Todd:
Welcome back to the podcast. We are really excited today to have our incoming chairman of the board, who's also the managing partner of Tower Hunter International, Scott Smith. Scott, welcome, so pleased to have you here today.
Scott Smith:
Thank you. Great to be with you, Todd.
Todd:
Well, for those people who maybe aren't familiar with you and your work, maybe tell us a little bit about you, and what you do.
Scott Smith:
Todd, it's just delightful to be with you, and probably the foundation of me and who I am, I'm one of the five original Phoenicians. There's not many of us out there, and so a lot of love for this community, and for the city and the state. It's a thrill to be able to work with members of the chamber. I'm married, 18 grandkids.
Todd:
You're busy.
Scott Smith:
We're busy, and life is good.
Todd:
You married up. I met your wife, she's delightful. You're a lucky guy.
Scott Smith:
I double married up.
Todd:
Yes.
Scott Smith:
She continues to have me, and be happy with our marriage.
Todd:
She's awesome, absolutely. You mentioned, a Native Arizonan. Talk to us a little bit about what you do. I mentioned Tower Hunter, but give people a sense for what that means.
Scott Smith:
I was one of the founding partners of Tower Hunter Executive Search, and we started the firm in 2001. It's been a thrill to serve our clients nationwide during that time. We are a small, boutique executive search firm, primarily focused on healthcare insurance, not for profit. Our work is nationwide, and the focus is on executive positions within those organizations.
Todd:
Certainly, I want to get into that a little bit more here in a few minutes. We also like to always ask, people can look you up, they can see your resume, but tell us something about you that we wouldn't know necessarily from looking at your bio, that we'd find interesting.
Scott Smith:
Probably the thing that many people don't know about me is that I have this love for upholstering furniture, and cars.
Todd:
Really?
Scott Smith:
That's been a love of mine that I learned in high school. I did it to put myself through college, and since that time, it's something I've done for my children, when they marry and et cetera, to upholster furniture for them.
Todd:
That's a great skill.
Scott Smith:
It's great therapy late at night.
Todd:
Yes. Obviously, if all else fails, you can always fall back to that.
Scott Smith:
Yes I could. It's been something I've enjoyed, and most people don't know.
Todd:
That's wonderful, I love that. I've known you for a long time, and I'm glad to know that. Your journey, your professional career, how did you end up doing this kind of work? When you graduated, "This is what I want to do," or did you somehow fall into that?
Scott Smith:
Of course, there's no college where you can get a degree in executive search. After my university education, I went to work for, back in the day, Checker Auto Parts and Yellow Front stores.
Todd:
Oh, yeah.
Scott Smith:
Only the five or 10 original Arizonans are going to know what those two organizations are.
Todd:
I remember Yellow Front.
Scott Smith:
I got experience there, and then ultimately went into retail. In 1999 I went into executive search, and have been in it ever since that time, and frankly, see this as a way to bless families. We have a bit of a saying in our firm, that if an opportunity is not going to be a blessing to a person, then it's not the right job. We look at what we do as something that will be a blessing to families.
Todd:
I think that's such a great way of looking at it, because you really are changing lives with this work.
Scott Smith:
Right.
Todd:
Obviously, a lot of time spent in the workforce in the recruitment side, but also, just in the corporate side of America. What changes have you seen in the workplace in that time? What are some of the most significant changes?
Scott Smith:
Some of the most significant changes are, of course, remote work has become far more important. I have certainly seen organizations restructure, where they're structured around centers of excellence versus just geographical organizations. Leadership has changed through the years-
Todd:
How so?
Scott Smith:
And the way people lead. I'll give you an example. We've been teetering over the last year or so on a recession, and some would say we're in it, others will say we're going to be in it. Todd, we don't have any leaders that have led organizations through recessions. The last time this happened was during the Jimmy Carter administration.
Todd:
You mean inflation?
Scott Smith:
Inflationary times and recessionary times.
Todd:
Yeah.
Scott Smith:
Particularly with inflation.
Todd:
Sure. That's a good point.
Scott Smith:
It is a new world of being able to lead remote workforces, to lead during times that are not typical to lead, which takes a leader that's going to be far more involved in the business, and far more inclusive of hearing ideas from their team.
Todd:
It's stunning to think of that. It's true, the Carter years were the last years where we saw this high inflation, and this uncertainty. Now, those of us in leadership positions, we don't know what that looks like, or what it feels like, and we're having to learn it as we go.
Scott Smith:
That's correct.
