In this week's episode, Donald and I discuss the societal expectations and gender norms that often hinder men from expressing vulnerability and seeking emotional support. We examine why it is crucial for men to express their emotions and make self care a priority in order to achieve optimal well being. Additionally, we discuss the importance of paying attention to red flags, hold to best support men in your life who
may be struggling with emotional difficulties, and so much more. Join us as we discuss the often overlooked and misunderstood turin of men's emotions, the importance of self care in maintaining mental health, and explore how we can all contribute to a society that is supportive and empathetic of one's emotions, regardless of their gender. If you're listening to the podcast on Apple Podcasts, please remember to rate
and leave a comment below. Also, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at Let's Talk to Things Now. Grab your tea, coffee, or a glass of wine and let's talk to things. Hello everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Let's Talk to Things. Today we are talking to Things with photographer Donald Darling. Hi. Donald, how are you. I'm doing well, Ash, how are you? I am good. Thank you so much for coming. I hope you're having a great day so far. It
is definitely a day. Oh buddy, Yeah, happy to be here. I'm on a podcast. Well, I am definitely glad that you're here. So, as you know, I usually begin each episode with a quote or song lyrics related to the guest or topic, and this episode's song lyrics are people see me acting strange, they might think it's a burning shame. But the people don't realize the pangs of hell that I feel. So let them say that I'm mad. They don't know how it feels to be sad.
I don't know who could be glad in a situation like this, And that
is let them say. By Bob Andy. And the reason I chose this song is really because of the message, which to me says that sometimes your friend or family member, or maybe even you may start acting strangely and it likely has nothing to do with other people, and that maybe yourself or other people are going through a tough time, and so I think it just makes you think that rather than take it personally, perhaps you can inquire and maybe
give them the space that they need to receive support, you know, So I wanted to know what your interpretation of these lyrics are. So I would say, I'm I'm along kind of aligned with what you with with with your interpretation. Um, it's interesting because this wouldn't be the first time someone would uh use that to describe how I can act sometimes. But um, it is where you know, a lot of times what you perceive to be um or the way you perceive something is not necessarily the way it is. Right.
Um. Sometimes what's what's strange to or out of character to someone else? You know, it's just it's just like a moment you're having, right, or you know, it could just be you being your true self. So you know, it just depends on on the person and depends on the
situation and what's going on at that time. I agree, I agree, and I think time and time again, I've heard people say or seeing people post on social media, you know, check on your strong friend, or everyone's fighting a battle you know nothing about, etc. Right, But in reality, it seems as though until something happens, you know, most people admit that they don't usually check on their friends or family, you know,
with the assumption especially there's quote unquote strong friends or family with the assumption that like, oh, they posted on Instagram or you know, they put up a picture somewhere and that means that they're fine, and we're all guilty of that. Right. But I think that even though I think possibly equally both men and women experience this, I'm curious to hear a male perspective because I think that there's this unsaid expectation that men have to be strong all the time,
even when they may not feel like it. So as typically the strong friend, I mean the girl I feel you, you know, I think that that's absolutely a thing, right. Um, people, there's like there's always this saying that you know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil, right, So if you're not, if you're not always the one that's kind of expressing that something is going on, Um, people think everything's fine. So um, you know, oftentimes that strong friend isn't the first person on your
list to check on because you just assumer right, they're good. I don't I don't see anything happening. You know, they're posting as normal. But you know, as we all know, everyone battles things, you know, battles their own demons and and you know, everyone needs some kind of support. Um as far as it comes to men, um you know, society tells us we're supposed to be the strong ones, right, we are supposed
to you know, not show emotion. You know, you know whole stand up for the family and hold everything on our shoulders and you know, bear the brunt of all things that are coming. But you know, when you break it all down, people or people, man, woman, you know, how do you identify it's you are a person at the core, you have feelings, and you know those feelings get hurt, you get angry, you get sad. You know, if we all go through we all go
through these same emotions. So I've never really been one to agree with or really love that kind of narrative about um men just being the strong one and not showing emotions, listening something going on with me. I have no problem shedding a tear. It's a small thug tear. But if you hear all right, so you know it's and and and and I'll be honest, right, it took a while for me to get to that point because because you're growing up, you know again, you're man, you You're not you can't
show weakness. You're not supposed to show this um But as you get older and you realize, you know, you keep things bottled up for for long enough, it's going to explode, right and and initially, and if that's happened to you and you've you know, been lucky enough to to recover from that, that's great. And if it's happened to you and you haven't,
then you know, oftentimes it's a lesson you learn too late. So you know, I do think again that is a narrative that that that society has you know, preached and instilled and and us that demands supposed to be you know, this super strong superhero. And there's nothing wrong with that. You know, you can't go around crying about everything, but if you're going through stuff you need to, you should have that outlet to express that because again,
we are all human. Absolutely, I think that's so true. And speaking of you know, societal factors, and you talked about growing up, you know, so it starts from childhood, whether that's boyhood or girls who it starts from childhood, right, like what you presume the expectations of your gender are. So do you think that social and cultural factors influence someone's willingness to acknowledge that vulnerability or even to accept help from other people. Absolutely.
I mean we come from a culture where you know that macho, it's it's it's almost you're almost boring into it, right, you know, you're not supposed to be soft. You know, you're not supposed to be this, and you learn that coming up and and it's and it's reinforced from both your male you know, for the male figures in your life as well as the women in your life. Right, it just kind of is what our culture, you know, it has has been defined to be. So you know,
I definitely think that plays a part. Now does everybody subscribe to that? Obviously not you have exceptions, but in general, Yeah, that's that's absolutely something that is that stems from culture. It stems from you know, the environment you're in. Um, you know who you're around. Some people have it a little bit harder and it's and have a lot more of it because they're in like a male dominated environment or you know, you may have a little you may have a little less if you're in uh, you know,
female dominated environment or what have you. Or And again we both know that it can go either way because you have some women in our culture that are all about listen, I don't want to see you crying. I don't want to see you expressing these emotions because of you know, this, that and the third which we won't necessarily touch on here, but in Jamaican culture, there are many reasons why they don't want you to be quote unquote soft.
