| Todd Sanders: | Well, welcome back to the podcast. We are privileged and honored to have Attorney General Kris Mayes joining us today. Welcome, and thank you for joining us.
| Kris Mayes: | Thanks for having me, Todd. It's good to be here.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, it's a pleasure. Well, why don't we start by maybe learning a little bit more about you. Clearly we saw and heard a lot from you during the elections and since, but maybe tell us a little bit about who you are, and then maybe perhaps something that we wouldn't find on your bio.
| Kris Mayes: | Oh, that's an interesting question. Okay. Well, I have been attorney general now for almost a year, but prior to that I was a professor at ASU. So I spent about 13 years at ASU teaching energy law, utility law because prior to that I spent, as you know, about seven-and-a-half years on the Arizona Corporation Commission. So I was a utility regulator. So as you know, that's a statewide office.
| Todd Sanders: | And quasi-judicial, in a way.
| Kris Mayes: | Quasi-judicial, correct. And we actually also prosecuted civil securities fraud and worked closely with the attorney general's office in that capacity, because we would sometimes hand off cases to them to prosecute from a criminal standpoint. But primarily that job, as you know, is focused on regulating the state's largest utilities. So I served two terms. Back then I was a Republican, now I'm a Democrat, so I've been both. And prior to that I was a newspaper reporter going way back to the 1990s. I covered politics and the legislature and the governor for the Arizona Republic and then the Phoenix Gazette. So I've had a wonderfully wild and kind of interesting career
| Todd Sanders: | Renaissance woman.
| Kris Mayes: | I guess. I don't know. That's a positive spin on it, I suppose. But my mother used to say I couldn't keep a job so I don't know what it is. But I've been blessed to be able to have all these roles and I think all of them, I have been very useful to me as attorney general. I sort of look back on even my time as a journalist and realize that that taught me a very valuable skill, which is how to ask tough questions of powerful people, powerful entities. And even more importantly, how to ask the right follow-up questions, whether you're talking to a utility or you're talking about prosecuting fentanyl and protecting our water supplies and all the things I'm sure we'll get into today.
| Todd Sanders: | And I think it's interesting how careers can meander, but they lead somewhere and obviously that's what happened for you.
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, it feels, in a lot of ways, it led to a place that it was meant to lead for me. I feel as I sort of conclude my first year as attorney general, I kind of feel like,, in some ways this was the job I was meant to do. And I just really want to, at the end of the day, be the best attorney general Arizona has ever seen and ever had. And in my mind, Grant Woods was.
| Todd Sanders: | [Inaudible 00:03:24].
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, absolutely. And he was one of my first co-chairs before he passed away, and he actually encouraged me to get into the race. I don't know that I would have run without that, without his encouragement. So if I can meet his standard, I actually work off of his desk. His widow Marlene Galan Woods called me and asked me if I wanted to have his desk. I wanted her to get it out of storage, and I said, "Absolutely. I would love that Marlene." So every day I go to work and I work off of his desk.
| Todd Sanders: | A nice way to honor him.
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, I hope so
| Todd Sanders: | Keep mom happy now that you're keeping a job.
| Kris Mayes: | Exactly. That, too. And you had asked me one thing that's not on my bio. Well, I was a very successful badminton player in high school.
| Todd Sanders: | Really?
| Kris Mayes: | Yes, I love badminton and almost won the state doubles championship, but came this close to winning the state doubles championship.
| Todd Sanders: | And what's the key to being a good badminton player?
| Kris Mayes: | Being quick on your feet.
| Todd Sanders: | I can imagine, that thing really moves quickly.
| Kris Mayes: | Absolutely. The bird moves quickly, so you got to be ready.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, it's a good metaphor probably for where you are today.
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, kind of. Yeah.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, clearly the attorney general constitutional officer, immense responsibility and power within the state of Arizona. Talk to us a little bit about the role of the attorney general and the attorney general's office.
| Kris Mayes: | So the attorney general is what I like to refer to as the lawyer for the people. I want people to view me as a lawyer for the people. It's my job to look out for and protect all Arizonans, whether that has to do with environmental protection, fighting the fentanyl crisis, protecting our water supplies. I've filed major lawsuits on behalf of the people of Arizona. So you've seen a number of those get filed over the last year. The attorney general plays an important role in prosecuting and fighting consumer fraud, but DAG also represents almost all of the state agencies. So not all, but there are a few carved out state agencies like AHCCCS and the Department of Water Resources that I don't represent, but by and large I'm the lawyer for state agencies.
