Todd:
Welcome back to the podcast. We have an incredible guest here today, Jessica Pacheco, who is the CEO of Horizon Strategies. Jessica, welcome.
Jessica Pacheco:
So good to be here with you, my friend. Really good to see you.
Todd:
And when you say friend, there is so much to that because I think it's been about close to 20 years. You look better. I have no hair.
Jessica Pacheco:
Can you say that again please?
Todd:
You look much better.
Jessica Pacheco:
Thank you.
Todd:
Than when we started our careers back at the chambers, the respective chambers. You were the Arizona Chamber. I was at the Phoenix Chamber and we became really fast friends back in the day and fast [inaudible 00:00:32].
Jessica Pacheco:
You were the best lobbying buddy I ever had.
Todd:
Well, I think it was you and I against a lot.
Jessica Pacheco:
Against the world.
Todd:
Yes, it felt that way. I'm assuming there's plenty-
Jessica Pacheco:
At least we spoke in Spanish.
Todd:
Correct.
Jessica Pacheco:
That was cool.
Todd:
We certainly did and that was a nice code to have. But there's probably one or two folks out there that don't know you, so maybe give us a little bit about you and maybe something about you that most people wouldn't know.
Jessica Pacheco:
Okay. Wow. Most people wouldn't know. So I was born and raised in Brazil and I moved to Honduras and then I moved to Tucson to finish high school and go to college-
Todd:
Which is a natural route.
Jessica Pacheco:
Totally. Of course.
Todd:
People used to do that.
Jessica Pacheco:
North. And so I then came to Phoenix and I was going to be here a year and then I was going to go off and do something really cool and cosmopolitan and sophisticated and fast-forward 30 years, I'm still here. No, I love living in Phoenix. I love Arizona. It's just an amazing place and it's giving me incredible opportunities. So I went to work for the utility company and I stayed there just shy of 25 years and then I launched into a series of new businesses with my business partner, Jen Daniels, who's the former mayor of Gilbert. And I can't tell you how fun it's been. Now I do have three kids. They're all here in the valley.
Todd:
They're very cool kids.
Jessica Pacheco:
Thank you. I'm fond, partial to them.
Todd:
I remember when they were born.
Jessica Pacheco:
I know. How crazy is that, right? And I really like wearing flip-flops, it's my favorite shoe.
Todd:
Is that the little-known fact?
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, it's my favorite shoe.
Todd:
Well, I think that works. I think for context, Horizon Strategies.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, Horizon Strategies is a couple of things. It's a full-service, public affairs firm. It also has, I would say, other tentacles and branches. It does a lot of work in the municipal space. It does a lot of work in the strategy space, meaning a prominent CEO or professional athlete is retiring and they need their family office set up and they need some guidance or some structure as to what the next chapter looks like. And we do a lot of work in that space.
Todd:
I'm assuming you work with some people we might know that you probably can't mention.
Jessica Pacheco:
Correct.
Todd:
Okay.
Jessica Pacheco:
And then we also are involved in venture capital and the infrastructure that we need to attract tech talent.
Todd:
That's such an interesting point. I didn't know that. One of the things that I hear usually when I'm not in Phoenix is that Arizona tends to struggle in the VC space in terms of dollars. Speak to that a little bit.
Jessica Pacheco:
I don't think that's true. What I think people do is compare the valley today to Silicon Valley today versus Silicon Valley 15, 20 years ago. It was a much different place then and they're further along in their evolution than we are. I think that we've made great strides over the last five, seven years and you can feel the momentum. First of all, there are a bunch of new people that are engaged, which is terrific and it is a regular part of conversation. So it used to be that aerospace was a regular part of business conversation. It's now startups, technology, helping founders, making sure that we have the funders and founders connected. And so I'm really excited about the progress that we've made. We need more for sure, but we're on that road,
Todd:
So comparing us to Silicon Valley today, not a good comparison. Comparing us to what we were 20 years ago, an absolutely valid.
Jessica Pacheco:
Absolutely. And they had a couple of geographic advantages. One is they're geographically close to each other and so it's easy to grab a cup of coffee, go on a walk and run into folks. Obviously in the valley it's a little more dispersed. That said, we can create those pockets of community and that's part of what we work on.