So you know, in my case, absolutely stem from that. Um. And again, I've just over time, you just you change, you, you expand you grow, you know you, I self reflect a whole lot, you know, I pull from from different different places and you just learn to evolve or not right. So essentially everything is a choice, and that's something that we talk about a lot on this podcast in different ways. Like you have a you have a choice at some point in your life.
Maybe not as a child sort of, I mean yes, everyone, everyone in general has a choice. Um. Some some people may not realize the choice they have, and some people are too forced into a certain way, even if it may go against what they what they truly feel right, because you you start to look at the stigma behind certain things and how will respond to it. And you know, oftentimes a lot of people are afraid to you know, potentially express the way they truly feel about a situation for fear
of whatever backlash comes from that. M That's very true. That's that's actually an excellent point. So, as you mentioned, you know, and as you know, this podcast is geared toward Caribbean people, right, A lot of my listeners are Caribbean women, women in general. But obviously anybody can listen to this podcast, and the hope is that anybody listens and anybody relates
and feels seen and heard. Right, So for anyone listening, but with I guess a keen perspective or you know, just thinking about what comes with our culture in the diaspora, how do you suggest that anyone can cultivate an environment in which a friend that maybe is going through something and is you know, of our culture and maybe was brought up where you know, you don't really say anything, or if you're a man, maybe you don't show emotion.
Like, how can somebody cultivate an environment in which that person or that friend or family member feels comfortable sharing their emotional struggles. I mean you have to be the brave one to you know, want to create that environment. Um, I can say in my case it was and this is a sound bad, but um, it's it's finding people outside of the culture that have that are kind of operating in the space in which you you look to to you know, get to right. Um, I I can tell you it's
like showing emotion and doing all that. It definitely did not come from Jamaican friends and not and not to not to say that that that is not a thing, right, it's it's not to say just personally the people I was I was around are not the people that was like, you know, if
you feel sad about this, you can you can express it here. Um. You know, I just I surrounded myself with people that we're either operating in the in which in the ways that I was hoping to get to, um, and that those people that created an environment where it was comfortable and where I could learn. Um. If you're looking to create that environment for yourself, I mean quite honestly, you're just gonna have to be brave and
step out and do it. And you know it has to start with someone and ye, you know, it just has It's kind of just what it is you You have to start with whoever it is that is going to say I feel a certain way. I don't believe this is the right way for us to continue to operate. Let me be the example. UM I again to not to sound like I'm digging up myself, but you know, but like for no but s's like for for my from my friend's circle, especially
my my circle of friends that are from our culture. I don't care if you call me soft or not. If if something's going on with me and I feel sad about it, I want to cry about it. I have no problem saying your look, this bothers me, bother me, this is what I did, This is how I feel about it, and I can educate you on why. You know, this is the approach I took, and this is where my comfort was. And you know, hope to get you to a space where you feel comfortable because again, like I said,
you know when we first started the conversation, we're all human. We all have the same emotions, despite what you despite the facade you want to put on, you're you know, the toughest of the tough get sad, the toughest of the tough, you know, are angry, and and you know we all go through those different range of emotions definitely, definitely, And I think, like I said, I think there are people just in different environments, man or woman, that you know, deal with somebody that might be
telling them they're too emotional or maybe they're not emotional enough. You know, there's a there's all different sides to this conversation, but it's just something that I noticed isn't really discussed with men. I think maybe maybe nowadays or more recently, you know, with the advent of like podcasts and things like that, where men are able to express themselves. But even that, I saw something and I didn't even plan to say this, but it just made me
think of it. I saw something a few days ago that was like, men need to, you know, stop going on these podcasts and you know, do something constructive with their lives and blah blah blah. But then you'll see other posts that would be like, oh, I wish men just had a space to express themselves, right, And of course I'm not taking up for the men that go on podcast or shows or whatever medium and bash women
and you know, say derogatory things. I'm talking about. I've seen some very good all male podcasts that talk about real issues that men go through that just talk about issues in general, right, And I think that's amazing that, you know, we have created society, has created this environment that makes them comfortable to not only do it amongst themselves, but to share it with
the world. Listen to some of these people, the people that specifically the people that they're saying that men need to stop going on these podcasts are oftentimes some of the people that need to go on them the most, right. You know, hurt people, hurt people, hurt people who So it's it's almost and sometimes it's almost a jealousy thing. It's like, well, look at them over there sharing and being vulnerable. I wish I could do that,
yes, but my environment doesn't allow for that. So I'm gonna meet this with the only emotion I know, which is anger, right instead of understanding. So I while I don't think people need to get on these podcasts and you know, spill everything, they don't have to. But you know,
if you feel comfortable telling your life, tell your life. We because we have this double standard where it's, oh, we don't we want men to to open up um or or or Betty, Yet we want we want to want to make make progress when it comes to things like domestic violence and and and just violence and as a whole and and all these things that oftentimes men are responsible for. But then the path to get us to that place,
everybody has an opinion about. Wow, that's true. It's like, oh, well, we want you to be tough, but you know, not that tough. Don't want you to be soft but not super soft. Like no, let me deal with the thing I need to deal with in my way. That's more constructive than me going out and shooting salati or as me going out and beating somebody up, or me you know, taking the
hurt that I experienced from rejection. And now I'm out here telling you about how horrible women are, right right, Instead of doing that, let me express, let me tell you look, yeah you broke you broke my heart. Yes, it hurt me. Let me work through it instead of me getting on on TV and black. You know, all these women are terrible and you know they only want this. Yeah you can't. You got to pick a side, absolutely absolutely, And it's funny you say that. I
remember listening to another one of my favorite podcasts with Kadeen and Daval. I don't know if you know them, they're a married couple. Okay, so they're a married couple of long story shorts. He's American and she's Jamaican, and basically their podcast they talk about a married of issues. But this particular episode he mentioned something like that, like having a friend that had a bad experience with one women, one woman, and all of a sudden, he
was like, women are terrible. Women are this? Women are that? And he was like, but bro, you didn't date all women. You literally had an experience with this one person, and no, you've decided that all these people are like that. So we're going to talk about kind of the psychology behind that a little bit later. So it's very interesting that you brought that up. But it just made me think of what he said because it was very similar to what you just said. And I love that men
are the ones saying this. I love that I didn't just give you an example of all woman podcasts that was saying, well, this is what men think, because I think it's really important for men to fill that void by telling women telling other men like, these are our thoughts, right, because I think, yes, equality is important, and equity is important, but at the end of the day, we are different genders and we think differently. And so that is something with the whole men and podcast thing that I
actually appreciate because at least, no, you're hearing from men. You might not like what you hear all the time because I don't you know what I mean, but at least it's coming from the horse's mouth. It's not another gender just surmising or coming up with their own opinion based off of their lens or what they went through with particular men, whether and not just relationships.