| Todd Sanders: | So if DEQ, for instance, gets sued, you're essentially their attorney?
| Kris Mayes: | Correct.
| Todd Sanders: | Okay.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes, and so that's a big part of this job. And we also have a division, a very, very large division called the Child and Family Protective Division, which is the office that represents DCS in child protection cases. So really tough cases.
| Todd Sanders: | I imagine.
| Kris Mayes: | Really tough. And when I came into office, that division was 40% down on personnel, and these are lawyers who... And we have lawyers who are carrying caseloads that are far too high. So one of the things I've been trying to do is increase the budget for that division, which is so important to protecting our kids, our most vulnerable kids. And so that's been a real big priority of mine.
| Todd Sanders: | Glad to hear that. What's the biggest misnomer about the AG's office or the AG's role?
| Kris Mayes: | Great question. Well, it's interesting. I think the biggest misnomer is that sort of is around the fact that I think most people think that it is almost entirely related to prosecutions. And I think a lot of people maybe think that we prosecute different cases than we do. Our office, we have a criminal division that is incredibly important and I'm so proud of our criminal division. We prosecute the biggest drug cases in the state of Arizona. We are on the tip of the spear. We are the tip of the spear when it comes to going after the drug cartels that are bringing the fentanyl into Arizona at a record rate. And then we do other big criminal cases. We don't do what county attorneys do, which is, for the most part, we don't do homicides and we don't do other, some of the smaller, I won't call small, but individual criminal cases. So I guess that would be the misnomer.
| Todd Sanders: | When people make that mistake.
| Kris Mayes: | They make that leap, but understandable given the name of the office.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely. And clearly given your level of experience, it seemed to me from the cheap seats that when you came into office, you organized pretty quickly and you got going, which makes some sense. What are some of your top priorities now that youre really heading down the highway?
| Kris Mayes: | We really wanted to hit the ground running. Because, Todd, one of the things that I came into this office understanding having been a corporation commissioner, is how precious every single day is. When you are handed by the voters, and in my case it's by only 280 votes, but nevertheless, not a landslide victory but nevertheless, I understood having been in office before, how precious every single day is and how hard we have to work on behalf of the people of Arizona, how much work we have to do. So my priorities are really around protecting the people of Arizona. Number one, we are fighting this fentanyl scourge. Number two, I'm very insistent about protecting our water supplies. As you know, I've been very critical of the state government's decisions in the past to allow the Saudis, for instance, to come in and pump our groundwater for free without any limits. And I've been fighting that.
| | We also are standing, have stood up an elder abuse task force to try to protect our elderly. We, as you know, we have an enormous number of seniors moving to Arizona. We have one of the fastest growing senior population in the country, and elder abuse is on the rise. And so I've put together a task force. We are going to attack this problem like no other AG has ever attacked it, both from a criminal standpoint, we will prosecute criminal elder abuse, physical elder abuse, financial elder abuse. And we're going to use a civil statute that's never been used before by the AG to really hold nursing homes and long-term care facility homes that are bad actors that have allowed this kind of abuse to go on system as systematically. We're going to hold them responsible for that from a civil standpoint.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, certainly important, just like you mentioned kids, our elders as well, and certainly going after bad actors. Aside from nursing homes, where are the areas are you seeing elder abuse?
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, well, we see it not just in nursing homes. We see it in smaller care homes. So the sort of group home setting, we also see it on from individual caretakers, people who, in some cases, unfortunately fleece the very people that they were designated to take care of-
| Todd Sanders: | Something with power of attorney that can...
| Kris Mayes: | Exactly, they can take people's money or physically abuse them. And so we're going to try to go after all of that. We've got several prosecutions already underway or completed, and I think you're just going to see us be very, very aggressive on that for the next three years.
| Todd Sanders: | Certainly an important thing to focus on.
| Kris Mayes: | It is because if we don't do it, it's just not going to get done. Our county attorneys are swamped with other issues, local law enforcement swamped with other issues. So if the AG doesn't focus on it's probably not going to get done.
| Todd Sanders: | You bet. Well, you've mentioned fentanyl, and I can't tell you how much I appreciate the fact that you're thinking about that. And clearly we are sort of at the epicenter it seems like right now in terms of what's happening at the border, border security. Clearly much of that's federal, but where have you been engaged in that mix in terms of border security, the fentanyl crisis? Obviously you are doing something on that.
