Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, welcome back to the podcast. Today, we are absolutely honored to have from the County Board of Supervisors, Bill Gates, who is responsible for District 3. We're just going to have a conversation about what's happening with the district, what's happening in Arizona with the county, and maybe a little bit more as far as what future plans might hold. Bill, welcome.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Thanks for having me, Todd. Great to be here.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I know we've been trying for a while and it's mostly been on our end. We really appreciate you taking the time.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Absolutely.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Since we haven't had you before, we'd love to have you just tell a little bit about yourself and then maybe something that we wouldn't know. I think probably, Bill, you're an open book, but perhaps there's something cool that we wouldn't know about you.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Ooh, okay. That's a challenge. Yeah. I moved here when I was 14. I'd moved around a lot as a kid, but moved here when I was 14, went to Deer Valley High School, and my four years here was the longest I'd ever lived anywhere. Of course, I left immediately, went away for college and law school, but I just kept feeling drawn back here to Phoenix. So came back here and practiced law for a few years at Fennemore Craig, one of Arizona's oldest law firms, and then went to work for PING Golf back in 2001. In the meantime, my wife and I had a couple of daughters and just actively involved in some non-profits, worked on campaigns and things like that. And then in 2009 there was an opening on the Phoenix City Council, and so I applied for that opening along with 22 of my best friends and I was very fortunate to be appointed.
I've served first on the Phoenix City Council for seven years and now I'm in my eighth year on the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors. And, yeah, maybe what people don't know about me is that my dad was Homer Simpson so my dad built nuclear power plants. As I was growing up, we'd moved to all these different places. So when I saw the Simpsons for the first time, I'm like, "That's my dad," and I mean that.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Does that make you Bart, though?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, I don't think I'm Bart. I'm probably a little more like Lisa and I'm an only child, so we didn't really have a Bart in the family.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Okay. Well, I guess probably people are asking themselves. All right. So PING, how's your golf game?
Bill Gates (Guest):
It is not what you would expect for someone who works for PING, but I love the game. I actually played one year of high school golf at Deer Valley, so I was the guy who made the team because I had a good attitude. But I loved it, I love the game, and it's been great. It's a way that we bond as a family. My wife plays golf and the girls play golf and I know I have to say that, but, no, really, it's a wonderful sport and many people in my family have played golf over the years.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Wonderful.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, that was a great synopsis, but the move from the private sector getting into public service is a significant... I do remember when you came and we were at City Council and you sort of made your pitch. What was it that spoke to you about public service at that time, going at the Phoenix City Council?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Just as long as I can remember, I've always been interested in the world around me, always been interested in the news, following what's going on, always interested in development. "Oh, what's the new thing?" Even as a kid, "What's the new thing they're building over there and development and growth and things like that?" Once we got to 2009, we had, at that point, two daughters who were seven and four. At that time I was thinking, "I really want this community to be a place that, when they grow up, they want to stay in.' So that is really what drove me to that, I think. I even said that to the members of the City Council.
I love this community so much and I've seen it change so much in a positive way since I moved here in 1985 and even since I joined the Phoenix City Council. And Todd, you've played a big part in that, so I want to thank you for it. This economy now is so much more diversified than it was even 15, let alone 30 or 40 years ago. And so I think it is now a place where people, like our girls that are in their early twenties, they want to live in. It's cool, it's fun, and it's a place where if they have their own families, that they would want to raise their own families. To me, that's the ultimate win.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, I hear you. I have a kid in college now and I really hope he comes back. I'm with you. Thanks for laying that groundwork. Well, what was the biggest surprise to you? I mean, obviously, before you're in office, you certainly have an idea what this is going to look like. When you got into the city hall and you caught the proverbial dog, what was the big surprise?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I think the big surprise, particularly at City Council is people expect their City Council person and their mayor to fix everything because you are so close to the people there. And that's an honor, it's a privilege to have that people looking to you to do those things, and so a lot of the time there, and even at the county, there are those things that we're responsible for at local government. But sometimes you're playing traffic cop, right? "Okay, that's a federal issue. Let's get you over to the congressional office. That's a state issue." And so to me, it's all about getting results for folks. And so you know those things that you can affect, but then sometimes it's knowing where to send these folks and who to connect them up with, and that's just very gratifying for me.
