The Hidden Champions Behind Every Successful Low Voltage Project

From copper to fiber , standards to innovation , this is the show that keeps you plugged into success . So grab your tools , turn up the volume and let's talk cabling .

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Well , you get to ask your favorite RCDD and you know that's me , don't even try to pretend like I'm not your questions on installation certification , design , project management . Did I say estimation ? I'll say it again just in case and even career path questions . But I can hear you now , chuck , I'm driving my truck at 6 pm on Wednesday nights .

I don't want to get into an accident . Relax , I record them and you can watch them at your convenience if you go to the website letstalkcablingcom . And also , while this show is free and will always remain free , if you find value in this content , would you click on that QR button right there ? You can buy me a cup of coffee .

You can even schedule a 15-minute one-on-one call with me , after hours , of course , where you get to answer all those questions . I know some of you might be thinking specifications , blah . How exciting can that really be ?

Let's be honest , but let me tell you , the knowledge and insights that these experts can bring can transform your project from not just a good project , but to an exceptional project . I want you to imagine this You're in the middle of a massive install and a spec detail catches your eye Now .

It could save your project time , it could cut costs , it might even prevent a major snag . But who's the wizard behind the curtain ensuring that every spec is not only rock solid but also aligned with the latest tech and the latest standards ? That's right . It's your specifications engineer , and today we're talking to one of the best in the field .

Today , our guest is going to take us behind the scenes , into the world of showing us of how spec and engineers support from every project manager to even technicians . Help them navigate that sea of options , finding the most reliable , the most cost-effective solutions .

We'll discuss how manufacturers' resources can be leveraged for better project designs who doesn't want a better design ? Why estimation accuracy is not an accident it's done through due diligence and how to keep up the ever-evolving standards in connectivity and cabling .

So stick around , because if you're a project manager , you might be wanting to sharpen your edge as an estimator , you might be wanting to boost your accuracy . Or if a technician , you might be facing those unpredicted on-site challenges . And for this episode today , he's going to have a little bit of something for everything .

So welcome to the show , mr Roy Chamberlain . How are you doing my friend ? Very good , very good . Thank you for having me , chuck . My pleasure . So why don't you , since it's your first time on the show ? Why don't you give us the 30-second view ? Who is Roy and why should the audience listen to you ?

I live in New Hampshire , I grew up in the industry in this area in the Boston region and , yeah , I had a contractor background for about 20 years before coming to Leviton and I spend my time supporting and educating architects , engineers , end users and supporting the local reps and just contributing all around .

And basically you know what I do is I take the information that you know that we're downloaded here at Leviton , you know , from a broad base of professionals and experts from all kinds of organizations and you know we study and understand those specifics and the products and we take solutions right .

We kind of base everything , try to base everything , off of solutions and we can provide all kinds of support , including for estimation and design is , you know , cost-effective options , filling in the blanks on designs that might be incomplete and providing feedback on designs and specifications to be able to interpret exactly what the client might be looking for .

But one of the biggest complaints that I hear quite often is when they get the scope of work or the request for proposal , the RFP , how it's always wrong . And when I say wrong I mean like they list standards that are like three or four cycles old because somebody used copy and paste , or it's wrong and it doesn't meet .

It might meet codes but it doesn't meet standards . So how can a spec engineer help a person like a project manager or technician solve those kinds of issues ?

First of all , I do everything and my reps do everything we can to encourage engineers and consultants and end users to , you know , allow me , and you know the spec engineers , to be able to take a look at their specifications right and to write them right , to bring them up to

date , to make sure they have the latest and greatest standards and to critique them , to give them feedback on , you know , the methods and standards that they have implemented , because , just like you said , I would say , a good portion of specifications that are out there and it's difficult for the engineers and consultants .

They have a template and they're trying to dish out all these different details and a lot of times things get left over , right , things get left over from past and things in the templates may not get updated . So I do my best from that side to be able to have more cohesive and up-to-date specifications in the marketplace .

Cohesive and up-to-date specifications in the marketplace . But beyond that , distributors and contractors and other types of integrators , you know , will , they'll contact us and I will help them to interpret .

You know , the designs that they've put together , based on right , based on the drawings and the details that they put together based on right and based on the drawings and the details that they have , I'll help them to interpret to allow them to have either a full system to add the pieces or change the pieces that don't fit together and the fill in the blank .