It could be you know, their view on fathers, their view on siblings, like that's from their perspective, and a lot of times it's it's just with their lens. And I don't feel like it's healthy to share information about an experience that you have never had and you will never had. Have Yeah, you it's in my opinion, it's more it's more productive when the message
is coming from someone you can relate to. Right, Right, A woman that has never been in a relationship, that has never played the male role in a relationship, can only tell me so much about playing the male role in the relationship. Right, you can you can tell me what you can tell me about your experience from a woman's perspective being in the relationship and what that person, your significant other who would have you, has done and what
you would interpret that as. But like it's gonna be different coming from him, absolutely, absolutely absolutely, and he's got and his message is going to be different than the way he delivers it to me as another man, and I just may relate to that differently. So I absolutely think we had we as men have to be the ones to drive this type of conversation and this type of change. And I'm with you. I love what these podcasts.
They're the productive ones. Even the hood was. I like how all of these podcasts are getting people to express themselves because like, I'd much rather you go and just run your mouth on someone's podcasts, then again you run these streets and the run upon me. And right right, no, absolutely absolutely,
I think it's it's really important. And something you said before, I know, again, within our culture, and I think just black culture in general, you don't you're kind of taught as you're growing up, like you don't tell people your business, right, Like that's a thing. So if you're a friend of a strong friend, let's say, right, and you want to support them, how do you know, or like, what strategies
can you use to check in with them? But not but make it more supportive and less intrusive, because I think that's an issue that a lot of people have that they don't know how to how to not make it seem like they're being intrusive and that they're really they really care and they really want to support. Because let's not forget before you answer that you do have those people that just want to know the story. I've been in those situations before where
you really think like, oh, there they care. They they really want to know you're okay. But once they have the story, it's like they don't care anymore because no, they have the story. So how do you kind of navigate that? Because I think that's a really hard thing for people to do. So I'll start with this the ones I just want to know the story or not your friends, that's a word. Let's just let's just
make that clear. Right, If I'm asking you something just because I'm curious and I want to satisfy some weird need to know, then I'm not your friend. Right. A friend is asking because they're concerned. A friend is asking because they want to help. Right, A friend. I've had friends be in situations where I'm like, you don't even have to tell me the details of it. I'm cool, I don't need to know the details. But what do you need from me? Right? How can I help you?
Right? Tell me what you need to tell me so I can be of assistance. I don't need to know all details because I don't I care, But you tell me what you're comfortable with. And I think you know, if you're the friend that's doing the checking in, that's the coroach you gotta take right and and and your friendship should already be built on on the foundation that you know, your your your concern and the thing that matters most
to you is your friends well being. If your if your friendship is built on that foundation, then you don't run into the secretive you know, I don't want to tell such and such dissent. And if you've also exhibited those those you know, traits and tendencies to not be that messy person that just wants to hear the story so they can tell the story. UM, then you know people are more more open to share and tell you what's going on.
UM. You know one of the tactics that I've used and I hate to ord tactic, but that's the first word that came to mind, is that I just again, I'm just it's a general check in, even if, even if in my even if in my heart I feel like there's something more going on, it's just, hey, how's your day going to? Let me just check in generally, and and from there, you know, we can we kind of progress to know how you truly are doing right.