Todd:
Okay. There's this other part of your life and I think when we think about service, you're committed to service. You are on the board of Regents, former president of Arizona-Mexico Commission. You serve on the executive committee-
Jessica Pacheco:
Which you know are right. Pass the baton.
Todd:
Yeah. Follow in your footsteps on the executive committee of Arizona, Arizona Chamber of Commerce. You're doing a lot out there. Like to talk a little bit about some of the things that are occurring in higher ed obviously is such an important part of the ecosystem here. From your perspective, what do we need to be thinking about as it relates to higher ed and higher ed policy in Arizona?
Jessica Pacheco:
That's a big question, but before I get into that, I just want to make a plug for a public service. However you can serve, I would encourage you to do so. First of all, you meet a whole new set of folks and you also give back to a place that's giving a lot to you. And I'm very, very grateful for everything that Arizona has given me in my family, and I'm a true believer that we all need to serve somehow. And so whether it's school board or whether it's on a board or even volunteering in the park on the weekends.
Todd:
Well, and certainly you've done a lot of volunteering and you're right though, it does come back to you.
Jessica Pacheco:
Well, and Todd, I can say the same of you, that you also are a person of service and it matters. We need to lean in, if you will.
Todd:
Agreed.
Jessica Pacheco:
Now about higher ed, it is a complicated, very complicated question and answer. We have a system that was set up for a world that no longer exists and we have really innovative leaders like Michael Crow, Bobby Robbins, Jose Luis up in Flagstaff. They're incredible and they are trying to move their infrastructure, their construct that was built for a different time into this next chapter, but the next chapter is entirely undefined. We just know it's going to move faster than we can react to and information is going to be everywhere.
So when you think about AI, few people can actually define it, but nonetheless, it's if I have access to all the same information you have access to, so our information is equal, what differentiates us? What gives you the competitive advantage? How are we going to be thinking about that? And then how do our institutions of higher education help facilitate that? I would propose that as we move through this decade and into the next, that education is going to become more modular, that universities are really going to be places of lifestyle and community because you can learn anywhere. I mean that's what Covid taught us, right? We were very-
Todd:
It's democratizing knowledge.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, and we're very mobile now. And so how do we take all of that infrastructure and still put it to good use for society and then how do we ensure that you are learning what you need in order to have a competitive advantage should you want one in this new space?
Todd:
I think that that's fascinating and scary at the same time. Because your point, we have a long way to go. When we think about higher ed and a lot of folks will say, why would you need a degree in philosophy or in the fine arts, are we heading towards a place where we lacked philosophers and artists and people who maybe aren't looking at the economy in one way, but when you think about for instance, the founding fathers, there were some philosophers in there, right? Are we going to miss that part or is that something that's still a part of that ecosystem?
Jessica Pacheco:
I think it's very much a part of the ecosystem, but it's a small subset, but it always has been. If you think back to the folks that actually were philosophers and artists in times of old, it was a very small part of the population. However, they made a huge impact. And so we need to ensure that we have the arts in our community. We need to ensure that we also have sports in our community, so we are as well-rounded as possible. And also those two things are catalysts to build community. So sports bring people together. We all of a sudden have a common like. The same occurs with art and if you just go to an art show and walk around and feel the energy around it, we just need more of all of that in order to have really the valley be highlighted as a special place it really is.
Todd:
For the business community, thinking about how we look at higher ed and support higher ed, what should we be doing that we're not right now?
Jessica Pacheco:
Wow, that's a great question. And I must say that the business community here in Arizona has been a great partner and I know that all three universities are very grateful for the collaboration and the partnership. I would encourage the business communities to bring their most complicated problems to a subset of what I like to term the super nerds. They're amazing, just awesome and have today's youngest and sharpest and most innovative minds help you find solution. I think you'll be really surprised at the caliber of talent that we have here in Arizona. It's incredible and we need to be able to showcase it.
Todd:
Well, it's an interesting thought. I'm reading a book about Einstein right now, and really the majority of his great work was when he was in his early twenties and you never really recaptured that. And to think that we could tap into some of these young minds here in Arizona could be really interesting.
