesn't think like me and his friends with all my But I'm saying, so stuff like this, if all you really know about it is wait, what's going on?
And so here's the clincher.
If it's it's not anything coming out of your mouth and and you know anything that Michael Heiss ever said, or that I ever said, or certainly run you know over the years and people calling us Holocaust and ires and neo Nazi that it's ludicrous. But I'm saying now on this one though, if Ben Shapiro plays a bunch of clips and the response from our team is, oh, come on, give me a break, guys, he's just screwing around when those clips are way more intense than anything
are coming out of your or my mouth. So that's my modest point is I think just we're giving that to them when we don't need to.
So yeah, that's it. Yeah. Well, you know, as I said ten minutes ago or whatever, I think it's fair to describe Nick flint as as a white nationalists and I'm not that, so I understand there is a distinction that needs to be made. But I also think it's unfair to call him a Nazi because I don't think that that's accurate. So you know, I'm not trying to make him one of us or pretend I am one of him. I'm just trying to be honest about what I see. And I think that Shapiro is obvious despite
the fact that those clips are him honestly talking. Nick Fuint is from seventeen or eighteen years old through twenty seven, so basically a decade now, has done three hours live almost every night for a decade. That's an insane amount of talking and recording and like way more than I'll probably ever do in my life. That's so much and he is the young man who's appealing to young men. If you take the greatest hits of my stuff, especially when I was doing the comedy show, you could paint
me in the worst light. Also, the reason I played that clip from Frontes is that I think there is a concerted effort to paint him as the worst version of himself in his words, yeah, but not taking into consideration the more nuanced, more Christian worldview that I think he actually does believe in the spouse Oftentimes when he's being more serious, like in the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's murder, he has a very touching and very Christian ethos that
he projected, and you know, myself and Dave applauded him for that because I thought it was really needed at that time. And then I think this is a good example too, Like I don't like Dave Portnoy, but I don't want people throwing coins at him and saying terrible things like that, like that's not a country I want to live in, either. So I just think it's oftentimes, you know, whatever the worst version of him is supposed
to be, it's not that. But he's also not this like purely great leader figure that many of his audience believes him to be. He's somewhere in between.
Yeah, and also too, I will say, I don't know if you caught it, but on the most recent as we're recording this episode of Provoked, you know, Scott Horton and Darryl Cooper going back if we're talking about this stuff, and I'm largely with on Scott's team there, like he was kind of saying the same things I'm saying now with more vulgarity.
But that's what he does.
Yes, But Daryl made a good point too that I totally agree with, to say, look, Nick's out there, He's got his followers, and if he says, hey, guys, you got to stand down on it, like they might listen to him because he's got credibility and there is whereas if you know, Scott Horton or me, you know, say that to like, they're not gonna you guys, you know exactly, and you're just trying to, you know, remain respectable.
Where's Nick calls it like it is? So I totally get that.
So again it's you know, if people want to talk to him, I think that's great to have dialogue just in general, journalist talking to anybody.
Yeah, and moreover, you know, he's growing up, Like I can see it in him from watching the old greatest hits of him saying the wildest shit and then listening to him over the past couple of years or seeing clips. I don't really watch the show in full. I don't have time for that, but it's just obvious to me that he's maturing and he's realizing that he has a real position of power that just kind of came out
of nowhere. He went from being the most hated blacklisted man in the world to now having one of the biggest audiences in the country, And it's like that comes with a lot of pressure, and I think that you start to think more deeply about what you have to say and try and iron out more of your ideology.
Yeah.