Um And and the other thing I'll say is that's one of the things about our culture, Black culture, Caribbean culture, what have you, that it's something I think we need to work on changing the whole secretive. I don't want to buy him a business and I don't want I get it, I
get where it's. It's useful if if it's the wrong people you're dealing with, But when it's the right people, you gotta you gotta start to get comfortable with opening up right because as friends, family, what have you, you ultimately should want that person you care about to win and to be the best person they can be and be in the best state they can be end um and and and if you're rooted in that, then you know no one
should worry about what your intention is behind asking the questions. I agree, I agree, and I think that also is an important part of your well
being. Keeping your well being intact. Right, And in a previous episode, we talked about happiness and well being and self care and you know, having strong social connections and how all of those things play a role into everyone's happiness and well being, right and basically everyone being able to be them best their best selves, no matter what your gender is, no matter what societal constructs are put out there that you supposedly have to live up to. You
know, being okay within yourself. Having an environment where you feel like you can talk to someone and feel safe to say, hey, something's going on, rather than, like you said, take it out in other acts of violence is very, very very important. Right. So we've obviously, well not obviously the audience wouldn't know, but we have been friends for several years, so I know some of the tools I would say that you use to keep your well being intact, you know, golf, bike riding, and
photography right as forms of your self care. So I wanted to know if you could share how you discovered that those things brought you joy and weren't just simply you know, hobbies or just things to do. Um, So I mean I can, I can go through them. So I've known for a while that being outside and being active is good for me. Right as as a kid growing up, the worst thing my mother could do is tell me I can't go outside. You can punish me, you can take the TV,
you can take the allowance, take all of that. Just don't tell me I can't go outside, right because just being outside, it does, it does wonders for me just mentally. I love the sun. Or I'm a Caribbean baby, I love the sun. And that's why I live in
California because I love the sun. Right. Um. And you know, the bike ride, the cycling and the mountain biking and all that stuff, you know, initially started out as me just trying to lose some weight and trying to feel better, you know, from a physical standpoint, and I just I just realized in doing it that you know, I really just love being out here in nature. It's it's it's a weird, like even if you're out with other people. When I'm on the bike, I'm just in
my own world. You know, I'm obviously watching out for crazy drivers. But outside of that, you know, it's just it's away from the escape. Um now I have a family. Um, being on the bike and being out on the golf course or this is my quiet place. This is where I can get a break from everyday life. You know, I can can I'm golfing, I'm hanging out with friends. I'm typically frustrated at something
on the golf course, but it's okay. I'm outside. I'm away from all the things that I you know, the general things that you have to do when you have a job and family and so so. Yeah, you know, as far as discovering it, I just I've always been open to try things. Someone one day was like, hey, I'm out on biking. You should try it out. Say cool, get a bike, jump on and see if I like it. If I don't like it, I
saw a bike, I enjoyed it. The golf thing kind of started as like a chess move in corporate America because everyone in corporate America seeing we played golf, and then that kind of that kind of developed into oh I really liked this sport. I really enjoy being out here. Same thing with the
cycling. Photography has just been a passion of mine. Man, if you the minute I pick up a camera, nothing else matters but what I see through my lens and me just just just a pure being a purist when it comes to photography, you know, getting the shot that I want, being able to focus in on whatever the subject is that I'm capturing at that time, it calms me. You know, I'm anxious at times because you want to get it right, but it's just a feeling that it just it again.
It does well for me mentally, and it's just a great outlet for me to one express creativity, you can express frustration. You really can express all of your emotions from behind this camera and and you know, present it to the world if you want or not, or keep it to yourself. You know. Depending some people take amazing photos that the world never sees, and it's just it's just one of those things that, like I said, but it also started off me and photography. I wanted to decorate my part.
Man. I didn't feel like buying photos, so I picked up a camera and learn how to use it. And you know, fifteen years later, here I am making some pretty pretty dope content to put out to the world. And you know, it's just you know, you have to be open to trying these things and truly, you know, immersing yourself and whatever it is that you are trying and getting from it what you can and truly
again just surrendering yourself to the process. And that's that's so interesting because that's something that I was going to point out listening to you, it seems like you have made the choice to surrender in that way to say, like, you know what, yeah, I'm just going to try golfing because you know that's what they do in corporate America. But you're still willing to try it because just because that's what they do, that doesn't mean you have to try
it. You know, Mountain Biker, you had a friend say, oh you should try it. You could have said a cool story, bro, no thanks, but you decided to try it, you know. And I think what you said is perfect, like put yourself out there trying new things, see what you like. You know, you never know what you like
until you try it, right, But specifically for photography, right. I love the fact that you turned your passion for photography into a business per se, right, And it didn't start like that, Like you just explained how it started. But I wanted to touch on that a little bit because nowadays, you know, somebody takes maybe a good picture on Instagram and they think they're a photographer, but you take it very seriously. I know that to be true. So I wanted to know if you would share with us what
inspired you to really take photography seriously? And you know, how would you describe your photography style? So what I'll start the first question? What convinced me to take it seriously? I I don't like to not be good at things. It's a thing with me. I started out with it, and I you know, I learned the basics, and I mean I got hate. I always say I got hazed into photography. I literally learned when my my friend started to teach me this. Um. It was literally from the
bare bones, right. I had to learn the absolute basics of a camera, of basics of composition, the hard way, UM. And I think you know, for me putting in that work up front and knowing kind of the rigor behind that, UM, I wanted to make sure that you know,
I saw a finished product. I saw I saw the fruits of that labor for lack of a better term, right, So that partially you know, pushed me and then you know, just really falling in love with it, and and and it's reflecting, right because I started to really reflect on how like my history with a camera, and come to find out I've for
for a good, you know, bulk of my young life. I can remember myself with a camera, with some kind of camera, and I just it was one of those things you just didn't realize at the time until I was you know, quote unquote an actual photography. I was like, oh wow. During all four or five years of college, I always had a cam quarter or a digital camera. When I was I think I remember when I was eight, one of the birthday presents I got was a Kodak film
camera. Um. You know, so it's always kind of been a part of my life, and it just took a while for me to realize that, you know, this is a thing that I want to pursue and and with all things that I try my hand at, I'm gonna give him my all. And if it sticks and I, you know, continue to get to have interest in it, then you know, I continue along with it. Photography also changes so often. Um, it's a it's an ever evolving
art. Forum. You look at photography through years, you know, leading up to this, you know, social era of of you know, you have everyone walks around with a camera in their pocket now right, smartphones are are taking photos that are nicer than the cameras. You know, a lot of us learned on them, you know. And and and everyone is a
photographer now right until you until you put a camera in manual everybody. Um So, you know, it's it's being able to navigate the now crowded space and still being able to produce something that stands out in that crowded space. You know. That's that's like an ever, That's that's like the carrot chase, right, continuing to be sharp, being able to stand out, being able to to really you know, shine in a in an oversaturated space. I love that. And what would you say your photography style its? Um?
