The Slippery Slope of Work Besties

comes time for upper mobility, they might be like, actually, I don't know because so and so they so I would just say, like, be cautious about who you tell what to.

a place for workplace enemies. Dun dundune. So you always got to figure out how do I navigate workplace friendships and how do I separate personal from professional?

three percent of Baby boomers. So the gen Zers and the millennials are demanding more workplace friendships.

just add complexities to the workplace. You know, you might feel loyal to certain people because of the relationship that you form. They can also create like an us versus them mentality and this like clicky culture. Also, friendships can encourage gossiping and drama. I mean, I feel like everybody's been there. You find yourself like deep in the weeds of some drama and you're like, wait, I gotta take

a step back. And it also blurs the line between your personal and professional life, which can of course impact your mental health. I think if you have a close work friend, maybe you guys are calling each other after hours and you're still bringing up work stuff, right, it kind of just becomes more consuming. But I see, like

there are many benefits to work friendships. One, it makes you feel less lonely and socially isolated, which is especially important if you're working in a remote and hybrid job. Workplace friendships also boost happiness and job satisfaction overall, and they create a sense of belonging in an environment of support.

There's like this transparency aspect of it. Right, If you have a close work friend or even just an ally you maybe are able to talk transparently about pay and other things that go on just to kind of boost your overall you know, knowledge of what's going on at work. But of course it's a double edge sword, right, Like workplace friendships make us more invested, which can make us like our jobs more, but also when we leave or a friends live, then it becomes really difficult.

this comes down to dynamics and power. Dynamics, especially in the workforce, are so important figuring out if I can make a friendship with my manager or a certain coworker, maybe that coworker is more senior than I am, what happens when a friend becomes my manager or vice versa. So there's just so many different things that you have to navigate, and you have to figure out what works for me. And I think that these are the questions

that a lot of people are asking. Especially what I found to be interesting was that gen z ers want that, but then you guys also really want separation of like work and personal, which I think is very interesting because the stats almost contradict themselves. But there also is a

marriage there. And another thing that I was thinking of as you were talking about the pros and cons is also the additional pressure of maybe people from different communities, whether it's marginalized communities like people of color, people from different socioeconomic backgrounds, or even just women in the workforce

who have to kind of navigate these power dynamics. You know, think about all like the high profile women executives that you've seen talk about how in order for them to get into the C suite they had to be quote unquote one of the boys, right, or they had to learn how to speak jargon or keep up with men. I know, for me, even as I was growing up, I was always encourage go to the happy hours, go to the team socials. You don't have to do anything

there but just show yourself to be friendly. And it kind of sucks that we have to do that, but I do think that that also goes back to if you feel friendly, people are willing to look out for you, which is why this topic I feel is very timely and super fun. So Gianna, let me ask you first, how do you approach workplace friendships and like, what has been your experience with that?

We one just navigated college during the pandemic, so we already were feeling isolated, and then entered the workforce having fully remote jobs, so we missed out on those in person connections. And I remember, yeah, I was so excited to have a remote job. But now what you know, we have to relearn how to make friends. Our friends

from college or maybe moving away. They're starting their own journeys and it can feel really isolating in that time, So you know, when you're navigating adulthood, leaning into your work environment to make friends kind of happens naturally, I think for a lot of us, And depending on the workplace where you join, you're likely surrounded by people who have had similar shared experiences. They may be in a similar point in their lives, so naturally you kind of

bond together. So I've prioritized workplace friendship since I started my career. Some I'll be transparent, some of these relationships were kind of born out of trauma bonding. I love you, know, I think you in those instances. You have to be cautious that that doesn't become the whole relationship, right, Like it's not just negative talk all the time. But yeah, those a lot of my relationships have happened naturally, and

it's something I was definitely intentional about. And I also took advantage of every mentorship opportunity that was offered by the company. Luckily, We've had a few programs in my time here, and every time I've signed up and I've been a mentee. So that's kind of how I've approached it. But I'm curious from you over the course of your career how has that shifted for you totally.

they're at. For me, I would say that I agree with you in the sense that it's important to have friendships and people who at least make coming to work fun or good. You're going to be here for a long time, right, literally the hours in the day, but then also over the course of your life. However, I have also learned that if you get too close to fire,

it can burn you. And I think for me, well, let me take a step back first and just preface this by saying that if you are listening to this and if you work with me, it is not that I do not like you.

