Exploring Union vs Non-Union Work in the ICT Industry: An Unbiased Analysis

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So this week or I should technically say weekend I was at the Nica show in Philadelphia and that got me to thinking , you know , because there's this old age argument that happens every single time , and on the internet , and sometimes it happens on job sites too .

Union versus non-union , union's better , non-union's better oh my gosh , a bunch of girls fighting amongst each other all the time . It's one of the hottest topics that we have in our industry . People are extremely passionate about their choice , whether it's union or non-union .

Almost to the point of losing civility , almost to the almost to a Will Smith kind of moment at the Grammys , kind of right . I mean , it can be really , really dangerous sometimes . So today's episode of let's Talk Cabling , I am going to be talking about union versus non-union in general statements .

Okay , now , as I'm going through the stuff in this podcast , you might think , well , check , I know a guy who could , I'll do this union guy , I know union guy , I do that non-union guy . That's a specific . I'm talking in general points of views and things that I have seen from being in this industry for 40 plus years .

Okay , so I'm not talking about a specific person . You may be knowing I'm talking general things that I've noticed trends from being in this industry for a long time , as a 40 years . But you know a lot of people may not know this . I've said it several times on a show , but you might be a new listener .

I've worked both as a tech in the field and as a manager . As a tech in the field , I've been both union and non-union both , and as a manager , I've managed both union and non-union workforces . So my skill set I think it brings me the ability to have this conversation .

Just to show you how controversial this subject is , I put out a call for people to have a round table discussion Union versus non-union . I could not get enough people to agree to come on at the same time and be civil to each other and have this conversation . That's how this could be pretty nasty sometimes .

So what are my goals for this episode of the podcast ? Right , because I've been doing a lot of interviews lately . This is the first face-to-face talk we've had in a while . My goal is not to sell you to become union . It's not to sell you to become non-union . My goal today is really just to help you explain what I have seen over my career .

Now , another person's 40-year journey might be different and , by the way , if you agree or disagree with anything that I say , make sure you put it in the comments . Let's have a conversation . Let's have this so we can have a good conversation . So what are my goals for this episode . My goal for this episode is not to sell you to become a union member .

My goal for this episode is not to sell you to become a non-union member , but rather my goal today is rather to explain what I have witnessed over my 40-year career in this industry . I'm just trying to give you some fodder so you can make an educated decision about whether you want to go union or non-union .

Now , if you have a question or comment or you think I'm wrong about something , I ask that you put that in the comments below . But I asked two things . First One , make sure you listen to this episode all the way through before you comment . Okay , don't go straight to the comments . That's wrong . You can tell me you're wrong , I'm fine with that .

But make sure you listen to the entire episode first , okay , before you do that . And then the second thing that I ask that you do is when you do it , when you post that comment , do it civilly . Remember , let's have an open debate about this . It's the only debate when both sides can have their points expressed and the other person has listening .

So let's talk about the union benefits first . Okay , so the union benefits . The biggest one , I think , is job security right . Union members often will enjoy a greater job security because of their collective bargaining agreements that their union has negotiated for them , right ? So what that does is it protects them against arbitrary layoffs and terminations .

This happens with a lot of companies , you know . If they got a layoff coming up where they lost a contract , they sometimes will just get rid of a bunch of people , and sometimes maybe not ethically . So a union will kind of protect you against .

That which you have in the union is called seniority-based job retention and what that does is means , as you have you been the union longer than other people . It gives you kind of a piece of mind that knows that you're going to be the person that gets to go out first .

You're the person who's going to be signed that dream job first , and the more senior people are typically going to be the ones who are retained when you get that retraction in the workforce being a part of the union also , a lot of non-union people are not going to like this when they hear this Union installers typically earn higher wages .

I will say that again Union installers typically install , typically install . Union installers typically will earn higher wages . Now , that's just not me saying that that there's a report that came out from the Bureau of Labor Statistics in January 2023 .

And in that report now , for those who may not know who the BLS is , that's a government agency that monitors the workforce , right ? So this is a government agency who takes data points from all across the all across the country , all different workforces , right ?