| Kris Mayes: | Well, you're absolutely right. Arizona is at the epicenter of the fentanyl crisis, and there is absolutely no doubt about that. I say that Arizona is the fentanyl funnel for the rest of the country. Last year in 2022, Todd, the DEA seized in Arizona alone, 33 million fentanyl pills. Now to give you a sense of the scope of that, Texas, they seized 1.2 million. So everybody sort of thinks Texas, it's always Texas. Well, it's actually not. The drug cartels are using Arizona like UPS. They're bringing it across our border. They're repackaging it and they're sending it to other states. And we know this because we are doing these major investigations against the drug cartels, and we are seeing it through our law enforcement tools, which I won't get into, but we are seeing that.
| | And so this is a crisis for our state, and it absolutely is a border related issue. We cannot, and I've said this to people in Washington DC who are in my own party, and I'll say it here, you cannot address fentanyl without using the B word, border. And it's coming through our ports of entry, but it's also coming across the border. Increasingly as our border patrol are forced to deal with the self-surrenders that are going on and the immigration crisis. And so we need more resources. I've said this to the DEA administrator in DC, I've spoken to the vice president about this, the vice president of the United States about this. We need more prosecutorial resources, we need more DEA agents. There are not enough DEAs-
| Todd Sanders: | Is there a shortage? It sounds like there's a border patrol shortage as well.
| Kris Mayes: | There's a border patrol shortage. There is a DEA agent shortage in Arizona. And it's almost like the federal government has not woken up to the fact that we are the epicenter of this crisis. And it deeply frustrates me. And I am doing everything I can, except light my hair on fire, to try to make that case to the federal government. And the sheriffs are frustrated. I talk to sheriffs all the time about this and we are doing everything we can to prosecute these cases, to investigate these cases. And you'll see more from my office in terms of our getting as aggressive as I can from the state standpoint. But make no mistake that this is a crisis, and we have got to do more to solve it because this stuff not only goes to other states, but some of it stays a lot if it stays right here in Arizona. I mean, Todd, they're now saying that seven out of 10 fentanyl pills have a potentially lethal dose. Let's just think about that [inaudible 00:15:59]. I mean, I have a 10-year-old daughter and...
| Todd Sanders: | It's terrifying, isn't it?
| Kris Mayes: | It's terrifying. And I talk to her every day and I encourage parents to talk to their kids, tell them, "Do not put anything in your mouth that you don't know where it came from." So we know that it's a different kind of drug. It's different from cocaine, it's different from meth, and pretty much every other kind of drug. It's very compact. It's much easier to carry across the border and it is very, very lethal.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, I'm glad to see us not admiring the problem like what we're seeing in DC, and that obviously has to change. And that's for all of us to make sure that they know. The delegation understands and the rest of Congress understands.
| Kris Mayes: | To the degree the business community can help make this case because it is going to continue to affect our kids. And it's from the standpoint of attracting businesses to our state, I think it's something we have got to get a handle on.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely. Shifting gears a little bit, you mentioned consumer protection. What are you seeing out there in terms of some of the common scams and approaches that people are taking to target Arizona?
| Kris Mayes: | It's really, really scary. This is also a scary area because Arizona, we obviously have a booming population, booming economy, and a booming senior population. We are increasingly being targeted by fraudsters, scam artists, whether that's telemarketing or scams over the telephone. We are seeing increasingly AI scams, which is super scary and...
| Todd Sanders: | It's easy to fall for some of that stuff.
| Kris Mayes: | It really is. And we're seeing people's voices being cloned and scam artists calling people, attempting to extort them by using people's actual voices that are cloned. All they really need is a couple of seconds of your voice to clone your voice and try to trick somebody into believing that they're holding you hostage. And so what our advice to people is, if you get a call like that, first of all, arrange ahead of time with your loved ones to have a word that only you know.
| Todd Sanders: | Because that whole thing about, "We've got your kids in Mexico, send money," that kind of thing so that there has to be some sort of safe word or...
| Kris Mayes: | What's the safe word? So then you can ask that person, "What's the word?" If they can't tell you the word, hang up. Also, ask that person to call you back on a phone number that you both know. So if they're not calling you from the phone number-
| Todd Sanders: | Call me on mom's phone, that kind of thing.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes. Yeah, exactly. So just there's some simple steps like that that you can take to protect yourself against those kinds of scams. We're also seeing a rise in gift card scams, which is something to think about here during the holidays.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely.