Jessica Pacheco:
The other day I was very fortunate to participate and observe a local CEO of a very large company, basically riffing, my kids tell me this is like the new term-
Todd:
Perfect.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah. Riffing with the super nerds on resolving some of the issues in that particular industry. And it was incredible. I mean the ideas, the innovation, the energy, it was just so dynamic. It was really incredible. And so I would encourage your members to avail themselves.
Todd:
Absolutely. I want to pivot a little bit, and when I think about when we started our careers, you and I were basically plunked down-
Jessica Pacheco:
Way back when.
Todd:
Way back when, plunked down into a pretty significant immigration debate.
Jessica Pacheco:
A very significant immigration debate.
Todd:
And kind of it was us. We were supposed to have a lot of support and a lot of people behind us and we turned around and it was Todd and Jessica. That was it. Very uncomfortable for us-
Jessica Pacheco:
Shoulder to shoulder.
Todd:
Back in the day, but we're back now talking about immigration again. What needs to happen? Do we need a federal solution? Should we be looking at it from a state perspective? What are your thoughts?
Jessica Pacheco:
No, do you want the real answer or do you want the plastic answer?
Todd:
I love the real answer.
Jessica Pacheco:
Okay.
Todd:
We always count on just the real answer.
Jessica Pacheco:
I'm going to bottom line it. Immigration is eminently resolvable. We have two political parties that don't want to resolve it because they like the animus that it creates, particularly in the primary part of the voting cycle. And we unfortunately as a country are paying the price for it. Now, we do not have the workforce. We need to meet all of the jobs that we have open right now, nor are we going to have the talent that we're going to need. Now talent is a new currency, in order to stay competitive and really be the best country that we can be, but also the best country in the world. I mean, this is an amazing place. And so to resolve this, frankly, I think we need to take a page out of Canada's book. I think they've been really wise and they have issued a call to global talent that if you have a higher degree and you want to move to Canada to innovate, to invent, to work at a tech company there, they welcome you with open arms and they give you basically residency.
And why we're not doing that is incredible. And to give somebody residency does not mean that they become a citizen. They can if they so choose and they go down a path, but they're here legally. We know who they are and they are typically working. Now we have some really bad characters that are using this current circumstance to smuggle in illegal goods and people, et cetera. I'm not talking about those people. I'm talking about the vast majority of folks that come here because for whatever reason in their country, they can't get a job and they can't feed their families. And so we can resolve this. We choose not to. And frankly Todd, given what we know, I think with hour and a half, two hours, we can probably walk it through, outline the steps, give the technology needs to the super nerds. And I don't know, we could probably be done in a week.
Todd:
It would be a tremendous thing for our [inaudible 00:12:27].
Jessica Pacheco:
But we choose not to do it. And so I want to make sure that I'm really clear on that for other reasons. And it's a choice we're making.
Todd:
Yes. And perhaps it's time for us to let our policymakers know where our priorities are.
Jessica Pacheco:
And we all tiptoe around this issue. We very rarely do hear the raw truth, the bottom line when we are engaging in the policy debate or advocacy around the policy. And it's really unfortunate because we're walking on eggshells on an issue that's creating some pretty significant damage.
Todd:
Absolutely. I want to-
Jessica Pacheco:
And a ton of misinformation.
Todd:
A lot of misinformation unfortunately. And I think one of the things that you did really well is president of AMC, you really focused on the economic relationship with Mexico and now not only Arizona's largest trading partner, but the US's largest trading partner. Talk to us a little bit about that and the importance of that relationship and maybe some of the areas where you're working today.
Jessica Pacheco:
I'd be happy to. Our relationship with Mexico and Canada, I'll focus on Mexico, is one of paramount importance, not only from a geopolitical standpoint, but also from an economic standpoint. We, unfortunately I don't believe have really capitalized or optimized on everything that we could be doing there. I would love to see supply chain from the Pacific Rim move into Latin America, predominantly Mexico, but really throughout the Americas. It would be so much better for us from a security standpoint and a geopolitical standpoint. The relationship that Arizona particularly has with Mexico is one that has been heralded for decades now.