Todd:
You talk about this move to a virtual workplace. Is there a correct answer to that question, either remote, all in, hybrid? Is there a right answer to that? No one seems to have one particular way of going.
Scott Smith:
I think just in the last two years, you and I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth. Of course, during COVID, we swung all the way where everything was virtual. I'm starting to see, with my clients, things swinging back to the middle, where there's a hybrid environment. I think the challenge that my clients, and businesses in the chamber are going to wrestle with is, how do they continue to have an innovative business when their staff is remote off times? Innovation happens. It doesn't happen on demand, it happens in impromptu meetings that happen where people go to lunch, or they sit down in one another's cube or office, and they share an idea. We're not accustomed to innovate via Zoom. I think that's going to be the big challenge in these hybrid environments. How do we continue to be innovative?
Todd:
I think that's a good point. I think people talk about whether or not the work's getting done, and you can argue that the work gets done right. The strategy, those things, or innovation, is hard to do over Zoom. As you know, we worked on our strategic plan a lot going into last year, and we had to be in person. We had to mask up, and we did it, but it really necessitated being together in a room.
Scott Smith:
The best ideas come in an impromptu environment.
Todd:
We heard today, we got some innovators together, some disruptors in industry, and their example was Kodak. Kodak always did film, and that's what they were always going to do, and then digital came along, and they couldn't adapt to it. Thinking about leaders for today, how do they have to be different than leaders of just 10 years ago, in terms of this environment that we live in?
Scott Smith:
Well, I think my observation is that leaders of today have to not only be focused on results, but they have to be focused on involving others, which requires building a culture. I think challenges that leaders have is, our behaviors as leaders really are what the culture is. We have to, in a different way than we ever have, walk the talk, and be able to emulate the posters that are on many of our walls, that say, "Here's what our vision is," or what's critical in our business. We have to be seen as those that are actually doing those things, and creating that culture through our own behaviors.
Todd:
It sounds like-
Scott Smith:
I think that's something that leaders are going to have to focus on more than ever.
Todd:
It does, and I think ego seems to play into this, too. You're checking your ego more than you probably had to in the past.
Scott Smith:
It certainly has, and does. We see it every day in the news, leaders that are failing are ones that don't involve others, don't listen to others, and it eventually catches up.
Todd:
You bet. Now, we're going to turn the focus on you. What's your leadership style?
Scott Smith:
If you ask my staff, they'd probably say schizophrenic sometimes, but my style is results-oriented. I will catch most details, but not all. From a detail orientation, I probably am an 80-percenter, but love to charge the hill, and have results. Now, on the other side of the coin, I love to have relationships with people that I work with. I've been blessed with those that I've been surrounded with in my career, to have people that I've worked with that are far better than I in the work that we do.
Todd:
Hire the best people, and then hold them to the metrics that everyone agrees to, it sounds like.
Scott Smith:
That's right.
Todd:
How do you define leadership?
Scott Smith:
Well, my definition would be, great leaders are those that create a culture through their own behaviors.
Todd:
Well, I can't argue with that.
Scott Smith:
It's as simple as that. Once that culture is created, they create an environment where people will lead themselves.
Todd:
I like it. Let's transition now to the chamber. You've been on the board a number of years. You've been a really strong contributor. When I think about leadership, part of it from our perspective is the idea of servant leadership. You've certainly been a servant leader on our board. Now, you're taking the reins. In just a very few short days, we'll be handing over the reins to you. When you think about the chamber for the next year, what are some of the things you'd like to see from the chamber, as we head into the next fiscal year?
Scott Smith:
First of all, I'm just so impressed with the board. The entire board is blessed with a chamber staff, from the CEO throughout the organization, what I would say is one of the best chamber organizations in the country. It's easier as a board member when you have a staff like that. The way I view what we need to accomplish this next year is to continue to build on what we have. We have an obligation as a chamber to develop relationships with our political leaders, and with our business leaders, and with our not-for-profit community in the organization, and knit all those together to create an environment in our city that can accomplish great things. Independently, none of those groups can accomplish what we need to have done.
Todd:
Agreed, I would say the same thing for the board. We need to have everyone at the table. What drives you to be a part of not only the Chamber, but a nonprofit, or a community organization? Clearly, you have enough demands on your time, and you're well compensated for that time. What drives you to devote so much time to organizations like ours?
Scott Smith:
Well, it probably starts with those 18 grandkids that all live here in the community. What kind of education are they going to be getting? What work opportunities are going to be there for them? What environment are they going to live in, relative to affordable housing in Arizona, and relative to our water supply, and other policy issues that we are tackling, and will need to continue to tackle as the chamber works with our elected leaders and with businesses and other organizations? That's what drives me to do it. I don't have much time left in running my business. I'm certainly in an age where it's probably not going to go on for too much longer, but this would be a way that I can give back for my family and others.