| Kris Mayes: | And then we're seeing a rise in romance scams, especially against, again, our senior population. So much money being lost to these romance scams where someone will get you on Facebook, lure you in with the promise of love. I mean, we all want love. We all want to be loved, right? But beware, if somebody starts asking you for money on Facebook or Instagram-
| Todd Sanders: | Red flag.
| Kris Mayes: | ... red flag. If somebody, whatever it is, if somebody's using a high pressure tactic to try to get you to send them money, red flag. If somebody wants you to send them money over PayPal or through gift cards, red flag. Try to use a credit card if you're paying for something, if at all possible, so then you can get your money back if it turns out to be something you didn't want.
| Todd Sanders: | And if you're getting those or you're a victim, is it appropriate then to get in touch with your office?
| Kris Mayes: | Yes, absolutely. Please call us, file a complaint with us because we can potentially help get your money back. Sometimes we can't. Some of these romance scams, literally money is being wired to Nigeria, to African countries. And literally we have law enforcement tools where we can see this stuff literally going out of Sun City to African countries. And unfortunately, once it's in the wire, it's done. It's very hard to get that back.
| Todd Sanders: | So you stop the bleeding at that point.
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, exactly. So that's why we want to stop it from starting from the jump, right? You want to try to prevent people from being victimized. So I would say, yeah, please get ahold of us at azag.gov/consumer. You can also call our office. We do want you to file a complaint with us. We want to be able to try to help you. We'll do everything we can to try to get your money back for you. And then the other good thing about that is that we can start to see patterns and that can help me... If there's a systemic pattern around a certain fraudulent company, then we can file a larger lawsuit against that company potentially.
| Todd Sanders: | When you can show that there was a lot of damage.
| Kris Mayes: | Exactly.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, that takes me to my next point. Last week, I was with a group of chamber leaders from around the country. And I will say probably of the top three items, the top one was organized retail theft. And I think we're in a much better place, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, than a lot of our friends around the country. But it doesn't mean we can take our eye off the ball. Talk to us a little bit about the issue and what you're doing about that.
| Kris Mayes: | This is a really interesting one. And you're right. We do have a very organized retail theft task force and effort here, both at the state level. And I think the Maricopa County attorney is starting to do work in this area as well. But we are doing everything we can to prevent this rise in essentially in organized efforts by gangs. These are essentially gangs.
| Todd Sanders: | And they're not just people walking in to Target and pulling things out. There's a process.
| Kris Mayes: | And of course that happens, shoplifting happens. But these are generally organized gangs of criminals that are targeting retail stores, large and small, but often large or mid-sized stores, Target, Walmart, increasingly pharmacies and walking in with multiple people and brazenly taking goods out. And the stores don't want to confront because-
| Todd Sanders: | Dangerous.
| Kris Mayes: | ... dangerous stuff, and you can understand that. So we have been engaging in sting operations to try to stop this. We successfully stopped a criminal gang that was stealing baby formula from major retailers. That was earlier this year. I did a press conference where we literally lined up all the baby formula that we had seized from this gang and from these. And they were doing it not just in Arizona, it was California, Arizona, I think Texas and New York, and transporting it to New York and selling it in bodegas in New York. And so this is bad stuff. This costs consumers because the retailers then have to pass the rising cost of goods on to the rest of us.
| Todd Sanders: | It's not victimless.
| Kris Mayes: | No, it's really not victimless. So we're trying to be really aggressive on this. We're going to have another announcement I think this week actually.
| Todd Sanders: | Good.
| Kris Mayes: | And we're going to continue to do these investigations and hopefully create a deterrent effect. So these folks think twice about doing this, especially in our state, but it's a real problem.
| Todd Sanders: | Do we need to think about statutory changes to give you more tools, our county attorneys more tools to prosecute?
| Kris Mayes: | I think that's a good question. I'll think about that. More than that, I think more money from the legislature would be a good thing. Additional funding so we can hire more prosecutors. I mean, this is just one of those things where the more prosecutors that you have, the more investigators you have to go after this, the more we can do it. And the interesting thing about organized retail theft and our ORT task force is we work very closely with business on this. All of our meetings are both law enforcement and business, and we work together to try to really target where it's happening and target the actual criminal activity itself. And it's a really good partnership.