Todd Sanders (Host):
And it's true. I mean, those folks are really the closest to you as a citizen on a day-to-day basis. I mean, if your trash doesn't get picked up, you know who to call. It's not going to be your congressman.
Bill Gates (Guest):
That's right.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I think that's a really interesting point. You, I think, had a very successful time at City Council. You worked with everyone to get things done, but then you decided you wanted to make a switch. Looking at the county, what was involved in that thought process?
Bill Gates (Guest):
The more time I spent at the city, it became obvious that the issues that we were facing were really regional in nature. I think we're a great example for it here. When District 3, my City Council district, I had constituents who had a Paradise Valley address or a Scottsdale address even though they lived in the city of Phoenix. Most people aren't really aware, "Where am I?" They don't worry about that. They think about this region, what it's like to live here in the valley. So many of these issues are regional, whether we're talking about transportation issues, whether we're talking about air quality. And so for me, I saw, going to the board, the opportunity to tackle these things on a regional level. The people who had served at the Board of Supervisors were people that I really looked up to, whether we're talking about a Betsey Bayless, a Jan Brewer, and Andy Kunasek. When Andy announced in 2016 he wasn't going to run again, I learned this lesson from Jan Brewer. I got in the race that same day.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Right away without thinking.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yes. Yes.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Interesting.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Well, maybe a little bit of thought.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Yeah. Well, and it's interesting to think about it that way, because those of us who work in policy, we think about political subdivisions, but people in their day-to-day don't think of it that way. They think of it as an area, correct?
Bill Gates (Guest):
That's right. That's right.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I think you mentioned the city and I think people understand what City Council does and they understand legislature and Congress, but a little more obscure for people is the Board of Supervisors. It was a rundown. What does that really mean, the Board of Supervisors and being a supervisor?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah. Well, it's a great question, because I think particularly when I talk to folks from other countries... I spoke to a group of civil servants from Oman and I think they spent the entire time I was speaking with them, trying to figure out, "What is this, the county?" And once I explained it to them and what we did, then they said, "Why is that?" And I said, "I don't know. I don't know why the county..." Some of the stuff is regional in nature but some of it isn't. But whether, again, like I said, air quality issues, we handle... I always like to say, as a supervisor, you're the mayor and city council for all of the unincorporated parts of your district. For me, for example, that includes Anthem. A lot of people think Anthem is its own incorporated. It's not. The part of Anthem east of the I-17 is unincorporated Maricopa County, so we're responsible for planning and zoning in that area. Then we also work with the countywide electeds and that's probably our biggest role is that budgetary responsibility that we have, that oversight in that partnership.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Who are some of those areas?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Example like the sheriff, the county assessor, the county treasurer, the superintendent of schools, and, of course, the recorder. I think people know a lot about that and our involvement in elections. I had been a election day lawyer for the Republican Party for many years. That was one of those the things that I was looking at that it would be interesting to get involved in elections. I never could have imagined what that would mean, but then also economic development has been a real focus for me both in my time on the City Council and at the Board of Supervisors. And to have the ability to work with our partners, like your organization, of course, and others and what we do... I think the most important thing that we can do is establish a county government that has a low tax burden, but then of course can still provide the important services that folks need here in our county and I feel that we've been able to accomplish that.