And Todd is at the tip of the spear, if you will, on behalf of Governor Hobbs. And it is hugely important for our businesses here in the State for our jobs, and quite frankly for our cultural richness. Arizona has been really leading in this space for decades, and we are poised to be able to continue to do that. Now there are going to be some really important elections in Mexico. I'm hopeful that with your leadership, Todd, that we will quickly pivot and create the relationships that we need to create in order to capitalize or optimize on that relationship. And so we can continue to have the hundred thousand jobs that are directly supported by trade, so we can continue to be able to have companies like Lucid come here because our proximity to the border, and again, I think there's a lot of misinformation around the relationship that has been used to nefarious intent.
Todd:
Absolutely. And maybe you can share with us, I believe you probably were in the room when there was the discussion between Governor Pavlovich and Governor Ducey on the Lucid location here in Arizona. Can you speak to that a little bit?
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, and first before I get into that, thank you for all your efforts in that space, but also on just economic development in general. Todd's been working for decades here, yeah, no, it is, to help bolster Arizona's economy, really to bring vitality and vibrancy everywhere. And so Lucid came specifically to Arizona because of our relationship with Mexico because then governor could easily call the then governor of Sonora and get her on the phone and have her come up and have her walk through what she could then offer with a sister site in Mexico, typically called [foreign language 00:15:53]. And so we were able to showcase that and it was authentic. We weren't pretending and they captured that sentiment and ran with it. And it's rally, they're not the only company. If you look at our aerospace industry, if you look at go down the list, and I don't know if enough Arizonans actually know that.
Todd:
I agree. And because of that, they had that relationship through the work that the AMC so they could call each other.
Jessica Pacheco:
That's exactly right. And so thank you for leading there, but our universities also have multiple agreements with Mexican universities and have a really robust exchange program, and we need that. We do not have the talent that we need. Even if every single American was employed in the job that they wish they could be employed in, we still don't have the talent that we need. And so we need these special strategic partnerships with other countries so we can draw talent.
Todd:
Well, and I think your point earlier too is really relevant that from a national security perspective, we're watching China starting to save a rattle as it releases to Taiwan. And certainly when you think about chips, there's still a significant amount of chips that are being made there. And if we can bring more of that here, we have more near-shoring. That's a win-
Jessica Pacheco:
It's a huge one.
Todd:
Even if it's a [inaudible 00:17:15] from Mexico or down south from Mexico.
Jessica Pacheco:
And you can make the argument that it even helps on the immigration front too, and most people will not come here if they have a job in their own community that can support their families. We like to stay home. We like our community, we like our people. The other thing that I think is really important that we're not talking enough about is in this space when it comes to trade and chips and what we need, we're currently transitioning from a fossil fuels economy to a metals' economy, and we need both Canada and Mexico and really Latin America to help us fulfill our rare earth minerals needs and our metals needs. We do not have enough mining anywhere. We need 400 new mines across the globe immediately. We need 4,000 more miners immediately, and we have really important lofty goals in this space, and we need to be able to successfully drive towards them. That is not going to happen without more mining.
Todd:
Well, and certainly we think about, to your point, lithium and some of these other important minerals that are found in places like China or Russia. Having that relationship with Mexico really starts to make an impact.
Jessica Pacheco:
Geopolitical, national security, I mean China could unilaterally tomorrow decide that they're not going to send any more metals our way. We would be in a world of hurt.
Todd:
You bet. You mentioned your partner, former Mayor Daniels do a lot of work with our municipalities here in Maricopa County. As it relates to business, talk about the importance of our municipalities and our mayors and economic development.
Jessica Pacheco:
Hugely important, exclamation point. I'm very fortunate to be able to be partnered with Jane Daniels. She and I have multiple businesses together, and she is a dynamo. Really she's America's mayor, and she works very closely with not only Arizona mayors, but really a mayor's network across the country, talking about just this economic development, community development and positioning of communities to ensure economic vibrancy and to ensure opportunity. We need to be intentional about how we build out our economic development plans and what we want our communities to be because if not, we don't want to leave anything to chance for happenstance.
Jen is a very intentional person, and she was very intentional about what happened in Gilbert, which is incredible. If you've been to downtown Gilbert, it's thriving, and that's really happened under her leadership and she helps then mayors here in the state create that plan and move it into execution. A lot of times you'll see a beautiful plan that's on the shelf and it looks really nifty, but nobody ever reads it or nobody ever does anything that's inside of it. I do want to commend Mayor Gallego because I think she is also a person that creates the strategy and then moves it into implementation. That piece is hugely important.