I am? It's hard to define. I I'm a street I'm a street street photographer at heart, right because that's where I started. I started. I love candidates. I love you know, natural, you know, capturing natural moments. I don't overpose things. I don't you know, try to you know, over edit things. I just like things to be in
their pure form. I like to capture people in their own element. Um. And you know the style is it's kind of just it translates to that just capturing these you know, minor blips in time, you know, whatever it is, You're just you're capturing a memory and a moment in time, and you know, basically essentially freezing it so that you can go back to
it. You know. The best thing for me is for me to take a photo, whether it's a professional photo or me just you know, taking pictures of my daughter just to go back and say, wow, there is a memory attached to this, right, I can look at this photo and say, I remember this is when she was looking out the window and looking for cars, or you know, you know this is when you know she
was born. I have like literally fresh out photos of of of my daughter, you know, when she was born, and just just being able to go back to that memory. Um. You know, it's kind of kind of a lot of the things that drive it. And again, the style
is just it's just a natural, you know, raw style. And I think it's because I started out in the street photography, where things are extremely unpredictable, predictable, and everything is candid and you know, I've just just kind of based even my portrait work, my landscape work, you know, all of that work is based in you know, on that foundation. I love that, and you know it's funny we both said it, but it's
like everyone is a photographer now right. Everyone got a sony or a cannon or some professional camera and know they advertise that they're a wedding photographer, right, which is fine because, like you just described very well, you know, photography can be an outlet for people and you know, maybe you pick it up and you're really good, but it's just kind of like a hobby something that you just picked up a camera you thought, wow, I took
a couple of good pictures of my friends and stuff, like maybe I can do this, right. But there are also some people like you and others that are very passionate about photography and some that even want to make it a career. So even though you're you kind of vacillate between both, do you
have any advice to someone that is really interested in taking it seriously? And you know, maybe they think it's not something they can take seriously because of the overwhelming amount of persons that just think they are photographers like and maybe they feel discouraged about trying to make it a career. Yeah, um, I constantly live in that state, so I can absolutely I probably I'm not reading your diary, I promise no, it's listen. I have no problem,
no problem sharing that. Um. But but it is a thing, you know, if you are someone that is is truly looking at this and wondering if it can be a career, right, the best thing you can do is try it, you know, right, It just it's just you know, if if you think you're if you believe in yourself enough and you're willing to absolutely learn the craft, put the work in, you will find an
audience, right you. You will absolutely find someone that will hire you, um to take their photos if you truly are you know, putting in that work and you're good, and you're you're passionate about it and you're not really necessarily trying to take the shortcut around it. If you respect the craft, it will respect you back. Um. And And although there is it is an oversaturated you know market at the moment um, there are still people that
are picking up cameras today that are still breaking into this. There's oversaturated market because you know, there's a there's a there's a lane for everyone, and there's a customer or a client for everyone, and you just have to do your work and finding you know what that lane and who that specific client is. Yes, yes, I think that's that's really sold advice. Okay,
so we're gonna have a little bit of fun changing topics. Right. So you are happily married with a beautiful family, but unfortunately there are some people out there that have not had the best luck in marriage. Right, So I'm trying a little segment called that no sounds safe. And I saw these
stories on BuzzFeed. I'm sure you're familiar with BuzzFeed. Sometimes I'm literally cracking up to the point of tears, and sometimes I'm looking at things or reading things and I'm like, but wait, that don't sound safe, you know. So this particular one, the title is I'm just reading the title, so you'll just you'll know what's going on. What is keeping from the title? Right, The title says I didn't find out until seventeen years into marriage.