So , talking specifically about union versus non-union , a non-union person , according to the BLS report , earns 85% less than the union person does 85% less . Now , if you want to see that , that report , I'm going to put a link in the comments below .

Another great thing is when you , when you go to work for a union , you have a comprehensive benefits package , right , and that's going to include stuff like your health insurance , retirement plans , pay , time off and the the great thing is is that benefit package stays the same .

Whether you're working for contractor A or contractor B or contractor C , the benefit package is always the same . A non-union workforce , that's going to vary by by the company that you work for .

So , being part of the union , because you have a group of people who've come together , collective bargaining agreements to negotiate those better rates , and it's going to be no matter who you work with that . That isn't the advantage that the union has . Another good benefit for working for a union is their training and apprenticeship programs .

Unions invest heavily in their apprenticeship programs . Right , it's called the JATC . I can't , I can't remember what the JATC means off top of my head the acronym guy , right , I'm pulling a blank on an acronym . If you know what JATC means , put it in the in the comments below . Now , the now I've dealt with several JATCs .

As a matter of fact , I told you I was at the NECA event . I met I don't know God , it seemed like 200 people at this place when I was in Philadelphia and I met probably about 20 to 25 JATC students and probably 10 JAT instructors .

And you know me , I'm a chatty , cathy , I've got , I got to get talking to them and I started asking about , you know , the low voltage portions of the stuff and what the JATC programs are like .

And I kind of knew this before because when I used to manage crews , especially in the northeast , I knew about their training programs and they have an excellent training program . There are some benefits to the , to the , the apprenticeship programs that the union is going to offer you . Number one they are tuition free .

You don't have to take out a student loan . You earn as you learn . That's the beautiful thing about that . Now , in the non union world , you might be training and working a day job at the same time , earning while you learn . But a lot of people also will sometimes get their training before they go work for a company .

If you do that route , you're not going to get paid while you're training . So if you're in the JATC program , you're being taught and you're making , and that that already goes towards your retirement . So that is an advantage there too .

In the non union world , sometimes when you do training , you have to enter to what's called a training agreement with your , with your customer , with your , with your employer , and what that means is they might send you to a class to learn you know , fiber optics or bonding and grounding , or whatever .

They might send you to that class and that class may cost two , three , four $5,000 in exchange for that , and they typically they're not going to make you pay for that class , but what they will do is they make you sign that training agreement , and what that training agreement is going to say is that you will stay with the company for a period of time in

exchange be able to get that training for free , and if you happen to leave before that time , then you have to pay back a prorated amount of that cost of that training back to your employer .

So I'm not a big fan of training agreements , but I understand why they're there and I understand why they're put there because there are some some installers and technicians out there that are just not quite as ethical as others .

Now it also takes an employer to get burnt once and then all the good people who would absolutely stay afterwards are getting nailed by that thing . Now again , was again was at the NECA event . Like I said , I talked to the JATC instructors and the students because that's one thing I loved about the thing .

On Sunday they shipped in not one , not two , but I counted four bus loads of people in the JATC programs from all the local hall union halls everywhere around and they got to come to the , to the , to the NECA event , and they got to walk the exhibit hall of sharing floor and they got to see .

I wish when I was an apprentice that I had the opportunity to do that , so they really invest heavily in there . There are other training options as well that have apprenticeship programs . If you look up IEC , they have local chapters all over the country .

They have one in Chesapeake , one in Tampa and a bunch of other places and they also have a Mimic , that JATC program . Now this training costs can lead to higher expertise and better career advancement . You know , because you're in that union , you've gone through that JATC training . You also again have that collective bargaining power .

There is power in numbers , power in numbers , absolutely . So the unions are going to negotiate collectively on the behalf of their members . Now we can get into that whole conversation .

This could be a drawback and a benefit at the same time , because when you start getting into the union reps and the unions negotiating on behalf of the workforce , you know there's politics involved there and there's a lot of stuff that goes on that people like and lots of the people don't like .

But when you look at the outcome , it's going to lead to more improved , better working conditions . It's going to improve , to fair compensation for the work that those technicians are doing and also safer job environments , because the union absolutely has a voice in shaping that workplace policies because they're there as a group .