We've actually lowered taxes, lower property taxes for the last four years, but then also making sure that the regulatory burden is as light as possible, again, while still fulfilling our function. I think that we've done that at the county and I really enjoy that. I enjoy working with Clint Hickman once referred to the Board of Supervisors as a businessman's board. Now, he didn't mean to be sexist by saying that, it's just we are all five-
Todd Sanders (Host):
Business person.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, business person. We're all five guys right now, but I think we come from that business background, which I think is reflected in the policies that we've pursued over the past few years.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, I think that's such an interesting point because that's when we started, I think, doing a lot more with the county. We'd always had some work we did with the county, but when you and that group sort of gelled, it felt much more like what people talk about, "Run it like a business." You did that. I mean, we had a program that we worked on with you all and you came to us and said, "This has run its course and it's not getting the outputs we need," and you were right. And so you come back and let's look at something else to develop the economy. I felt like I really respected the idea that we're going to make sure that we're good stewards of the taxpayers dollars and we're going to get the best outputs possible.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Well, and I appreciate that and the partnership with you all has been fantastic. We feel like our constituents deserve that. They deserve to get the same kind of high quality service that they've come to expect from the private sector, and so all of my colleagues and I are very much focused in that way. I've talked for many years about if you cannot access your government, particularly local government on your phone, then you're not going to be relevant anymore. And so definitely that's been one of the primary objectives that I've had throughout the years has been becoming a digital-friendly county, becoming more and more accessible, especially that new generation that lives on their phone.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, it really does. I think the other part, I think, that strikes me about this body, especially today, is it's not just Republicans. You have a member of the Democratic Party there, but it's not what we're seeing in Congress or at the legislature. It's much different. How does that work? Do you not ever disagree?
Bill Gates (Guest):
No, I mean, we disagree. We do have four Republicans and one Democrat. We all come from different backgrounds, but what we do is we respect one another. And I couldn't say enough good things about my Democratic colleague, Steve Gallardo, just like I would about all my Republican colleagues. It's about knowing that we all have one objective and that is to do the work of the people, do the work of our constituents. If we're working together, we can accomplish that. And we're not spending our time focusing on distractions that, unfortunately, there's a lot of that in other levels of government. I would argue that the Maricopa County Board of Supervisors is the most pro-business level of government, probably has been last five years. And does that mean that we're not focused on everyone? Of course we are. But I think bringing that business mindset, working with small businesses and our larger businesses, it leads to good results. That's certainly been our experience.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, and I think I can say, at least from my perspective, it's nice that when you go to a meeting, it's not the cage match, it's not the rage cage, it's people actually trying to move the ball forward for the citizens of Maricopa County. And it seems to be working well. You mentioned the economy. Clearly, we are blessed with an incredible economy here. You mentioned that a few minutes ago, fastest growing county in the country, but that certainly brings challenges with it. Again, catching the dog. We are doing so well now that I have colleagues from other states asking me what is it we're doing differently. How do we manage that growth or how do you all manage that growth?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, that's a major focus of us here, just like it is for all elected officials, really, in Maricopa County, in the state of Arizona. I think number one is engaging the stakeholders, whether it is the constituents, whether it is those in business, and understanding that not all growth is good. We've been reasonable about it, but at the same time, when you allow people's entrepreneurial spirit to go and keep that low regulatory burden, it leads to positive results. Then you sprinkle a little bit of low property taxes on the top of it, it works. And that's maybe a little bit out of vogue now with some in both parties, but we've been able to maintain that balance. And we didn't start it. This group on the board didn't start it. This started years ago. And to see that consistently maintaining that ability to provide services but do it in an efficient way and always have a focus on improving.
We are never satisfied. We're always looking at how can we better provide services to folks and, again, get that sort of business level of customer service as we went into COVID times and having to deal with changing on a dime. And now, we've kept a lot of that in place where people can do the plan reviews digitally. They don't have to drive all the way do-
Todd Sanders (Host):
Thank you.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah. They don't have to drive all the way down to Downtown Phoenix and we're looking for that every way that we can make things easier for folks. As opposed to, "How can we get in your way? How can we frustrate you," I think definitely... Jen Pokorski, our county manager, she understands this implicitly and everything that she does and all the work that she does with her team, she makes it clear, "How can we get to yes?"
Todd Sanders (Host):
Let me pivot a little bit on the growth side. I read something, I think, in the journal very recently about housing. Half the country has a low interest mortgage loan and they think the housing market's phenomenal, which I would agree with, and then you have the other half that's trying to get into the market. And in that case, they're looking at very high rates and low inventory. Clearly, everyone's focused on this. Does the County Board of Supervisors have a role in this or what should it be?
Bill Gates (Guest):
We've been very fortunate to have ARPA funds that have come to the county recently. And so we've worked very hard with our team at Maricopa County and other partners to invest it to build to that housing stock. I mean, that's the key. We need more places for people to live and we have been in a unique, probably once in a generation opportunity to invest in housing that is affordable for folks. We cannot just say, "Okay, well, the ARPA funding's here and it's gone," and just say, "Done. We can check the box." We've got to continue a focus on this [inaudible 00:17:21] to say something that is not so popular with everyone. But I've done 15 years now of working in planning and zoning as a member of the City Council and the Board of Supervisors and sometimes it takes leadership from people.