Todd:
Agreed, and when we think about municipalities, so much of that work goes into things that impact people on a daily basis. Other parts are more tangential, like sports. We saw the coyotes, looks like they're going to be departing, but we have some teams here today. When we think about those facilities and the importance of having that ecosystem here in Arizona, we just had the final four, how should we be thinking about maintaining the public infrastructure?
Jessica Pacheco:
I believe that we need to embrace sports in Arizona really with a hug and just not let go. And because I think it's an imperative economic driver of our economy, I also believe that it makes Phoenix cool. It makes the valley cool. That way we can become a mecca for super nerds or a mecca for whatever talent we're trying to draw here. And most importantly, it creates community. It's the one thing that brings us together that, and we just, in today's society, there are a lot of things that divide us, but we have very, very few that actually create community and sports does that for us at every level. So I would propose that we actually step back and look at sports more holistically and more innovatively. I would like to see more programming from a K-12 standpoint. Of all of the women CEOs today in Fortune 500 companies, every single one of them played sports in high school. We need to make sure that we have those offerings in our community as well because it builds so much character, leadership, resilience, tenacity, the ability to work in a team that's so important.
Todd:
And to see what it means to lose.
Jessica Pacheco:
That's exactly right.
Todd:
And rebuild.
Jessica Pacheco:
And rebuild and that resilience piece. We also need to reset athletics in our university programs. It's hugely important part of the college experience, if you will. And it's also the one thing that draws back alumni. It's the sticky piece of it. As much as my colleagues on the board of Regents or even my colleagues within the university structure want to think that it's the accounting class, it just really isn't. It's the team and making sure that it's remembering those Saturday and Friday nights that were special, that you created real friendships with. And then professional sports. I was really sad to see the Coyotes unfortunately leave. I'm really hoping that we can get the minor league team here and then that we can also get whatever expansion team they have coming. I think having all four major sports is important. I'd love to see more soccer as well.
Todd:
Oh, yes.
Jessica Pacheco:
Soccer is going to be a dominant sport.
Todd:
Absolutely. How do we not have an MLS team?
Jessica Pacheco:
We need to.
Todd:
Right.
Jessica Pacheco:
And we need Whitman's teams too. I want to just a shout-out to the WNBA and to the Mercury. They're just an amazing team and an amazing organization.
Todd:
It's amazing what we have here.
Jessica Pacheco:
It is so cool. And so if you haven't gone to a game, I'd encourage you to go to the game. Tickets are not that expensive and it's a really fun time. But back to the infrastructure piece of this, Todd, we need to figure this out. Now I can understand the hesitancy and maybe even the resentment around voting for tax dollars to make really rich people more rich. That's a dynamic that doesn't work. But then how can we structure it so it adds more public benefit then? How can we structure it to say those proceeds lower tuition for in-state college goers or somehow create another public benefit or public good, we can do this people, it's not that complicated.
But again, there are other political factors at play. These are really important, I would say, infrastructure considerations, just like roads and wastewater treatment plants, et cetera. Having robust infrastructure is the only way you build a sustainable, vibrant economy. And we need to figure out, we as Arizonans, how we want to potentially fund this and then systematically start doing it because time is not our friend and we need to ensure that we have the structures in place to build out the community that we want to live in.
Todd:
We certainly don't want to repent over time if we lose a team for not just thinking about ways to look at this, to your point, creatively that everyone's a winner.
Jessica Pacheco:
And thinking about it differently is so important. We get stuck in our little paradigm or our little bubble, and it's the only way we can see the world. And as soon as you step back out of whatever that might be, the possibilities are infinite. There's some really smart people here.
Todd:
Well, and maybe that's why I'll ask you that, this next question is I think you are one of those people. Everyone is, at least in Arizona, and certainly when I go outside of Arizona, people are asking about water and certainly that's something that we're all watching. How should we be thinking about this?