So you know , when you read a specification , you kind of have to do that right , you have to read between the lines , right , to try to understand exactly what the client is looking for as the end solution . So we do a lot of work . There's so many , it's such a broad spectrum , but in a nutshell , that's how it works . Let's take a short break .

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It was a bullet plate and we always updated the code and standards on that , and then it was up to us to go through and make sure that we deleted out the section that didn't apply , changed the section that did apply , but that puts the onus on making sure that you I hate to say this proofread it , prove it before you send it , because nothing will destroy a

technician's or project manager's feeling in the field that this is a good design . If you're referencing a code that's three cycles old it's not even applied in that stadium or a standard .

That's the A version of the standard we're now up to like the E version of the standard Right that doesn't just harbor , you know , a feeling of , well , this is a great design if they're referencing all this old stuff , Right ? So yeah , if you're using bullet plates , I get it Absolutely . Just proofread it .

Or ask a spec engineer , like we're here to just make sure hey , make sure . It's lazy and it's hard to do because they're always changing around .

So the manufacturers , all the big manufacturers , they have resources to help improve projects and designs and stuff like that , to make sure that whoever the estimator , the project manager , selects the most cost-effective or most reliable solution .

What are some of those resources that contractors or , remember , these might be contractors who might be from a real small company to a large company ? What are some of those resources that contractors or these might be contractors who might be from a real small company to a large company ?

What are some of the resources that are available out there that they can use to make their jobs better ?

And then you know , and when you proofread the same thing you know after , before every project , before it goes out , you know it can it can all blur a little bit , right . So I think that's a tall order , right . So it kind of creates a situation where mistakes can kind of show up pretty easily .

So one of the resources we have and I'm sure other manufacturers and other entities in the industry have are solutions . So one of the things that we've done so I was on the spec writing team and I was responsible for the US-based solutions , right .

So we had one engineer who was doing the product specs and another engineer that was focusing on international and I was doing the solution . So I'd take those product specs and create the full solutions , right . And one of the things that we did that we've changed differently over the years is getting very specific as much as possible with each specification .

So instead of having one big boilerplate , now we're basing on solutions . So what technology are you trying to ? You know , what throughput do you need , what technologies , what applications are going to be run over your network ? Right , and so we have a category six , let's say a standard .

We'll have an enhanced category 6A standard that will focus on high category 6A standard that will focus on high technology , high POE . You know things like that and you know , in the end .

So not only do we have those templates that we try to share and allow engineers , you know , to kind of cannibalize that or to use them themselves , but we also have these solution briefs and solution sheets .

So one of the things Leviton has done , you know , within the last couple of years is we've created some global systems called Millennium , and they're systems that are from , you know , top to bottom cable , jacks , panels , all the different entities that go within that system , and they're global . So , let's say , you're in touch with a global client .

You know that's a good piece that can be used , but we also also just for the fact of having all the details in there . So you know , oh hey , this part goes with this part in order to accomplish this throughput , this level of PoE . You know all those types of things and the same thing on the fiber side , you know , and same thing on there .

So we really try to start with to gain , or if an end user or a project manager has the information as far as what they're trying to accomplish , as far as the types of devices and applications . You know we have solutions for all those things , but I really like the solution sheets that we create and the documents that we have for there .

We have it for a whole array of our different types of products and that's a great resource to make sure that you have all the little pieces that are included in there .

But the thing is they get their supplies and their materials from , like Amazon . And

my point is , if you stick with one of the big manufacturers , they have all the support structure out there for you . So again , like spec engineers and stuff like that , because if you call up Amazon and say , hey , can you help me design a data center , you know what you're going to get . Nothing , there's going to be silence , right .

So are all of the spec engineers I mean , are they all ? Are they like doctors ? Do they have specialties ? Or are all the spec engineers kind of like a generalist ?

But there's , you know , one of the things you know on top of speaking to engineers and reps and contractors on a daily basis . I don't think there's a day that goes by that I don't talk to . You know , one of our product managers or one of our applications engineers or one of my fellow spec engineers , and I know who to call for , whichever specialty it is .