Not everyone is going to love every project, but your job is to look at it, balance it, work with the applicant, work with the neighbors, and come out with the best result for the community. And sometimes, that means taking some tough votes. I had a few in particular on the City Council, but these projects... You know about this because you worked with me on the North 32nd effort to bring some vibrancy back to that neighborhood. And I voted yes and I proved some projects that not everyone loved, but I'll tell you what, you go back there, you look at it now, and it's changed. And so that's the one thing I would say is I'll be moving off, writing off into the sunset as an elected official. Those who remain, you need to have some courage. You can't make everybody happy and that is not the full solution, but you take that, it's going to start to move the ball in this direction so that all these new people, all the new workforce that we need... So that there are places that they can actually afford to live.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Absolutely. Yeah. Point well taken. I think for those of you who haven't been to 32nd Shea, come down. I think nobody complains today about-
Bill Gates (Guest):
I don't think so.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I don't think so. It is. We're going to get back to leadership in a minute, but I appreciate that. Clearly, the county does not work sort of in a vacuum. You have to work with the cities, you have to work with the state, and probably the feds. How does the board interact with those other entities?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I'm very proud of where the county is at today. I think we're at a high point in cooperation between the board and our congressional delegation, our US senators, the city of Phoenix, and, really, municipalities across the valley. We're working together, just as one example, on heat relief. Heat relief, we know this is a major issue. We're now in our second summer in a row of record-breaking heat. And we've had the opportunity with partnerships with the federal government and with our municipalities to establish these cooling centers. That's something that maybe a few years ago we could not have done. You would've seen everyone pointing at one another, but thanks to people like Mayor Gallego, Mayor Giles, and really mayors and city councils across the valley. We're able to work on these things. We're able to work on the homelessness issue. We're able to work on getting affordable housing. Again, the press doesn't like to talk about that because that's a good news story, but that's what's going on. And I would say in the time that I've been involved as an elected official, this is as much cooperation as I've seen.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, and I think that is such a good example of something that's impacting people at a very basic level. It is too bad that the media doesn't seem to focus on these kinds of things. The disaster seems to be very attractive to them and that's unfortunate. But speaking of that, we mentioned elections. Let me start with this. What are three things you wish people knew about our election system?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I think number one is that our tabulation machines are not connected to the internet. That is one of the common things that you hear is it's connected to the internet and people are monkeying around with it. They're not. And if they come down to our tabulation center, we can prove it to them.
Number two, our elections are not run by faceless bureaucrats. They're not run by robots. They're run by people, literally thousands of people here in Maricopa County, and they're your aunt, your uncle, your mom, your dad, your grandparents. That's who runs elections.
And then the third thing is that there are eyes on everything. The people that would claim that there are, there's funny business going on or things are getting rigged... For that to happen, you would have to have a conspiracy that would literally involve thousands of people working together. The reality is it doesn't happen. And you have Republicans and Democrats in the room at all times watching this and that's a great part of our democracy. They help us to get better and they help us to go out there as they learn.
A lot of them then go out in the community and explain the truth about what's going on. And you don't even have to be there to have that level of faith. We live stream what goes on down at our tabulation center, so if people want to, they can watch it on their computer at home. Those would probably be the three things, but I've probably got another 30 things after that.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Yeah. No, I'm sure it is such a big issue. It feels like the last election, Pandora's box was opened on this. Is there a way to close that box again and get people to realize that you can trust elections, there's always abnormalities or small errors that can occur in any system, but is there a way to get back to that point?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Well, yeah, you make a great point, Todd, which is there is no such thing as a perfect election. Again, it's humans involved. There are things that happen in every election. What would help is that if we would stop having our leaders, some of our leaders, some of our elected officials with the specific intent of sowing doubt in our election system. That is heartbreaking to me. It is dangerous. I will answer questions all day long. My colleagues at the county will answer questions all day long if they are asked in good faith, but these questions that are asked with an ulterior motive, with a hidden agenda, just to sow more doubt in our election system, which is the bedrock of our democracy. I've got a real problem with that. And so I would ask all these people to just take a moment to think about the impact they're having on a system that has been incredibly successful, the most incredible government that the world has ever seen, the oldest constitution in the world. Think about the impact that they're having on this generation and generations in the future. But fortunately, it's not too late, but things need to start changing pretty quickly.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, and certainly people have the opportunity, as you mentioned, to see what's happening live. I know we're going to take our board down to have a tour of the election center, which I think is really important and let people ask questions.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Absolutely.