| Todd Sanders: | And certainly that's a nice one to put close for business on in terms of that [inaudible 00:25:52].
| Kris Mayes: | In terms of that, yeah.
| Todd Sanders: | Happen to be closed for business on that.
| Kris Mayes: | Exactly.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, it's hard to believe that we're coming up on elections again, which I think we're all ready for it to be done. But certainly nationally, the topic of elections is important. What's the role of the AG's office in ensuring we have a safe and secure election going forward?
| Kris Mayes: | Well, I mean, we play a really important role, and I campaigned on this. I campaigned on the fact that we were going to protect our elections in Arizona. We were going to support our election officials who unfortunately are increasingly coming under attack unjustly, unjustifiably in some quarters. And so what I've said is, number one, we will not tolerate any threats of violence or actual violence against our elections officials. I think Secretary of State Fontes will tell you that fully two-thirds of all of our counties have now seen the resignation of a top election official due to these kinds of threats, including my home county of Yavapai. And that's awful. That's really bad for democracy.
| Todd Sanders: | Impossible to believe that that could happen here in this country.
| Kris Mayes: | Right? And it's very, very bad for our democracy when we have good people walking away from the job because they feel threatened by folks who have been ginned up, frankly, ginned up by the former president to believe that we don't have safe and secure elections in Arizona. We do. The other thing that I'm going to do, and I have promised to do, is to make sure that county officials follow the law.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely.
| Kris Mayes: | I have issued some letters and we have taken actions to make it clear that we have election laws. Those laws have to be followed, and we're not going to tolerate the deviation from those laws.
| Todd Sanders: | Again, an area where I think we've done a really good job going back decades in terms of our voting system, mail-in voting, which is top notch.
| Kris Mayes: | And that's the other thing that I've vowed to protect when I was running for this office is mail-in voting. I mean, almost what 90% of us use it now. It is very secure and it's not going anywhere. And I think the vast majority of Arizonans would be upset if they saw that happen.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely. It's such a part of who we are now.
| Kris Mayes: | Exactly. And we pioneered it, right. And what's ironic to me is it was actually Republicans that pioneered it-
| Todd Sanders: | It's true.
| Kris Mayes: | ... back in the early 1990s.
| Todd Sanders: | And it works well.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes.
| Todd Sanders: | So a few hot button issues since... I'm sorry, I keep throwing all these issues at you, hot button issues for the business community. One of those was a prevailing wage. You issued an opinion a few months back. Talk to us a little bit about that opinion.
| Kris Mayes: | So we issued an opinion that I think affects the cities that are considering or have considered adopting a prevailing wage provision or ordinance. And we thought it was appropriate to provide that guidance. We'll see which cities decide to move forward with that and which cities decide not to. That's up to them. But we felt like that it was lawful, we wanted to make that clear. I think we got a request from a legislator, if I'm not mistaken. I'd have to go back and look at that. But we got a request for an opinion on that and we provided that guidance.
| Todd Sanders: | Yeah, I think for the business community, I think certainty is always is helpful. I know there was obviously the initiative and then there's the prevailing wage itself, and I think having that clarity is going to be important. The other one I know you've had some concerns with on the grocery store side, Kroger, Albertsons merger. Talk to us a little bit about that.
| Kris Mayes: | This has been a big, turned into a big part of my year actually. So we decided to launch an investigation, an antitrust investigation, because we also have antitrust laws in Arizona, and I have an antitrust and privacy division section in the civil division of the AG's office. So we decided to launch this investigation to determine whether I should try to block this proposed merger between Albertsons and Kroger. And that's essentially the two holding companies that operate Safeway, Fry's, and Smith's. These two holding companies own 250 grocery stores in Arizona, and they employ 35,000 Arizonans.
| Todd Sanders: | So a big number of Arizonans.
| Kris Mayes: | Big number of Arizonans. It's a big part of our economy. And what we heard, Todd, I did about 10 town halls on this all across Arizona. And what we heard from a lot of folks is that if this merger were to go be consummated and approved by the FTC and allowed to go through by AG's, it could really have a pretty devastating impact, not only on the people who would be laid off as a result of store closures, but also on economies, local economies, small businesses, mid-sized businesses that are especially located around those stores. So when you think about it, there are a lot of stores and shopping malls-
| Todd Sanders: | Attached to the...