People are spilling the secrets they learn about their partner after marriage, and it is pretty unsettling. So a lot of these examples are basically people being married for years and years and years and then finding out the craziest things. Right, So I'm just going to read a couple and I just want to hear your reaction. Right. So one is, after five years of marriage, I found out that my husband's family tried to take a hit on his ex wife earlier. They ended up not going through with it, but I
ran like hell and have never looked back. That's um. They tried to put what is she? What does she do? That's listen screen, but you know, tell me out up front, man, like I didn't know what I'm getting into here. Hit that's I don't think we might have to did we sign a pren No? Well, here's the thing. I'm actually proud that the example ended with her saying she got older there, because I was sure it was gonna end with her saying, but where we'll be married
ten years next spring or like something concerning like that. So I actually I'm actually giving her props for realizing like, wait, this is not safe. That not so unsafe. That is again outside of outside of this person. No, unless that person is threatening the life of you know, the husband, I will have you and then the family put the hit. I can okay, maybe I can explain. I can understand that. But outside outside
of that, yeah, you gotta run. You gotta run fast, fast, and you can't even tell you you can't even tell them when you're gonna run, because there's no telling what they might do to Yeah, I'm I'm gonna say, I'm gonna say your honor, who we got? I gotta go on my head out. I gotta go to my own safety. Oh my gosh. Okay. Another one says we were planning on getting married,
but before setting a date, I found out I was pregnant. Unfortunately, I miscarried, which was devastating and confusing as it was my first ever pregnancy. When expressing her condolences, his mother said it may have been a sign that he wasn't ready for another child. What another he has a child with? Who? Where? When? Wow? You know what though, that's that's not uncommon, that that is that which is scary, absolute thing that
happens. Um I would run. I would. I would because even if the person is a changed person now because because most people would would would would say, well, you know he did that to such and such, but not me. You know, I'm different. You're not different realistically, and you can't assume that you're different. So in my case, that would be a huge red flag. And you know, I would look at the miscarriage as potentially a blessing in disguise in keeping me from being you know, legally
you know, attached to this person for at least eighteen years. Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, Yeah, some of some of these are very scary, but the fact that they're real is even more scary. So someone else said, people are crazy crazy. Someone else said, my husband lied to the I R. S at Old more than fifty thousand dollars in taxis and he
married me to get my paycheck. Wow, red flag. That's a tough one though, because right, if you don't and this is this goes back to like in my case, I was not going to get married until we spent a bit of time together and truly knew each other, and we were very forthcoming when it came to finances. Right. I'm a I'm a strong proponent of you gotta live with the person before you marry the person, because
then you can see how they manage me. Right, And that's some huge thing when there's a dependency and you have to manage money because you know, you can obviously see how people hand the money if you're in separate spaces. But when you come together, when you come together, and I gotta depend on you to make sure these lights don't get cut off and my lights get it cut off. We have something talking about in the case of the irsum,
you know, yeah, that's tough to know. But for me, red flag because you could be burders, you could be drug chargers, you could be a whole lot of things. You don't beat taxivation. Capone couldn't
beat taxivation, right, yep, yep. And what's so scary is that there are twenty one of these and I would venture to say more than half half to do with financial or having another child and the person not knowing absolutely anything about another child, but the family knowing, like in that earlier example, the mom knowing but never saying anything. Yeah, and that's tough. I mean in the mom's case, I don't I would necessarily blame her. It's really not her business to tell oh, no, no, no,
it's just scary. It's just that again, you know that, because you know it's not her business. My mother will always always tell you if I'm doing certain things and she knows not right, she's she's gonna snitch like and she she she makes it clear and good. That's good. If I were in a space with another woman and my mother walked in and coffee, he's going to tell my wife, Yeah, that's good, because that's good because a lots of mothers would not. That's a whole another episode, but a
lot of mothers would not that. It just depends on on the type of people you're dealing with. And I think in those in those examples you've given, it's less about what happened and more about the fact that they were they were smart enough to make the right choice in not staying for it to happen to them, because so many people swear these things can't happen to him. Yes, you don't read it your for him talking about I didn't think it was me. Yeah, so yeah, that's so true. And even like
some of them, I don't even have to read the details. But basically, this one person said, Um, she got married, they went on a honeymoon, they had a great time, came back and somehow phone messages or some type of communication that her husband was communicating with another woman the whole time on their honeymoon, and that he kind of just settled to marry her,
but he had this whole other woman. And it's just like, I don't typically like to have the conversations of like why men cheat and things like that, because I think, one, that's just so overdone, and two what we talked about earlier, I'm not a man, so I'm not here to try to assess why men do something that they do, because obviously women do it too. But the question that most people always ask is why men
cheat. I don't really hear a lot of people asking why women cheat, right, I will say this, I think that men can only cheat if they have the opportunity to do so. And I think that because most men operate from a place of abundance and women operate from a place of scarcity, just because of how society is set up for things like marriage. Right, Like, a man, according to society, has to get on his knee and decide to propose to you, so that already gives him a leg up
as far as like is he going to choose you or not? And I know people probably don't want to think of it like that, right, But that's just the reality of what it is. If you believe in that. You have a lot of women that don't. They don't mind getting on their knee and proposing right to each his own. But I think that it just
makes it scary for women, especially millennials. Again, that's the demographic of this podcast, because I know so many beautiful women with great careers and great personalities and have all these great things about them, and they cannot meet a decent guy to save their life, or they meet a decent man or who they think is a decent man like this person, get married, have the wedding, all this and then find this out, which to me is even
worse because no, you have you know, families involved and finances involved in all of that. So, like, I don't know, I guess I would love to know your opinion as a married man and coming from a man like one, you know, is that something that you think women should be concerned about? And two is it just something that is kind of like you know, it's like luck of the draw, Like there's no way to really
tell who someone is until they show themselves. Um So, as a retired toxic human being at one point in life, I can I can comment on both sides of that, right. Um. I think in general, people always show some kind of sign as to who they are. It's just a matter of the other person recognizing and accepting that that sign. And and and I heavily lean on the accepting part, right because I know men and women that have made ten thousand excuses for why someone has done something that they know
in their heart that is not right. Right. They're like, oh, something such as this, or they were having a bad day, or yeah cool, but no, they just showed you their trash and you decided that you wanted to be a Gardasgeman. Right. Um, So you know, I think there are there are truly people that can hide you know, aspects of their personality pretty well, right, But you can only keep that up for so long. And I and I think if people are objective and truly
look at a situation for what it is. Um, you know, oftentimes you're able to avoid this. Not always because you've got some real crafty people out here, but oftentimes we just choose to, you know, interpret things the way that either our environment has taught us to interpret them or what you know, this this vision of how things should be that we hope. We
all, you know, make up when we start these relationships. We all do it, you know, we all want it to be you know, like you know who the Huxtables, and we want things to be great. And and the Huxtables weren't even like the Hostables. It was a team right, right, exactly exactly what I mean, just just just the characters themselves. You know. It's they're often used as like the top tier example of
you know, a black right. So everyone has these these these thoughts that they go into these situations with, and oftentimes that clouds your judgment um things things that you know, you if you saw it with your friend, you'd be like, yo, that's that's that's not right, and that run run fast. But then you're in you're in a situation yourself, and you're like, well, you know that's not what they met. You know, that's
not you know, so you make excuses for you We've been there. We've all been there, absolutely, um, So you know, I think that's a part of it. And you know what, interesting, interestingly enough, that is a perfect segue into what I mentioned earlier that I wanted to talk about. Right, So, there is this how would I call it Um, there's something called the halo effect. Have you heard of it? Okay? So for those of you out there that don't know, um, the
halo effect was first recognized by an American psychologist named Edward Thorndyke. I think his name is in like nineteen twenty so this has been around, right, And basically, according to Psychology Today dot com, this is their defin nition. The halo effect involves people over relying on first impressions. It can lead to poor judgments and affect choices, for example, when recruiting new employees or
choosing a romantic partner. And it goes on to say that it's basically a type of cognitive bias in which our overall impression of a person influences how we feel and think about their character. And one of the examples they use is very relatable for me. It's scary. So they use an example to say, you create your overall impression of the person right based on one specific trait.