Todd Sanders (Host):
But what I'm hearing from you is this comes back to this question that you just talked about earlier, which is leadership people are using this as a wedge issue during elections.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah. Unfortunately, they are. Fortunately, some of this election denialism, some of this corrosive behavior and talk has not really slowed down our growth. It's remarkable, but that's the last thing we need to do. If we want to continue to draw great employers and great employees to Maricopa County, we need to check the misinformation and get back to what it is that has led us to be so successful.
Todd Sanders (Host):
And that was one of my questions, whether or not we'd seen a downturn in growth because of this, and I think we're fortunate to this point not to have a negative implication because of some of this talk out there.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, I think that's right. I mean, it's something that people do ask me about, particularly like in 2021 with the Cyber Ninjas. I think that was particularly challenging, but now as we've moved on, we have seen our elected officials, I would say, at all levels of government basically mainly rowing in the same direction. I'm grateful for that and we got to keep that up.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, I'd like to switch a little bit in terms of the impact of what's happened because I think it's had a human impact. We were thinking about you, your dad, you've got a family, you're kind of a normal guy that I see at the grocery store, at the Pancake House, and that's who you want to run for office, regular people. And I think this has had the effect of moving regular people out of public life. I can tell you, I've had discussions with folks on my board and there's no way because they've seen what's happened. Maybe on a personal level, give me a sense for what this has meant for you as a regular Arizonan and what that could mean for you in the future.
Bill Gates (Guest):
So I think it's so important. I would agree with you. I want people in local government who are not professional politicians. I want my neighbor. I want the person who coaches our girls on their volleyball team. That's who I want to see serving in local government. Now, like you said before, at local government, you're very close to the people. I can remember some times going to the grocery store and people were upset with me on maybe a vote I took on an issue on the City Council, on a zoning, something like that. You kind of figure you sign up for that. That kind of comes with the territory and I think that's fair. If they want to come over and say, "Hey, I think you're doing a good job," but I respectfully disagree with you on this.
But unfortunately, what's happened in the last four years, first starting with COVID, because at Maricopa County, we're the public health authority. And so we were put in a position at the board where we had to make some very, very difficult decisions. And I'll tell you what... Well, I can only speak on my behalf, but I am guessing my colleagues would agree with me, stand behind every single vote that I took on that, including voting for a mask mandate for Maricopa County. That was a tough vote to take, but that's what the public health experts were asking for.
With that, we started to see a new level of anger from people and it was starting to go beyond just the Maricopa County borders. But again, I don't regret it because we were talking about life and death. Then we moved into the election, so just that same year later in 2020. It became clear by the time that we voted to certify the election in 2020 that this was going to be one of the most important votes that we had ever taken as elected officials. But there was never a question in my mind that that was the right thing to do and I accept that.