| Kris Mayes: | ... attached to the anchor tenant, which is the grocery store. Places like Chino Valley said that. Places like Sarita down in Southern Arizona. And so there's a real deep concern about the impact of that on surrounding businesses. And then others have opposed it formally like the Western Growers Association. So farmers essentially worried about losing a major buyer of food. And then I'm personally really concerned about the potential creation of pharmacy deserts and fresh food deserts if these stores were to close, especially in rural Arizona.
| Todd Sanders: | So what's the status then at this point?
| Kris Mayes: | So we're really close to a decision. I would say watch the space over the next couple of weeks. I think the FTC is probably also very close to a decision. We'll have to decide. If the FTC decides to try to block the merger, then we would have the potential to join their lawsuit or file our own lawsuit. And that's sort of the decision point. To be honest with you, I can envision a scenario in which we would not oppose this merger. In other words-
| Todd Sanders: | Even if the FTC gave it the green light, you would still oppose?
| Kris Mayes: | Yes. I mean, I can't imagine a scenario in which we would support, I would support this merger. I just don't think it's good for Arizona.
| Todd Sanders: | Okay. We can look for that soon.
| Kris Mayes: | Soon. Yeah.
| Todd Sanders: | You mentioned doing a listening tour, and I think that's so important. Part of that I think includes a business advisory council. Talk to us a little bit about that and how people can perhaps get involved.
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, I'd love to see more businesses get involved in that advisory council. I do think it's really important for me as attorney general, just this one conversation you and I have had, it shows how broad and sweeping this job is.
| Todd Sanders: | I still wonder how you sleep at night.
| Kris Mayes: | It's a lot and it is a lot in a wonderful way, but it is a lot. And so much of what any attorney general does impacts the business community. And so I thought it was important to create a business advisory council so that I could let them know what we're thinking about, let them know what we're working on, but also hear from them. What are their concerns? What's the business community thinking about? Organized retail theft from a regulatory standpoint, what's impacting you? From a tax standpoint, what's impacting you? Is Fentanyl impacting you? How's that being viewed? What about education? What about our education system? What do you need to see in terms of our education system? I personally think we need to support our schools more than we are in this state. And I think businesses believe that, too. But this is just a great opportunity for us to get together occasionally and understand what one another is doing and working on.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely. Well, I think there's a lot of willingness on the side of the business community to be a part of that solution and have a voice with your office. So thank you for that. Thinking about you're just a year in, you've got a long way to go. What's your long-term vision and goals for the office if you think about one or two?
| Kris Mayes: | So ultimately, my long-term vision for the office and for the state is I want to build this office into something that really truly can serve as the lawyer for the people of Arizona and protect Arizonans. And I want to build it up to that. And we already have so many dedicated public servants working day in and day out, in some cases risking their lives for Arizona, especially those people who are special agents, who are working to fight the drug cartels and our prosecutors who are going after the drug cartels.
| | But I want to make sure that Arizona continues to be and is a place where people can raise their families, and work here and bring companies here, and create companies here. And do so knowing that it's going to be a sustainable place to live, a safe place to live and work and raise your family, and a place that will be somewhere you want to stay forever. And this is such an amazing state. It's a beautiful state with some of the most amazing people in our country, and they deserve the opportunity to raise families safely, securely, and sustainably and be able to stay here forever.
| Todd Sanders: | Absolutely. At the beginning of our talk, you mentioned Grant Woods. You've mentioned a number of Republicans. I wonder, what would your advice be for someone who's looking at running for the legislature, for instance, and should they be afraid to reach across the aisle? Should they be afraid to talk to somebody from another party to perhaps cut a deal when maybe they're going to get primaried? What's the way around this? I mean, the idea that we can't talk to somebody with a different letter behind their name seems to be sort of the way we're going, but you seem to be someone who's not afraid to do that.
| Kris Mayes: | I'm not because I believe in that. I think that's how, especially a state like Arizona that is so closely divided. My goodness, I won, as we were talking about, won by 280 votes. So I mean, it is a closely divided state. And I won because for a lot of reasons, I guess, but a lot of Republicans voted for me, and I know that. A lot of independents voted for me. And we have to get back to a place where we're willing and able to reach across the aisle. I do think it's easier for a Democrat to do that these days, to be honest with you, politically. I think it's very hard for Republicans.