Todd:
Well, it's certainly significant, and we don't take it for granted. You mentioned, I think an important point, about the business community being intentional about building relationships with each other, with elected officials, nonprofits. So much now in the political arena is so divisive, and I see members of the business community that would just rather not, and I can understand why. Why do you think that they need to do this, and how?
Scott Smith:
First of all, I think the role that the chamber plays is, get involved in the committees we have around policy issues for our members. Take the time to listen in. Most of them are virtual meetings. Listen in and weigh in, so that the chamber can effectively represent its members, and we do it so successfully, to try advocate for business. First, be involved in those key policy areas would be, to me, the most critical thing that can be done, so that we can know how you feel, and how we can represent your interests.
Todd:
As to the divisiveness, do you feel like we're at a point where America's so divided that democracy is having a hard time functioning? Is there a way back? Is there a way forward?
Scott Smith:
America is so divided, but let's just take care of our own right here. My experience over the last year or so is, we do have a mayor that's listening, and has been a friend of the chamber. We have a governor that's listening, and a friend of the chamber. While there may be differences politically, they're listening, they want to hear what we feel needs to be done. I think we can be different here in the city of Phoenix, and in Arizona.
Todd:
Agreed, and I think that's what makes us so strong. You referenced the workforce side. Obviously, you're well aware of the challenges we're facing not only in Arizona, but nationally on the workforce front. Where should the chamber really be focusing those workforce efforts? Obviously, we're in some of the high schools, we're talking to industry. Where else should we be looking? Do you think this is, long-term, something we should continue to do?
Scott Smith:
Absolutely. As you know, Todd, all signs point west across this country. What is the city of Phoenix now, greater Phoenix? 5 million people, projected to be nearly 6 million in the next five or six years. We have to have an education system that's going to support the number of people we have, and that education system needs to improve. The Chamber has made a huge focus on us improving that, so that we have more of our students in high school that are graduating with meaningful AA degrees. I think we need to improve there, and expand that, and get others involved with us in that effort, to create that workforce that is ready. Now, the most critical part of that, and I think that we've been leading out in the chamber in this way, we have to listen to business so that we know, and our educators know, what is it that business needs? What are the skills we need?
Todd:
It's such a good point.
Scott Smith:
We're on our way, but we need to continue.
Todd:
Well, it's easy to point the finger at the education system, but if we're not talking to them, and explaining what we need and how, then we're setting them up to fail. I want to go back to your business. Obviously, you could be anywhere. You do work nationally. What keeps you in Arizona, from a business perspective?
Scott Smith:
Well, we love this town, and this state, and it's got everything our family needs now. We have clients across the country, and as I often tell clients, I live where I live, and I'll get on a plane and come see you. We live here just because of the quality of life, and we want to continue to protect that. The type of business I'm in, I can run it from anywhere, and clients are good with that.
Todd:
Obviously, it's a good place to do business. If policymakers are listening, or others, what are some of the headwinds in doing business here in Arizona? What are some of the challenges?
Scott Smith:
Well, I'm going to go back to a couple of things I've already said. I think housing is a big deal. For firms like mine that are recruiting people to Arizona, affordable housing is an issue, and availability of housing is an issue. Our school systems are, in so many ways very good, but there are opportunities. I had an employer tell me the other day, "We try and recruit people to come here, and they can't get their kids into certain school systems because they're filled up, and there are just long wait lists." That can't be forever with a community like ours, that's growing. It's going to take a partnership between our elected officials, between businesses, school districts, et cetera, to make sure we have the brick and mortar to be here.
Todd:
It is such a important point. I know, when I talk to colleagues for instance in LA, they feel like the housing discussion is almost impossible to tackle, because it's just so out of control. Here, we still have some opportunity, and certainly, some private sector solutions we can bring to the table. The same thing goes for education. We have pockets of excellence, and we have, I think, really amazing teachers out there. I think this is an opportunity for us to do something proactively. It's blocking and tackling. This isn't reinventing the wheel.
Scott Smith:
That's right.
Todd:
As you talk to people coming into the workforce, and thinking about my son, who eventually will be in the workforce here in a few years, what advice are you giving to young people coming into the workforce?
Scott Smith:
Probably most important is to be dedicated and diligent, and demonstrate that you're all-in. With some of the younger workers now, there's this desire to, what's the old slogan, have it your way? Recognize that organizations will hire you not only for your professional skill, but your willingness to be involved, be dedicated, go the extra mile. That would be my advice.