What I don't accept is when we start getting into death threats, when we start getting into fellow elected officials questioning whether you're an American or not, calling you a traitor because of just doing your job, and finally the fact that so many others have not spoken up and pushed back on that. It's got to stop at some point. We saw an awful incident recently with former President Trump with an example of political violence. I hope this is a wake-up call for people that we cannot normalize the death threats. We cannot normalize this kind of language where we call people traitors and worse. We're better than that in America. We're better than that in Maricopa County, because I want my neighbors to want to run for office, and I don't want our offices to just be populated by people who, again, have a hidden agenda. It needs to be about public service. It needs to be about making your community better.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, certainly, I know you and the family suffered greatly personally during the last election and I think that's also something that's going to limit people getting into public office.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah. I mean, it's just unacceptable to have to spend the night in an Airbnb because you're concerned about your safety. We're so grateful to law enforcement for what they've done, but to have a sheriff's deputy sleeping outside your house or every time there's a knock on the door wondering, "Who is this and what is going to happen," that's not who we are. That's not who we are as a people. But having said all that, we have so many... And they come up to me all the time. There's still a lot of people that want to run for office. There's a lot of people on the ballot, good people, so that's what gives me hope. And that next generation, they see this, they see what's going on, and they're rejecting it. So I've got a lot of faith, too. I'm an optimist, I'll admit it. I'm an optimist by nature, but I have faith. But it's going to take courage for people to step up and serve in these roles that may be the level of courage that wasn't required out of people working in local government in the past.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Correct. Very different today than the past. Well, obviously you're wrapping up your tenure at the Board of Supervisors. What's the thing you're most proud of in your term at the county?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I am so proud to be a part of a board of supervisors that has remained focused on growing this economy, on cutting property taxes for the last four years, and trying to maintain some sanity through all this. We have had to replace a county assessor in some very difficult circumstances, replace two county attorneys, deal with a pandemic that none of us had seen before, and then have to deal with two elections that people could have never imagined where our integrity and the integrity of the people who run our elections was questioned. To be able to keep our heads high and to stick together as a board, I think people have told me that we've been... Not everyone has like what we've done, but I think people have felt like we have stuck together for a common purpose, which is the best interests of the people of Maricopa County. So when I look back on it, I will be most proud of that, how we stuck together, how we made some tough votes, and we continued to work towards that objective of what's best for the people of Maricopa County.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, certainly the results speak for themselves. I mentioned we like to have people who are regular members of the community that are in public life. You are now leaving office at the county level. Can you give us a glimpse for what we might see in the future from you?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yes. We have talked about elections and I'm excited that I will be joining Arizona State University, where I will be the executive director of the Mechanics of Democracy Laboratory. This will be an opportunity where we can work with that next generation to inculcate them with these values, the democratic values, small D, and hopefully inspire them to careers and elections administration, as well as convening people from around the country who are experts in this area to make sure that never again do people wonder how our elections are run and have those questions. And then, I'll also be a professor of practice over there, so have an opportunity to train the next generation of city managers and county managers on what's important in government and how we can best provide for the needs of our citizens.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I can't think of a better person to run that effort.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Thank you.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I'm glad you're going to be staying in the public arena in a different way, but it's good to know that you're going to be there with America's future leaders.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Thank you.
Todd Sanders (Host):
A few more. Given that you're going to be going into a institution of higher learning, I've got some more philosophical questions for you as we wrap up. What does it mean to be an America in the America of today? What does it mean?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I think to be an America, it means it is an idea, right? It's an idea of having that freedom, of having the opportunity to pursue the life that you choose for yourself. We have taken that for granted, but, unfortunately, as autocrats continue to expand across the globe, this is something that we cannot take for granted. That idea of having that freedom both to express yourself and to be able to do whatever it is that you want to do with your skills and your talents, there's still no other place on the Earth where you have that freedom and that ability, and it's something we should be so proud of and it's something that we should never take for granted.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Absolutely. You've touched on this a few times and I know one part of this answer, but how do you define leadership?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I think leadership is... It's about making tough choices. It's about not telling people what they want to hear, but telling them what they need to hear. This is a lesson I had not learned when I became a member of the Phoenix City Council. I learned it the hard way, but I had people who helped me to learn that lesson so that by the time we hit 2020, I knew that I could not tell people what they want to hear and be successful. Sadly, there are too many people in government, in elected office who just try and tell people what they want to hear. That's not being a leader. It's the opposite of being a leader and you will always fail taking that approach. You got to know who you are. You got to know what you believe in. You listen to people, absolutely, but you can't tell them what they want to hear, because eventually it'll catch up with you.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Absolutely. Obviously, it's election season. I had the bad fortune, I guess you can say, of having to watch the Olympics live yesterday. And every time it went to a commercial, it was mind-numbing. For people that are seeing these commercials, it really is hard to determine, "How do I vote for this person or that person"? For you, when you look at your ballot, how do you size up candidates? What do you do? What's your mechanism for saying, "I think this is the person I'm willing to vote for"?