the phone, which you live like? Those are unique, but I don't really come into the workforce looking for that for me. I would say that also, having worked in certain industries like fashion and entertainment, I had to learn very early on a lot of these relationships were transactional and you can still make friendships in those spaces, but you have to sort of dissect who wants what from you when. And this is the same thing that happens

in corporate right, Like think about it. You are here because you are offering an exchange of goods and services, So they're already from the jump, before that friendship was even formed. Is a transaction happening. You know, you can come into work if all of a sudden you stop doing your work. Your friends can't save you, like they're gonna be making sure that they're good with their job. So for me, I would say that I learned pretty early on this idea of like navigating the space and

being friendly without being friends. You can still show up and be kind professional, really care about people, but there also has to be a point where this stops. And I would say for me, one of the biggest lessons in all of that was when I became a manager

for the first time. I've been a manager a couple of times throughout my career, and each time I had to navigate this really sticky situation of the people who I was friends with, the people I would cut up with right like we had like group chats going off, like we would do everything together. All of a sudden, now them reporting to me, and by natural order of a power dynamic, things got weird.

dynamics seeing this happen in real time. One time I was working and I was really close friends with two other individuals at a media company, and we were all close, like the three of us would do things together, but also I would spend independent time with each one of them, and they would also spend time independently with each other. Chaw one day.

And she would just do like the smallest things, like in a meeting, if so and so, let's just use person A person B. If person B had an idea, person A would cut into them like, well, actually, I don't know if that's a good idea because and just then they always did it in front of senior leadership, and obviously that friendship broke. The gag was neither of them got the promotions. I was like, dang, girl, you

was fighting in the club and didn't even win. And obviously then my friendship with that person because I started just side eyeing you. I'm like, yeah, you move really weird, you move spooky like I don't like that. So even though everybody is not that situation, everybody will do that. And again, as I said in the beginning of my spiel,

I do love people. I do also think that I have seen enough of these instances where I say, you know what, for me personally, I gotta have some boundaries and I got to know where to place people in a healthy way.

and community at work. So either way, you got to start somewhere, and I think you know an easy place to start. It might sound so simple, you're like, wow, Gianna, groundbreaking. It's just asking your coworkers to grab lunch or get coffee. And you can even do that virtually, like setting up a coffee chat with one of your coworkers. Then it's really up to you to decide how much time and energy do you want to invest with that person. Maybe you commit to a monthly lunch with colleagues, or maybe

you get lunch with them every day. Right, Like there's two extremes, there's an in between. You really have to just figure out what works best for you and what you're trying to gain out of these friendships. And as you're building your relationships, you really have to decide how much do you want to blend your personal and professional life, which is going to bring us to the topic of boundaries.

And I will say, though, you can't be friends with everyone in the office, Like that's just kind of the reality of it all, and that's okay.

it might be to get those opportunities. So you really have to be authentic about how you're you know, approaching and bringing yourself to this relationship and not just wanting to be seen as likable so you move up the ladder. And I really love how Jarah mentions power dynamics because I think that's where it gets a little messy. You almost have to just be an observer and like sit back in a room and see how everyone's moving right.

Like a lot of times, if you're getting moved onto a new project and you're working with a new team, you might not know the power dynamics of that team. And I've totally experienced this, you know, I've gone to my manager in these moments and been like, Okay, you've been here longer than me, what do I kind of need to know? Right? Like I need to go in and form my own opinion and figure this out for myself. But he can add some kind of color to give me guidance as I walk into this, so I'm not

really going in totally blind. So you could always go to your manager or a mentor for insight. And also I think when it comes to speaking to senior leaders. Let's say you want to do a quarterly check in with somebody who's higher up on your team. You have to approach them knowing what you want to talk about. Like, you can't go into these meetings just being like, Hey, just wanted to see how it's going. You have to come prepared, and I think during that you know, catch up.

Sometimes you can feel nervous if like, oh, I'm in the hot seat. I have their time, right, Their time is valuable, so as yours. But you need to come prepared. And if they start asking you questions and you're like, oh, I just don't know like the answer to that, totally fine to admit that, right, Like not everybody knows everything, And also don't be afreie to ask them questions like what's top of mind for them. I think the more conversational it can be, the better.

that's how you're going to show up. Show up like that, right, But to your point, if you're putting one on one, you know, time with your manager a skip level which is your manager's manager, or you might even have access to people a couple of skip levels up right, then you need to go into those meetings really carrying the weight of who you want to be seen as. And the good thing is all it takes is some due diligence, writing out some note, practicing in front of the mirror

if you get a little shy. I know, for me, for instance, sometimes when I do one on ones with our VP, I get tongue tied and I get a little nervous. So I like to practice, and I like to have out like post it notes or data points that I really want to highlight. And to your point, I always think that showing yourself to be friendly is always going to carry It doesn't matter if you are just starting out or if you've been in a company

for thirty forty years. People want to work with nice people, and so if you can already start doing that, and if you can start showing yourself to be that person that people know that they can depend on and that they can trust, that is really a great way I think you can navigate senior leaders and show yourself to be a potential for a senior leader one day.