Todd:
I think it's great advice, but would you give that advice to a Gen Xer back in the day? Is this particular to the millennials and the Gen Zers of today?
Scott Smith:
You and I, we go way back, and I think the same advice could be given all along the way over the years. I think it is consistent. Organizations I work with, even though a person may have talent, if they're not all-in with the vision and mission of the organization, they'll be exposed quickly, and they won't fit in.
Todd:
It is true. Those people stand out, don't they?
Scott Smith:
Yeah, they do. Those that demonstrate that they're all-in to what the organization is doing, regardless of where you're at on your skillset, you're going to find, and they are going to find that they're going to fit in much better.
Todd:
I'd like you to maybe put out your crystal ball, and I want to ask you about the future. The example that I'm going to use is, there's a story about London, at the turn of the last century was doing its master plan, and they planned for "Parking" for 2 million horses. Of course, that quickly went by the wayside. You think about all the industries that changed as a result, thinking about the future here, even the next 10 to 15, 20 years, how do you think the workforce, and the demand for labor is going to change? Thinking just about AI, and the writer's strike, and thinking that AI's going to take their jobs. What does this look like in the future?
Scott Smith:
That's a very good question. I think the future is certainly going to involve some AI. Education is going to play a big role. I think the workforce is going to be filled with those students, or those high school grads that are very focused on what they want to do. The service industry is going to continue, but those that get an education are going to have to focus their careers on specific skills that are going to be needed.
Todd:
Thinking about, for instance, executive recruiting and AI, let's just think about Chat GT, or GP, or whatever it's called. How would that change your industry? You can actually have a machine write up, for instance, so much of what you're currently having to think up. How will that change your industry, and what will that mean for people?
Scott Smith:
Well, I think it could change it some, but in my industry, most executives want the individual touch of a recruiter that they work with to help them through a process of going from one job to the other. Where AI can affect it is our ability to find that potential candidate. That's what is going to speed up in the future.
Todd:
That's the secret sauce of the work that you do. I know, because you helped us with the search, and it was extraordinarily successful. Well, I want to thank you Mr. Chairman, hopefully Aaron will let me say that now, for what you've done for the last several years, and we look forward to this upcoming year. I know you and I have talked, we have some big plans.
Scott Smith:
We do.
Todd:
I Would love to have you come back and provide a briefing when we're well underway. Before we let you out, we're going to do a quick lightning round with you. You know how this goes, you've been around long enough. First job that you had? It could have been in grade school, high school.
Scott Smith:
For those that that have been in Phoenix a long time, the first job was a busboy at Neptune's Table, a seafood restaurant.
Todd:
Where was that?
Scott Smith:
In central Phoenix.
Todd:
Neptune's Table. Where was it?
Scott Smith:
Boy, I'm going to have to remember. It's gone now. It's 16th Street and Northern, something like that. I can't remember.
Todd:
You were a busboy?
Scott Smith:
I was a busboy.
Todd:
Nice. What did you learn?
Scott Smith:
That was foundational for me. I learned that if you are in the food service business, you hustle.
Todd:
Yeah.
Scott Smith:
I learned to just, in my career, hustle, and to work hard.
Todd:
Well, I think you learned to appreciate the people who are serving. Dream job? I know you have an amazing job now, but what would be the dream job?
Scott Smith:
My father was a high school coach in cross country and track. Dream job would be to be a high school coach.
Todd:
Wouldn't that be awesome? What sport?
Scott Smith:
Cross country and track.
Todd:
Awesome.
Scott Smith:
I would love to do that, and love working with high school students. It's phenomenal.
Todd:
I have to agree, that that would be a lot of fun. Final question, your superhero alter ego, who would you be, if you could pick any of one of these superheroes out there?
Scott Smith:
Oh, Kevin Costner, "Field of Dreams."
Todd:
"Field of Dreams." Okay, not necessarily a superhero, but certainly iconic.
Scott Smith:
Yes. Okay, let's go superhero. It would have to be Spider-Man.
Todd:
Why?
Scott Smith:
Just the ability to swing from building to building, and all that. My grandkids love that character.
Todd:
Well, if my son was here, he would say you're 100% correct. He just saw the last Spider-Man movie and loved it, so right answer.
Scott Smith:
Thank you.
Todd:
Scott, thank you.
Scott Smith:
Todd, thank you.
Todd:
Thanks again for spending so much time. We appreciate you my friend.
Scott Smith:
I look forward to working with you this year.