It's not one person saying , hey , we should do this because it's safer . No , it's the , it's the unionist , the tens of thousands of people saying look , if you want to come work on your job site , then you have to have these safety precautions set in place . You know , your number one job as an installer is to come home safely every night , every night .

Now there are drawbacks to unions . Unions are required to pay regular dues Absolutely , and that does take a bite out of some of your your take on pack .

Now it might to some people that might be not an in sick of it number , and others who are the the early part of the careers , who are struggling with the new family that might be to them , might be a big number . So you do have to pay your dues . Now how much of the dues you can be paying it depends by the union and by the local chapter .

And one thing I found , when it especially comes to the local chapters and union dues because , remember , I told you I used to work as a , as a union installer one point we were low voltage in the northern Virginia area .

Now we were actually rolled up into the IBEW , the International Brotherhood of Electric Workers , not the CWA , the Communication Workers of America , and because the local hall was . The majority of them were electricians . They pretty much ignored us low voltage guys . We had very little input on anything from from voting into things , and they were just .

We didn't think about sending us information sometimes . So that was a drawback of being a low voltage person in IBEW . Now again , that was 20 years ago and things might have changed since then , but they might not have either . Another disadvantage to working as a union person on the field is strict work rules , strict work rules . Think of it this way HOAs .

Some people flourish in HOAs because they have the rules your grass can't be more than two inches tall , you can't park your car front end , you have to have the trash cans out , but you can't leave them out past 4pm . Some people flourish in those kinds of environments where you're told what to do with all those rules . You have to absolutely flourish in them .

I don't . That's why I don't live in an HOA . Union jobs are going to come with those same strict types of rules and regulations that they have to be followed and because of that , that's going to , that's going to limit the flexibility that you have when it comes to doing your , your job tasks .

You might not be able to think outside of the box because of those strict rules . Now , as I said , some people flourish in those kinds of environments , some people don't . Another disadvantage I feel that comes to being a union member is you have less flexibility in your work assignments , and what I mean by that is the .

The work assignments are usually sent out based on seniority , not necessarily who's the best . You might have a , you might have a project come out where they want some fiber optic run and you got a guy who is more senior than you Never touch fiber and that's all you've done is fiber . Well , they get the first option because they have more seniority .

So that's kind of one of the one of the bad things that you can come across , you know , when dealing with sometimes some unions as well , and that can also can also hurt you for , as far as you know , trying to even pick shifts if you work in second shift , third shift , well , the seniority base installers they're going to want first shift .

They don't want to work nights typically , so they're going to . You're going to get stuck with the leftovers again and it's going to be frustrating too , because it's not necessarily going to be the person with the most strongest skills . It could be again the person who's going to have the most seniority .

Now let's talk about non-union installers . Let's first talk off about the benefits of non-union .

So again , non-union installers have more say in the types of projects that they get the work on and the tasks that they're going to perform , because generally there's a little bit better communication sometimes with a non-union workforce and management and a lot of times they'll sit down and say , look , you know , hey , john , even though he's been around five years

and I've only been around two years , he's never done fiber . I have , oh , and at that point the contractor is going to say , well , I'm going to put the person who's already done the fiber so you can have that conversation .

But again , that's on an individual basis , not as a collective basis , and that gives you the ability to maybe even try to sweet talk yourself into getting put on that project that you really like or doing tasks that you really like , and that could lead to a more satisfying career because you get to work on all the really cool stuff .

It also gives you the opportunity to potentially earn higher earnings through commission . So some non-union companies will actually give bonuses to some of their and some solid and technicians . We used to do that a lot with our guys . We told them look , you have X amount of hours to get all the cable pulled .

If you get it pulled in less hours , we'll figure out how many hours you saved , how much money you saved for the money , and we'll divide a certain percentage up and give that back to you as a bonus because you beat the budget .

You can't do that with union , because you got that collective burden or it's already in place and so it's going to be , and it may even be tied to performance as well too . So if you have a project where you didn't , you installed a thousand cables and there was nothing wrong with any of the cables you tested , they might give you a bonus for that as well .

So there are because of those bonuses there are , there is potential not are , but is potential for you to be able to make more money than a , than a union person . But it can be kind of challenging to try to find a company that does that . They are out there .