So , yes , like you said , there could be . So for data centers . There's certain aspects of data centers that I understand very well . I spent thousands of hours in data centers , certain aspects I have a really good feel for . But then there's other technologies or newer technologies . You know we're up here in the Northeast , up in the Northeast we're not building .

There's not a lot of space , right that could you know . Electricity is expensive and things like that . You get a lot of those bigger data centers , let's say in the Southwest , northwest , you know in that area . So you know I might contact one of them for specific aspects if I see some similarity .

And , just like you said , we have our applications engineering department , our customers and reps , you know , basically can use that through customer service , but we use that as well and there are specific engineers , right professionals and experts that accommodate all those different entities , whether it be an extended distance requirement , whether it be residential right or

data center or any other type of , you know , specific area .

You know you had mentioned a resource or the benefit of using a larger firm . You know I see all of the quotes that come in and I try to take a look at , you know , every quote that comes in , especially if I , if I notice that it's , you know , from certain clients or things like that .

And and if I see , you know I'll , I'll take a peek at these , these documents just to just to see , hey , you know , how do these things fit together Right ? Are they missing something ? Does something not match up ? You know that way .

You know , hey , maybe the representative can reach out to the contractor or whoever's quoting that and just make sure that they're , you know , they're not making a mistake up front . And that happens a lot internally . You know we have internal kind of safeguards for , like , our OneReach system and for MTP , mpo , when those types of things come in .

We see a lot of that . I'll tell you if a spec engineer is not involved , you know there's a pretty significant percentage of bills and materials that come in to get priced that don't match up . You know whether it be polarity , whether it be . You know the gender on the MTPs . You know whether it be the matching up of the actual performance level .

So there's a lot of different things that get covered there when we can .

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And even though we partnered with them a lot , I still wasn't so familiar with their product line that I could tell you okay , well , if you're putting in these types of jacks , you have to use those kinds of phase plates and stuff like

that . And that's where the value of having someone like a spec engineer being able to kind of look over that . If an estimator puts out a bid or sends a price to a distribution , can they request that a spec engineer look over it ?

Or they're looking for , they want to see that this is what they're trying to accomplish . Can you guys take a look at what they've come up with and let us know if there's a better way to do it , right ? So , yes , that does happen .

But you know , you actually brought up something that one time that I used was we had gotten a bid and it was for it was a federal government job , because at the time I was an estimator in DC and it was spec'd out a different manufacturer than we were aligned with .

So you would think , oh well , great , I can't , I can't bid that right , because they're just picking out . You know xyz manufacturer , not abc manufacturer . But in most of your government bids , especially the federal government bids , there's this term in there that says or equivalent . Okay , great , but I'm not . You know I spec ABC manufacturer , not XYZ .

So I don't know which parts XYZ directly correlate with manufacturer ABC , because I'm having a hard time keeping up with my manufacturer , not the other four out there . Is that something they can rely on a spec engineer to do ?

So a lot of times when people do equals you know distributors I'm sure that they have their own lists , right , and a lot of manufacturers will have a list oh , this jack equals this jack , right , and this cable equals this cable . This jack equals this jack right and this cable equals this cable .

But when you get , when you drill down to solution-based right and you try to accommodate other things that are just more important than just the jack and more important than just the cable , right , it's the whole entity .

So , and it depends , it depends what kind of you know , when you mentioned small contractors , a lot of small contractors gain their success and start their businesses because they have relationships right . And when you have a relationship , you know , sometimes you can take things to another level .

I mean I always think that when I work with any of the end users that I work with or I mean it doesn't matter if it's a contractor , end user whoever I'm working with , I always consider myself to be part of their team , right ? I'm part of their business success . I'm part of the same team , right .

So I'm trying to think from their perspective and do things according to how it's going to benefit them in the long run , but also the end user , right . And so there can be a lot of added value to , you know , full solutions . Full solutions that have , you know , contractor training programs and warranties .

But beyond just the jack and the cable , hey , maybe they want it to be US made .

Maybe they're looking for solutions that are green , that have green initiatives or sustainability , right , you know , maybe they're looking to work with an organization that prioritizes , you know , carbon neutral and green initiatives , and maybe they're looking for a solution that they can spread across beyond the United States , right .