So I think it's very healthy and very important that people like Tucker Carlson, like Dave Smith have conversations with this guy. Like that's obviously a good thing, and it's just so frustrating that the mentality from the actual wook, right the James Lindsay's, the Ben Shapiro's, is We're not just going to cancel you if you have a conversation with him. We're gonna cancel people who won't condemn you for platforming Nick fuent Is. You know, it's the most
unhealthy way to go about this. And I know you don't agree with what they're doing. I'm not trying to say that. I'm just saying it's so dangerous. It creates the monster they're trying to slay. Like, I don't know why they can't see that, it's so obvious even with all of the suppression, he's become one of the biggest figures. So what the fuck are you guys doing? Like, what do you do you think? Oh, no, we just need to go harder. We just need a double down more.
We just need a black list him more. We just need to, you know, not just steal his bank accounts, but put him in prison this time, as if that won't turn him into a martyr and ultimately uplift his entire movement into a truly radical, dangerous thing. And it's just like, I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall that people just can't see what I'm saying.
There To answer though, that, like not you know, is not make it a rhetorical question on your part. That, like, I think James Lindsay would love it if Nickquinte said something crazy and it's not a show, so it's not that. Don't you guys see your creating this and they say, I mean, if they were being honest, yes, we need him to exist to justify what we've been saying.
Yep, no, I agree, But I guess I just that's kind of my distinction between whether or not you're a good actor or a bad actor is that if James is a genuine actor, like he's genuinely concerned about the rise of the alt right right, my opinion would be, well, then obviously you're going to want to sit down and have as many conversations with Nick fuent as you possibly can, because you you're a college professor type that you know has studied these things, and you understand the rise of
authoritarian figures and the pitfalls of that, and wouldn't you want to imbue that knowledge in him to try and prevent him from leading his audience down that path and instead his answer to the rise of an authoritarian right is to respond with the authoritarianism and like basically or soft power, I guess, but to suppress this conversation with this kid as much as humanly possible, and to do all of the things that you lamented when it came to the woke left, you're now doing to the right.
And it's I just think it's such a dead end. And I think it's so dangerous, And it's funny because they think that Flinta is indicative or reflective of all this danger that I can't see, but they can't see the danger of what they're doing themselves.
Yeah again, And I think you're right, Like it's you know, the analogy I use in my episode was with drug dealing that oh, if you don't like drive by shootings and overdoses and stuff, then don't make something illegal, because then that means it's only criminals and shoddy business practices that are in that space. So like we was here,
yeah that it's respectable people don't touch this stuff. And I when he was telling that story to Tucker and Flint is about how you know, back in the day when he was talking about Jesus, seems like, you know, we're gonna be a my whites are going to be a minority in this because I mean I can remember ten years ago, like, yeah, you could you said anything like that like this, some people would have taken a step back away from you, like, oh, I want to
get cooties, so I can understand. Whereas now that's the very mainstream thing to say because stuff has changed, So I understand you know what you're getting at in terms of like if things had happened differently, we wouldn't know his name right now, or he would have been sort of more convention commentator, but this sort of pushed him in that direction, or he was going to go this way.
The reason people flocked to him is because no one else was talking about this stuff because everyone else is afraid.
Right well, and he's very gifted, so it's like it's a dangerous combination. You took a really naturally talented orator with right wing tendencies and then you abused him very aggressively when he was very young, and it's like, well you want to just kick him out of Painter school next, you know, like what are you guys trying to do here? And I just think this is the fight that we're in though, It's like this is going to be the real divide on the right is like are we an
identitarian not an interventionist right wing. Are we a non identitarian more of an America constitutionalist libertarian, non an inventionist, individualist right wing more of our camp, And it's like, I still believe that both of those sides are preferable to endless empire and woke progressivism and socialism and ultimately,
you know, destruction of the Constitution. And it's like, so I'm just going to continue to be in the fray on that conversation and try and win that argument that I think our worldview is preferential to that that Nick Fuentes prescribes and let the chips fall where they may. So I've got to run because hop on your buddy show, Tom Woods. Okay, yeah, but I really appreciate your thoughtful analysis and pushback and I will absolutely keep it in mind and maybe we can do this again in the future.
Okay, thanks so much for having Mekln.
Yep, thank you, Bob talk so