Jessica Pacheco:
So I'm of the frame of mind water is always talked about from a scarcity perspective. I would propose we shift and we talk about it from an abundance perspective because actually we have lots of water. We just don't have it where we want to use it. And so it comes back to being an infrastructure conversation and how and when do we want to pay for the infrastructure? Now we're all really fortunate that we had forefathers and previous political leaders that would make the call that I know that I am not going to benefit from this, but in 25 years my future colleague will because I will invest in roads, in trains and in water treatment plants and everything else.
Todd:
CAP.
Jessica Pacheco:
CAP is a perfect example of that.
Todd:
That's a great example.
Jessica Pacheco:
And we are not doing that today. And I really think that we need a call to action to those that are elected today to make those hard, long-term decisions to build out the infrastructure that we need in order to create the community that we want to live in. But again, it's not that complicated. The political will needs to be there and that's where we're falling short.
Todd:
Yeah, it seems like that's been a theme in our conversation about political will. Well, I've been asking all these questions that I really find fascinating because I know you can answer them and you're really well-versed in them. But what are you doing right now that's really got you excited and getting you out of bed in the morning? Besides the kids world?
Jessica Pacheco:
I'm a managing director in Arizona's largest venture capital firm, AZ-VC, and I love that work. I love working with founders that are coming up with tomorrow's marvel and I love helping them through that business, that initial business evolution, the birth of their business, if you will, and ensuring that they have the right fiscal discipline and right capital in order to launch. I am very fortunate to sit on the board of a local startup, Nuclearn. It's an AI company that helps nuclear power plants and utility companies. Maybe shocking, I know. What I love about the founders Brad and Gerald is that they're so innovative, they think about things so differently than I do in the collaboration between the three of us in helping to move their company forward has really been a special project of mine.
Todd:
It's interesting to watch companies as they go through their life cycle, especially from the founders to that transition to a CEO eventually. And many times founders aren't CEOs.
Jessica Pacheco:
No. Different skill sets.
Todd:
How do you have that conversation? It's a tough one, right?
Jessica Pacheco:
No, right at the beginning.
Todd:
Really.
Jessica Pacheco:
I don't think so. I think if you set expectations right at the beginning and you're able to say, "Hey, most people get all caught up in their ego, and if you can set that aside, you want your company moving forward because your skill set, your superpower is coming up with a concept, is or it to somebody else to implement or give it to somebody else to run with it."
Todd:
You're not the girl.
Jessica Pacheco:
You're not the girl.
Todd:
You're the visionary, but you're not the girl.
Jessica Pacheco:
Right. That's exactly right.
Todd:
And how do people react to that? Do you feel like people understand?
Jessica Pacheco:
It completely depends on emotional maturity. If I need the title to make me feel better about myself, then I'm not going to react to it all that well. If I get that this is not my only time to shine, this is not my only idea and I want the space to be able to go and create another idea, then I'm fine with it.
Todd:
And when you're thinking about some of these companies like this AI company, what are we going to be talking about in a year or two with companies coming to Arizona that you can talk about?
Jessica Pacheco:
That is a great question. There are a couple of things. Obviously the water piece. Do we have enough water? Do we have enough power? And what are we doing to help our electric utilities making sure that we do have enough power that's infrastructure and actually the production of the electron, right? The actual power. And then things are going to be moving so fast, Todd, that we're not going to be able to keep up from a regulatory standpoint. And so we need to figure out, again, back to having our elected leadership really think through, think deeply about how we're going to prepare for basically quantum computing meets AI. And that is quantum computing moves so fast that our minds can't even contemplate how fast it's moving. I'd like to give a shout-out to Dr. Sally Morton at ASU. Her organization runs the Quantum Center at ASU.
If you haven't been down there, go down there. It's amazing. It's nationally recognized. It's where all of our federal agencies and all of the IVs come together and talk about what's happening in that space and how quickly we can expect it to be here. But once it's here, there is no stopping it. And so it is the idea that information... You know what happened when we electrified the world? Remember, we electrified the world and we bought time. It was incredible because we literally bought time. So the day went from eight to 12 hours and all of a sudden we had 24 in which we could do it. We're going to be doing the same thing with information, with data, with analysis. And I have no idea what that's going to create. I don't think anybody does, but it's going to create something marvelous that we're going to need to be able to be prepared to operate in. And we don't know what that is and it's coming soon and I don't think we're doing enough talking about it.