Right, So for example, you say, oh, you know, he or she is so nice, and that now impacts your evaluations of them moving forward, right, And because they're nice, maybe that means they're also smart, or because they're smart. That means that the nice. So basically, you take the perception of a single trait and carry it over to how you perceive other aspects of that person. And what's scary about that is, if you think about it, it's giving very much how to attract a narcissist
volume one, you know. And it's funny. Oddly enough, I have received a lot of messages on Instagram asking me to do an episode on narcissism. So I'm thinking of it, but you know, I want to make sure that I either have someone that's an expert and really knows what they're talking about, because I feel like the word is also thrown around and used incorrectly. But anyway, back to the halo effect, I think it's scary in a way that it could make you a target for or to attract narcissists.
So I just wanted to know your thoughts on it. Obviously you said you've heard of it already, but what your thoughts are on that? So I agree that that's the thing. The example I'll use is, right, the the average guy that gets the really hot girl. Okay, you get this, this this wonderfully attractive woman that you probably don't think you deserve necessarily or can't figure out how you got or even if you do, right, this
person's looks, immediately you make assumptions about this person's character. Right, You're like, oh, she's too pretty to do that. What do you mean she has to be nice or you know, or or you're blinded Yeah, or you're blinded by that, right. Um, And like you said, you use that or even even in even in the example, you gave up the person being nice. Nice nice people. Nice people can be jerked nice, right. Nice people can can have horrible habits. Nice people can have,
you know, terrible communication skills. Right. These are key things that will make or break a relationship. Ye. So you know, because you're nice, I assume that your intentions are always good when they may not be or you know, so so I definitely think the halo effect. I think
we all experience it. Um, we absolutely go into a lot of these these relationships with that bias, especially in that quote unquote honeymoon period when you guys are just starting to kick it and you know, you you're you're just learning about each other, so everyone's putting their best foot forward. Yeah, right, absolutely, Now let me ask you this though. Do you think the halo effect can ever be like a positive thing or is it always a
bias that distorts our perception or basically our perception of others. Well, I think I don't think it's a I don't think it's always negative, right, because giving someone the benefit of the doubt, no matter what it's based on, could work out to be a good thing. I think it becomes a negative thing when it, you know, takes your perception of all of the
other surrounding things. So if you're looking at it and all you're hyper focused on is that thing, without paying attention to these five things that are happening over here. You know, once it starts to cloud that judgment, that's when it becomes negative. But I don't think there's anything wrong with saying, you know, this person is nice. I don't really think they you know, meant to do this or you know, and I don't think this is
necessarily their character. Yeah, you know, giving better a doubt. I don't think it's bad for that. It's it's when you really start to you know, it starts to really cloud your judgment and you know, and you start to not listen to that gut feeling that is oftentimes right because you're like, oh, they're waiting, but they're so nice. You know, they made me cookies all all that. You know, how could they do such
a thing. Yeah, well you you missed the part where they were doing X, Y and Z to the waiter, or they were mean to you know, their sibling over here, or they don't call their mother, or they don't you know, like all of these different things that you're missing out
on because you're just like, well, they're so nice. Yep. And it's it's interesting because I gave the example of you know, relationship wise, but all the time thinking of it, I think the halo effect can also be a factor in toxic masculinity and other harmful like societal or cultural norms that
affect men, like we were talking about earlier. So like, for example, you know, are men who conform to certain stereotypes like being physically strong or emotionally stoic more likely to be seen as good or desirable by other people. Potentially, right, it has the potential to to um, you know, affect all types of relationships. So it's not just necessarily you know, a you know, a relationship of you know, love interests or who have
you. It can be friendships. You know, sometimes you don't see that this friend secretly hates on you because they're always down to go hang out. That that's probably it. That's probably the number one thing I would say people miss, right, that friend that's always is always ready to go and they
you think they're the writer. You miss, You miss those small comments, you miss when they're not when they're not cheering for you when they should be chearing for you, right, you miss you miss those little subtle signs of this person I really liked me, you know, they just they like to hang out, but they're not really having my best interests at heart. So, you know, I think it can translate into work, It can translate
into many different avenues. That definitely, definitely, And so I guess I just wanted to share some of the recommended ways that psychology today says to minimize the halo effects, because, as you said, it can show up in many different aspects of our life. So even if we have it done pat for relationships, we might not for you know, work relationships. Maybe it's just our interpersonal relationships. So they have three recommended ways to minimize the halo
effect, and that is to be aware. And they said this might involve you know, noticing those biases and you know, certain impressions. Basically what you said that people leave on you and really take heed to that, you know, just just have your awareness really up and really know or be aware
of what's going on in your surrounding. So that doesn't just mean like look left and look right right, but like you said, pay attention to the things that they're saying, but even more so, pay attention to the things that they're doing their actions. Right. The second one is to slow down, and essentially it's just basically saying like take your time, you know, don't rush to get to know someone. Don't rush to maybe choose a certain
candidate for your company. If you're doing interviews and you want a lot of people, don't just rush to pick someone because they want the job so much.