So a solution where , hey , I can have consistency and you talked about it , chuck we're asked to do more and more right With fewer people , right and less time , to do more and more right with fewer people right in less time .

So a lot of these IT management group or facilities groups welcome a solution that can spread across the globe , with really minor tweaks that are necessary when you go into the different regions .

We're all part of the same team first of all , so we interact with spec engineers that are out of Europe and other areas , but we also have professionals that are on the TIA boards and they go to the different meetings and get downloaded on this information , right , and so what they do is they download us .

So we meet with product management on a regular basis . We meet , the spec engineer team , meets ourselves weekly at a minimum .

We'll spend days , sometimes studying and being taught , studying and being taught up-to-date technologies for things like AI , data center and extended distance , 5G and wireless and all the different technologies and all the latest standards , and we usually know what standards are going to be coming out right before , before most people .

So that's what I really try to do is is , when I meet with my engineers , I try to educate them on on what's coming up . You know , because you know it doesn't matter if you're a contractor or an engineer or a distributor or what entity you are . Our number one goal is to try to not make a mistake right .

So , you know , I try to use that leverage you know , of the information that we're given and all the information that's spread throughout our team to be able to give that incentive , to maintain , you know , a close , consistent communication with all the people that I support , you know , in my region and outside of my region , because I want them to be successful ,

right , and it's very easy when you think about it , when a design is put together , the pre-design , when we're starting to think about , okay , they're digging dirt and they're starting to decide what kind of technology they want to put in the building .

By the time that technology gets in that building , I don't care if it's a K through 12 school , right , you know , you're talking 18 months , sometimes multiple years , right ? So you know , we need to understand what that migration path is , right ? So , okay , is this technology going to be obsolete by the time the students come into their school , right ?

You know , or the people come into their building or into their data center . Are the pathways ? Are the ? You know , is there a migration path to be able to accommodate the newer technologies ? And you know , I've always believed , even when I was on the contractor side , that it's not always . It's not even usually .

It's not always more expensive to plan for the future . It's just a different way of you have to just think differently , right ? You have to think in that format in order to allow it to happen .

If you estimate a project let's say putting in 100 cables and they're Cat 6 , and then you re-estimate that exact same project putting in Cat 6A , it's not double the price .

You're only really looking at the difference between the cost of the cable and the cost of the connectivity products , which I want to say it's been a while since I've estimated , but I seem to remember it being 15% , maybe , maybe 20% at the most . And it's a lot easier to pull cable during new construction as opposed to pulling cable six years down the road .

When you're in a call center and there's people making calls trying to do sales and you're trying to open up ceiling tiles above people's head , well you know what . That labor is not going to be the same as it was on a new construction site . So future-proofing is a really good thing .

We were talking about accuracy as estimators and one of my when I was an estimator , one of the , whenever I get the phone call . You know what I'm talking about when I say the phone call right . The first thing that would go through my mind uh-oh , what'd I miss ?

So accuracy is a huge priority , especially because , again , a lot of people listening to the show are smaller companies where one small mistake could really bankrupt their company . So how can working with a large manufacturer improve the accuracy of those takeoffs and maybe even the labor estimates ?

I mean in general , it's , it's the response . You know the the , the contractor has the responsibility . The engineer or contractor . Sometimes , you know specs come out with counts in them , right , but you know in the end , if , if you're counting triangles , right , you know that's , that's the responsibility of the estimator .

Now , when I was on the contractor side , you know I would usually , especially for larger projects , have things proofread , you know . So , hey , this guy went through all these drawings . Why don't we have someone else go through those drawings , right , and double check manufacturer standpoint ?

Like I said , there's , you know , if you send a bill of materials in , there isn't much that we're going to do besides , take a look and see if anything stands out right , because we get dozens of quotes a day . You know hundreds right , sometimes , and you know everybody has their purpose .

But if there were , if the request is is asked for um , and again , you know , uh , hey , can you take a look at this ? You know what , what do you think about this solution based on this spec and these drawings ? Um , well , that's definitely something that I've done for for people .

Uh and um , if , if I were on that contractor side , I would want , yeah , the most knowledgeable person to be to kind of look over and proofread what I've put together . You know , it usually doesn't take as long when somebody's done all the work . Now you're just making sure that it makes sense , right .