| | It's interesting you raise this question because this morning we've been working with a Republican on an issue and wondering whether he's going to be able to continue to work with me on it. And I just think that for them, for Republicans, unfortunately, the primary has become such everything... There are so many litmus tests for Republicans nowadays that it is very hard for them to work across the aisle. But I think we've got to get back to a place where we can. We just saw that this week, Sandra Day O'Connor passed in one of the greatest Arizonans, if not the greatest Arizonan ever to live. And she was famous for saying, "We can disagree without being disagreeable."
| Todd Sanders: | It is possible.
| Kris Mayes: | It is possible. We've seen it before. And I think we have to get back to that place. And we also need elected officials who don't put their own careers ahead of public policy, good public policy. And I hope that at the end of the day, people will say that about me, that she didn't put her political career ahead of doing what was right. And that includes working across the aisle. So again, this is a precious opportunity, but this might be my only term as attorney general. And if it is-
| Todd Sanders: | You're okay with that.
| Kris Mayes: | I'm okay with that. I intend to run again. But if I lose and if I lose because for something that I did that I thought was right, then so be it. That's okay. I'll go back to being a private citizen and that'll be that. But we can't have the situation number one, where people are afraid to work with each other because they have a D or an R behind their name. And we can't have a situation where politicians think that the whole world revolves around keeping that job.
| Todd Sanders: | Yeah. That is a challenge. Well, thank you for spending so much time with us and for the work you're doing on behalf of our state. We're going to finish off with a quick lightning round. Very easy, I promise. So obviously Yavapai County, you're probably in Prescott. First job.
| Kris Mayes: | First job? Job period?
| Todd Sanders: | Yeah.
| Kris Mayes: | China Jade. I was a busser and a waitress at the China Jade in Prescott.
| Todd Sanders: | What'd you learn?
| Kris Mayes: | Well, it was an awesome job up. I love that job. I learned how to work hard, and I learned about working with people, and I learned I actually love Chinese food.
| Todd Sanders: | Chinese food's good.
| Kris Mayes: | It's awesome.
| Todd Sanders: | I agree.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes.
| Todd Sanders: | I always think service jobs are so important. It gives you an appreciation for the people who do it, and little patience and...
| Kris Mayes: | And how hard at work it is.
| Todd Sanders: | Yes, it's hard work.
| Kris Mayes: | Really hard work. And I also learned an appreciation for small business owners and the people who owned that.
| Todd Sanders: | Signed the front of a paycheck. It's a tough deal.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes.
| Todd Sanders: | Okay, so here's the next one. I'm interested in this one. Who's going to play you in the Kris Mayes movie?
| Kris Mayes: | Oh my gosh. Oh, Todd. Who's going to play me?
| Todd Sanders: | I have an idea, but I want to hear what you think.
| Kris Mayes: | I want to hear your idea.
| Todd Sanders: | Jodie Foster I think would be...
| Kris Mayes: | Oh yeah, good idea.
| Todd Sanders: | No, but come on. You got to have one yourself.
| Kris Mayes: | This shows you how many movies I watch. I don't know. I'll go with Jodie Foster. Sounds good.
| Todd Sanders: | It's kind of good.
| Kris Mayes: | Come back to me on this one. I'll think of something.
| Todd Sanders: | So I mentioned, how do you sleep at night? I guess I can't go to sleep without reading. What are you reading right now? What book are you reading?
| Kris Mayes: | So I have been reading a couple of different books. I'm reading the Walter Isaacson, a couple different books by Walter Isaacson, his biographies recently. And then I've been reading, oh gosh, I'm spacing on it now, but there's a book called Partly Cloudy Patriot by Sarah Vowell, who is one of my favorite authors. So I've been actually rereading-
| Todd Sanders: | Excellent. [inaudible 00:42:41]. A few books at once, huh?
| Kris Mayes: | Yeah, rereading. I do. I have a tendency to skip around. And then I've been also reading Sheldon Whitehouse's books. He's a United States Senator from Rhode Island, and he's wrote a book called Captured, about the influence of dark money in politics.
| Todd Sanders: | Fascinating. I'm reading the Isaacson biography on French Franklin now, which is fascinating. What a maverick. He was a fascinating character of his time.
| Kris Mayes: | Yes. Absolutely.
| Todd Sanders: | But I'm looking forward to the Musk one as well.
| Kris Mayes: | Oh yeah, me, too.
| Todd Sanders: | Well, thank you again. Really appreciate it. Love to have you back maybe next year after you have another year under your belt. And we'll talk to you soon.
| Kris Mayes: | Thank you, Todd. Thanks for having me.