They are out there and those are going to be the companies that are tracking their labor and material budgets real closely . There's a lot of communication companies out there that just they'll say here's the job , go do it . They don't tell you how many hours you have to do that job in how many days you have to do that job in right .

Those kind of companies aren't going to do that kind of stuff because they don't , they're not tracking it , they don't know , they're clueless . But the ones that do track those budgets , make or are going to be the ones that are going to be more likely to give you a bonus because you beat the budgets .

There's also fewer restrictions on the non-union workforce and what that does is it's going to give the workforce autonomy in the decision-making practices .

So they're going to be more fluid because , especially when you start building up some of the trust because you might say , hey look , we've went into this issue before , here's how we solved it and they can actually shift directions and move to that direction when , because of the strict work rules that the union has , they may not necessarily allow them to do that .

And also , when you're non-union , it allows you to have direct communication with the employer .

So the non-union employees they could literally go in and sit down , talk to the owner of the company and they have those communications which could honestly lead to Solving problems quicker , right , or even having a better workmanship , working relationship with that management team . And Again , you want to have a good working relationship with your management team .

You don't ever want to get into an argument with them . I mean they're gonna be wrong , you're gonna be wrong . The key is that have a good conversation . And Again , the non-union , because there's don't have the rules saying you can't . You have to go through the shop Stewart and have to go through this whole process .

You can go straight straight to with a non-union and solve those problems , but there is drawbacks , absolutely drawbacks , for non-union as well . So working with non-union , you don't have that same job security because , especially if you're gonna write the work state , you know they could literally fire you just because you know , I don't know , the winds blowing west .

So you don't have that same job security that you do as a , as a workforce , because of an union . Pressure gets fired for a reason . There is some recourse if to go back through the union . If it's been a reason , that may not be just Right . With non-union you don't have that . You just don't have that .

So you don't you , the non-union , you're gonna be lacking those types of job protections that have been negotiated by the unions . Again , the unions negotiate them as a collective of people , so it has more strength . The benefits sometimes are not as good . I'd say the benefits most often are not as good as union benefits .

Again , there are a lot of times you'll be working for small contractors . They may not be able to have the best dental and health and and Retirement . The big ones , they're gonna have them absolutely , but the smaller ones may not .

So you may not have that same great health insurance , that great retirement plan that's that union job is gonna give you , because each of these costs are gonna have to be managed individually by each of those companies and Depending on how good they are manage your project and making money , if they're not so good , their benefits aren't gonna be as good .

Again , with the training already talking , I already told you I feel the union is far superior when it comes to training a Non-union workforce . You're gonna have fewer opportunities for formal training process or for formal apprenticeship programs .

There are I can count on one hand the number of companies I know that are non-union and have some type of an apprenticeship program . They're there , non-union companies , they're almost non-existent . The union side , they are very big into apprenticeship programs . Now what that means is a non-union employee .

You're probably gonna have to learn it by just going out there and doing it , and you know as well as I do that we as installers and technicians and foreman , we're not good at sharing information with other people , because we're afraid that if we tell that person how to do our job they're gonna steal our job .

So again , that's that's a disadvantage you're gonna have with working with a non-union type of environment and this could actually come back and impact you for as far as Developing your skills long term and your career advancement with that union thing . You've got that career path already set in place . You're an apprentice year one you're gonna do these tasks .

You're two , you can do those tasks . You're three , four and work your way through the program in a non-union environment . You do it when that opportunity arises . Now you might actually get through it faster than an apprenticeship program , but more often not . What I've seen is it usually takes longer to be to get those same skill sets Now as a non-union .

Another disadvantage you have is you lack negotiating power . When you go in to ask for the race , it's just you . It is just you , and if the boss is having a bad day . I don't know you , he forgot to have his triple latte cappuccino , whatever , whatever , whatever . They may not be as open to talking to you about giving you a salary increase .

They might just got done balancing the books and they go my god , how are we gonna make payroll this month ? And here you come knocking on the door . Boss , I'd like them , I like to have a raise . Well , it's just you .