At first , their first year or two , they're rocking and rolling because they're doing veterinary offices and small stuff like that , and then all of a sudden they get their first opportunity for a I don't want to say it doesn't have to be a big contract , but let's just say a big , big customer .

And a lot of times they'll say something like the prints have to be stamped by an RCDD . Right ? Are spec engineers RCDDs ? That's the first question . And the follow-up to that is is that something that a spec engineer would do for a contractor ?

So we try to keep ourselves in between the engineers , the contractors , the distributors , end users , rather than too much on one , you know , get too much involved , right , because now , now it just well . First of all , that's not how we're set up , right , and that's that's not our role .

But as far as spec engineers being RCDDs , yes , yes , for the most part , a spec engineer is going to be an RCDD . If they're not an RCDD already , they're in training for one and it's going to be an MBO . You know , it's going to be a business objective for them to meet , you know , within their first year , that's for sure .

So have the technician , give me a call directly and I might be able to answer them . And that's the same thing that we do with our customer service .

So when you call into customer service , which has nothing to do with the spec engineers , but at Leviton , you know our customer service department , you know they nothing to do with the spec engineers , but at Leviton , our customer service department , they want to talk to the people on the ground who are there , right , they want to get as much detail , especially

if it's a concern or something where it seems like there's a Leviton solution or product that's not accommodating something or it's not working . Because there's two reasons One reason we want to know if there's an issue with our solution or our product , right , but on top of that we have to be able to identify and we don't want to waste anybody's time .

So , absolutely , I give my card out to technicians and they're welcome to call me at any time . I always tell them that , um , I spent a lot of time , uh , being the the last one in line to . You know , if nobody could figure it out , you know I I had to do , I had to do that .

So I have a lot of good experience with that um you know , a lot of people don't get that , roy .

But I'll tell you now , your technicians are your next project managers , your next estimators . So you know , you set yourself

relationships right . So you might be giving your cards out to technicians because you meet them at a Bixie conference or whatever , and so they see the value . Hey , if I can keep in touch with this guy , he can help me with the design for whatever .

But when that guy becomes a project manager or an estimator or maybe even a you know , not an office manager , but an operations manager , invest in relationships , right ? So last question what are three questions that you think that a contractor should be asking a manufacturer ? But they often overlook it and overlook it .

And again , I can't speak for all the manufacturers or all the people , but you know , if we're given the information that you're looking for to accomplish , you know , is it cost , is it technology ? Whatever , I think the full solution , if you're talking about responding to a bid or creating a job , is one question . The other is what's the latest technology ?

What are people putting in out there , right ? So I'm talking to . You know I'm in a pretty broad region , right , you know I go all the way from . I cover all of New England , all of upstate , new York and Pittsburgh , right , and I interact and I'm involved with projects that are all over the country and sometimes all over the world .

So , being able to understand , hey , what technology is out there ? What are people putting in ? Are they putting in Wi-Fi 5 ? Are they putting in 6 , wi-fi 6E ? Which direction are they going in with technology ?

And the third question would be you know how can I be more successful with , you know , obtaining end users , right , being the contractor for a large university or a large medical conglomerate right , or a large manufacturer , whatever it is .

You know we spend a lot of time again , that's the work that we do and we align with our contractors and we want them to be able to have success , just like you mentioned the technician . The technician is the face right .

But it's like , well , if our contractors aren't talking to us about how they're going to be successful and acquire end users , well , you know , then , then that doesn't , that doesn't help us either way . You know what I mean . So it's a that one helps both people , right , and I think vice versa .

You know , I mean , if , if I know a contractor that's successful at a , at a at a certain end user or a client that I want to get involved , when I'm involved with , I want to ask them hey , how can I be successful here ? You're successful here , how can I be successful here ? And I think it goes both ways .

So , depending on where you live , you know , you can click on our website and go to the resources area and you'll be able to get in touch with you . Know , get the contact with a local spec engineer .

just you know can you get it by . One of the things I hear all the time is we bought this cable off of Amazon and then when I look at the box it says CCA . Oops , yeah .

We're interacting with hundreds of contractors and people in the industry . So reach out whenever we can help your job to be more successful or easier .

Until next time , keep those cables clean , your standards high and your future bright . Let's Talk Cabling empowering the industry , one connection at a time .