Todd:
Well, I was at a meeting recently of folks who are doing this kind of work and one of the big topics was that their kids who are college age are talking about how to AI-approve their degrees. What about that?
Jessica Pacheco:
That's really a narrow way to look at AI. Think of AI as a tool that enhances. Could you get a nail in a wall by yourself? Sure. Is it so much easier with a hammer? Yeah. Are you cheating if you use a hammer? So again, back to that rote memorization, which used to be the measure as to whether or not you knew something, those days are gone. What we're going to be tapping into, which I think is really exciting, is what do you then do with that information? How can you practically apply it? How do you strategically maneuver through to get the most optimized outcome with that information? And so that we are actually are going to get to leap into, I think a more evolved state when we can focus there.
Todd:
Well, I hate to point this out, but in this conversation you've talked about optimism, abundance, and pragmatism. So I guess the next question is when are you running?
Jessica Pacheco:
Never. When you do my friend.
Todd:
Okay. Well I guess that's never then.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, I'll be your chief of staff. I'll be your bag lady. How's that?
Todd:
Well, I don't want to finish without asking. What are you reading right now?
Jessica Pacheco:
I wish I had time to read. I'm really struggling. I love to read. It's a great pastime of mine, but I just have not had a whole bunch of time. So I read a bunch of white papers, which are-
Todd:
Is that your bedtime reading?
Jessica Pacheco:
Ridiculously boring? No, but what I typically love to read are serial killer mystery novels. The gorier, the better. And I actually have this whole routine that I go through, especially if I'm traveling, I map out the exits and I leave all the lights on and I'll sit there and scare myself as I'm reading it. No, I really enjoy reading as a pastime, but unfortunately I don't get a whole lot of downtime these days.
Todd:
Well, we had Peter Fine. His point to me was I don't read business books. I do enough of that during the day. I need something that helps me relax. I don't know that serial killers would be my solution, but I do get it. I remember one time reading the Shining. I was living in Sedona. It was at night. It was a dark and stormy night and it was terrifying. I was reading the Shining thinking, oh, I don't turn the page.
Jessica Pacheco:
[inaudible 00:32:23] sleeping with all the lights on. All of them, the lamps, the overhead, everything just in case.
Todd:
Well, thank you Jessica for everything you're doing. Obviously you're running a company and you're doing a lot of great work and you're employing people, but also you're adding a lot. And to your point, no one's giving you a pay raise for any of this work. You're doing so much for Arizona. So I want to thank you for that. Before we go, we're going to do a quick lightning round. First job, not professional, just first job.
Jessica Pacheco:
Teaching swimming. Yeah, it was a summer job. I made it up as I was going along and I was basically babysitting for a bunch of five-year-olds and we were in the shallow pool. And I quote "taught" swimming.
Todd:
Well, I liked the fact that you made it up as you went along because in many ways that's life.
Jessica Pacheco:
Right. At least it's been mine.
Todd:
Right. What was your first concert?
Jessica Pacheco:
U2.
Todd:
That's a good one.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah, it was a really good one. It was amazing and it really moved me. Music is incredible. I don't have any talent in that space whatsoever, and I just really appreciate it.
Todd:
So we're not going to get you to do any singing?
Jessica Pacheco:
No.
Todd:
Or karaoke?
Jessica Pacheco:
Or [inaudible 00:33:25] the recorder. Not so much. No. I think karaoke is all about you.
Todd:
We won't go there. And then finally, first car.
Jessica Pacheco:
An old beat up Volvo that was pale blue and it was really, really embarrassing and I was just mortified to have to drive around in it. And now I look back and I'm like just grateful I had a car.
Todd:
Yeah, it's actually a cool car.
Jessica Pacheco:
Yeah. I don't know if I go that far, but it served its purpose and then it died and I had a bicycle and a bus pass for a long time.
Todd:
There you go. That's that grit and determination that we see today.
Jessica Pacheco:
I was like, wow, I really want my own car.
Todd:
Well Jessica, thank you. Appreciate it.
Jessica Pacheco:
No, always a pleasure. And thank you for everything that you do and the Chamber does to make Arizona better. It's awesome.
Todd:
All right.
Jessica Pacheco:
Thank you.