Don't rush to day to a guy just because he's attracted to you, right, because it might be a thing where you're just like a check on his list, like Okay, he got you, and then what and you're now head over heels for him, right, So slow down And the last one be systematic and basically they're saying that you should try to use analytical reasoning skills and just you know, have a if you have a list, right, And the list is a whole other thing, because some people have a
quote unquote unrealistic list. But again that's for another time, because what's realistic to you may not be realistic to somebody else, right, and vice versa. But I think everybody has a list of like absolute no nos, like there's no compromise, and if it's something to do with someone's character, I
support that, right. So one of the examples they give is if you are dating or getting to know somebody and you realize that they're a little bit aggressive, right, and you think, well, maybe in this long term relationship, I don't know what that's going to cause. It's probably going to cause a lot of issues. Like any type of irrational behavior should be like, you know, an army of red flags to you, because if they're
like that, no, it's only going to get worse. So even if they look like Barsko Joe or whoever your celebrity crush is, it goes back to awareness, like be aware of that whatever they're showing you in the beginning, what's the saying whatever is the issue in the beginning usually ends up being the problem in the end or something like that. Yeah, something something like that. But I get where you're going with it. Yeah, yeah,
so so yeah, I just wanted to share those I would agree. I mean it all for me, the way I approach most things in life is being objective. Right. I don't necessarily keep a list. I definitely do have. I mean I have had a list in the past, but um, I just I look at things for exactly what they are, right. I try to control any kind of you know, preconceived notions about things. Um, I kind of comes right, And if you are aware and objective,
you know, I think that's starting. That starts to lessen your chances of falling victim to some of this stuff. All right, Yeah, she's cute, but let me just say, she's just a person, right, Right, She's a person with a nice face. Right, how is she asking? Person? Did she just yell at the waiter? Again? I use the waiter thing as an example a lot because I'm one of those people. The way you treat people in public, it says a lot about you.
So I definitely pay attention to that. You brought up the aggression thing, you know, like, yeah, some some situations call for aggression, but like, let me objectively look at why you are aggressive in this situation and how that could potentially apply to me. Yeah. So yeah, those psychologists they got it right. They know they know what they're doing, right. Okay, So finally I am going to ask you five random rapid fire questions. And the rules are you have to say the first thing that comes
to mind. You cannot go back, you cannot pass. You have to say exactly what comes to mind. And I like to tell my guests the first answer is always the right answer. Oh okay, all right, shoot, all right. Question number one, Name the last song? I guess this is not really a question, but name the last song you listen to Want Some Needs by Drake and a Little Baby. Oh I love that song. What is the most important value that you have instilled in your daughters that
you hope they take with them throughout their life. Honesty and accountability. M love that. If you could tell thirteen year old Donald one thing, what would you tell him? Pick up a camera, like, keep it in your hand and practice it and some ads golf clubs love that. Um, what makes you laugh the hardest life. Yeah, life funny, man, Like it's it's so unpredictable and you have so little control over it that it is to me one of the funniest things. Like life is just life just
does its own thing. Life is gonna lie. Okay, And finally, I want you to complete this sentence. I prefer to say it like this then asking as a question. As a form of self care, I uh, take the time I need away from like the noise. Um. I make it a point to find every day. If it's ten minutes, if it's an hour, like my wife gets on me, I'll just I'll sit out on the balcony for thirty minutes after we get our toddler to sleep and just I'm just there by myself quiet. I just I need that time.
I need that time to to to think about the day. I needed to decompress. I needed to just sit there and not do anything. Yeah, it's important, Yeah, for sure, for sure. Okay, So before you go, I wanted to know if you can share with everyone where they can find you, purchase your photography and all that good stuff. So I am on Instagram, Ghost Gone Wild. Um. I also have a site where you can purchase artwork. You can book photography services at Donald Darling dot
com. Um, you can find me there. And yeah, those are those are the two main things. And if you're in SoCal Or you might run into me with a camera one day. I love that. Well, thank you so much for coming and sharing such valuable insight on a myriad of things. You know, we talked a little photography and little halo effect, a little that now see, you know, a mix of everything, which
I think is really indicative of our friendship. And I just think it's really great to have men on here and to talk about just things that, like you said, men don't really get to talk about, but particularly men in our culture in the diaspora, right. And it's fun, it's jovial. It's no man versus woman anything. But I love the answers that you gave,
and I love that they were more they were your perspective. But you're not telling anyone what they should do, right, You're giving your perspective, And hopefully somebody will hear this and either say, oh my gosh, I think the same way or WHOA, I never thought about it like that.
So I just really appreciate your insight and you know, you're sharing different aspects of your life and especially the part of you know, just trying new things golfing, mountain biking, things that maybe twenty years ago you would have never thought to do or would have laughed at the idea of you doing that,
and know you find that it brings you so much peace and joy. So hopefully even that, if it's just even that will inspire somebody man or woman, child, dog, whoever, to try something new, you know, And I love that. I love that for you, I love that for our listeners, I love that for everybody. Well, thank you for having me. I love the podcast and enough to hear the share my perspective. And you know, like you said, hopefully somebody gets something out of it.
If not, you can totally say I'm crazy. It's okay.