Again , the union has that collective Bargaining agreement , has a group of people coming saying , look , we need to have these salary ranges for these individuals at these year marks in these skill sets . So that's a disadvantage there that you have with the non-union . Now let's talk about some factors you're gonna need to really consider .

When you're trying to choose between should I go Union or should I go Non-union . The first thing you want to think about is what is your personal career goals Again . So if you're , you may want to go with a union if your career goal is going to be making them have some type of long-term job security .

We have access to , again , that really great benefits program that we talked about and that structured path to go through your career path . That union is absolutely going to do . That's gonna line it with those objectives . And the union membership also will provide you stability because you know . You know where that next target is .

They can't move that target on you on the next . On the non-union side , if you Prioritize your flexibility , you have a better potential of making more money and better performance , and this is gonna give you the ability to pursue Even a more diverse range of projects than a non-union or that a union member may not have been have been able to have .

So I can't talk tonight . It's been a long weekend , give me a break . The non-union roles can also offer some type of autonomy when it comes to Changing your careers or carving a new career path . You might said you know what , boss , I'm dumb , tired of pulling cable , I want to be an estimator .

Now , okay , that's , that's gonna be easier conversation From a non-union perspective than it is a union perspective

. Another consideration is graphic location . If you're doing work in an area that's that's Very union heavy again , I was in Philadelphia just this weekend . Now , philadelphia , new Jersey , new York , very union strong areas of the country .

So if you're doing work in that area , yes , there are non-union contractors in that area , but by vast majority of them are going to be union so that you might wish I go union anyway , the non-union . You can be more prevalent for non-union in some areas . Again you get outside of those .

Florida right , north Carolina , south Carolina , they do have unions but by far it's mostly a non-union workforce and again , the non-union workforce historically has less influence . But it also , if you , if you're really good at doing your research , you know , versus union , versus non-union and Voltage , you can pick your location the way that you really want to go .

So stay . If you want to be non-union , stay away from the New York , new Jersey . You know the the the rule , union heavy areas that you wouldn't try to pick up . We're gonna live . Another consideration is going to be the industry demand , so the union . They actually assess the demands for low voltage installs for a specific area .

Some industries may have stronger union presence , like I was talking about earlier , which will influence the job availability , it's going to influence the wages and it's going to influence the benefits . So make sure you research your industry trends and your growth prospects before you try to make that informed decision .

You know , a while back I mean a while back I moved to Dallas because I want to get out of the Northeast , I moved to Dallas . Well , I did my research on Dallas first , you know , because right before I moved to Dallas well , 10 years before I moved to Dallas , dallas had a real downturn in their economy .

So I did my research because I want to make sure that there was an opportunity for me there to flourish there before I took my family halfway across the US . So the industry demand for nonunion . Again , you're going to make sure you're going to evaluate that demand for those installers and again that's going to be more for those nonunion areas .

Another one is do you want individual skill sets and experience ? Right , the union they're really good at and very attractive because they're going to be giving you those skill sets . They're going to be giving you that education , that training that you don't have to pay for , that you can literally go start working off with .

The nonunion might be an excellent workforce for those specific areas where you don't have a lot of union . But you got to also keep in mind that they're not going to have those training programs and you're going to not have the negotiating power that you would have in a that a union low voltage installer would have .

And let's put it this way , and probably this is probably the biggest one your lifestyle preference . There are some people that just live and breathe union . There's nothing outside , nothing outside of a union . It's kind of like New Yorkers . You know , new Yorkers don't get me wrong if you're from New York , I love you .

I love you to death if you're from New York . But New Yorkers have , they're known to have this attitude that there's nothing outside of New York . There's a whole country outside of New York . Right , it is a personal preference , it's a lifestyle preference that you like to live in New York .

I could argue with you whether New York's better or worse in some areas of the country . So there are some people who just absolutely love being in a union . They love that brotherhood . Right , when I was in the fire department , I loved the brotherhood .

So if you value that kind of consistent work , balance and you're comfortable with that word structure , then union is going to be the best .

If you're kind of like me , I like to have more flexibility , I don't like to have rules defining me and I think that I'm a better worker , a more productive worker , because I don't have rules saying , hey , you have to do this , this and then this . Well , no , what if I want to do C first and then B , because it's not always the easiest choice ?