open up about. But even sometimes, like when it comes to a workplace problem I'm having, I found myself at one point going to my manager and like just like complaining about it, and I was like, wait, Okay, this is obviously not a good look for me. I need to come like more with solutions, right, Like, I know

he's there to support me and advocate for me. And sometimes if I really can't figure it out myself, like then I'm gonna really need to go to him, but I can come with solutions, not all of my problems. So I think it's like really important to remember, like, at the end of the day, this person is measuring your performance. They're talking to like higher ups about how you're doing, so you have to be intentional about how you kind of communicate with them.

in particular. I'm only speaking from that because that's my experience. Who is in corporate America who has said otherwise. There is a level of trust that you have to build with people, but you also got to make sure that you look out for yourself. Because the same way as I might very casually be telling my manager about how I was turned up on Friday and I was doing

all this during the weekend. Blah blah blah. You don't know if everyone has your best interest at heart, and you don't know what malicious intent someone might have that then when it comes time for promotion or it comes time for upper mobility, they might be like, actually, I don't know because so and so they I don't know, you know, or if I know. Some people might tell their manager, you know, I'm gonna clock out a little early. I'm gonna go to yoga, and you think it's all

because you go to yoga. They go to yoga, and then they're gonna say, actually, we can't put them in another role because they leave work early. So I would just say, like, you just have to be careful about what you tell people. And again, none of this is set in stone, right. There are some people like I know Gianna's manager and we both love him very much, so, but there are other people who all I can just say is be cautious about who you tell what to.

do is just match the other person's energy. Like if we're talking about work friendships here, you know, I'm gonna slowly open up as you open up, or like, I'm

not going to take the lead on this. Sometimes I will if there's like so much safety I feel with this person, right and we're like bonding in that moment for sure, But largely I'm going to just try to match somebody else's energy, so as they start opening up, I'm going to feel more comfortable doing the same, and it's a signal that they're starting to trust you so that you can also trust them. Also totally okay to

have like off the record conversations with people. I've done this a thousand times, not a thousand, but a lot of times, a lot you know, being like, hey, like I'm like just trying to you know, figure something out, especially like when it comes to pay right, that's like such a taboo topic, especially in an office setting. Sometimes I'm like, hey, can we like have an off the record conversation about X Y? And Z and then you know you're able to speak transparently with someone. Yeah.

radar once a quarter, maybe once every six months. I love to send former managers if mind, just a quick note just being like, Hey, still alive here, this is what I'm up to, still surviving and thriving sometimes, and it's nice because I think the fear is that people

don't want these friendships to feel transactional. But there's a way to navigate it in which you are still building your network, which is going to be the social collateral that you will have as you pivot and change into job after job after job, but it still can feel genuine and unique to you. So send people you know a thank you note afterward. You know, wish people happy birthday if you know it's their birthday day, or you know.

Sometimes I will see on social media that someone is celebrating an anniversary and I wish them a happy anniversary. Little small things like that, right, Because again, showing yourself to be kind and friendly and a team player is going to take you a long way. And one of the things that I see sometimes is that you will leave a job and you will leave all those friendships behind.

Now here's the thing. If you leave a job and that person who you used to chat it up with every single day y'all used to go about that was your roll dog. You know, y'all was riding down the hood together all this stuff. If all of a sudden they never check for you ever again, now you know exactly where to place them in your life. But I do also believe that in that same vein, you can create real friendships with people who you keep up with. The person who I told you was in my wedding,

she don't even work here no more. Like, So we have to actually take an intentional approach to creating that friendship and keeping it up. But it all started in here, it went down and LinkedIn and then it's just now out in the streets. To take a short break, there's still more talk about friendship and also would you take a pay cunt for your pet? I got thoughts that's next.

So hopefully after listening to today's episode, you are starting to ask yourself the questions about workplace friendships and how you want to go about it. For me, I think one thing I'm taking away from this conversation is that, however you want to shake this out, it's okay. You can have all the friends in the workforce, or you can have no friends and keep it, you know, just pushing p P asn't professional like. However you want to do this, it's up to you. And also I would

say that creating those boundaries is important. Ask yourself and vet this question. Are you okay with someone knowing whatever information you're about to give them if they were not your friend? If the answer is H, actually would not want somebody to know that, maybe that will also help evaluate if that's information that you should exchange with someone else. What about you, Giana.

and energy with. So you just need to decide that all for yourself, like you were saying, and you can never go wrong with just showing up and being friendly.

or time at home with my pet. But across it all, people were sharing picks of their pets, which I really appreciated.

you know, then let alone. Then adding in the extra elements of taking care of dogs and living in New York and then training and all that stuff. So I also think that there is an opportunity here to say that this is also a situational thing. Maybe some people they can afford to do it, but other we gotta go out here and make this money. Okay, and my dogs too. I'm about to put the other two in

commercials too. Everybody got to pull their way working. I feel like I feel like Gypsy, like my mama Rose here, I am taking my work. Make mama stop baby.

on and review and follow the podcast. You have been hanging out with me and Gianna for a few weeks. Now you like us. Let's make an official.