Bill Gates (Guest):
For me, if they've served in office, I definitely look at their record. I look at the way that both that they vote, but almost as important for me is the way that they govern, the way that they interact with people, and the way that they show humility, hopefully, and admit when they make a mistake. That is very important. If they have not served in office, what I would say, honestly, Todd, is you don't really know what you're getting. You don't really know what you're getting until you get into office and I think you know what I'm talking about. And so for those folks, you got to go to their website, look at what they're talking about. But to me, and I know most people say endorsements don't matter, but the endorsements that they have, those say a lot to me because I typically do know who's endorsed them. I'm not going to name any names, but that's an important part, too, because that's you're saying, "This person's vouching for me, so that tells me a lot about that person too."
Todd Sanders (Host):
Well, a good advice. And it is, it's hard. It really is a minefield in terms of really knowing people until they become office holders. All right. Enough of the esoteric, big philosophical questions. We're going to get into the last part of our talk today, which is our lightning round.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Okay. [inaudible 00:37:47].
Todd Sanders (Host):
So we're going to start with first job.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, McDonald's.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Okay. What'd you learn?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yeah, I learned that it's hard work. Serving, it's public service, right? The public is coming in and they want their refill on that coffee and they want it now. And if we have that focus on whatever we do on serving the customer, you're going to be successful.
Todd Sanders (Host):
You bet. And I think, yeah, you do learn how to manage tough situations and also to know there's dignity in all work.
Bill Gates (Guest):
That's right.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I know you have a phone, but you have either an Android or an Apple. You listen to music. Heavy rotation, what's the number one song on that heavy rotation list?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Oh, number one song right now? I'm not sure.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Or just generally. Yeah.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Well, generally, I go anywhere from yacht rock to hip hop, so I [inaudible 00:38:40].
Todd Sanders (Host):
I'm sure the girls love that.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yes, absolutely. Well, interestingly, we share an affinity for both, so we have trained them well on yacht rock.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Have they made you a Swiftie?
Bill Gates (Guest):
No, they have not. You notice I didn't mention that.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I know.
Bill Gates (Guest):
I said yacht rock and hip hop.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Okay.
Bill Gates (Guest):
I know Stephen Richards is going to be offended if he's listening. I know he's a big Taylor Swift fan-
Todd Sanders (Host):
We won't tell.
Bill Gates (Guest):
... but not too much of that music in our house.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Okay. Describe yourself in three words.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Silly, I care, and oftentimes hungry.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Excellent. [inaudible 00:39:19] I certainly suffer from that.
Bill Gates (Guest):
And I look like it, right?
Todd Sanders (Host):
I suffer from that. I would add, though, something you said earlier, which is positive. It's such an important part. Okay, this is a good one. I like this one. Spy codename.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Ooh, spy Codename? Okay. Weather Spotter.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Weather? Okay.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yes, I am actually-
Todd Sanders (Host):
Is that your superpower?
Bill Gates (Guest):
I am actually the National Weather Service. I went through weather spotter certification, so...
Todd Sanders (Host):
Okay.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Yes.
Todd Sanders (Host):
And then the last one-
Bill Gates (Guest):
That's probably something you didn't know about me.
Todd Sanders (Host):
I did not. I like that a lot.
Bill Gates (Guest):
I love the monsoon storms.
Todd Sanders (Host):
The last one, power. Invisibility or the power to fly? Which one?
Bill Gates (Guest):
Oh, invisibility. That's fun.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Just because it's more fun?
Bill Gates (Guest):
That's fun. Yeah, absolutely.
Todd Sanders (Host):
All right, excellent. Well, thank you for spending so much time with us.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Thank you.
Todd Sanders (Host):
But more importantly, thank you for your service to not only the county, but to our state and to our country. I'm glad that we're going to continue to be able to have you in public service and we'll look forward to the next time.
Bill Gates (Guest):
Well, thanks so much, Todd. And it's been a real honor and privilege to work with you the entire time I've been in elected office and to know that there was a trusted voice from the business community that we could always pick up the phone and call and get the skinny on things, I'm grateful for that. Thank you for your service.
Todd Sanders (Host):
Thank you.