If you're that type of a worker , then a non-union workforce might be best for you . Now , before I do the conclusion here , let's talk about union versus non-union from a manager's perspective , because I told you , remember , I've been a manager as well . So the benefits of managing a union workforce you can easily gear up for a project , a large project .

Let's say you're a small . Yeah , there's a small communications contractor company out there and they went a really large project that's going to require 200 technicians . Well , currently they only have 30 . Uh-oh , we got to hire a bunch of people .

Do you have any idea how much time and resources it takes for a company to put out an ad process through all those resumes , bring those people in to interview them , make offers , hope they accept those offers and then bring them on board . That's a lot of resource and time . A union contractor if you're a manager of a union workforce , it's a phone call .

It is a phone call . You make a phone call to the local union , say , look , I need 200 people and they will have 200 people on your door the next day . That's a beautiful benefit as a manager of a union workforce One of the absolute best ones there is Because there always seems to be some people sitting on the bench .

That's also a disadvantage too , because some people they're on a bench for a reason right they don't like to work . Their quality is poor , because I remember a lot of times when I used to do large gear ups for projects and I used to bring people off of the bench .

If I brought 10 people into the job site and all 10 of them were from the bench , I probably had to send two of them back , maybe three , but they would send me another two or three again . So again , I don't have to go through that whole hiring process . It turns out being a advantage again . Now the thing with union halls and the benches .

If there's a really good worker within a local union hall , you're good companies . When they find this person out on the field , when they hire them , bring them off the bench . They're not going to let that guy go back to the bench . They're not going to let another company steal that person . They're going to stick with that person .

If the time is slow , they will find work for that person because they don't want to go back to the bench to lose them . So that's kind of an advantage there as a union worker , right ? Because if you're a really good union worker and you go to a really good company , they're going to try to keep you there . Because this drives me crazy .

There's good and there's bad . Union and non-union people , work , ethic , quality . That's why I say and I have my notes here for quality for me it's always been the same , even though the union does have that edge .

For as far as the training quality-wise as a QA inspector because I've done QA inspections in Philadelphia , dc , atlanta , raleigh , orlando , dallas , a wide swath of the country I've done QA inspections union and non-union and I've always found that quality is specific to the individual . I can't say union is better quality-wise than non-union .

Now , your experience might be different than mine , but for as far as my experience is , the quality has always been the same . And another advantage that you have as a manager of a union workforce is portability agreements .

So for those of you who may not know what a portability agreement means because you may not be listening to this , being a union person , let's say I'm the local IB here in Tampa and I get , I have a contractor , I'm a contractor and I'm working out of Tampa and I went a project in Warren Ohio . Okay , warren Ohio is a good , strong union area .

I can go to that area and work , as long as I use a certain number . There was a certain percentage of my workforce comes from the local union hall . Okay , that's the percentages and negotiating the portability agreements . So it kind of depends on the area and stuff like that . But I can easily go there and gear up and boom , be running Again .

I don't have to put out ads , you know , take in resumes , interview and then job offer for a bunch of local people . Now here you say but check , you know you can go with a temp workforce and do that too . You can , you can .

But I think that a union workforce is a little better because I think union workforces are treated better than temporary workforces are . And it just spent again what I've seen from the years of managing both people . So I love that portability part of agreement . Another thing I'll tell you that I a venture have .

So when I was managing a project one time in Ohio , as a matter of fact , we got a customer wants to give us a change order to do a 70 volt speaker system . So we ordered the cable , we started pulling the cable and the local union there said , no , you can't do that because that's our work . So I brought him a local union rep .

I said , hey , what's the deal ? I thought

this is ours . He goes that is your work , let me go . Let me go talk to him . That's all I do is have that one phone call that my local union rep went and talked to the other union . They realized that they were wrong and we were right . Boom Done . So they had their advantages and disadvantage of both .

Let me know in the comments below which do you prefer union or non union ? Remember , be civil . Let's have a good , constructive conversation about this Because , again , I think there's benefits and drawbacks to both , both of being a workforce union or non union and a manager of both working union , working union and non union .

So I hope you enjoyed this content and until next time . Remember , knowledge is power .